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Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

Post-Game Thread: Bobcats at Kings

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missed entire game....

3rd qtr? yikes. what the hell happened there?

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Jan 30, 2010 9:46 PM PST reply actions  

Bad Offense. Lots & Lots & Lots & Lots of it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Well yes.

But whose arguing that?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

A bad team being.....well.....bad.

Shocking.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Westphal is superstitious

As soon as we hit 13 points we started giving the ball to Brockman and Udoka.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

So is that why he likes Tyreke?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmmm

I think we may be onta somethin’…

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you play with Ouija boards a lot?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Only when the Kings are playing

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Consistency thy name thelettere.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Would have been interesting if PW had brought Sergio in the 3rd

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 9:52 PM PST reply actions  

Yes it would have.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

not bashing at all nbn

but if sergio was always this productive he’d be the best pg in the league. there have been games this year in which sergio was not only ineffective, but a liability. however, he definitely deserves an earlier look that’s for sure

by thisismellow on Jan 30, 2010 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Your right.

but ball movement and spacing went out the window in the 3rd. Sergio seems to help in this area if he doesn’t become too turnover prone.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

good point

unfortunately for sergio, it’s often at the other end that he struggles. tonight while he was changing the game on offense, felton scored 4 (i think) important points on sergio simply due to his extra strength

by thisismellow on Jan 30, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

He made a lot of good passes, even though a number didn't result in scoring

He helped to create a lot of plays for the other players.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions  

No slam on PW for his substitutions,

but Sergio has had this effect several times this year and should get more play time when things aren’t working.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

he can be ridiculous with his decision-making occasionally.

But at the same time he seems to ignite something when he comes on the floor. He brings a fresh and different take on the game than Tyreke and Beno – and his quickness and energy are what we seem to need when our offense slumps.

Bottom line: Put him in the game when we begin in slag – but if he starts acting stupid, yank him.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

He's also only 23 years old

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 31, 2010 5:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Adjusted for 48 min. Sergio is 7th in the entire NBA in assists.

And his turnorver adjusted for 48 min is less than Steve Nash, and only slightly worse the Deron William, Dwyane Wade, and Tony Parker.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Great stats...

7th in the NBA for assists (adj for minutes) – Not that surprising
TOs (adj for minutes) less than Steve Nash – Now that is very surprising!

These stats just support what many of have been seeing.

Thanks.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 31, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

if only he could put the little orange thing

into the hoop thing, he’d actually be good.

As it is, he’s a novelty that deserves plenty of time going down the stretch this season so we can feel good about not picking up his option.

Or

There’s a small chance he’ll make some progress, as they say, he is only 23.

Free Omri...trade.Noc.

by ForThree on Jan 31, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder if I'm only the person who was mad when Sergio passed it to Jt on the break in the late 4th and JT got stuffed

Sergio doesn’t always understand time & place. It find it impossible to completely quantify, but to my eye he probably doesn’t see the game the way someone with his vision should. Sergio, even though he pushes the pace and moves the ball, does not always move the ball in the most effective fashion.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

That was a quick bang bang play, and Wallace came a long way to stop it.

I also think JT has to take a little blame for not finishing.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

He doesn't make the professional play

he makes the spectacular one. And he always has to be the one to make the play, he doesn’t make the pass that leads to a pass and shot very often.

A lot of that could be inexperience; I don’t even like the guy that much and I think he needs a long look over the remainder of the year.

Free Omri...trade.Noc.

by ForThree on Jan 31, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

He doesn’t make the professional play; he makes the spectacular play instead.

Well said 4-3.

I don’t see how giving a look to Sergio makes this team better. He doesn’t play defense, he moves the ball when he has an opportunity to make himself look good, and what not. Needless to say, I’m one of those who doesn’t think Sergio Rodriguez is worth enough to even give an extended look. If this was last season, I would agree. But not with Tyreke Evans, Kevin Martin, Beno Udrih (and eventually Francisco Garcia) already around. It makes little sense to hope for something in the interim, and ignore your better players in the backcourt because the fans are restless about losing in the meantime.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Kings Top Five Player Combinations - nba.com/statistics/plusminus

Top Five-Player Combinations
Player 1 Player 2 Player 3 Player 4 Player 5 Team
1. S. Rodriguez J. Thompson D. Greene T. Evans Brockman

2. B. Udrih A. Nocioni S. Rodriguez J. Thompson Casspi

3. B. Udrih D. Greene T. Evans O. Casspi J. Brockman

4.B. Udrih A. Nocioni S. Rodriguez S. Hawes O. Casspi

5. S. Rodriguez J. Thompson T. Evans O. Casspi J. Brockman

Sergio is in 4 of the top 5 player combinations for the season. While I do not know exactly which games each of these combinations were played, it is notable that Sergio’s name comes up in the top combinations, especially since he has not played that many minutes this season.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 1, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Sergio has not gotten enough burn to say who's "better"

More often than not I agree with ya Pookey, but your fatal flaw is your tendency to make lightning-quick judgments based on limited data sets. My argument for Sergio is quite simple.

We suck. We suck. We suck.

Give the kid a shot. Give the kid a shot. Give the kid a shot.

(And we certainly don’t have to bench Tyreke and Martin for the entire game in order for this to happen. Nuance, people; that’s what we need more of.)

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Feb 1, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed

if we can consistently find sergio at least 18 to 20 minutes i think we would have a better understanding of how to value him. I am still not convinced that Beno is much better.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 1, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither Did Steve Nash

at 23 years old.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 1, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Sergio is 4th on the Kings in 3pt shooting at 56.8% thru 41 games.

And he finished at the rim, on 53.8% of his shoots which is better than Kevin and Noc.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

The vast majority of the time he's played

is against relaxed scrubs holding on to a big lead. Its a recipe for looking good.

I’m all for giving Sergio his chance, 20 minutes a night for 20 games against frontline players. I’m reasonably sure about halfway through we’ll all be tearing our hair out, but this season is for learning about those things. I’d love to be wrong.

Free Omri...trade.Noc.

by ForThree on Jan 31, 2010 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

All the best PG's are on the high turnover list

is making a turnover trying to get an easy basket, any worse the one of the other players throwing up a brick, and making a lazy pass that gets picked off?

If the Kings ran any kind of efficient offensive sets, I think we could live without Sergio. But, our offense is one dimentional, perdictable, and easily defended. Sergio is the best ballhandler, sees the court well, and is a pretty good passer. With 20 min per game, I think he’d be in tune to the other players on the court and be even better.

He’s actually the exact kind of player that half of the people on this site wanted and thought the Kings needed when they were on the Rubio bandwagon. Just because we have Tyreke now, doesn’t mean that we couldn’t use a backup like Sergio who makes playes for other guys. That’s what a 2nd string needs.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

his ast/to

isn’t even tops on the team, and is by far the lowest of everyone above him on that list. Nash and Williams average half and assist per turnover more than him, and all four that you named are much greater scoring threats. I like Sergio occasionally just for a change of pace, but he needs to be on a very short leash.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 31, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok he's 2nd to Beno

Beno 2.35 in 30mpg
Sergio 2.25 in 13mpg
Tyreke 1.77 in 37mpg
Martin 1.07 in 36mpg

So, he’s one tenth of a percentage point behind Beno, who gets 2 and a half times more PT to get accustomed to playing with the starters. But, you know I think I’d rather have Sergio throw the ball away trying to make a fantastic pass on a break away, then have Beno get the ball stolen trying to make a ten foot pass to someone standing on the side of the court.

As to the other players on the list. If you can find a way for one of them to play for the Kings, I’ll be more than happy to see them play PG. But, since Sergio is the only one on the KIngs, I’ll limit the discussion to between Beno & Sergio.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree, high Tops...

and just like big men take time to develop, so do point guards…how many teams did steve nash travel thru before becoming an All-Star & winding up with the Suns?Sergio is only 23.

by Rhondda the musician on Jan 31, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

a to is a to is a to

whether it’s Sergio was trying for the fancy play instead of the smart play or Beno lobbed a 10 ft pass. I’d really rather just see fewer turnovers period.

And as far as regular playing time, I would much rather see Beno than Sergio. Like I said, I’d like to see Sergio in games for a change of pace but he does need a short leash.

math pedant
Sergio isn’t “one tenth of a percentage point behind Beno”, he’s ~4.5% worse (or Beno is ~4.3% better)
/math pedant

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Feb 1, 2010 2:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Have it your way

but 4.5% of a 2.35 to 1 ratio is 0.1, but it looks better for you so keep thinking that way be my guest.

PG’s are going to make turnovers they have the ball in their hands more than any other player. And if you can’t see a difference between a turnover on an aggressive play, and one on a lazy ill conceive pass, well it’s not worth arguing the point with you.

Beno’s only real value is in his shooting percentage, but while Martin is on the team Beno’s minutes will be limited.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 1, 2010 3:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Good night for JT. I was really begining to worry about him.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 9:55 PM PST reply actions  

At the game I was dissapointed in his performance.

It looked better in the box score. He missed some point-blank gimme shots and two free throws in the end of the game.

by mayfieldcol on Jan 30, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

The stats don't always tell the tale.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions  

And JT got swatted by Wallace at a critical point in the game.

You could say that Wallace made a good play, but JT’s gotta’ get that bucket, a foul, or dish it…ie- make a play. I love JT, but his mental discipline needs to get better, and I assume(hope) it will with time.

by amonk81 on Jan 30, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree

JT looked completely lost… His numbers are more of a reflection of his minutes than anything.

by OrangeLazarus on Jan 31, 2010 12:14 AM PST up reply actions  

meh

2 rebounds in 10 minutes, 1 missed shot. no influence whatsoever

by thisismellow on Jan 30, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Slump

Brock has been in a slump lately. Not getting the boards. JT and Hawes have been outrebounding him lately

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I love The Brock

but he’s been off lately – both in rebounding and defense.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm almost resigned

to seeing him getting traded by the deadline. He doesn’t seem to be in the team’s plans.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Beno's Going

With Beno’s big contract Petrie sells him because his stats will never be better then now. He had extra shots while KMart was out, so his PPG is high and his FG and 3pt percentages are also outstanding, but declining. If you take out the Warriors game where he killed it, he’s starting to look like the Beno of last year theses last 10 to 15 games. Theres no doubt that he’s a better scorer then Sergio, but I like the fact that Sergio has the ability to make others better, and plays a style that gets everyone involved. It’s Infectious! …… He’s also slightly better then Beno at Defense.Slightly

by elSAVinator on Jan 30, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't however, like Segio over the long term more than Beno.

The Kings still would need to eventually find another backup PG. Hopefully one cheaper than Beno, and more of a true PG.

by amonk81 on Jan 30, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Sergio is more of a true point guard; in the truest Spanish tradition.

Not saying he’s gonna be a Calderon; but I don’t think we’ve seen his full game yet with the kinda minutes he’s generally been getting.

by Rhondda the musician on Jan 31, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

only problem

PGs are not selling at a premium right now. Seems like alot of teams around the league have young PGs they are working with and want to see if they will pan out. Heck look at the deal sessions got this offseason and the Bucks said they would not match.

For me, this will be the most interesting part of the trade deadline. Really curious what happens with our PG situation.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Jan 30, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

If you could package Noc and Beno for an expiring contract, I would do it in a heartbeat!

by elSAVinator on Jan 30, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions  

For $13 mill of the books

We could probably find a decent backup PG and C

by elSAVinator on Jan 30, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe a three way between Cavs bulls and kings. We get Big Z and Salmons, Cavs get Beno and J.James and Bulls get Noc, HA and May. It works money wise, we dump 2 big contracts, Bulls get rid of 1 and get Noc, Cavs get backup to Mo and exp

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jan 31, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah i dunno who would buy that

That’s a whole lot of cash for some average white foreign guys. Don’t get me wrong, i agree with you, i would personally pull it if i had Petrie’s job but i don’t know who would want them.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Jan 30, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

You would have to unload them separately. It would still be the same in the end though. Playoff teams looking to win now most likely.

by elSAVinator on Jan 30, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

i wouldn't be suprised if we are shopping both sergio and beno at the same time

Sergio with K9 for a big and Beno with whatever will get his salary off the books.

I must admit, i am totally conflicted with Beno. On one hand never been the biggest fan of his D but at the same time i really doubt sergio is going to be the savior here (although i would like to see him get some run).

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Jan 30, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions  

If the game was over after the 3rd Quarter

That would be like a hockey game, and just a bad loss. But with that 4th quarter, goes to show the team doesn’t quit even in garbage time.

Follow on Twitter - @MAD_Marvin

by Hit4TheCycle on Jan 30, 2010 9:57 PM PST reply actions  

Sergio

Should be the second PG off the bench. Beno should be third. Beno should come in for Martin.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:02 PM PST reply actions  

I was waiting for this.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

me too

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

He creates a different pace. Udrih is a good player just not different enough. Sergio ups the tempo and creates energy. Yes, he makes mistakes but he also does many good things out there.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope there's a 10 game stretch where we can see your theory put into action.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I would love it

Tonight:
Udrih – 17 minutes, 5 points, 1 assist, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 turnover
Sergio- 14 minutes, 9 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 turnover

Sergio is a better fit for this Kings team AT THE POINT GUARD POSITION. Beno is fine at the SG.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Also

Beno’s +/- is -14, Sergio’s is +14

Not that I take too much stock in +/-, but in spurts, that is what Sergio can do. Especially with the starting back court out.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Good reason for PW to use him more often.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I only take stock in adjusted +/- in large batches.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

So you're telling me that the Kings need to have a PG more often in the game huh?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

This Team

This Kings team is not a 1-on-1 team. They play much better when the assists are high. It’s because most of the players do better shooting facing the basket. When you have a PG that can penetrate and create open shots for the other players, THIS TEAM will benefit from it. Tyreke is a very good point guard. He can do some of what Sergio can but the other teams don’t play hiim to shoot so you see PW posting Evans up instead to get him near the paint. If the defense played Evans the way they play Sergio, then Evans would have 40 points and 10 assists every night. Problem is that Tyreke has no outside game right now.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

No question.

I’m not saying your solutions are illogical. That’s the problem here. It’s very logical. But here is where you & I disagree with Sergio on where he’s effective: To me it’s novelty.

I think that’s the difference. Or, at least I’m hoping it is.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Either way

I hope we get to see. Thing is, Sergio was playing minutes earlier in the first couple months when the Kings were winning. I don’t understand why he isn’t playing now.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

And when he was the +/- ratings were high

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Were the Kings winning because of Sergio?

Or because the competition wasn’t as tought?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

tough^

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Well,the competition wasn't as tough.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

There ya go.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Close Games

How many close games that went to the final buzzer against the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs and Mavs?

No Pookey, the Kings weren’t winning just because of Sergio.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions  

No doubt.

Have a good night.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Beno...

NaPG

Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."

by Ellimist on Jan 30, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd like to see this experimented with

It can’t hurt.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This team plays so much better when the tempo is fast.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:03 PM PST reply actions  

true,

but you can’t be a consistent up-tempo team unless you can hit those d-boards…

Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."

by Ellimist on Jan 30, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

When are we going to trade Martin?

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:04 PM PST reply actions  

You are joking, I hope!

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Tomorrow.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank God

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I could do it in the next 10 minutes if that would make you happy.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Who would you trade him for?

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Your Mom!

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Expirings.

Martin is too soft.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

We are being sarcastic

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

So am I

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Figured that

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

In that case,

I want Arenas

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Gunplay is so sexy.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Sacramento needs sexiness

Beyond the occasional sideline cleavage shots…

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

Because cows aren’t as sexy as often or ever.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Cows are just unprocessed steaks

And steaks are nothing if not sexy.

Sigh… Sac-town needs a new PR agent.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

You can do it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Might have to wait for awhile for him.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

We have all the time in the world

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I like a quick trigger on my guards

Arenas just stares his man in the face rather than taking the shot.

by nobodyinparticular on Jan 30, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

TWSS

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 30, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I was expecting 5.

You need to train more.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

When is you Hawes piece going up?

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

^your

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm hoping tomorrow.

When I have a fresh mind. I’ve been completely “bleh” all day today. I tried working on it today at different times, but it just never seemed to flow. So I scrapped it in the hopes of being able to finish it off tomorrow. I’m about halfway or so done with it now. Sorry BJ.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

was just there

no Hawes, no game recap for this game. WTF? I have expectations!

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Quick Cap for this game

Kings move ball in 1st qtr and take 7 pt lead. Stop doing that for the rest of the half, and end up down 2. They don’t do anything right in the 3rd and are down by 26 at one point. Then, Sergio Rodriguez comes in and makes the game a non crunchtime affair by doing what he does.

Maybe there is something to expectations…

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

your recap has a strong resemblance to the game I watched

’nuff said for tonight

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said.

I do suck.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Hawes piece

Sounds like a bad toupe.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 30, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

lol

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Or if Larry Brown wasn't a sycpophant

Or if Gerald Wallace didn’t shoot out of his mind. Or if Grant Napear’s nickname wasn’t Peaches….

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I think I'm going againts the tide here...but...

I wouldn’t be surprised if Sergio isn’t here next year…
I’m trying to go over those last two minutes..and…
a reserve PG in that situation going to the rim…doesn’t make free throws or threes,
doesn’t kick it out to someone open for three…it’s like a bad Tyreke impersonation..
bottom line….I don’t want to see the Kings pay more than 2 mil on this guy in the future.

by getPGwithbounce on Jan 30, 2010 10:35 PM PST reply actions  

the Kings didn't pay him anything to be here

when they have to spend Maloof money and well…………….when they have to spend their own money on Sergio…..well……….they won’t!

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 30, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd give him 2.5

But not a penny more.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jan 30, 2010 10:39 PM PST reply actions  

Something I have noticed is

all the missed assists Reke hasn’t gotten over the last several weeks because the shooting has been so bad.

How good would Nash be on the Kings?

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

by nothingbutnet on Jan 30, 2010 10:43 PM PST reply actions  

with his lack of D

he should fit right in

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Jan 30, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

He certainly wouldn't be getting as many assists.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 31, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

How about this?

Starting lineup:
PG-Evans
SG-Martin
SF-Greene
PF-Thompson
C-Hawes

Second Unit:
PG-Sergio
SG-Udrih
SF-Casspi
PF-Nocioni
C-Hawes/JT or Brockman depending on the opponent.

First unit would be the team we are used to and the second unit would be an energy unit that can run the floor and shoot. Defense isn’t quite as important when playing against the opponent’s bench.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 30, 2010 10:45 PM PST reply actions  

50 - 50

That sounds about right. I’ll take Greene by a tail.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 31, 2010 3:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Just got back

Got some random thoughts in mind so I’ll probably make a fanpost about the game.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 30, 2010 10:45 PM PST reply actions  

Didn't get to see the game cause of work again

Just looking at the boxscore, looks like another 3rd Quarter Collapse, JT finally came back to life, Spencer went back to bad Spencer (what is up with neither of them having good games at the same time?), Sergio outplayed Beno, Omri came back to life, and Tyreke was not active on the offensive end at all. 7 assists is nice, but only 4 points? More importantly, only 5 shots? WTF? He didn’t get injured did he?

Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jan 30, 2010 11:21 PM PST reply actions  

Reading the Yahoo recap

Looks like Tyreke bruised his hip. What happened?

Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jan 30, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

My understanding

is that he hurt it in a fall in Utah, and it tightened up on him tonight.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 30, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what I'm gathering from reading recaps.

Perhaps he should have sat out and we would have gotten more Sergio earlier. I think we would have won if we had Tyreke at 100%. Kevin was pretty much the only offensive weapon for most of the game it looks like. Glad he’s back though.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jan 30, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I just got back

First quarter was really clicking and then the game just slowed down in the second. Offense just stopped moving. Third quarter was like watching the Kings playing like they were in quicksand and the other team walked on water. Lethargic is the word I would describe. Then the fourth with Sergio in immediately picked up the pace and changed the whole game. Best basketball I have seen the Kings play in too long. Martin was great as well with breakouts and such. Entirely different ball game.

by MustangMBS on Jan 30, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

As said earlier by others

JT’s line is deceptive… From the stands he looked like the same lost, over matched guy he has been most of the season. Missed two critical free throws down the stretch and was swatted away at another critical point during the tail end of the comeback. I don’t know if JT could even get off the bench on a playoff team with the way he is playing. He is really painful to watch these past few games.

by OrangeLazarus on Jan 31, 2010 12:20 AM PST up reply actions  

The boxscore was not right though

I forget when, but JT turned goalie there for a while and was smacking balls away from the rim big time. The box score I read only gave him one block which isn’t even close to right. He was improved, but I have to agree looked lost at other times.

by MustangMBS on Jan 31, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

.
JT turned goalie there for a while and was smacking balls away from the rim

Yeah, on offense.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jan 31, 2010 12:58 AM PST up reply actions  

And this was a good night for him...getting a double double

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 31, 2010 3:37 AM PST up reply actions  

From the stands he looked like the same lost, over matched guy he has been most of the season.

What the hell team have you been watching? If by “most of the season” you mean January, then I guess. But how quickly you’ve forgotten Nov-Dec.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 31, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a good point

For the first portion of the season, JT looked like a solid candidate for the rookie-soph game. Whether the NBA scouts have seen something and made adjustments, or whether it is a prolonged slump, something has changed – it’s not like Thompson has played this way for the past year and a half.

It’s the TV – gives all the kids short term memories.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 31, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

What did you say?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to take away from the importance of the 3rd quarter, but

in our first game against Charlotte, the Kings out scored them from the field by 6, but got out scored at the FT line by 8 for a 2 pt loss.

And again this game, the Kings outscored the Cats by 5 from the field, but got out scored at the FT line by 12 for an 7pt loss. Not that a put too much importance in the numbers, but I do think that the Kings foul too much, went the defense breaks down.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 12:41 AM PST reply actions  

How I would fix the lineup "parenthetically" Why I am not coaching

I would start the following:
PG: Tyreke Evans
SG: Omri Casspi
SF: Doratio Kane
PF: Jason Thompson
C: Someone other than Hawes. Armstrong at the moment, by default I suppose.

At this point, unless Martin’s game last night was the breakout game he desperately needed, he would be better for this team coming off the bench. An explosive scorer against front line players, would be that much more effective coming off the bench and playing against second-banana types. I think he would be a perennial shoo-in to be in the top 5 for 6th man every year. Also, you can shift the talents around him to cover up his lack of defense and rebounding.

Hawes to me is really beginning to look like a failed experiment. He appears (to me of course) to have absolutely no heart. No desire to compete. Nazr mohammed???? He looked like a frigging All-Star last night. 17-10 and 2 blocks. Hawes has 4-4 and 3 blocks, but has 3 shots blocked. Maybe he’s a bench player, but to me, he has absolutely no heart.

Thompson is unfairly getting reputation bad calls made against him. he makes borderline fouls, that 75% of the league gets away with and is called for them. a promising career is on the verge of a serious blindsiding if this doesn’t change. If he is unable to stay on the court, he will never live up to his potential.

The biggest issue I see is Hawes. I can’t believe how much he doesn’t seem to care about getting better on the court. I can’t say how he is in practice, because I am not there, but he doesn’t seem to be getting better. He plays soft, tentative, and afraid (to these eyes). At least JT seems to be trying.

I have to cut this short, as work is over soon, but I welcome any response.

Mitch Richmond - All-Time leader in shots taken with a toe on the three point line. True Story...You can look it up.

by nolookpass432 on Jan 31, 2010 6:32 PM PST reply actions  

I'm sorry but I disagree with pretty much everything you just said

The reasons have been discussed ad naseum so I won’t even get into that. You have the right to your opinion.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 31, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Boy love for JT, I guess. Everyone of his fouls are deserved, because he fouls too often

and therefore has built himself a reputation. As far as his defense, excluding the foul situation, he’s still the worse big when it comes to defense. Man to man, help, team, you name it, he’s bad.

No way Thompson defends Nazr any better than Hawes, and JT has no interior game other than offensive put backs. The only reason to pull Spencer and replace him with JT, is if 2 years from now you thought JT might be a center and you wanted to get him all the experience you can until then. If JT was that great, why would PW be putting Brockman at center instead of at PF where he’s not as badly undersized.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

bench your best scorer...?

I should probably take the road less traveled like Ed… but this begs a response. The below is not a good idea in any way. He has scored very well the last couple of games. If he was still struggling and coming off of injury for the first few games I would agree, but as has been said. That ship has already sailed.

At this point, unless Martin’s game last night was the breakout game he desperately needed, he would be better for this team coming off the bench. An explosive scorer against front line players, would be that much more effective coming off the bench and playing against second-banana types. I think he would be a perennial shoo-in to be in the top 5 for 6th man every year. Also, you can shift the talents around him to cover up his lack of defense and rebounding.

by MustangMBS on Jan 31, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

What I am saying is, right now, this team isn’t fighting for a playoff spot. Or anything other than besting last years record. Why not tinker with lineups a little more? Try Kevin off the bench, try JT at center, where I think he may end up eventually anyway. I have no boy love for JT, just think he plays harder than Hawes. JT does foul too much, no question. It just seems that he gets a lot of touch fouls that the majority of the league doesn’t.

I think Hawes will eventually figure it out, just not as a starter. And to these eyes, he doesn’t appear to want to compete, spends too much time complaining to the officials, and way to much time drifting at the 3 point line. Might be a case of just really not liking his game at this stage. Hard to say.

Mitch Richmond - All-Time leader in shots taken with a toe on the three point line. True Story...You can look it up.

by nolookpass432 on Feb 1, 2010 6:16 AM PST up reply actions  

As I said, just my opinion

I obviously agree with what I said, or I wouldn’t have said it. I haven’t been able to read up much lately, so i can’t comment on those.

I stand by it all, especially Hawes, he looks way more lost than JT, to this fan’s eyes. And Martin would KILL second team players.

Having said that, I appreciate the fact that you responded, I haven’t had any kings talk of note for a while now.

Mitch Richmond - All-Time leader in shots taken with a toe on the three point line. True Story...You can look it up.

by nolookpass432 on Jan 31, 2010 7:02 PM PST reply actions  

Apologies for not really getting into a good discussion

but especially in the last couple games, you’re statements have proven to be a bit innacurate.

Quick recap: Our offense still sucks and Kevin is needed. He’s back to being his old self in the last couple games. His rebounding numbers look good and he has been more active on defense (you would know from the games he has played this season). He’ll never be a great defender, maybe even good, but what he brings to this team is soely needed on the other end. We just need to get better defensive players at other positions to complement him.

Spencer is still incosistent. It’s not his heart or him not trying to get better. He’s just young and inconsistent. He’s a special guy in many ways but at 21 we’re still preaching for patience. Same wih JT.

And please use the reply button to keep the conversations organized. Thanks

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 31, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

no no no no

I don’t care how lost Hawes looks, I don’t care if he seems like a gutless prick in the newspaper, and I don’t care that we all have designated JT to the “All NBA Heart Team.” Fact is Thompson has deserved a vast majority of his fouls and is just as bad of a defender, if not worse, than Hawes. I hate the Hawes quotes about working on what he is good at and acting like he has already been a success, but the fact is that he should be our starting center right because we have no better options. None, ziltch, nada. Brockman is not a center. Thompson is not a center. Armstrong is not an NBA player.

By the way, in regards to this team’s defense, why do we only talk about Thompson and Hawes? Can someone please explain to me how replacing one of them in our starting lineup with a “true defensive big” (can we refer to Hawes and Thompson as NaTDB?) is going to improve this team even though opposing guards are flying into the paint every single possession?

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 1, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Since we're into fixing lineups, here's mine.

NaPG: Tyreke Evans
SaSG (Still an SG): Kevin Martin
HBSF (Hella Big SF): Donte Greene
PPF (Pugnacious PF): Jon Brockman
NaC: Jason Thompson.

Reke is great at driving and finishing at the rim. KMart is great at driving and finishing at the rim, as well as getting fouls and shooting the three. Donte Greene is a long and athletic SF who is playing well defensively and can hit the 3 as well as drive to the rim. Brockman takes care of rebounding and brutalizing the other team’s star big man. JT rebounds well and is constantly improving his post offense.

With that starting 5, we get 2 great scorers (KMart and Reke), 3 good rebounders (Reke, JT, Brockman). 2 valid 3 point threats (Donte, KMart), 2 good defenders (Reke, Donte), 2 solid defenders (Brockman, JT) and 2 clutch players (Reke, Kmart).

We also get a plethora of reserves who can fill in one specialty after the other (Casspi/Noce/Udoka for def and 3pointers, Hawes for inside points, blocks and 3pointers, Beno for midrange J’s and 3pointers, K9/Armstrong/May for inside presence.)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 31, 2010 9:28 PM PST reply actions  

Jason Thompson NaC

now, I’m not saying that Spencer is a center, because his true position just might be at PF, some day. But, for right now, he’s as close to having center skills as anyone on the team.

I will have to go with PW on this one. If Jason was a better center than Spencer, than why play Jon, an undersized PF at center instead of Jason. Everyone is pointing to the early success of this team and saying that the problem is consistency. But, the lack of consistency is from players being put in a position that they’re not suited for, and while they might be able to produce for a time, it’s not going to happen forever.

Coming off the bench and playing limited minutes, mostly against the other teams reserves, is different than starting. I don’t think JT will score any more as a center than as a PF. In fact I think he will score less. Bockman doesn’t have the outside shot to play PF, and he will score less. So, right away your frontcourt is going to score 10 less points a game. And, JT isn’t a good enough defender to make up the 10pts.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 31, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe so but I've always believed in basketball roles.

Which means I don’t agree with putting 5 scorers on the court and assuming they’ll win because of superior firepower (despite all the Suns’ success, who only had one guy before, Marion, playing D).

Sure, maybe the starting frontcourt may score 10points less but the frontcourt as a whole should score the same amount of points, given the same PT (your contention is Hawes becomes a sub and plays limited minutes against subs, rendering him less effective). I mean, if Hawes the starter scores 15pts in 25mins, shouldn’t Hawes the sub score around 15pts in those same 25mins? Maybe even more, considering he’s going up against subs.

I don’t think Manu Ginobili and Ben Gordon scored less points because they were 6th men. In fact, they may have been more efficient because of that.

The way I see it, we should have 2 great scorers, at least 1 inside threat who is also a rebounder, a good rebounder/defender and a 3 point shooter every time out. KMart and Reke are your scorers, Greene is the 3point man, Brockman is your rebound/inside defender guy and JT is your inside threat and rebounder. When Hawes comes in, he either takes the place of JT as the inside threat or of Brockman as rebounder.

I think Hawes can also be better utilized when the offense can go through him. Like when Beno/Sergio comes in for Reke/Martin. Sergio is always looking to pass so Hawes can get his touches (as opposed to waiting for drop passes from Reke or Martin) and Beno likes working from midrange, so Hawes and JT have the shaded area to themselves.

Our bench now comes out as this.
Beno – good scorer
Omri – good scorer/rebounder
Udoka – defenseman/3point shooter/rebounder
Noce – defenseman/3point shooter/rebounder
Hawes – inside threat & rebounder
Armstrong – rebounder
May – inside threat/ rebounder
K9- rebounder/defender
Sergio – PG!

The lineup becomes a bit irregular, because we have more guys who can fulfill more roles but at a less efficient rate (none of them are as good rebounders as Brock or JT or as good scorers as Reke or KMart) but of course, we don’t field them all at the same time.

Omri/Udoka/Noce for Donte’s role, Beno for Reke/KMart, K9/Armstrong/May for Brock, Sergio as facilitator will make KMart/JT the main scorers with Hawes the inside threat.

Basically, I espouse to the idea that most championship-caliber teams don’t have 5 scorers as their starting 5. Jordan/Pippen/Harper/Rodman/Longley had 2 guys for rebounds and defense, Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Perkins had Rondo to run the offense and Perkins for D and rebounding, Kobe/Fisher/Ariza/Gasol/Bynum had Ariza as the defensive stopper and Bynum for rebounding…

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Feb 1, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

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