The Case for Jon Brockman ... As a Starter
by Tom Ziller on Jan 7, 2010 12:23 PM PST
in Commentary
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PrintIt shouldn't take much convincing to make the point that Jon Brockman deserves minutes for the Kings. He's been an incredible sparkplug at just the right times for Sacramento, becoming an instant cult favorite because of his ogrely insistance to pummel the snot out of everything with a pulse. Part of his appeal is the decade-long lack of brutes in Royal Purple. But a larger part of his appeal is that he has really, really helped the Kings when he's gotten onto the court.
But he's still only getting 11 minutes a night. The argument has been made, especially in the wake of the rotational decisions of Tuesday's night second half against Phoenix, that Brockman can be an effective defensive-minded counterweight to Spencer Hawes, the gifted offensive/light rebounding incumbent. But actually, adding Brockman to the starting line-up in place of Hawes might better boost the team's offense. And for that reason, along with the potential defensive aid in the form of better rebounding, I'd endorse a few starts for Brockman.
The one measurable skill in which Brockman has clearly excelled this season is offensive rebounding. Currently, he is grabbing 20 percent of all offensive rebound opportunities. That means for every five missed Kings shots (or reboundable missed free throws) while Brockman is on the floor, he's grabbing one of them. Do you want to know why that's nuts? Because the Warriors -- all five of them on the court at once -- rebound 21 percent of opportunities on offense. Brockman essentially does the work of 4-5 men in the category. The best team in this sector -- Memphis -- collects 33 percent of offensive rebound opportunities. Brockman gets 20 percent. Himself.
Offensive rebounding helps your offense. Its a huge reason the Kings are 12th in offense this season -- led by Jason Thompson and Brockman, the Kings are 4th in the league in offensive rebounding. According to previous work by Dean Oliver (now the quant analyst for the Nuggets), offensive rebounding is roughly equal to turnover rate in its effect on per-possession scoring. (Shooting is twice as important, and free throw rate is somewhat less important.) Boosting the team's offensive rebounding even more through increased minutes for Brockman (and reduced minutes for Hawes, who actually is a decent offensive rebounder himself) will help the team's offense.
But surely replacing Hawes the Multi-Talented Phenom with Brockman the Rebounder will hurt in other areas, yes? Not by my logic. Here are the current or potential starters (except Brockman) for the Kings as we enter mid-January, ranked from best-to-worse in True Shooting percentage, which is an all-encompassing shooting measure that can effectively be translated to "points per shooting possession used":
Omri Casspi, .595
Beno Udrih, .586
Kevin Martin, .577
Donte Green, .547
Jason Thompson, .541
Tyreke Evans, .526
Andres Nocioni, .519
Spencer Hawes, .518
Yes, Hawes is last in shooting efficiency among all current or potential starters. He is the least efficient Kings starter on offense. Talented? Yes. Promising? Yes. Producing? No. If you take him out of the starting five and replace his attempts with more by the other four and his replacement (Brockman, .586, in this case), the team will get more efficient, unless the team cannot efficiently absorb the difference between Hawes's shooting frequency and Brockman's (roughly 7 FGAs per 36 minutes).
Interestingly enough, an opposite issue is approaching: Kevin Martin will soon occupy the Donte Greene/Beno Udrih position in the starting five. (This is an assumption, but a fair one, I believe.) Martin, one of basketball's greatest weapons, should take more shots than Greene/Beno have been (13 per 36 minutes). Those shots must come from somewhere?
Surely, the Kings can get on fine keeping Hawes in the starting five while adding Martin. Martin won't force the offense to revolve around him, and the most likely result would be everyone (Martin included) taking a few fewer shots than normal. (I imagine efficiency will go up across the board, since many teams will need to double Martin, or at least send help on his penetration.)
But in an optimal world, the best solution would be to allow Martin and Casspi especially, but also the high-FG% Thompson and the obviously central Evans to maintain normal usage levels while relieving the debt by adding a player who can help in so many ways in place of the least efficient starter. (Also, Brockman is a decent finisher -- 62 percent at the rim and 50 percent from 5-10 feet. He's not a Chuck Hayes level offensive drain.)
It's worth noting that while Brockman has helped the Kings defense -- to the tune of 4 points per 100 possessions to this point -- the team's defensive rebounding is actually worse when he plays than when he sits. I imagine this can be attributed to line-up issues (especially at point guard, where starter Evans versus back-up/Brockman partner Sergio Rodriguez is no content) but it's worth remembering that on the surface it doesn't appear adding Brockman in place of Hawes will fix the team's biggest problem. (I assure you that it can't hurt.)
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Until he shows that he needs to be guarded from 10-15 feet
He cannot start. It will allow X bigman on the other team to play way off him, and seriosuly congest the lane. See the end of the last phoenix game.
Other than that, I’m all for it. Spencer needs to learn to be more agressive, and I think a return to the bench will be good for him, until he can prove he can be agressive even a little bit of the time
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Shooting
Wasn’t somebody recently mentioning that he demonstrated a good mid-range touch during warm-ups? I know warm-ups are different than in a game, and I know he hasn’t taken those shots in games, but I’m just throwing it out there.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
I also saw his range but that's in warm-up.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
That doesn't invalidate Ellimist's point
Until Brockman makes shots away from the basket, the defense are going to play off of him. At this point in time he’s not even willing to attempt them.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
He has to take them to make them.
He almost never gets the ball in a position to shoot from more than 5 feet from the rim. The times I have seen him take an open 10-15 footer he has made them.
Heck, it's been enough of a challenge to get him to shoot two footers
He has a habit of coming down with the rebound and then passing it back out, instead of trying to stick it back.
I love Brockman, but you better have an extraordinarily talented offensive team to fight off the double teams that will occur as a result of him being on the floor.
And 1 – It’s referenced a bit below, but Brockman is averaging 6 fouls per 32 minutes right now. I’m guessing that there would be a lot of games where he is sitting down with 9-10 minutes left in the 1st quarter, after he picks up his 2nd foul. All of that said, I enjoy watching him play, and more playing time for him would be a good thing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yes
All too true about the fouls, but then it is entertaining and amusing. I have watched Brockman very closely and he has some pretty clever tricks in playing, but often gets called on them.
I have seem him back into players and reach down to pull their shorts down a bit, holding onto the bottom hem. Hilarious cause it gets the other player completely ticked and off their game. He does what some would say are dirty tricks and gets called for it, but I just love the other player’s reactions. Watch him next time at a game when he boxes somebody out and what his hands are doing.
I don't doubt your vision or memory, but Jon has only 6 pts way from the paint in 26 games.
that’s not enough to get someone to look at him let alone defend him.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
My point was that he doesn't take the shots
The few, very few I have seen were made for the most part. I am not disagreeing with the comment that he needs to be an outside threat to some degree. I just don’t know that he doesn’t have it in him. He could probably make these shots, but we just don’t know given the few he has attempted…
Yes that is pretty small
Thanks ForThree for the link. Interesting to look at and ponder just what those jump shots were and how they were taken…
no offense
but last year I watched mikki more drill 3 pointers in warm ups a few different times. I’ll leave it at that.
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Mikki More was actually very good shooting uncontested midrange jumpers
Led the league in field goal percentage based on it when Kidd was delivering the open looks.
by unfair weather on Jan 7, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm all for giving Brockman a few starts to see how it works
I like the point made about how Kevin’s going to need extra shots, which he could get with Brockman on the floor in place of Hawes.
Two things I’d like to see Brockman work on: utilizing this supposed jumper during games. If teams have to fear him even a little bit on offense that’s a big plus. I’d also like to see him get stripped a little less when grabbing those offensive rebounds. There were a couple times in the Suns game when he fought for it and ended up getting it stolen away from him. However, this may have been a bigger issue against the Suns, where other Kings players were looking to get back on D so as not to allow a Suns fastbreak.
www.mancancook.net
fouls, fouls, and more fouls
I presume by starting, you mean he should be getting about 30-35 minutes per game instead of the 10-15 he’s been gettting recently. While i don’t have time now to do the research, I doubt that he’d last that many minutes based on his foul-to-minutes played rate. His excessive fouling rate, combined with JT’s would hurt are already bad defense, IMO. As adoitly pointed out in another thread here today, the Kings have a fouling problem (too many given up and too few foul shots made). Brock Johnman makes us worse in both those categories. Plus, I really like the change of pace he brings off the bench and think he helps the whole team shake of the occasional lackadaisacal approach from time-to-time.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 7, 2010 1:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I thought that too, but I'm not too concerned
Even if he starts, I don’t see brock playing more than 30 minutes a game. But history has shown that tough, physical players get away with more, especially when they start. I think the more minutes he plays, the less fouls he commit per minute.
Either way he will foul a lot, but I think he does start, it wouldn’t be as big an issue as it is him playing 15 minutes a game off the bench
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
agree with your last line in particular, ltlftc, and the fouls per minute concern, rec'd
Brockman brings a spark of energy off the bench and a different look to the defense. It would be interesting to see him start a game or two with the appropriate opponent (Denver, Miami?). Houston – Hayes v. Brockman – call the WWE!
On offense I like the AlleyOop game that Sergio and Brockman run. Brockman is getting a lot of attention from the coaching staff publicly and earning more PT. Starting is not an sisue.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 7, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Hayes and Brockman might either draw blood or one players shorts down by his ankles
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
both at the same time would be a bit too "Shawshank" for me
Hayes and Brockman might either draw blood or one players shorts down by his ankles
by betweentheeyes on Jan 7, 2010 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe he could take some of JT's fouls?
It would be good if it could help the team to get off to a better start. It seems like we are always giving up 30+ points in the first quarter and then having to fight our way back into the game.
by markdog333 on Jan 8, 2010 7:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe we should be starting Tyreke, Omri, Udoka, Brockman, and Spencer for Defense right off the bat in games to hold the points down on the opposing team. at least we will have 3 decent scorers on the floor. Udoka and Brockman are kinda interchangeable on who defends the 3/4 spot)
Judgment day is coming!
I agree JB currently fouls too much.
I think starting JB would also require JT to cover the other team’s center more often and increase his foul problems too.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 8, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
The logic and conclussion is undeniable
at least from the offensive side. The Kings are already 7th in scoring and 11th in FG%. The return of Martin may improve those numbers slightly, but it’s guaranteed that his shots are going to have to come from somewhere. And, PW has already shown a preference for Thomas’ and Brockman’s defense over Hawes’ scoring. So, Brockman getting more PT at Hawes’ expense isn’t only justified but already happening.
Here where I differ on the idea of starting Brockman. If you adjust Jon’s foul rate for 36 mpg, and it comes out to 6.87 fouls per game. As a hussle guy he’s just prone to fouling too often. And, although he did well against Phx, in other games like the Lakers game, taller players were just shooting over him. Also, on the offensive end teams are already playing off of him and clogging the lane, as Ellimist already mentioned.
In the 4th quarter of the Phx game, Jon had 2 rebs, 1 to, 4 fouls, 0 pts & 0 assts. Amare had 0 reb, 1 to, 2 fouls, 8 pts, & 0 assts. I have no way of calculating the total positive impact that Brockman had on the game. But, from a purely, statistical view point, even if both of his rebounds lead to baskets, Amare out scored him 8 to 4 in the 4th. And, Jon’s 4 fouls put us in the penalty all by himself, which lead to at least 2 FT that I know weren’t intentional. So, in a 4 pt loss, Brockman & his man created a 6pt advantage for Phx.
This wasn’t done to justify not playing Jon but to show the effects of his foul problem. I believe as a defensive stopper, his skills are best service coming off the bench, and helping stop runs, and helping the reserves increase our lead or get us back if we’re behind.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Correction
in other games like the Lakers game, taller players were just shooting over him.
He played less than five minutes in that game (and was still a +8), but he logged more than 21 in the previous Lakers game and held Gasol in check. Gasol scored seven points during the time Brockman was on the floor in that game, and you might recall we were up by seven in OT when he left that game.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 7, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
Please don't use one games +/- to sell your case, it's just too weak
In the first Lakers game, Brockman played for JT and was on the court with Spencer the entire time. Spencer defended Amare, and Brockman defended Gasol when Gasol was on the court at the same time as Amare.
Brockman entered at 4:23 of the 1st quarter, and Gasol made a hook over the top of him at 2:38. Then Brockman fouled Gasol at 1:43, and Gasol made 2 FT’s. Brockman finished the 1st quarter, but didn’t enter the 2nd quarter until the 3:17 mark. At that time Gasol wasn’t on the court, and he played most of the last 3 minutes until PW made some offensive/defensive line changes at the end of the half.
Now, I can’t read PW’s mind and he wasn’t offering any reasons why Brockman never defended Gasol or Amare after the 1st quarter, but in my mind it was because Gasol shot over him and then attacked him less than 1 minute later, at the end of that quarter. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the way I saw it.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Amare doesn't play for the Lakers
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL its funny because its true!
Judgment day is coming!
by Widowwolf on Jan 8, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for you, your right of course, I meant Bynum.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
With your analogy
Guys like Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier also shouldn’t play, let alone start games. I mean, in that series a few years back where they put Bowen on Steve Nash, I am sure Nash still had better offensive stats than Bowen. Ergo, Bowen shouldn’t have even been playing. Ridiculous, just like stating Brockman has to outscore Amare or Gasol to be effective.
If we just need five guys who can score, lets just rank them by points per minute and let those guys play all 48.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
What analogy are you talking about?
going back to my first post, I starting saying Jon played good defense and shouldn’t start, not that he shouldn’t play. And, my only comment pertaining to the Lakers games, was that I believed that the reason why PW only gave him 6 minutes in the 1st and 5 minutes in the 2nd, what that he wasn’t a go matchup with Gasol, because Gasol was shooting over him.
I really don’t know where your coming from with this analogy about Bowen.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This part
In the 4th quarter of the Phx game, Jon had 2 rebs, 1 to, 4 fouls, 0 pts & 0 assts. Amare had 0 reb, 1 to, 2 fouls, 8 pts, & 0 assts. I have no way of calculating the total positive impact that Brockman had on the game. But, from a purely, statistical view point, even if both of his rebounds lead to baskets, Amare out scored him 8 to 4 in the 4th. And, Jon’s 4 fouls put us in the penalty all by himself, which lead to at least 2 FT that I know weren’t intentional. So, in a 4 pt loss, Brockman & his man created a 6pt advantage for Phx.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
How is that an analogy? It's a statement of fact based on boxscores.
I applause you for standing up for your guy. But, please keep it to the facts, and stop turning other peoples words around to defend you case.
And, if you not willing to listen to amateurs like myself, how about a pro like David Thorpe who had this to say about Brockman and his ability to make mid range jumpers.
I think he’ll stick around if he can make that shot, and I think he can (make) a contribution on a nightly basis whether as a rotation player or someone where you pick and choose your spots remains to be seen. He’s got to be able to knock that shot down.
Please read the story in Amick’s column. You seem to be putting a lot of effort in defending a guy with effort & guile who may be a minor role player on this team. Especially, if the Kings draft or trade for a 3rd big this summer.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
My point
is you compare the 11th man on the Kings to the leading scorer on thr Suns and say if he doesn’t outscore him, he should be on the floor. Which is absurd.
That’s fine, you want to trash the guy and stick up for a guy with more “potential” but way less heart, that’s your call.
Nobody’s saying the guy is a star or a star in the making. He’s just a hardnosed banger on a team that hasn’t had one for a while, and he has a solid role to play on this team.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
So
While
the taller players were just shooting over him (Brockman)
…
… The Kings outscored the Lakers by eight points in a five-point stretch.
Maybe we should let all of our opponents “just shoot over him” if that’s the end result..
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
Also
Amare made a 17-foot jumper with 19 seconds left after Nocioni had replaced Brockman. Also, Amare’s four free throws were made after he was fouled both times by Casspi.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 7, 2010 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
coolcat got it right
amare may have scored 8 to 0 on brockman in the second half but theres no one that hawes or jt did any any better than -8 to amare in the first half. and 4 of the 8 points against brockman did come off of casspi’s unnecessary fouls not brockmans. defense against the suns is about making them work for their points. i know brockman made amare work hard in the second half compared to the first
I dont know the correct answer to this
but did Casspi have to foul Amare because he had already beat Brockman? That would affect an opinion on how good of job of defense he played.
If..
I recall correctly, one particular foul on Casspi, was when Amare was off balance, and losing control of the ball. He came over and tried to put more defense on him, but ended up committing a silly foul. I think…
by illkillyoubitch on Jan 7, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
So much well said in this post and in the comments/rebuttals
I say, hell with it, give it a try and see if he can stay on the floor.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
With
One of the big reasons that Brockness gets so many offensive rebounds is that he is down low as opposed to up high. (A big complaint with Hawes.) Brock doesn’t need to make outside shots we have plenty of those. What he needs to do is stay five feet or so away fro the basket. That way if they double off him, the driver can drop it to him for the layup. he gets to the hoop just fine if he doesn’t have to put the ball on the floor.
As far as fouls, the thing I like about him is that he uses them well. They are not tickey-tac slap fouls like JT. When you get fouled by Brockness, you know it!
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 7, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As far as not being a good shooter
and letting his man collapse in on Tyreke etc.
I’m pretty damn confident Brockness can screen his man out a lot of the time.
Practice it and find out.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
The issue with fouls
1. He currently plays 11 minutes a game. It’s been shown fouls per minute decrease with more minutes. The explanations could vary by player, but it’s solid data, if memory serves. (Note: memory not guaranteed to be solid.)
2. I don’t think I’m calling for 36 minutes a game. 25? Maybe.
3. Since you aren’t looking for him to play 36 minutes a game, two fouls in the first quarter isn’t as big a deal, provided they aren’t dumb fouls and he’s otherwise affecting the game in a positive way.
It might be a good idea just to give him more minutes, without necessarily starting.
I’d prefer to have him in there during the later parts of the game where he doesn’t have to worry about foul trouble too much and can help make a difference when it matters most, like he has been. Starting is just a status symbol. What’s more important is being in the game when your presence matters most
www.mancancook.net
The big question isn't how fast Brockman gets in foul trouble
its how fast JT will when he and Brockman are on the floor together. Though JT’s foul rate has gotten better, he still leads the NBA in fouls committed and this is while Hawes generally plays the more accomplished opposing big.
When JT has to play those guys more often we run serious risk of JT getting in foul trouble faster.
I think there’s a legitimate case playing Brockman more will take close to as many minutes away from JT as Hawes.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
by ForThree on Jan 7, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe bump the PT up to 20 minutes
Play him like 4-5 in the first half and another 3 or 4 in the third quarter to keep him warmed up. Then play him the whole 4th quarter and let him beat guys up. He probably won’t get too many fouls in those early stints so that way he can just be an enforcer for the entire 4th quarter, when we need the most help.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jan 7, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We really want to play a complete offensive non-factor
right when NBA teams actually play defense (the 4th quarter)?
I don’t know, maybe we’ll get a chance to see it, but I’m pretty skeptical.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Some of his most effective moments have come in crunch time
We’re getting enough offense from Reke, Omri, Donte, JT, and Beno but we’re getting fairly inconsistent offense from Spencer. Why not throw in a guy whose going to grab 1 out 5 of missed Kings’ shots, giving them another chance to score?
www.mancancook.net
1st and 4th quarter
to set the tone, then play D at the end.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Let them know early what he's about
which would make them say ‘Uh-Oh’ when he comes in later.
Lots of jumpshots.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Who would you rather get going early...
Spencer or Jon?
I think the answer is Spencer. Spencer is the more mentally fragile and needs more encouragement. Brockman should get the bulk of his minutes in the 2nd and 4th. But if you get Hawes going early, and he is having a good game, he can close out the 4th for you.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 4:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah but I think the whole reason for TZ's post even if he didn't state it outright
is that Spencer is very inconsistent about getting it going at all. Too many times when he does start he really never gets it going is pulled early and doesn’t end up getting much more than low twenty minute burn anyway. Ideally, you’d rather get Spence going early, but just because he starts doesn’t mean he’s ever going to get it going in the game, mentally fragile or not.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
The other thing about fouls
If Brockman gets into early foul trouble, it’s not like he was one of your go-to guys for crunch time. If he gets two quick fouls, you let him keep playing.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Or he earns no early fouls
and when he’s in late in the game he can just beat guys up. i have no problem with him fouling out as long as someone’s nose is broken or is missing a tooth
www.mancancook.net
I'm down
I thought the same thing after the Phoenix game. Also, as I wrote on Aykis’ Hawes thread, the more I thinkg about, the more Hawes makes sense with the second unit. He could really play his game when he’s one of the best players on the floor. Offense can be run through him and he doesn’t have to fight anyone for touches or shots.
Great pointsw about shots when Kevin comes back. We definitely want shots coming from our most efficient players. To me, basketball has always being about teammates complementing each other, and with that in mind, Brockman could be a good complemtn to the other guys.
As TZ clarified, it’s not about giving him lots of minutes, just about maximizing the efficiency of the team. Starters mean nothing to minutes played, just look at PW’s rotation and minutes for everyone. If this is a comination that will get more Ws, try it!
If there’s a time to try different things, it’s now. This is the experimental year so why not?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
This
If there’s a time to try different things, it’s now. This is the experimental year so why not?
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Experimentation is fine
But let’s not overlook that Brockman has basically only been used at this point in situations and against teams where the matchup is highly favorable. It’s one thing for Brockman to come in and annoy Amare for a few minutes when the rest of the team has been useless guarding him, quite another to anoint him the starter and ask him to chase around Bosh, Nowitzki, Gasol, et al. And as disjointed as the offense gets at times, particularly against good defenses, I’m not so sure that offense should be taken for granted.
Not talking about TZ specifically, but the Brockman love is approaching irrationality (if it’s not there already). We all like guys who play hard, but the dude doesn’t walk on water. That’s Maynor.
by nbrans on Jan 7, 2010 2:00 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Don't know if it's
Brock-love as much as Hawes disappointment.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
True
I suspect Brock will always be a fan favorite—like Pollard was. But if Hawes breaks out with two or three 16/10/3 games in a row, I think he’ll bee the center of choice again.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
I agree with this
the Brockman love is approaching irrationality
Personally, the only reason I’m alright with the idea is because if we are going to try some different stuff, this season is when we can afford to.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Maynor is so special
Water moves away from his feet.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I trust Westphal
to make the correct decision involving the Brockness. Paul always makes it a point to give John kudos for a good game so he is definitely aware of what he’s doing.
How about this:
A minute ago everyone had to get out of the way and let the young guys play so they gained the experience and wnet through the growing pains on the floor…blah,blah,blah.
Now the young guy who has lost his rhythm with some of the new and otherwise mostly positive developments has to sit down…so that what?
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
While I understand where you are coming from
I think that you’re forgetting is not about giving Brockman more minutes than Hawes, i’s just about Brockman playing the first minutes of the game to set the tone. All about combinations, not about who plays more minutes
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I think I'm not forgetting.
The argument you just gave makes some sense, setting aside the important factor of familiarity on the court among your key guys and how they see one another as key guys.
However, the thrust of the article is decidedly Hawes vs Brockman, using words like “replacing”. And it is that to which I was responding.
I have been a Brockman guy from day 1. However, it is the very combinations of which you wisely speak that I believe have a great deal to do with his minutes and surprisingly positive effectiveness. I have a sense that Westphal is getting it mostly right.
Yep, that’s one of my senses.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Nice idea and he probably has played well enought, but I don't think Brockman should start
Brockman is effective as a rhythm and game changer. He comes in and can add defensive and rebounding intensity and he always plays at full tilt. Hawes, off the bench, won’t give you as much since his game is dictated by his confidence more than anyone else in a Kings uniform. If we break his confidence by sitting him, I don’t see him acting as a microwave when he comes in. So we will basically go down to 2 low post players instead of 3, and only 1 low post scorer, who, as we all know, is still inconsistent.
Though your point can be realized by Brockman getting more minutes, which I think he is, particularly when either Hawes or JT are off.
Also, by mid January, I think we will have a very exciting team that hopefully Spence can pick his spots and flourish in so that in 2 years he is a consistent contributor, given all his talent.
Proj Lineup: Starters – Evans, Martin, Casspi, JT, Hawes; Off Bench: Garcia, Beno, Greene, Brockman; No More Time: Ime, K9, Segio…I can’t wait for the lineup of Evans, Martin, Garcia, Casspi and JT playing together.
+1. I can't wait for that line up either.
I agree with this (on Spence):
If we break his confidence by sitting him, I don’t see him acting as a microwave when he comes in.
Lord knows if it breaks him or not…but I don’t see Spence becoming a spark plug like Brocktimus is right now off the bench.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
if i remember correctly spence didnt start against the twolves or the bucks
he seemed to do just fine in one of the games when he came off the bench. he was productive in his 15 min.
Now,
How do I go back and make this a reply to my good friend edm7?
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
And make this a reply to my reply to his reply?
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Can't do it.
Just learn from it and move on.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 7, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Do you really want left hand to learn how to possess a fake green card?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I keep moving on
and I keep not learning from stuff.
This bodes not well.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
I'm all for it.
Lets see how it works and then form an opinion.
After 2-3 starts if its working continue if not at least we know. This knowledge is critical with respect to trade scenarios and player acquisitions
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
Sounds good to me
I’m all for Brockman taking some of Hawes minutes. I wouldn’t be if Hawes rebounded better. Brockman rebounds better and is 6 inches shorter. Now consider this. What if Brockman had Hawes height? Oh man.
What if Brockman had Hawes' height?
All of his pants would be way too short.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
True
But given the way they sag those long basketball shorts these days the length would be about right.
And who in their right mind would call him on it?
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
I say we do this
And here is why. If my memory is correct when his Brockness has come in the last few times we were losing on the defensive end of things and he completely changed the tone of the game.
All of the sudden we had defense and generally turned the game around. This seems similar to Casspi coming in and shooting the lights out. You start him and guess what he is now shooting more and making even more points.
Why would it not be the same for Brockman only defensively. He starts and brings tough defensive energy to the game. I think he can control his fouls. He is a pretty savvy BB guy.
He isn’t on the floor to shoot jumpshots so I really don’t see the problem. It isn’t like he can get left by his defender because then Evans can just dish to him down low, and furthermore he will clean up around the paint off misses.
Again, I say we do this and see what happens. If it doesn’t work then so be it, but given the times he has come in I think it will be good.
let me start
We already have enough offensive firepower and with Martin coming back, we will have even more. If anything, I am concerned with us being weaker than we already are defensively.
I am not worried about his 10-15 foot jump shot. You do not need 5 offensive studs to win, in fact it may cause a problem.
Kurt Rambis, Dennis Rodman, Paul Milsap, Reggie Evans, Jeff Foster, Ben Wallace, etc, etc, were and are all the weak links on their teams offensively. They did and do the dirty work. And, none of them except for Foster is over 6’ 9" and they are all and were rebounding machines. Height except in Spud Webb’s case has very little to do with rebounding. We need someone to rebound and keep Amare’s ass off the boards and the scoreboard. like Brock did the other night. Gasol killed us the other night too (when JT sucked) on the boards.
I am up for trying anything that will help in the middle.
Remember what Spence said about his rebounding numbers in college and the reason they were low. Brock got them all.
by noreboundsnorings on Jan 7, 2010 3:26 PM PST reply actions
First off the bench, not starting
Yes, he hustles and grabs boards and balls, but he’d be a matchup liability, defending the Yao Mings of this league.
If a good match-up warrants, he should be used frequently.
And, he grabs a lot of loose basketballs too.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Brockman as a starter...
But what about Kenny Thomas?! Woof!
I say, start Kenny, let’s run the offense through him, that way we can showcase him and trade him! Here is my projected lineup, based on my desire to trade these players:
Kenny at center
Sean at power forward
Nocioni at small forward
Garcia at shooting guard
Beno at point guard
This is our most effective lineup to accomplish our goals for this season, which are a) get another high draft pick and b) let the players we want to trade seem more desirable so we can trade them.
Imagine starting this unit, then bringing our young good players off the bench. This seems to be the best thing the team can do right now.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 3:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
We need
a generalized asinine thread somewhere
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
its Ice_9ine, not asinine, you jerk-off!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 4:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i do agree i should have my own thread
With my own contradicting opinions.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 4:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Brockman as a starter...
But what about Kenny Thomas?! Woof!
I say, start Kenny, let’s run the offense through him, that way we can showcase him and trade him! Here is my projected lineup, based on my desire to trade these players:
Kenny at center
Sean at power forward
Nocioni at small forward
Garcia at shooting guard
Beno at point guard
This is our most effective lineup to accomplish our goals for this season, which are a) get another high draft pick and b) let the players we want to trade seem more desirable so we can trade them.
Imagine starting this unit, then bringing our young good players off the bench. This seems to be the best thing the team can do right now.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 3:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
i get to post the same thing twice
Because what I have to say counts more.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 3:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Brilliant!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
None of this would have happened had Spence just gone to summer league.
I kid, I kid
ducks
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Jan 7, 2010 4:07 PM PST via mobile reply actions
in all seriousness, I am worried about Spencer
And I don’t think bringing him off the bench is gonna help.
Is it possible his great play last January was his way of working off his anger over Obama being elected? And that now he is just too disgusted and worried about health care to focus on basketball?
Brockman should play more, but I do not think he has won the starting job yet. Yet.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 4:14 PM PST via mobile reply actions
has anybody looked up
What the top 5 lineups as far as adjusted plus/minus are? I can’t look it up, since my girlfriend borrowed my laptop indefinitely.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Jan 7, 2010 4:24 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Brockman has limits to his game
I still think he is best utilized in 10-15 minute stretches per ball game.
He is a monster out there for sure, but he isn’t an NBA starter. He can benefit now by coming off of the bench and bringing his energy and hustle, but as soon as you start him, you lose that.
Also, teams don’t game plan for him at all right now. That is allowing him to look really good out there. The second time through the league, we may see teams take a different approach.
Two things concern me as others have mentioned:
1. Defenses sagging off of him and clogging the lane. This is going to hurt Tyreke the most, but also the entire offense. It will allow a big man to just camp in the lane. Yes, he might develop that 10-15 footer, but doesn’t have it yet.
2. I’ve noticed that teams (especially the smarter ones) start to make adjustments even in game. I thought Brockman was left in a little too long in the first Lakers game at Arco. The Lakers started making adjustments to him being in there and started posting Gasol deeper and really exploiting Brockman’s lack of heighth. The moved everyone else out and isolated Gasol/Brockman and were able to get a few key buckets in crunch time. Those are times when it is essential that we have Spencer’s size out on the floor and that he plays up to his size. I know that I wasn’t the only one that noticed how the Lakers adjusted to Brockman out there. He played over 21 minutes in that first game and was awesome in his hustle and presense on the floor. Then in the next game, Paul Westphal played him all of 5 minutes. This was because the Lakers had already adjusted for Brockman and already had a new strategy for when he came into the game. Other teams will do the same and it will only increase if he is the starter. Teams will game plan better and exploit his weaknesses.
Right now Brockman’s strengths are his hustle off the bench and the fact that Westphal can exploit matchups and choose when to put Brockman in there. He is a headache for teams that don’t see him coming. Look at the job he did on Amar’e the other night. The problem to me is that I can guarantee that Phoenix is going to discuss how Brockman impacted them in that game and I can guarantee that Amar’e will be ready the next time they face Sacramento and he will do a much better job of exploiting some of Brockman’s weaknesses.
I love Brockman and what he is bringing to the table, but he is a 10-15 minute guy max in the NBA. Maybe a little more if he gets that jump shot, but his lack of heighth will always be exploitable by the opposition and even more so if he is starting.
The best bet for them is that Spencer plays like a 7-footer and Brockman can still come in and rough guys up in the middle of games.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
by The Czar on Jan 7, 2010 4:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
While your points are valid
There really isn’t any way for any team in the league, aside from maybe the Celtics, to even hope to match up against the Lakers front line. As much as we all hate the Lakers and consider every game against them to be of the utmost importance, I’d rather worry about what gives us the best chance to win most games as opposed to worrying about how to match up against the defending champs.
I used the Lakers as an example
It will apply to every team with a large power forward though. Not just the champs. Amar’e WILL be more prepared to handle Brockman the next time around. I guarantee it. Most teams employ power forwards that are the focal points of their offense and are much taller than Brockman.
Right now, Brockman is a total surprise for some of these guys. It’s like facing a rookie pitcher that makes a lineup look foolish. Once you see him the second time, you are more prepared and it is easier to exploit some of the deficiencies. Teams will do that. They will start to adjust to Tyreke and Casspi in little ways as well.
Brockman is solid in his role as a pest to some of these other big guys, but there are limits to his game. I like his current role and don’t see him as a starter in any way for the Kings. Not now or in the future.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
by The Czar on Jan 7, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Two excellent posts
PW has been masterful so far in using Brockman in a way that utilizes his strengths, and shields his limitations. Seeing him start against Chris Bosh, Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer, Gasol, Alrdige, Lee, etc night after night…..I don’t know. Hustle, muscle, and guile are great off the bench, but might seem a bit talent deficient to handle thirty minutes against the other teams first string.
You could make the same argument for Spencer
might seem a bit talent deficient to handle thirty minutes against the other teams first string.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
One thing I don't understand
and I’d appreciate it if someone could explain, why would he not bring his energy and hustle if he started? And if he would, why is it more important to bring energy and hustle off the bench as opposed to in the starting lineup? It seems to me that if energy and hustle is actually something that helps you win basketball games, you’d want it in there as much as possible.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
because energy and hustle
have more impact when you are using them against good players that are somewhat tired / uninterested or around crappy players.
So generally you see hustle guys come in when the other team has a lead and gets a little bored, or starters have been on the floor a while or against crappy bench players.
If starting hustle guys was a good idea, Mark Madsen would be a max contract guy. They are hustle guys because they get destroyed by starters, all other things being equal. There are exceptions (Rodman, Ben Wallace), but they are the exceptions.
And don’t confuse “hustle guy” with “do the little things, defend and make open shots guy”. The latter can be a starter on a great team, because no team needs 5 ball-dominant guys, but Brockman has some growing up to do to get there (not saying its impossible he would).
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
I don't think we really know whart we have
until we take it out for a little longer test drive.
Brockman’s banged well against the likes of Gasol, Varejao, David Lee, Kevin Love and Nene to name a few, so he’s not exactly chopped liver. The worst thing that could happen is he could surprise some people and at least clear up some misconceptions that seem to have arisen due to this sporadic appearances.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 7, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
Add Stoudemire and Noah to that list
Brockman completely took Noah out of the game in the big comeback win against the Bulls. That was after he only played 51 seconds against the Bulls at Arco when Noah went off for 15 points and 14 rebounds and looked like he was in a dunk contest.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 7, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
There are certain guys in the NBA that are better suited for 10 minutes of fire or bench roles.
Once you make them starters, you lose some of that.
He will still bring his energy and hustle. There is no doubt about that. But asking a guy to bring it 25-30 minutes is much different than letting a guy know that he can go full out for 10 minutes.
There is a lot that goes into this. For one, when you come off of the bench, you are not worried about fouls, period. You can go after every single loose ball and just go at guys. If you rack up 6 fouls in 10 minutes, so what. You did your job and left the other team with some pain. Brockman is very similar to that now. But, if he is expected to play 25+ minutes in a starting role, he will have to contain some of that. That could change his game. Right now his game is ALL about the hustle. That is part of it. The other issue is whether he can maintain that pace for longer stints as I mentioned above.
It is up to that coaches to know the limits of their players and allocate playing time accordingly. Manu Ginobili for example is one of the best players in the NBA, but he is not a starter for a reason. Popovich knows that with Manu’s style, he would kill himself, injure himself, or burn himself out if he played him as many minutes as most players of his quality play. Instead, Manu averages about 27 minutes a game in his career. Houston is doing something similar with Carl Landry off of their bench. Their job is to bring energy and fire.
Brockman is a maximum energy guy. He gives you everything he has during his time on the floor. He has to in order to compete at this level and do what he is doing out there given the constraints on his talent and actual basketball skills. If you play him more than he is now, I seriously question whether he could maintain that type of energy and pace on a regular basis. It’s just difficult to do. He has a role and knows that role and plays it well. Asking him to start and do more than he is currently doing is just asking too much in my opinion. I don’t think he can maintain that level nor does he have the actual basketball skills to compete as a starter on a regular basis. Sure, we are frustrated with Spencer, but he has a lot more tools in the tool box than Jon Brockman does. Our best bet, as I said earlier is to hope that Spencer figures it out and gains consistency. He has a future as a starting center in the NBA. I just don’t think Brockman does. Role player? Absolutely. Starter? I just don’t see it right now. I’d love for him to prove me wrong though.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
by The Czar on Jan 7, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You're probably right
Sure, we are frustrated with Spencer, but he has a lot more tools in the tool box than Jon Brockman does.
In fact, with Spencer it may be a case of having way too many tools and using too many of them. He’d actually be better off if he mastered about half of his repertoire and limited the rest of it to games of H-O-R-S-E. Things I’d like to see Spencer master for starters: defense, rebounding, dunking, pick and roll, pick and pop, the Tim Duncan 15-foot face up bank shot.
I do like Spencer’s high post passing game, but that seems to work better with Beno than Tyreke.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
This is why i would rather see him off bench with Beno, then on starting 5 with Omri and Tyreke. The biggest problem is who you put in the game for him, and we dont have the 3rd big. I could see this though
Tyreke > Sergio
Casspi > Beno
Donte > Chapeu
Udoka > Brockman/K9
JT > Hawes
Pretty nice small ball lineup right there, only problem is we would get run over by large power teams. Even if we get another young center like a Javale Mcgee it would give us more options.
As always you will be switching your lineups for every team dependent on who the star or stars are, but I think this would be a pretty energetic defensive bunch with good rebounding and can put up the points on the offensive side. When Kmart gets back it would look more like this(With May, K9 and Noc gone)
Tyreke > Sergio
Kmart > Beno > Francisco
Casspi > Udoka
Donte > Brockman
JT > Hawes
Judgment day is coming!
See
This is just crazy. Brockman isn’t Barkley or Rodman. Yes, he is limited in both his length and his game. He is a brute. Rodman and Barkley were both crazy athletes. Both of them probably ranked as some of the quickest leapers in the game with great vertical. Rodman was like a frickin poggo stick. Even if he couldn’t get to a ball, he could jump up, tip it, and jump up and grab it before the other guy could even get up.
Ever see Barkley dunk in the early dunk contest he was in? Crazy leaper. There is a TON more to this than just how tall a guy is.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
There's a ton more to Barkley now too...,
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Nice enthusiasm
But to compare him to even Rambis, at this point, is having an optimistic (and obtainable) view of his career path, he could very easily be Mark Madsen too.
I understand the conclusions
I’m not sure if I agree with them or not. It’s a sticky situation either way, and I still don’t see how Brockman would really help the Kings more starting than off the bench. As several have said, Brockman is an energy guy, and you need that. Plus, running the risk of making Spencer worse is not necessarily that wise. I just don’t think Brockman brings enough defensively to make the team defense better with the starters. On the other hand, if Spence could play better off the bench it would be a great boon for this team.
When you’re 14-19 there isn’t any easy solution. That’s what I do know.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
14-20 sorry
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Well
I still don’t see how Brockman would really help the Kings more starting than off the bench
Defensive rebounds come to mind.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
His strength is offensive rebounding
Not saying, but just sayin….
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Right at even really
But I get the point
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite and here's why
There are far less O-Reb’s to get, and as such for Brockman to be rebounding DEFENSIVELY the ball the way he does OFFENSIVELY, it would be nearly 35-40%.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I like it
If guys like Ben Wallace can flourish as starters then I don’t see why Brockman couldn’t as well.
Two totally different animals.
Ben Wallace changes peoples shots with his interior defense.
Wallace averages 2.1 blocks per game in his career.
Jon Brockman has two blocks ALL season long (both in the same game).
That is a huge part of the case that I’m trying to make. We love Brockman’s hustle and rebounding, but trust me on this, opposing PF’s will figure him out and he isn’t changing people’s shots because he just isn’t long enough. This severely limits his ability to be a post defender and his long term prospects of ever being considered a starter.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
We're talking about Our team
For this year, this moment, not forever.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
This year, this moment, is all about the future
Spencer has a future as a starter and needs those minutes. He has the tools. He just needs to use them consistently. We need to hire somebody to just rough Spencer and JT up before every game and make sure they are ready. Enough of these slow starts and lethargic play. Spencer was way more aggressive last year. We all knew there would be growing pains this season and none of us expected them to grow this fast. Sacrifice now to continue that growth so that we are better in the future. Spencer has a shot at being that future center. If we don’t find out now, then we might as well try to swing that Okafor or Dalembert deal, because I know that Brock isn’t the answer.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
Vicious cycle: I like Brockman but Spencer has to start
Based on the poll, most people here think Spencer has regressed.
I’m beginning to think that he’ll regress more if he doesn’t start or get fewer minutes.
That doesn’t help the Kings on the court, and it doesn’t help Spencer’s trade value if
you wanted to see him traded.
I think Spence has stayed about the same
Add 2 minutes and his stat line is about the same as last year’s.
Warriors vs KIngs
Brockman should get playing time to the max. Brockman is an amazing Basketball player and was on the cover of ncaa live 09. I expect a great brockalicious moment such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onxSIBxMS4. Clink on the link.
ITS BROCKALICIOUS.
BK
LInk
Ooops here’s the Brockalicious moment against the Suns.
BK
by Brockalicious on Jan 7, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
This is only a test
Blazersedge is in the crash and or wont load mode,have things been functioning here normally?
Well, this is Sactown Royalty
So it depends on your definition of “normal.” Be we have had no technical difficulties.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
i was refering to technical things obviously
by southern oregon on Jan 7, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Chasm-sar
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
It's probably Nate MacMillan's fault
Or Andre Millers, depending on which side of the fence you’re on.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
~right!~
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 7, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don't care whether he starts
I just want him to play more minutes and think Hawes needs to play less. Good things happen when Brockman’s on the court. I do agree with the notion that Hawes and Beno would work well together in the second unit, but Brockman also plays well with Beno and just about anyone you throw him in there with.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 7, 2010 8:19 PM PST reply actions
Now more minutes I can definitely agree with
I don’t want to seem like I’m here to bash Brockman or anything like that. I love the way he plays and definitely think he has earned more minutes. I just don’t think he is an NBA starter.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
Night in and night out, Brockman proves he helps the Kings win.
And 7 to 8 games (?) after what he did to the Chicago Bulls, Jon Brockman still plays just 11 minutes per contest? The guy is a winner. Brockman in game = higher rate of success.
Westphal needs to start giving Brockman more minutes, pronto. It’s long overdue. Let Spencer Hawes start; just give Jon a lot more minutes.
by Mike11188 on Jan 8, 2010 2:55 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Very well said
Short and sweet and right across the board. Great first post, and weclome aboard.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 8, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
While I agree with the argument that he would be more efficient and is better defensively than any other big man the Kings have I disagree that he should start. I also think that Spencer Hawes is the wrong target.
While it is true that Spencer is the least efficient starter, toying with a promising 21 year old center’s psyche is never a good idea. You’ll notice the next and almost equally as inefficient player on the list is Andres Nocioni. Currently Nocioni is getting almost 25 minutes a game. If you reduced Nocioni’s minutes to 15 per game and trade away the K9 that leaves almost 15 more minutes to be had and now 2 inefficient players are on the court less while Brockman then gets 25-30 minutes a night without cutting into the minutes that are so crucial to the development of Spencer Hawes.
The reason I don’t think he should start is all together different. It runs along the same lines as Pop bring Manu off the bench. Manu is good enough to start on almost any team, but he’s worth more off the bench. He still gets his minutes and points but his energy, hustle and leadership on the second unit are invaluable. Phil Jackson did this with Lamar Odom last year and they even brought in Artest which keeps Odom on the bench to start the game. Brockman would bring a different type of energy, defensive. JJ Hickson starts for the Cavs, but Varejao finishes and he comes in relatively quick. Same thing with Kenyon Martin and Chris Anderson. Energy and hustle are not stats that can be quantified but the biggest fires start with just a spark. Let Brockman be that spark. There’s no way they complete that 35 come back without Brockman. Also, had the Bulls had their "spark" (Ben Gordon) still they would have won that game. He’s the difference from last year. In addition, the first 5 minutes of most NBA games are a feeling out process. His energy would be wasted in those feeling out minutes.
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