A Full List of Expiring Contracts From Luxury Tax Teams the Sacramento Kings Can Absorb
by Tom Ziller on Jan 9, 2010 11:54 AM PST
in Free Agency/Trades
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Print... without sending a player back in return, ranked by order of expected pick order in the second round, given the Marc Spears rumor that the Kings plan to take an expiring deal off a luxury tax team's hands for a second-round pick.
Caveat: one player per team, the most expensive (but less than $4M) expendable player in each case.
Randy Foye ($3.5M, pick will be 32-40, Fabricio Oberto [$2M] is another option)
Royal Ivey ($1M, pick will be 32-40)
Nate Robinson ($4M, pick will be 35-45, Knicks also own Clippers' pick [unless Clips pass Nuggets], Robinson can void any trade)
Dorell Wright ($2.9M, Miami has only New Orleans second, which will be 40-50)
Malik Allen ($1.3M, pick will be 50-55)
Michael Finley ($2.5M, pick will be 50-56)
Kris Humphries ($2.9M, pick will be 50-56, Humphries rumored in trade to New Jersey with No. 2 Dallas trade option Shawne Williams)
Brian Scalabrine ($3.4M, pick will be 55-60)
Anthony Johnson ($2M, pick will be 55-60)
If you open this up to non-top 5 first-round picks (no Philly, no Washington), you can add:
Hilton Armstrong ($2.8M, pick will be 12-18, Hornets would be very close to getting under tax)
Brian Cook ($3.5M, pick will be 18-24)
I'll put my ducks in the Armstrong basket. As the 2009 draft showed, two top 20 picks in the Kings' hands would be excellent.
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I could do it if you want me to.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Yep
Armstrong seems to be the best deal overall for us. And if it lets NO get below the tax threshold, they might bite.
Though, really, any pick in Petrie’s hands is a potential gem.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 9, 2010 12:02 PM PST reply actions
Yeah
The Armstrong option looks good to me. Obviously, the pick we’d get looks good, but Armstong seems like a player that still has some developing to do, and he would get some good tutilage and possibly playing time here. If he shows he can contribute, he sure fits a need as a shot-blocking reserve big.
And that extra first rounder…
DO IT!!!!! DO IT!!
I'm just too ignorant about the mechanics of all of this to have an opinion.
I don’t really know which of these guys the Kings could actually use, which will be content to quietly sit and expire, which might impact the development of our young guys simply by eating up minutes from time to time.
And I’m really too ignorant to see what the upside is, aside from getting a pick that realistically, won’t end up being much. No disrespect to GP, the man spins gold from poop, but second round picks are generally what they are cracked up to be.
We pick up salary, just to lose it at the end of the year? What are the short and long term benefits of doing that, or is it really about getting a low pick for the cost of eating half-a-year’s salary for one of these guys?
Again, not trying to say there’s no point to it, I’m just too slow to understand the big picture, and I know this is the place I can learn what it’s about. Thanks, all!
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
“And I’m really too ignorant to see what the upside is, aside from getting a pick that realistically, won’t end up being much. No disrespect to GP, the man spins gold from poop, but second round picks are generally what they are cracked up to be.”
BROCKNESS MONSTER WILL EAT YOUR FOR THE COMMENT!
Judgment day is coming!
Meant to caption this photo as ~~Burmeister just told Brockman what Andy Sims said about him"
Judgment day is coming!
Qualifier
No disrespect to GP, the man spins gold from poop, but second round picks are generally what they are cracked up to be."
Who could I have been talking about?
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
GumpelPiltskin
I don't see what's wrong with giving Bobby a little experience before he starts to practise law.
There are two pieces here -
Using the acquisition of Armstrong as an example, you pick up a mid-first round pick. I don’t think that anyone would question what Petrie might be able to do with a 12-18 pick.
If a 2nd round pick is acquired, the thought would be that the Kings could trade that pick (and the non-guaranteed contract status that goes with it) on draft day to a team that is over the luxury tax and looking to shed contract (like Denver with Marcus Camby a couple of years ago). In this instance, the 2nd round pick is actually more attractive to the taxed team than the 1st round pick, as it really has no financial impact coming back to them.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And 1 -
I could see the Kings doing this deal for Armstrong or Cook and the pick that comes with it, or for Oberto, as you would be getting some help up front for the short term. Beyond that, I’m not so sure.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
i'd take armstrong and the pick.
"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches
OK
Im still a little sick, and Im not really processing this ….
So in your scenario, we’d get Armstrong and the 12-18 pick …. for what? like the “option” of trading 2nd round picks?
I think it works like this...
The Kings can ask the tax team to pay a portion of the expiring contract for half a season, reducing their liability to a player they have no long term interest in. We take on the player, or waive the player, and likely ask the tax team to pay a portion of the remaining salary. The motivation for the tax team for getting under the threshold is to avoid the penalty AND receive their share of the payout pool to teams under the threshold. I think this about $4 million per team. So even if the tax team coughs up 1 million dollars to us (cash considerations) so we pay off most of the EC, it still benefits them financially, and us, as we get a future asset for limited cost. Someone can probably explain it better, but that’s my understanding of how it works.
There has to be something of ‘value’ we give to the tax team. I think this a trade exception, but I am not sure. If the tax team gives us second round pick, a player, and cash, what do they get in exchange?
Seriously?? 4 million of instant cap savings...
…plus an addition of the potential of 4 million in lux tax dollars to total an 8 million in savings and get JUST a 2nd round pick??? That’s TERRIBLE return if true. We should be able to AT LEAST get a mid-late 1st round pick for that. There’s a lot of demand, and not a lot of supply. Leverage is on our side finally, USE IT, WISELY!
How would the deal actually work?
Say it’s for Armstrong. So, Kings get Armstrong + pick and NO just unloads him straight up?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Pretty much
I know it sounds weird, but the Hornets actually have sold 1st round draft picks ($3 million price tag). This would be similar, as the salary and luxury tax savings that they would incur with this deal would be in that same price range.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
do you think no, will pay us for taking armstrong?
"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches
Remember, they save twice Hilton's salary becuase of lux tax
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know
No biggie, though. He is owed about $1.5 million for the rest of the season. In effect, that would be buying a 12-18 draft pick for $1.5 million, plus Armstrong might be able to help (a little) up front.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
are the kings going to get a first or second round pick if we do this armstrong deal
"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches
Don't know
$1.5 million for a 2nd round pick is way too much, unless they figure on pulling a Camby further on down the line.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
So they save about $4.3 mil
+ the salary of that draft pick
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
= selling thier mid round pick for $4.3 mil
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
my bet would be that the Kings would not take on extra salary
“cash considerations”
by betweentheeyes on Jan 9, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Then it doesn't really save NO that much money.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Would save the tax
plus they get the money every team in the L gets from being non tax payers, no?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I guess
Still, I don’t know if I’d give up a 1st round pick, possibly in the lottery, to save a couple million dollars. Then again, I’ll probably never even have a couple million dollars, so I’m sort of talking out my ass here.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Haha
I don’t think any of us know how much it is to owe that knd of money. That being said, I don’t think they give up a first rounder. The speculation is just exciting (to me at least) because looks lik the FO may be looking to make some smart deals to improve this team. Like I asked below, maybe Levien is behind some of this
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
interesting isn't it. Geoff Petrie (along with Austin Powers) already holds the distinction of "International Man of Mystery"
and Jason Levien is even more mysterious. Does this make him (a good) #2?
by betweentheeyes on Jan 9, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Apparently
you don’t know how cheap the Hornets are. They are bleeding money and trying to dump salaries any way possible. Sending us Hilton Armstrong saves them over $4 million (but only costs us the rest of this season’s salary). Plus, in their eyes a 1st round pick might just be another guaranteed contract they have to start paying for next year. It won’t mean a luxury tax hit this year, but its additional salary for next year. There are plenty of teams that have given up first rounders to dump a salary
www.mancancook.net
edm has nailed it
They save the salary + luxury tax+ get refund for being under….could get up to around $15 million swing .
thats more than
the max $3 million teams are allowed to pay for a pick
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
or is it 2 million?
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Any thoughts about keeping Armstrong, if it could be done cheaply?
Seems like he’s only gotten limited minutes in his career. Does he have any value if he could be re-signed on the cheap?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
He has a QO of almost $3.9 million next year, I think
So it becomes a Diogu deal. Better to cut him loose and offer him a cheap contract.
I liked him a lot coming out of college, but he hasn’t done much as a pro. And there have definitely been times where New Orleans needed his contributions – he just has not cashed in on his opportunities.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hmmm....
Granted, I have a sims-like understanding cap/salary stuff, but getting a 12-18 pick for 1.5 mil seems like a pretty good deal to me, especially when it’s Petrie making that pick!
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
New Orleans
sold their 1st round pick a couple of years ago for $3 million, and that pick was in the 20’s. So yes, that would be a pretty good value.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
As I said, its really $.3 for them in all considerations
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
($4.3)
this year + that rookie salary next. Then they have the Peja expiring next year to try to do something.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
That seems win-win
They’re realizing a 3 mil savings and we’re only paying 1.5 mil- works for me!
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
They're saving $4.3 and we're only paying $1.5
Nice under the cap result if it happened. And Hilton can play.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Even better if they're saving 4.3 mil
Doesn’t look like he gets much pt in NO. Think he could get many minutes here as the 3rd big?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Sure
depending on what PW thinks of him
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
aren't we getting a little too excited
this is a rumor, and there are no real players involved in this yet
"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches
I don't know if this has a prayer of happening
But the process is fascinating to me. So I’m not excited in the respect that this is going to actually happen, but I am excited about the potential and the what if scenarios and the conversation that it has spawned.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm excited to hear
that the fornt office may be thinking about using the different options they have by being under the cap to make this team better. That’s what it is about really, making the team better in the short or long term. I like having flexibility and planning for the future.
Anyone thinks Levien may be behind some of this rumors? He is supposedly the cap guru in the FO and was brought in because of his understanding of it
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Holy crap...
this is what i’m talking about. get a first round pick just for paying hilton armstrong?
this is great!!!!
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
i'm glad the kings have caught onto this, buying other teams 1st rounders thing...
so smart. so smart.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Brian Scalabrine!
The Kings should take Brian Scalabrine from the Celtics.
He’s not any good on the court, but he’s their lucky leprechaun. If you take him, you take all the luck from Boston and bring it to Sacramento.
The Kings currently do not have a lucky leprechaun.
put me in, Coach
if we pick up Scal
send him to the draft lottery and think of John Wall.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 9, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
lets also sign gabe pruitt, sam clancy, and david bluthenthal while we're at it...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
I see this like those $2 Taco Bell commercials...
The player is “free” and the Kings are buying a pick.
I’ll go along with everybody else and say Armstrong is the first option.
But who would be the 2nd or 3rd option is more interesting.
I say:
Second option is Royal Ivey.
Third option is former Laker scrub Cook.
Why? Because we have Petrie and save $2.5M…. with a lesser GM you put Cook over Ivey.
wait a sec...if it's specifically a 2nd round pick...
Royal Ivey…is the first option
by getPGwithbounce on Jan 9, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
Ivey sucks. Badly. I’d rather have Sean May on the roster.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 9, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Because Philadelphia will have the better 2nd round pick.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I'd take
Randy Foye without taking a draft pick.
BOOK IT!
Randy Foye wishes he could be Beno Udrih
He has no spot on this roster. If he can’t buy time in Washington, he’s not gonna see any in Sacramento.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
He was very good in Minnesota
I live in northern Va, surrounded by Wizards fans and theyre always saying he just doesnt get enough opportunities. Theyre like us with a ton of guards and forwards, but I think with Gil gone i could definitely see him steping in and playing well. I dont think hes a scrub at all. Although I agree, we have no need for him.
"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon.' Need I say more?"
-Chris Rock
Only four I'd take are Foye, Robinson, Wright, or Armstrong
The rest are pretty awful players.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
It's not about the player reeally
Just about options in the future. Maybe you get a first rounder (doubtful), maybe you get a second rounder (and then trade that to a team dumping players next year), or who knowsof every other maneuver. Who knows what the plan of the FO is
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
More implications
I have a separate question: Isn’t the big pot of shared luxury tax divided by only those teams who qualify? i.e. $50M of luxury tax – 10 teams qualify = $5M/team. if the Kings take on someone’s dump: they lose the amount added by the team over the cap, lowering the pot by – say $3M and add that team to the division. Now it is: $47M – 11 teams = $4.27M/team.
For teams that cut scouting, staff, press buffet tables – $730K is significant. There are a lot of factors here. Any trade would have to provide either a lot of talent/potential and/or a decent draft pick and/or a very amicable chunk of change – or some combination of all three.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 9, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
Great point bte
There’s definitely gonna have to be something good for the Kings to make such type deals. I don’t think the FO would do it just because, they’ll probably have a plan. But you bring a GREAT point
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
It'll be similar to the Cassell trade last season
We take on a player and cash and a pick for a future heavily protected 2nd rounder. The other team saves cash, we make cash and get a pick.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 9, 2010 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
No they don't...
It’s still split at 1/30th of the pot. The NBA collects the teams 1/30th of each team over the limit for a pretty sweet, tarp…er slush fund for Stern.
kris Humphries is being traded to NJN along with S.Williams for Eddy Najera
Saving DAL $4.3 Mil without giving up a pick. DAL doesn’t have any 2010 draft pick or 2011 2nd rounder (See S.Williams trade)
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Without a 1st rounder it isn't worth the trouble,
and it kill some possible multi player & uneven player trades at the deadline.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The idea of NO-SAC making a deal
was proposed by John Hollinger, which I posted in another thread, and he suggested Kings get a #1 pick in return. Maybe Spears source is his ESPN Insider subscription?
Just to set the facts straight, NO is $3.33 million over the cap. Hilton Armstrong contract is $2.8 million so moving him alone does not help NO enough, as they would be 0.5 million over the cap. They would have to include Ike Diogu (0.8) or Sean Marks (0.8) or Bobby Brown (0.7) to get below the threshold.
The cost to the Kings for a 1st round pick would be closer to $1.8 million, unless we ask NO to pick portion of the tab.
I think the point is just saving as much money as they can
I don’t think that not getting all the way under the cap is a deal breaker for the Hornets
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Yup
I posted this in another thread as well.
Another key component was getting out from under Noc’s contract. We take a salary hit this year, but get a pick plus save money in the future. The Hornets take Nocioni, but it doesn’t hurt them because they fall under the cap and don’t get that luxury tax hit. I’m all for moving Nocioni right now if we can. His value has plummeted this year and we need to figure out a creative way to move him.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
Royal Ivey is a poor man's Tyreke Evans
w/ zero offense, but I would love getting him for nothing, the guy can D-up kinda like Matt Barnes.
Dannyboy
That's sort of my point above...people are focusing too much on the player
Kings are getting Ivey for “nothing”….bury him on the bench if you want (looks like a decent 3pt shooter, that’s offense we could use)….but I digress…
It’s about getting the best 2nd round pick for the price,
and based on what Ziller has posted $1M for 32-40 is the cheapest and best option
for obtaining a 2nd round pick.
The interesting part is that Petrie must have a reason for wanting a 2nd round pick…
someone under the radar maybe…
by getPGwithbounce on Jan 10, 2010 3:27 AM PST up reply actions
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