Misguided by Voices: Kings' Loose Reins (Apparently) Strike Again

Calais Pier, J.M.W. Turner, 1803
Broken record alert: When you assemble a young, inexperienced roster, you need to provide those young, inexperienced players with guidance.
[Donté] Greene showed up at training camp last month weighing 260 pounds, which leaves him more equipped to bang against power forwards. [...] But Kings coaches are concerned that a bigger Greene might not be as quick defending on the perimeter.
"Yeah, I guess they didn't like it," Greene said of his weight gain. "I felt comfortable, but it is what it is. They asked me to lose it, so I'm working on losing it and getting on the floor."
Greene said he's down to 244 pounds after playing at a listed weight of 226 pounds last season. He also said his left knee has bothered him lately and has taken away some of his explosiveness.
Don't get it twisted: if Donté Greene came to camp at 260, it's because he lifted a ton of weights over the summer. Greene didn't get fat. Hassan Whiteside's improving physique was the story of Media Day last week, but a few folks noticed D.G.'s new upper body strength as well. Greene spent his summer bulking up.
That's hard work, especially for a guy as tall and thin as Greene. We've heard Mikki Moore's story a hundred times, about how no matter what he ate he'd never gain weight. For D.G. to commit to the weight room with such vigor is encouraging, completely.
But for the team to either not know he's adding that much weight, or for there to be miscommunication on where the coaches want Greene to be on the scale? That's completely unfortunate, and damning.
I seek not to make mountains of molehills; I can hear section214's tempered outlook sitting on my shoulder, wearing a halo and cautioning against overstatement. On the other shoulder I hear John Hollinger, with pitchfork in hand, explaining that this is exactly what makes everyone nervous about the Kings' handling of its young core. Little devilish Hollinger is holding up an autographed photo of Spencer Hawes, circa 2008. "Remember him? Remember the last promising kid the Kings muffed?"
This may not be the Kings' fault. Heck, it may even be Greene's fault. Miscommunication happens. Maybe the staff told Greene to gain exactly 14 pounds, and not a single gram more. I doubt it, but until we find out, we don't know.
As such, consider these my tempered comments. (Thanks, 214.) It doesn't look good. That's valuable time and physical stress wasted by Donté, and more time wasted now as Greene works to condition/atrophy away the new weight instead of working on his game. (I hardly think dropping 20 pounds in a few weeks is just a matter of replacing protein shakes with skim milk. That said, if it means he gets to use this contraption more often, maybe it's worth it.) Meanwhile, Paul Westphal is effectively shaking his head at Greene (and Omri Casspi) by starting Marcus Landry at small forward and opening up the positional competition to Antoine Wright and Francisco Garcia. He's not insulting him, of course, and he's certainly not overstepping his bounds as head coach. But he's showing discouragement at the kids, and given what we know about Greene's situation, I wonder how fair that is.
Again, we'll find out more, I'm sure. It just doesn't look good. The tag on the Kings as a basketball organization is that it's completely laissez-faire, unable to development talent that doesn't come ready-made or that doesn't have a strong outside influence (like Kevin Martin's trainers, Tyreke Evans' family/trainer). It's not a completely fair label, but there's some truth to it. Other teams' staffs are in much closer contact with players than the Kings. Sacramento tends to let players do their own things until the end of September. That's fine with a team of Mike Bibbys and Brad Millers; those dudes know what they need to do. Donté is young. All these guys are young. They need guidance. Why aren't they getting it?
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I agree completely
This, and other matters, reek of amateurism. I can understand that the players cannot be monitored or aided non-stop during the offseason, but some guidance is necessary, especially for younger players who haven’t figured it all out yet.
Something similar apllies to Omri, when at some point PW said that he had to figure things out himself with regard to his late season collapse. Isn’t it a task of the organization to help him?
I feel horrible for Greene, and I just cannot imagine how this could be his fault. He busted his ass all offseason long, only to hear that his accomplishments are in fact to his detriment. I hope he has the strength of mind to stay possitive and keep working.
I think PW could have a rough season ahead.
Dunking Dutchman
I think we need more details before drawing these conclusions
But 260 pounds does seem too heavy for a SF who doesn’t post up much, or rebound. If the plan was to earn PT on the perimeter primarily as a ‘3’, and Donte has stated this as his goal, 240 pounds seems more optimal to allow for bursts of speed, slashing drives to hoop, and lateral quickness on defense. Donte does not have the quickest feet to begin with. Lean strength (high reps, light weight) and agility is more important than adding bulk (low reps, heavy weight).
Something is amiss here. Unless I am mistaken, Donte was in Sac most of summer. Someone on the Kings should have been keeping tabs. If he was adding muscle against the wishes of the coaches, repercussions are on their way.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year.
Or, it could be that some of that 260 lbs wasn't muscle
I find it hard to believe that he’s lost 16 lbs of muscle already. this is what the Bee had to say today,
“Yeah, I guess they didn’t like it,” Greene said of his weight gain. “I felt comfortable, but it is what it is. They asked me to lose it, so I’m working on losing it and getting on the floor.”
Greene said he’s down to 244 pounds after playing at a listed weight of 226 pounds last season. He also said his left knee has bothered him lately and has taken away some of his explosiveness.
Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/10/07/3086006/kings-search-for-small-forward.html#ixzz11htlM5T1
As far as Donte ’ slashing drives to the hoop’, I just don’t ever think that about a 6-11 player. That just not going to happen, when the guy has to bend over just to keep from having a high dribble. The chances of having his dribble picked off is too high, excuse the pun, with a high dribble. The best option for Donte is to slash off the ball, and take a single dribble to set up his finish at the rim. Omri is quicker with the ball, but even he has a hard time getting all the way to the rim, when he has to start his drive outside the 3-pt arc.
Let’s face it, Donte’s best offensive weapon is and has always been his outside shot. He does need the lateral quickness which along with his length should make him a above average defender at the 3.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
You are right
about the slashing part. I was thinking more along the lines of slashing to the hoop on back door plays and filling the lane the breaks without the ball but did not phrase quite right.
When Donte tries to dribble drive from three point line to hoop it usually does not end well.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year.
He was at the gym lifting and playing bball all summer.
I think the added weight is muscle. I have donte on twitter and he played bball almost everyday.
Well done Ziller
I agree, this team is very young, and they do need guidance
I'm not sitting in your car, or your living room with a gun pointed to your head telling you to listen to 1140. - Grant Napear
Wow, that is damning
I mean this implies a lack of communication and mismanagement of players. It is good to be balanced and maybe this is off the mark, but damn…
People gain weight as they attain their adults body size. Some of this might be Donte’ maturing. So, they could be pushing him in a direction that just doesn’t make sense.
I think that getting ripped and cutting down the mass he has acquired can probably happen, but what if he really is not done growing? What if he really is developing into more of a 4 instead of a 3 based on his natural body size?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Definitely agree
This level of miscommunication is mystifying. And I really don’t understand what Westphal is doing with these starting lineups, but then, I never do.
(I know, I know, coaching staff wants to see different players together. You can still do that while letting the real starters get at least some time gelling.)
why isnt caspi starting?
Onw of the reasons the old kings were good was because their starting lineup was not messed with all the time! PW should try to solidify a starting lineup!
by LagunaKing on Oct 7, 2010 12:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The old Kings had all-stars on the roster.
I’m a fan of Adelman, but making out that lineup card wasn’t exactly brain surgery.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Oct 7, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, the only reason the old Kings were good
that is a completely logical and perfect assessment.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
haha
pwn’d him.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 7, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
just being a smartalic, didn't mean to pwn
lord knows I am not the most logical and perfect commentor out there
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
I think they know what they have in Casspi.
I think they’re taking a long look at MLandry, trying to decide if he’s roster-worthy or Reno-bound.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 7, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm trying
not to over worry about these things for anther week or two . . . .
I’ve already said about ten times that I think Casspi shoud be getting the nod, and didn’t see anything in the game the other night to disabuse me of that opinion.
I have no idea what’s going on with Donte’, so far it looks like C Landry slimmed down to his detriment and I think M Landry is just what he was brought in to audition for, a steady wing player of the bench.
There are plenty of bright spots so far though. Tyreke looked excellent and appears to have improved his jumper, JT looked very fit and much smoother and DMC had a very, very productive first rookie game. We haven’t even seen Dalembert and Whiteside really play yet but the front court depth and talent looks to be very impressive.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I guarantee
that if Donte called up Paul or Geoff and said “Hey, think I should gain 25 pounds so I can play more PF this year?” they would have said “mmmm, nah.”
Do you guys think they don’t have these guys’ numbers? It’s makes more sense that the players would bring something as drastic as this up to the coaches than to expect a coach or GM to say “hey are you gaining tons of weight this offseason?”
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 7, 2010 12:43 PM PDT reply actions
This is what has me wondering
Maybe he just isn’t done growing yet.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
This is a high-$ business
The team should know what he’s up to. Just because it’s the offseason, doesn’t mean it’s the Wild West.
Or they can just let these guys do their own thing, and get these type of results.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
So how is the weather up there in Utopia?
Mostly, employees wait for their managers to tell them what to do. Especially during their vacation…
Dunking Dutchman
At the end of the season
Players conduct exit interviews with coaching staff (Geoff too) to outline a summer strategy. So there should be no miscommunication between player and coaches as to off-season goals.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year.
by bench_blob on Oct 7, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he put on that weight
before the Kings traded for Dally and drafted another C and PF.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 7, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
They should have known during VSL
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Did it ever occur to anyone that the Kings didn't see Donte working out and putting on some weight as ever being a problem
until they saw how he played in training camp with the weight? I agree with bench blob up above, I think we need a little more info.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
I seem to recall the praised Mike Bibby showing up one year 20 pounds too bulky for his own good.
One would think that the organization would lay out a plan for those under contract for the summer months, or even plan to have a face-to-face meeting once a month. They are still employees, and if management wants to check up on them, that’s hardly a labor dispute in the making.
But assuming no one was offering guidance, if Greene couldn’t look at who got drafted, and see the writing on the wall, he may be less clever than I thought. Once the draft was done, he should have been in the gym launching a thousand threes a day instead of putting on mass.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Oct 7, 2010 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
There's a lot of truth in this
You have to see your opening and do what you can to fill it. It was pretty obvious to me and everyone else that that opening was at SF. At least by June it was obvious.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Oct 7, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah the first thing that popped into my head was the Bibby thing too
I also remember reading stories about teams always telling Richard Hamilton he needed to add more weight and he would lift weights and do everything else in the offseason but then when he would get into training camp he lost a lot of the muscle mass each year after all the running involved with playing schrimages. One summer his old high school coach and him decided on their own to basically say “screw it, let’s just work on conditioning” and went the opposite direction and he seemed to really benefit from taking the reigns himself.
Kind of rambly there. I guess I just have a hard time seeing the line between when to give guidance, when in fact a team really even is able to know exactly what it wants from a player (other than working hard obviously) and when it is up to the player to figure it out.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
I feel that for young players, it's more important during the off-season
to learn the mental aspects of playing the game rather than the physical aspects. Learn how to read the game and to play it rather than getting into game shape.
Do our coaches give homework in the off-season? Like after a few weeks break, send the young players isolation highlights of their game on DVD? (e.g: Donte only gets Donte iso’s. Miscues, highlights, him not making the run he should.)
Using a telestrator (you know, that thing where commentators draw squiggly lines all over the court), the coaches highlight the player’s decision making in a certain situation (on offense or defense) and draw out for the player what their opponent does and what they need to do to combat it.
Then the player goes out to the gym / court and try and work on that into his game. Next week, a new DVD with a new thing to work on shows up. And so on until training camp.
During training camp, the coaches can immediately see who has really been working on the homework and who hasn’t. Coz, if you’re making the same mistakes as the coaches highlighted on the DVDs, you’re either A)unteachable, B)lazy or C)both
This.
Do our coaches give homework in the off-season? Like after a few weeks break, send the young players isolation highlights of their game on DVD?
This just made me think of Michael Vick when he admitted he would take video home from practice that the Falcon coaches asked him to watch on his own time and he just let all the videos pile up in his car.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
The videos only had humans fighting.
Not to Vick’s liking.
This.
by elfboy_ on Oct 7, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of dog fighting, just started rereading The Dog Fighter
fictional noval about an American drifting through Baja in the 1940s who ends up actually fighting trained dogs (pit bulls) for money. Insanely graphic but good stuff.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
Confusion:......skim milk vs protein shakes...
There are definately some confused gusty winds blowing over arco last couple of days. I totally aggree, there is total miscommunication between the staff and young kings. Last season donte could be seen banging down low with Amare stoudamire one night and try to blanket kobe with his improved defense the next night. I am just assuming that he liked bumping and grinding that comes with being a good defender and decided to put on some weight to hold his own against the likes of Amare’s. I think Donte came to conclusion on his own that its better to put on some weight and go after the 4 spot as omri had 3 locked. May be Donte overthought himself in beleiving that he could fight landry for 4 spot next year. THen all these big men being drafted unfoiled his master plan. Now he is in no man’s land. Can’t play 2 and 3 spots. 4 is not posibility.
What does he DO? Sad Sad story….
Dont UNDERESTIMATE your shakes and milks………!!!!!!
No Man's Land
I think that is a good description for Donte as a player.
My impression from articles I have read in the past is that most players do not get a ton of guidance about what to work on in the off season. They get general guidelines about the direction of the team. Organizations tend to speak in general terms about wanting to improve aspects of play at positions.
It has to be hard to provide guidance to a player like Donte who has shown flashes, but has not consistantly done anything great. Plus, for an organization like the Kings right now with so much roster turn over, they really don’t know what they have or need.
I sense that there is more to this than just an extra 20 lbs.
Donte says he’s down to 244 now. Battier is listed as 6-8 220, LeBron is 250, Artest is 260, Odom is 6-10 230, so even if Donte’s best weight is 230-235, how much is 9-14 lbs really going to affect his game, right now. By the time the season starts, Donte’s going to drop another 5-10 pounds, just because of all the PT and running.
I guess, if there is a communications problem that’s serious, but I’m more concerned about the way PW is handling this in the media. I get the impression he thinks he’s the next Phil Jackson, when it comes to using the press to motivate his players. But, so far, I don’t think he’s even close.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Oct 7, 2010 2:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The guys you mentioned have completely different builds than Greene
They’re oak trees, he’s a willow. He should have known better.
You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think. – Dorothy Parker
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Oct 7, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really think Donte is that much different than JT?
JT may be a little wider in the chest area, but certainly Donte is no bean pole like Whiteside.
I didn’t mean to imply that Donte was in talent pool as those players. Only that there are plenty of defensive players at the 3, who are in the 225-260 weight class. And, I can’t believe that 10-15 lbs of upper body muscle is going to reduce Donte’s lateral quickness to the point where he can’t defend the 3.
And, at 6-11, I don’t see many 2’s that Donte can really defend even a 225. He just can’t cut that quickly. During VSL he came off an screen just below the right side FT line extended, and couldn’t make the cut to the rim until he almost got to the baseline.
I think that PW knows what he wants from Donte, but what he wants might not suit Donte’s body style or game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think JT could weigh 270 with his frame.
My guess is, as he gets older and fills out (as we do), he’ll probably play closer to 270 than 250.
As for Greene, he’s built more wiry, but even at 230, it’d be silly to have him chase 2s around. Greene is going to make his bread at small forward, or he’s not going to make it at all. Donté is going to need to be lean and strong in order to stay in the league, there are too many guys to whom bulk comes naturally. His knee becoming an issue could be a clear sign that it’s not meant to be.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
GBV! GBV! GBV!
Just went to the original line up show this past week at the Warfield. Never thought I’d see a GBV reference on Sactown Royaly. Cheers!
260
sounds like it’s way too heavy for someone who isn’t quick on his feet like Donte. I was at the game and to be honest he looked pretty slow, I will be there today as well to get another look at these guys. Unless your going to be banging your body down low and trying to snatch up every rebound you can then I don’t believe gaining all that weight is a good idea. He needs to be going after every rebound though, In the 10 minutes i seen of him it didn’t seem like he tried to rebound a single ball. And it doesn’t help that he can’t hit shots. He has a lot to work on.
Whoever said Donte wasn't quick?
He was guarding Kobe last year.
The guy is 6’ 11". To expect him to stay 220 is crazy.
Staying at 220 would be crazy.
Almost as crazy as 260.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Hes not that quick..
Just because he guarded Kobe pretty good does not mean he’s quick. He’s got about 5 inches on Kobe so he can give him a little more space than someone like Tyreke. 260 is an extra 40 pounds, thats alot more weight to be carrying around, whats the use of gaining all that weight if your still going to float around shooting threes and not rebounding?
Just a quick question for anyone who may know..
Back around 2000, how much did CWebb weigh? Back before he seriously hit the iron and really had hops. I remember the Jazz series, or the “We’re here to stay” series, and CWebb was bouncing around and could really slam.
It's the Giganté Greene Show
Quick, send in the stunt double –

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
........
Players’ goals in the summer is usually getting stronger and improving. Donte probably just really wanted to get bigger and he didnt think about anything else but improving. i think he truly thought he would be better te bigger he got. look at lebron. hes huge but hes naturally really fast.
Donte would be fine at 235-240
I’m not worried about him putting in work in the weight room.
We should be more concerned about the guys who need to spend more time in the weight room.
Remember the last combine, where Boogie didn’t post a bench number.
Also, Hassan already looks more buffed than JT.
In regards to Marcus playing with the starters, just part of the audition.
Let us not forget
It was also Reggie Theus or Kenny Natt that tried switch Donte from SF to PF then back to SF. Donte’s development has been mishandled since he has been a King
summer player management the responsibility of the dir of player personnel?
i believe that would be the cringe-worthy quoting jerry reynolds who has had that role a long time for the kings
The problem as I see it is that Donte's natural position is a 3/4 hybrid F similar to Rashard Lewis.
The thing is, the Kings have a bigger need at the 3 than they do at the 4. Donte is caught in a numbers game, and probably will be traded by the end of the year to clear up some of the logjam.
The question is do the Kings pick up the option for Donte, or do they let him twist in the wind and not pick up his 4th season? Questions abound, but I think in the end Donte’s option will be picked up so the Kings can trade him.
Oh well. Have fun somewhere else Doratio Kane. It was nice having you while it lasted.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's not a problem to be a hybrid
….when you are a bench player. In fact, it’s an advantage. If JT plays well with Cousins, I see DG staying and continuing to develop with C. Landry and Dalembert leaving. This year will tell.
by tricky bastard on Oct 8, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
It does seem that the next step after being in PW's doghouse is a trip to the pound,
so I won’t disagree with your conclusion. But, I would say that I think it would be a shame to give up on him this early. Especially, if they don’t bring back Sammy & Carl. They told Donte he had to work on his defense if he wanted PT, and he did. He’s shown some decent moves around the basket and he has that sweet stroke from outside.
Even 2 years ago I questioned whether or not JT should be a 4, and Kfan pointed out that since he could guard the 3 then he should be a 3. But, I agree with you that he could be a very good 3/4 hybrid. And, there’s nothing wrong with having that type of player. The real problem to me is that everyones looking for a scoring 3 to win the starting job. And, I’m not sure if that’s possible when you have Tyreke and Cousins as your primary weapons. That’s why I’ve liked Omri as the scoring 3 off the bench to take some of the load off Tyreke or fill in while Tyreke is on the bench.
Since Donte won’t see any time at the 2 this year, I think he can improve his rebounding, given enough time and proper direction. I don’t think Donte will ever be the slasher that Omri will, because of his height & foot speed. But, Donte could be a good off the ball cutter going to the basket, and if he get the ball inside 15 ft, he could be a excellent finisher at the rim.
At some point you have to stop molding the player to fit your needs in the offense, and fit the offense to the capabilities of the player. Using Wallace as an example, it would be a mistake to ask Wallace to play like Lewis.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
He would die miserably.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 9, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions

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