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Around SBN: Blake Griffin Slam Dunks: NBA Jam Style

Suns 103, Kings 89: Steve Nash Slices Through

You can't give Steve Nash a mousehole and expect him not to whip through it and wreak havoc. On Friday, the Kings gave Steve Nash gaping hole after gaping hole, and he wrecked the defense. Sacramento couldn't capitalize on its size advantage on the other end, and the Suns won 103-89.

The Kings countered Nash in two ways: with Beno Udrih and with a zone defense. Did it work? 1) Ha!, 2) Occasionally, and only that. The Kings also seemed to switch on every screen (almost a necessity with Beno guarding Nash), so the two-time MVP was able to exploit mass confusion in the Sacramento defense.

The result: for Nash, 28 points on absurd 13-18 shooting, 14 assists and just two turnovers. For the Suns: 103 points in about 86 possessions, an offensive rating of 120.

That's right: the final score doesn't indicate that this was a case of the Suns offense click-click-clicking, but that's exactly what happened. The pace was rather slow. I assure you that had everything to do with the Kings being slow to get into an offense much of the game, resulting often in challenged shots. (There were also a ton of offensive rebounds, which contributes to fewer possessions. The Kings had 21 offensive boards themselves.)

Nash was the only starter who went off. From my vantage point (couch, suburban Sacramento), it looked as if Tyreke Evans and Omri Casspi did good jobs denying Jason Richardson the ball in open spaces -- Evans and O.C. cheated over (as they always do), but J-Rich, a fantastic scorer, never really made them pay. The Suns' starting big men also struggled to get much going, and Grant Hill was a non-factor with either Evans or Casspi on him the bulk of the time. This was not a can't-guard-the-small-forward problem. It was a can't-guard-Steve-Nash problem. A problem every team has (Nash's career playoff line: 17/9 on 47% shooting), but one that simply killed the Kings on this night.

Star-divide

The Kings also had a can't-guard-the-bench problem. Hakim Warrick, opposite Darnell Jackson, Carl Landry and DeMarcus Cousins (as Jason Thompson didn't see a second of action), was ultra-effective with 18 points on 6-8 shooting. Channing Frye, typically marked by Cousins or Samuel Dalembert, hit a couple threes. Josh Childress went for 10 in his 25 minutes, and had two straight cuts to the rim resulting in free throws that essentially ended hopes for a Kings comeback late in the game. (The plays also disqualified Cousins with his fifth and sixth fouls.)

Cousins was productive, with nine points, seven rebounds and zero turnovers in 21 minutes. But the two Childress fouls late in the fourth were indicative of the team's defensive problems, as the zone that worked fairly well against the Goran Dragic-led Suns simply crumbled under Nash's assault. Cousins was sucking air as Childress slid through, and, after reacting too slowly, all DMC could do to stop an uncontested lay-up was reach.

Paul Westphal teased a change ahead of the Phoenix game. The only lineup change was that Antoine Wright played (9-1/2 minutes) and Thompson didn't. Not exactly the change this fan had been hoping for. Donte Greene also didn't play, and Luther Head didn't take a shot in three minutes.

Positives, positives: the Kings were much better with Evans on the floor. In fact, pulling Evans for a rest in the fourth, with the Kings down two after trailing by double-digits, essentially ended the game. Phoenix went on a 13-4 run in three minutes Evans sat, spreading the Suns' lead to 11. The Kings wouldn't get closer than 10 the rest of the way.

Wait, that was supposed to be a positive. How did it turn into a negative? Most superstars, if they take a break in the second half, do so from late in the third until early in the fourth. Theoretically, the ends of quarters typically take longer to finish due to foul shots (from teams in the bonus) and potential timeouts (to set up quarter-ending plays). There is also a brief intermission between quarters. So if your player sits the last minute of the third and the first two minutes of the fourth, in theory he'll have a much longer rest opportunity than if he sits for three game minutes in the middle of the fourth. Nash, for example, sat with 1:42 left in the third, and rested for the first 3-1/2 minutes of the fourth, as well.

I don't know Westphal's thinking on this, and I don't aim to question or challenge him on it. Perhaps he thought Evans could play the entire second half, but that the up-and-down flavor of a few wild possessions early in the fourth gassed him. That certainly could have been the case. It just stuck out that when Westphal pulled Evans with the Kings down two (they were actually down three with Dalembert headed to the line), it seemed like it was too late in the game to rest your superstar. The result seemed to bear it out. (Had Evans played the entire fourth, he would have played 45 minutes in the game, something he's never done in regulation under Westphal.)

More positives: just 11 turnovers for the Kings, with no King earning more than two. Just one foul for Evans, whose recent foul trouble I cannot begin to attempt to explain. Carl Landry, the invisible man at times, was solid with 20 points and 11 rebounds. Udrih did what he could to give back to Nash what Nash gave to Udrih, which was a beating. Beno was particularly effective at the beginning of the game; he's a confident fellow, and it shows.

One thing I didn't like from Beno: near the bitter end of the game, Evans seemed to be coming over to pick up Nash in the halfcourt, but Beno yelled him off, so 'Reke went back to Richardson in the corner. If memory serves, Nash went screen-roll, got the switch, and shredded the Kings' defender. With one foul and literally nothing but a game to lose, Evans ought to be on players like Nash. There's nothing Beno can do on defense that Evans can't already do better. The lovely steal Evans had on Nash earlier in the game was a beautiful example. Beno wouldn't be able to do that against an 8th-grade girls team. He just doesn't have the physical gifts. Give 'Reke a chance on the faster, craftier star.

One more Beno note: Cousins blew a rotation on defense, leading to a foul. Beno turned to the bench and went ballistic. Casspi also had a play where he looked somewhere between offended and flummoxed regarding Cousins' positioning. Given that it seems we'll be talking DMC today, I figured it was worth pointing out.

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Paul Westphal teased a change ahead of the Phoenix game. The only lineup change was that Antoine Wright played (9-1/2 minutes) and Thompson didn’t. Not exactly the change this fan had been hoping for.

Just curious Z, what lineup change were you hoping for? Cisco starting, with Beno off the bench?

by chenp22 on Nov 13, 2010 6:24 AM PST reply actions  

Actually

Garcia in the starting five in place of Beno or Omri.

by Tom Ziller on Nov 13, 2010 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't figure out his thinking on JT

One thing we do know is that JT will bust his ass 100% of the time on the floor. Garcia’s another guy who plays his ass off. Combined minutes for these two? 18.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 13, 2010 6:42 AM PST up reply actions  

JT is probably already gone

They would not play him if they were already hammering out a deal, right?

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Nov 13, 2010 7:09 AM PST up reply actions  

It's just completely weird that he got the DNP

Especially since he’s been tooting his horn about him throughout the season so far.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 7:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 13, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

JT doesn't match up that well with Phx

and since the Kings decidd to play Phoenix’s game rather than pounding their players down low . . . . it makea peeeeeerfect sense.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Insane?

Not at all, TZ. I saw this coming, and proposed a 10 game benching of JT twice yesterday to facilitate cohesion. Fans should not confused by this. JT is playing only 15 minutes a game, shooting 37%. I don’t have recite more numbers. The team sputters whenever he is on the floor. The only thing he has done better than DJ this year is rebound. And we have rebounds, theoretically, covered with DMC and Sammy D.

I just hope PW has the gumption to stick with this rotation. DJ is a better scoring spark and post defender, he runs the floor, and doesn’t foul as much. The fact that a guy hustles and has contagious work ethic is not enough to be included in an NBA rotation. To quote the legendary Bill Walton “Do not confuse effort with effectiveness.”

Regarding a trade, we can only hope. There can’t be many suitors. Pookey is holding out for T. Prince, which I find amusing. While Prince is a really good player, that deal will never happen (see salary and Pistons GM). My dream trade is JT (+ pick) for Jonny Flynn:

Geoff: “Ricky Rubio is a Hall of Famer in my judgement.”
Kahn: “Yes, I know.”
Geoff: “Jonny Flynn seems like a redundancy.”
Kahn: “Yes I know.”
Geoff: Jason Thompson could be a star in your triangle offense.
Kahn: “Yes I know.”
Geoff: I’ll have my team draw up the papers and for Flynn JT swap and fax to you in the morning.
Kahn: Fax machines are confusing. Swap meets are fun. I like paper. Wait, what are we talking about?

I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]

by bench_blob on Nov 13, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

We do need a better guard to pair with Reke, but don't hate on JT like he beat your sister.

Ya we can get something for him that helps us more now, but you don’t need to be hyperbolic.

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Nov 13, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree and disagree regarding JT

While you say that there are “theoretically” other rebounders on this team, the truth is that Thompson still has the 2nd best rebouning rate on this team, behind only Dalembert…not bad when you consider his minutes out on the perimeter at the 3. Now, when you throw in Dalembert’s shot blocking and Cousins’ offensive potential, I agree that there are better options than JT, but I still think that he fills a role.

Oh, and for clarification, it’s not like this team has hummed along offensively or defensively when Thompson is out of the game, so your statement that the team sputters whenever he is on the floor is a litte one-sided and biased, don’t you think?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

He’s not the problem, but he is part of the problem.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

They are all part of the problem

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Reke'd for one of the funniest skits this season, and the picture was perfect.

I have been a proponent of the Kings needing a playmaker other than Beno for some time so this is something I would love.

On the other hand, I’ve also been a proponent of waiting to trade any of the bigs, until we were sure whether or not Landry or Dalembert were returning or not.

But, if there is even the slightest truth about all the dissention in the locker room, I think we have to act now rather than wait. If the players are unhappy and the team continues to lose, I don’t see either Sammy or Carl wanting to return no matter what we offer them. And, although the new CBA may reduce their potential offers, they will get other offers.

So, while other may feel that this is just another of your already well know posts about JT, I think your on the right track. Although, I’m not sure that Minny gives up a #6 pick in the draft for JT, no matter how good they think Rubio will be.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

We are talking about Kahn here . . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed.

I don’t hate Beno like I used to (ugh that first year of his contract), and think he’s servicable, and further that he’d make an ideal backup pg/sg. But it just seems like we need someone bigger/faster/stronger in there with Tyreke in the backcourt for defensive reasons.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Beno has been solid offensively

but his D has been truly wretched.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

That's rational

If there’s dissension in the locker room, deal JT – one of the best locker room and hustle guys on the team.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 13, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he meant "deal him if you can get something that will help the team win"

which would, in theory, make everyone happier.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 13, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he meant "deal him to cure the locker room dissension"

But I never quite know what HT is getting at.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 13, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I think I'm right and you're wrong.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 13, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea , I'm pretty cryptic sometimes

I never mentioned JT being traded. What I said if you read it closely was

So, while other may feel that this is just another of your already well know posts about JT, I think your on the right track.

All I was referring to is his suggestion that we add someone like Flynn. And, I followed that up with

I’m not sure that Minny gives up a #6 pick in the draft for JT

My point was that to eliminate the bad vibes on the team, they might have to move someone now, rather than wait. Who that someone is I could care less as long as it’s not Tyreke or Cousins. All I want is someone to facilitate the offense, so it runs smoother than it has. So, we can win more and release the pressure that’s building up in the locker room.

Because, as I said

If the players are unhappy and the team continues to lose, I don’t see either Sammy or Carl wanting to return no matter what we offer them

And, I still believe we need to resign one or even both of them.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

If it's true

That some of this dissension was occurring even before our losing streak, then I’m not sure how much winning is going to relieve the pressure. Especially when you’re dealing a guy who’s really not a locker room issue.

Thanks for clarifying.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 14, 2010 5:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Just because you saw something coming

doesn’t make it any less insane. (At least when it comes to J.T.)

by Tom Ziller on Nov 13, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

PW did what the players and fans had been asking for, he shortened the rotation

There hasn’t been much difference between Jackson and JT’ s performance. Except JT has a few more rebounds and fouls, and Jackson has a higher shooting percentage, more points and plays withing himself.

On the other hand, Wright hasn’t made a basket in 4 games, and Head has only been able to score around the basket.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

exactly

we can’t complain about a shortened rotation just ’cuz we love ALL our players

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Nov 13, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what I was hoping for too, but wasn't sure what others were thinking.

I think that Beno can run the offense off the bench, and give us his scoring. Cisco provides the defense and shooting at the 2. Give him a shot I say.

by chenp22 on Nov 13, 2010 6:44 AM PST up reply actions  

The difference with Landry

He was not playing at the top of and outside the arc last night. He has been posted there in past games and would distribute the ball. He still plays the high elbow, but at least he is closer to the paint and can get in when needed. Also, they rolled him to the basket a few times which was nice to see.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Nov 13, 2010 7:49 AM PST reply actions  

Yup

He’s was noticeably posting up and playing inside more, and it was because he was making more of an effort to work for position. The last few games, he’s just been content to receive it at the high post.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think it was just not working for it

The play sets had him up high. The Kings have set locations for each player and it did not include him down low. That seems to be changed now.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Nov 13, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah it was probably a combination of both.

That’s why I can’t really be too hard on the team for this game, since I saw some good things in this game.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

That was the key difference in Landry this game

With the Suns small frontcourt, Landry was 6-7 at the rim and only took 3 shots outside of 10ft.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

is it just me

or does going to grecee make you uglier

I know i don't know it all... its just what my parents call me

by Mr. Know it all on Nov 13, 2010 8:45 AM PST reply actions  

The lack of cohesion is alarming.

Teammates irritated with Cuz. Cuz getting in shouting matches with coaches. Players not knowing their roles. Reke is too selfish and, apparently, not held accountable. Petrie’s picks of JT and Hawes both look useless now. JT may be gone. Donte is on the pine. No one seems to understand what the hell PW is doing. The Kings are on the border of being a wreck, Clippers style. Will it be turned around? Perhaps, but the Kings overall look very lost and unorganized. They seem to be poorly run and organized at the moment, and it’s very, very alarming.

by amonk81 on Nov 13, 2010 9:33 AM PST reply actions  

"Clippers style'?

Whoa now fella, lets not get crazy.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the team is addressing some of those issues

Reke’s ability to distribute is getting better all the time, 9 assists last night, and if he had guys performing around him more consistently such statistics would continue. He isn’t just going blind to the rack as much. He has worked on the dump off which shows his ability to mature in that area (i.e. he can recognize mid drive that someone else has a better opportunity to finish at the rim). And they talk to Reke, they just don’t announce it like PW alluded to in his statement. I analogize the good child/ bad child situation. Last year was such a breath of fresh air for the team with his presence that the little stuff he got away with was more to do with how terrible everyone else was. This year the dynamic is different.

Read the Bee’s piece on DMC. That will clear up this confusion. He is emotional, but at the same time has a great relationship with his coaches and has endeared himself to them. Certain reports are blow out of proportion.

The draft picks of Hawes and JT can’t be labeled as useless picks 4 and 3 years later, respectively. We had a chance to get better at those positions regardless of what we had drafted previously. Furthermore, hindsight is unfair to the draft process and GP is a stud in that department. Without being stupid and cherry picking players we know are good now from the 2007 draft who else were we supposed to pick besides Hawes—similarly for JT, in 2008.

The Clippers….get out of here.

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Nov 13, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

In the JT draft, in 2008

there were a glut of big man all forecast to go in the middle of the first round. The Kings auditioned them all, IIRC.

These players picked after JT are players I would rather have:

12 Jason Thompson
17 Roy Hibbert
18 JaVale McGee
19 J. J. Hickson
21 Ryan Anderson
22 Courtney Lee
24 Serge Ibaka
25 Nicolas Batum
26 George Hill

I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]

by bench_blob on Nov 13, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

yes, that is what is called cherry picking.

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Nov 13, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

So the next guy was 5 picks down?

A lot of stupid GMs then.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I think what we can take away from this game

Reke is learning how to play at different speeds right now as well as trying to find guys out of the double team. TZ alluded to it somewhat regarding the slow pace, but Reke was playing at a much slower speed than we were used to the last few games; I seem to remember Westphal telling him to speed up his game earlier. It’s probably why Reke had fewer turnovers as well as less fouls, as he tends to get a couple offensive fouls during the game.

The only thing I found problematic was that he would hold on to the ball too long trying to do this, when all he had to do was swing the ball to the other side of the court, and make the defense more reactive to what they’re doing. Sometimes it leads to an open shot, or sometimes the hockey assist. I will say though, that it’s not all him; sometimes he may do this and leads to a bad shot by another teammate . Anyways, he needs to learn how to make the simple pass every once in a while.

And he needs to start using the jumper more. Not frequently, but more than he’s been doing. You didn’t do all those reps in the summer for nothing, young fella.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

7 seconds or less: dichotomy of the pace spectrum

Phoenix (D’Antoni version) would end their offensive possession in that time frame. It seems that the current Kings team does not initiate their motion until there are 7 seconds left (dribble, dribble look, wait, start the play).

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Well when you say it like that

It really doesn’t sound very good.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 13, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, but we've been here before haven't we

Casspi’s shooting reeked. Free throw percentage again was pornographic as was the field goal percentage which actually was in the hard-core range while free throws were soft-core. And against the Suns no less. And did I see three consecutive offensive rebounds followed by two consecutive misses? I know they were 0-3 on at least one possession.

While having few turnovers is desirable, the only state that really matters is this: W
I think what could have helped was having someone fast like Pooh Jeter on Nash as sort of a sacraficial defender to make sure someone was in front of him even if it meant taking fouls and eventually fouling out.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.

by Natomaser on Nov 13, 2010 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

what is the hard-core range for field goal percentage?

are we shooting a porn and nobody told me?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 13, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

From the Natomaser Unabridged Guide to Basketball to Porn Equivalencies:

Field Goal Percentage / Adult Film Value
60+ Boogie Nights
51-60 Valley of the Dolls
41-50 Caligula
31-40 Deep Throat
21-30 Barnyard Babes
0-20 HippyFarm Orgy

Stay Thirsty My Friends

WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.

by Natomaser on Nov 13, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup

It’s called “One Night with the Kings: a sactownroyalty production.” casting auditions begin on Monday.

by Merickel on Nov 13, 2010 10:59 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Why not

pound the ball in the paint when Cousins is on the floor? It appeared to me nobody on the Suns could stop Cousins down low so why didnt PW have more plays ran for Cousins on the block when he was in the game? I didnt see the point to taking out Dalembert late in the 4th if your not going to go to Cousins more then they did, which was 1 play in the 4th.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

and when I say

Pound the paint down low, i mean.. POUND THE PAINT DOWN LOW! not Cousin shooting mid range shots(though he can make those shots) but I’d like to see Cousins backing up Frye then go to a hook shot and draw some fouls. I mean, considering its PHOENIX and we have a size advantage over them, we did exactly what they wanted us to do which was play the perimeter game.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 9:55 AM PST reply actions  

Also I'd like to point out

on the Pick N Roll with DMC and Tyreke opposing teams always double Tyreke leaving Cousins wide open and Tyreke rarely tries or has little success getting the ball to DMC. Several times last night i seen Cousins WIDE OPEN on the pick and roll and yes they’r playing the passing lanes to Cousins on the double team but it still leaves Cousins wide open for a Lob pass slam dunk. And if you watch DMCs reaction he kinda throws his hands up like " what else do u want me to do, their not guarding me, pass the ball?" I know its easier said then done but I have seen little improvement in that department since the start of the season.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 10:03 AM PST reply actions  

Good points bench -- the kings were guilt of many sins

and they need a good cleansing. where is Father Damien when you need him?

Stay Thirsty My Friends

WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.

by Natomaser on Nov 13, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Good Point RTB

Cousins establishes good position. The entry pass is there to be made. The guard, Beno and Tyreke especially, needs to make it. So far I feel like Cousins and Tyreke have developed zero chemistry playing together. We we will not become a good team until that changes.

I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]

by bench_blob on Nov 13, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, since the start of Tyreke's career.

But, to be fair, that’s not what he was asked to do last year. Because as Mustang has pointed out to me more than once, our bigs last season, weren’t of DeMarcus’ caliber. What is encouraging this season, is the number of times Evans has penetrated and found his bigs for a dunk. That never ever happened last season.

So, I’ll give Evans some lee way for right now. But, I do wish we had a PG who could run the pick and roll better. Going out on a limb here, but I think the biggest mistake the Kings mad last season as far as the players go, was getting rid of Sergio Rodriguez. He was the best pure ball handler the Kings have had since Jason Williams.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Is Sergio even in the league?

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

He's returned to Spain

On June 2, after 5 years in the NBA, Rodriguez signed a 3-year contract with Real Madrid.

He’s their starting PG.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

That makes me so sad.

I really liked Sergio. Seemed like he made the difference in a more than a few games with his playmaking.

by PurpleLoco on Nov 13, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with the point about Tyreke's passing. He really is passing more often and better.

I know that you questioned even if would be able to add passing to the low post to his game or if he could do it at all. It was a fair question. I did want to hold out for better low post finishers and think we are seeing that now.

I liked Sergio and felt he brought a spark off of the bench. The offense ground to a halt last year way to often. I thought Jeter would take on that role, but he is not getting any play. I would like to see a consistent second unit that brings energy, but we have not even seen a consistent starting unit yet.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Nov 13, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Everything Tyreke is doing now he can do from the SG

If you watch the 1st possession of the 4th quarter, the Suns stepped up their defense and doubled Tyreke in the backcourt and he almost didn’t get over the timeline. And, he barely got it over on the next possession also. The point was that they doubled Tyreke whenever he had the ball in the 4th and he seldom gave up the ball right away. He’s not selfish, he just has a primary scorers mentality. Which is really really great late in the possession after you’ve tried to run your normal sets. We don’t need it in the beginning of the set because he uses up too much time, and we don’t have time to really probe the defense before someone has to throw up a poor shot.

On the other hand, Beno gives up the ball before he crosses the 3pt arc, on a majority of the times he brings up the ball. And, he usually gives it up to a big at the top of the key or beyond the arc. There is no attacking the defense or probing in Beno’s game. He’s a one trick pony ( stop and pop ) who’s a defensive liability.

Sergio was a spark, because he was an outstanding dribbler and could dribble in, around and back out of the paint, looking to make the pass. He forced the defense to move, and created open shots for others. He wasn’t a great 3pt shooter, and he wasn’t a shutdown defender but he’s only 24 this year, and had the potential to be better.

But, he’s gone now, and I still think the Kings will need someone with his skill soon. Pooh was one of my standouts in summer league, but only as a backup. His size will always keep him from being a starter. We need another Jason Williams more than we need another SF.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with your thinking

I think that Tyreke’s backcourt partner (at this point I’m done trying to categorize who is the PG and who is the SG) has to be a very capable defender that has the ability to involve his big men on the offensive end of the floor. Any ideas?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I know who I'd like to have but it's too early to know which teams wants to make a move

I not sure how many teams feel that their desperately in need of moving someone to get a big which is all we really have to trade except cap space. If I have time, I’ll investigate some.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Names that spring to mind for me (with no regards to availability)

Jameer Nelson, Jrue Holiday. Again, I see neither as available, but I see these as the kind of guys that would potentially make for lethal backcourt partners.

Ray Felton signed a two year deal with the Knicks that will have him making $7.6 million next year. If the Knicks had to clear some space for ’Melo, would you see him as a good backcourt partner with Tyreke? Of course, neither Felton or Evans are great perimeter shooters.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Kyle Lowry? George Hill?

Mulva? Gipple?

Delores!!!

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Or taking it in another direction -

Cousins and to-be determined replicate the high-low post mechinations of Vlade/C-Webb, meaning that your guards need only be adequate to above average passers (like Bibby and Christie), so now you can really focus on the defensive aspect. Dahntay Jones? Aaron Afflalo?

And one more from my earlier musings, just in case nbrans is looking in – Jeff Teague?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Teague isn't available

Simply because he’s the “future” for Atlanta at Point Guard once Mike Bibby is gone in two years. He might even steal the starting spot from Bibby within those two years. Atlanta would have to get a young point guard in return. Also, Teague is a score first kind of guy.

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

To clarify -

I wasn’t really taking the availability of these guys into consideration – I was focusing more on the type of player.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

In that case

I’d add Eric Gordon (even less realistic) and others like DJ Augustine, Eric Maynor!!!, and Courtney Lee.

After watching OKC last night though, I can’t shake the fact that we need more grade A talent. We’re close, but not quite there.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Or.. (I'm kinda half serious with this)

Ricky Rubio?

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

no

you are not.

(or at least tell me you are not. please)

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I am

Good handler, good passer, good size, supposedly good defender that may be able to hit the open 3. He won’t demand a lot of shots and could just concentrate in moving the ball.

Yes, I’m kinda serious. Of course, it would take a lot to get him.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Hehe

Just an idea. And it has nothing to do with those dreamy eyes, well groomed hair, or with those young but well defined biceps.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep, that's why I didn't list them

But, disregarding whether or not it’s possible, mine are
Top tier:
Andre Miller- vet to work with Evans
DJ Augustin

2nd tier:
Jameer Nelson
Raymon Felton

3rd tier:
Jose Calderon
Eric Bledsoe
Mike Conley

4th tier:
Chris Duhon
T. J Ford

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just not sure about any of these guys.

We need to be adding more true talent and most of these guys are kind of average. Most of the really talented guys aren’t available. That may mean we have to use our top pick on a highly rated point guard.

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 13, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

What do you consider real talented guys.

Everyone I mentioned has a high assist rate and except for Calderon, they all have TS% of over 50%. I’m not looking for Primary scorers or players to take over games. We already have guys like Tyreke, Cousins & Casspi, who will do that for us in the future.

I’m looking at players who can run an offense and not turnover the ball. Most are either quick or experienced enough not to be a liability on defense. And, if they can contribute 10ppg that’s icing on the cake. Beno is only giving us 15 ppg and probably costing us more than that with his defense.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'll admit that maybe I'm not quite sure.

But the guys who are probably available just seem kind of underwhelming. IMO, we need to be adding elite players everywhere we can. I’m sure you agree with that.

That doesn’t necessarily mean elite scorers, but they can be very creative distributors, or good defenders or guys who can shoot from long distance.

I’m just not sure that guys Augustin and Felton and Calderon are going to help that much, so they’re not worth going after, since they’d require us giving up something to get them.

Unfortunately, the rebuild is gonna take time, so I guess what I would be thinking is that, assuming we have a top draft pick again, one of top priorities should be a point guard.

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 13, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

it occurs to me

that if Greene and JT aren’t going to pan out as legitimate backups, and Cisco can’t outperform Beno as our 2nd guard, we’re further off than I thought we were at the beginning of the season.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Cisco is outperforming Beno.

Not to say that Beno has been bad, but Cisco just gives us more and should be starting.

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 13, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting list

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

You are truly a master of your domain

But to stay on topic – I believe, rightly or wrongly, that acquiring “a true point guard” will introduce a lot of media adversity in the form of “see, we told ya!”.

Further, I would like to see the Kings acquire a defender/distributor more than just a dribbler/distributor. Havng 3 point capability would be nice too. I am more of a James Harden, Courtney Lee, OJ Mayo advocate than the Kyle Lowry, Darren Collison type.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Backcourt stoppers are a myth

The way NBA teams run their guards off of screens and in the pick and roll, the only way to defend is with a team defense (rotations) and a big who can help on the Pick & Roll. The guard needs speed and quickness to catch up and reacquire after the big shows and stretches out the play.

Cisco is shooting 50% from the field and 41% from 3, and how’s that working out for us? We can’t afford to have our guards giving up the dribble at the slightest sign of pressure. We’re putting the ball into the hands or our bigs away from the basket, and their taking bad shots, trying to create off the dribble, or turning it over with bad passes.

Yes, it would be nice to have a player that could do everything, from dribble, to shoot for a high percentage, and defend. But, unless your willing to give up the farm or have the #1 pick in the draft, your probably not going to find one. I’ll take skill 1 & 3 and be happy until the shooting comes around. If we get someone who can get the ball to DMC so he can score in the paint, I don’t care if the PG ever scores.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

1 on 1 defenders are not quite the unicorn you cite

Nash is wonderful on offense, but he is a defensive liabiity – as are Kidd and D Fisher.

Rondo is a defensive, ball hawking, passing PG as an extreme example (that I would like for Tyreke to emulate a bit more).

Defense is a team concept but it needs to needs cogs to turn the wheel. Beno isn’t quick enough to stay with anyone, Cisco has performed well as a defender IMO.

The whole mess seems discordant. It is more than personal, on that we agree.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with your sentiment

I don’t think that most of the guys that I listed fit the bill as a true ball-dominant point guard. They are mostly guys that have shown the ability to play with and without the ball for their respective teams, and they are guys that have shown at least a willingness to defend.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, I do still disagree

Because your statement was that trying JT at the 3 was an indictment of his play at the 4-5. I still believe that the JT experiment at the 3 is more of an indictment of Omri, Donté and Antoine’s play at the 3.

Kind of a feeble attempt by you here. Frankly, anyone who has to go down the “I told you so” path is a bit of a douchebag, especially when they fail in the attempt.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

The old

“I told you so/ I guessed it right therefore I’m better than you” especial?

Unfortunately, we have too many of those around here now. Not only douchy but kinda sad.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I call it Colin-Cowherd-itis

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 13, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

just admit it pussy

i fucken nailed it. you not liking to be wrong is a feeble attempt to maintain credibilty stupid fucking cunt

by tricky bastard on Nov 13, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Bye now

Not for disagreeing with me, but for trollish behavior. You can always appeal to Ziller.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

yay

reke’d

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Group think mentality right there

/sarcasm

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

group think = not sounding like a Lakers fan

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Therefore

those who stupidly accuse others of group think around here are similar to douchy Lakers fans?

Possible

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I read you guys arguing about the smallest details of the randomest things

so that the accusations of ‘group think’ are pure comedy to me.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Funny to me too, Mookie

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

The on-site brawls

about Greene and JT in particular highlight the lack of group-think right now. Maybe, maybe, during the 20-5-5 run we had some groupthink of Tyreke > Curry, but that seemed appropriate

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, and for the record

I’ve never claimed to have any credibility – I certainly don’t see the need to attempt to maintain that which I do not possess.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

really

your post here is the kind of content this site is better off without imho

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

wow

way to prove that you’re not a douchebag. chasm’d

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 13, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Jrue Holiday would be nice

But likely unavailable. My lethal backcourt partner for Reke is Mayo.

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Evan Turner is more available than Jrue Holliday.

And I would like either, though Holliday is a proven defender and playmaker at the pro level.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Turner or Holiday likely aren't available.

Turner is having a slow start, but even with that slow start, he’s still putting up 9.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, 2.3 assists on 46.7% shooting. He’s also finally earned himself the starting spot

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, but of the two, Turner is "the more available"

Kind of like a Ferrari is more affordable than an Aston-Martin, or Shakira is more “do-able” than Megan Fox, all equally meaningless.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'd say Courtney Lee

but his numbers have taken a real downward turn since his rookie year.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

yes, I've come to think what we need is more of a point guard

Whether that comes through the draft or through trade, I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of point guards are available but there also seem to be some pretty good options in the draft. But it’s obviously way too early to be talking about that.

Whatever we do, the other guard needs to be able to pass, defend, not dominate the ball, and shoot from deep. Is that too much to ask from one player?

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 13, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I was at the game last night...

and it really disgusted me how much this team plays selfish basketball.

For goodness sakes guys…learn how to play help defense, stop shooting the fucking ball every single time you touch it, and stop bitching at each other on the court.

For (probably) the first time ever, I was embarrassed to be a Kings fan last night. It really pissed me off.

'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike

by Scott Coleman on Nov 13, 2010 10:19 AM PST reply actions  

I disagree

They need to hold each other accountable, I don’t think there’s been enough of that.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not hell but this container is filling up


and in just three lost games (the Laker game they played acceptably well).

But I will agree that disarray is the order of the day. Aykis is going to be chock full of B&U tomorrow. Donté isn’t playing. JT isn’t playing and is on the trade block. DMC has been fined and is a malcontent. Evans is a selfish Diva. Landry was expecting a premier SF pick up this summer. Practice was cancelled and replaced with counselling.

Did I leave anything out?

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 10:30 AM PST reply actions  

Yes
Did I leave anything out?

Its nothing a three game win streak won’t cure. Last night was a small step in the right direction. Have faith Kings fans!

I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]

by bench_blob on Nov 13, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't see it as a step in any direction

over the last 4 games our defense has been better and we’ve been able to hold our opponents to below their seasonal scoring average.

But, our offense has been less than effective all season, and not being able to score more than 91 points in 3 straight games against opponent that include 2 of the worst defensive teams in the league, makes me believe that his is more than just a slump.

We shot at 75% at the rim and below 33% from every other range. Yet we took 45 attempts from long 2’s and 3’s, including 9 by our centers and pf’s. And, we only took 20 shots at the rim including 7 by our starting backcourt. Does anyone else see this as backwards besides me?

We had the advantage of size down low, but the Suns took the same amount of shots at the rim as we did and scored 2 more baskets. We had the opporunity to hammer the Suns down low, and instead we continued to be the Jumpshooting team that we’ve be for years now.

I have faith in God and America, but I haven’t any faith that the King even know how to run any kind of offense other than one that contains NO ball movement.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

with Detroit , New Jersey and New York coming into town the Kings have an opportunity of putting some W’s on the board. I’m still optimistic with the direction the Kings are going long term and I have a feeling Geoff Petrie will shake things up with a trade before Christmas. With Darnell Jackson being as consistent as hes been and with Sam, DMC, Carl, JT, Donte and Whiteside all fighting for minutes I wouldn’t be surprised to see somebody moved soon.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

Detroit has won 3 of their last 4 games, and their defense is much better than Pho or Mem.

And, NY & NJ, have records as good as ours.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh yes I totally agree.

 If the Kings can get smoked by the T-Wolves at home then anything can happen. But these next 3 home games is about as “easy” as the schedule is going to get for the Kings for some time. I would consider these “winnable” games but as you pointed out it could go either way.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

The whole DMC was fined thing?

That apparently happened over a month ago and the issue didn’t seem serious to me. Just taming the Mustang a bit as was to be expected.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

All the confusion

…and disarray falls on PW’s shoulders. The constant solid rotation made of quicksand and simply being out coached are obvious reasons. The Maloof’$ got what they paid for, the cheapest guy available (for good reason), and who is a corporate “Yes Man”.

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Nov 13, 2010 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

Is Saunders doing all that much better in Washington?

Rambis in Minnesota?

What head coach available at the time of Westphal’s hiring makes this team tangibly better? Would this team do a 180 today if the reins were handed over to Mario Elie?

I don’t disagree that the Kings sourced a coach out of the bargain bin. I don’t even disagree with the notion that Westphal has made mistakes along the way. What I do disagree with is the notion that there are a bunch of other coaches that could do a better job with this team. Only select number of coaches (Jackson, Sloan, Popovich, maybe a couple of others) could do any better with this team. The team is young, inexperienced, and still lacking in overall talent. A different coach does not solve the ills of this team.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

So if we cannot discuss the coach

because there are no better alternatives?

So if we have little to work with as far as trades go, we also shouldn’t critisize the players?

And to answer your question, I also think Rivers, Byron Scott, Skiles, Van Gundy, Karl and McMillan would probably do a better job.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Nov 13, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I never said that it couldn't be discussed - please show me where I said that.

For example, your bringing of your above-mentioned coaches to the discussion. Good list, and agreed that most of these coaches would do a better job than Westphal. I don’t see a coach that turns this team into a playoff contender, so I personally don’t see the need to spend millions of dollars for a few more wins.

I’ve said all along that Westphal is a transitional coach. I just think the thread post that I responded to lacked depth and substance, and I responded to it. My apologies if that insulted your sensibilities.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

As Xiane dropped in the other day to add

They are wringing their hands about Rick Adelman in Houston (2-6).

by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Kromeace criticized PW

and pointed at the fact that the Maloofs got him cheap, and you countered by asking whether there was/is a better alternative available and saying. That’s kind of closing the door for discussion, as I see it.

Kromeace didn’t even suggest that another coach should be hired now, he only said that what you buy is what you get.

My apologies if that insulted your sensibilities.

I asked an honest, critical question, without being remotely insulted. If that merits such a response, perhaps the comment on sensibilities is a matter of projection. But in any event, no appologies are needed.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Nov 13, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Not buying it
So if we cannot discuss the coach because there are no better alternatives?

I never said or insinutated that. This is all your projection.

So if we have little to work with as far as trades go, we also shouldn’t critisize the players?

I never said or insinutated that. This is all your projection.

Recapping, you attempted to call me out for instructing others on what they can and cannot say, all the while telling me what I can and cannot say. Epic fail.

Don’t try and put words in my mouth. It is already quite full with my own words and Geoff Petrie’s penis.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

That mental imagery will haunt me for some time

Kind of like having a Brittney Spears song stuck in your head.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 13, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

So maybe I should have added

“you are implying”, to avoid any misunderstanding that I was trying to put words in your mouth. My sincere appologies.

The second question was a to draw a parallel, and I have to emphasize: a question. To me, it is quite clear that I didn’t put any words in your mouth with that.

I asked questions and you accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

all the while telling me what I can and cannot say.

To use you own words: "Please show me where I said that." Talking about the pot calling the kettle black.

And you got personal, which you sidestepped by attacking my first comment without replying to the second. Am I supposed to understand from this that `attack the post not the poster´ does not apply to you? (For clarification: this is a question. I know you never said such thing.)
 
Selfrighteousness is a bitch. Believe me, I know.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Nov 13, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

DAMN YOU KINGS!!!

Look what they’re doing to us!

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby

by otis29 on Nov 14, 2010 5:25 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

So let me ask you this -

If you had responded to my initial post by saying

I also think Rivers, Byron Scott, Skiles, Van Gundy, Karl and McMillan would probably do a better job.
, and left out
So if we cannot discuss the coach because there are no better alternatives? So if we have little to work with as far as trades go, we also shouldn’t critisize the players?
(given the fact that I never said that), do you think that perhaps we would have wound up talking about the Kings instead of you and me? Because that’s how I see it, self righteous or not.

I’m out on this one, but feel free to carry on the argument by yourself, since you seem to be speaking for both of us anyway.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 14, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Theus

I had no problem with keeping him. Considering all the injuries he had to work with he was a better coach then PW in my opinion. Theus was not a “Yes Man” and that was part of the reason he was removed. Theus butted heads and wanted to COACH instead of being COACHED on how to coach… So we got Theus’s replacement who was absolutely the lowest cost coach who drove the team into the ground. Then comes PW who has done nothing to show he is a worthy coach… he has chased players out of Sac… and we have what to show for it? The Maloof’$ have shopped for coaches and we have nothing but a revolving door. So I see now that I am wrong in blaming PW for all the ills… allow me to blame GP and the Maloof’s since they are the ones who have dragged in the leadership we have had. Is this deep enough for you? My apologies since all of this seems so obvious to me…

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Nov 13, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the take

I respect the opinion, though I strongly disagree with it. The last two months of Theus’ tenure saw blowout after blowout after blowout, and that team did not have considerably less talent than last year’s team, which played much more competitively.

You can certainly believe that Theus would have this team playing at a much higher level if you like. Heck, you might even be right. But I don’t agree.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That said,

I do agree that the budget shopping for coaching is the direct result of the Maloof’s influence. And given the current level of talent on the roster, I agree with it. I see no reason to throw good money at coaches that will not squeeze significantly more wins out of this bunch. I see no one out there that will take this roster from rags to riches, so what’s the point?

Put a different way, who should be our head coach?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Being an NBA Coach

is probably the hardest coaching job out there. at least in the NFL, everyone expects the Coach to be thoroughly in charge of the team, and college basketball coaches have complete control over their players for the most part. Its one of the major challenges in the NBA that as coach you have to have an X’s and O’s acumen that’s incredibly high – and – be able to manage the varying personalities on the team to do things that are often in opposition to those personalities personal goals (Say shoot less, spend more energy on D, come off the bench, and so on).

There’s precious few NBA coaches who have both the gameplanning and the personality/reputation to pull off the kind of leadership that’s required to win.

PW seems to be falling short in both areas right now, but what coaches don’t?

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Right

I under no illusion that Westphal is the long term solution here. But while the Wizards are ponying up millions and millions for Saunders and Rambis, we are achieving the same result with Paul Westphal. Saunders walked out of a Wizards practice last week because he is having trouble getting through to his young team. Sonds familiar, except their story is costing the franchise millions of dollars more.

I am all for hiring a top flight coach and paying him top flight money – when we have the talent base where that type of hire will make a difference…and sense.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Should have read "Wizards and T-Wolves"

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

My thoughts as well

Reke’d.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Nov 13, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah

I largely agree with you, as long as our man doesn’t derail the train and alienate our players. Seems like outside of Donte, he’s largely been working with the players, so it’s not too worrying, yet.

Something just seems ‘not right’ behind the curtain though. I can’t pin it down.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Legitimate concern

If Westphal winds up retarding what growth can take place, he needs to go. Of course, the ongoing challenge for any coach in this situation is that he is focused on winning games, while the overall franchise might in fact be more interested in the development of its youth, especially the ones where there is a sizeable investment (Evans, Cousins).

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Does “giving Tyreke too much leeway” count as retarding growth? or is it pro-growth? Last year, that approach seemed pro-growth, but now with another legitimate talent (DMC) around, facilitating some teamwork with the two of them seems important.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Good question

And I don’t know. Evans is still only 21, so I don’t know if he is ready to take on the task of growing not only his game, but the game of his teammates as well. Any movement forward this year, either way, would be fine with me.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Off topic but.....

3-2 with Cousins starting and 0-3 with Dalembert starting. Means nothing I know, but still…

by Devastation Co. MMA on Nov 13, 2010 10:54 AM PST reply actions  

Highlight of the game

Bill Walton, Jerry Reynolds and Peaches all on mic talking. Bill Walton and Jerry talked about the game. Peaches didn’t say a word for quite a long time…

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Nov 13, 2010 11:14 AM PST reply actions   3 recs

lol

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 13, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It was really fun to hear the two basketball minds talk about the Kings.

Walton brought good perspective to the commentary. I’m looking forward to listening to him again.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I enjoyed the Bill Walton quarter

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

What is frustrating about the offense to me

and I and others have said it before but hell, we should keep saying it until it’s fixed is that we came into this season expecting to beat the crap out of a lot of teams in the paint.

Although there are occasional signs of that ability, the offensive sets in the half court all too often have our bigs well away from the basket in that enraging 15-18 foot range. Our bigs I guess can shoot from there – fine, but that should always be the second option.

We should be beating them up inside and then when they do manage to drag our bigs out, then hit the occasional jumper to show opponents ‘see, you can’t beat us from here either’.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

By the way

Defensive rebounding was exactly equal – against the Suns! Sure, we had a lot of offensive rebounds – but that isn’t all that hard when you shoot 40%.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Steve Nash had 6 D rebounds and J-Rich 5

unacceptable.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

That usually happens when you take a lot of long shots and shoot below 33%

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Nov 13, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes

And even worse was the set with Dalembert coming out to receive a pass around the 3 point line, only to waste a few seconds on the shot clock before handing the ball right back to a guard. Nothing good seemed to come from that set.

Somebody mentioned it (I think it was both TZ and Aykis), but we take way too long to begin our offensive sets. We were consistently not initiating the offense until there was only 16-17 seconds left on the clock, mostly because the ball was walked up the court to begin our set.

And I share your aggravation with not pounding the ball inside this game. We had an advantage there that wasn’t really exploited at all.

by outrider on Nov 13, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Phx in fact outscored us in the paint

crazy

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it was BTE that mentioned we take way too long to get into our sets

Something like how our version of the Seven Seconds or less offense is to wait until the shotclock is at seven seconds or less before beginning our offensive set.

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Was it bte? Couldn't remember...

…but the end result was the same- jacking up a long jump shot with no time left on the shot clock. Yuck.

by outrider on Nov 13, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

And not only does starting the offensive set with 17 sec on the shot clock hurt us by giving the kings less time to score but it’s giving the team defending the kings 7 seconds to get set, communicate with each other and prepare for our Offense. And it’s been an on going problem for quite some time.

by ridingthebench on Nov 13, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it just me?

For years, we seemed to be a team that has flirted with 8 second violations more than any other team I watch. This goes back to the Bibby days – he would drive me crazy by crossing the timeline as the 24 second clock ticked down to 16 seconds. Now Evans seems to have contracted the same disease. I thought that having a young team would lead to more up-tempo and transition basketball, but it has not worked out that way.

This kind of reminds me of the 49ers right after Singletary took over. He ran and ran and ran the ball, because it was the best way that he knew to keep his thin defense off the field. Could the Kings be slowing the tempo in an attempt to be faced with fewer defensive possessions? Whatever the answer is, it’s not a lot of fun to watch.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

remember the old Mike Fratello Cavaliers?

They were usually close in super low scoring games because of their methodical, no fast-break approach.

I’d do anything to avoid having that occur here in Sacramento.

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Westphal even noted

at an introductory dinner that some head coaches had the reputation of being good defensive coaches simply because they had slowed their own team’s offense. Hmmm.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 13, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

right

I mean, even when the kings were good, and good defenders, they weren’t known as a defensive team simply because the scores were high, as I remember (sketchy remember anyway) the old kings held their opponents to a near league leading low field goal %

Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.

by TheFifthMookie on Nov 13, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Official Movement to make Bill Walton an Assistant Coach.

I want him working with our big men. The transformation Roy Hibbert had after working out with Walton in the offseason is incredible.

"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC

by Surprise Team on Nov 13, 2010 4:01 PM PST reply actions  

I would agree with this.

Hibbert’s been great. A big part of that was losing almost 30 pounds in the offseason.

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

He's quicker on his feet

Quicker to rebounds, quicker in the post, can move his feet so he doesn’t foul as often.

Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Nov 13, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Official Movement to make Jerry Reynolds the head coach

Darko Milicec passes just as well as Vlade Divac... Vlade would be the first to tell you that

by prowseinthehouse on Nov 13, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he would be awesome with Cousins

He can help him with his passing and his post game. I was also thinking that Kevin McHale might be pretty good also, since he helped to elevate KG and Al Jefferson’s post game.

Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."

by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow bte, just wow. That's what I call keeping a thread alive. Bravo!

the thing I hated the most about Bibby (among almost everything else) was him letting the ball roll towards halfcourt before picking it up at the 5 second mark and then initiating the offense. Tyreke has always been slow to get the offense moving except in transition after a steal or a board. the big difference with Bibby was he was often good for the three after failing to attack the rim or probe the opposing d. ’Reke usually just dribbles incessantly before he makes a last second desperation pass to a big who has no chance in hell of making the contested shot.

I have never thought that PW was the long term solution as head coach (not saying I told you so) but I was hopeful that he would do a good job of teaching the rooks and young players. I don’t think he has ever shown much offensive creativity as our head coach. Remember our complaints last year when the last shot in close games always seemed to be the 1 – 4 flat with ’Reke stuck in the right corner trying to make a heavily defended prayer well past his ability to make the shot with any consistency?

Unfortunately for PW and us, coaches are never allowed to develop a young team in a vacuum and the pressure for wins is incessant. So very early in this season our young players don’t seem to have made a lot of progress and we aren’t winning games. That can’t be a great situation for a coach. So is PW a better coach than Reggie or not? I don’t know. They both faced the same pressure and problems with Reggie taking a team farther than most expected in his first year.

Westphal came in after the incredible terribleness and suckitude of the Theus/Natt fiasco. He couldn’t help but look better and while 25 wins wasn’t really all the wins most were hoping for, with the distraction of Tyreke’s magnificent rookie season, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. So far this season I have to say I am a little skeptical about his ability to get the job done.

I seem to recall that the final straw for Reggie (besides all the losses) was his teams total inability to defend the 3 point shot. If the front office decides to pull the cord on Westphal (and I don’t think that’s the way they are currently leaning) I can’t at this point identify what would be the exact reason to fire him except that the team is not very good and doesn’t seem to taking advantage of the improved talent on the roster. Once JT and Donté are traded and I’m thinking that’s the way we are headed, then Cisco and Beno are just about all that’s left from the 08 – 09 season.

So, I’m puzzled. The only thing I know for certain is that Sergio Rodriguez is not the answer to any question involving the Kings. The combination of the King’s cap situation and resultant financial flexibility along with a large number of tradeable players would seem to make a trade very possible regardless of position but hopefully in the back court. If we can take advantage of a failing teams desperation to get under the cap as expectations fall, so much the better. It’s looking again, even if we win a lot more games that we are going to be in a strong position for the 2011 draft.

So, sorry for the long comment but it’s late, I don’t get what’s happening with the Kings and it just seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same. The rebuilding Kings…………..same as it ever was.

It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum

by Bluejohn on Nov 14, 2010 1:22 AM PST reply actions  

More I think about it

the more I’d rather trade Landry than Thompson. I think he’ll get more back in a deal, and he’s not really what we need from a starting PF, at least in the future. He’ll probably leave in free agency if rumors of his unhappiness are true anyway.

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 14, 2010 1:56 AM PST reply actions  

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