Dr. Petrie and the Awful Misdiagnosis
Last night, Geoff Petrie told longtime season ticket holders, our heroic section214 among them, that offense is the real struggle for the Kings right now.
Offense is a bit of a struggle for the Kings: the team is No. 16 in the league in offense, with a just-above-the-mean 106.8 points scored every 100 possessions. The team isn't shooting particularly well, currently at 25th in the NBA in effective field goal percentage, but has been fantastic overall in limiting turnovers and rebounding on offense. The offense could certainly be better if the big men were more efficient (read: fewer long jumpers) and the wings and guards took better shots (read: fewer contested jumpers off the dribble). This could be a top-10 offense, if everything clicks.
But, uh, Geoff? Bossman? The Kings have the league's worst defense, playing against the league's softest schedule. No team -- NO TEAM -- allows more points per possessions than the Kings. No team -- NO TEAM -- allows teams to shoot better from the floor. The Kings are worse than average at creating turnovers, limiting opponent free throws and even defensive rebounding.
Other than that, which is literally EVERYTHING, the Kings are great on defense.
On the season, Minnesota is averaging 100 points per 100 possessions. In two games against the Kings, the Wolves have produced 113 and 102 points per 100 possessions. The Cavs produced 114 points per 100 possessions against the Kings, and just 104 against eight other teams. The Raptors: 105 against the NBA, 120 against the Kings. Memphis: 103 against the league, 108 against the Kings.
And the real coup de grace, the magnificent capper in what felt like a huge game for the immediate future of the Sacramento Kings: the team managed to hold the Detroit Pistons, they of the 104 points per 100 possessions average on the season, to a completely understandable ... 116 points per 100 possessions. The Pistons shot 54% from the floor, by the way. On the season, they have shot 44%.
But defense isn't the problem for the Kings? #RUKIDDINME?
***
This matters, dammit. The team is failing, and perhaps the most important non-player in the organization does not know why. Unless, of course, Geoff Petrie is so brilliant he sees that which actual on-the-floor performance can't even measure. Are the actual games irrelevant in determining what the problems are?
I don't mean to demean; this is just unbearably frustrating, as someone who spends far too much time worrying about the team. We all spend too much time worrying about this team, yet the president of basketball operations -- the Big Cheese of decision-making -- is either not paying attention or is willfully ignoring the glaring, lights-flashing reality that this team can't stop anybody? We would all love to see our offense as smooth as the top of Bobby Jackson's head. But it won't mean a thing until this team stops somebody, or gets players who can stop somebody, or plays players who can stop somebody.
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You're right of course, Tom. But is there more to this?

Thus:

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Nov 16, 2010 3:10 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
I wouldn't be shocked if, somehow, this all ends in a Greene-for-Rubio straightup swap.
Once again, Geoff Petrie is playing chess, while David Kahn is playing Boggle.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to add to this meme, but...

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Nov 16, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
You know that felt good.
Why fight it?
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
This is awesome.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
I too
Use PHP to perform mainframe integration on system installations in a P2P environment. Or I did until my boss saw this thread and asked me to see him in his office….
"Indiviual results may vary, see participating stores for details...."
by Sacto_J on Nov 16, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
He was talking to fans
who only see 93 points a game over the last 5. Not NBA people who see through the statistics.
I think GP knows what is going on.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2010 3:12 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well ...
These same fans see 103 points per game against. I hardly think Petrie comes into STH events dumbing things down. If he does, for shame.
Hell
I see 94 points a game, think our D will get better as these guys learn to play together – but wonder why we haven’t won a few of these games on offense.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Smokescreen.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 16, 2010 3:14 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
son of a ...
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Ah, reading this was like seeing a hot girl I used to date and remembering how great it was to bang her.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
In "Crazy Hypothetical World", obviously.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I use to love visiting your Crazy Hypothetical World
and banging her too.
Until she gave me a hypothetical disease and I capped her ass.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Nov 16, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec's for everyone
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry about that.
I hypothetically didn’t use a rubber whilst banging her about six months before you.
Please don’t hypothetically cap me, too.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Oh you sons of a bitches
A year-and-a-half ago, Sacramento-based blogger Tom Ziller wondered aloud if the game was passing Geoff Petrie by. Now Ziller notes that the team is horrible at defense, and good at taking care of the ball compared to the league. And yet Petrie says the team’s troubles are on offense, and in taking care of the ball. If you look in the comments, a lot of Kings fans refuse to believe that Petrie could be that out of touch, and insist he’s merely offering a smokescreen.
This is from Truehoop
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
emphasis on smokescreen
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
But
what if we ‘fixed’ our offense and scored 140 points per game?
Monkeys flying...your ass...etc...
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Nov 16, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The magnanimous Sasha Pavlovic once said
My defense IS my offense.

Apparently, that’s all we need to know.
Petrie and Adelman
Rick seemed to have this same philosphy too. He seemed to think that if the offense was scoring and running correctly that the other team would be forced to take the ball out of bounds, and the Kings would be able to set up its defense not allowing the other team to run a fast break the other way for easy points.. This thought does have it merits.
As for Petrie, anything he says is all a mirage. When I know 1140 is going to have him on I always call my wife and we joke about how Petrie is going to interviewed by Grant and not say a damn thing. As has been said many times on this site, he will never ever show his cards.
If I was going to a lunch and Petrie was going to answer questions, I would never expect anything of value to come out of his mouth. Take it all with a grain of salt.
by noreboundsnorings on Nov 16, 2010 3:32 PM PST reply actions
Bit of a misconception with the old Kings
Offensive/Defensive Ratings during Adelman Era. Place in league in parentheses)
1998-99: ORtg 102.7 (13), DRtg (18)
1999-00: ORtg 105.0 (11), DRtg (10)
2000-01: ORtg 105.6 (9), DRtg 99.6 (7)
2001-02: ORtg 109.0 (3), DRtg 101.1 (6)
2002-03: ORtg 105.9 (6), DRtg 99.1 (2)
—Post C-Webb Surgery and After—
2003-04: ORtg 110.3 (2), DRtg 104.9 (21)
2004-05: ORtg 110.5 (3), DRtg 108.2 (23)
2005-06: ORtg 106.7 (11), DRtg (12)
So basically, when Webber was healthy and the Kings were on a roll, their defense was almost statistically better than their offense, which was great as well. Once Webber and the rest of that core left, the defense finally got much worse, although with in his prime Stojakovic (Pretty darn ridiculous in 04 carrying the team, finished 4th in MVP voting), Bibby and Miller, the offense was still extremely potent. The defense picked up for one year with Artest and Wells leading the Kings to the playoffs one final team before the big dropoff in years after.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I never thought the Glory Kings were a defensive powerhouse....
but whenever anyone said they didn’t play defense, I wanted to smack them in the teeth.
KINGS FANS, TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!
by The Artist Formerly Known as CrownUs93 on Nov 16, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
Not only does GP hold his cards close to the vest but if you were playing cards with him he wouldn't even tell you what game you were playing
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
by Bluejohn on Nov 16, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
That’s what cracked me up so much about the “June 31st” thing. The guy won’t even give you a real date for the expiration of the CBA.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
"Lousy Smarch weather..."

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd, because duh.
"One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere, like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
Well, it looks like the Kings got worked for the ar
by MarcusC on Nov 16, 2010 3:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Olde timey pirate alert
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 16, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Dar, I'm unattractive, yar.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
We need to keep this kind of talk Kings-centric so
Parlé
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Dar, Grant Napear is unattractive, yar.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
Ar, a pretty face, he don't possess...savvy?
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
sorry
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
"Mr. Petrie, how can you say that the Kings' problem is their offense?"
“Yar… two glass eyes…”

::dink dink::
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Because you can’t rec one Simpsons picture and not the other!
"One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere, like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
Oops,
I mean, I think it is now safe to say that the Kings got screwed with the Artest trade. The kings desperately need defenders at the guard and 3 spots, and they gave away one of the best NBA defenders who is a starter on a championship team for two bench/role players.
by MarcusC on Nov 16, 2010 3:44 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Really?
You do realize that Artest was A FREE AGENT NEXT YEAR. You think the Kings were more likely to retain him then the Rockets WHO WENT TO GAME 7 IN THE PLAYOFFS AGAINST THE LAKERS!
This is completely asinine. What on Earth did you expect the Kings to have done? Honestly, what?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
I can't take this shit are you serious?
You think the Kings were more likely to retain him then the Rockets WHO WENT TO GAME 7 IN THE PLAYOFFS AGAINST THE LAKERS!
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
It's this same reasoning and reality to why the kings are horrible right now.
The arena is booboo and nobody wants to play in Sacramento, atleast right now, but that should change with a new Arena and a more mature team.
by MarcusC on Nov 16, 2010 3:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
you have zero clue what I am talking about don't you?
It’s like trying to reason with an avocado
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
What the...

You talkin’ to me?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 16, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
I think wally was talking to Kahnnnnnnnnnnnnn
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
I guess only you would know. Don't know many people that kick it with avocados.
by MarcusC on Nov 16, 2010 4:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well I am glad you acknowledge that it is in the realm of possibility that you have the intellect and reasoning skills of a vegetable.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
(actually as a sidenote, isn't it a fruit?)
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
but not the kind you wanna put in a fruit salad.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Do you have any concept of what was going on here at that time and the fact Artest wanted out?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I would have wanted out too.
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Basically, what happened
is the Maloofs lied to Artest and told him they would resign him. He would have been happy to resign for a modest amount in comparison to his skills becasue he was relatively happy here. But nobody’s happy when they finally figure out they’ve been had.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
He would have been happy to resign for a modest amount in comparison to his skills becasue he was relatively happy here.
Source?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Ron's comments after January of that season.
You know I am right on the Maloof comment, correct? Or would you like to make that one go away as well?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I just don't ever recall
hearing anything about Artest offering to play here for a hometown discount. But I guess if Ron said it, it must be gospel. I shudder at the thought of Artest playing here these past two years. He just doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy that would be happy playing for a transitioning, rebuilding ballclub.
Remember the Artest days however it makes you happy, CC.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Happier than now
They were a competitive team and haven’t been one since he left, although the first half of last season was fun as they overachieved.
But what’s done is done. I just thought Wally’s rewriting of history needed to be corrected.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
On short notice
I found this blog piece from June 2008 quoting Artest’s agent basically saying the same things Ron was saying at the end of that year. Naturally, a month later, it was a completely different story after Ron got smacked with the truth that the Kings would not sign him to a contract extension.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
The agent
remarks twice in the first piece that Artest is the best player on the team and would like to be compensated as such. I’m not sure how much of a hometown discount was packed into those statements. In fact, the piece pretty much conveyed that while Artest appreciated the chance that the Kings gave him, they were going to have to come to the table with a fair market proposal or he would test the free agent market. That was his right, and the correct path for him to take, in my opinion. But it just doesn’t sound like he was going to stay here for less. If he was going to sign with anyone for a modest amount in relation to his skills, it likely had more to do with the baggage that he was carrying and not his benevolence.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Here's some more
From Amick’s blog in 2008, an interview witrh Gavin Maloof:
Question: On another note, there was some buzz among Kings fans about an appearance you’d made recently on the Jim Rome show in which you expressed some desire to extend Ron this summer. Was that the case?
Answer: "I think this. I think that of course it’s going to be up to Ron whatever he wants to do this summer, whether he opts out or stays with us. But if he continues to play as terrific as he’s played this year, it’s all up to him. If he plays great this year and decides not to opt out and has another terrific year, then sure we’re going to look at signing him. Sure, absolutely.
“It’s up to him, though, really. It’s up to him. The ball’s in his court. If he just continues to do what he’s doing now – all the guys like him in the locker room, he brings such an intensity to the game. It’s up to him.”
But after the Artest-Petrie meeting July 1, it was pretty clear it wasn’t up to Ron.
I guess I can go look for the interview with Jim Rome, but I think we know where this is going.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Correction
The interview was with Joe Maloof.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
If he plays great this year and decides not to opt out and has another terrific year, then sure we’re going to look at signing him. Sure, absolutely.
Just because they didn’t give him the amount of money he wanted does not mean they lied to him. It’s revisionist bullshit to pretend Artest would have given Sacramento a home town discount.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
If he wanted to test the free agent market, he would have opted out.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
He didn't because he wouldn't have gotten more than the mid level exemption and he refused to take it at the time.
He wanted to get paid. He felt the team lied to him and was going to make him the cornerstone which means he thought he was getting paid star salary.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Ron was the best player on the team
Close call between and Kmart, but only one of those guys played on both sides of the court.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 16, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
Were you a big fan of his?
I dont remember watching him play and thinking he was a piece for the future, as much as I appreciated some of his efforts.
by MichaelMack on Nov 16, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
A quick history lesson - NEK was and is a contrarian
Towards the end of Artest’s tenure with the Kings, quite a few people here were tired of Ron-Ron’s act, so NEK (formerly going by the name of coolcatreport.com) embraced him. Quite a few people here loved Kevin Martin, so NEK regularly ripped him, and did it to clearly antagonize.
Amazingly enough, when Ron-Ron would have issues (domestic violence allegations, missed game in Miami, malnourished dogs), CCR/NEK would tend to disappear for significant amounts of time. When Kevin Martin struggled in an individual game, he’d fire up his “I told you so” and rub it in everyone’s face.
Since he created his new username, he’s actually been almost tolerable. Seems he fell off the wagon last night.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Wrong as usual
While Artest continued to have a lot of challenging off-court issues, it was hard not to like his effort on the court, particularly on the defensive end when he would dominate guys like Brandon Roy. He kept the team competitive. When he left, it all fell apart. The full commitment to the rebuild only started when the team tanked without him the following year.
Folks like Otis and his ilk didn’t appreciate Artest and over- appreciated Kmart. I tried to provide some balance along the way. Artest and Martin were a pretty dynamic duo that just needed some help and to stay healthy.
But the Kings went in another direction, and that’s today’s reality: a full rebuild, multiple coaching changes, 42 wins in two seasons and a 3-6 start this season. Meanwhile, Ron has a ring and is a key cog on the best team in the league, so I guess it worked out OK for him.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Certainly it worked out well for Ron-Ron
He went to the Lakers. So that’s a big “no shit Sherlock”.
I appreciated Artest fine, but we weren’t going anywhere with him. Let’s not pretend he would have been happy in Sacramento during an extended rebuild.
And I agreed with some of the criticisms of Kevin’s game, especially on the defensive end. But your “picking at the scab” of the people here who really liked Kevin’s game – whenever he had a subpar performance – was evidence of your classic trollism.
You’re a board troll dude. You practically admitted you were more a fan of Ron-Ron and less a fan of the Kings. I’m surprised you aren’t front-running on the Lakers board these days
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS THREAD?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
Don't pull on it, the whole thing will unravel!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Fun fact
The team defense was better last year, statistically, than in Artest’s final season here.
by Tom Ziller on Nov 17, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
The word from on high should always be rec'd.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 17, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Fun Fact
Artest was perhaps the 4th option for that Lakers team, when he wanted to be the first option in Sacramento. Keeping Ron could’ve led to more meaningless wins, once again delaying the rebuild. Instead we hit rock bottom, drafted Tyreke, got Casspi and Greene, got cap space, now have Cousins.
Oh wait, your new stance is that we should trade Cousins and Tyreke, because they’re not playing like 10 year veteran All-Stars but instead like 20 and 21 year olds.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 17, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ron-Ron is a very good player
but as even a 2nd (or 3rd) option on a consistant basis? Hmmm – no.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said
I appreciated some of his efforts. But his off court issues were a big deal, its hard to root for someone who is so careless in his real life, and he is an inconsistent player. Some nites borderline dominating, other nites sitting out with mysterious injuries. I can see how he fits on the Lakers, because he doesnt have to do any heavy lifting, and his defense and occasional nites of brilliance are appreciated.
by MichaelMack on Nov 17, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
I think his on court routine was bad too
He thought he was the team star. and routinely changed the end of the game called play to feature himself. I also remember a game where we were running a trap and Cisco and Artest were successful twice in a row. The next 2 plays you see Cisco frantically waving for Ron to come up for the trap, which Ron declined, who knowqs maybe he was bored.
At the next stoppage, Cisco walked straight over to him and got in his face, which I appreciated and why Cisco is a team leader.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Yeah, there's some revisionist history going on vis-a-vis Artest at times
I’m happy for him that he’s done so well in Los Angeles, and I’m super happy for him that he appears to have gotten his head on straight. I just doubt any of that would have happened here.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
It seems like most of the fan
by MarcusC on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
You know, when you realized that whatever you were going to say was actually mind-numbingly pointless, you could've just hit "cancel" and regrouped
instead of posting what you had started to type and then apologize for it. That being said, please don’t leave us. Your presence is a joy to me.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
Marcus' comments are like little packets of happy.
I have made a personal vow to only have one of his comments as part of my sig line, tho.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
This is absolutely painful
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
oh you don't say
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you for this TZ
When I read Petrie’s comments I was wondering if we were watching the same team. Shots obviously aren’t bouncing our way right now, but our D is so bad they can’t even stop a nosebleed.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Nov 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Oh, and feel free to join in on my #KingsD hashtag on Twitter
We’re listing things they can’t stop. Like pretty much everything.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Nov 16, 2010 3:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
since I've always got to defend GP
Maybe he meant …
“Offense is the real struggle right now…it is the truly frustrating thing because (a) we have the ability presently to be better than we are showing; and (b) an improved offense would mean a somewhat better showing on defense but more importantly a couple more wins, which would do wonders for team morale and put us in the ‘feeling good we are improving’ category. Defense, on the other hand, is going to take time and we knew that.”
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
How could the team be poor on defense....
if defense doesn’t exist.
I agree with GP if he is expecting better defensive sets created by more efficient offensive sequences, that would be a natural course of action if that were the problem. The reality lies in poor communication, bad rotations, lack of effort, and a transition defense that would more appropriately be called stagnation defense.
I see what GP is saying as: with the current personnel, the most realistic way of improving is through offense.
KINGS FANS, TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!
by The Artist Formerly Known as CrownUs93 on Nov 16, 2010 3:57 PM PST reply actions
Sure
But conversely, couldn’t you say that playing better defense will create more opportunities to score in the open court and against defenses that aren’t set?
All things being equal (that playing well at one end of the court will always help you at the other end of the court), implying that the offense is the issue here is either Petrie attempting to pull one over on his audience or coming from a guy that’s not paying full attention.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
In a perfect world yes...
In the NBA all teams aren’t created equal, and I just took words from a guy who is probably most familiar with the roster as saying, with a sugarcoat: “Having better defense is not an option”.
KINGS FANS, TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!
by The Artist Formerly Known as CrownUs93 on Nov 16, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
Nice piece, TZ
One of the things that jumped out at me from the Pistons game was the Kings shooting 2-18 from 3, and 14-21 floor. A 28% night from the arc and a 71% night from the line could have brought a win. I think perhaps that is what the Kings are looking at here, inasmuch as they are closer to being a better offensive club than a better defensive club. None of this changes your point, which is that this team will not get significantly better unless they become a much different team on the defensive end of the floor.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
While you're working on becoming good
find a way to win the game in front of you.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Customer: Where's the Car Fax, Salesman: Look a sunglass holder
Sometimes it’s just easier to deflect the conversation, onto something else rather than having to answer the tough questions.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Actually,
Petrie’s comment regarding the offense was his opening statement, and was not the result of an audience question.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Never mind
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It's clear
that the defense is a mess. It has been for several years now. You’re right that addressing that should be the team’s top priority. But I don’t think the fact that GP glossed over that point is necessarily an indication that he doesn’t understand it.
His responsibility is to ensure the quality of the team’s play over the fan experience. Granted, neither is going very well right now. But it seems like a reach to conclude that it’s because he’s not paying attention on the basis of this statement, particularly given his history of caginess when making public statements. Is there more concrete evidence that he has been remiss?
by furious.d on Nov 16, 2010 5:49 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Interesting to see
How many people are trying to rationalize away GP’s comments.
As if: I like GP, therefore GP can never be so blatantly wrong.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
that's exactly what I do
I have to admit, I’m totally in the tank for that mutha
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Petrie is right to fault the offense but neglectful in not mentioning defensive lapses especially
the lobs. The three point line has been guarded more assiduously of late, but shots went down. Nothing more they could have done… UNLESS, they had changed their strategy and played man-to-man to deny the hot shooters the ball. But that seems to be a tall order these days in the NBA.
Stay Thirsty My Friends
WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.
Maybe if the team employed an advanced stat guy
they would know that things such as defensive efficiency and rebound rate exist.
Nah -
Petrie would only have him keep offensive stats.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
In all honesty
I am graduating next month with a degree in Statistics, so I sent the Kings my resume. I don’t expect to hear back, but at least I tried.
Did you list StR as a reference
You did? You’re screwed.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I just mentioned that I have seen pictures of Season Ticket Holders
And that I have an old ticket stub signed by Kevin Martin. I figured that was enough to make them rethink the whole no statistician thing.
Good luck!
I took a Statistics class a few years back and it totally clicked for me. Easiest A I’ve ever gotten in a real class (by which I mean a class that you have real work, learn real things, and that at lot of people might have trouble with). Too bad I didn’t really enjoy the subject and thus didn’t pursue it. But good luck!!
"One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere, like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
So, the best defense is a good offense
Seems like I have heard that one before… I do think that a better offense helps, but clearly they lack defensively. I would say, again, that is due to poor team defense. They have good individual defenders, but until they can play as a team defensively they will keep losing.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
This is not a good defensive team
But they have the makings of a pretty good offensive team. They are going to have to outscore teams to win. That’s the reality of it, and Petrie and everyone else knows that.
And good offense does help your defense. It gives you something to play for and puts more pressure on the other team to score.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I agree with that
We can be quite a bit better offensively, and that does change the dynamic of the game a lot.
by MichaelMack on Nov 16, 2010 11:42 PM PST up reply actions
It limits opponent fast break opportunities
especiallywhen the 3 isn’t going down and those long D rebounds get them 1/4 of the way to our basket.
It’s a minor point – but possibly worth a few point a game.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
This team needs more organization
Turnovers and lapses in defense are the causes of disorganization. The team has talent. Everyone just needs to get on the same page. We have the parts for a mustang, but everything’s poorly put together.
I disagree
This organization needs more team.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Nov 16, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Petrie has a point.
Since this whole discussion is taking the mans words and twisting the story worse than a news journalist, I think that in our situation, If Kings offense hasn’t been such a problem, Not only would out win streak be much better, but also it wouldn’t make out defense look AS Bad as it is.
I think he is spot on about what he said about how yeah, most games we handle the ball over with few turnovers, but we’re not causing opposition to turn the ball over either, and because we not hitting shots, them fast-break points are killing us.
(I use us, we, we’re as I think we all suffer their pain and reap the rewards just as much, if not more!!!)
I picked up on this 'misdiagnosis' in Section's thread
I honestly do not see how people who have actually watched the games can come to the conclusion that defense is not the central problem. The fact that Petrie did exactly that worries me. However, this comment is not to talk about the particular merits or demerits of our GM.
To concentrate on offense as the real problem is to say that our ability to score the basketball should not be average (which statistically speaking it is), it should be better than average. This may seem well at first; however, at the same time what you also have to say if this is your focus is that our ability to defend, whilst being worse than our ability to score (and in fact we have the league’s worst defense), is at best a secondary focus.
I suppose the real question which underlies this ‘misdiagnosis’ is what Petrie’s philosophy of how to play the game of basketball is. Does Petrie think that offense wins basketball games? Does he ideally want us to take a high-scoring offensive barrage, which is to say the Suns approach? This approach can win basketball games; it can in fact win a lot of games. Nonetheless, it is far from a proven method to winning championships. I admit to not knowing what how our GM thinks the game of basketball should be played. If someone can inform me as to Petrie’s basketball philosophy I would be grateful. Until then I remain somewhat concerned as a fan about the future direction of King’s basketball.
by Error on Nov 17, 2010 6:59 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Petrie is known to like scorers and scoring and to stack teams that way
Stay Thirsty My Friends
WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.
Ooooooh, stingy with the recs, your lordship?
I AM AWESOME.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Nov 17, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
I hand out a ton of recs! I commented her because it was a stand-out comment from a new member, and because it’s so far down the thread.
The dashboard says I have given 1,913 recs since we moved to this platform. You have only given 190! Hater.
by Tom Ziller on Nov 17, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
190? That many?
188 are self-recs.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Stop that -
You’ll go blind, or at least wind up with hair on the back of your keyboard.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
A lot of great points, and I don't profess to know why GP said what he did
But, even though we are last in defensive efficiency at 109.5 per game and our offense is at 104.1, our offense to defensive differential is only 5.4 pts per 100 possessions. And, last season our offense was 102.4 and defense was 107.2 with a differential of 4.8 per game. So, while our defense worsened by 2.3; our offense only got better by 1.7.
So, as badly as we feel about the defense, the overall different between the 2 sides of the ball aren’t that so far apart. So, if Geoff feels that if we were more efficient on offense that we wouldn’t be giving up so many points off of turnovers and fast breaks, then we could be closer to say a 105 offesive and 105 defensive efficiency. And, be in more games.
I wasn’t there so I don’t know, but I’m guessing that GP didn’t say he was happy with the defense. But he might have had more hope for our offense coming into the season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I don't quite get it
you say that our defense has got worse and our offense improved…yet you think its reasonable to say that we should improve our offense to improve our defense…i’m inclined to think the better approach would be the other way around…..the notion that keeping turnovers down will solve the problem is ridiculous considering we have the 7th lowest turnover rate in the league
Yeah but shot selection is a major issue too.
And the Kings miss a hell of a lot more shots than they turn the ball over.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I understand your concern and I share it
but what I’ve been saying is that the MAIN answer to our woes does not lie in improving our offense but rather from improving our LEAGUE WORST defense. I don’t think this is a controversial statement, but I do think your perspective depends on how you think the game should be played. Ideally we would be great in both areas but as a general rule I think it has clearly been shown in the NBA that better defensive teams in general have more success.
My perspective is different than yours (not to mention my assessment)....
…. for a lot of reasons.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

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