Is Paul Westphal Getting Sick of Donte Greene Questions?
by Tom Ziller on Nov 17, 2010 4:45 AM PST
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Sick of Donte questions, Paul?
Well I’m sick of suspect lineups, unnecessary veteran fetishes, and clearly flawed communication. This team might not actually be as good as we thought it was, but it’s clearly better than what we’ve seen the last few games.
by LPKingsFan on Nov 17, 2010 5:28 AM PST reply actions 13 recs
And
I am tired of wondering if PW is just somebody who needs to have a player in the doghouse to show that he is in charge.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Nov 17, 2010 6:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dots and Donte
Paul Westphal is a smart man. He can connect the dots, and he has to know defense is killing the team.
I think it’s becoming more and more questionable that Westphal is a “smart man” who “can connect the dots.” He’s obviously smart enough to bullshit some folks and keep a coaching gig for a while.
But if he ever re-inserts Greene into the rotation, it’ll be completely on his own terms. Hell, maybe he’s miffed anyone cares about Donté. Proud men don’t like being questioned.
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Nov 17, 2010 7:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Not so fast, mbcarval
This one fits CoolCat nicely:
If anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is a foolishness on his part and a humiliation.
Proverbs 18:13
In other words, to make some sort of definite judgement on a matter that is pure conjecture is idiocy.
No screen name, same old shit
Using a bible quote to bolster the legitimacy of a bible quote?
That’s unheard of!
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
One step forward.. three steps back...
Growing up in the Bay Area; the Warriors/Raiders/49ers/A’s, moving to Portland in time for the ’76 Blazers… My adult fandom life is one of being tortured and penalized for the gift of excess in my youth.. sigh…
And the Raiders are giving you false hopes right now
mark my words.
Oh, they don’t completely suck which is an improvement but . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
and speaking of bible quotes...
it is blasphemy to mention the raiders and 49ers in the same sentence.
You are right
Raiders rock. 49ers suck. Problem solved.
Muhahahahahahaha!
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
Whoda thunk it???
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
49rs can still win the division
(believe it or not)
San Diego will come back and win the West late – as usual.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
the chargers have the easier schedule
but the raiders have the tie breaker at the moment.
Surely a sign of the apocalypse.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
this is BS
if Donte Greene was the antidote to our 5 game losing streak, if he was so great, wouldn’t he have shown some of that in the preseason, in practice or in the limited time he has played?
PW has his hands full trying to get the most out of this roster, develop some chemistry, develop a team defense with a bunch of 21 year olds. It has to be annoying that all anyone wants to know is why he hasn’t given more burn to the out of shape 11th best guy on the roster. As if the 11th best guy on the roster is going to magically turn everything around.
Let me submit that those of us pining for Donte to get some playing time are really just hoping to salvage our pre-season expectations by pining for that one King who hasn’t yet thoroughly disappointed us to come in and be the guy we dreamed he’d be. The first stage of the grieving process is denial. “Maybe we are better than our record, maybe if we could only give Donte a shot, it would change things…”
I think PW’s energies are better spent focusing on how to put our top 10 players in better position to succeed, and how to improve their performances.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Nov 17, 2010 7:52 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
I agree with this in spirit
As I’ve never been a huge fan of Donte’s game. But to play devil’s advocate, I’d say that Jon Brockman was probably the 10th or 11th best player on our roster last season, but he was a useful guy in certain situations.
Thing is, Donte showed last year that he could be effective defensively against certain players. The “out of shape” part is probably what’s keeping him off the floor, and it’s certainly PW’s prerogative to decrease his minutes because of this. On the other hand, I’m not sure PW has shown he has what it takes to develop young talent, so he may be screwing the pooch by not getting Donte some burn right now.
I guess I can see both sides of the argument here.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
11th best player?
Then why did he start Game 1 of the season, despite having already supposedly sucked in preseason, in practices and pissing off Westphal by coming in heavy? Why did he play so much last year, when the team replaced two SFs (Noc and Ime) with a minimum-contract journeyman (Wright)?
Given that in the only game he received more than a couple minutes (the opener) he held his counterpart (Beasley) to fewer points than the current starter (Omri) did, I don’t get how Westphal could reasonably believe Donte is worse than Wright, and worse at SF than JT.
Mustang’s idea above is beginning to make sense.
by Tom Ziller on Nov 17, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
PW does always seem to have a chip
And I think last year he came in with something to prove. He barked at reporters in press conferences for his 1-4 flat, left a starter on the bench for a whole game and told the press so it was he new his place, had a discordant locker room, and now this year some of the same grumblings. My first boss at Bel Air said the guy who always has to tell you he is the boss always has the least confidence in his authority. I am not a big Wright fan, but goodness, he shouldnt ever be off the bench before Donte.
by MichaelMack on Nov 17, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Very well said.
I can understand PW not wanting to repeat his mistakes with Payton and the Sonics. He lost control of a team and got fired. That had to have left a lasting impression. That is probably the cause of a lot of what is going on.
I find it very hard to make up excuses for PW. What you outline above is telling as well as acting like he doesn’t care about how the players feel, the whole Spencer fiasco, and now seeming to do the same thing with Donte’. This is just too much.
He seems to need to prove to everybody that he is in charge, but it really is just his own insecurities and his need to prove that to himself…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
There's only one Gary Payton...
Cue disappointed groans from GM’s… Also cue relieved sighs from coaches.
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 17, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
He is not the antidote
but he could be part of the solution of some of the problems (on defense).
It has to be annoying that all anyone wants to know is why he hasn’t given more burn to the out of shape 11th best guy on the roster.
He was out of shape in the preseason. I think he should be in shape by now.
And people want to know much more from PW, like why JT played SF, what is happening with rotations, team defense and offense (to name a few).
Dunking Dutchman
Two things in PW's defense
(a) Donte could be part of the solution on defense, but that involves juggling the rotations, which is counterproductive, and it also means somebody else comes out — who??
(b) JT came into camp in shape. If PW wants to reward players who work hard and have some sense, then I have to support that. I’d try to find ways to get JT in a game before Donte, for that reason.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
I was thinking the same about Donte
If PW is worried about perimeter defense why does he have a quick 6’11" SF riding the pine? I was scratching my head wondering that while watching a 6’10" Micheal Beasley shoot over 6’7" Garcia.
If this was about rewarding people in shape
why on Earth did he start Donte then? That makes no sense (also given the fact that Landry was out of shape too)
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
Two replies
Again, devil’s advocate here, as I’m not a huge Donté Greene guy:
(a) juggling rotations seems to be PW’s modus operandi, so this wouldn’t be a huge change. Who’s minutes would he take? I’d say a few of Garcia’s, and a few of Omri’s.
(b) Is Donté in worse shape than DeMarcus Cousins? I really have my doubts, so I’m thinking that’s not a uniform policy coming from PW.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Good points, but isn't (b) what PW does
Didn’t Amick say from his experience that PW plays favorites?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Amick said that players on the team feel that way.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I wasn't saying that PW played favorites among the sports writers. ;)
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I sure as hell want to see Donte get into the rotation but hardly think it's some solution to the losing
I would disagree with the premise of your arguement. If anyone really sees Donte as the solution and this team will start rocking a .500 record with him then yes I would agree but I have a hard time believing there are many of those people out there.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 17, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
Donte is definitely not THE answer to our defensive woes...
But right now, our defense has NO answers for even the most putrid offenses. When the Pistons shoot +50% from the field, why not investigate ANY option?
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Not on the defensive end, but how about the offensive end.
Donte was tied with Beno for the 3rd best 3pt shooting percentage last year. And, the 2nd place player, Noc isn’t on the team. And, even though Donte only took 4 3-pointers this season, he’s still tied with Evans for the 3rd best 3pt shooting percentage this year.
Now, we didn’t win with Wright or JT playing the 3. And, JT doesn’t even take 3’s and while Wright does he’s 0-4 and has only scored 2 pts in 5 games. Yet, the KIngs have the 2nd worst 3pt shooting percentage in the league.
PW has a history of relying on the defensive player and ignoring the offensive side when it comes to subing in players. But, now we suck defensively, and he’s painted himself into a corner with his comments about Donte.
He’s going to have to eat a lot of crow if he puts Donte in the game. And, I’m guessing his pride won’t let him.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think
You might be right on your guess.
But, we have seen in the past with Spencer, he isn’t so prideful that he can’t make a joke of a situation, such as the big high five sequence. Perhaps he can let Donte play a bit, even if it just so I never have to see Wright attempt a field goal again.
If I really though that the dance was PW's idea and not dictated by the FO
as part of some kind of publicity act to squelch rumor and public opinion about the friction inside the locker room, I’d be a much happier fan.
Showboating in front of bunch of fans, just doesn’t seem to fit PW’s style. He’s more the stand up and shake your hand or pat your back as you come off the court kind of guy. He didn’t do the Spencer Shuffle for Hawes sake, he did it to show that Westphal isn’t a vindictive guy. Which makes me thinks that is closer to what he is. And, I’ve said all along that the Donte Drama is more about Paul Westphal than about Donte’s skill level.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Wow
He didn’t do the Spencer Shuffle for Hawes sake, he did it to show that Westphal isn’t a vindictive guy. Which makes me thinks that is closer to what he is.
You really don’t like the guy do you?
One thing I haven’t heard in quite a few interviews with former players and NBA types is that Westphal is fake or disingenuous or self-serving. Doesn’t mean it’s not true of course, but it doesn’t fit what I’ve heard.
Perhaps he’s making a mistake with Donté’s playing time. Perhaps he’s goofed up by putting JT at the 3. Perhaps he’s piss poor with his rotations and handled the Spencer Hawes issue less than gracefully.
Perhaps that just makes him a poor coach. But you’ve taken the leap beyond that and turned him into some sort of treacherous villain.
If he gave you the apology your looking for, would that help?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
What would help is if he got the team to play defense and put some motion into the offense.
If he’d done that in the first place no one would give a crap about Donte. But, he didn’t and now he has to come up with all sort of excuses for why he’s not playing him.
Stop trying to put this all on me, he got to where he’s on his own actions and statements. You act like I’m the only one who’s questioning his actions. And, since I have always said that I thought that there was more to his not playing Donte than Donte’s weight or poor performance, I’m suprised that you found that statement you highlighted that usual.
People on this site have read a lot into the actions or statement of the players, coaches and front office. Just go back and see all the statements of opinion that came out of Hawes’ refusal to play in VSL. Without knowing to complete story, people will always come to some conclusion on their own. As have I.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I am in complete agreement with you HT
I will admit to not being a fan of Westphal since early in the season, even though I was pleased at his hiring. I think the Hawes high five was for his public image, not anything else. But my opinion changed hearing him defend the 1-4, and how he handled Hawes, and it being my impression that all players are not treated the same.
Of course! You are 100% correct
A out-of-shape guy by 20+ pounds is sending a message loud and clear “I am not ready to play” And the coach is suppose to interpret that as “Go play”?!?
The mistake was starting him in Game 1. Playing to start the season does not justify Donte as a capable player, it was an ill-conceived move by PW that was quickly corrected.
The good news for Donte fans is JT at ‘3’ is quickly becoming a failed experiment. I would guess that Cisco will move into the SG spot as a starter before long. This combination will open up minutes for Donte. He will get his chance. Lets hope he responds.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]
Why did he start game 1 if he was so out of shape?
Couldn’t Westphal see that in the preseason?
Actually, Donte started the last 5 games of Preseason & the Season Opener.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sample size..
Free Donte..! As I recall he did have some big games last season, and JT at the three makes me want to puke.
Donte score 24pts in both games against NY last season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Exactly
He sure did score that much and one game he had a monster dunk and like 4 blocks or so. Free DONTE!!!!!
by dj3ptspecialist44 on Nov 17, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
This is all the fault of Westie's favorite assistant coach
Paul Westphal’s ego. Dude hides behind the affable midwesterner bit, but he’s gotten a bit of a big head this season. You lucked into the best rookie in the draft Paul, dial back the egi a bit. We all know how well teaching Shawes a lesson worked out last year.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Nov 17, 2010 8:52 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Actually, it did work.
Hawes came out and had the best game he’d had in a while.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
But he wouldnt have had that game otherwise?
It was just because he got publicly humiliated?
by MichaelMack on Nov 17, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
I think his pride was stung and he had something to prove.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
donte and jason traded
It is just to find a suitor to take them.it was fun while it lasted but it ’s over.my question to kings fans can westphal coach our kings i say no!fire him when season is over.GO KINGS
by cowboyron96@yahoo.com on Nov 17, 2010 9:02 AM PST reply actions
IF WE LOOSE TONIGHT,WE ARE DONE!
Just the facts.so much talent and no good coach.
by cowboyron96@yahoo.com on Nov 17, 2010 9:05 AM PST reply actions
I think we lose
This team never could handle Amare. I guess this is a test of our new bigs. I see Cuz fouling out early.
If we lose tonight...
the Kings can change this years slogan from “here we rise” to “here we suck”
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Here we writhe
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 17, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
I almost spit out my coffee
best turn of phrase so far this season.
by MichaelMack on Nov 17, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Don Corleone?
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 17, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Are you making fun of my speech impediment?
Seriously, that was awesome.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 17, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Greene
This is going to be another of Petries mistakes down the line. allowing the coach to totally control the team. Defense = offense. Our defense sucks so our offense sucks. We would kill to have a player like Wallace back but we let him go just like they are going to lose trade waive Greene. We will then spend hours and years watching Greene dominate on another team for … how many years has it been now that Wallace has been the man?
Just saw on SI.com that Billups might be on the trading block. That's just who we need.
How do we make the salaries match up? Dalembert plus Donte for Chauncey?
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
I would love for Chauncey to kick Tyreke's ass up and down the floor a bit in practice, to teach him some lessons.
“You’ve got more physical talent in your pinkie than I have in my whole body, and I’m still working you over… Why is that? STOP REACHING!”
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Nov 17, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
you're insane
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Nov 17, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
I love Chauncey, and think he's just the distributor we need and the perimeter defender.
But that was an impulsive thought, and not entirely serious. The truth is, I think mostly we need patience. Veteran leadership would be nice, too. But mostly, patience. Let’s play some games and get some better.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
I don't know
with the arena issue and everything, I’m not sure this franchise can afford another lost season. And considering the lack of vets on this team, we’re not getting the leadership we need from the coaching staff. I think a guy who’s been through this before might not be the worst thing for this team.
FREE DONTE
I’m really starting to believe that this is less about Greene and more about a vendetta of some sorts with Westphal. We started the season 3-1 have lost 5 games in a row, 4 at home and he doesn’t even want to consider a change.
Did he see just how bad Wright looked on the floor? You are telling me a more athletic taller Greene can’t look that bad on the floor? My point is who is vested in the future Greene or Wright? We went through this same BS last year with Desmond Mason and Udoka. We won’t know if Greene is the bum Westphal makes him out to be or a gem waiting on the bench unless he gets to pay.
I find it funny that Westphal has longer leashes with certain players yet Greene can’t sniff the court but for what 45 seconds. I love Omri, but there’s several times where he takes an ill advised shot or gets burned on 3-4 series defensively and I’m like lets give Donte a chance nope.
Lets throw JT in to Guard Rudy Gay yup that works. I’m sorry Donte may be a bum, but as stated above chances are he’s not and we will have another Gerald Wallace situation when he puts it all together.
by dj3ptspecialist44 on Nov 17, 2010 10:42 AM PST reply actions
I wonder if Petrie is gonna do something bout this
If I recall correctly, other than losing alot, Reggie Theus got fired because he wasnt playing JT alot.
That's actually something that's been bothering me about this
I don’t like with the front office messes with the coaching staff too much, but this can’t be Geoff’s vision for the team, can it?
Then again, the offense is our biggest problem I guess.
If he were to fire PW, he'd be admitting a pretty big mistake
considering that they guaranteed the final year of PW’s contract before this season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
HighTops, I feel responsible.
About a week or so ago, I had it in my head to post something to the effect that I really appreciate your highly informed take on things, and your scouting reports, etc. And ever since that moment, you’ve taken a sharply negative turn. I should have left well enough alone.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Nov 17, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, thanks for the compliment, and I'm sorry that I can't please all the people all the time
I simply tell it like I see it, and when it’s bad there is a lot of negative to see.
By the way, I have never suggested that PW needs to be fired. But, for a year now, even before the Hawes incident last season, I have been against his lineups and rotations. And, to date even though I can’t prove that I was correct, the number show that he might not have been either.
No matter how many addition to the lineup we had this season, this is still a rebuilding team. And, I haven’t seen much team or even that much personal improvement by the players. And, until I do I will continue to point out the negatives until they improve.
I’d love to be able to do a play of the game comment. Or, look how much better (so n so) is doing. But, I can’t, and I won’t go around with a song in my heart and making excuses for this team.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
and its much too early to fire him
Again, I have verbalized my thoughts on his weaknesses quite a bit on this board, but I dont think he is so horrific that he can’t pull the team together with a steadier hand on playing time, defensive rotations, and and offensive scheme.
I wasn't thinking of firing at all (note the messing with the coaching staff preface)
But pulling PW over and saying something like, “look we’ve invested high picks and a couple years developing these guys. They’re inconsistent, but ”http://www.82games.com/1011/1011SAC.HTM" target="new">the numbers show they’ve actually been productive when you’ve played them. Play them more."
Now, of course, maybe Geoff did do that, and of course we don’t hear about it publicly. But I’d imagine we’d see at least some change in the rotations if he had.
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