Preview: Knicks at Kings
by Tom Ziller on Nov 17, 2010 2:21 PM PST
in Commentary
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STARTING LINEUPS & INJURIES
Paul Westphal hasn't actually hinted he'll change the starting lineup, though Ailene Voisins has reported as such. If he does, I would expect Francisco Garcia to enter the starting five, more likely for Omri Casspi than Beno Udrih. (I think Garcia in, Beno out would be good, though.) Tyreke Evans will definitely start at some position, with Carl Landry and Samuel Dalembert up front. Dalembert will be assigned to guard Amar'e Stoudemire.
Joining Stoudemire in the Knicks' starting five should be (based on Tuesday's game) Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and Danilo Gallinari. The fifth starter could be Timofey Mozgov (nine starts) at center or Wilson Chandler (two starts) at power forward, with Amar'e graduating to center. Ronny Turiaf could also get a surprise start at center, if Mike D'Antoni feels he needs a better defender than Stoudemire to guard Landry.
Everyone is available for the Kings. Everyone but Eddy Curry and Kelenna Azubuike is available for the Knicks.
SCOUTING REPORT
I implore you to check out HighTops' scouting report. My own follows.
The Knicks are a classic D'Antoni team with one serious obstruction: they are arctic cold from deep. Gallinari is a fine shooter currently at 30% on threes this year; that will change, as will the team's fortunes. Chandler is also likely a better shooter than his current play suggests, and Azubuike will help upon his return. Roger Mason probably deserves a look, too.
The Knicks haven't been bad defensively. The team does a good job creating turnovers, rebounding (a minor shock) and, like most D'Antoni teams, doesn't foul too much. The shot defense is bad, which could be good for the Kings, who haven't been hitting a great deal of their shots lately.
To me, the key is (as always?) attacking the rim. With the guards, with the bigs -- own the paint. New York had a much different roster last January, but I think we all remember Evans turning Madison Square Garden into his personal layup line. We need that energy and attempted domination from the get go.
MATCHUP OF THE GAME
Stoudemire vs. Dalembert. Amar'e is the only Knick who can threaten the Kings in the paint. If Dalembert can slow him down, make him inefficient, or push him away from the rim, it's going to be really hard for the Knicks to blow up, lest they hit all their threes. (And everyone knows the Kings don't struggle defensively on the perimeter, right?)
PLAYER TO WATCH
Tyreke Evans, because he's fun to watch, and because if the Kings have no interest in winning, we might as well watch that which entertains us.
DETAILS
7 PM tip at ARCO. Cheap tickets available. Comcast SportsNet and KHTK 1140 AM have the call. Aykis will be delivering the recap, with a View from Section 214 to follow tomorrow. Game threads at 7 and 8:30. Let's go Kings!
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Good stuff, TZ
Dalembert is the best Kings big at defending the pick & roll. And, with Felton and Amare playing together that’s something the KIngs are going to need.
No matter who starts at Center, the Knicks really have no one who’s a major scoring threat inside but they have 7 players who shoot better than 60% at the rim and Amare isn’t one of them. He’s only shooting 55% and he takes almost as many long 2’s as shots at the rim. For that reason, I’d let the Centers stay home in the paint and stop everyone else and not worry that much about Amare.
Let our PF’s play Amare straight up away from the basket, and bring the centers out to double him early when he tries to get into the paint. Make him make his outside shots and pass out of the double team to beat you. I works for other teams on Tyreke.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I'm not sure what you mean with your headline?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sorry, I meant that Tyreke and Amaré could be defended similarly
The real question…did you mean this:
I works for other teams on Tyreke.
A traitor in our midst!
100% all the time, no
but if you can double them away from the basket, you can force them to give up the ball. Detroit did that a lot in the 4th quarter, even to the point of doubling Evans in the backcourt in the 1st possession of the 4th quarter.
I’d take my chances with Amare beating us with his passing, even with our poor help defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Um, HT,
the quote he pulled from your post said “I works” not “it works” so what it essentially said was that you work against Tyreke for other teams.
Lead_pipe made a funny.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 17, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
The point I was trying to make is
that NY shoots 66% at the rim on 21.5 shots per game, and Amare only takes 4.5 of those shots and shoots 54.5%.
So, it seems overkill to take our low post goalie ( Dalembert) and put him solely on Amare. I’d rather let Amare get his shots and shutdown every one else trying to score at the rim. Especially, since NY takes so many 3 pters and shots them at such a low percentage.
I’d have our guards and wing looking for long rebounds off those missed shots and let the bigs shut down the paint and control the interior rebounds.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It's what teams do to us
They work hard to limit Tyreke, make him a jumpshooter – and make the other players beat them. Our other players haven’t been doing that so far.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't going to change either no matter how anyone slices it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Amare will be our biggest concern, player-wise
Hopefully, Dalembert does a good job. If DMC is on him, I’ll expect Cousins’ minutes be limited due to foul trouble. I doubt Landry will be able to guard Amare one on one.
Of course, the Kings’ perimeter defense is more like a half-guarded 3-point shooting drill..so that isn’t good either.
I think Landry could do OK on STAT
Amare doesnt play tall, with his back to the basket. Instead he’s quick and combined with his hieght he becomes tough to defend. Landry is pretty quick, so he might be able to keep with him.
Either that or its just wishful thinking and I really dont want to lose again.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Nov 17, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely, STAT gets' over half his baskets inside 10ft unassisted.
And, that’s why I think Clicc is right also, about Cousins getting into foul trouble trying to guard him. Even PW has said that Cousins can’t guard PF’s.
That’s why I feel we should guard him with our PF’s. We have 3 good ones with 18 fouls. Send them in there, not to foul on purpose but if he’s going to get an easy basket, use them.
The idea of a shut down defender is great, if you have stopped the rest of the team and one player is killing you. But, Dalembert was brought in to be a goalie and defensive rebounder, and to do that against the whole team and not just Amare.
Plus if Dalembert is covering Amare away from the basket, that make Landry our main defensive rebounder, and no one wants that.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I personally think that too much attention is being paid to Amare
Dont get me wrong he’s a great player…but, although its probably too early to say this, Raymond Felton is having a career year with NY right now..averaging about 16 and 8…i’d argue that he is more important to the offense than Amare…sure Amare can score but his 21ppg wont win the game…but if Felton gets people involved and Chandler and Gallinari hit their shots things will be difficult. As much as I appreciate Beno his defensive defficienies were clear for all to see in the Detroit game therefore I tend to agree with Ziller that Beno not starting would be a good thing. I think a backcourt tandem of Reke and cisco could better serve the Kings in this game.
by Error on Nov 17, 2010 4:00 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Remember when..
Donte outplayed Amare last year in Sac, when Amare was on the Suns. He played really good D on Amare and scored a good amount of points. Donte also had a 6 blocked shots, and 6 3pt fg’s game last year vs the Knicks. Tonight sounds like a perfect game to let him play!!
Free Donte
Let him play, Let him play
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Dear Coach Westphal,
Please play Donte Greene tonight, just in case he feels like doing THIS to the Knicks again.
Sincerely,
A Fan of Awesomeness
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 4:09 PM PST reply actions
Na, that must be photoshopped,
that can’t be the 11th best player on the 7th worst team in the NBA.
Actually, I really don’t think that Donte is the answer right now. He’s better than Wright or JT at the 3, but I wouldn’t expect him to come off the bench and pull a Beasley on NY. Donte wasn’t playing all that great in preseason. and riding the bench and living with the emotions that had to bring, would make it difficult for anyone.
I’d love to see him get some backup minutes at the 3 because he’s going to be playing against some pretty athletic guys at that position. But, for now I’d be happy to see him go 2-3 from 3pt range.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yeah, I don't really have particularly high expectations for Donte whenever he does eventually get some burn again.
I just wanted to post that clip. I was at that game, and Donte was incredible that entire game.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
Beno v. Cisco
I’m not sure it matters that much. Beno is a better and more consistent offensive player. Cisco is a better defender, but not nearly enough to make a huge difference on this team.
The nice thing about having Beno in the game is that Tyreke tends to pound the ball far too much. Beno may not have Tyreke’s assist numbers because he doesn’t dominate the ball as much, but he stil moves the ball more efficiently. Regardless of who starts, PW is going to have Beno in most games 30+ minutes. On our team, he’s too good offensively to leave on the bench.
So, go ahead and have the debate, but it’s not what’s going to make or break this team. They are both nice role players, but neither impact the game enough to make a huge difference on this bad of a defenisve team.
by Kusian on Nov 17, 2010 4:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Never start a land war in Asia or drink from a goblet that has iocane powder Kus.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I want to start a land war in Asia and WIN dammit.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
It's good to have goals.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
C'mon Kings, play some solid defense tonight!
Can’t let Amar’e Stoudamire have his way down low. Also, I hope they start knocking down their wide open shots, that would really help.
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
Grant said Luther will start for Beno and JT for Casspi but he was not sure 100%
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
Oh God.
Well…this should be interesting.
WTF are you thinking, Westphal?
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
No joke! He said it at around 5 today on his show!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
It makes no sense for Wesphal to do that.
The only reason (I guess) for JT and Luther to be in the starting lineup is to showcase their talents for a potential trade, but even that seems like a weak argument. Man I hate arguing with myself.
If PW does that he belongs in the asinine trade thread.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
LOL! Well Jason Jones just twited the starting lineup and Luther and JT are starting!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
He did not comment!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
OT: Anybody ever heard of Motion Tickets?
I looking into getting Kings tickets and this came up. It says they can email the tickets? Is this legit?
Jason Jones just tweeted the Starting Lineup
Reke, Head, JT, Landry, Dalembert.
I am going to need a lot of beer, and possibly someone to hold my head so it stops shaking.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I don't want any of them to even think about attempting a three pointer.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
I don't know what Luther's 3 point % is,
but ever time he launches one of his 3s it makes me cringe.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
He's 38% career, which is fine.
But he’s 4/17 (23%) this year.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
I'm pretty sure our bench could beat our starting lineup in a game of 5 on 5 pretty damn easy.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Beno, Cisco, Omri, Donté, Cousins
That looks better than this monstrosity.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
They'll probably win tonight
Therefore justifying the lineup, in PW’s mind.
by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 17, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
He wants to get fired?
And is trying to do so in the most passive aggressive way possible?
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I can't decide whether this is more funny than it is sad.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
Wow
I just…I just…uh…
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 17, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe this is our "Rope-a-Dope" lineup.
We let the other team pound our starting lineup for the better part of the first half, then when the let their guard down… BAM! We storm back in furious flurry!
“Who is this Craspi guy and why is he dropping treydels all over us?”
“Beno who? Holy F*ck, is that a Yeti?!?”
Next thing they know, they’re on the mat, and down for the count. Bravo, Mr. Westphal. Bra-freaking-vo.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I gotta say, though, I mentioned in my Fanpost possibly starting Head, and it does make a bit of sense to me.
The JT thing though has me baffled. Are there enough bench minutes for Cisco, Omri, and Beno to all get into the game and do their thing? Is JT really more deserving of minutes right now than all (or any) of those guys?
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
I....don't get it
Why play JT at the 3?? WHY??
I wish I could follow your shining example with lots of beer for this game, but sadly I don’t have any. Vodka will have to do.
"One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere, like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
I might have to make the switch
It could end up being a very incoherent and rambling recap after this game…
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Which will undoubtedly have entertainment value
Sadly I think I only have enough vodka for about 4 shots….so I’ll need to ration it. And/or go buy more at halftime.
"One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere, like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."
this is ridiculous
Terrible, terrible lineup. And when JT doesn’t do well at SF, he won’t play again for a few games.
by 8thInningWeirdness on Nov 17, 2010 6:21 PM PST reply actions
Probably this.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
by PurpleLoco on Nov 17, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Whats the really pissed off version of that
Because thats me right now.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Is this you?
“The thing is, Paul, we really don’t like the way you’re running things right now. I mean, starting JT at SF and Luther for Beno? You’re like, ‘Oh, it’ll be okay. It’s a good lineup.’ No, it isn’t. This is what I want to do to your face right now. Stop ruining our team.”
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Is he laughing?
or throwing up?
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Does it matter?
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Quote from Westphal
Courtesy of The Purple Panjandrum – http://hardcourtmayhem.com/kings/
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works."
Well hell, I’m inspired now!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
He's just effing with us now.
He’s tired of all the bitching about Donte, and this is how he’s getting back at us.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
Soon we will know our roles.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
And shut your mouth!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Be nice
Or I’m gonna polish something real nice, turn it sideways and shove it straight your candy Peaches. lol
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
LOL
I stopped watching that stuff when I was in high school, but I’d pay money today to watch him talk in the middle of a wrestling ring.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Same with me.
I’m 33 now, so I remember Hogan (when he was good) and Piper. I stopped watching it during HS as well, when the Rock and Austin were very big. There’s no doubt that the Rock was a talker like no other on that stage.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
PW, "Hey I got and idea...
Geoff, I suck as a coach. And I know your gonna fire me anyway. But I really want to keep my job. I’m gonna start JT and Head. You’ll see. This will fix the problem."
GP – /facepalm
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
Well the bottom line for me is the total minutes dispersal
The team’s gotten off to such a slow start of late that I have no problem with him mixing up the starting lineup a bit. But if Luther Head is getting starters minutes (30+), and the same for JT at the three…we could have a problem.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
The players in the starting lineup will not all get 30+ minutes. I refuse to believe that.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
Yeah, this HAS to be a move to try to start out a bit quicker
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I can understand the argument about minute dispersal, and how that is important.
I do however see a need in starting your best players. I just seems like the smart thing to do.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
Yeah, about that guarantee
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Nov 17, 2010 6:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I take back anything about you or otis being on the line for this one
At least you guys thought we were going to be putting a sane lineup out there.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I'm sticking with it
Westphal is the blind squirrel that finds a nut tonight…BOOK IT.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Thus making things worse for in the long run!
ALRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Damn, this is a double edged sword
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I kind of don't care.
I could use a nut right about now…
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
OT: 35 points for Chris Bosh.
Of course, it came against the Suns, who have zero interior D.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
Not that Bosh even has a classic interior game.
"Thank you, Coach (Theus). I'm about to kill y'all this half." --DeMarcus Cousins
Aha! I've solved the mystery!
I came across this transcript from a phone conversation between Geoff Petrie and, you guessed it, David Kahn:
GP: Hey, David, how it be, my man?
DK: Crazy as always, Geoff. What’s up?
GP: So, we’re looking for a playmaking guard. Someone young, quick, that can pass, maybe defend. What are the chances we might be able to take that stiff Flynn off your hands or that Spanish loser?
DK: Well, to be honest with you Geoff, anything is possible when you’re dealing with me. Absolutely anything.
GP: Great. You still stockpiling Small Forwards?
DK: Sure. Why not.
GP: We’ve got a couple that you’d love.
DK: Oh yeah?
GP: Ever heard of Donte Greene?
DK: Nope. But that doesn’t really mean anything. Is he any good?
GP: He’s fantastic. He’s so good, we don’t even play him.
DK: Seriously? I thought Coach Rambis was the only coach that understood that you shouldn’t play your best players.
GP: Even better, I think Donte has immense talent and potential, but just needs to land in the right situation before his career really takes off.
DK: Holy Moses, now you’re speaking my language!
GP: There’s someone else. Ever heard of Jason Thompson?
DK: Well yeah, that guy I’ve heard of. He’s a Small Forward?
GP: Yyyyeah. He sure is.
DK: Hmmm… I’ll have to check out your next game…
GP: Uhh, yeah… well, Jason may not play much for a couple of games, again because he’s just too good. But I’ll have the coach put him in the starting lineup soon just to trick… I mean, to show you that Jason Thompson is indeed a Small Forward.
DK: Great. Send me the tape. I’ll tell Flynn and the Spaniard to start house shopping over there.
GP: You’re the best, David.
DK: Smooches.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 17, 2010 7:19 PM PST reply actions
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