The View From Section214 - Kings/Knicks: Here We Writhe
by section214 on Nov 17, 2010 10:33 PM PST
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PrintI took a ton of notes at tonight's game, but it basically boiled down to a few rantdumb thoughts -
- The Kings built a 13 point lead by the end of the 1st quarter, and started the 2nd quarter with five bench players. The lead quickly evaporated.
- A more consistent version of Luther Head would be a nice running mate with Tyreke.
- There were perhaps 12,000 people in attendance, but fewer than 2,000 by the final buzzer.
- The Simpsons have been on TV for 22 years, and have never had a night at ARCO. But Glee has now had a night. Glee. Glee.
- There was a little random booing when the deficit grew to 14 with 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, with more booing when the Kings turned it over on a 24 second shot clock violation at around the 3 minute mark of the 3rd.
- The crowd got loud and into it when the Kings closed the gap to 7 with 8 minutes left in the game, and stayed in it up until the mass exodus when the Kings fell down 8 with 52 seconds left.
- I was pleased to see Evans feed the low post on multiple occasions. More, please.
- Donté played the last 20+ minutes of the game.
- I understand the Kings being budget-minded, but long-standing graffiti in the bathroom? Really, guys?
- And while we're at it, how about some wi-fi access for the fans? It would be nice to be able to access in-game stats on our smartphones, you know?
- I've mentioned before that this team does not so much have depth as it has width. So many players that bring about the same amount of positives and negatives to the table. Maybe it's time to bite the bullet, tighten the rotations a little bit, and see where that takes us for the next 30 days. It seemed to me that there were a lot of occasions where the Kings players were trying to figure each other out while on the floor. I'm certainly no expert and could be mistaken, but that's how it appeared to me.
Conversation starter - How much money would you be willing to bet on the Kings beating New Jersey on Friday night?
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I was at the game as well and saw it pretty much the same way you did Section
I’m getting off at the next stop of the Westphal Bandwagon. I think its just driving in circles.
As far as the bet, I’ll bet the cost of a shave and a haircut 60 years ago.
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
Oh and I never thought there'd be a show that annoys me more than American Idol
But I should never say never apparently because Glee seems to be that show.
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and agree,
Westphal needs to share a good portion of the blame right now. Hopefully things start to turn around because the Kings have been playing much too inconsistent as of late, to expect to win these ballgames against beatable teams. The shooting has been blech and the defense is yack sauce.
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
I BLAME...
the entertainment director…those kids should not have been allowed to sing…cuz they sucked…after they sang that crappy rendition of that “New York” song…the knicks went off and didn’t look back..
The glass is usually twice as big as it needs to be.
I was pleased to see Evans feed the low post on multiple occasions. More, please.
It needs to happen more often.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 17, 2010 11:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'll bet $1.67M as long as it's the Maloofs money.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
AHAHHAHAAAHHAAAA!
Keep up the good work HT!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
It was nice to see Donte for old time's sake.
Also, after the first quarter, I thought Cousins was going to have a breakout game. Then at one point in the second quarter Cousins ran to the top of the key for a pick and roll and just stood there bent over clutching his shorts for the whole clock.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
It was great to see Donte.
Should have seen him sooner if you ask me. His lenght and energy bothers players hes defending. At the same time we shouldnt be using Donte just as a stop gap defender last resort. Let him get into the flow of the game a bit. We saw last night that Donte can bring energy and will do whatever it takes on the court to stay there.
We need that positive energy on the court.
Im fuckin ready for some FOOTBALL!!!
by Robby1987 on Nov 18, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
•The Kings built a 13 point lead by the end of the 1st quarter, and started the 2nd quarter with five bench players. The lead quickly evaporated.
Those five were Cousins, Jackson, Udrih, Casspi and Garcia. 3 of them have been starters a significant amount of the season so far, so it’s not like that should have been much of a downgrade.
They spent time Figuring things out?
With the way guys rotated in and out they had time to do that?
A few notes,
Jackson was a terrible matchup for the Knicks and it showed.
Cisco should have been a good matchup – and it didn’t show.
Beno has lost all faith in his 3 ball. He has to take it anyway.
No one on this team has any idea how to switch off of screens and few how to fight through them.
When a 3 pt shooter gets hot, and he’s your man – don’t leave him to triple team Felton (Donte) or cheat off of them for any reason (many).
Cousins had a better game than it seemed – even though he got the double-double, he still wasn’t getting a lot of love out there. (yet) I thought almost zero of the defensive problems could be laid at his feet.
Sammy didn’t show up really, and tried to blame others a few times when he blew an assignment.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
No one on this team?
I was watching Donte guarding Galinari and Donte was getting thru Amare’s screens and the only time he didn’t he switched and ended up guarding STAT and basicly killed the play.
I said in TZ Preview that I didn’t think we should have Dalembert guarding Amare. He’s our goalie and with him on Stoudemire that left Landry as our defensive rebounder and that is never a good plan.
I thought that Head was a good choice by PW, better defense, equal ball handling and almost as good a scorer as Beno. But, JT at the 3 cost us points on offense, and not letting our PF’s defend Amare, took Dalembert out of his offensive and defensive game.
Cousins had a remarkable game and was dominate around the rim. His most glaring weakness to trying to drive past Turiaf instead of just backing him down and getting go position before he made his move. Trying that quick drive too far from the paint only leads to his traveling calls and getting out of control. Put the ball on the floor big man, then back him down until your ready to make your move.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
You don't rememeber him ('e) leaving Gali
while Felton was driving into a double team – then giving up the 3? Landry was good except for perimeter D where he obviously got fooled/confused several times.
Well there were so many mistakes on D its hard to talk about them all, there weren’t that many ‘he made a good shot with a hand in his face’ 3s last night.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
I remember the 3, it was the only Field Goal Gali got in the 2nd half.
but I was commenting on the Screens. I thought Head did a good job getting thru also, I only brought up Donte because you said No One, and that sequence in front of the Kings bench stood out to me during the game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yes, I did see Head
Thankfully go over some screens instead of under them. Though I remember one in particular where he didn’t and just stood behind (Chandler I think?) while Douglas (I think) canned a 3 ball.
No one was innocent and very few if any of the 6 3s NY hit were with a hand in the face.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Also, regarding that 3,
wasn’t it the first defensive sequence of the game for Donté? He hasn’t played since, what, the first half against Minnesota? It was frustrating but excusable, at least to me.
Westphal needs to stop being a wise old grumpy wizard with his glowing white locks
and start being a coach. Play to win, not to prove a point.
by KingsSince1990 on Nov 18, 2010 12:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I can't fault this loss to Westphal at all
He didn’t cause players to miss wide open shots, or make poor decisions, or decide not to play with energy in the 2nd quarter.
There is only so much a coach can do. Would I like the rotation to be more consistent? Yes. But that loss was ALL on the players, especially the ones who played that 2nd quarter and lost the lead within 5 minutes.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
couple things i noticed in the arena
sorry if im saying some stuff that has already been said
- donte looked very tentative, as ive seen other people saying. he passed on some shots im sure caspi or garcia take without thinking. i think its understandable and im almost positive if he gets more playing time he will take those shots. also he found ways to contribute even tho the offense was just about never run thru his side of the court. i was shocked he got into the game not just because of the last few weeks but also because during the warmups before the 3rd quarter he stood on the side and barely did anything. last donte note, i dont know if it was picked up on tv but in the arena the crowd was OBVIOUSLY on his side. the cheered as he was announced coming in (maybe the kings are privy to this as well because not every substitution is announced with the enthusiasm that was giving to donte coming in) and he got loud cheers with every think he did, especially the steal and dish to beno.
- tyreke’s game worried me, he seemed detached from the team. 1 alarming play to me was in i think the 2nd quarter he was fouled on a layup attempt and was surrounded by 3 knicks, no knicks helped him up (understandable) and also no kings helped him up, until at the last second luther head came and gave him a hand. maybe im nitpicking but it struck me as odd. also he made some very selfish plays and i felt blew the game with the bad shot and bad pass at the end.
-carl landry was unguardable. amare had nothing for him
- i think if both reach full potential cousins will be better than tyreke. i may be in the minority here but cousins can be such a force. and the difference is cousins play can make the team better. and we finally got to see some of that energy work positively when he went absolutely bonkers after he knocked the ball out on landry fields. i am much more excited for cousins future than reke’s (not that im not excited about reke)
- last thing, there was a play when udrih drove and jumped and tried to pass to donte in the corner, and had it picked off by a knick. he went ballistic on donte on the way back up the court. beno was PISSEd. im guessing he wanted donte to go to the corner
it was the most exciting game ive been to so far this year (i missed the lakers and memphis games) with a lot of exciting plays.
i really want to see a tighter rotation. there has to be a way to have donte involved that doesnt completely compromise omri’s minutes
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
there is...
there’s plenty of ways donte can get on the floor without compromising omri’s minutes. he could play part of 3 that omri plays, and also play part of 2 while shifting evans to the 1 position. heck, he could even play some 4 – against smaller 4’s like a carl, lewis, turkoglu. don’t get me wrong, i think darnell jackson is great for what he does, but i believe donte will be a lot more effective as he could shot the 3’s as you saw. head and garcia should he change of pace guys. they should be on the floor when you want to run the floor a lot and have an up tempo plan along with omri because that’s what they do.
also, i did not like dalembart on amare as well. they should have gotten thompson in more to do that or throw carl there and live with the jumpers. and i didn’t like that gallanari had 17 free throws!! he made 16 of them!! wtf!! shouldn’t have put thompson there because he’s just not quick enough sometimes, and they should play a better rotation/cover if thompson is going to play the 3. what PW should have done was throw in donte a lot sooner or rather even play garcia on gallanari.
Donte did play some 4 in yesterdays game.
for a time the line up was Cousins, Donte, Cisco, Head & Tyreke, if I’m not mistaken.
Thompson at the 3 continues to be the biggest Bludder of PW’s rotations this season. He lost Galinari twice than ran out to contest the shot and fouled him beyond the arc and sent him to the line for 6 FT’s. Gali only had 8 in the first half. Plus JT missed 2 point blank shots and only scored 2pts in 12minutes.
JT has averaged 5pts and 4rebs in 15mpg over the last 3 games. Which I think is great playing behind Landry at the 4, where he is at his best getting put backs off the offensive glass. But, we cant afford our SF to average 5pts per game especially when were giving up 30 or more at that position.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Wait
JT has averaged 5pts and 4rebs in 15mpg over the last 3 games. Which I think is great playing behind Landry at the 4, where he is at his best getting put backs off the offensive glass. But, we cant afford our SF to average 5pts per game especially when were giving up 30 or more at that position.
Are we giving up 30 or more at that position per game? Or in the 15 minutes that JT is playing?
I’m thinking you aren’t going apples to apples here.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
if true this is not surprising re reke
At any level, you tend to get tired of running the floor and never, ever getting the pass as your superstar makes the ball fake and shoots it himself. I can’t say how many times I have seen 2 or 3 on 1’s that should have been layups but instead wind up as 2 evans free throws. He actually did pass late to beno yesterday (and I mean LATE) but it was obvious that he did it because he had no choice -beno was so surprisedhe missed the shot (but got the follow)
Another time I went “wow reke actually made a fundamental pass on a 2 on 1” and I was impressed until I realized that it was actually donte
The last two coffin sealing plays seemed to be a type of “beno made some good plays, now its MY turn” mentality and we saw the result… That floater from the left baseline was awful
I could go on and on about the"new shot" (yuck) & some other things but lets just say I am far from convinced that tyreke is the future of this franchise – if this franchise is going to be successful that is
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 5:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
it was just one game
but it really did change my perception of what his place in the organization should be. after reading reports saying teammates had gotten tired of his play and the overall organization favoritism it really stood out to me. his style of play was so polarizing.
also the pass to beno ur talking about, he had cousins ahead and open and ignored him completely. beno missed the layup when he got the pass from reke tho (and made a tip in of his own miss) so reke didnt get the assist lol. its cool to know im not the only one who feels that way about reke
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 6:37 AM PST up reply actions
yep, Cuz was ahead on that play and reke didnt reward the big guy for running the break… instead he looked for his own shot first then decided to dish it to beno on the last second of that play….
the thing is, it seems the whole team tends to adjust to reke’s game… i really hate his iso plays… i would rather have the kings pass the ball around and move…. they tend to stand when reke goes to his selfish iso plays…
by pakyubai on Nov 18, 2010 6:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
"organizational favoritism"
Is right on. I don’t even really blame reke as much as westphal. The kid has been playing this way his whole life, it has got him untold accolades and millions of dollars, and obviously he has not been told to be less selfish (or if he has, there are clearly no consequences for his failure to do so)
I have no problem with him taking his man to the hoop when its there. But we don’t need to be CALLING the iso play when everyone in the gym knows what’s coming. Westphal looks completely clueless I am afraid to say.
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 8:08 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
He IS clueless.
We dont run plays, or have a rotation thus far into his time here. How do players gel together if they are playing with someone new everynight? Start your 5 players you want to build around. This is still a rebuilding situation Mr. Westphal.
Im fuckin ready for some FOOTBALL!!!
Westphal's Starting 5 is like a random lottery quick-pick.
How are the players and team chemistry going to improve?
In order to produce a little consistency in results, how bout keeping a solid core of players on the floor who know their roles and expectations! The Kings led the league last year in starting 5 roster changes. Its time for coach to stop tinkering with the roster – and start substituting the same players and regular intervals.
I'm not sure I agree with you about 'Reke, but missing DMC on that break was poor
He looked RIGHT at him.
Kinda quick to say he isnt the franchise, dont you think?
We have all seen that Tyreke has an incredible ability to get inside and find a way to drop the ball into the bucket. His passing at times can be beautiful at other times can be just plain off base (running around till there is no time on the clock dump offs).
Lets take a breath here folks. Calm down, the KID is 21 years old. As great as Cousins looked at times yesterday, there was a play that made you scratch your head. Its the growth process with a young team. We as fans are growing tired of losing, I get that. Give him time to learn how to play the position.
I think Westphal needs to go. The team looks like they have ZERO chemistry on the court. What happend to Tyreke and Beno running well together? Everything looks off and the blame has to go to the coach here.
We havnt had a consistant line up in his tenure. By now you should have a few set guys. Maybe you shuffle the bigs but dont force JT to play SF because you have to many big men. Donte showed yesterday that he is more then competent enough to be on the court.
Its clear we are still another season away from turning the corner. Start Cousins and force him to learn how to manage his fouls alot better. Keep Carl in the line up and bring him back next year. Start Omri but keep Donte in the rotation. Beno is just god awful at defending his man, hes just limited by ability. I dont mind him as the first guy off the bench for instant offense.
Dalembert looks confused and he puts our offense outta wack. I see now why Sixer fans never loved him as the starting center. Still his ability to swat shots and grab boards is much needed off the bench.
We need a PG that can hit the three and defend. That would atleast make these games watchable.
Im fuckin ready for some FOOTBALL!!!
by Robby1987 on Nov 18, 2010 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Some good thoughts
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
i wouldnt say hes not the franchise
my thing is there are red flags here that really bother me. the ones listed and his style of play can damage the team at times. i agree with the guy above, i dont blame tyreke at all. the organization pushed for this, at times sacrificing the team for it. he is a special talent i think he IS developing bad habits here. and i can see where, even tho he is a quite guy, he rubs his teammates the wrong way with his play.
i know his ability and his amazing knack to get to the rim and make insane layups, but there are way too many times where he gets into the paint and takes bad shots all at the expense of the team
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
I don't disagree,
but the same things were said about the young Michael Jordan and the young Kobe Bryant and (to a lesser extent) the young Dwyane Wade. And it was pretty much always said about Allen Iverson.
Now, I’m not saying that Evans is going to ascend to the level of the players mentioned above. But at his age and experience, he is actually right in the range of these guys when they were this young and inexperienced.
Kevin Durant was a chucker in his first season, and his game did not begin earning overall respect until a couple of months had passed in his second season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
It wasn't until his 3rd season that he got nationwide respect.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Remember Hollinger saying he was overrated
really criticising his game going into last season (his third) where he ended up being perhaps the MVP.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Though I don't think
with the game on the line it was time to prtice that floater from the wing that isn’t really partof his regular arsenal. Seriously bad decision on top of (or right before?) the kick out for a TO when he clearly should have tried to score.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Are you talking about Durant or Evans?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
it looked like he wasnt sure if he wanted to bank it or not
the shot looked so bad..
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
my worry is
that the organization is allowing these tendencies to develop further, and even at times encourage it. i dont know if westphal is the coach that can help reke develop a less selfish game.
look at those you mentioned kobe and mike had phil jackson, iverson had larry brown and wade had riley and to a lesser extent shaq
durrant is still a chucker, lol.
i hope reke develops the things we would all like to see, better defense, better jumper (i think its coming along) learns how to make teammates better etc.
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
I didnt say that
I said I’m not convinced he can be the cornerstone of a winning franchise in the future due to the reasons I stated. The he’s only 21 stuff doesn’t fly too far with me. If he’s getting the praise he deserves the criticism also.
And I dont think its quick to say he’s a selfish player. He’s played over a full years worth of games and I have seen almost all of them. He hasn’t changed a bit. He never rewards his teammates on the break and passes in the half court only when forced to. Please don’t cite his assist stats. I could get 5 apg playing with nba players if somebody let me dribble around for 30 minutes a game.
I have argued against people who said he was a ball hog and didn’t pass enough but now I have changed my mind
A couple other points in response to various people … Failing to reward your teammates on the break is not something to blame on an nba coach. Someone who has been playing at the top level for years like reke should know that by now. Its basketball sense as well as common sense. I blame westphal for not reining him in but he’s not innocent.
Also, I don’t think you can compare a ball dominant pg to wing players like k#$e, jordan and durant with shot selection issues. A scary comparison that I would make is stevie franchise. But stevie could shoot.
I hope reke can change his game and be who he could be. I hope he learns to make an effort on defense and pass the ball far more often. I don’t see anyone in this current regime with the balls to make him do it.
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 9:50 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think it's fine to criticize 'Reke
But if you’re going to make a grand pronouncement about his future based on what you’ve seen of him at this point, expect some pushback.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I wouldn't say im making a grand pronouncement
But I do expect a certain pushback when criticizing him, he’s our “GUY”
I want him to succeed but he needs to be held accountable for his part in this team s struggles. He’s the man, its being run through him and done his way and it ain’t working
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 10:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with all of this
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I do worry
that some of these little things with Tyreke will pile up: the not rewarding others on fast break, the lazy defensive close outs, the apparent locker room jealousies, the pounding away fourteen seconds of the shot clock, and he will turn out to be Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, or Steve Francis rather than the perennial all-NBA player that he has both the talent and skill to be. I think how he is coached is going to be a major factor.
by MichaelMack on Nov 18, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Those complaints existed about Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson.
Those franchises didn’t exactly trade any of them at the first sign of problems. Dynamic talent is dynamic talent, and Tyreke Evans is a dynamic talent. These problems will exist any time you’re trying to win games.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But, as noted above by thebitb
Those great players had great coaches to rein them in.
Westphal, not so much.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 18, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry.
I didn’t realize Allen Iverson was so brilliant in his first season under Larry Brown. And, I don’t remember Phil Jackson having to go through Michael Jordan’s growing pains. Oh yeah, that was Doug Collins. And, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal managed to get Del Harris and Kurt Rambis canned in the same calender year.
Did great coaches, time, or both rein in these players? I don’t know. I do know that the great coach argument makes no difference with the youth of this team.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pookey
I never suggested a trade. I never said that those players didn’t have similar complaints early in their careers. I acknowledged his degree of talent. My worry is that Tyreke doesnt have the same growth as those other players.
by MichaelMack on Nov 18, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Shouldn't you be worried at the time where it's appripriate rather than finding something to worry about?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
When should I worry
I would think the time to worry about a player’s development would be in his first few seasons. Is there a better time?
by MichaelMack on Nov 18, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think it's as simple as saying a player should develop all these things in the first few seasons.
Establish yourself as a NBA player certainly, but I don’t think it’s as simple as establishing one’s self in the area’s we’re discussing. I don’t think it’s that black & white.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think we are on the same topic
I am not one who thinks that Tyreke should be modeling his game off of Deron Williams, or be a pass first point guard, nor do I see him as selfish as some of the more excitable posters on here today. I see a lack of recognition on offense and inconsistent effort on defense, and wonder (worry) if that improves with experience or is that a basic part of who he is.
by MichaelMack on Nov 18, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
How are we going to know that until we see him in his 4th or 5th season?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The 3rd year should indicate how his career will begin to go
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 18, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
That's fair.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would prefer to see how his career would "begin" to go right now, and then see some large improvements in the 3rd year
I am not saying he needs to be a finished product now, but what worries me is that he seems to be making no progress – and actually might be regressing.
some of it is coaching (which he seems to get none of other than “reke go iso”)… but as i mentioned above, i see signs of selfishness and lack of court sense that you just can’t blame on paul westphal
Well if you're going to see how his career will begin to go now
Then we should wait till the end of the season. Then you’ll have a better idea.
It’s okay to have the worries (it comes with the territory of being a fan) , but I don’t think we should be quick to judge over 10 games.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
Small Sample Sizes?
What are those.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
he's been showing signs of selfish play for 81 games now
Let me know how many more we need to see before it’s statistically significant
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 4:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Really?
Averaged better than 7 assists a game after the break last year and was selfish. Interesting take.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Isn't that more assists
than the entire team had last night?
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
He played a ton of minutes and always had the ball
Im sure you think you’ve successfully mocked my point of view but I would disagree
How do you feel about a 1.92 ast/to ratio?
I bet if you asked omri casspi or jason thompson or any of his other teammates (under truth serum of course) who have busted their ass down the court only to result in a tyreke 1 for 2 from the stripe they’d agree with my “interesting take”
I bet quite a few nba gms would agree with my “interesting take”
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 4:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
His assist/to ratio last year
was on a par with fellow rookie PG’s Stephen Curry and Johhny Flynn. Are they also selfish?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
My point was that you can't use assist stats to show someone isn't selfish
Probably not the best point ive ever made but I don’t buy yours either really…
Lots of what I would call rekes selfish play ends in made or missed shots or fouls anyway
To take your question seriously although I don’t think you intended it that way, I would not consider curry selfish at all, and I don’t think I’ve seen little jonny play for one minute in the nba
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 7:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hey, I'm just some anonymous dumbass on a blog, but do you put any stock in what Sam Amick writes?
“In terms of the Xs and Os, Evans’ sixth foul against the Timberwolves on Wednesday said everything about why his teammates so often scratch their heads and the collective frustration builds, as he ran the break alone (which says plenty on its own) and barreled into three defenders before the accurately-called charge put him out of action with 9:02 remaining. Simple plays like those, or the countless times when Evans doesn’t reward the teammates who run with him for their efforts, are at the root of a problem that Westphal must solve.”
i just found that article, maybe its been discussed to death on here, doesn’t really matter
but for you to try to suggest that there is no issue with tyreke being a selfish player and then snarkily debunk my point with an assist stat is, well, not too strong
I just think that
you have an severe overreaction based on a relatively small amount of data. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. And I’m entitled to call it an interesting take. If that’s too strong for you, I apologize.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And
maybe someday a current or former teammate will talk about how unpleasant it is/was to play with Tyreke, but it simply has not happened yet. Has-not-happened.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Come on, you saw the spencer hawes cartoon right?
Do you Really think anyone is going to speak out against mr 20 5 5 in this town?
Because they don’t say anything in public doesn’t mean they don’t think it. I have seen body language ( repeatedly from omri in particular ) that suggests they would appreciate the occasional pass.
it gets tiresome to play with a ball hog for one game on the pick up courts and I suck – I can’t imagine how frustrating it would be to be an nba level player and STILL never get the rock
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 7:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Because they don’t say anything in public doesn’t mean they don’t think it.
Nor does it mean that they do.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
True enough
Speculation on my part based on my knowledge of basketball and human nature, very reasonable speculation imo
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 7:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think I'm overreacting, if I am it's not severe
And I don’t think the sample size is that small.
Agree to disagree, hey, I hope im wrong
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 7:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
A player should never be judged for their first season
A first season is merely a flash of what a player can become. There was a lot of selfish play, but he also showed signs of selfless play.
And 10 games into his second season is just way too small a sample to be judging upon.
I think what you are witnessing is merely a case of old habits dying hard. Have patience.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
A NBA star being selfish?
Really? OH MY FUCKING GOD, LET THE EARTH DISINTEGRATE AS IT CAN NO LONGER FUNCTION HAVING A SELFISH NBA STAR. /sarcazm
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pookey
Your comments usually make a good point, and are often humorous.
by lchristmas on Nov 19, 2010 11:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well, since the next to the last paragraph seems to refer to me...
May I present the list of fine playmaking guards that played next to these “wing” players that I mentioned. Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong, Fisher, Chalmers…do any of these guys sound like great playmakers?
I just think that you are rushing to judgment. We have no idea what kind of player this kid is destined to be. I agree 100% that there is a lot of room for improvement, and that he should be held accountable for his mistakes. Where I disagree is with the notion that you can begin to define or pigeon hole his game at such a young age. I think that he has to complete this year (at the very least) before you can begin to make solid statements about what type of player he will become.
That was my point as it pertained to the players that I mentioned – they all had reputations as ball dominant chuckers when they first came into the league. And while Bryant/Jordan/Wade may not have been point guards, the offense definitely ran mostly through them, and they historically led their teams in assists. My blind arse guess is that this is the direction that we will see Evans head in.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
There was a time when Michael Jordan was a selfish me first prick who only cared about scoring.
Unfortunately, the sands of time have sort of let this message wither away as Jordan selling sneakers is more important now.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
i like
the paxon kerr armstrong fisher chalmers point. i do think beno can work as the pg and thats probably because im part of the group that thinks tyreke is NOT a point guard. ive always thought tyreke would eventually fall into the dwayne wade mold of a sg in a big pg body. i think their games are similar (although wade drives to the rim with reckless abandon and plays ABOVE the rim, reke definitely below).
the reason why reke’s play is so worrisome to me is the rumblings that his play is rubbing his teammates the wrong way.
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
offense
how much of that is the offensive game plan though? you listed a bunch of guys in the triangle (except for chalmers) – where you don’t need to even have a pg on the floor. kings aren’t running the triangle. the flex they are running is more dependent on a pg running the show.
Some excellent thought Robbie
I wouldn’t mind if Mrio Ellie was PW’s replacement
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
…1 alarming play to me was in i think the 2nd quarter he was fouled on a layup attempt and was surrounded by 3 knicks, no knicks helped him up (understandable) and also no kings helped him up,
I saw that as well, he was on the ground for a good 4 or 5 seconds waiting for someone to come over.
The most alarming thing to me is that
nobody is telling him to stop leaving his feet without a plan. That has to be one of the most fundamental things a point guard (or any player really) should know, and to have it actually get worse throughout the season is baffling to me
Darko Milicec passes just as well as Vlade Divac... Vlade would be the first to tell you that
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Right, he had some real clunkers in this regard
One of things that amazes me about the elite distributing guards (Paul, Rondo, Nash types) is how they’re able to move around the floor without losing their dribble. I’d say that’s not exactly in Tyreke’s repertoire.
by lead_pipe on Nov 18, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would love to see Tyreke start shaping his game around Deron Williams
I know that there would be differences in their styles ultimately, but the weaknesses I see in Tyreke’s game are strengths of D-Wills, so if he can learn from Williams, and add those skills to his current repertoire, he would be such a monster I couldn’t even fathom it.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Do you think
the slow pace he brings the ball up the court is actually giving him too much time to think? To 2nd guess?
He’s so scary when he comes charging across midcourt at speed that I think it might really open up some shots for others.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think he should rely on one way or the other
He should learn to control the tempo of the game. If we are getting too fast and becoming out of control, slow the pace down, and set up a play. OR, like last night when I think we were playing way too slow at the end when we needed a run, then speed it up and catch them on their heels. A good guard should be able to control that tempo.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I've thought
that those really good point guards are always probing the defense – dribbling through, seeing how the defenders react, allowing their guys to move in an out…I think Tyreke could use some of that. Beno does it decently. That type of ‘pounding the rock’ is preferable to Tyreke’s ‘Crossover Dance’ at the top of the three point line whn he commits to driving or pulling up.
He'll learn.
He has to, because defenses are geared towards stopping his “Crossover Dance” right now.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 18, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
reke
thats why i hate reke’s game… dude doesnt reward guys that run the break with him… he forces alot of things up and sleeps on defense… i wouldnt be surprised if his teammates are pissed with the way he plays… dribble dribble penetrate or dribble dribble pass with little time on the clock…. looking at his stats he might have gotten his average but looking at the game speaks for itself….
sorry for this rant, but if u are percieved as the kings superstar then at least lead by example…
by pakyubai on Nov 18, 2010 6:31 AM PST via mobile reply actions
and then there is
dribble, dribble, dribble
Purveyor of Bull Plop
using 14 seconds
of the 24 second clock to start getting into the offense is inexcusable.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
after last nights game...
I feel we have not made any adjustments that are having a significant impact on outcomes…
I believe we need to Start Demarcus and see what happens….
Go Kings, I still have hope that we can beat a non-playoff team again this season at Arco.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
btw
how bad was the play towards the end of the game where reke got screened and basically stop playing, leaving galo with a wide open jumper on the baseline (that he fortunately missed).
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
It was a switch situation and the other guy didn’t come out.
Reke was like “…..wtf man?” and justifiably so.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 18, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
He's still supposed to rotate to him
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 18, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
You're right
depending on who you mean by “he”. Reke was screen and should have followed the man who screened him.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 18, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Disappointed
Man I’m just so disappointed with what’s going on with this team. Poor coaching, poor defense, no chemistry, no consistency in any aspect, players seemed to be pouting now…… it goes on and on and on.
I am not excited about even watching the games anymore. I missed the first half last night and for the first time in a while I totally didn’t care because they’re playing so dang awful. I think they need to make a trade quick and balance out their roster – they have too many bigs, not enough guards/shooters.
by Mad Hops on Nov 18, 2010 9:19 AM PST via mobile reply actions
"Im certainly no expert" ??
trying not offend anyone? How about, shorten the rotations Westphal, you stubborn ass. Commentators and writers all over remark on his “unusual” substitution patterns and we all know it hurt this team last year and maybe even more this year. It’s almost random. No Greene for numerous games and then the last 20 minutes of this game?
I was watching the players closely at timeouts and dead-balls and the players on the floor would shyly look to the bench like an 8th grade team who never knew when they were in or out.
Start:
Evans
Udrih
Greene
Landry
Dalembert
Sub:
Head
Garcia
Casspi
Jackson
Cousins
That’s it. Play the starters consistent minutes, every game.
The players on the bench looked demoralized and disinterested with 8 minutes to go. I’m not a Westphal fan anymore.
Thats still a ten man rotation
and few good teams go that deep with any real minutes for guys 9 and 10.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Actually,
I’m not an expert. Unlike others, I am happy to disclose that before I render my opinion. I’m sorry if that offends you.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Maybe Darwin AND Mike Judge got it right. In equal measures.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
wifi-
i’ve sent in the wifi comment a couple different times to different folks and obviously they haven’t done anything about it. you can see they have wifi set up for the media, don’t see why they can’t accomodate the fans too.
Put me down as favoring the firing of Westphal.
It isn’t our record, it is or lack of growth – or for that matter, the complete lack of identity.
Are we a transition team? Do we pound the ball inside? Do we space the floor for Tyreke? Do we let Tyreke be primary ball handler? Who are we starting? Who are we subbing? Why is JT playing ANY minutes at the 3? Is this team remotely constructed for anything we are trying to do – it pounding inside, why didn’t/haven’t we signed any stud shooters?
This team seems to currently have no plan at all. I can’t even state how poor a job I believe that Westphal has done. I LOVED Tyreke last year, but I find it fairly obvious that he is regressing. Enough with the notion that his shot has improved – it hasn’t. (Oddly, his free throw shooting HAS). The dude is making horrible decisions and there appear to be NO ramifications for any of them. Sit his butt down when he doesn’t play team ball. I don’t give a crap if it pisses him off. Enough with the ‘kid gloves.’
Cousins has been fantastic with the exception of shot selection. If he shoots a three – JERK HIM OUT OF THE GAME IMMEDIATELY. This must be discouraged at all costs (unless the shot clock demands it.)
Who is teaching these guys “D?” I don’t even care about Beno’s lack of “D” when he is busting his butt, however, often times the lack of intensity is inexcusable. Whenever that happens, Westphal should pull a Phil Jackson and just insert bench guys for a while. Our ‘culture’ on this team is ridiculous. Accountability and effort – or you DON’T PLAY. This includes every member of the Kings.
Last night was an abomination, and frankly Tyreke is probably the biggest reason why.
(Finally – WHAT is with Reke’s finishing this year? He is missing layups BADLY.)
Westphal just doesn’t seem to be teaching these guys anything at all. I just see rudderless weakness. I’d love to see some toughness instilled.
Well it is pretty hard to learn defense in "Counseling Sessions"
Darko Milicec passes just as well as Vlade Divac... Vlade would be the first to tell you that
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
DMC hasn't shot a 3 in many (6) games now
I think that message at least was given and heard. He’s taken 6 all season, 4 in one game (6 games ago) and one of the other two was a buzzer beater attempt.
I don’t agree Tyreke is regressing, he had some nice interior passing recently – but he isn’t progressing in that area all that smoothly to be sure. Do they need to start holding him accountable more? Probably. Do they do so in film session and practice rather than in public? Hopefully.
As for the team identity part of your post, I absolutely agree. What team are we?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
You are correct about the threes.
I hated them SO much that they probably seemed more present to me than they really are. I was concerned with Cousins shots against the Knicks briefly – although he actually hit them. I don’t mind him taking an elbow jumper now and then as long as 85% of the time he is on the block. He actually was fairly responsible in his shot selection last game.
And hopefully he realizes that it equated with his best game so far.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
small change
noticed last night they updated all the menus at the concessions – a little surprised they spent the money on new boards when it is basically the same menu.
i know the previous director of arena operations and he left this year to go run the U of Oregon arena and spend some of that Nike money. be curious if they make any additional changes in the arena because basically he never had a budget to do anything.
not just that but reke seemed not to develope an outside shot yet…. derrick rose cant shoot his first year but greatly improved his jumpshot in his 2nd year…. maybe its just reke’s confidence but i dont really see any improvements there….
by pakyubai on Nov 18, 2010 10:17 AM PST via mobile reply actions
The jumpshot did improve...
but, what happens in any sport when changing your fundamentals, is when it becomes gametime and you are trying to do anything to score, it is very easy to revert back to what feels comfortable for you. I think this is what I’m seeing in Tyreke. For the first few games, I saw the improved shot, but now some of the tendencies are coming back, such as the foot kicking out and him fading away. It takes time to really force new fundamentals and make put them into muscle memory. As long as he keeps working on it he should be fine in terms of his jumpshot
Darko Milicec passes just as well as Vlade Divac... Vlade would be the first to tell you that
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Good point, " It takes time to really force new fundamentals"
and, although the 3pt shot is somewhat more efficient because of the extra point, it is the most difficult shot to hit for percentage. And, that’s why I as against him trying to change his form and develop a 3pt shot at the same time.
I thought with his ability to penetrate, a short to mid range jumper was the way to go. LIke Beno’s stop & pop, or the way Martin use to get into the paint and elevate. It would help keep the defense guessing if he wasn’t always going all the way to the rim on every drive.
He’s never going to hit the 3 at a high percentage this year, and it only makes it more difficult to ingrain the new improvements in his jumper.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Both
of those player’s shot’s you mentioned are excellent examples for Tyreke to develop.
by MichaelMack on Nov 18, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I almost feel that they just assumed that if he learned a 3 point shot
that everything closer would automatically be there. Either that or they know that he’s either at the top of the arc dribbling, or at the rim laying it up, never between. I feel his name should be Tyreke Electron. You know, cuz he is either in one energy level, or the other, never actually existing between them, but somehow still moving through them, essentially existing in both for an instant in time.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 18, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
I'll bet $5 bucks on just about anything.............................................but
honestly right now I wouldn’t bet any more than that on the Kings against the worst teams in the league head to head and expect to win. We are going to have another top 5 lottery pick this season.
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
Cool!
The Lottery is exciting.
/apathetic
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 18, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
It's just sad that this is what excites us these days.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 18, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Despite the general level of negativity in here, I enjoyed this game
In fact, in many ways this was the team I expected to see this season. Was the defense terrible? Yes. Were there head-scratching moments on offense? Absolutely. Questionable line-ups? Well, why deviate from the norm!
That said, there was a lot to like from the Kings last night. Landry was beastly down low- was that the first gorilla dunk of the season? DMC showed a lot of everything- some great moves at the basket (including a number of near misses), great quickness pursuing rebounds, and most importantly, looks almost all of the time like he wants to win and is trying to do so.
Ultimately, what did we really expect from the Kings this season? I got what I wanted- a young team making loads of mistakes but, for the most part, putting out a solid effort. When we were all excited for the team last season it was because, for the first time in a while, they appeared to be trying. This year, it’s the same team, with a few new pieces and a new, higher ceiling. The Memphis game was disgraceful, and the Minnesota game may as well been the Apocalypse. This was what I imagine we hoped we’d have- young guys trying to figure it out. I’ll take it.
by lead_pipe on Nov 18, 2010 10:57 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd
for Gorilla Dunk!
I loved when that Rockets fan came over here after we acquired Top Hat and told us to look out for Gorilla Dunks.
Also rec’d cause I enjoy watching these games and this team, too. The rotations and the playing time are fuckin mysteries, tho…
I don't think even the most pessimistic prognosticators
Would have said we would be losing consistently to awful teams at home
If you really enjoyed that I have some “duane causwell and travis mays: the two man game” instructional videos on beta that you might be interested in
by lchristmas on Nov 18, 2010 12:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I know this is skewed
by Sammy’s injury and DMC fouls , but using minutes per game the top 5 are Reke(37) Udrih (34) Lansdry (30) Casspi (26) and Garcia (25).
This explains why are rebounding margin has not been as good as we hoped.
The next Cousins and Dalembert (23 each) and Head (16).
As our 3rd best rebounnder JT, at a minimum, should be getting the 20 minutes available at a 4 or 5 that Landry DMC and Landry are not getting.
There is currently 36 minutes behind Reke Beno and Omri. I think Garcia has earned most of those, but any remaining is a pick em between Greene or Head.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
my takes
- Evans is 2-15 from 3 in the last 6 games. I am guessing his numbers are similar to that on deep 2’s or anything outside of 10 feet. Why in the world is Westphal allowing TE to take 2.5 3’s per game???? I will continue to compare him to Tony Parker and Rondo, PGs who cant shoot, BUT THEY DONT, cause it hurts the team and the offense. People are talking about how frustrated the teammates get with his dribble dribble dribble and drive, imagine on his jumpers, just put your head down and get back on D.
- Westphals rotations are KILLING us! He has got to go or else pick 8 players and go with it.
- JT should never get another minute at the 3. We already started 2 offensive players who cant shoot outside 10 feet, hey lets add another at the 3!! All the Knicks announcers kept talking about in the 1st qtr was that they were surprised they werent down more with the 3-22 start. I was thinking the exact same thing.
- Why did Casspi barely play last night? He has been maybe our most consistent player and gets stuck on the bench behind JT and then Donte?
- We need a gunner 2 guard that can spread the floor. Arenas, JR Smith, etc.
- Sad dark times when the schedule heats up, im bracing myself for long losing streaks and an empty Arco Arena
For the season, 9 games
Evans is:
5-20 from 3’s for a eFG% of 37.5%
14-38 on long 2’s for FG% of 37%
1-7 on jumpers from 10-15ft for 14%
11-30 on shots inside 10 ft for 37%
and 40-62 at the rim for 62.5%
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
thanks HT
so hes 20-65 outside of 10 ft.
30.7%—-
At what point does PW step in and force him to stop shooting from the outside?
Again I look at these jump shots almost as TOs, or at best a shot for an offensive rebound.
The problem is he has to shoot outside a bit
Driving can’t be his only threat. He has to be able to punish opposing defenses with a jumper every now and then, or they’ll leave him constantly.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
he is what he is
at this point driving is his only threat. If you watch how defenses pack the lane when he has the ball up top, the reality is they already do leave him. Its tough to have our top offensive player be so 1 dimensional.
How about we try and run the offense through Landry a little more, see if the guy can be a 20 ppg PF. I think he can be with enough touches.
Maybe we should have kept Martin? He seems like the perfect 2 guard compliment to Evans. He can hit 3’s and didnt need the ball in his hands alot, made quick moves or just moved the ball
There was a lot going on with Martin behind the scenes.
I don’t think it would’ve been pretty if he had stayed.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 18, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He worked on it all summer
I think he needs to use it more, but he needs to take the correct jump shots. The kind where he receives it with his feet set and spotted up, rather than shooting it off the dribble. So when he receives the ball, he should be quicker with the trigger, rather than dribbling and thinking on his feet.
I agree with your take on running the offense more through Landry. They could start doing it with Cousins also.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
Landry is just an extra large Evans
once he gets the ball, he’s going to try and score even from under the backboard with 3 defenders on him.
I’d rather see the Kings run the offense thru DeMarcus at least he’ll pass.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I say the Kings just give up right now. Cancel the rest of the season. No, really, before they move out of Sacramento.
Fire Westphal. Trade away Beno, Cisco, JT and Donté. Make Tyreke pass the ball better or bench him.
I know it sounds like I am upset and a defeatist but I am not. I am a happy well adjusted Kings fan just voicing my opinion. They should be winning these games against these lesser teams and their record should be 9-1 (I will give you the Lakers loss). Anything less just isn’t right. If the Kings can’t beat the worst teams in the league than they just aren’t very good and I know for a fact that that isn’t the case. This team should be competing for the playoffs.
But I am no expert.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 18, 2010 2:01 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Brilliant. Rec'd bte.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am just exercisng my right as a fan to be perpertually unsatisfied
fanatic that I am.
man, even my fantasy team is losing…
by betweentheeyes on Nov 18, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
That isn't so awesome.
Everyone knows the world revolves around fantasy basketball.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
mine does :)
and oh man I’ve been wheeling and dealing this year. Good year for fantasy basketball.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 19, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
amusing stuff, that
but in all seriousness, this shitty play is not going to help the already long odds of building a new arena here
start looking for crowds in the quadruple digits and echoes of kenny natt
and for the conspiracy theorists (of which I’m not one), THE EXCUSE THE MALOOFS HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
“Donte Greene is the starting SF for the “forseeable future” per Westphal #nbakings. Head stays in starting lineup" via jason jones twitter
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
Someone ask PW to define "forseeable future"
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
then
he’ll just change it to “for the time being” cuz he likes to switch his vocab rotations up too
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 18, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
what?
I dont understand what Omri did to lose his job? Hes been our most consistent 3 pt shooter all year and hes maybe the 1 player who tries every night and seems to care if we are winning or laying another egg
Westphal has got to go, he clearly wont stick with a lineup or rotation
His defense
He hasn’t been defending at the spot very well.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
By the way section
I was going to steal the ‘Here we Writhe’ for the Asinine thread.
:-(
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
GM moves
Does anybody that actually has behind the scenes info know if we are actively trying to make a trade? Is the plan to play out the season and try to develop what we have- even if it gets really really ugly? And also is there actually going to be heat on Westphal’s job or does he have total job security for the entire year?
I got the Knicks broadcast on League Pass last night and they were talking about JT being involved in trade rumors and surprised he was starting, and even speculating that his start was to develop some interest in order to move him. I wasnt sure if this was just STR talk or if he was actually on the market.
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