Quick Poll: Changes at the Top?
Stealing section214's bit ... I'll have a dissertation on this topic Saturday. (Cue dramatic music.)
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I voted no changes right now
Still only 10 games in. I see it doing more harm than good.
Then again, the Maloofs would probably know a lot more about the GM/Coach/Team than we do, and would probably have better judgement.
In Geoff Maloofs we trust?
No changes right now.
If Westphal is still jerking the players around like his own personal army of hyper-athletic toy soldiers at the end of this season, then we can talk about replacing him. But for now, I’m willing to wait it out and pull my hair out at every insane decision.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Disagree
It doesn’t take more than 1 year of evaluating talent. By now he should have a good idea what Casspi, Udrih, Green, Landry and Thompson offer. If a young team doesn’t have good experienced leaders on the floor, a coach should at least define the roles of a good young core so that it doesn’t stunt their growth. I’m afraid if he continues with his herk and jerk the entire year the Kings will have to start over yet again as this core will never come together.
You hit the nail on the head
a coach should at least define the roles of a good young core so that it doesn’t stunt their growth
I’m still pretty miffed about the Donte situation. Westphal was pissed that he put on a bunch of muscle over the summer. Why didn’t anyone tell Donte what his workout routine should have been? Had Westphal defined Donte’s role, then Donte wouldn’t have gone and put a bunch of muscle on. But Westphal didn’t do that.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
But Westphal didn’t do that.
Do we know this?
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Donte said pretty clearly on the radio yesterday
that he did it on his own thinking he’d be playing more 4 this year.
How in god’s name he thought that once the draft was over .. . . . IQ check.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 19, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting
So that adds more questions. Why the hell did he think he’d be playing the 4? Wasn’t he working with Shapiro? Shouldn’t there have been some communication between him and the coaching staff? Is there any communication going on?
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Well
Is there any communication going on?
You seem to be asking yourself lots of questions, does that count?
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
No
If the Kings coaches, trainers, front office, and players all communicated like the voices in my head they’d all definitely be on the same fucked up page. And the book would be upside down.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
My problem is
If they fire the coach they will not go out & pay big money for a better coach. If there is even a better coach out there so what’s the point? Unless they see a coach like Mario Ellie as a long term option it’s really pointless.
On another not I think GP has done the absolute best job he possibly can with the restrictions(maloofs tight wallets) he has to deal with. We have good players but for whatever reason(most likely the coach) they can’t put it together.
In other words the only way to fix this is with money the maloofs aren’t willing to spend. Not careless Isiah Thomas spending but GP spending should only help. Without that what can they do thatt they haven’t already done?
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Nov 19, 2010 7:16 AM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
False dichotomy
Between big money coach and Westpaul.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Not sure spending's the answer
if it is, who do we spend on? No one wants to come to Sac. The answer is building a team that can start winning some damn games, then maybe there’s a chance to lure a good free agent, or use some cap space to acquire a big contract.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I wouldn't mind giving Lawrence Frank a shot eventually.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Spending on a coach might not be a bad idea
Not sure about Frank though.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I don't mean necessarily breaking the bank
Our main problems as of now are 3pt shooting & defense at the sf position mainly. Adding mid tier guys don’t always add excitement but you have to think about how a guy like Trevor Ariza was dumped & Anthony Morrow was aquired on the cheap. These guys alone wouldn’t take us anywhere but they would make our inside guys(who just so happen to be our best players) that much better by opening things up. Ariza is what we want Donte to be & we probably could of had the real Ariza for a reasonable price imo. GP’s hands are tied so…
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Nov 19, 2010 10:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ariza was not dumped, he was traded for Lee. Unless you wanted to trade Casspi or Thompson I have a real hard time seeing who the Rockets would have prefered on this team. Morrow was overpaid and I have zero clue where he would fit with Garcia and Tyreke playing so many minutes at the 2 and no way in heck he plays the 3. Outlaw was probably the only guy in free agency that would sort of fit your bill (SF who can shoot the 3) but I personally would have my doubts as to how much he would be helping this team.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 19, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
To add to your point Wally
The Hornets gave up Collison to get Ariza pretty much
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
supreme brainfart by me
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 19, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
No changes now
Coach Westphal, as befuddling as some of his decisions have been, should still get the benefit of the doubt at this point. If he says that the team’s big problem right now is focus and he needs to find the right group of guys to set the tone, and let the individual players’ ability to stay focused on the court dictate their floor time, I think he should be given a real chance to play that out and try to fix this thing. That all changes, in my book, if it begins to look like Westphal is losing the team. Right now, based on the quotes and behind-the-scenes insight from JJ and others (but mostly JJ), it seems like the players are still blaming themselves for the losses and saying that they need to play better, even the guys who are struggling to understand their role on the team. If the players start throwing their hands up or pointing fingers, then it’s time to really be concerned about Westphal’s ability to communicate with the guys and keep control of the team.
As for Petrie, I really do think he virtually has a lifetime contract with this team. Short of going completely senile and/or climbing on Joe Maloof’s desk and dropping a deuce, I don’t think Petrie will be forced out any time soon. Maybe Geoff gets tired of it all and decides to walk away, but I doubt that day is near, either.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 19, 2010 7:22 AM PST reply actions
"climbing on Joe Maloof's desk & dropping a deuce"
lol I just pictured this & disturbing as it was it was also equally hilarious.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Nov 19, 2010 7:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where should the focus come from?
Westy has been acting like the principle instead of a teacher. EDUCATE don’t PUNISH. If you’re a young guy, have talent and have a good idea you’re a part of the future core, shouldn’t you be on the floor with others like you figuring out the game together? Shouldn’t the coach be mentoring them on how to overcome the mistakes instead of yanking them for a bad stretch of minutes and going with guys like Luther Head or Ime Udoka last season?
by RedHopeful on Nov 19, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Or Antoine Wright
+1
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
This
Shouldn’t the coach be mentoring them on how to overcome the mistakes instead of yanking them for a bad stretch of minutes and
is my biggest problem. He coaching like they’re vets, no 1st/2nd yr guys. Now if he yanks the vets I guess I’m pretty OK with it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 19, 2010 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
I hear Kevin Pritchard is available.
"But the Kings went in another direction, and that’s today’s reality: a full rebuild, multiple coaching changes, 42 wins in two seasons and a 3-6 start this season. Meanwhile, Ron has a ring and is a key cog on the best team in the league, so I guess it worked out OK for him."
I think Oden over Durant's really gonna hurt his resume
Plus, our GM is fine
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I hear Kevin Pritchard is able to do a lot with owners willing to spend money
So I don’t know exactly how well he’d do here…
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I don't see any legit criticism of GP
until we see what he does after the CBA. This is what they have been planning for and if he screws it up then its on him. I suspect, that unless salaries don’t reduce as much as expected, he will come out ofiit a genius again with other franchises thinking they should have prepared the same way.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Even if salaries don't get reduced too much
We’ll still have the most cap space of any team out there in all likelihood.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
We are playing beneath our talent level
that goes directly on Paul’s shoulders. However, I believe we should give the guy at least another month. But if we don’t see significant improvement…
I don’t see how anyone could blame Petrie for any of this. Both Tyreke and Cousins were obviously the BPA at their respective positions in the draft, and I don’t see how anyone could argue Landry and Dalembert were awful trades.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Agreed
Petrie has done a remarkably fine job with the draft and bringing in Sammy for Noci + Hawes was fantastic. Get a good look + mentor in fantastic defensive/rebounding center who is an expriring.
Posted this in NEK's Westphal FanPost -
As of right now, I would opt for the end of this season at the earliest. I don’t think that his removal solves anything. After our run of Musselman/Theus/Natt, I would prefer leaving the coaching staff alone for a two year run.
Now, if Jackson or Sloan or Popovich or a coach of that caliber is available and interested in coming to Sacramento, that’s a different story. Otherwise, I just don’t see the point.
Now, if this team is still playing like this in a month, I’m likely to change my mind and favor expediting the process.
As far as Petrie is concerned, never. It’s going to take me at least another couple of years to pull my head out of his arse, and that’s if I started the process today.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 19, 2010 8:19 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hard to argue with most of GPs latest moves
Drafting? no complaints. Trades? Well, many know I don’t think we got enough for KMartin, I feel there was a pick / or Jordan Hill should have come our way IF it had to be done. No problems with the Philly trade by most of us.
FA Question: GP and everyone else made it pretty clear after the draft and since that we were short a shooter at the 2/3. Who was out there we cold have grabbed up?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 19, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
Best bet probably would have been nabbing a pick from Houston in the KMart trade
and adding a shooter that way
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Spot on
I failed to mention this earlier but it’s the only con in letting Westy go now. Too much turnover in the coaching ranks and we’re no better than Detroit? :)
Seriously though, how about a middle ground. Management needs to approach Westphal and ask him about his methods. Basically – tell him he needs to play the kids the majority of the time whether they’re on or off…
By the way, I didn't want to search for it on this extremely slow work computer
And this sort of doesn’t have much to do with this thread, but I’m hoping HighTops sees it, since its a reply to him.
I think I remember HT saying that we’ll need to win 44.4% of our games just to get to 35, a target many of us (myself included) thought was a reasonable target at the beginning of the season. But we would’ve had to win 42.7% just to get there from the start of the season, so its not as if we’re soooo far behind.
Back on topic, I voted for replace neither. I think Westphal definitely has another year, I think Petrie has until he retires.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I don't like
Westphal coaching at all. It’s not “just 10 games”. It’s 92 games with no clue of a plan or defensive try. But I can’t vote, because having no coach is worse than Westphal. We know first hand how difficult is to find a good coach, so unless there’s someone good available, it would be bad to fire him now and keep an interim one or hire another under the mid-season pressure. It would be nice for the office though to make a research of a potential successor. The best thing would probably be to leave things as they are and watch them unfold and decide during summer.. The worst thing that can happen (and it’s not far from reality) is to get closer to the “Thunder model” aka “have one more top 5 pick for a 3rd consecutive year”.
I just saw that there’s an option about replacing Petrie. Seriously?
I voted no changes.
I’m going to wait until mid-December to evaluate this team and whether they can continue or not.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pookey, the voice of reason??
What!!?? ;)
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Nov 19, 2010 9:21 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agree
The one player I think PW messes with the most is Omri. I suspect his confidence gets battered playing 30 minutes one night and 15 the next. I played for a coach who would yank you for a couple of bad shots ( meaning you missed) and it was tough to play your game that way.
Anyway, this is one area I worry about PWs weird handling of players.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
I say we wait it out for the end of the season.
Remember when Reggie Theus was fired and we had to watch Kenny Natts horrendous coaching for the rest of the year? Do we really want one of our assistant coach to be coaching with no head coaching experience. Unless we get a proven coach, keep Westie until the end of the season or at least close to the end and see what he can do?
The last thing this team needs is a midseason coaching change
Think things are inconsistent now? Changing coaches is pretty much the only way to make sure it gets worse.
by LPKingsFan on Nov 19, 2010 9:31 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Why isn't this rec'd more than it is?
Very true.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
Any stats to back up
your contention that mid-season coaching changes lead to disaster?
Somehow I don’t think they exist.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
i'm willing to wait until the all star break
but if things are this disorganized at that point – I say give Mario a try as your coach. I’d like to see how he’d do and want to have enough games to get a true idea of how the players respond to him.
by Madzillagd on Nov 19, 2010 9:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I voted for no change
Westphal’s been inconsistent in my eyes. I also think he’s had no real choice. If things continue this way then I’d understand letting him go, be it midseason or offseason. I think Elie could do a perfectly good job as interim head coach. But I also think that Westphal sticking it out wouldn’t be as toxic as keeping Reggie Theus around would have been.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I voted no changes right now...
and say none until the end of the season. The team we are is the we are at this point. Our major talent is so very young and both have some seriously bad habits. We have no real veteran talent, Dalembert makes you wonder how he ever got a contract that said he would be worth 13 mil for a year and Beno is Mike Bibby with much less range, even worse defense and zero leadership.
We’re playing on the cheap right now, and it shows.
No Vote
Changes are needed, that’s an obvious from any fan’s perspective, but the options available didn’t adequately describe what I believe needs to be changed. IMHO, I think the coaching pieces are decent. I think our management is slightly above decent, and I think our personnel has the potential to be way better than just decent.
However, what seems to be lacking is cohesion and a gameplan that fits our personnel. What I mean is, with a roster full of young talent (and its a relief to say that we finally have some talent and it not actually just be homerism,) the coaching staff ought to be taking advantage of that surplus energy and instilling the idea that they need to RUN. I cannot comprehend what advantage PW thinks this team might have by walking the ball into (weak) half court sets instead of initiating a fast break pace at every opportunity. We’ve got interchangeable pieces for those who may get gassed quickly, yet some players are languishing on the bench 3 – 4 games straight with DNPs or minimal minutes. If I have to watch a season full of Tyreke crossing the half court line with the shot clock already down to 17 seconds I’m going to lose it. This is a team full of impalas and they’re playing at a buffalo pace, and that’s what needs to change IMHO…
"Indiviual results may vary, see participating stores for details...."
I'm getting slightly disturbed
and scared that we will blow this chance at being playoff contenders for the future.
Something needs to happen. We can’t waste Tyreke/Demarcus time, talents, and youth in limbo like this.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 19, 2010 10:24 AM PST reply actions
So long as we don't do anything stupid and drastic
I have a hard time seeing how what is happening now will blow our chance at being playoff contenders in the future. Sorry but firing PW is not going to make or break someone becoming a future all star, the guy doesn’t have that much influence.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 19, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Ownership...
Needed that in the poll. Let’s be honest here… Maloof’s honestly care about cutting costs more then spending what needs to be spent to bring the talent (players/coaches) to really give a great product to the fans, and too honestly compete in this league.
They keep cutting payroll costs, the Kings keep losing games, the Kings keep losing paying customers to watch this crappy circus act and slight of hand lineups (now you see it, now ya don’t)… If the Maloofs want to continue with this strategy then feel free to move the team.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
Only...
If you do so without selective editing…
If the Maloofs want to continue with this strategy then feel free to move the team.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
How dare they not get
Joe Johnson for $124 million, or Amir Johnson or Travis Outlaw for $35 million, or Brendan Haywood for $42 mil, or Jordan Farmar or Anthony Morrow for $12 mil, or $20 mil for Darko!!!??
They just need to spend the money they have because that way they’ll show they care. Don’t worry about a new CBA coming or the fact that we don’t even know what we have in our young guys. Let’s just spend for the hell of it!! That’ll show they care
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Nov 19, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I just find the "spend" arguement hilarious
We are talking about a new CBA coming and we had an offseason (the first one the Kings had freed up enough to be players) where everyone and their mother was trying to open cap room to get three major major free agents and a few other all star caliber guys. Surprise, surprise, teams had to spend major cash because even when they lost out on the big guns they had to show their fans they tried to do something and a lot of them looked dumb in the process.
Out of all the times one should not spend, it was last frickin offseason. That would have been completely reckless.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 19, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Truth
If Petrie wasn’t going to pull off some miracle to land one of the big three, the better idea was to hang onto the cap space and trade into a big-time player. Let’s face it, there’s a far better chance of that happening than landing a big-time free agent.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I'd be down with Bill Walton for "Coach", as in bring back the 90s sitcom with Bill in the starring role.
But Bill Walton as coach of the Kings? No, thanks.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 19, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Sarah Palin for President!!!
There. Now I’ve said something equally as stupid followed by three exclamation points.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Nov 19, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
section214 for Ambassador of Tallness!!!
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 19, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
It's just too early
I think out of Westphal and Petrie, Westphal is currently doing the worst job
However, Its not like we have much of a playoff chance now and thats one of the only times when you could possibly do something so drastic as fire your coach 10 games into the season. Right now things are fixable. We’ve had too many coaching failures over the past few years…it’s not becoming of a good oragnization
But in all honestly Westphal is making some questionable coaching decisions…but the real kicker is that he’s a constant tinkerer and its seemingly become a habit…at some point it has to become unjustifiable
I’m not against change, you just have to do it at the right time for the right reasons
At this point, might be difficult for replacement coach to do any worse than PW
Team is not benefiting from rotations. How can he explain making the last guy on bench a starter? PW is either preoccupied with addressing matchups or is still trying to find combinations that score and defend. Since the trade talk has been minimized, it may be time for coaching change. No evidence PW has implemented a system that gets the most out of players. Maybe there is no system. This should be viewed as a serious problem. No reason to give him more time to tinker. With all GP’s experience and basketball savy, he should have been working with PW to get this team on track. If the team does not win a few of the next ten games, PW should be replaced.

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