The Kings' (Three-Game) Defensive Renaissance
Last Friday, the Kings were 30th in the NBA in defensive rating. Paul Westphal inserted Donte Greene and Luther Head as starters over Omri Casspi and Beno Udrih. Casspi largely disappeared, while Beno still gets minutes (with Francisco Garcia get knocked back in the rotation). Westphal also went largely with a four-man big rotation prioritizing Carl Landry, Samuel Dalembert, DeMarcus Cousins and then, in lesser minutes, Jason Thompson.
Today, after three games, the Kings are 25th in defensive rating. Take a look at how much better the defense has been since the switch.
I didn't adjust for opponent offense, but note that the best defensive performance of the season -- Game 12 against New Orleans -- came against the No. 6 offense in the league, and the last game against the Jazz was against the league's No. 12 offense. That makes those performances (especially in light of those bad nights against bad defenses earlier in the season) stand out even more.
Westphal shook things up for the sake of defense ... and it looks like it worked.
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I'm confused
but I always struggle with graphs.
What is the arrow for? Did Dalembert start halfway between game 11 and 12?
And what is LG AVG? You surely refer to Samsung AVG, right?
Dunking Dutchman
Dalembert began starting after Game 5
And still starts as Greene and Head have entered the lineup. Didn’t want to make it seem as if the Dalembert stint and Greene/Head stint were separate.
LG AVG is league average.
failed joke ;)
hahaha!! it’s okay, it happens sometimes because it seemed like you seriously didn’t understand it. i still believe we should have done better the last game but there was just a few too many miscommunications that lead that far.
Conceptually
If you have to pick your poison between initially being a good offensive or defensive squad, I’d choose the latter – because I think there’s enough talent throughout this roster to establish a decent offense eventually.
Will PW be able to find the right balance? Jury’s still out on that one, but at least they are establishing some kind of identity on the floor.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
So lower is better?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 24, 2010 8:26 AM PST reply actions
I'm not guaranteeing this
It’s the average number of points allowed by a team per 100 possessions. Lower is better.
by lead_pipe on Nov 24, 2010 10:18 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I believe you are correct sir
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Pipe and Otis are correct
It’s a way of adjusting for how fast or slow a team plays. It’s a total of your opponents points times 100 divided by their total possessions( FGA+ Off rebs+ their Turnovers + 45% of thier FT’s). It a formula that can be used for one game or a season total.
Teams like Dal & Por play at a very slow Pace, between 91-92 possessions per game. If your hold them to 90 pts or less then 1 pt per possession, that’s good defense. Teams like Hou & LAL average 99-100 possessions, so if you hold them to 90pt your holding them to 0.9 pts per possession which is exellent defense.
Defensive rating does the math for you. Hold a team to 100 rating and your a good defense, hold them to 90 rating and your excellent, Hold them to 110 and your the worst defense in the league. Currently, 103 is the NBA average and currently the Kings are 106.7.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Nov 24, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The only thing that matters is Ws
So rather than worry about where we fall in Team D stats, let’s worry about how many wins this line-up change produces. If it’s produces a winning percentage of higher than 33% then it’s a success. (I’m pretty sure we were 3-6 when the change was made.) If it does worse than the experiment was a failure, and we should go back to starting our best players. My guess is that starting Head and Greene isn’t going to improve your winning percentage much. At the end of the day, basketball is about putting the round ball through the basket.
by Kusian on Nov 24, 2010 10:04 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I would disagree to be honest
To me the only thing that matters is competitiveness. Couldn’t give one shit about wins and losses at the moment
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
Agree 100%
Right now, there are no sure wins for this team, regardless of their opponent. I’d be ecstatic just to see them competing each night. I wish I hadn’t said this exact thing last season as well, but that’s where we are.
by lead_pipe on Nov 24, 2010 10:21 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
It scares me Wally
That I find myself agreeing with you so often this season. This season is over as far posting a winning is concerned. The only thing that matter for this squad is learning to improve their team play. The points will come, unless PW continues.to focus on D it won’t matter how many points the King s put up; our opposition.will put up more.
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
by Bluejohn on Nov 24, 2010 2:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Dont be scared of Wally. Be scared of his typos.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would also disagree about basketball being about putting the round ball through the basket
I tend to feel it’s more about putting the round ball through the basket more than your opponent. Don’t get me wrong, it might not happen that way with how things are going but so long as it is an overall improvement I wouldn’t worry too much.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
you're right of course
but my argument over the past few days is that we simply don’t have good enough defensive players to be a defensive team. Our best chance at being competitive (and winning) is on the offensive side. It’s essentially the same argument that Adleman used when the Brothers Maloof were screaming at him about preaching defense. His response was “hey, if you want a defensive team get me some defensive players.” He realized that given his players his best chance was to outscore his opponents.
It’s the same here. This team has been built to score rather than shut people down. Trying to force a square peg into a round hole isn’t going to work. I’d love to be proven wrong. We shall see. I’m willing to bet, however, that pretty soon you’ll be seeing a bunch more Beno, Garcia, and Omri – or, perhaps, a trade for more offensive firepower.
It could be argued
that at this moment it is more important to fill the seats at Arco than to get wins.
Perhaps Ws will fill the seats, but if the basketball is horrible to watch for those who don’t enjoy gritty, lockdown D (and there are many, I think), it may not work.
For the record, I like gritty, lockdown D.
Dunking Dutchman
The funny thing though is seats at Arco are not all that important really for the Kings, just for Sacramento
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Ug overstated
meant to say there are more important things to the Kings than seats being sold. It’s more important for the city than the organization
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this.
The Maloofs have “kind” of hinted that ownership of a NBA franchise is valuable enough that selling isn’t an option. They have looked around and Sacramento is still in the game because KJ is trying to get an arena.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What is more important?
Ultimately, it is a business with a product to sell.
Of course it is also about winning championships, but we are nowhere near that point yet. And championships help sell the product…
Dunking Dutchman
"For the record, I like gritty, lockdown D."
I’m kind of there with you right now. It was intense being at the New Orleans game – every possession seemed to take on extra importance.
I’ve always been a fan of run and gun, but I am enjoying watching this team care about defense.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Agree
I think it is great right now watching a non-roster guarantee guy shutting down two of the best PG’s on the planet.
by elSAVinator on Nov 24, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Rec'd Kus.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
FIRE WESTPHAL!!!
Oh wait, are we over that? YAY WESTPHAL!
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
by Exhibit G on Nov 24, 2010 12:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
No, it has NOT worked at all
This analysis is really just one sided and that is all on the defensive end. You have to look at both sides of the coin. Offense and defense.
In our first 5 games we won 3 games and lost 2 games. That is pretty damned good. Our average scoring over those five games was 107 points and our opponents scored 109.2. Only a 2.2 point different.
The next five games were 5 straight losses and that is because of our offense. We went from scoring 107 points to just 93.8 points over the 5 games. We did hold our opponents to just 102.8, but the difference was huge in a couple of ways.
We inserted Samuel Dalembert and dropped from 107 points to 93.8 points, which is almost a 14 point drop. That is just simply awful. I am not saying it purely Dalembert, but the chemistry on offense clearly went off track there.
That same 14 point drop only saw a different of 6.4 points for our opponents. They went from scoring 109.2 to 102.8 which is better, but we dropped 14 points while only causing our opponents to score 6.4 points less. That isn’t what I call working out well.
The last three games has seen a more even distribution between offense and defense with use scoring an average of 80 points and our opponents scoring 83.3 for a 3.3 point differential, but this is still worse than how we started the season.
We won 3 of first 5 games of the season with only a 2.2 point different and as a purely defensive team we are, in my opinion, worse off because we only won 1 of 3 games and have a 3.3 point differential. I know, I know, small damned sample size so don’t get all crazy bent. It is all we got and may be more time is needed, but I disagree.
I say screw it and go back to what was working in the first five games. Start Cousins and Casspi and let the good offensive players learn to play team defense.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Nov 24, 2010 12:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I say screw it and go back to what was working in the first five games.
Dammit NBA schedulers, why can’t we play the T-Wolves, Nets, Cavs, and Raptors 4 out of every 5 games?!?
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 24, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Really? You really think the below teams were that much better?
Memphis L 91-100
Minnesota L 89-98
Phoenix L 89-103
Detroit L 94-100
New York L 106-113
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
No
But we were playing basically the same in those 5 games as we were in the games we went 3-1. I was saying all along that even though we were winning there were some serious red flags.
Its the last three games I’m talking about that have shown a defensive improvement. Those are the only games that have been a really big change. And we’ve played the Nets, Hornets, and Jazz.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
That isn't necessarily true.
When you compare the first 5 games to the second 5 games you will see that our scoring dropped by around 14 points. We went from scoring about 107 to 93 points. That is a big difference…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
We went from a -2.2 difference in scoring in the first 5 games to a -9 points in the second 5 games. That is a big difference…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
okay are we talking last 3 games or 5 games?
in last 3 games when adjusting for pace and our oppoents we are doing better overall than I think you realize.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
There were three groups of games that TZ referenced
The first five games:
Wed 27 @ Minnesota W 117-116
Fri 29 @ New Jersey L 100-106
Sat 30 @ Cleveland W 107-104
November Opponent Result
Mon 01 vs Toronto W 111-108
Wed 03 vs LA Lakers L 100-112
Stats:
Our average points:107
Opponents average points: 109.2
The difference: -2.2
The second five games:
Sat 06 vs Memphis L 91-100
Wed 10 vs Minnesota L 89-98
Fri 12 @ Phoenix L 89-103
Sun 14 vs Detroit L 94-100
Wed 17 vs New York L 106-113
Stats:
Our average points: 93.8
Opponents average points: 102.8
The difference: -9
The last three games:
Fri 19 vs New Jersey W 86-81
Sun 21 vs New Orleans L 71-75
Mon 22 @ Utah L 83-94
Our average points:80
Opponents average points: 83.3
The difference: -3.3
Overall, as we have improved our defense we have also gotten worse offensively going from 107 points in the first fives games down to averaging 80 point in the last 3 games. I think it is a valid question to ask if we are cutting off our nose despite our face. Do we improve defensively only to keep losing games?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
So your saying Head for Beno, Donte for Casspi and Sammy for Cuz is the reason for the drop in offense?
Beno is scoring 5pt per game below his earlier average, Head is scoring 3pt more. = net -2
Casspi averaged 12pts in the first 5 games, Donte average 11 in last 3. = net -1
Cuz is averaging 11 pts off the bench and averaged 11 pts as a starter = net 0
So with a net of -3 pts per game, are the players the real reason the offense is worst. I know that they are the reason the defense is better.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I am saying that inserting all defensive players and sitting offensive players has killed our offense.
Chemistry is everything. We have little to no offensive chemistry. The sum of offensive players playing in rhythm is greater than the sum of their individual stats.
We got no rhythm right now offensively HT and you know it.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Yes, I do, but I don't believe Head and Donte are the cause
How about our star and his poor performance and his inability to incorporate others into the offense. How about an offensive scheme that gives the ball to our 3 main offensive weapons, in a place where they are the least effective.
I think the numbers show that we scored only slightly better against the weaker teams in our schedule than they have been giving up. Which made our offense look better in the earlier games than what we actually are. And, now that we’re playing tougher teams our real offensive ability is starting to show, and it doesn’t look very good.
And, going back to our poorer defense isn’t going to make our offense any better against the better teams in our schedule. People couldn’t believe that Petrie said our real problem was with our offense. Now, that doesn’t sound so bizzare now.
The offensive scheme and execution needs to change not the lineup. I’m not ready to give up on the first real improvement we’ve seen in this team in two years. At least not to go back to a lineup that beat some of the worst teams in the league by an average of 2.33 pts per game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think there are multiple issue causing offensive problems...
I guess I have to sit down and knock out that post. Been working on something and it is about the scheme. Couldn’t agree more on that, but do think the line up changes have killed the chemistry. We were developing some and I just don’t see it growing. Or at all really.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
It worked
Westphal shook things up for the sake of defense … and it looks like it worked.
While it may not be translated to a better winning percentage, it has improved the defense. If that was the goal, then it worked. Can’t argue that.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
I would argue that we might be hurting ourselves more than helping
Are we giving up too much of our offense? Are we losing because we are playing defensive players over offensive players? What is the net results of the offensive and defensive and is this going to cost us more games than we win? I don’t know that the above answers that, but I am closer to Geoff Petrie’s position than I was before looking at this stuff.
We clearly had to stop a losing skid, but that happened as soon as we inserted Dalembert in the line-up…. Was that a coincidence or the cause?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Frustation: How I missed thee.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hahahaha @ my spelling
Frustration^
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Just to acknowledge G
I am not missing your point. And by reference TZ’s. The mixing up of the defense issue is understood. I guess there may be something to the statement, forget who made it, that PW is really just trying to prove a point here.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Mildly ticked off right now because I had a nice researched comment I spend 45 minutes on and it up and got deleted
We won 3 of first 5 games of the season with only a 2.2 point different and as a purely defensive team we are, in my opinion, worse off because we only won 1 of 3 games and have a 3.3 point differential.
I dunno about using point differently but considering our oppenents the last 3 games were significantly better than in those first 5 games and the differential between our ORtg and DRtg the last three games has been less than a point per 100 possessions I think we are doing better in the last three games.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
er
“point differential”
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 24, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm rec'ing this comment in place of the 45 minute comment that I probably would've rec'd for awesomeness.
So, this is like a surrogate “rec”. You’re welcome.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 24, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I am no basketball stats guru.
I am just observing what is in the boxscore and you have some valid points on adjusting for pace and all that. It just seems fair to ask how much we gain in the differential of improving our defense at the expense of our offense. Do we lose or gain more?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I guess that depends on your point of view
Do you believe that sacrificing defense for offense is a better base for building a winning team, or do you believe that becoming a solid defensive squad is the better route? I’m thinking the latter is a better approach (maybe it’s just a refreshing “placebo”), and that these guys can learn to play together offensively over time.
Maybe I’m just jaded by watching decent offensive squads who could never seem to get a clue defensively. But I’m willing to watch and wait on this style of play – and so far I like what I’ve seen.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
It is a conundrum...
I think that it is easier to have a mix of both. Some solid defenders as anchors and more offensive minded players that follow their lead and learn to play team defense. I am willing to wager that this model is the best.
So, I would choose neither option and go with something more practical and middle ground.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Forget small sample size and look at season averages
We played New Jersey twice. We lost with the season starters and won with the current line up.
NJ for the season has a offensive rating of 100.9 and a defensive rating of 105.6
In the first game which we lost we had a off rate of 96.2 and a defense rate of 101.9, so we scored 9.4 pts fewer than NJ normally gives up and allowed 1pt more than they usually score. That’s a 10.4 pt advantage for the Nets.
In the last game which we won, we had a off rate of 103.6 and a defensive rat of 97.6. That’s 2 pts less than what NJ normally gives up, and 3.3 pts less than what NJ nomally scores. That’s a 1.3 pt advantage for the Kings. Overall a 11.7pt turn around in our favor.
Minny scores 98.3 on average but we allowed 111.4 or 13.1 more, and Minny allows 108.3 and we scored 110.5 or 2.2 more. That’s an 10.9 pt advantage to the Twolves with the early starters.
Cle scores 100.7 but we allowed 115.1 or 14.7 more, while the Kings only scored 7.4 above Cle’s usual 106.7 defense. That’s 7.3pt advantage for Cle.
Tor scores 101.9 but we allowed 113.7 or a 11.8 pt more then their norm. We scored 116.8 which is 11.2 over their norm of 105.6. Which is still a 0.6 advantage for Tor.
In everyone of the early season games we play a bad team and made them look better. And, barely sqeaked out wins by +1, +3, +3, and a lose of -6. If we continued to play good teams with that same defense, we were never going to win any games. At least now, with the new defense we have a chance of keeping good teams from running away with the game. And, by the way, the 9pt loss to Minny 7 games ago happened before the defensive changes took affect.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Nov 24, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm... Interesting
Here is the thing. We do need our players to do better at defense. You know I have been saying we need team defense. I just think we would be better off teaching our offensive players to play effective team defense rather than benching them to put out players who are more (one dimentionally?) defensive minded.
I think there is a balance in there that we aren’t hitting and we keep going to extremes rather than having a balanced approach. Perhaps all this is to just prove a point or something. I think that our offensive players can play better team defense, but benching them won’t teach them how to do that…
I get we need to play defense and your points are well made. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as we move forward because we don’t have good information or enough data to tell the full tale yet…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Teach the defensive players to play offense is an option also.
Tomorrow we play another lower echelon team and then we have the Bulls and Pacers. I’d like to see how we finish the month against those 3 teams to get a better feel.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
General comment (just trying to be funny, don't be offended)
I love people!!
“No chance of winning a ring and hanging on for too long, let’s finally rebuild!!… wait, why are we losing so much and not spending $$. Petrie and the Mallofs suck!!!”
“PW needs to set a rotation and stick to it for the next 20 games!!… wait, why is X player not getting any minutes. PW sucks!!”
“Our defense sucks and it always has, I’m tired of trying to outscore opponents! Defense wins championships!!!…. wait, our offense sucks now! Why are we not trying to outscore opponents?!!!!”
“What? We don’t have players that are great on both sides of the court!! What? They’re too young and incomplete!!Rebuilding sucks, who the eff asked for this?!!!”
Fire everyone!!!
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Nov 24, 2010 1:21 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
Consider myself fired Ed.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would publicly rec this,
but then the accusations of GroupThink would fly. So I will just quietly rec this and not post a response.
…Dammit.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Not at all
General comment and just trying to be funny
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Just read every thread after the Utah game
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
That's pretty much why I posted that poll this morning
to see if the impatience and fickleness that we’ve been seeing is really just a few people with strong opinions, or actually an indicator of a very fractured fanbase.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 24, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Entertaining stuff, for sure Ed
But I’ve seen a few people make similar comments – and if you can find many individuals here who are talking out of both sides of their mouths (as listed in your post), I’d be surprised.
Otherwise, you’re just taking a multitude of differing opinions – and I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised to find said varying opinions on a site this large and active.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Definitely tongue in cheek
and I’m not going to research past statements from people. I may do it from time to time but usually find it in bad taste. Either way, I think it was just a funny way of looking at the fanbase as a whole. I was trying to accuse anyone but rather make fun of where the Kings are and how everyone (including me) seem to be reacting.
I actually missed Petrie and a MLE joke somewhere in there. Ohh well…
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
On the bright side
We only have 2 more losses then the best team in the history of the world, the Miami Heat!
I guess I'm in the minority...
I think PW should stick with Donte, Luther, Carl, Dally, and Reke.
by getPGwithbounce on Nov 24, 2010 10:19 PM PST reply actions
We are not along. Sound the theme from X Files.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
We are not alone...X DICK Factor (1/2 court) MaaaTa Is BACK-n the HOUSE!
We both know that the X factor remains this wise older mastermind coach, and I would pay a buck or two for a head coach to ‘take’ advantage X 200% for once. Not talking bad or down stuff. Alderman took it about 75% but would change course at odd times…The power of win-win ‘teamwork’ is right here in our house. Amazing
That is why when veteran coaches tell people to be patient they should indeed be. Now, you realize that results do not just pop up in a flash and the Kings are the perfect example of results from a hard work and a lot of tactical improvement .
That was God disguised as Michael Jordan
by sheltonchristina on Nov 25, 2010 6:38 AM PST reply actions
Well
You are putting the cart way before the horse. While there has been improvement defensively, nobody knows if it’s sustainable long-term (if the offense will come around). Plus, it hasn’t resulted in any wins.
Promising, sure. Vindication of the coaching staff? Heck no.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
It's so far resulted in one win, two losses (to two very good teams).
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 25, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
Mastermind coach?
it took him 95 games, two training camps, two preseason to figure out what most people on this site already knew. That Beno is a bad defender, and Luther Head is better.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
In all fairness,
it would have been hard for him to determine that Head was the better defender over those 95 games, since Head wasn’t here for 82 of them. Just sayin’.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 25, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No, that's true but Beno was.
And, my point although poorly worded was that it hasn’t been some elaborate defensive scheme that the players suddenly started to understand and implement that caused the current change in the defense.
Petrie traded for Dalembert for interior defense, and Paul entered Luther in the starting backcourt. Again, not some stroke or revelation from a Mastermind Coach.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
FIGHT! fIgHt! fight! FIghT!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree 100% that Westphal is no mastermind
But I think that it is unfair to say that it has taken him two years to “figure it out,” especially since the roster has undergone wholesale changes since the beginning of last year. I mean, Landry/Head is a little different than Martin/May, yes?
I’m a simple (minded) person, and I usually default to the simplest answer is usually the correct one. In this case, I think that Westphal and the coaching staff have determined that this collection of players cannot out-offense the majority of teams in the NBA, so they have turned the focus and personnel to defense.
None of this is meant to defend Westphal – he has certainly made his fair share of mistakes along the way. But it’s not like he has had the same type of personnel since he arrived and has just failed to “get it.”
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by section214 on Nov 25, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Which NBA coach would you classify as a mastermind?
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by section214 on Nov 25, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a reasonable assumption
I on the other had am a doubting Thomas. I need to see some proof before I give my support. But, Westphal vasillation, between May & Hawes, JT & Hawes, Donte & Casspi, and all the other assorted attempts to find an answer, just makes it harder for me to put any real faith behind him.
You have made it quite clear that you believe that the best players should start. And, I’ve always professed to believe that a rebuilding team should be stressing the importance of playing the youth. I’ve really haven’t got any idea of what PW’s philosophy is, other than keep changing until you find something that works. Maybe I’m wrong, but as I said, I need proof and I really haven’t seen any yet.
It looks to me like his system is to keep rotating in players, hoping that one of them will have a hot hand. As you yourself have pointed out, this team isn’t deep, and continuing to look to your bench for answers isn’t exactly the smartest move.
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The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think the depth of the bench
is relative.
What I mean is that apart from Tyreke, and perhaps to some extent Landry, all the other players are interchangeable. I don’t mean comparable, but what one group lacks in offense (Head, Greene, Dalembert), the other group lacks in defense (Beno, Omri, DMC), and then there is this group which is halfway decent on both sides of the floor (Cisco, JT, Jackson). And yes, I’ve simplified matters for argument’s sake.
The problem lies in using the bench effectively, and to have smarter and less abrupt substitute patterns.
Dunking Dutchman
I agree here
It was clear in the Utah game that going from all 5 starters to 5 bench guys created that 10 point deficit in the 2nd. In a simple breakdown, as you did Rik, maybe we should keep some of the defensive guys in to play with the offensive guys to keep the balance.
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Defense
The only players with length on the team are:
Evans
Dalembert
Cousins
Whiteside
Please define "length"
and “defense”, "players"and “team” as well, just to be sure, because I’m utterly confused by this statement.
Dunking Dutchman

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