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Post-Game Thread: Kings at Clippers

The Kings need to stand next to a Red Stripe, because right now, they're ugly.  I haven't had this little fun watching the Kings since the 17 win season.  In fact this might be worse, because I had some expectations for this team.  Not a lot... but some.  Get it together Kings.  Hope the rest of you had a good Thanksgiving though.


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That was agonizing, and right now the Kings are garbage.

I hated this. That said, go Kings! Saturday will be my girlfriend’s first game of the season and we’ll be shouting our heads off…hopefully because we’re enjoying the game.

by lead_pipe on Nov 25, 2010 10:33 PM PST reply actions  

Have fun!

That’ll be a tough game…

by outrider on Nov 25, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Good luck

and I hope you guys will be screaming in a good way.

by chenp22 on Nov 25, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The Blake Griffin youtube video is pretty funny...

So there’s that I guess

"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP

by tomroadrunner on Nov 25, 2010 10:34 PM PST reply actions  

Westphal needs to go now.

The franchise is regressing explosively.

We aren’t competitive.

We aren’t fun.

Our “star” is giving NO effort, and looks worse than Landry Fields – a rookie second rounder. Bench Tyreke or trade him – seriously.

We play NO defense.

We play NO offense.

HOW can you retain the coach? This team is as disappointing as ANY NBA team I have ever seen. They honestly look more lost than they did under Jerry Reynolds, Gary St. Jean, or Eddie Jordan – Three AWFUL coaches. The Maloofs need to stop being so cheap with coaches and go get a proven guy, or an outstanding assistant.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 10:37 PM PST reply actions  

Trade Tyreke! hahaha

Trade our best player, genius!! I don’t know why I didn’t think of that, problem solved!! You just saved our franchise!!

by elSAVinator on Nov 25, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I'm not trying to save anything.

Besides… does he LOOK like our best player to you?

Seriously. WTF? I’m AMAZED that people are defending this guy. What do you see that I don’t, because I’ll tell you that for a guy that SHOULD have every reason to be asserting himself, he looks like a huge wuss. I see NO indication that this guy is a star -NONE. He looks like a spoiled prima donna.

(Just for the record – I LOVED Tyreke. I play fantasy. We have an auction system. I drafted him last year and paid more for him than what was paid for ANY rookie this year or last. I looked like a genius last year. I actually said EARLY last year that I wouldn’t trade him for Dwayne Wade. I thought he was a combination of Wade and Magic. We also have a keeper league with escalating salary scale – mirrors the NBA in that salaries escalate for up to 6 years for a total possible keeper range of 7 years. I kept him. Suffice it to say that I have followed his career VERY closely) That being said, I HOPE for his success.

So – EXPLAIN this to me. If he is so great, HOW is this happening? The Durant comparison is WRONG. Durant improved markedly in his second year. The truth is that I can’t think of ONE star player who regressed in his second year, and then got better. There are players that didn’t ‘bloom’ immediately (Chauncy Billups), but I can’t think of any that noticeably dipped in their second year, THEN progressed to star.

Unless this ends SOON, I predict that Evans will never be a star. A player’s performance arc is fairly easy to track. By the third year you can tell like 95% of the time. It seems to me that the shot needs to change quickly, or he is NOT our centerpiece. That will be fine as long as DMC pans out, but it would demand that Evans takes a much diminished role which may be difficult given our treatment of him to this point.

I would be less angry/confused/horrified/worried about this if Evans demeanor on the court wasn’t so passive. As I have said in other posts, he looks medicated.

This franchise has BIG problems.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

20-5 and 5

explanation done.
Shut the fuck up about Tyreke.

There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Nov 25, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Is that 20 + 5 = 25 wins?

I hope the future of the franchise is brighter than that.

"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."

by NewEraKings on Nov 25, 2010 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Sigh........

There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Nov 26, 2010 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

sniff...tears form.

There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Nov 26, 2010 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

You're not drowning in your own hyperbole are you?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 25, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I absolutely am.

Hey. I KNOW I am overreacting, but I am SERIOUSLY concerned about what I am seeing from Tyreke. I honestly didn’t think it was possible. Last year I was impressed by his maturity under pressure. This year he seriously looks like he doesn’t care. He doesn’t look like he even wants to be out there. Given all we know about him, I find that hard to believe, but I am having a hard time believing what I am seeing night after night.

If it is, in fact, injury – Westphal SHOULD be sitting him. If he is injured it is just another reason why Westphal should be fired. That IS something I am certain of at this point. This team is HORRIBLY coached. They look completely unprepared.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

i heard westphal say on the radio

that they were resting Tyreke at practice, he said it hurts continuity in games, then he said the fans want to see Tyreke play though so he has no choice.

by DK209 on Nov 25, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That is BULLSHIT

The real fans want Tyreke to play at as close to 100% as possible. It’s obvious that his injuries are limiting his play. SIT HIS ASS DOWN!

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter!

by CaliforniaJag on Nov 25, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

SERIOUSLY????

He plays Tyreke because of what THE FANS want?

If that is true, it is reason No. 58 why he should be fired tonight.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

PW needs to stay

he’s getting a rebuilt team to focus on their weaknesses as opposed to their strengths. they need to be defensive-minded before they can even compete in this league. while doing this, though, it’s hindering what we’re good at (our offense.) but remember.. we ARE a rebuilding team and what PW is doing is actually good for the long run. the problem with that is before we start excelling we’ll be relocated because we’re not getting the W’s for the city.

by D00M on Nov 25, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

There is NOTHING to be gleaned from losing to the worst teams in the NBA nightly.

Besides, defense is about the percentage of offense that you are WINNING/LOSING by. A team that hold opponents to 85 points and wins by 3 has a FAR WORSE defense that a team that gives up 95 points on average, but wins by 6.

Defense can ONLY be measures against total points scored and allowed. We aren’t getting better defensively by slowing the pace. We are losing WORSE than we did before.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry Hoops Mike

but the way you type annoys me, you write one world all in CAPS to illustrate the fact that your “making a point or yelling” and it just BOTHERS the CRAP out of ME.

by JZiadeh on Nov 26, 2010 12:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Right

Use the italics button instead if you want to stress a word.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Nov 26, 2010 1:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Why no mention of the GM??

Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!

by kingme18 on Nov 26, 2010 1:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Getting to the point

where it’s become very difficult to watch the games, especially after an effort like this. This seemed like a total going through the motions game, especially in the second half.

I felt bad for the announcers that they had to waste time away from their families for this.

by outrider on Nov 25, 2010 10:39 PM PST reply actions  

I can't believe I sayed up to watch this

Visiting my brother in Kentucky and it wasn’t over until 1:30. Cousins looks lost out there in the high post (no idea why he should be playing there) Tyreke looks uninspired. Greene doesn’t know when to shoot the 3 and when to drive. Everything is just seemingly wrong right now. Good thing is that it cant get any worse than losing… I hope.

by Merickel on Nov 25, 2010 10:48 PM PST reply actions  

What needs to happen.

1. Westphal.. Get out
2. Start Omri. He is by far our best shooter and spark plug
3. Cousins is not ready and needs to be groomed before extended playing time
4. Annnnd we need to trade for Brooks. Somehow… Get a real PG before Xmas!!!!!

by theduke85 on Nov 25, 2010 10:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

yes..that's definitely what needs to happen

and it’s sad too because I really wanted to like Westphal. But this does not seem to be working out. Oh, and trading for Brooks sounds PERFECT. I believe he’s unhappy in Houston sooo…….

by Kaylee19 on Nov 25, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree with 1 and 3.

Less sure about 2 and 4 although I totally think we have to get Omri 25 minutes a night regardless.

I still believe in Reke as PG. THAT is where he will be special. If we have to move him, I honestly think we should trade him. There is NO poor shooting 2 in this league that is a star.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

...

1. How the hell is this his fault? Try making a lego sculpture with Twizzlers instead of lego bricks. It’s not very easy.
2. Omri is also one of our worst defenders. He’s perfect off the bench
3. Agreed. The problem is that our other options suck as well. I guess Thompson would be better at this point, but not by much
4. Please no. Brooks is even worse on D than Beno, if that’s possible. I’d rather bring in any number of other guys; hell, I’d rather see Kyle Lowry come to Sacramento than Brooks.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter!

by CaliforniaJag on Nov 25, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions  

1. Have you watched this teams motivation? There is none at all!!! No defense, no passion and no drive and where does it all stem from? the head coach. Westphal has no business coaching this team. We need a hard nose coach with passion and this certainly isn’t Paul.
2. Ok.. Omri spreads the floor. What does donte do besides play medicore D? Miss jumpers… That sounds about right..
3. I’ll be pleased with tyreke at the 1 if he learns how to shoot over 20% on his Js. Soooo what I am saying is illogical.
4. Brooks is what we need. Plain and simple

by theduke85 on Nov 25, 2010 11:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

...

1. No. These are professionals. To quote Vic Ketchman of Jaguars.com (I’m a Jaguars fan):

If I’ve got a locker room full of guys who need to be led, then I need a new locker room full of guys. I want self-starters. If I’m a coach, I don’t wanna walk into my locker room and see a player acting as a coach. I wanna walk into that locker room and see every eye in the room turn to me with a focus that lets me know I don’t have to say a word because they’re ready to play. I want guys who can lead themselves

ABSOLUTELY applicable in this case. These are professional athletes; they shouldn’t need someone to motivate them. In addition, my post was detailing that this team is poorly constructed, and Westphal shouldn’t be faulted for not being able to come up with a good enough lineup when he doesn’t have good enough players.

2. Donte is a better shooter than you are giving him credit for, and he plays better defense than Casspi. I would argue that he is a better basketball player than Casspi right now.

3. I agreed with you…not sure what you were debating here.

4. You give zero explanation for why Brooks is “what we need”. I disagreed, and gave a reason why. Give me a reason why he IS what we need. Why is Brooks a significant upgrade over Beno? He’s not that great at running an offense and he’s awful defensively. He can shoot a bit better than Beno, but I would argue that “what we need” at PG is a player that’s completely different from Beno.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter!

by CaliforniaJag on Nov 26, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Tired of this $***

It’s so difficult to watch these games. I get so frustrated I want to yell at Tyreke and tell him “Be more selfish! Ya jackwagon!”(just saw that geico commercial. Sorry.) there’s no flow no toughness no nothing. I had such high hopes for us this season. I bragged about us this offseason to the laker fans here and I feel like my family member stabbed me in the neck. I love this team so much…and they just piss on my hopes. We need a lot of things but first is a solid shooting guard so I like to hear those rumors about getting Aaron Brooks. No more lottery…please?

by Kingsfan_born_in_LA on Nov 25, 2010 10:57 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Well...

Michae Bluth - "Clear as the Ann on plain's face."

Leela -" Man, I'm sore all over. I feel like I just went ten rounds with mighty Thor"
Fry - "I feel like I was mauled by Jesus. "

Homer - " When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power…like God must feel when he’s holding a gun."

by Apoet on Nov 25, 2010 11:08 PM PST reply actions  

I think it's time for Petrie to shoulder some blame

This team is poorly built. Our best player is Evans, but he has no shooters to kick out to. Our defenders can’t play offense, and our scorers can’t play defense. Westphal has tinkered with the rotation, but it’s because he’s trying to find some way to make a Thanksgiving turkey out of last year’s turkey leftovers. This team has one consistent ballhandler (Beno), but he can’t play defense at all. They have one consistent perimeter defender (Head), but he has trouble scoring, is a total liability as a ballhandler, and is too small to D up other teams’ SGs. They have one interior defender (Dalembert), but he can’t score from further than 2 feet from the basket, and even that is an adventure. They have zero players who can efficiently run a fast break, but we “want to run”. We have zero players who can consistently feed the post, but we want to run a “post offense”. Beno is the only guy any good at running the pick and roll, but we have big men who excel as the screener in the pick and roll.

Defense in the NBA is partially about responsibilities and reaction, but a major part of it is effort. Players that put in the effort on the defensive end are the guys that teams win with. Out of this entire roster, the only guys I see putting out consistent defensive EFFORT every game are: Dalembert (that’s all he can do), Head (non-roster invite trying to make a name for himself), Greene (trying to stay out of the doghouse), and Jackson (that’s what he does, but even though he puts forth the effort he’s simply not that good at it). That’s IT.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I think this team was poorly built. There are barely any consistent outside shooters, yet our team’s best player’s strength is to drive inside and either try to score or kick it out. There are barely any consistent defenders, but our offense isn’t nearly good enough to carry the lack of defense. The only decent ballhandler (Beno) is more a shooter than a distributor. Basically, it’s a hot mess wrapped in a flaming garbage bag. We need:

1. A point guard that can run an offense and play decent perimeter defense
2. A small forward that can play defense and knock down the corner three
3. A bench shooter who can come in cold and drain open looks
4. A backup big man that can play tough post D and box out on the defensive boards

This team is poorly constructed and needs some serious pieces before it’s heading anywhere. The offseason hype got to my head, but it’s clear we have massive holes. Keep Evans and Cousins, but anyone else should be available at the right price. Petrie needs to try building this team around consistent defensive effort and balanced offense rather than a bunch of lane cloggers and a guard who likes to drive the lane combined with pathetic perimeter defense and poor defensive boxouts.

Anyway, vent over. I’m very slightly less angry about this game now.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter!

by CaliforniaJag on Nov 25, 2010 11:15 PM PST reply actions  

I don't disagree.

I do think Petrie is overrated, but very good.

I think he is a good evaluator of offensive talent. Not so great at evaluating YOUNG defensive talent. He hasn’t DRAFTED one good defender, although he has signed/traded for some.

That is about as far as it goes. Aside from Adelman (who was his friend from Portland), he hasn’t made a single great coaching hire either. (In fairness, I don’t really know the Maloof family’s influence in this).

by Hoops Mike on Nov 25, 2010 11:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Skipped the second half

to watch “Scott Pilgrim vs. The World” with my son. Good, highly entertaining move, and looks like I didn’t miss a thing. I think I will also skip this trollfest. Better luck to the Kings next time out.

"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."

by NewEraKings on Nov 25, 2010 11:15 PM PST reply actions  

Great movie

Michae Bluth - "Clear as the Ann on plain's face."

Leela -" Man, I'm sore all over. I feel like I just went ten rounds with mighty Thor"
Fry - "I feel like I was mauled by Jesus. "

Homer - " When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power…like God must feel when he’s holding a gun."

by Apoet on Nov 25, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I was at the game sitting damn near courtside. Joe maloof I believe was leaving. I screamed out fire Westphal I’m a kings fan please do it for me.

 It’s time this team is better than 4-10 they played on national TV with no effort reke did nothing.

 There’s no offensive game plan all one on one. Its time. 1-9 in last 10 games falling apart. Season isn’t over yet but he needs to go!!!

by dj3ptspecialist44 on Nov 25, 2010 11:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Westphal

Its all fine to say fire Westphal but who would they get to replace him that’s better?

by thebluereverend on Nov 26, 2010 12:08 AM PST reply actions  

The players respect mario elie don’t want to hire a coach then let him coach. You Ave Lawrence Frank and a few others we arenrt losing because our roster sucks our coach has no set plan or direction and it finally is eroding the team

by dj3ptspecialist44 on Nov 26, 2010 12:19 AM PST reply actions  

A lot of crap going on in this thread

but with that said, there is no doubt that this game was a fireable offense on Westphal. Honestly, the kings are better off just switching everything on defense, and just playing pick and roll every play. Thats pretty sad.

Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."

by Ellimist on Nov 26, 2010 12:36 AM PST reply actions  

I'm a PW guy

and I’m close to jumping on the fire ’em band wagon.
Teams either have to win ,or be building and improving, or entertaining. Right now this team is 0 for 3.

There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Nov 26, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I guess I'm in the minority

I don’t think PW should be fired yet…
I still think the starting lineup should be Luther, Reke, Dally, Carl, and Donte…
Records aside, I think that Clipper roster has a lot of talent so I don’t see it as an upset (didn’t Charles say that PW should get Coach of the Year with getting 4 wins with this team).

by getPGwithbounce on Nov 26, 2010 12:55 AM PST reply actions  

Im with you

A bit early yet – its November. I think more time is needed to work things out; to get some consistency.
The Kings have a number of new players, and clearly they haven’t worked each other out yet, though I’m sure the changing starting lineups aren’t helping.

by kinginaus on Nov 26, 2010 1:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

I really wonder what is up with Reke. Is his injury bothering him that much? He seems to have lost his swagger, is missing easy layups, and making silly decisions, not getting into the offense quick enough, blah blah blah. I’m really not trying to rag on Reke, but he really has regressed, from even preseason. I wonder what it is, could there be chemistry issues within the team? Could it be issues with PW. Could he just hate the losing? Hard to tell what’s going on around here.

by chenp22 on Nov 26, 2010 3:09 AM PST up reply actions  

FG% of Evans the past 4 games..

A whopping 29%. Especially with all his usage, that’s detrimental to a team.

His season’s FG% has gone down. His 3 point percentage has gone down. I’m completely dumbfounded, since he was supposed to have been working on his jump shot all summer. I was expecting his percentages to go up, not down.

I’m thinking teams are focusing on ways to stop Tyreke by clogging the lane, etc. The rest of the players on the Kings’ squad have been so horribly inconsistent that freeing up other Kings players to defend ‘Reke is working. Westphal should be seeing this and adjusting his plays to counter that, but, apparently that’s not working at all.

by CloudyEyes on Nov 26, 2010 2:36 AM PST reply actions  

I agree. Tyreke's play says awful things on at least one level.

Tyreke is hurt or he isn’t. Either reality says pretty bad things about the organization.

If he is hurt, Westphal should certainly be fired. There is clearly no benefit to playing Evans. Right now he looks like waiver wire fodder – that is how bad he is playing. I tend to think this is the truth.

If Tyreke isn’t injured…. well. I don’t even like to consider what this means. I don’t really buy the notion that he is being defended differently. Other teams played him to drive last year. This doesn’t explain other elements of his game which are clearly lacking currently.

IMO, Tyreke should have the ball in his hands on offense. If he is hurting too badly for that responsibility, he should be benched until he is better. I can’t imagine why Westphal would be playing him injured.

That all being said, Tyreke’s shot is really poor. That has to be fixed if he is ever going to be a star of any kind. I am disappointed at the degree he still rocks back. He bails out on his shot even when he is uncovered.

by Hoops Mike on Nov 26, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

I wish we could have seen some Whiteside in the last two games.

I know he’s buried deep in the rotation because of position, but it would at least have been useful in his development to get some PT. And who knows? He might actually prove a bench boost simply by not giving up on plays.

And a few monster rejections would have pumped up his teammates. I know it would have given us something to cheer about.

This.

by elfboy_ on Nov 26, 2010 6:38 AM PST reply actions  

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