Kings Fall Apart, Lose 96-85 to Bulls
by Tom Ziller on Nov 27, 2010 9:50 PM PST
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PrintThe Kings had their first halftime lead of the season (seriously) and looked good through three quarters. Then it all came crashing down.
Chicago started the fourth with a 9-0 run to take a two-point lead, and ran away in the end with a 96-85 win. The Kings were outscored 27-9 in the fourth quarter, and you read that correctly, they scored just nine points in the fourth. That dreadful finish included eight turnovers and 3-21 shooting. Seriously.
Of particular frustration was the fact that Paul Westphal never once returned to his starting five -- a starting five that played energetic, well-executed ball to get the Kings a lead in the first place -- in the fourth. Each of the players got some late run, but never together as a unit. As such, the offense was a simple mess on nearly every possession. There are two exceptions: Tyreke Evans, who was incredible in the first quarter, had a tremendous stuttered drive off a pick to spring Donte Greene for a wide open three, and Beno Udrih and Greene hooked up on a great cut.
Other than that? Wild post moves, unbalanced jumpers by the wrong dudes, woefully inadequate plays.
Down eight with 2-1/2 minutes left and sorely needing a basket, Westphal took a timeout. What play resulted? A contested 25-footer from Evans off the dribble. Needless to say, it missed. Did Westphal call for a Tyreke three off-the-dribble? Did Westphal request something else and Evans freelanced? Either way, it doesn't look good. That can't happen. Not now, after all these losses. Not now, in the 97th game with Westphal at the head of the team. Either way, the coach needs to take some responsibility for the readily apparent problem with what's going on right there on the court.
In the post-game press conference, Westphal blamed his players. He called them "guilty," even. "Guilty." (He's right. They were guilty of unfocused play in the fourth. Almost across the board.) Westphal had rather pointed answers to questions about Evans' rough second half, and while he will no doubt deflect it as honesty or frank talk, it seemed pretty clear to this observer that he understands the heat he's about to take. I've seen coaches thrash for a life preserver before, and it ain't pretty. It wasn't pretty when Reggie Theus talked about his blinking hard hat, or when Eric Musselman boasted to reporters that it was only he who would get to the arena at 6 AM.
This is the beginning of the self-preservation phase of Westphal's tenure, and it's not a good look. A couple wins can turn it around, but they need to arrive by express mail, and hell, they'd might need to be neatly wrapped, too. Whether it's his fault or not, Westphal's clock is a'tickin'.
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I'm glad I decided to watch college football instead of the Kings
Reading your Tweets Ziller, this was a complete meltdown by the players and coaches.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
2010 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants
Like I said in the other thread
If we lose to the Pacers, Westphal is in some serious trouble, because the Lakers and Mavs are coming up as well, then two winnable games against the Clippers and Wizards, but then a 5 game stretch of nasty against the Heat/Rockets/Hornets/Thunder/Rockets
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
You know what's fucked up....
I started watching the game the end of the 3rd, we were up by like 8 or 9, and I’m like oh shit were actually playing basketball. Then here comes the 4th quater, and boooom, shit hits the fan…….. This fuckin sucks. Somethings gotta give.
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
I hear Roy Hibbert is ballin
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Yep.
I expected them too, but I wasn’t expecting Hibbert to have improved as much as he has.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Hibbert is the only player who has surprised me more than Joakim Noah.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I didn't hear the presser.
But I’m not surprised. And, it ain’t going to be pretty. PW isn’t at fault, but I can’t blame him for not playing the starting lineup. Nothing was working in that 2nd half and pretty much everyone fell off. These guys just don’t get it. For whatever reason.
Tonight was a shining example of having so much youth on the team: It doesn’t usually work when the players don’t get from A-B consistently. And what player played the same way (ignoring Carl Landry here) who played significant minutes? Is Paul Westphal really that culpable here?
Calling for Paul Westphal’s head is fine, but he’s not really the problem. He’s no great shakes either, but firing him will produce nothing.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 27, 2010 9:59 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
It's going to fall on deaf ears.
Whatever.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think you can say "PW isn't at fault"
He may not be the primary (or even non-primary) culprit, but he deserves some of the blame for the mess that’s on the court right now.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 27, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not saying he doesn't deserve any blame in total.
Let’s be honest; Did Paul Westphal screw up the execution in the 2nd half? If he gets fired, it will be amazing to see a turnaround.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
he did not put the starting line up back in
the lineup that got us the lead to begin with
I know that.
I just don’t think it mattered. The team that showed up in the 1st half wasn’t the team that showed up in the 2nd half. Does it really mattered what combinations PW used when he used that lineup to start the 3rd qtr and they played so poorly?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Absolutely it matters what combinations PW used
It’s the same conceptual problem that many have with Westphal – he sees something he doesn’t like (in this case a poor stretch of basketball) and he overreacts to it. He does it with both individuals and groups of players.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
If the players don't play well to open the 2nd half...
…how is that his fault? it’s the same combination he used to start the game. Right? Isn’t he supposed to look for a combination that works at some point?
This is bordering upon severe and crippling hypocrisy.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure where you get "hypocrisy"
I’ve been onboard with PW using a set starting 5 and normalizing his rotations. They are going to have stretches where the play poorly, no doubt about it. But they also have had some of the only ongoing success this team has seen in the last 5 games. So let them try to play through it and gel.
PW’s rotations in the fourth were horrendous, you aren’t going to convince me otherwise. The proof stared us right in the face – the 5 starters could easily have outproduced what we saw on the court.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
We disagree here.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The starting five
was only -1 in the third quarter. They weren’t as smooth, certainly, but they held back the Bulls, too.
What's really frightening
is that in spite of the turnover run in the 3rd quarter, the Kings still maintained a 12 point lead with 2:45 left in the period (they lead by 13 at the half). They then proceeded to get outscored 36-14 over the final 14:45. Ugh.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
You have to give credit to the Bulls Defense
they came out playing well in the 2nd, had they been playing that way all game, we wouldnt be talking about a great half the Kings had
Sometimes i think to myself, "why do i root for this team?" then i read the comments about the team by the "fans" and i realize, i root for the team because i add some intelligence to the fan base.
by JZiadeh on Nov 27, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 28, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
The players screwed up the execution
But PW may have screwed up the rotations. Ziller’s point about the starting lineup has merit.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
PW said he went with Greene and Casspi
Because Bulls went small and he didn’t think JT could guard whoever.
That was his logic, judge it as you will.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Theoretically you could judge it by the on-court results :)
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 27, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
My logic is that they also wouldn't have been able to guard JT.
and that I hate how often he reacts to what the other team is doing instead of trying to force his own mismatch.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I think it must be in the King's bylaws
that we have to match up to the other team, rather than vice versa.
Every coach we have had seems to have been that way.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
This is called the Avery Johnson Phenomenon
Also known as “How to Lose a First Round Playoff Matchup to an 8th Seed”
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Westphal did screw up the 2nd half execution with his lack adjustments.
Everyone in the world knew that the Bulls would come out in the second half stopping Reke’s drive. The Kings never adjusted to that. Perhaps that falls on the players. It looked like the coaching staff never thought of, or discussed any alternate offensive plan.
I think it's partly PW
But sometimes I seriously question the basketball IQ of some of these players.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
I question it too. Starting with Tyreke. He better take a good luck at himself if he expects to change this losing.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 27, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Tyrekes gonna have to take a good look after this one
Derrick Rose spun him into the ground with a big time cross over
That's not why the Kings lost.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The more I watch tyreke, the more I wonder about his head. I don’t know if it is a disconnect from the coaches, or just poor decision making in general.
by MichaelMack on Nov 28, 2010 12:23 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
A little of both
Surely a year of “OHMYGOSH! Tyreke’s our savior” and “His rookie stats are like Oscar’s, Magic’s, and Lebron’s” may have gone to his head a little.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Yep
Last week I was greeted with “Tyreke did 20-5-5, now shut the fuck up.” I don’t sense I’ll be hearing much of that going forward.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
Are you talking about reaction to your fanpost?
Because the response, though tepid, did not seem overwhelmingly negative to me – I think that about one third of the dozen comments strongly disagreed with you. Maybe you’re talikng about in the threads somewhere?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yes, in the threads
It was a RonBoy comment. Can’t remember in which one.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
by NewEraKings on Nov 28, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
rec'd
Michae Bluth - "Clear as the Ann on plain's face."
Leela -" Man, I'm sore all over. I feel like I just went ten rounds with mighty Thor"
Fry - "I feel like I was mauled by Jesus. "
Homer - " When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power…like God must feel when he’s holding a gun."
Yes, it is obviously not PW's fault that there isn't any coherent offensive scheme
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
I saw some stuff I haven't seen before this year in the first half
The 2-1-2 with Daly in the middle look pretty nice to me, could look even better with Demarcus on a good day.
I think the truth about the offense is that Paul wants to put it on the players, like the defense. The issue is we don’t have very smart players, it could be any number of reasons from youth to…well just being dumb. Good players can play more freelance and make good decisions, we just don’t have really smart players.
by jstnblke41 on Nov 28, 2010 2:34 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This may be one of the most intuitive assessments I've read this season.
At least it goes along with my idea that PW is use to playing a lot of veteran players and doesn’t know how to script an offense for rookies.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Nov 28, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
You can’t win a grand prix with a go kart, Whether you have my gran at the wheel or Michael Schumacher. Not saying PW is Michael Schumacher, but he is definitely trying to get a go kart going here…
PW isn't expected to win the grand prix
Right now, he seems to struggle keeping the go kart on the track and avoid crashing.
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on Nov 28, 2010 1:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I’m just telling you that the freight train is coming down the tunnel, and Westphal’s desperately trying to move behind his players so they get nailed first.
Unless Elie is the new Avery Johnson, firing Westphal doesn’t solve anything.
Elie's probably not the next Avery Johnson
which could be both a good and a bad thing.
However, I’m willing to go out on a limb here and say that he’s definitely not the next Kenny Natt, either
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I'm not sure how we can know either
His name pops up a lot, but how much of this mess can be attached to him? I believe he’s considered the lead assistant isn’t he?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
And Jim Eyen and Mario Elie are the guys more or less who come up with the defensive schemes.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Maloof's overreact?
Couldn’t have seen that one coming…..
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He doesn't have to be the next Avery Johnson, just not the next Paul Westphal
PW has made some successful changes to the defense this season, mostly by taking Beno out of the starting lineup and reentering Donte.
But, the rediculous and constant changes while trying to find something on the bench that isn’t there just seems to be ingrained in his nature. And, his habitual need to match up with the other coaches lineup instead of playing to our strengths, is frustrating beyond belief.
We are not a veteran team, we’re a rebuilding team with young talent that needs to be taught how to play together. And, while that fact should have been known by any coach thinking of coming to the Kings, the fact seems to elude Westphal. As Section pointed out, none of our young guys from last year are playing any better in his offense, and he’s convinced DeMarcus that he’s a SG.
To quote jstnbike41
the truth about the offense is that Paul wants to put it on the players, like the defense. The issue is we don’t have very smart players, it could be any number of reasons from youth to…well just being dumb. Good players can play more freelance and make good decisions, we just don’t have really smart players.
Westphal’s known as a players coach because he gives them the freedom to do their own thing. Which is fine for veterans, but what a young inexperienced team needs isn’t freedom, it’s stucture. I’m being to think that Avery Johnson or someone like him would have been a better choice.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Nov 28, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec for quoting me
I’ve never been quoted before, pretty much feel like a big shot right now.
oh, come on
I just watched the presser. Yes, Westphal was critical of his players’ execution, but it seemed like standard issue “coaching”, which is much different than:
(a) hey guys, I know what it looks like when a coach is about to get fired, and this is it; or
(b) a selfish bastard throwing his team under the bus so that his neck is spared.
Is he NOT supposed to call out the players for lack of execution??
This post reads like an egotist with a real axe to grind against the coach.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Hate to say you got an axe to grind TZ.....
….but it sounds like that to me too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And feel free to say I'm late on saying that too. Today I am.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Did Westphal call for a Tyreke three off-the-dribble? Did Westphal request something else and Evans freelanced? Either way, it doesn’t look good.
These are fair questions.
Evans said this post Clippers-Kings:
“We run the play sometimes and then we break the play sometimes,” Evans said. "I don’t know. I couldn’t even tell you.
I’m starting to think it may be Evans’ decision making…
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
It is his decision making.
If he gets PW fired, then bleh.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ah, I forgot to bold the "break the play sometimes" part of the quote
But you get the picture.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
I do. It's nothing good.
This team needs a new mix and until the Kings get that, this will keep happening. Maybe we should root for Carmelo Anthony to be traded to the Nets so we can acquire Chauncey Billups.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Billups would be the perfect mentor for Reke.
It’s too bad he didn’t get to play for Team USA.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah. I wouldn't mind Billups or Prince.
If they don’t get a player like that with that type of savvy, the Kings are screwed. It’s very obvious now.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think PW will go down with Tyreke
But, in reality, he doesn’t have much choice. While I said last week they are often better without him on the floor, he still needs to play 30 minutes per game.
But it isn’t going to surprise me if something starts to click consistently without Tyreke on the floor and he decides to milk it, if he remembers how for more than one game.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
At that point
I would have liked to see an actual play executed.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
demarcus couisins what is wrong with him
it looks like he has completely forgot how to play basketball, rule the jazz game out because that was in garbage time when he played decent. He has been a disaster out there. I know the excuse that he is young, i don’t want to hear it, he is out of control every time he touches the ball. I don’t even think he looks at the rim at some of his attempts. He makes the stupidest fouls. Also his attitude so far is a major problem, one foul call by the refs and it completely takes him out of his game.
If I was PW I would make a rule
No spin moves, no more than 2 dribbles. DMC trys to do way too much right now.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Reminds me of Spencer Hawes
Spencer would always try to make 19 moves instead of developing 2-3 go-to moves.
DMC needs to keep it simple, stick his ass in the opponent and back him down and shoot that nice little hook. Take the short jumper if it’s there. Or camp near the bucket and become a garbage king.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
by NewEraKings on Nov 28, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
DMC is not the quickest or fastest cat on the court, but he actually needs to slow the game down for himself and simplify things on the offensive end.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And if something's not there
Kick it back out and repost. Problem is, when he does that, he never sees the ball again.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
by NewEraKings on Nov 28, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
poor DMC...
thrown into chaos his rookie year. expectations are simply out of this world. poor guy…
by Kaylee19 on Nov 28, 2010 1:05 AM PST up reply actions
It's not expectations.
If you watched the game, you would have seen that Demarcus makes some really dumb plays. He tries to spin around his defender A LOT. And in this last game (4th quarter), he tried doing it in the lane, at about 8-10 feet out. It’s like he thinks he’s a 6’ 3" guard on the court and expects opponents to watch him in awe instead stripping the ball from him, which they did.
I kinda give him a break on fouls, because it’s common for young players to get fouls and some of his fouls really are poorly called.
He does seem to be regressing
DMC is another reason why expectations were higher for King’s this year. Unfortunately, marketing hype, youth, rotations and losing are not supporting development of this big. I’m tempted to throw in attitude issues but that would just be pure speculation. King’s apparently saw the need to provide a high level of support by hiring the high school coach. While it won’t happen, DMC could use some time in the D league.
When the coach starts pointing fingers - publicly - which is totally against his grain
and the fans starting giving fingers it is unhappy hand to play for all
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I honestly feel
that this Kings team as it stands is too young for Westphal’s style of coaching. These “kids” need a veteran, hard nosed, no nonsense coach. Maybe someone like Jeff Van Gundy?
I was uncool before it was cool
by Dirkula on Nov 27, 2010 10:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
your right
hes a coach for a veteran squad, most of the players on the suns when he went to the finals were all old
I don't think JVG will deal with the youth. Coaches hate youth because it's so difficult to win with in the NBA.
The Maloofs and Petrie have locked in they are committed to this youth. I’m hoping that they change this policy soon and hunt for one (maybe two) vet’s that can help this team grow. I’m hoping it can keep Westphal and move onto a better coach if Westphal doesn’t show to have the chops with a better vet around.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You and I definitely agree on that
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Good.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I like JVG but his cardiologist would nix that signing
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So
are who are the available coaches around the league right now? I mean, I know there are a lot of young unproven coaches but I worry that this team needs a Father figure type who has been through some adversity and has high expectations regardless.
Its always that tough teacher you hated who becomes your biggest influence.
I was uncool before it was cool
Byron Scott?
Does anyone care for the Princeton Offense again? Maybe him and Yoda can work some magic….
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
He's coaching the Cavs right now
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
oooh Shit...
My bad lol
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Wasnt Eddie
our coach once upon a time? I dont see Petrie going back to someone he already let go once before.
I was uncool before it was cool
If I remember correctly wasn't he in the mix before we settled on PW?
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
he was taken by Philly
and summarrily dismissed
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone know about
Bill Cartwright?
I know he is unproven, but he was a great post player and is from the area. I think he is currently an assistant for Phoenix,.
I was uncool before it was cool
51-100 in his stint as Bulls head coach
Met him once – great guy.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yeah
Ive met him too and was impressed. Not so much with that record though.
Im at a loss for a replacement. I guess we will just need to be patient and let this thing play out.
Still think we need to acquire a veteran or two though.
I was uncool before it was cool
I had forgotten
that the Kings actually interviewed Cartwright just prior to hiring Theus.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Excellent reminder indeed.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I went to his basketball camp for three summers. He was pretty terrific, very chatty and particapatory. Fun stuff.
by MichaelMack on Nov 27, 2010 11:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
My son went too. Great guy.
but my son still couldn’t go left after camp so I ended up paying his way thru college. To my way of thinking Bill owes me 40K. So unless I get 40K worth of season tickets I vote no.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Petrie should just try and coach
then he could see what kind of talent hes been giving his coaches
Kevin McHale v.2.0 ?
yikes. He will retire before that happens.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
I gotta say
he’s coaching the Cavs quite well. They have two less wins than Miami. I’m pretty damned surprised
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
I'm not that surprised by Cleveland
they have pretty decent talent, but it got lost in relying too much around LBJ. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here for the Kings.
Of course, Miami having their current record is a bit surprising. And yes, Scott has done a damned good job, too.
Dunking Dutchman
In my mind, PW is as fatherly as possible.
Losing hurts. Tough love hurts. More discipline would be met with more disdain. Musselman is a task master. Reggie tried. Natt tried.
If, and I repeat, IF, the Kings went balls to the wall, tough defensive minded coach, a la JVG, they might get more rope to play with, but this team is still two or more seasons from significance. I would go JVG after they get more of a talent infusion and a year, better two, of experience to make it work.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah JVG wouldn't do it
He’d probably lose the rest of his hair trying to coach this team.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
You're talking about his pubic hair right?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well he's still got some hair around his head. Just not on top
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I know. I wanted to make an asshole joke. .LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I also don't think Petrie and JVG would be a good match
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
ack
I also think not don’t think – bad english, sorry
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder how much more job security Petrie has.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
desperation is a lonely business plan
that’s digging a deeper hole.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. The Maloof's have gotten desperate in the past...
….and this situation isn’t bound to be helping.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed, all the ticket specials in the world won't sell tickets for this team
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Hah
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
I agree Pookey
a couple veterans to count on would be fantastic. I think it would help everyone and possibly bring some stability. My only concern is, who do we go after and who are we willing to part with? I just dont see a lot of value on our team right now for any of the veteran players we might want.
I was uncool before it was cool
That is a concern.
JT & Donte don’t really have value to a team unless you can use your cap space in conjunction to acquire a player like Billups when the team he’s on (the Nuggets) are well over the tax and a move like that would take them under the tax line.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think they do
Has anyone ever thought about Patrick Ewing? isn’t he waiting for a chance to coach. He could also be an excellent mentor to J.T. and Demarcus
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
You might be right but I don't think so.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He did a pretty good job with Dwight, and his mentor is a Van Gundy
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Yeah. Doesn't mean he's a head coach either.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
they gotta get someone better to teach these big men
look how demarcus is playing
I'm not sure a coach can make DeMarcus Cousins how to get quality shots against NBA bigs.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
DMC
Does some very weird things on the basketball court. I think we drafted Daryl Dawkins.
by MichaelMack on Nov 28, 2010 12:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
DeMarcus
is simply trying to play too fast right now. He is rushing everything and trying to make the game go his way rather than adjusting to it.
I was uncool before it was cool
he tried a spin from the top of the paint to try and get to the basket
hes not even thinking out there
I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
If we gave Kenny Natt a chance, we'll give anybody a chance
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Bill Laimbeer is an assistant on the T-Wolves
He won 3 WNBA championships with the Detroit Shock and also won Coach of the Year during the first championship run. Although he lacks NBA coaching pedigree, he does have a player pedigree, reputation, and coaching experience. He’s made his desire to be an NBA head coach well known, so he’d definitely be open to the position. I think this could be the perfect match. Thoughts?
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
You're one sentence about his boyish good looks away from getting slapped
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Lol, I honestly thought it was a good idea.
he’s supposed to be a good coach….isn’t he?
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Anyone will be a better coach now! I would give Elie a chance and see what happens!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
The Problem
Can you name the only player who played the entire 4th quarter? I’ll give you a hint. He does not play Defense, help’s the offense come to a standstill and did not shoot well. If you guessed BENO, you are correct. Not once did we go back to the Luther/Tyreke backcourt that played well in the first half and so so in the second half. Luther is not a scorer he passes the ball and plays D. Beno played the entire 4th quarter and did not do much of anything.
by bstone76 on Nov 27, 2010 10:20 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
Yup, I commented in the game thread how I didn't understand this move at all
Still don’t.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Westphal
Pack your bags. Book your plane ticket home. Put your house for sale. And get the hell out.
by theduke85 on Nov 27, 2010 10:25 PM PST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Apparently Westphal didn't go with JT in the fourth
Because he didn’t like the matchup with him and Deng.
Yet this is the same guy who started JT at the three, and had him play against guys like Rudy Gay. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 27, 2010 10:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
At this point
I think that “consistency” is about the only argument left for keeping Westphal around.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
That argument is ironic
Considering the fact that Consistency and Westphal is an oxymoron.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 27, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
heh...very true
I’m not necessarily hoping that the team fire Westphal, but it’s hard to forget that he was a scrap-heap coach when we picked him up. He should rightfully be on the hot seat for the product on the floor right now (as should Petrie, to be honest).
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
A move needs to happen somewhere
Whether it be coach or players.
I honestly think I like JT in the starting lineup over Landry though. Landry for all his skill, dominates the ball probably even more so than Reke. Once he has that ball, he’s either going to shoot it or turn it over. JT is much better defensively, on the boards, and as a facilitator. I’m no longer considering Landry a part of our future and think we should trade him ASAP.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 27, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Carl Landry
might be our 1 player that teams want, they should do a deal for him fast
by DK209 on Nov 27, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What could we get for Carl?
and what are teams willing to give up for Carl?
Sometimes i think to myself, "why do i root for this team?" then i read the comments about the team by the "fans" and i realize, i root for the team because i add some intelligence to the fan base.
One could argue that Landry is the Kings best player right now
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
he barely played tonight
i thought your supposed to play your best players
Back issues, missed shootaround,
and shot poorly when he was in the game.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
He is not our best player. He is an atrocious defensive rebounder, poor passer, and mediocre defender. He is a force down low, and should be our sixth man.
by MichaelMack on Nov 27, 2010 11:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Harden, Affalo, Courtney Lee, Brooks,Billups, Augustine,Flynn,
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Agreed, Landry's gonna want to get paid at the end of the year
I like his offensive skills and everything, but I’d rather trade him for a veteran SG or PG
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
the way things are going
Landry will gladly accept less money elsewhere than stay at this mess here…
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on Nov 28, 2010 12:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good point.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 28, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Lets bring in Charles Oakley for Demarcus and J.T. ; )
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
One quick non Kings point:
Lebron really made a stupid decision to take his talents to South Beach instead of Chicago. Lebron, Rose, Noah and an actual quality supporting cast. Yikes!
smell the ashes
by iamstern'skippah! on Nov 27, 2010 10:29 PM PST reply actions
I think they'll end up trading one of Bosh or Wade in a year or two if they haven't won a title
for a few players who aren’t as good singularly, but improve the depth a lot.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
i dont think they trade Wade
but Bosh would be the likely one to go if it doesnt work out
Sometimes i think to myself, "why do i root for this team?" then i read the comments about the team by the "fans" and i realize, i root for the team because i add some intelligence to the fan base.
LeBron will go before Wade
unless Chicago is named. Everyone is waiting for the “Undecision” but 14 games into the season is not the time to talk about this.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Bosh for sure if they don't win a title in the next few years. Not Wade, as he's Mr. Heat.
Although with Bosh’s contract that I don’t know if trading him will be that easy.
smell the ashes
by iamstern'skippah! on Nov 27, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think the Heat will be fine
probably this year, but maybe not. They had no $ for depth this year…the team they will be will look more like itself next year when they have something other than minimum to offer
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
They won't trade Wade, but that's the route I'd go.
They can’t complete this trade until Dec 15, but i’d trade:
Wade and Joel Anthony to Denver
Billups, Afflalo, Birdman, and a 1st round pick to Miami
Denver would do this trade in a heartbeat, because acquiring Wade means Melo resigns.
And I think Miami would benefit IMMENSELY by having Billups and Afflalo in their starting lineup.
Bosh and LeBron have been great together as a duo…and Wade < LeBron in basketball reality.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
I doubt it
It’s en vogue to bash on the Miami thing now, but down the road they will be fine.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
need some vets
this team definitely needs some veteran leadership. But, the maloofs seems pretty committed to doing this rebuild on the cheap. As for PW he’s not getting through and the teams is regressing; he has to be held accountable for the lack of improvement.
but aren't the bulls young too???
Perhaps we need veteran leadership..but how many years have Rose and Noah been in the league? The whole “we are a young team” excuse is getting tired.
by Kaylee19 on Nov 28, 2010 1:01 AM PST up reply actions
Shame on you sillysill,
You can blame anybody except the sign lady
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
I can't sign off on that one
that is below the barrel you are scraping
by betweentheeyes on Nov 27, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
I blame all the StRers who didn't tune in until the second half.
Check the score…if we’re winning. Stay away!!!1 Go watch a movie. Damn jinxes.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Nov 27, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because it hasn't been referenced yet
Nice Chinua Achebe allusion in the title.
I remember reading that book in high school, or middle school.
I actually don’t remember when I read that book, but it was somewhere in there.
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
carl?
i didnt get to watch the game but it says landry only played about 9 min total…so what happened there? i liked the starting lineup btw! put carl back into that 6th man role he was so good at in houston.
Also it sounds like we played 3 pretty good quarters out of 4. now i know we lost the game by not playing the whole game but it sounds like a vast improvement from how we have been playing it so happens to have been against a pretty good team in the chicago bulls! i see great promise in this game, although it might just be my unwavering optimism for this team!
Landry
Bad back – missed shootaround – shot poorly when he got into the game – JT was playing well.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm tired of hearing the vast improvement, then when we lose the next game everybody talks about we regressed from the last game...
The pretty good Bulls team played last night against Denver!
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
at the end of a 2 week roadtrip...
i can’t imagine they were that passionate about playing the Kings as the last game of a 2 week roadtrip after a barnburner the day before in the mile high city. This is a game where even great teams “play down to their competition”. Kings shoulda won. plain and simple.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
And another thing (Damn I'm pissed tonight)
Beno is back on my sh*tlist. Beno has not just been terrible defensively, but also offensively. I don’t know why he was in the game at all during the 4th quarter. -17 on the game, and most of those minutes came in the 2nd half. Tyreke and Luther apparently played well together tonight, yet didn’t see many minutes, and none together in the 4th.
I’m going to stop writing now and take a breather before I write the Good, Bad and Ugly for tomorrow. Otherwise it just might come off as one huge illegible rant, which to be honest, it might become anyway.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 27, 2010 10:54 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rant pookey, rant, rant away please
It will make me feel so much better…
I hope you guys aren't trying to have me get a virus, thats f'd up - MarcusC
Never in my life did I think I would read the phrase
Akyis noy pookey and know what it meant. Damn StR,
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Nov 27, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
truth
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Nov 27, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
Beno's been pretty horrid
I’m surprised people have been calling for him to start again, since he hasn’t been making the ball movement any better when he’s in the game.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 27, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Beno is a detriment.
Hey guys, new guy here. Was watching the game through till the late 4th quarter and then I got sick of watching the Kings make turnovers and missing shots and I shut off the stream.
I agree with your sentiments Aykis, Beno is too much of a handicap when he’s doing poorly on offense and then you add the fact that he’s a defensive liability, it’s a huge risk putting him on the floor, especially in tight games. Beno is too focused on the offensive side of the game and isn’t spending enough time commanding the team, hence the team has a tendency to give the ball to Tyreke, who happens to have poor judgement in late game plays. (He also has tunnel vision leading towards the hoop.)
I think the Kings and Westphal need to realize that:
1) The team needs to take the ball and the leadership out of Tyreke’s hands. He just isn’t a PG or a floor leader at this point.
2) Beno is not a good enough floor leader either. His defense is lacking and he has too much of a scorer’s mentality. Instead of interchanging Head and Beno, it actually should be Beno and Tyreke. (And in this case, I’d rather have Francisco over Beno.)
3) Head, while great with the D, is obviously bench material. He’s a streaky shooter and is an average passer, but he’s still a better option on the floor with Tyreke than Beno is.
4) As stated everywhere on this site: WE NEED A REAL POINT GUARD. (I’ve seen the post that discussed this, so I won’t go into describing what kind of PG we need.)
by M. Thai on Nov 28, 2010 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good first post
I agree with many of your points. But despite Beno’s horrible performance last night, he has been the guy who was pretty efficient at running our offense last year, and he seemed a capable backcourt partner to Tyreke. So something has gone wrong in the meantime, and I’m not sure whether a larger portion of the blame in that regard belongs to Beno.
Dunking Dutchman
Beno seems to yell at everyone to move around and then he dribles the ball and shoots it or turns it over! That is very efficient!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
Beno vs head
I was fine with most of Beno’s plays, aside from passing up wide open shots that led to shot clock violations. Head wasn’t able to really do anything to Rose defensively and when he got the ball he would just dribble out the clock, pump fake at the three, and fail. So if his defense isn’t giving us anything than there is no reason to have him in the game.
This was my feeling too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You made my point for me.
“…passing up wide open shots that led to shot clock violations.”
There should absolutely be no reason that the point guard is not watching the game clock and managing time efficiently.
Although I agree that Head isn’t that much better as a PG, he is a bench player after all, I’d still rather have defense over offense.
Beno the point?
Isn’t Tyreke supposedly our point guard? Even though he is NaPG? The problem with Head (can’t believe i just had to type that) is that he wasn’t successful at playing defense in this particular game.
Three guards, none are PGs.
The team is running two guards at any given moment. Neither Evans, Beno, or Head is identified as the point guard (regardless of what the stat board and their heights suggests) and all manage the ball during games at different intervals. To answer your question about Tyreke, rather than call him NaPG, I’d rather call him a SG and be done with it. Either way, he shouldn’t be managing the ball.
As for the Beno and Head situation, we all know D. Rose hurt the Kings, regardless of who was put on him. Would it have made a difference with Beno taking up more minutes? I don’t think so. He had a poor shooting performance (2-7, .286% FG) and 5 fouls (tied with Cousins for the highest on the team) playing a minute and a half less than Head. Unless Beno changes his mindset and comes out onto the court looking to make plays for his teammates, he’s a liability.
a double dose
of garbage. being as neither could stop rose and neither was playing well on offense, i would still stick with beno because he would be more likely to get going offensively than for luther to magically be able to stop rose. But i see your point and appreciate that it is backed up by data.
although tyreke was doing ok defending rose and kyle korver wasn’t very effective when beno was covering him.
side note- do you think the bulls would be willing to part with korver. looks like the kind of shooter who would pair well with mr. NaPG
Beno seemingly has no confidence in his 3-point shot
At least twice last night he had clean looks from 3, and gave them up to dribble into the middle of the lane for a contested jumper. Of course, when Luther has a clean look at a 3 he pump-fakes the empty space in front of him, guaranteeing that a defender will reach him before he can actually shoot.
Which option do we find less painful?
Which make Thai's original point that we need a starting PG.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Seems like ever since the Utah game
where Beno made those comments about what the kings dont do, Beno has been making bad passes, missing shots, missing open guys, bad defense, blah blah blah. No team in Beno either.
Watching Beno this year
I kind of felt like something was off in his play this year. I looked at his stats, and they’re pretty much similar to the last two seasons. His baskets assisted are down by 4% though, so he might have a point about the team having to work harder for baskets.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
All i can say is Go JT Go..Got to give him some kudos on this game
FG – A : 6-12
FT – A :6-7
Rebounds : 9 (1/8)
Assists: 4
PFs: 3
TO’s : 3
Blocks: 1
Points: 18
50% shooting and good rebounding #‘s in 33 minutes makes me very happy for JT..I still don’t think he gets the credit he deserves..He was playing some pretty dang good D out there and why they took him out in the 4th due to Deng being is frustrates the crap outta me
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
He did make some bonehead plays in the second half
That being said, he needs more minutes. He is a very good rebounder, decent passer, good jump shooter, and his hustle makes a difference. His size and mobility are good assets, and we haven’t used then well this year. Landry us a warrior under the hoop, but he matches up poorly on defense, his rebounding is poor, and I am not sure he has an assist thus year. Trade Landry before we lose him to FA.
by MichaelMack on Nov 28, 2010 12:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
That’s been my take since we started discussing trades..I would rather a good all around guy then a great 1 minded guy.. JT has been nothing but a warrior and ferocious for us..He is learning to keep the fouls in check more and more (i am not counting his time at SF, because when running against smaller guys, its gonna happen) Carl I think would net us more in the long run anyways and would be best for a championship team where he would thrive more off the bench with better players.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
And, if we needed another Center he'd work out just fine.
But, he isn’t a better Center than Dalembert who had 12pts 6 rebs and 5 blks playing PF. And, JT doesn’t have the upside of DeMarcus.
JT had a fine 1st half with 12pt & 7rebs, hitting a lot of short shots he normally misses. But, 6pts and 2 rebs in the 2nd half, didn’t help keep us in the game.
It might be interesting to see how JT matches up with Hibbert should PW start the same lineup against Ind.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Doesn’t landrys defense bother you HT? You commented on his one physical play against Griffin, but the reality is that he stops Boone, and is a tragic defensive rebounder. His offense can be invaluable, but it is an individual offense, he isn’t exactly mr. Ball movement.
by MichaelMack on Nov 28, 2010 1:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hard to judge most of our players because of all the switches and poor rotations on help defense
But, as for man to man, Landry is one of the better defenders.
Millsap has a 19.7 pts average and we held him to 11.
West averages 18.8 and we held him to 17.
And, Amare shot a little over his average , but overall Carl scores more than he give up.
As I’ve said, his pick n roll defense is sad. and, he’s not going to block any shots or give you much help from the weakside. But, he doesn’t foul too often, only 8 more than JT and in twice the playing time. And, he’s only one year ahead of JT.
So, no it doen’t bother me any more than any other of the young guys.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Oh, silly autocorrect
but the reality is that he stops Boone
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 28, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Umm back up PF..I didnt say he needed to start, but for his price we should be keeping him
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
As Jerry has said on more than one occasion, JT might be better at Center than PF
I think there has been some improvements in JT’s game this season. But, I’m not sure PF is his best position right now. HoopsData even has him listed as a Center.
His jump shot has left him. Inside 10 ft he’s only shooting 36%, Mid Range 29% and Long range 38%. He can’t drive to the basket and finish strongly, so other than being able to defend some PF’s, I just don’t see the skill set to allow him to play the position. And, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he has his best game of the season playing Center.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I remember PW saying
something in the post game conference about the team not executing the same plays that they were during the first half. it seems to me that other teams are adjusting to what is working for the kings throughout the game whereas the Kings are unable to expose mismatches or other teams weaknesses, it reminds me of the saying “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on kings”.
by dude the bagman on Nov 28, 2010 1:41 AM PST reply actions
Good Thing
Only good thing is that JT played good and played some solid minutes (33min,19pt,9rb) and Reke’s comeback after three games with average of 9 points..And about PW:fire that guy…if things are not going right way just blame the team…He cant do that..What will team think..In fourth q he should played JT in low post..Against Gibson he would be better..That’s my opinion..
can't blame coach too much
I wonder what the management is thinking when hiring a new coach. A coach is not just going to change everything with a snap of a finger, he needs time. Mike Woodson is a perfect example, he made some progress even though he started off bad. Have to give PW at after the allstar break. We need a trade. Landry’s stock is high why not trade him for another starting caliber SG. I wish the Kings had gone after Matt Barnes or Steve Blake that would have made us better.
by Kenneth256 on Nov 28, 2010 7:36 AM PST via mobile reply actions
That was a post full of "hate" for Westphal
and it was well documented. I completely agree with it and I’m sorry to say that each game makes me believe that he has to be replaced ASAP. The next unknown coach couldn’t be worse than this.
Oh but it can,
and it will.
If we’re gonna yank Westphal, I say do it after… All-Star Break.
We’re not going to make the playoffs with this roster. Potential might be there, but we’re still woefully short on talent. So firing PW now is going to do more harm to this team than good. Simply because it would send the message to the players that they can run out any coach they don’t like by giving up on him.
Right now, the Maloofs and Petrie have to come out and support Westphal. Tell him, it’s his team, not Tyreke’s, not Cousins. Westphal. And behind the scenes also tell Westphal to quit with the stupid line-up randomness. Pick a starting line-up, pick a bench order, and stick with it best you can.
Yeah you can say that the inconsistency of the players is the main reason behind the line-up carousel, but PW’s constant rotation isn’t winning us games anyway, so let’s settle it down, and take our lumps. At least at the end of the day, maybe the young guys (maybe even the whole team) will at least know what their roles are.
This.
by elfboy_ on Nov 28, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Perspective!
I like it.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 28, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
In Westphal's time here he's never shown a tendency to pick a lineup and stick with it.
if the FO gives him a vote of confidence, what makes you believe that he will change?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I don't believe he will change,
so its on FO to tell Westphal behind the scenes to not do it (strongly if necessary). It might make Westphal quit due to ‘interference’ but hey, quitting means we don’t have to pay him severance right?
This.
westphal
I agree that we should have seen much more JT in the fourth, but westphal isn’t the one passing around the 3pt line away from open shots and into shot clock violations. westphal isn’t the one running the baseline than jumping to pass and getting jacked. Westphal isn’t the one who throws a high lazy pass into the post that the defender can poke away. Westphal isn’t dribbling around for 20 seconds than pump faking a three and not drawing the foul.
I really hope they didnt start JT to showcase him to other teams
If Kings are gonna trade a ‘big’, Landry and Dally should be the first ones to go.
We need to hurry up and trade Landry & Beno for Maynor & Krystic(exp)
At least to my untutored eye, Dalembert does an awful lot of things that don't show up in the boxscore
He alters a lot of shots, whether or not he blocks them. He also swallows up guard penetration- at least twice last night a Bull blew through our backcourt…and didn’t attempt a shot because Sam met them at the basket. I know his contract is expiring, and possibly he hasn’t been here long enough to endear himself to the fans, but without him I fear the Kings’ already questionable defense will implode.
agrree
send landry and sammy back to houston fdr brooks and martin ….LOL
we knew with our players being so young there'd be days like this
but we still wanted those young players, and we promised to be patient…
but now 15 games in, we want to fire PW and are whispering about GP’s own job security.
I think we’ve broken our promise.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Who's this "we" and why would you deign to speak for everyone else?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
15 games? More like 97 games under PW ...
This team has stunk the last five years! Some fans have had enough! They should be progressing not regressing. I don’t mind them loosing but how they are loosing is frustrating.
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
97 games
with multiple different rosters. 5 games with one roster, 40 with another, 15 with another, 22 with yet another. and that was just year one.
And, considering the injuries and player movement last season,
the unprecedented number of different lineups and rotations were reasonable.
But, 7 players returned. And, they are 7 of the top 10 players in minutes played. So there shouldn’t be any mystery about them and how they play. But, the lineups and rotations continue to change almost every game. And, not only have the 7 not improved over last year, but the 3 new players don’t seem to have been blended in with the previous players to make any kind of cohesive group or team.
Were on pace to have a worse record than last year, with basicly the same core as last season, Plus the #5 pick in the draft ( who a lot of people felt was the 2nd most talented) and the defensive stopper in Dalembert that Westphal so wanted.
Forget about last season, we had all of training camp, all of preseason, and a month of regular season, and this team has shown almost nothing in the way of improvement and seems to be on the verge of imploding.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
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