Paul Westphal Approaching Dick Motta's Dark Mark
Paul Westphal has now coached 97 regular season games for the Kings his record is 29-68, a winning percentage of .299. As he approaches his 100th game in charge of Sacramento, he also approaches a mark he won't want to set: worst record for any Sacramento-era Kings coach with at least 100 games under his belt.
The unfortunate soul who currently holds the dishonor is Dick Motta, the championship-winning coach who went just 48-113 (.298). If Westphal loses his next three games, he will fall behind Motta's mark at .290. Should the Kings win one of the games, Westphal would stay just ahead of Motta.
He would, however, be behind every other Sacramento-era Kings coach.
Reggie Theus was 44-62 (.415). Garry St. Jean went 159-236 (.402). Jerry Reynolds went 56-114 (.329). Phil Johnson went 50-77 (.394), not including his stint with the Kansas City Kings. Eddie Jordan just missed the 100-game cut-off, going 33-64 (.340) in 1+ season. Eric Musselman lasted 82 games, going 33-49 (.402). (We should note Scott Brooks got two of those wins for Muss.)
Kenny Natt and Bill Russell fight over the absolute worst record in Sacramento history. Natt went 58 games and came out with an 11-47 record (.189). Russell went 58 games and came out with a 17-41 record (.293). That's right -- if the Kings lose their next two games, Westphal will have a worse record as Kings coach than even Bill Russell.
Rick Adelman, by the way, remains the only coach in Sacramento Kings history with a winning overall record or even a single winning season. Adelman went 395-229, a .633 winning percentage.
(Disclaimer: I point out epic failure, but I still don't think Westphal should be fired. Just noting history.)
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Well, I'm convinced.
BRING BACK REGGIE!!!
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 29, 2010 5:59 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Curious
I got curious and went back to look for Kevin Pelton’s commentary on why Westphal was a bad idea based on his Seattle tenure. It sounds a bit prescient, to be honest.
Westphal took over in a tough spot at the end of the Sonics’ run, and I give him credit for his willingness to play young players and develop Rashard Lewis. Still, he hastened the end of the team’s run with his mismanagement. He inexplicably started Billy Owens (picked up, along with Olden Polynice, from the Kings — I’m sure I don’t have to tell you guys) over first Hersey Hawkins — who had started all 82 games the previous five seasons and never come off the bench in his life — and then Detlef Schrempf. Not only was Owens terrible and out of shape, it was a slap in the face to the team’s veterans.
Westphal also did poorly in terms of managing the team’s stars. Again, not an easy task, but he tried to coddle Gary Payton (who did not respect him at all) and went tough on Vin Baker (who crumbled mentally). By the time he was fired at the start of the 2000-01 season, there was little question he had lost the team.
I really don’t mean to pile on … this bleak time is just bringing up all these, er, questions.
by Tom Ziller on Nov 29, 2010 6:15 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree. It is prescient.
Personally, I can’t for the life of me see an argument for keeping Westphal. He has failed by virtually any measure we could come up with in the past 100 games.
Out of curiosity, why are you against firing him?
There are valid arguments for keeping him IMO
You do more harm than good by uprooting another coaching staff. And if you do this, the voice you put in charge is most likely temporary, since there isn’t a quality group of coaching candidates out there currently – and there’s likely to be better choices at the end of the season.
There really is little drawback to keeping Westphal around through the end of the season, unless you believe he’s going to do some irreparable harm to the younger players on the squad in the next 65 games.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I think you are correct that there will be more candidates at season's end.
However, I do think we are doing harm. Westphal is not effectively teaching anything except how to be uncompetitive.
This team is not just poor – it is horrendous. Losing badly does develop bad habits. This is a young, impressionable team. We have all said that they are looking lost, and sometimes look like they have quit. In addition, the fan base needs to see that this sort of performance is not acceptable. I don’t believe changing staffs is hurting anything at all. How much worse could it get?
Mike Fratello. If we could get him I think it is a no brainer.
I agree with replacing Westphal.
Keeping a bad fit of a coach for the sake not wanting to hurt the team even more is loser-talk. Do whatever it takes to get the right coach for this team’s personality and direction.
Sometimes you need to re-break a bone that didn’t get set right in the first place to heal it properly or you’ll walk with a limp your whole life.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 29, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
The question is though
Who do you replace him with? You just switch him out just to switch him out? You’d better be damn sure you aren’t replacing a mediocre-to-crappy coach with a downright putrid choice.
Sounds like you’d be ok with re-breaking and removing a bone and installing a chicken leg in its place just because it would be “different”.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Olden Polynice
and his legs object your argument, Otis, and would like the comment stricken from record….
"Indiviual results may vary, see participating stores for details...."
Obviously what I said is predicated on the hiring of a good coach.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 29, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
I must stress I am not the biggest PW fan in the world
That being said I would disagree somewhat
However, I do think we are doing harm. Westphal is not effectively teaching anything except how to be uncompetitive.
Only way a pro coach can “teach anything” is using carrots and sticks (playing time) along with schemes. I am telling you right now that if they dump him right now you will not get someone in there who will “teach anything” with defensive or offensive schemes or whatever. It won’t happen. All you can hope for in the teaching department is a coach who is willing to bench players to teach them a lesson. With all the travel during the season it’s very hard to teach much of anything new at this point.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Agree to a point.
If they learn nothing but ROLES it would be improvement.
A rotation of any kind would be an improvement. In addition, are you seriously saying that no mid-season coaching change has ever been beneficial?
Pat Riley was the product of an in-season coaching change when Paul Westhead was replaced early in the 1981 season, and Westhead had a WINNING record.
Interesting
I was unaware I wrote “No mid-season coaching change has ever been beneficial.” Must have been using that invisible internet ink.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It seems to me that you were basically arguing that.
“I am telling you right now that if they dump him right now you will not get someone in there who will "teach anything" with defensive or offensive schemes or whatever. "
Maybe I misunderstood you.
Hey if they do fire PW mid season (personally I think it's going to happen) I will be very curious what Ellie can do
I just find it very unlikely that he is going to start “teaching” much mid season is all I was trying to point out. He will likely only be able to gain control of the team through how he goes about using minutes as sticks and carrots. If Ellie becomes the coach I would be prepared to see more situations like what we saw with Greene earlier this year with the coach benching him to make a point. That’s it.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Someone should make a research
on the available Coaches out there.
I really can’t see how a new coach can be worse than this. Even if he is equally bad, a change will help the players morally.
I think we’re not far from a shoulder bump.
Section mentioned it yesterday
But if there’s a coaching change, I’d love to see the Kings bring in Lawrence Frank. That would be this offseason, which I think is the earliest there should be any change.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
Yeah Frank's a guy I'd like to
I believe he’s an assistant to Doc Rivers right now.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I'd be amenable to Lawrence Frank or Dwayne Casey.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't know much about Casey
Other than that he’s been in the talks for Head Coaching positions for several years now yet keeps getting beat to them by people that end up getting fired after a year or two.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Worked as Nate McMillan's assistant in Seattle.
Very defensive guy. He’s like Elston Turner. The question mark at that point would be how good of an offense the team would have.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also the Wolves head man.
Was 20-20 when he got canned for Randy Wittman.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Randy Wittman is as beloved at Canis Hoopus as Kenny Natt is here at StR.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
At least that much.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would love t see Frank or Casey on our sideline.
by MichaelMack on Nov 29, 2010 10:08 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I would have preferred both to PW.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But it's worth remembering that Frank was the head coach of the Nets at the time.
And who knows why about Casey? Maybe Geoff Petrie doesn’t think highly of him for another reason. It’s hard to say at this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As much as I'm intrigued by Elie
Giving him this roster as his first Head Coaching position would be a disservice to him. I have a feeling that he could be a good coach of a veteran team. Also, if we get another coach, I definitely don’t think we should go back to the rookie head coach route.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
True, but on the otherhand
I don’t want to pass up the potential Scott Brooks 2.0
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
Brooks had Durant and Westbrook
At the rate even Westbrook is playing right now, I don’t even know if the Kings have his kind of talent on the team. I think Tyreke can be better than Westbrook, but right now he isn’t and it isn’t even close. And then you throw in Durant as well? Brooks walked into a very, very good situation, and he made the most of it too.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
You are correct sir,
but IMO Brooks would have done a better job than any of the last four coaches we’ve had including PW. I’m happy for Scott that he found a good home in OKC. I just don’t want to see Elie find a nice home somewhere else while we dig at the bottom of the barrel for coaches.
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
I mentioned him elsewhere
How about Sam Mitchell? Former coach of the year at Toronto, fired when he started a season 8-9. If I am not mistaken, he had a pretty young team, with Bosh, TJ Ford, Calderon and Bargnani.
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on Nov 29, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like Mitchell if ...
… there’s a strong Xs and Os man next to him.
I’m also a huge mark for Dwane Casey.
I would be amenable to Casey.
Definitely not Mitchell.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
strong X's and O's man
hmm, I guess that rules out keeping PW on as an assistant.
Casey sounds good too.
Dunking Dutchman
Mike Fratello.
Winner at every level and at every stop.
Coaches to his talent.
Has coached stars and kids. Both uptempo and slowdown. Great defensive coach.
I'm getting the impression
You’re interested in Mike Fratello. Is this true?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Has he expressed an interest in getting back into coaching?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Good question. I honestly don't know.
He’s 63. Seems to me to be sharp and fit. That isn’t insanely old.
I’m looking to see if I can find any other good, experienced candidate. Assistants would not be available until the season is up.
This is definitely Mike Fratello talking.
Seems to me to be sharp and fit
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 29, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Westphal's 60 I think? So Fratello's only got a few years on him
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I'm getting the impression
That “Hoops Mike” is Mike Fratello.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Nov 29, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Friends don't let friends say yes to Mike Fratello
He was coach of the most uninteresting squad in NBA history – the Cleveland Cavaliers. The teams he coached weren’t allowed to fast break – they had to slow up and wait for him to call the play. They were a competitive losing team, many games featured scores in the 80s, and they had one of the slowest paces of all time.
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Nov 29, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are completely incorrect about losing.
In Cleveland he was over .500 every full season he coached.
I agree that the style was boring, but that was due to the lack of talent – and he still WON.
In Atlanta they played very uptempo when he had Wilkins, Rivers, Carr, Willis, Rollins etc…
the style that team played
was so miserable that I’m still projecting my feelings about it.
I’m not familiar with his run in Atlanta, I just never want anything like that Cavs team around here
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Nov 29, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
So - you'd actually rather be untalented and bad?
Winning cures everything.
Detroit won an NBA championship with a possession-limiting offense and stifling defense.
fire westfall now!
The reason he is here is because he is a cheap coach for maloffs.we are doomed!!!
by cowboyron96@yahoo.com on Nov 29, 2010 8:08 AM PST reply actions
Who do you suggest replaces him?
And how do you feel they could do a better job than the current staff?
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Nov 29, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
How about spell his name right..Its in the title of the freaking article here!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Pay Attention!
No possible way.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
...and spell "Maloofs" right.
How is this not “Sent via Mobile”?
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 29, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Bigger is not always better unfortunately.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
when have you made a comment that wasn't a complaint?
grow up
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
Good l uck with that.
Not saying, just saying….
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No offense
… and not to pile on, but you are adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. Except awful misspellings and messy grammar.
Reggie
I still do not understand why they off’d Theus. especially when you look at all the injuries he was dealing with. Maybe he didn’t toe the corp. line, how ever he was a lot better then the previous coach and the two that have followed him.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
Grant Napear always implied that Theus was gone because he wouldn't get rid of Chuck Person.
Who knows.
I think that was part of it
The rumors indicated that Theus was little more than Person’s handpuppet there at the end. Regardless, the team was playing atrociously when Theus was let go, and I don’t see that there has been a groundswell of support in the NBA for Theus to get another head coaching position.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
getting flashbacks to the whole "No cell phone" policy nonsense
ug
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Maturity was part of it
Amick had reported that Theus had been late for the team bus/flight at least once, and took calls on his cell during practice (despite the Theus Rules ban on cell phones on the team bus). In other words, he had a bit of Theus-the-Player attitude left.
The whole Douby fiasco that season was also a big deal. The Kings also cared a lot about Martin at the time, and Martin disliked Theus (for somewhat obvious if not completely fair reasons).
Theus had lost the team
Go back and look at the number of games that his team lost by 20+, 30+, I think that they even lost one by 40+ points.
One of the big differences last year when compared to the Theus/Natt year was the fact that last year’s team really stayed in the games for the most part, and played hard throughout. The same could not be said of the team under Theus/Natt in ‘08/’09. To be fair to Reggie, it was much more of a veteran club that had seemingly made up its mind to just play out the string. But it was what it was.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Big loss to laughable Knicks
A huge, 24-point loss to the bad, bad Knicks at ARCO sunk Theus. It followed huge losses to good teams and tight losses to awful teams.
The big 48-point loss to Boston at ARCO was on Natt’s watch. Most dreadful live experience in my history as a fan. Salmons was the high scorer with a whopping 11. Boston scored more in the second quarter than the Kings did in the entire first half.
Wasn't that the game where we only had 13 field goals the entire game?
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Let the suckitude roll!!!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ah no it was a 45 point loss
We had 19 field goals the whole game. Lost 108-63.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
You were at the Boston game too?
That was the worst experience I’ve ever had as a participant in any facet of any sporting event, and I’ve played on some bad, bad basketball teams and some bad, bad football teams. And I’m a hardcore fan of the Atlanta Falcons.
That Boston game… That was terrible.
by VenomySnicket on Nov 29, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I also attended that game
And even worse, got totally hosed on the tickets.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
The Maloofs did not like his dominant assistance
Chuck Person
Talent
Did the worst coaches of Kings history not have the proper players in place to play like a cohesive unit? Or was it a matter of the coach just not being able to rally all available talent together?
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
I'm going to say if you have NBA talent, you should be able to win some games if you are a decent coach
Look at Adelman in Houston over the past few years, Byron Scott in NOLA and Cleveland, Nate MacMillan in Portland. It can be done, and these Kings (I think) have more talent on the roster than Cleveland and Houston currently. But those teams are better teams because of coaching.
by VenomySnicket on Nov 29, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
The Kings don't have more talent than Houston. Especially in current production terms.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We'll disagree.
Their talent is better utilized by Adelman, where as the Kings are really scattered and confused as to how to work with their talent.
by VenomySnicket on Nov 29, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
We will disagree a lot on this.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'll side with pookey on this one
Yao > Dalembert, though Dalembert > Miller
Scola > Landry
Battier > Greene
Martin > Head
Evans > Brooks
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yao is hurt and doesn't count for the sake of argument. Besides, I like Dally/Cousins over Yao/Miller
Scola/Hill is probably better than Thompson/Landry
Battier/Budinger is not more talented than Casspi/Greene
Martin/Lee is infinitely more talented than Garcia/Head
Brooks/Lowry is not more talented than Evans/Udrih, even though I’d rather have either of Brooks/Lowry over Udrih at this point.
Adelman does more with less. Just an opinion though, not going to spend any more time hashing it out.
by VenomySnicket on Nov 29, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
It's what players are versus what they might one day become
You cannot objectively state that Casspi or Greene are better than Battier, because to this point in their careers, they have not been. In fact, if either Casspi or Greene ascended to the level of Battier, Kings management would wet their collective pants.
Aside from Evans, the Rockets are as good as or better than the Kings at every position, in my opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
In fact, if either Casspi or Greene ascended to the level of Battier, Kings management would wet their collective pants.
This.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The way Evans is playing lately
Evans > Brooks
He hasn’t been better than Kyle Lowry.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
Kyle Lowery doesn't have top NBA defenses gearing to stop him every night.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tyreke Evans
does a pretty good job of stopping himself.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
I knew you had a comeback.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Is there really any point to changing coaches now?
Ellie, aside, I do not see any benefit to changing coaches now. No legit coach is going to sign with us mid-season. Promoting Ellie is just setting him up for failure. We will once again be viewed around the league—by both players and coaches as dysfunctional. Quality coaches are far less likely to sign with a team that continues to cut their coaches. We will never know if this team with PW at the helm might have turned things around. The interim coach with have all the authority of a lame duck president. And even if we do win a couple more games, it will make absolutely no difference in the long run.
Lots of risks, very little upside. Sounds like a pretty crappy idea to me.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Nov 29, 2010 10:03 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Go back to being a hysterical being behind a deadline author.
You make too much sense as a Kings fan. Dammit.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yep, back to edits!!!!!
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Nov 29, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Good Luck (with Chris Webber voice).....
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The only benefit I can see
Is that you get a better qualified person to teach these young players than wasting two-thirds of a season’s worth of development.
However, that’s predicated on the “right” coach being available. Highly unlikely, which is why Westphal should probably stay for the remainder of the season.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Yep
My thought exactly. If we really could get a quality head coach to come on midstream, I would lean toward it. But if all we are doing is promoting Ellie, he is already part of the staff. So I don’t see that we are really adding anything.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Nov 29, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
IF you think the Kings are the only team that isn't meeting expectations...
….please meet the Philadelphia 76ers.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If PW has lost the team, or especially key players or locker room leaders, then he has to go immediately. Keeping someone we know is going to lose his job is a waste of the rest if the season, and of valuable games in our young players careers. We don’t want to retard the progress of our youth because it’s inconvenient to have an interim coach.
by MichaelMack on Nov 29, 2010 10:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think PW has lost the locker room. This is not a veteran team. These guys are frustrated by the losing and should be.
But that doesn’t mean PW has really lost the team. Nothing I’ve seen suggests that. James, Tom, Akis, Zach Harper or Jason Jones can chime in at any moment and tell me specifically why I’m wrong.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm with you 100%.
Firing Westphal sends a positive message to the team and the fans.
I see no progress. If ownership sees this as well then it is irresponsible to stick with Westphal if there are any decent options willing to step up.
I don't think firing Westphal sends a bad message.
I would think that it would tell them they ARE trying to change for the better.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 29, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
All depends who you replace him with and . . .
that the players feel that he is not a good coach.
Both are big assumptions. If you fire a coach the players still believe in, you are telling them that you have essentially written off the team as bad. If you replace him with a coach who is worse, you just show the players that you are not very smart.
Just like trading a player, you may be trying to get better. But if it backfires, all it shows is that you don’t know talent. Do you think the players who played under Rick were glad we didn’t bring him back, because they knew we were trying to get better?
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
My own 2 cents
Not sure if the players like or dislike PW as a person or whatever but I doubt they really “believe in” him much.
I doubt there really is much risk with another coach. At the same time though, I honestly don’t see a ton of upside in it either.
Embrace the suck.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
What risk can there be I wonder if PW is replaced?
The risk of winning 15 games instead of 20? The way I see it is if you keep PW and keep loosing a lot of fans will become even more frustrated and more disinterested. I would want to see Elie coach and maybe bring in a few quality assistants.
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
Not saying there is much risk with Elie but keep in mind
you will likely see more losing and still have a situation where a coach knows he is fired if he does not turn it around quick so you are going to see more random rotations where players (players you might like and think of as building blocks) will get DNPs and be in and out of the rotation. All I am saying is I hope your expectations aren’t too high with PW gone. He ain’t the only thing between this team and wins.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 30, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Too early to fire Westphal.
I figure he’ll be fired at the end of the year if this keeps up. It appears Westphal is losing the players and fans, but if he had a decent rotation, then the Kings would’ve won two or three more games. The main problem is the players don’t mesh. It’s not rebounding anymore. Westphal is responsible for the rotation mess, but one should try to get the right players first. If the Kings need a better PG, then offering JT or someone else is at least heading in the right direction.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
I still like an idea i heard last week..Take Singletary (49ers Coach) and Switch him with Westphal..It really can’t get worse for either team…
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Nov 29, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
LOL @ this
I’m rec’ing this for pure comedic reasons WW. Well done.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thanks, but not my idea, but thought it was funny as hell..Smashmouth Basketball, and a 53 man rotation for the 49ers..Hell why not Singletary plays enough of the rookies anyways
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Not rec'd for originality.
Rec’d for humorous timing. Maybe I didn’t make that clear the first time. My bad.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Is the "RIGHT" coach available?
What is right by the fans perspective and what is right by the Maloof’s tight wallets are two different things.
As much as I dislike PW and the “Poo Flinging to see what sticks” method of line up changes… I am not sure the Maloof’s would want to spend the money any way for a BETTER coach. (is there even one available right now?) They picked the cheapest guy on the market that no one else was really chasing. Then they extend his contract after proving next to nothing. They had the match that started the fire with Rick… and the downward coaching spiral is all on them since then.
What the fans want is not what the Maloof’s want… then again is it ever with any team?.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
The Maloof's didn't pick the cheapest guy on the market.
They took the coach who was willing to take the salary they offered. There’s a difference. It’s minor, and pointless in the grand scheme of things, but it is worth noting nonetheless.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And the group of available coaches weren't worth overpaying for IMO
If they’d offered a shitload more money and gotten Kurt Rambis, does anyone really believe we would be in better shape right now?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 29, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Might be worse Otis.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Maybe better?
There. Now we’ve covered all the bases.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 29, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Isn't this what happens
when the average Kings player tenure is less than 3 years?
You guys wanted it blown up.
This is it.
by KingsFan on Nov 29, 2010 10:47 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd for pure & brutal honesty.
Fans want a rebuilding and hate the process of rebuilding. The allure is not always what it’s cracked up to be.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
among all the banter the truth slips out
This should be on the home page side pocket in place of the Darkometer.
Fans want a rebuilding and hate the process of rebuilding. The allure is not always what it’s cracked up to be.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 29, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
And yet even in moments when you highlight a salient point...
…I manage to screw it up with slightly off grammar. Go figure, and irony is a bitch. Dammit.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fire Westphal
There is no system in place and the substitutions are not only hurting cohesion, but actually costing the team wins. Let Ellie take over and reassess at the end of the season. Ellie won’t be worse than this travesty. The team is getting worse and they have good young talent.
Some historical things I'd like to point out now that I've thought of them.
With Dick Motta, you moved out a more veteran team with Danny Ainge and Rodney McCray. That hasn’t happened with the Kings (Kevin Martin jokes aside), and it’s quite possible that the cap space is far more valuable than Kevin Martin and Carl Landry combined.
Dick Motta wanted a young team and that’s the way Jerry Reynolds and Gregg Lukenbill went. This is part of Geoff Petrie’s idea, and it just hasn’t worked out as quickly as we were hoping. There are so many differences between the 100 games with Dick Motta and Paul Westphal I’m not sure comparing the two has any other value other than teaching the young fans how god-awful the Kings were when Dick Motta was the head coach.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also....
…I cracked up so hard the first time I read in Reynolds Remembers when Motta is waiving around his championship ring (with the 78 Bullets) to make his team listen to him. Then Danny Ainge speaks up and says the team should listen to him because he got 2 of those (84 & 86 Celtics).
I don’t think Paul Westphal is that stupid to waive around his 74 Celtics championship ring to the players other than show them if they were interested. 1974 was so long ago, and I’ll bet only a minute fraction of NBA players outside Boston even know that Tommy Heinsohn was actually a NBA head coach.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So wait, what happens if Westphal actually touches Motta's Dark Mark?
Oh, $h*t…

RUN!!!
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 29, 2010 11:41 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd not because I agree with the point....
….(well maybe) but because the picture is awesome.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Once
Erik Spoelstra is fired, I say we hire him and the Heat can take Westphal….. Yes.
by KingsSince1990 on Nov 29, 2010 12:05 PM PST reply actions
I think that rumor was spread by Riley
he’s waiting in the wings to take over. His favorite MO.
Dunking Dutchman
Westphal is already finished
Westphal’s problem is that he is so clearly dumb. He does not learn from his mistakes and he hasn’t a clue about the team’s chemistry. The team is dispirited and they have no faith in him.
His last post game interview was painful to watch. He blames his players for his failure. He is already done. You get what you pay for.
glenn bell
how about
you back up your negative statements with some observations, stats or facts? this rhetoric is old already and I dont really want to hear people parroting the same damn thing all day
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Nov 29, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, all the Negative Nancies smell blood in the water, and it's like the GD Sacbee.com Comments over here.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 29, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe some of the Sacbee commenters have confused StR as a nicer version of the Sacbee comment section.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think that an important point about player re-signings/signings needs to be made
If the players dont have faith in Westphal then it going to be even more difficult for the franchise to get players to either sign back on or free agents to sign with the Kings…thats not a position we want to be in especially considering our relatively low attractiveness in the market already…but the biggest problem I see with replacing Westphal right now is that honestly there doesnt seem to be much of an alternative, even more so since the Maloofs dont really want to pay top dollar for a head coah
The flip side
Westphal is also 56th all-time in NBA coaching wins and 20th in win percentage among coaches who have coached at least 500 games.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
how many coaches have coached 500 games though?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Did a sort on that link...looks like 71
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Ding Ding
Give that man a prize.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
How many coaches take over 50+ win teams, let alone twice.
Don’t most coaches get their jobs because the guy that they replace got fired for having a losing season. Westphal lucked into the Phoenix job because Cotton retired, and he got the Seattle job because Carl fought with the FO, and wanted out.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Paul Westphal's rotations are horrible.
Warrior fan and fantasy NBA owner who lives in Sacto here. Paul Westphal is a horrible fantasy coach. I think he is because of his weird starting lineup and always trying to “experiment” with the roster. Is he an NBA coach or mad scientist? The Kings have some good, young players to develop if Westphal would only play them. For example, Beno Udrih needs minutes and should be starting. Beno proved himself last year. He should be starting with Tyreke. Or I had Samuel Dalembert on my fantasy roster, but he was inconsistent, so I ended up dropping him. I’d pick up Francisco Garcia if he only get regular minutes. He should be playing about 28 mpg as starter or sixth man. At SF, I rather see Omri Casspi or Carl Landry, and would like with Donte Greene if he doesn’t get yanked after two minutes. At PF, you got Carl Landry, but now he’s going to the bench. How can a team even jell if the players keep changing and they’re not given enough minutes. I was going to the game last Saturday, but after I heard about Carl Landry, I said why bother?
"Go ahead. Make my day."

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