Checking In on Tyreke Evans' New Jumper
It's early, with Tyreke Evans having played just five games this season. But so much of what the Kings do this season depends on Evans' ability to draw defends out of the paint so that he, Carl Landry and DeMarcus Cousins can attack the rim. As such, we ought to keep track of how Reke's new jumper is treating him.
As usual with shot location data, all numbers are from Hoopdata.com.
Within 10 feet of the rim, Evans is currently 31 of 57, or .543. Last season, he was 402 of 737, or .545. So Evans is on track there.
On mid- to long-twos, Evans is currently 9 of 24, or .375. Last season, he was 95 of 287, or .331. So we have some improvement there.
On threes, he's 4 of 10. Last year, he was 36 of 141 (.255). We'll see if the improvement holds, though it's worth noting that he certainly hasn't increased his long-ball frequency -- probably a good thing given his skill off the dribble and around the rim.
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I'm happy he worked so hard on his jumper but has been smart enough to know that he doesn't have to rely on it every time
I like the idea of him using the long ball as a sort of secret weapon. If his man sags off he nails the shot. If his man plays tight he drives by him to the rim.
I’m also happy that I have something to read in the early evening time since you apparently don’t believe in sleeping, Ziller.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Computers don't sleep, they merely have a standby mode.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
So is that TZ's excuse too?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Zillertect?

"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
by vfettke on Nov 9, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 10 recs
I hate his jumper.
It might be slightly more effective than last year but it is U.G.L.Y., falling backwards and kicking out a leg. Hideous.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 9, 2010 6:34 AM PST reply actions
I like that, it's stylish.
All that matters anyway is making it.
If he manages to raise his 3fg% around 35% it will be a very good improvement. No player I remember has made huge leaps in distant shooting in one year.
It isn't always that bad though
He does shoot with his feet set. Seems like that is when he hits which is no surprise.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I don't mind when he's set and square to the basket.
But that’s so rare, because he always has the ball in his hands, trying to create, so he doesn’t get set for his shots.
Not to say that he can’t get his body square and his feet set when he pulls up for the jumper, because other players do. Like Beno. And Rudy Gay. But Tyreke doesn’t.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 9, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
Observations
When Tyreke pulls up, it usually does not make me cringe in terror. That’s a good thing. Now I cringe only when he’s trying to shoot off-balance.
As Aykis has pointed out previously, it aggravates me when has passes up a three to drive in and take a long two.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
I can't help it
I admit to still cringing when I see him gather for that jumper. There it is, it’s out there now, I’m a cringer.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 9, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Okay, all you closet cringers. It's time to come out. and admit who you are
“My name is SaveBeast, and I am a cringer.”

"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
I hate to point out a typo because LPA might beat you because of it
but you spelled your name wrong
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
by vfettke on Nov 9, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
no worries
She’s my editor so she’s used to my typos. :)
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Nov 10, 2010 6:43 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
True.
I saw it, but since it didn’t really affect the way the story reads, I decided to just make a note and find it during line edits.
But seriously, your own screenname?
(And I can’t beat him. He’s out of town. Again.)
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 10, 2010 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know
SavageBeat has a kind of cool . . . beat?
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
Rebuild the Jumper?
This is something he will have to continue to improve. He may even be best suited rebuilding it.
I watched Steph Curry play last night. Our guy is better, but Curry’s jumper gorgeous and incredibly effective. It will keep the Warriors in games this year. His ability to pull-up and hit shots from all over is helping the Warriors at clutch moments down the stretch. Now, of course this is apples and oranges here. They are different players with different strengths, and i’m 100% behind our guy. But, at some point, Tyreke is going to need to add (and hone) the quick-release pull up jumper. It is incredibly useful down the stretch in close games and what makes good guards great. Jordan largely became a jump-shooter. Kobe is a jump shooter.
What I mean about rebuilding it is that I think it develops much too slowly. I agree with LPA. Currently, Tyreke’s shot is UGLY. I don’t like the fade away one bit… reminds me of Lebron. I have doubts that, as currently constructed, his jumper will ever become elite.
Now there’s also the possibility that he may be the type of player that truly never needs an elite jumper, a la Iverson. Its possible that he will always be able to get to the basket, given that it’s not that he necessarily plays above the rim, which would not age well. Who knows? But my guess is that he will need a more fundamentally built jumper to become elite.
At this point of a career, all a player can do is tweak his shot
I don’t think you can fundamentally change the mechanics of a person’s shot without having a significant impact on their decision making skills. Sure, if you change it slowly over a period of years and work hard to make it second nature, it may be possible. Realistically, I’d rather Tyreke be comfortable and consistent with his shot—I think he’s dangerous enough driving the ball to have people back off far enough for him to release his shot in time.
I agree with you that Evans needs a better jumper, but I do disagree with you that he needs an “elite” jumper. Again, I think defenders will respect him enough to back off so that he does have that space—he just needs to be able to make it (no matter how ugly or “unpure” his shot may seem).
Evans isn’t the lightning-quick, take-it-to-hole guard that Iverson or Wall is. He uses a combination of strength, agility, and general ballin’ skillz to get to the hoop. We all know he’s not as athletic as Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook. Guards who rely on athleticism will eventually turn to a post game or an outside game towards the latter part of their careers. Jordan did it, Kobe’s doing it, and I’m sure Evans will do it.
This is not to say that NOT having a great mid-to-three-point range shot won’t help Evans…I’m just saying that he has time to develop it because of his ability to score around the rim.
Dwayne Wade is a career 29% 3 point shooter
A jumper doesn’t need to be elite – or pretty. It just has to go in. If he can do 35% on 3’s soon and get to around 43% from mid-range . . . .STAR.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 9, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
I watched Curry play last night too
He’s not as dynamic as Evans, but he’s really, really solid as far as his total game. He’s a lot closer to realizing his potential than our guy right now.
I think the thing about Reke’s jumper right now is that his form looks a lot better right now, but he’s not comfortable using it in the game with a defender right in his face. It shows when he fades away, which takes away the use of the legs in the shot, changes the trajectory of the shot, and becomes all arm. Practicing with someone challenging his shot will probably come in the summer; right now he just needs to focus on continuing to practice shooting with the same form.
He has to continue to practice the jab step and the step back with one or two dribbles; right now, he takes too long to set up his jump shot, and doesn’t use one or two crisp moves to do so since it’s not a go to weapon yet. I would also like to see him add a crossover before his jumpshot, the way Beno does it, so that he can create enough space for a set shot, and then he wouldn’t have to fade away.
Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."
Hmmm.....how about now?
Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."
Tyreke is outperforming Curry in just about every statistical category that matters
so – huh? Curry looks better doing it?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 9, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Clothes make the man dontcha know?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What about TS%???
/ducks
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
TS% is life and life is TS%.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
WE ARE ALL TS%
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
No I'm not.
I’m just eFG%.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 9, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
But I really shine in USG% to TOV%. So suck on it bitches!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Did you say eFG%??
/faps
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I did. But I don't get the "faps" reference.
< -—- Not Smart.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You're better off not knowing
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I don't watch Harry Potter or Twilight either.
Maybe it’s in that category where I’m glad I don’t know anything about it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It has more to do with Hairy Palmer than Harry Potter
That might have been too many clues.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Nov 9, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It is too many clues. I won't hold it against you because of your avatar.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
LOL Hair PALMER!
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Nov 9, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Don't lump Harry Potter in with Twilight!
Twilight is the absolute worst piece of shit I’ve ever read in my life. It is painfully bad. And Harry Potter is pretty much awesome.
"That was the most offensive thing I have seen in 20 years of teaching and that includes an elementary school production of "Hair.""
Absolutely
no comparison
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 9, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Hence the "or".
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They're still mentioned in the same sentence
And they really, really shouldn’t be. They really have nothing in common other than being written by women and being multi-book series. One is amazing and will stand the test of time. The other consists of what are quite possibly the worst books ever written.
"That was the most offensive thing I have seen in 20 years of teaching and that includes an elementary school production of "Hair.""
by Christina_J on Nov 10, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Even Harry Potter
Was not as well-written as most people believe.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the series. We read them out loud as a family. But she’s terrible at killing off characters. The only death she did well was Dobby’s. And the whole mirror thing in book five was poorly done.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 10, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Just because you think they are in different classes doesn't mean I'm obligated to see it differently.
As far as I’m concerned, how well written one or the other is is irrelevent.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's the funniest thing you've said in a while!
Reke’d.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 9, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Everything I say is funny. You just don't always laugh at it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not true
I’m always laughing at you.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 9, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
That's different.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Eh.
Potato, po-tah-to.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 10, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Don't you mean potato-to-mah-to?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I love me some Tyreke, but to be fair...
Through the first two weeks of this season, Evans has the better scoring and rebounding average, while Curry has more assists and a better assist/turnover ratio. They have matched each other in steals. And yes, Curry has the higher true shooting percentage.
Here’s one that’s easy – at this point in their careers, both of these guys are better than Hasheem Thabeet and James Harden, both of whom were drafted before them.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 9, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Assists are such crap.
I prefer USG% to TOV%. But USG leaves out assists in the calculation. Still, I find it’s better than Ast/TO ratio.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I may regret asking this
But shouldn’t assists have inherent value? They are a flawed stat, but they are a consistently flawed stat. Each team plays the same number of home games and away games, so the bias evens out. Can we accept that they are assigned inconsistently, but they are consistently inconsistent?
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
Yes it SHOULD have inherent value. What real value does something with an inconsistent value really have?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But
What I’m saying is that it is inconsistent in the same ways for everyone, meaning it is probably actually consistent as long as we don’t look at individual games.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
Nope, not really. I guess you could say that an assist where a player gets a layup is more valuable.....
….but even then that has to come with a context. Was the basket wide open in a running game? Or was it in the halfcourt.
Then you have your standard “Stockton to Malone” assist where Stockton passes to Malone off the pick n roll for a 17 footer that Malone nearly never missed later in his career.
This is what I ultimately think about assists I guess. It’s a necessary evil but it doesn’t represent anything really valuable. Anything that includes assists in it’s calculation ignores that the human element is very much at play with assists. Very few other stats or situations has that scenario in basketball. But assists are very common in this area. As such, I don’t take any real stock in guys who rack up assists. There are great players who have had a lot of assists over their career, but I probably would prefer the way they ref’d passes in the 60’s to the way they do now. (Oscar Robertson complained about this in his autobiography.)
However, the problem is that it’s inconsistent for everyone from player to player and from scoring table to scoring table.
Assists attach a real value to players in franchise and fans eyes. Is Magic Johnson in the Hall of Fame on 5000 pure assists? There is no desire or interest in changing something when casual fans accept assists as being an important to the game of basketball.
At this point I’d really settle for fans to understand that assists aren’t the same thing from player to player and from scoring table to scoring table.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wait
I could have totally zinged you better than that. One word. Rondo :)
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I don't like Rondo. No zing required on that one.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Absolutely Steve Nash sucks.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
All stats are flawed in some ways
The fact the Evans outscores Curry can be attributed to the fact that he is the #1 scoring option for the Kings, while Curry is the #2 option (at least prior to Monta’s injury). So scoring is a flawed stat.
Guy who live to rebound and do nothing else (Reggie Evans, Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley) are always going to rebound at a higher rate than those players that are also counted on to score the basketball and therefore are not always in rebounding position. So rebounding is a flawed stat.
Steals are sometimes predicated on taking a risk, which means that sometimes you give up your defensive positioning when going for a steal. The bigger gamblers may get more steals but also may get caught out of position more often. So steals is a flawed stat.
No stat is perfect. But as you have pointed out before, G, they all kind of add up to help tell a story. They are not the rule, but they are a very good guide…unless the particular stat doesn’t help you prove your specific point at the time, in which case that particular stat is a crock of sh*t (note sarcasm).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 9, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The difference is your noting something very different.
I’m talking simply about how the assist is recorded. I’m not talking about the difference in between a guy like Tim Duncan and Reggie Evans.
That to me is apples and oranges. A semantic debate perhaps, but an important distinction IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If I may...
Scoring is not a flawed stat. Rebounding is not a flawed stat. How could the scoring and rebounding data be flawed? It is not subject to any discretion by the scorekeeper, unless on a tip shot when two players tip simultaneously or the opponent tips in a basket and scorekeeper has to decide which player gets credit. Anomalies aside, the data is flawless.
However, and this speaks to your point, the conclusions one could infer from scoring or rebounding stats could be flawed, such as Player A is a superior scorer than Player B because he has a higher per game average, although Player A is a first option on a 15 win team while Player B is a 3rd option on a 50 win team.
I agree with PG on the distinction here.
Handing out assists is subject to discretionary bias, but certainly it has value. If you watch a game without a reference to the box score, and then afterwards look at the box score with regard to passing performance, namely assist and TOs, are the numbers likely going to confirm what you saw with your two eyes? Of course they are. (I didn’t have to look at the box score last game to know Sammy D and DMC were giving away possessions: 9 total when all was said, fumbled, and undone). The best passers will pile up the best assist to TO numbers, undeniably. All players are subject to the same scorekeeping bias, for better or worse.
BTW, blocks and steals can be more discretionary than assists. I see tip shots that should go down as blocks but don’t. And I see players slapping balls loose and not getting credited with steals.
Here is where PG argument falls flat: A player capable of drawing attention of the defense, through threat of score or move, and timing pass and placement to lead to score, and playing unselfishly regardless of how pedestrian the pass may look deserves credit. It is valued skill to be in the right place at the right time, and make the right play at the right time.
Now if you want to say Player A unfairly got an assist on a pass in which Player B took two dribbles and double pump fake, fine, but Player A also probably made a sweet pass that led to another pass that led to an assist. 1 credited non assist is offset by 1 non-credited assist. See how beautifully it all works out? One generous and/or strict scorekeeper is offset by ten competent ones who consistently apply the formal interpretation of the rules, more or less. Another example of the universe in perfect harmony. ;)
I predict JT puts up 7/5 this year. - Aug 2010. [Current: 6.0 PPG 4 RPG]
Statisticians can sometimes falsify rebounding data
For example if JT tips the ball to Tyreke, who gets the rebound? JT or Tyreke? I’d give it to JT, but sometimes that rebound would go to JT.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
A bigger point I was trying to make about assists:
Passing is valuable but assists do not necessarily quantify that value.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well said, all stats have flaws or issues with data.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Never said anything about Tyreke outperforming Curry or vice versa
So let me rephrase it: Curry looks closer to a finished product compared to Tyreke. Can we all agree that Tyreke can still improve upon his jumper, playmaking, and defense? Whereas looking at Curry, he was playing his man well on defense one on one, gets into a more aggressive defensive stance. The effort seems to be there on both ends. But I wasn’t comparing them in the way you mentioned; I compared them based upon which player is closer to meeting their full potential, and Curry looks that way.
With that said, Tyreke’s potential as a complete player is way higher than Curry’s, based upon his athleticism and physical profile alone; that’s why I said Curry isn’t as dynamic. Curry’s potential as a defender maxes out at very good at best, while Tyreke’s potential as a defender can max out to an elite one.
Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."
I know what you're saying
Curry is two years older, his game is more polished and he’s probably nearing his potential.
Spiiin
(Hey, we all remember that Curry is the guy I wanted us to draft – right?)
Seriously, all those things may be true.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 9, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Curry's potential as a defender is automatically lowered due to the fact that he plays for the Warriors
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
At 10 attempts in 6 games it's too small a sample
but the pencils out to around 140 attempts in a season so his 3 point shot attempts are pretty much at the pace he took them last season.
What it looks like is that Tyreke is playing HIS game, and he hasn’t altered that too much yet.
Probably a good thing.

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