Bobcats looking for Change
Amick on what's on the table for Jordan...and what it looks like the Bobcats are looking for is screaming Dalembert/Landry package...
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Bobcats are looking for is screaming Dalembert/Landry package
There is essentially NOTHING on that team worth touching with a ten foot pole… Unless they want to go back in time a decade and trade us Jordan
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 23, 2010 12:27 PM PST reply actions
wouldn't mind having Crash back, but not sure who to give up for him
Then again, I don’t know anything about his contract status or anything like that. I’ve just always had a soft spot for him, and think this team could use some more heart and hustle, and he has lots of both.
I have a feeling what they would want for him and what the Kings would have to give up wouldn't be worth it
but, like you said. I’m not sure how his contract looks and too lazy to google
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 23, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
looks like he signed a big deal in 2007
6 years $57mil, with the 6th year being a player option. Probably too expensive, and you’re right, the Bobcats would probably want more than we’re willing to give up.
yeah
as much as I like Wallace. Given his injury history and how his hustle translates to success…I dont know if that would be worth the cost.
Your friendly neighborhood Purple Drank retailer.
it's only two more years isn't it?
Just theoretically speaking, if they offered Wallace straight up for Dalembert in an all out cash dump, would his paycheck simply be too much?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Here is the salaries for Charlotte.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
technically speaking
Wallace wouldn’t be a bad piece and Tyrus is my favorite type of idiot. Granted no clue if it would really be worth whatever they want but then again I tend to think of MJ as the type of guy you can fleece.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 23, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'd have some interest in Tyrus Thomas or Augustin
Not sure what it would take to get either/both of them.
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Well, that's better than when the Jackson talks were going on last week.
Still not sure if it’s worth the effort
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 23, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure about Augustin, but I think that he will become better than Beno
Thomas is now being well paid, but he has been extremely efficient – 50% field, 82% line, almost 6 boards and a block and a half in about 20 minutes a night. An enthusiastic defender, too. I think that he would be a nice future piece with Cousins and hopefully Whiteside up front.
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So what would you give up to aquire them?
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 23, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Probably anything
short of Tyreke/Cousins/Omri/Whiteside/next year’s 1st round pick. That doesn’t leave much, unless Charlotte wanted to salary dump Thomas and would take someone like Landry or JT in return.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Tyrus Thomas is an interesting question.
But there are questions about his being a mental midget. Are they accurate? If they are, does it matter?
All questions Petrie would have to think about long & hard.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would rather have the Kings keep JT
for the part above the shoulders alone
by betweentheeyes on Dec 23, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
If we get a new PG, I'd like it to be an upgrade from Beno
I know Augustin in young, and he seems to have a similar ability to score, how is his perimeter defense? Statistically he doesn’t seem that impressive on that end, but I haven’t seen him play enough to make a judgement on his ability. It would be nice to have someone who can knock down 40% of their 3 pointers though.
Coming out of college DJ was known for his defense
not super athletic but quick. not much bigger than Pooh, but he’s putting up 12pt/7 rebs is 34 minutes, but has an extremely low 1.7 to’s per game and a A/TO ratio of over 3.
He’s not going to be the scorer that a Aaron Brooks would be, but hopefully that will be Tyreke’s role in the backcourt. Other than a more veteran PG like Billups or a bigger rookie like Holiday, I think DJ could fill the void that we all wanted Rubio to fill. And, he shoots 35% from 3, and did I mention that he plays defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Tyrus Thomas is not a difference maker
and he’s not better than what we are putting on the floor now, so it sounds like a trade just to do a trade.
Wallace and Augustin are a different matter. They can both help us at a position of need and are better than what we are putting on the floor right now. Acquiring Augustin also allows us to play Tyreke at the the 2.
"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."
Actually,
from a production standpoint, Thomas is better than what we have on the floor. Understanding that PER isn’t perfect, the fact remains that he is currently posting a 21.8, while the best Kings player comes in at 16.3 (Udrih), and the best Kings big comes in at 14.3 (Landry). He blocks better than 2.6 shots per 36, and he’s shooting over 50% from the floor. Rebounds at a worse rate than all of the current guys except Landry
I agree that his presence would not singularly turn this franchise around, and I think that the argument could be made that the $33 million that he’ll make over the next four years (after this year) is a little pricey. But in my opinion, he is better than what Dalembert, JT and Landry have shown this year (I won’t draw the comparison to Cousins or Whiteside due to their inexperience). I think that he could potentially be a nice piece.
Interesting also to note that while I like Augustin, his numbers and productivity are really sub-Beno. The difference between the two is that Augustin is probably nowhere near his peak.
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If Thomas is so good
Why is he only playing 20 minutes a game?
Augustin is logging more than 30 minutes a game and is in the top quarter of the league’s scorers. And he’s pretty young. And he’s a true point guard. Beno is not.
"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."
by NewEraKings on Dec 25, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know
My guess is that there are a lot of unanswered questions when you are talking about a squad that made the playoffs last year, is currently foundering in 12 hole in their conference, just fired their head coach, and is pondering the prospect of blowing up their roster.
Augustin is actually scoring .8 less than Udrih per game, and his 12.6 average ranks him in the top 35% – 77th overall. Did you mean something else?
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Udrih must have crept up the list a bit
I’m guessing that 34-point outing didn’t hurt his average.
The list I am working from is about a week old and is the top 100 scorers minus the guys who hadn’t played at least 20 games ranked by points per shot. Augustin was 60th on the list and 12th among 21 point guards behind Paul, Nash, Billups, D Williams, D Harris, Westbrook, Curry, Stuckey, Felton, Parker and Andre Miller and ahead of Collison, Conley, Nelson, Rose, Gibson, Jennings, Holliday, Arenas and Tyreke.
"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."
He has dropped,
at least by ESPN’s current list of qualified leaders. After averaging 12.5 in November, he has dropped to 11.5 in December. I would have to think that the coaching fallout and what preceded it has had to have had a negative impact on the team, and as a point guard he is probably feeling it as much as anybody. Then again, I suppose the same thing could be said about Udrih. But as we agree, Augustin certainly has more untapped potential than Udrih.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Untapped potential means so little to me when you have so many youngins in the same boat.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well, this is a good point
As there has been talk that what this team needs is a veteran presence, bringing in a young point guard like Augustin would certainly be counter of that. On the other hand, it’s not like any of the current Kings guards are providing that leadership. I do think that Augustin has the potential to be a nice backcourt fit with ’Reke, though.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'll be honest with you.
If the Kings went out and got Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Chauncey Billups, I’d be giddy. Maybe it isn’t sexy, and Hamilton’s contract isn’t wonderful either, but it’s a move that would help the team now. As long as the Kings shed a player like Garcia in the process, the Kings would be okay contract wise too.
I know that’s jumping the gun, but I wouldn’t mind seeing some vets for the next several years. There’s only so many young players you can have a roster before it becomes way too many.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed, at least regarding the explosion of youth
But we spent the past few years getting out of all of these bad contracts with the specific idea of rebuilding.
Given that Prince has been vocal in his displeasure of his current role, I’m not sure that he is the “leader” that we are looking for. And I wouldn’t pay out extra for Hamilton’s leadership. And I would not be excited to watch the Detroit Pistons of yesteryear play for the Kings. I think that Billups has the potential to be the kind of short term leader that the Kings could use, but I don’t know that a half season of him really accomplishes much, and I don’t see him staying past that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'd accept just Prince and Billups too.
Either way, it’s just a matter of opinion at this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The choice between a vet PG and a young PG who is perferming is tough
Since we have no PG to tuitor, a vet would be a stop gap until we find a young protege possibly in next years draft.
But, I’m sure we can all agree on 3 or 4 young PG’s that we would be willing to live with while they develop. Although the best of both worlds might to add a vet and a young PG with potential.
Personally, if I had to make a choice between Billups and Augustine, I’d gamble on DJ.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
There is also the usual arguement
Why improve now?
This discussion began two seasons ago: If you are going to be bad, why not be very bad?
The past two lotteries have given the Kings excellent odds of winning the lottery’s top pick and only produced 4th and 5th picks. Yet the odds have not changed. The reward for performing poorly during the regular season is an increased chance of a top 3 pick. To what end would decreasing those odds be appropriate?
This will be a much repeated sentiment for the next five months, might as well let it start now.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 25, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
The dangers of performing poorly is what we're seeing now
Decension, anger, frustration, and lack of progress in the development of our young talent. We always talk about vets not wanting to come to Sac. It won’t be long before rookies and role players feel the same way if they don’t already.
We already have what should have been a top 3 pick from last year, and how’s that going?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
too soon to tell
In answering the last question.
In general, the Kings this season are a disappointment even with the addition of veterans. The key pieces are still very young. Adding more talent is still the answer – whether from FA, trades or the draft. As you noted above, FA and vets do not share our appreciation of the beautiful Northern California Great Valley region.
Drafting high is still the most likely way to increase the taelnt pool. It may be luck of the draw but increasing the odds makes more sense than 5 more wins to me. In other words, it sucks to suck, but suck they do. The best method of unsucking is to suck more now to suck less later.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 26, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
I think a PG needs to be judged by more than ppg.
I like to look at Assist Rate, which compares a players assists to his made FG’s, FT’s and Turnovers. Kidd, Paul and Nash are in the top 4 in this catagory. DJ is usually in the top 10 of all guards who play at least 15 mpg in 20+ games. Beno is at 37 on that list.
Augustine also has the 4th best Ast/TO ratio at 3.65 and Beno is is 14th at 2.78. The difference in their AR numbers is that DJ create 50% more assists while turning over the ball much less.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 25, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Who's catching the ball from Beno though?
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Dec 25, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
As with all stats, they don't tell the whole story, true
but just as important as who catches his passes is when and where they catch them. Is Beno a true playmaker, who forces team to double him when he penetrates. Allowing him to find the player who’s man left to double?
I’ve made the point before that just getting assists isn’t the same as getting easy shots or easy baskets for your teammates. Both teams have similar Asst rates from 3pt range but Cha has a 14% higher assist rate at the rim. And, a 9% higher assist rate inside 10 ft. The KIngs have a 15% higher assist rate on long 2’s and a 9% higher assist rate on shots form 10-15 ft.
That’s the difference between getting easy assist at the basket, and passing out to players who end up shooting low percentage shoots. That’s why I have never been impressed with Beno or Tyreke’s assist numbers. The number come from low percentage 2’s and 3’s, and usually as an after thought when they can’t get the shot they want and have to kick it out.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
creation v. desperation
I have thoughts of Tim Tebow at Gainesville – If I can’t run it, I guess I will have to throw it. His position was still quarterback.
Of course, that was the original knock on drafting Tyreke. The Rubio arguments were chock full of passing first v. slash first. Many felt strongly that developing Evans into a PG to run the team was a gamble. Many believed similiarly about Steph Curry, though he spent his senior year at Davidson demonstrating PG skills along with his scoring. (His slight frame was also a concern)
To this, I add, that Tyreke is not done developing. He would be starting his junior year in college. He has shown the ablity to find and create but has not improved on it. Yet.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 26, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Not sure how to respond
my comments did start out as a vote for Augustine over Beno, but I gues that I was the one who brought up Tyreke’s name. So, here’s my take.
Tyreke’s jump over Rubio, came after Evans dominated all the PG’s in the workouts. Which based on his size shouldn’t have been a real surprise. I think that there were probably several players with SG or SF size that would have dominated PG’s one on one.
His skill set wasn’t that of a PG, not great playmaking and almost no left hand. and, he didn’t have the jumper of a true SG. And, now in his 2nd season, those problems are still not resolved, so this has lead to the question as to what is his true best position.
And, until his development moves in one way or the other, it is foolish to not add true PG’s or SG’s to the lineup. And, since we already had Beno & Cisco under contract, I have been advocating adding a veteran PG or at least an established PG since last summer.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
yes yes
to adding more talent at any and every position. More talent will not stunt the growth of any player worth his salt, it will cause them to improve.
I also insist that Tyreke is a young player with a gifted skill set that should expand and improve. He has the tools and the desire. He won’t be Steve Nash, but can be an even bigger and better force in this league. It takes an investment in time however.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 26, 2010 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
but if that can happen
then something like Dalembert/Beno for Augustine/Wallace I would consider. However I am biased as Gerald has always been my favorite King. This kind of deal would open up the ability to stay involved as a 3rd team in larger deals where we can include players like Landry, Greene and/or Casspi.
Bringing back Wallace would give the fans a bit of buzz and may bring a highlight reel of dunks and blocks to a season that will otherwise be fairly bland.
Your friendly neighborhood Purple Drank retailer.
Really? Wallace was always your favorite King?
Don’t get me wrong I liked him but that’s kind of odd given who we had on the team, specifically at the same time as Gerald.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 23, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
My favorite underdog
I guess is more of a realistic description. Favorite all time King…no.
I would love to see some dunks from him in a Kings uni again though.
Your friendly neighborhood Purple Drank retailer.
Always had a soft spot for him
He had the misfortune of being a youngster on a good team, and never got the playing time he needed to develop here. I’m glad he got a chance to prove himself in Charlotte.
If they are trying to lose salary
They aren’t going to take Beno off our hands.
"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."
I wonder what making a deal with Jordan would be like?
My guess is he’s pretty inept, so you might be able to get over on him. But part of me thinks he’s like that guy in your fantasy football league that offers up Lee Evans so he can “take Chris Johnson off your hands”.
Apparently that change could include Baron Davis....
Jordan is considering a trade proposal that would send Augustin, DeSagana Diop(notes) and Matt Carroll(notes) to the Los Angeles Clippers for Davis, a league source told Yahoo! Sports.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
yikes!
Baron Davis? I spoke with my bud Don in LA and he would love to do that deal.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 23, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
I would too if i was a Clipper fan.
Davis has underperformed, and to get a point guard with a lot of potential like Augustin would be an absolute steal.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
by Surprise Team on Dec 24, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Also possibly sending Wallace to Portland....
League sources told FanHouse that the Bobcats and Portland have discussed a trade that would send beloved small forward Gerald Wallace to the Blazers with center DeSagana Diop and point guard D.J. Augustin in exchange for center Marcus Camby and point guard Andre Miller.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
I saw this too...
but I just don’t understand why Jordan makes this deal. How do an aging Miller and Camby help you when they each have years left on their deals.
The one player I'd really want is Tyrus Thomas
He’s the perfect PF next to Cousins. Defender who can score, but doesn’t need to score a lot.
by 8thInningWeirdness on Dec 23, 2010 1:29 PM PST reply actions
I'd be fine with acquiring someone from Charlotte, and I'd be equally okay with completely ignoring them and sticking with the guys we have.
As long as we don’t even breathe in Stephen Jackson’s direction.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Not sure Jordan wants 3/5ths of the starters from a team worst then his.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
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