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Kings' Starting Five Changes Despite Early Leads

Paul Westphal has again altered his starting line-up. The Sacramento Kings will feature their 11th starting five in the 28th game of the season, with Francisco Garcia replacing Donte Greene. Carl Landry and Samuel Dalembert replaced Darnell Jackson and DeMarcus Cousins for last Thursday's game against the Bucks when the latter, Cousins, stubbed his professionalism in last week's debacletastrophe against the Warriors. (Jackson and Dalembert together isn't really a suitable frontline, as Westphal obviously recognized.)

What's forgotten is that the starting five that featured Cousins, Jason Thompson (in all but the last three games), Greene, Beno Udrih and in all but one game Tyreke Evans was pretty wildly successful in first quarters throughout December.

Westphal pulled Cousins from the starting five as a disciplinary measure for taunting Reggie Williams. To that point, Cousins had started nine consecutive games, eight of them losses. Surely that'd be reason enough for a change ... had the Kings not typically dominated the first quarters of those games.

Star-divide

The following table shows Sacramento's scoring margin (Kings points' minus opponents' points) in the first quarter of those eight losses and in the rest of the game. Take a look. ("Vs" indicates the game was at ARCO Arena; "at" means the Kings played on the road.)

Opponent

1st Quarter

Rest of Game

vs Mavericks

+9

-11

at Clippers

+4

-11

vs Heat

+7

-28

at Rockets

+3

-16

at Hornets

+6

-9

at Thunder

+1

-16

vs Rockets

+5

-14

vs Warriors

-8

+0

In seven of those eight losses with Cousins in the starting five, the Kings had a lead at the end of the first quarter, with the weirdo Warriors game the only exception. (Cousins was pretty bad all over that game.) The Cousins-led Kings had a nine-point lead over the excellent Dallas Mavericks after a quarter on Dec. 4. The Kings outscored the Miami Heat by seven in the first quarter of that game. And so on. The starting line-up early in these games was certainly not the problem.

Cousins has been far less effective in his 13 games off the bench. In 14 games as a starter, Cousins shoots better, scores more, rebounds more and, despite suggestions playing against back-up bigs would help rein in DMC's foul rate and allow him to play more, the big man actually plays more when he starts. (That shouldn't be terribly surprising.) The team has played better in Cousins' starts, too: the Kings are 4-10 when Cousins starts and 1-12 when he comes off the bench. Sacramento's bad either way, but especially bad when Cousins isn't playing as much.

But it's clear that Westphal is not keen to re-insert Cousins, especially after another "issue" between the two at the end of the loss to the Bucks. Instead of giving Thompson his starting spot back, which would have paired J.T. with another non-featured scorer in Dalembert, Westphal is sticking with Landry and instead replacing Greene. Whether that will help the team's performance in the second, third and especially fourth quarters remains to be seen.

What is known is that during the latest rough stretch, the Kings have begun games just fine. How Sacramento starts the game has not defined the Kings' performance, and it's hard to see how tinkering who begins the first quarter will fix the glaring problems that pop up in the fourth.

All data via Basketball-Reference.com.

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Glad to see you adopting my methodology
The team has played better in Cousins’ starts, too: the Kings are 4-10 when Cousins starts and 1-12 when he comes off the bench.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."

by NewEraKings on Dec 27, 2010 9:28 AM PST reply actions  

?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Pretty insightful stuff here

Personally, I was unaware that it was possible to track wins and losses.

by lead_pipe on Dec 27, 2010 9:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Please look up the definition of methodology

There are some guys dumber than me, some guys worse looking, I take umbrage at the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Dec 27, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Interestingly...

When threads that use small sample sizes appear on the day of Kings games, they are 5-38. When they appear on days when the Kings do not play, they’re still 0-7, which is kind of strange, really.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 27, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Nothing a change in the starters won't fix
when the Kings do not play, they’re still 0-7, which is kind of strange, really

As for TZ and the double standard comment: I will only submit that you, Mr. Z have inadvertently stepped into a pile of NEK and now it is sticking to you. I have made this same mistake and learned that the best response is no response. You may follow this advice recognizing that I did it first because Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Or you may chose to ignore this advice which is still confirms that you are still following it, therefore bringing us back to Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.. You must recognize this. You must. I insist.

by betweentheeyes on Dec 27, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

hahahahhahahaahaha

(and I mean it)
I also think at least two sentances in this post paraphrases something I thought outloud just yesterday.
Thief.

"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII

by lietothegirls on Dec 27, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I think your point is valid

That those “random splits” are just another view behind the stats. Not a be-all, end-all, but useful to some degree nonetheless.

Your use of “dick,” “overly wanker-y,” etc. shows a double standard on your new ban hammer rules against personal attacks that is hardly surprising.

"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."

by NewEraKings on Dec 27, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Ah the martyr card

can’t say I am that surprised.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Nor I

"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."

by NewEraKings on Dec 27, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 27, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Did you used to play Magic sims?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't. I just googled "martyr card," and went for it.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 27, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Oooooooh! Pick me! Pick me!

I know the answer to this one!

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 27, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I hope this goes green in 30 mins.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Green'd

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Woohoooo!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I knew TZilly had his cat in his avatar for a reason; to remind us that true evil always lurks when a Ziller is around.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, this Tom Ziller guy is a troll.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 27, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I believe the proper anagram would be "I troll me"

which would explain why NEK caught him trolling on his own site.

by twasserm on Dec 27, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

That is better.

Me? I troll. I left out the Z, though.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 27, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm confused here

And in no way am I attempting to defend NEK (not because I don’t like him, just because I don’t know him), but I don’t understand the new Ban Hammer rules I guess. When I saw NEK’s first comment I thought "well he uses stats like that a lot so he’s just saying he’s glad to see Ziller use them too". Now, maybe there is a knife twist in his comment, but that is something that can’t be directly taken from the comment, that is something that is created by the reader. The actual post itself is pretty harmless on it’s own. Any hate found in that post is based completely on one’s pre-conceived opinion of the poster (whether right or wrong is neither here nor there, IMO).

When I ready Ziller’s response, which was well played I must say, I immediately thought "hey now, that crosses a lot of the lines I just read about in the Ban Hammer post". I understand it’s his site and he’s not going to ban himself, but I don’t think that should make him above the new enforcement of the rules.

Then I see Section’s explanation that basically says "well NEK started it, so he should be ready for any repercussions". Does that mean that we aren’t supposed to break the Ban Hammer rules, but if someone else does then they all go out the window in response to them? That seems to only encourage the flame wars that you are trying to prevent.

Again, I’m not taking either person’s side here. Personally I have no problem with either person’s comment. I’m just trying to make sure I understand the rules for the future. I also do not want anything to lend more credibility to the "good ole boy theory" that floats around here. This isn’t adding up to me so I’m just looking for clarification here, nothing more or less.

Kings fan in OKC

by rockrichmond2 on Dec 27, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If I may

I was wrong to respond in the way that I did.

NewEraKings: I’m sorry for calling you a wanker-y, self-falutin’ dick. I should not have done so, and I regret doing so.

by Tom Ziller on Dec 27, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Quite honestly....

….you weren’t imitating anyone. And, if anything, you’re just imitating someone who came up with those kind of splits long before you, NEK or any of us came around.

That’s just my general opinion. There isn’t much new under in the sun in the blogging world, but there is a lot to be said about how you execute something. It’s similar to the NBA in that regard ironically enough.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Legitimate question

NEK pointed the arrow at himself with his comment, and the fallout ensued. While NEK is not responsible for each of the comments that followed, he was responsible for “getting the party started.”

Within 72 hours of the “ban hammer” post, NEK tested the boundaries by tweaking the nose of another member. Had no one responded to his post, it still would have been wrong of him to make this potentially fire starting statement. Simply, he could have delivered his comment in a far less incendiary way.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 27, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks Section

Late Christmas present for me, I got a reply from Section and Ziller with one comment! I think that makes me a great champion.

Kings fan in OKC

by rockrichmond2 on Dec 27, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

is it against the Ban Hammer Rules to suggest that the Ban Hammer Rules are an overreaction and should be scuttled?

Because I have a…friend…who thinks STR is becoming too authoritarian and uptight.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Dec 27, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Have that friend drop me an email off line

I would be more than happy to discuss it with him/her/you.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 27, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

u got pwn'd

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Dec 27, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Seems to make sense...

Why not bolster the bench because it is less important than the starters! All of Westphal’s moves reek of desperation and the team plays like that have no rudder which I COMPLETELY put on the coach. I am not surprised he keep changing the starters, I wold be more surprised if he left them alone. His poor management of players and petty games with the lineup and with his treatment of Cousins has permanently soured me on him. I would rather have a drunken Elie lead the team.

by mayfieldcol on Dec 27, 2010 9:28 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

To change the 2nd and 4th quarters

you gotta change the 1st and 3rd quarters. Maybe by mixing up the starters, the bench will be more sustainable in the 2nd and 4th quarters. Something has to change, and if it’s not a trade, this is really the only other way.

by Smills9133 on Dec 27, 2010 9:28 AM PST reply actions  

Hopefully it can work in the fourth quarter

I’m convinced that the team’s defense works a lot better with Donte in the game… until Donte starts to get tired. If we can have Donte playing with energy in the fourth quarter, maybe we won’t melt down.

"DMC and Purple Jesus are gonna run shit very very soon" - "Gavin Maloof" commenting at probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/fear-demarcus-cousins-for-he-is-a-beast.php

by Biscuit on Dec 27, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

These are probably our best & most experienced players. A few of them you can argue aren’t completely better but certainly more experienced. These are the guys who should be finishing games anyway & this should give them a chance to gel from the start. Which should provide a better finish.

All that said will it work? Who knows? Also another line-up change is frustrating to say the least but I guess it can’t get any worse.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Dec 27, 2010 9:30 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

To be quickly followed by linup change Wednesday

There are some guys dumber than me, some guys worse looking, I take umbrage at the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Dec 27, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

It's more of a festival season of lineup changes really.

I believe it’s called “The NBA Regular Season Schedule”

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm confused about

putting Garcia in the starting line-up since PW seemed to have forgotten he was on the team for the most part. Not necessarily complaining about it, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind it.

Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!

by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2010 9:56 AM PST reply actions  

Ugh. At this point, he is what he is.

Dr. Cisco and Mr. Flaco.

"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds

by kingsfan300 on Dec 27, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I find this amusing.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe Westphal wants to improve how we finish games by playing what would normally be our starters later in the game?

Or maybe Westphal looked at the calendar and went “Oh shit, it’s been more than 3 days since I’ve made some kind of lineup change. Better remedy that before that lineup gets comfortable and develops a feel for each other.”

Go for it all. You're a great champion.

by Muff209 on Dec 27, 2010 9:56 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I figured it out Paul Westphal is an agent of Chaos

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 10:05 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

If PW really wants to punish DeMarcus...

He should splice together a lowlight film of all our gut-wrenching losses this year, and be forced to watch it on repeat.

by misterbrister on Dec 27, 2010 10:07 AM PST reply actions  

I'm about ready to go the way of cowboyron

And start wanting a new coach.

The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"

by lodisacfan on Dec 27, 2010 10:10 AM PST reply actions  

thanks lodisacfan

You have seen the light.it not to hard to figure out that the coach is awful.teabaggers like him though……

by cowboyron96@yahoo.com on Dec 27, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

With all due respect...

…I prefer to not teabag any man.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

What's with the teabaggers comment there cowboyron?

What exactly were you referring to?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Flagged

I’m not sure if you are insulting Westphal supporters or teabaggers here, but someone is being insulted, so I’m flagging it.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 27, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

He continues to insult my inteligence

and my small knowledge of the English language. Flag him for that

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Dec 27, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

lolololololol

The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"

by lodisacfan on Dec 27, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That's OK

We all have a little cowboyron in us…

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 27, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

lol

The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"

by lodisacfan on Dec 27, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Westphal's Lineup Change Rationale

Note: even though this is a repost from HighTop’s game preview, I think it is useful for the Westphal comments.

Agree that the lineup change is key and I think Westphal’s comments signal a movement towards more veteran playing time.

The team will take a different approach as it heads into Monday’s matchup.

“Tomorrow we plan on going with Samuel (Dalembert), Carl (Landry), Francisco (Garcia), Tyreke (Evans) and Beno (Udrih),” said Coach Paul Westphal. “I’m trying to get our most experienced players out there. It’s time for that.”

After testing a few lineups, the coaching staff believes the younger players can learn best from watching the veterans in action.

“I think it’s important to try developing our young players through a little bit more of the apprentice method than the sink or swim method,” said Westphal. “The more professionalism we have for people to learn from the better. Francisco (Garcia) and Beno (Udrih) are certainly two players who know what this League is all about and are good people to have around.”

I hope he tries to develop a second unit of Pooh, Taylor, Omri, JT and Cousins. I think that can be an effective, exciting backup unit.

For Donte, I think it’s another trip from starter to almost DNP status. Maybe if he plays with the Pooh unit he can capture some of the magic Omri has shown. Jackson also deserves some PT, but somebody is going to be the odd man out and he can certainly get some reps while JT is getting the cobwebs out in his return.

"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."

by NewEraKings on Dec 27, 2010 10:29 AM PST reply actions  

The thing I don't understand is why Evan's is immune to all of these changes.

He has the worst FG% of any player who has started a game this season. He takes the most shots. He has the highest TO%. Yes he has more assists (barely) than Beno, and he plays reasonable D. But even he admits he is not running on all cylinders. If you really are trying everything you can to win, when do you admit that Evans may be hurting more than he is helping right now and try bring him off the bench?

"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."

Section 214

by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

My guess is, 'Reke says all the right things every time Westphal talks to him about what he's doing wrong and why, etc.

Assuming that those conversations actually happen. Though, can we really assume anything about this team right now?

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 27, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Though, can we really assume anything about this team right now?

I don’t think so.

"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."

Section 214

by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

So playing time is now based on years in the league?

Ugggh. What’s next playing time based on height or body fat %?

I do agree Donte is headed to the end of the bench. And I like Pooh and Taylor has back-up guards who can increase tempo. And with Omri that puts are three fastest players on the court at the same time. I like that. So there is a logic to it, I suppose.

Here’s what I would do though: I put my 5 best scorers in the starting lineup and tell Reke to penetrate and pass the ball, and rediscover your game. This is the key to a turnaround. Our best player has to remember who he is and what he can do.

Reke
Beno
Omri
Landry
Big Cuz

…are the five best scorers on the team. There should be no excuse for forced shots by Reke when he has these weapons at his disposal. I roll with this lineup indefinitely. I think we saw this lineup once or twice max. Makes more sense to me than inserting Cisco into a ‘3’ spot he has played minimally this year, and sporadic at best.

by bench_blob on Dec 27, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, according to 82games.com

That lineup has been the second most used by Westphal: http://www.82games.com/1011/1011SAC2.HTM.

Interesting that the most balanced and effective lineup (if their information is accurate) is Evans-Head-Greene-Landry-Dalembert, or Udrih-Evans-Greene-Landry-Cousins (so basically your idea but substituting Greene for Casspi).

by otis29 on Dec 27, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

So...

The Foreseeable Future is now defined as Before the End of the Calendar Year.

And as much as I like Cisco, is he really better than both Donté and Omri at the 3?

My personal choice would be to remove Tyreke from the starting lineup until he works through his injuries/personal issues/slump. Let him watch the games from the bench for a while. At the very least, it would take some of the pressure off his shoulders to be “the man”.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 27, 2010 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

Although I like this suggestion

to sit Tyreke, it probably won’t happen. Maybe a more realistic approach would be to keep him seated the entire first half. Since he seems incapable to produce two good halves, maybe that is a solution for the time being.

I’m not thrilled with Cisco at the 3, but it beats having JT play that position.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Dec 27, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I would rather seat him the whole second half.

He has come out on fire the first quarter of the past few games and then completely choked until the last few minutes of the fourth… So play him the first quarter and last four minutes. That is when he has been most effective.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

But what if his decline is mostly

fatigue and pain?
Then you miss the opportunity of having your best closer on top of his game playing near the end of the game. Provided we are not down by 20 at that point…
Of course, this is all theory, but I really would like to see how this pans out for some games.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Dec 27, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

At the three spot

Checking the numbers at 82games.com for each of these guys at the SF position last season:

Donté: PER of 11.5, opponent PER of 18.8 (net difference -7.3)
Omri: PER of 15.7, opponent PER of 15.4 (net difference 0.3)
Cisco (obviously limited data available): PER of 5.4, opponent PER of 25.5 (net difference of -20.0)

To this point in the current season:

Donté: PER of 11.2, opponent PER of 13.8 (net difference -2.6)
Omri: PER of 16.1, opponent PER of 22.2 (net difference -6.1)
Cisco: PER of 10.9, opponent PER of 14.1 (net difference of -3.2)

Looks like a crapshoot to me – although I think you can just about throw out Cisco’s numbers for last season. And obviously PER is a very limited way to look at this. Most likely, it’s going to be the usual “sacrificing offense for defense” or vice versa thing.

by otis29 on Dec 27, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe all the players need a can of this...

None of the losses the Kings cook up ever stick to Tyreke.

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:07 AM PST reply actions  

Not sure what you mean by this to be honest

Is this in response to the fact he keeps starting even though we are losing or are you saying Tyreke never gets any flack for the losing?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

The starting part, even playing part...

He is not helping the team and hurting it instead. I think its fair to say most of agree on this point.

The claim for his poor performances is he is hurt and that has changed to he is dealing with personal problems… excuses for Evans. Maybe I am too myopic but I do not see any other player getting away with half of that. If Reke is not helping then sit him down and let him heal… enough of the excuses and keeping him in the game (yeah I am not saying anything you haven’t already heard but it is the best I have to offer right now)

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I would think this is an indictment of PW, but this comes across as focusing on Evans

I mean you want to gripe about this then I am onboard and in that club, but this should not be about Tyreke Evans.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Why is one okay and the other not?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Tyreke is a player. Unless he's so badly injured, and it should be obvious.....then it's on Tyreke when he doesn't play well.

You can’t absolve Tyreke of his poor struggles.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

of his poor play & struggles

;alkjevl;ajkerl;ajkev;lj @ these errors.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Not absolving Tyreke

I was reading the post in the context of changes in the starting line up

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Sorry but Kromeace's post was complaining about PW making excuses for Evans.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Got it, true

Going for more coffee now

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Get me some pure grade 100% Colombian will ya?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Costa Rican is way better

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll take your word for it.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I would rather have TZ's cat

I heard it looks into other’s soul. Way too cool.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Who would argue that?

Lions are much cooler…

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

But Tigers have cool orange stripes yo. Like the Cincinnati Bengals.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Just 51 weeks til my birthday…

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 27, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Thats just crazy

Look at the hair!

Signed,
The Lion KING

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

My white & bengal tigers are quite fierce.

Fuck with them at your own peril.

It’s not the size of the tiger in the fight; it’s the size of the fight in the tiger. Yo Adrian….

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Mmgphhgrrrph... sorry, you say something?

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

My tiger is better than your lion....

…my tiger is better than yours….

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Found the middle ground

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Awesome Kromeace.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

A Liger!

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes and keeping him in the starting line up

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh sorry I thought you were saying it was (for lack of a better word) innappropriate to talk about Tyreke's play

given kromeace was talking about both the fact he is starting and his overall play

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

No, I think he should rest and heal up

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Focused as being in the starting lineup

I just don’t get why he is starting, he is not bringing any value to the team or the fans.

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

But then again I cannot speak for ALL the fans...

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 27, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I just think the lineup issues are on PW

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Dec 27, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Why do this???

The only person that needs to be on the bench is Tyreke, for the sole purpose of resting his foot. Cousins should be in the starting line up, the removal of donte can sadly be justified, but what can cisco do that casspi cant? FIRE WESTPHAL.

by FutureKing on Dec 27, 2010 11:37 AM PST reply actions  

If we're in a panic to win some games, now, then, yes, this move is ridiculous.

If we’re taking a long view toward developing DMC as a professional, and as a player, and toward developing Donte and Casspi, too, then this makes a lot of sense. These young guys were given a lot of sink or swim minutes. Maybe it is time for some apprentice learning. Doesn’t seem crazy.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Dec 27, 2010 11:59 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Indeed

I don’t know if these are the right veterans to learn from (we’ll find out), but I think your logic has merit.

I know it’s a pipe dream, but I’d still love to see a trade for a Billups or Prince (or both) to fill those mentoring roles.

by otis29 on Dec 27, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Even though Prince isn't perfect in his own statements publicly with John Keuster...

…he has to be an improvement on Casspi, Greene or Garcia.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

With you on this.

I have to say, I am pretty stunned that our team isn’t more competitive than last year. Wasn’t our front court last year our weak link and this year isn’t it vastly improved? I don’t get it.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Dec 27, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I have an honest question.

What if this starting lineup works? Will Westphal get credit for that?

Note: I’m not saying success will happen one way or the other.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:19 PM PST reply actions  

I think bags are involved somewhere.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm going to rec this because it's too funny.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Depends on the definition of 'works'

Everyone has a different one

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Dec 27, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

are you kidding me

what if….? Give me a break. do you seriously believe that PW should not get fired…..? Keeping him is in the best interest of the team….? I

by ziggie on Dec 27, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

So I started Dalembert in my fantasy league this week.

Personally, I’d be elated if DMC was back in the starting lineup before week’s end, but fantasy-wise, it would hurt me. Think I made a wise choice? I have a feeling Westphal is going to hold Cuz down for a while.

On a side note, how can you say you’re going to bench somebody for being immature and start him again that same season? Doesn’t it take a while to “mature”? Especially when it’s something like taunting, not forgetting plays or something basketball-related.

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Dec 27, 2010 1:59 PM PST reply actions  

FIRE PW NOW

this is exactly the kind of stuff that needs to stop. He needs to go and he needs to go NOW.

by ziggie on Dec 27, 2010 2:39 PM PST reply actions  

The problem isn't who starts.

The problem is choking in the fourth quarter. The players lack confidence and a well defined role (besides choking). They do pick up the intensity in the fourth quarter – the intensity of their fear. You can see it in their hesitation, turnovers, silly fouls and general bone-headed play.

by fryingpan136 on Dec 27, 2010 5:00 PM PST reply actions  

I'm sorry, because this has nothing to do with anything, but...

…your username is reminding me of this, and the urge to post it is overwhelming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRWwEWHjO34

In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg

by PurpleLoco on Dec 27, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're onto something, which fryingpans 1 to 135 seem to have overlooked

But I guess the long view is that our “choking five” will become our “five poised closers” with more repetitions, more apprenticeship, more experience.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Dec 27, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

1 through 135 were the bad clones.

I sure hope they become poised in the future.

by fryingpan136 on Dec 27, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

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