Kings Suffer More Embarrassment, Lose 113-80 to Lakers
by Tom Ziller on Dec 4, 2010 4:47 AM PST
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The Kings were uncompetitive in Los Angeles as the Lakers ran through Sacramento to the tune of a 33-point win. The Kings were in the game for about 21 minutes of game time; there are 48 minutes in an NBA game, and that means about 27 of those minutes were not particularly entertaining.
The Kings did not take good shots, make good passes, make good decisions or plays off the dribble or make good defensive rotations. The Kings failed to put any pressure on the Lakers' offense -- if L.A. wanted to shoot from any particular spot on the floor, they could have, because the Kings were either powerless or unwilling to stop it.
Turnovers murdered every single sign of life from Sacramento. There were 21 in all, and no one player should be held in any responsibility when it comes to the turnovers, though I ought to note Samuel Dalembert had four turnovers in 20 minutes, and 'twere of the "Hold onto the ball!" variety. Dalembert played decent defense while on the floor, but his turnovers were so sloppy and dispiriting, and his offense in general so void of value that I was relieved when he left the court, even though that meant Pau Gasol would be carving up DeMarcus Cousins like a buche de noel.
Cousins had trouble around the rim again; he tends to get a bunch of offensive rebounds in heavy traffic, and it's difficult to convert those putbacks, so he doesn't. Sometimes he eventually gets fouled, sometimes the defense ends up with a rebound and runs away. But that's a big part of his 3-9 night. He is attempting putbacks with three bodies draped over him.
Tyreke Evans played as he has been playing, which is to say he had some nice notes -- his spot-up threes looked rather good, as he shot 3-7 from long-range -- but was overall completely unable to make a great impact on the game. He had two nice assists in the opening two possessions of the game -- a kick-out to Donte Greene and a simple set-up for a Jason Thompson jumper. Those would be the only two assists of the night for Evans. His passes weren't crisp, his shooters weren't shooting, and -- as always -- there was little movement off the ball.
It's no surprise the Kings' confidence is completely shot. But that -- a lack of belief in what they are supposed to do on any given play -- is killing the team. They make good plays every once in a while, and don't replicate them. When the opponent shifts its strategy to cover a weakness, the Kings don't shift their strategy. They fall right into the trap. That's not on coaches or players -- it's both. These players are smart about basketball, and it's not showing.
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Your last paragraph
I think it’s on the coaches, and it’s getting harder and harder to defend the idea of allowing Westphal to continue through the end of the season.
Is it really possible that we’ve collected the dumbest group of professional basketball players going? Are they so dumb that their talent alone can’t squeak out a win against a bad team at home or keep them remotely competitive on the road?
Or should we invoke Occam and say that a coaching staff that continues to jimmy-jack the lineup on a game by game basis is the culprit?
My defense of Westphal has been more about maintaining continuity than his actual skill level to this point. Now I’m wondering if it’s more dangerous to keep him around, as he might significantly set back the development of these young players.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
by otis29 on Dec 4, 2010 5:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
I think this exactly sums up my opinion at this point.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
Not so much a defense of Westphal but ...
My defense of Westphal has been more about maintaining continuity than his actual skill level to this point. Now I’m wondering if it’s more dangerous to keep him around, as he might significantly set back the development of these young players.
I don’t quite see how the development will be put back on track with any of our interim choices. Not saying it’s a huge risk but I just don’t see their development changing much because of a mid season coaching change either way.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
I think the frustration has to be the lack of options at this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
These players have to learn how to play together. How to play as a team
They aren’t going to learn that under PW. He is going to jack up the rotations and keep trying one thing after another instead of teaching this team, at a fundamental level, how to play as a team.
IF this team had chemistry and were playing well together they would be playing better offense AND defense. They would at least be competitive. There is no chemistry at all.
PW the Chemistry Killer
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Furthermore
To say there isn’t enough talent is not fair. Look at the Heat, ton of talent and a chemistry problem. So, they are not playing as well and lose a lot of games to teams over .5000. Many of those good teams have a lot less talent, but they do have chemistry.
It isn’t just a lack of talent or the right talent. It is a lack of chemistry and that has to be developed from continuity and consistent time on the floor.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I'm sorry
But did you really just compare the Kings to the Heat? Really?
So let me get this straight. Taking away a coach who has more game experience than practically all of our players combined and replacing him with one of his assistants is going to bring back chemistry, improve our defense and offense, get Cuz on the right track, make Tyreke pass the ball better, find a real starting small forward, and help us win more games?
All I can say yo that is:
Good luck.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Dec 4, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Chris Webber approves of this message.
Well done SB.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Chemistry
I think that the lack of chemistry of the Heat is an example of talent with no chemistry. I don’t think it is outside of the realm of realistic to say that the Kings are playing below their talent level. The Heat absolutely are doing that. I can’t see that this is too far of a stretch.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I think you miss my point.
Chemistry will go a long ways to fixing the issues with this team.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I'd say an obvious system, role definition and a real PG would help.
Again, whenever I wonder if PW is the issue I think of what Phil Jackson would do with this team. Everyone would know their role, and if they didn’t play it correctly they’d be on the pine or cut.
I totally hear you.
It is becoming clear to me that certain posters will bend over backwards to not understand the point you are making (correctly IMO).
I understand you completely
What you seem to be missing is that right now we don’t have the talent of LeBron in all of our players combined. I seriously doubt we could beat him in a one on 5. Will that change with experience? I hope so. But what you are missing is that chemistry will come for the Heat not with a new coach, but with playing more together.
Since we don’t have the players to be anything but a lottery team at this point, harping on chemistry, like it is any coach’s fault is as pointless as comparing Darko to Vlade. Once you realize what he is working with, you can be unhappy with PW. But you can not blame the potter for making a weak pot when he is given seriously weak clay to mold.
PW may or may not be the solution, but he is not anywhere near the biggest problem on this team.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Dec 4, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Said much better than I did SB.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I totally disagree.
Chemistry has NOTHING to do with ability.
You are making MMBS’s case for him. Chemistry exists trough playing players together consistently. Plus – give me a freaking break. This team BLOWS and it has nothing to do with talent when you compare our talent to the league. There are several teams with lesser talent playing far better than this team.
Westphal IS our biggest problem. I don’t think any other problem ever registers.
- I’m not trying to be obnoxious, just a passionate disagreement! *
by Hoops Mike on Dec 4, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
Since we don’t have the players to be anything but a lottery team at this point, harping on chemistry, like it is any coach’s fault is as pointless as comparing Darko to Vlade.
The issue with chemistry is a problem, IMO, because of the wacked out rotations and continuous experiments that are being conducted. The starting of a player and then their benching. The playing of players in roles they are not suited for and can’t be successful doing. These are all coaching issues and barriers to developing chemistry. Again, IMO.
I understand that we have talent issues, but we are more talented than last year. We are, as the Kings media campaign say, ‘Bigger, Badder, and Better’ poster states… but not doing as well as we should given the increase in talent.
I take it that you are saying that what is more important is the lack of talent on this roster, but I disagree. I see a hugely talented roster of the Heat and a lack of chemistry causing them to play sub par and other lesser talented teams playing with chemistry that are kicking ass.
I think that the importance of chemistry is a different matter, but one that can trump talent. Chemistry can beat talent and does regularly in the NBA. This is a TEAM sport and the sum of the parts are often greater than the individual talents of the players.
That is why jerking people in and out of the line ups and treating the team like a collection of individuals, which I think PW does, is not succeeding. This is a team that badly needs to gel and develop chemistry and I have not seen, to date, that PW can foster that. If he can then fine let him turn this train wreck around, but if he keeps killing the chemistry he needs to go.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Dec 4, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
and whether some poster’s believe that PW is only a small amount of the problem, at this point, I am convinced he is not part of the solution either, so get him out of the way before we have players completely losing their confidence.
I disagree with this a great deal.
Player confidence, if it’s being lost because of the coach, means they aren’t NBA players.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
oh pookey
You cant say that seriously. Are you telling me you have never seen a coach have a negative effect on a player, from mildly to drastically?
Do you want me to scream it at your apartment?
I’m totally dead 100% serious.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hahahaha.
They probably won’t hear me cuz they’re basking in the sunshine. (Well, relative to Seattle anyway.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree with pookey
Self-confidence is not something a coach steers; that’s something the player controls. It’s one thing if the players aren’t confident in the coach’s ability to lead, but it’s completely different if the players aren’t confident being basketball players. If they’re not confident playing basketball, I agree that, as pookey said, they shouldn’t be NBA players.
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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
I've been trying to be patient, but it is getting harder to defend PW.
But you can not blame the potter for making a weak pot when he is given seriously weak clay to mold.
The above is a true statement, but the “potter” in this case is using the same or slightly-improved “clay” and is creating a weaker pot than last year’s model.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
I under exactly MBS points. I don't even disagree with his assertions of what the problems are.
What I disagree with is the solutions that he has come up with the current problems of this team.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah sorry
pretty clear what Mustang is saying.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 4, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Hoops Mike, you are dead on.
People are in such deep denial about the Kings current coach it hurts. At this point, could an interim coach do any more damage to this team than Westphal has already done this season?
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
What denial is going on about Westphal?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well....
Clearly he isn’t getting the job done and needs to be replaced with a coach who will hopefully create a new spark and a new philosophy.
I know every Kings fan isn’t happy with Westphal’s coaching, and no one is apologizing for him, but some people, especially on STR, want to wait it out until the end of the season until there’s a better option available. They’re opposed to the idea of an interim head coach when in reality a interim coach couldn’t possibly do a worse job than Westphal has already done.
I was a bit harsh saying that they’re in deep denial and should of chosen my words more carefully.
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
With all due respect,
I don’t want to make a change just because
…in reality a interim coach couldn’t possibly do a worse job than Westphal has already done.If the interim is not going to improve things, then why fire a coach only a few months after you extended him? What is to be gained by changing the system yet again in mid-stream? And if you’re not going to change the system, then why change the coach?
To be clear, I’m not against change. What I am against is change for the sake of change. That is short-sighted and capricious, in my opinion.
Make a change for the better? Certainly. Make a change because “it can’t get worse?” I’ve been a Kings fan for 26 years, and I have seen it worse. No thank you to change for change sake.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I've been through this before Diego.
And, well, 214 has been through all of the changes. And this is what I’m against (like 214—jeez piggybacking is so easy!):
What I am against is change for the sake of change
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I respect your opinions a lot actually, you're a smart man.
But I disagree is all. No biggie. We are all Kings fans here anyway. I just think that Wetsphal is a lame duck coach right now and its only a matter of time until he gets his wings clipped completely. He reminds me of Wade Phillips before he got fired from the Cowboys, only thing missing is the whoa is me please feel feel bad for me routine at his post game press conferences.
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
The Cowboys had quit on Wade and had more veterans making up that team (in terms of %) than PW has with this team.
It’s not the same thing. Sorry.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Your opinion
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
Well yes...
…but you’re not going to get any experienced or highly knowledgable people to really agree with a different sport analogy. I realize why it’s handy, but, well, it’s not the same thing. Sorry.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No problem
But I’m with pookey as it pertains to this team not having quit on Westphal. I’ve seen a lot of poor play, but not a lot of poor effort.
I thought that when they hired Westphal, it was merely as a short term caretaker. I still see it that way, and probably will unless this squad quits on him. As I’ve said, I really don’t think that’s the case – not yet, anyway.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Nate McMillan went 21-61 his first season as head coach of the Blazers.
He went 32-50 his 2nd season and 41-41 his 3rd season. This stuff isn’t as linear as all fanbases would like. Unfortunately, that is.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was hoping for a little more than a caretaker
I think he’s too experienced to simply be a caretaker.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
The day he was hired,
I said that he is not the guy that returns the franchise to prominence. He is the guy that caretakes the team (at a low price) until the level of talent mandates and attracts an upper tier coach / coaching prospect. This does not mean that he should get a free pass, mind you. It just means that you get what you pay for, and right now I think that it would be foolish for the Kings to invest a whole lot more into coaching, given the level of talent. Again, that all changes if/when Westphal loses the team.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree with this.
But I think 17 games is too early to make that judgment. Although, it is disheartening no question.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To say there isn’t enough talent is not fair
That was not exactly my point Mustang. It’s not just talent but also given we are already 15 games into the season and the interim coach would likely be someone in PW’s staff, we will unlikely see the “teaching this team, at a fundamental level” you are talking about.
And yes I am well aware Scotty Brooks improved the Thunder last year. I don’t think we quite have that level of talent.
And yes I am well aware that you think we are screwed with PW anyway so why not try.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 4, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
You mean the Kings don't have Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook..
….James Harden, Jeff Green, Serge Ibaka, Nick Collison, Thabo Sefalosha or Nenad Krstic? Shocking that you would believe that Wally.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
People are way too quick to compare the Kings to OKC.
Way way way way too quick to make that comparison and expect that kind of leap from this team this year.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Russel Westbrook & Kevin Durant are 1st team all NBA talent
Everyone else you mention are just roll players. No one is expecting this team to be as good as OKC but this team has enough talent to get to 35 wins. Right now we’d be lucky to win 10 more games. Coaches matter plain & simple. If that wasn’t the case Phil Jackson wouldn’t be making $10 million per year. The Spurs & Celtics are ancient but are still 2 of the top 5 teams in the league because of coaching imo. Oh & by the way the Thunder was miserable under PJ Carlesimo. The started improving the second Brooks took over.
I don’t know if we should fire PW or not but to be of the opinion that coaching is not a serious problem here is just ridiculous to me.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Dec 4, 2010 1:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I never said coaches didn't matter. I never said Paul Westphal is doing a tremendous job.
Don’t put words in my mouth because I think firing Paul Westphal is counter-productive. Don’t summarize my opinion when you aren’t accurately stating it please.
I get your frustrated, and there’s a lot of that going around right now, but keep in mind there are worse things`.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Even though I replied to you
My little rant wasn’t all directed towards you. My bad your right I am just frustrated. We upgraded our talent imo maybe not dramatically but still upgraded. Our player are suposed to be growing individually & together. They are getting worse. I don’t know what the solution is. I feel like this is a lost season already & that’s sad. PW is not the guy but most likely the guy isn’t on his staff. So no matter what we’ll deal with a discombobulated season, PW will get canned, hopefully we hire a great coach at the end. Even then the players development will be so far behind it will take the new coach 2 or 3 season just to get us to .500 ball. That’s if Tyreke doesn’t decide to abandon ship.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Dec 4, 2010 1:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well it was partly directed to me. Therefore I felt I needed to reply. Having said that....
I don’t know that this losing is stunting the players future development. I don’t know what this season quite means yet. It isnt’ exactly over.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Jeff Green and Ibaka are better right now than anyone not named Tyreke on this team
I have zero clue who said coaching doesn’t matter
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
Landry & Cousins are both better than Ibaka & Green
IMO obviously you disagree. To me it’s atleast a wash. I wouldn’t trade Cousins for Ibaka if they threw in James Harden. I might do Landry for Green only because I think Green would fit in with this team & particularly Cousins better.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Dec 4, 2010 1:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry but it's not a wash.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Landry was averaging 16 points off the bench in Houston but in PW's system he doesn't have any talent huh?
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
Could be that Landry was used in the right way in Houston...
…and the mix of players are different there too. I wish Landry could duplicate what he did in Houston for the Kings however. I would wet myself every night if Landry did that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Apparently, we don't know how to use Landry at the free throw line
He was 81% and 84% his last two seasons in Houston, and he’s been 74% and 66% here.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Stupid Paul Westphal. He must be forgetting to tell Carl Landry to make his FT's.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
In regards to Landry
Was he this anonymous defensively and on the boards in Houston. I remember being a fan of his (well, he was on my fantasy team), but I dont recall him being weak defensively, which I feel his is now. I wonder if that is an effort thing, or just a failure of us having a poor defensive scheme.
Yeah he was bad defensively and on the boards.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He had better defensive guys around him. A lot better defensive guys than Sac has to be precise.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by the way
had nothing to do with trade value. That wasn’t the issue. At all.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
I know your point wasn't talent.
That is why I added it as a reply to myself. As you can see others are and have been making the talent argument.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
That's the thing
Regardless of the talent level here (or IMO the untapped potential of the youth), they are underachieving in a big way right now. And if anything, there isn’t any noticeable improvement over time.
That’s the facts, and they are indisputable, and that’s on PW and Co.
Now, you can still believe that and believe that changing coaches is the wrong way to go – because you think PW will figure it out, or you think the available coaching alternatives are worse.
But I don’t think anyone could convince me that PW has done a good or even adequate job to this point.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
No
He has done a poor job, and we are getting worse. Whether you want to blame him partially or fully, he is not part of the solution, so he should be replaced.
I'm open to change
if its determined that the coaching staff isn’t fostering a learning environment for these players.
To be honest, I think we do have a particularly dumb group of players, we don’t see a lot of sneaky plays to score easy ones with this team. Look at Toronto the other night, they just have a bunch of athletes and two smart players. The difference is that the smart player is always talking to the athletes and telling them where to be. Now that we are nearly a quarter through the season they are starting to get a ton of alley oops and easy buckets just from being in good position and knowing each other. We don’t see that from this team because they are not smart enough to play off the ball to make themselves available. Tyreke is good at kicking out, but I want layups and dunks! If our players knew how to cut to the bucket on his drives we would be getting them, instead we get shitty shooters getting open shots that aren’t going to fall. Because thats the primary offense at this point, we aren’t going to do well.
Now this could also be a coaching flaw, the continuity thing is obviously an issue that Westphal is directly responsible for. I also don’t like that we are seeing the same issues from the same players in terms of moving without the ball and doing too much off the dribble. I agree that if he isn’t developing these young players its a bad move to keep him around, perhaps the owners thought we could make a big jump and be a boarder line playoff team so they thought we should need a coach that could take us there. If we make a change we desperately need a teacher, we don’t have a great locker room presence and our players aren’t smart enough to figure it out on their own.
I dont know about westphal .
But one thing we dont want , is for DMC and all of our young players so checked out of the system that they start to play like the Kings did during Reggie Theuss’s last few months with the team. Thats what last night sounded like to me.
Westphal has alienated beno, landry
Westphal experiment has gone awkwardly wrong. TIME TO FIRE HIM. He has alienated his players. Players have stopped playing for him. THey dont have faith in his system and dont have faith in him as a coach. Sad but true, that this Westphal experiment needs to be terminated. Put an end to this sad skid by kings and an end to Westphal.
Mayday, Mayday. SIR, PETRIE, SIR,"we need capable shooters at 23ft 9inches, the enemy is approaching, SIR". Radio goes silence......... "Sir, DO YOU COPY".
by sacboiiiii on Dec 4, 2010 6:42 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Honest Question...
When was the last time the team with the overall lowest payroll was at all competitive in the NBA?? I think we simply don’t have the talent to be successful right now. I know salaries don’t always equate to talent especially on the rookie scale, but the NBA is not like MLB. It’s not like the Marlins taking on the Yankees. The Kings just played the Yankees of the NBA and the talent and experience level gap was wider than it has ever been, and it painfully shows. I’ve officially come to the conclusion the Kings are playing to their level on not our expectations, and this somehow makes me feel better.
by adamsite on Dec 4, 2010 6:55 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm all for riding it out with PW as long as
I don’t think he’s destroying the team. I’m starting to lean that he is after trying hard not to.
Make a decision and stick to it, no execuses..
I think ne is crushing Casspi, who must now think if he misses a D assignment or a shot he is going to get a couple of DNPs. jThas been handled poorly, Landry…etc etc.
Play the team you are building with Evans Cousins Casspi Greene JT and add veterans to the mix. Landry if you think he’s part of the core. Udrih if you think he is a good back up 2-3.
Dalembert for change of pace D and whoever.
Playing side by side with the same guys with knowledge that as long as you keep trying to get better you will play tomorrow, may noy make you a great team, but, in the short term and the long term it will make you a better one than PWs current plan.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Dec 4, 2010 7:24 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
This makes a lot of sense
Play the team you are building with Evans Cousins Casspi Greene JT and add veterans to the mix. Landry if you think he’s part of the core. Udrih if you think he is a good back up 2-3. Dalembert for change of pace D and whoever.
But apparently it makes too much sense for the current coach to implement.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
totally agree
I know Casspi has had his issue’s on D, but the one thing he does is bring energy and hustle and scoring. And thats what we need right now. Its frustrating he is getting no playing time. I"m starting to wonder if Westphal is the coach we need right now.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
the most crushing thing to watch
Is how boring this team is. We all expected this team to be below .500, to have growing pains but at least they were supposed to be exciting and youthful. We even had mainstream media and bloggers marking our Kings as one of the entertaining/interesting teams to check for this season. Instead, the season has devolved to the point where even the die-hards have to tune out halfway through the games.
by Kevin Conroy on Dec 4, 2010 8:01 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I think the Dalembert experiment has not gone well, either.
For what he brings on D, which is quite good, I just think he doesn’t fit the team and bring enough on O. His expiring contract, along with our cap space should be used to get a quality player…despite the fact that I don’t think any significant moves will be made until the offseason.
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"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
Dalembert needs a superior passing PG to play with
Similar to Tyson Chandler when he had CP3. Hey what ever happened to Sergio Rodriguez? Not saying he is the answer just curious
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Dec 4, 2010 1:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Signed with a team in Spain
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Chandler is averaging 9pt & 9.5 rebs on 66% shooting with Dallas and J Kidd.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Agree with Sammy doesn't fit
put him on the floor with 4 guys who can score and he’ll be fine, but we don’t have that….so…
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
A reasonable take.
I like Dalembert when they aren’t asking him to be Kareem, but his defense isn’t worth it if Tyreke can’t shoot at all (a whole additional problem). You can’t sacrifice as much offense as Dalembert forces us to if you can’t make it up elsewhere.
Are you saying we'd be better off with Hawes?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Offensively we probably would be
at least his standing around on the perimeter was a threat.
No.
In my opinion, Hawes wasn’t good at anything.
I actually like Dalembert. I just think they are asking him to do too much. He should be on the floor with our best offensive team.
I really think Westphal is a dumb coach. In pre-season we stated that we were going up-tempo. I actually agree with this wholeheartedly as we were never going to be a specifically defensive team with our experience and personnel. We lose a few games and Westphal feels pressure to slow us down and concentrate on defense – ridiculous. This is just drawing attention to all of our shortcomings. The point of up-tempo is to score easily in transition. It helps hide the fact that you don’t have a great perimeter game because you are getting more layups. I actually think Dalembert would thrive in such an offense as his greatest offensive asset is his athleticism. Let him outrun his cover to the basket. Dalembert in the halfcourt is a waste of time offensively – alley-oops and putbacks is all he should be doing.
I think you fell into my Chasm, sorry
Sorry, again but I’m not in total agreement. The general thinking is that Dalembert would be the defensive stopper who could make up for our poor exterior defense. The poor exterior defense was caused by having two of our best offensive players in the backcourt last season (Reke & Beno). But, that plan failed to some extent, so we ended up with Luther in for Beno. Unfortunately, it was at the same time that Evans’ game was affected by his foot problems.
Which brings us back to the real crux of the problem. PW has tunnel vision and believes the answer to a problem can be found on the bench. Instead of replacing Beno, he needed to find a way to alter the team defense to hide Beno’s flaws. The other alternative was to replace Beno with Head but also replace Beno’s offense by changing PW’s decision that the 3 position wasn’t a primary scoring position. And, create plays to open up more and easier shots for the 3 which I believe would have taken some of the attention off Tyreke and created opportunities for him.
To me the constant lineup and rotations changes have always been a RED FLAG, that PW relies too heavily on his players and not his plays. I think Dalembert needed Head and isn’t capable of being the entire defense. But, we probably needed to get more offense out of the 3 and get the ball to Carl in closer to the basket where he has always been more efficient.
When I see our two best Bigs (Landry & Cousins) having to create their own offense 15-20 ft away from the rim, I seriously have to question the coaching ability of PW.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your Chasm???
I like your posts. Clearly we are in agreement on most of PW’s issues.
You aren’t in agreement on which point? The up-tempo point?
I don’t agree with you that Dalembert needs Head, I just think that our entire defensive scheme is poor. I think we should ALLOW penetration. We should chase guys off their spots on the perimeter and funnel them into Dalembert. The problem here is defensive rotation. As Dalembert leaves his man to alter/block a shot, someone has to rotate on the interior to take his man so the penetrator has no clear passing lane.
Our rotations are killing us. I think it is fine to let our perimeter defenders overplay. It is okay if they get beat off the dribble if our interior defense is sound. That is why you have a great shot-blocker.
I make the football analogy that if you have poor cornerbacks, the solution is NOT to rush three and play prevent (any good pro QB will complete passes given time), it is to blitz and force the QB into poor decisions. You will give up the big play occasionally, but you will also create turnovers on bad reads, and get hits on the QB.
My analogy with up-tempo and shot-blocking is – overplay the perimeter, funnel them in to defense, release guards for fast break, rebound and outlet. You can’t_cover_ for poor perimeter defense by dedicating more attention to it, you scheme it so that it is less detrimental. You coach to strengths, not to weaknesses IMO.
Chasm as in Sarchasm
Your analysis is fine but your overlooking the inhibitors. To be an uptempo team you need to get out quickly. We are the 4th worst team in steals, which means we need to start more of our fast breaks off defensive rebounds. But, we’re a below average defensive rebounding team, and Dalembert is an extremely poor outlet passer. Add to that how poorly Tyreke uses his teammates on fast breaks and how often he gets called for a charge, and I don’t really see us being an uptempo team right now.
Funneling the ball handler into Dalembert is only part of the defense. Players can put up and take a open jumper without going into the paint. Or be able to make a pass to set up one of their bigs, like the Clippers did on all of Griffins pick & roll dunks. Plus it means a complete defensive change when Cousins enters for Sam.
There are a number of reasons but the best one is that it isn’t working. The Kings are the worst team in the league at defending the rim. Currently, teams are making 71.8% of all their shots at the rim against the Kings.
But, mostly I disagree that we need 4 scorers in the game with Sammy. What we need is to run good plays to get better shots for the 3 scorers we have. Head is after all our 3rd best 3pt shooter, and is shooting 44% from the field and he’s one of our better FT shooters, so it’s not like he’s an offensive black hole like Sammy. What we do need is to get away from the idea that the 3 isn’t a primary offensive position.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sorry - I didn't get you (sarcasm doesn't have a 'h')
I think you make a decent analysis, but it is of numbers borne of our current idiocy.
Dalembert is only playing 22.5 minutes a game, and DMC only 23.5. The rebounding woes are partially due to the fact that this team’s two best rebounders don’t play an entire game combined. If you play there two together – Dalembert alters shots, DMC rebounds shots, and outlets – something HE is very good at.
Excellent point about Sam & Cousins being on the floor together.
But, it creates another delema, Who’s the 3rd big in the rotation? Is it Carl or JT? It would seem it would have to be Carl with JT as the backup when Sam or Cuz foul out.
I think the real problem with playing them together is stamina. Neither are in great game shape, and Sam is a career 24 mpg player. That and the fact that I don’t believe either can defend most PF’s. I think Sam got 4 fouls in 9 minutes trying to defend Griffin.
But, I have said that I thought that they could play together at the end of games to protect a lead or keep us close.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Since it's only somewhat recently that I've noticed you posting regularly,
I’ll point out that the sar-“chasm” is a running joke at StR. When people respond to a sarcastic post, having taken it at face value, they are said to have “fallen” into the “chasm.” There’s a picture that goes along with it.
That said, nearly everyone misspells the word anyway. Keep the good posts coming Mike!
...
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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Ahhhh. Sorry. My bad.
Thanks for the education.
Sorry High Tops – I didn’t get it.
Thanks lead_pipe!!!
At least the lane was open for Tyreke to slash!
And Noci is better than Greene!
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
Perhaps the only thing to do now is to
let all the young guys start. DMC, JT, Greene, Omri, Reke. Bring back Whiteside. Landry is our 4th Q guy. Beno… well, he backs up Reke.
Yeah, maybe we’ll get killed with Omri at the 2, but how’s that worse than being killed with Beno at the 2? Or Head?
The young guys may not perform better than what we have now (hard to see it being worse), but at least they’ll get a chance to find their feet. And who knows, if they play one game well… maybe that’s all they need to kickstart their confidence and really up their game.
So screw trying to find a winning combination. Just play the kids and let them figure it out. And hopefully along the way, they discover the fun side of basketball.
This.
by elfboy_ on Dec 4, 2010 8:55 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Agree
The thing we need to know when we go searching for FAs next season is what positions we need most critically (english teachers will kill me for that). Is Greene or Casspi our small forward for the next 5-7 years? Can JT find consistency or is he destined to be a back up. How good is Cousins and how soon can he become a front line player? Do we try Reke at off-guard for a decent run to decide if he is a 2 or a NaPG for the long term? Whiteside may take longer to be sure of what we have and seems like he can’t be rushed right now. Do we think Landry is a keeper (as a starter or 6th man)? .
We need these answers by the end of the year. That is GPs #1 thru #3 on his to do list, If PW is not rowing the same direction, we need to chuck him off the boat.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
DMC
I think as soon as he figures out the refs, and can start to earn their respect so that he doesn’t get those turrible “fouls” on him anymore. I think when he is allowed to focus on the game and not on fouling, we will see a huge jump on performance.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
I dont think its about figuring out the refs.
Young Demarcus needs to learn what the restricted area is… And he should learn not to react when hes called for a being in the restricted area and drawing contact.
Im fuckin ready for some FOOTBALL!!!
Good point
Really no combinations showing consistency. Put in players you want to build with. Maybe after another 30 games they show improvement.
Amen
So screw trying to find a winning combination. Just play the kids and let them figure it out. And hopefully along the way, they discover the fun side of basketball.
Chemistry between these young guys can only be born from familiarity with each other.
We are not winning anything this year, so lets at least give them a chance to have fun and learn each others game.
I for one will never be like some of the “fans” on here who say they are going away and will return once the team shows they deserve to be watched. I have been a Kings fan since they arrived here and have been through some miserable seasons, but I was also here for the great ones, and appreciated them all the more because of what I sat through previously. I understand the frustration, and I dont like watching them lose either, but sometimes you have to get beat up before you can learn how to fight.
I was uncool before it was cool
If we manage to draft Irving,
will we be “forced” to trade Tyreke then?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
I think as long as Tyreke keeps failing as bad as he is
we are going to have to start looking at him as possibly not the answer anymore. To make it clear, I am NOT ready to give up on him, but I am starting to question his star power. I look at Blake Griffin (unfair comparison I know) and I get so jealous at how he is just so well rounded and smart at the game. I look at John Wall, and see someone who was compared to Tyreke’s style of play, but is much more capable of running a fluid, functioning offense, not to mention he has a personality that he can use to be a leader. Now I realize, these are the 1st round picks, and Tyreke was fourth, and I know that right now he is hurt, and everyone goes through ups and downs… but… when a team is struggling, isn’t that the time the star takes it upon himself to get everyone together and boost the team? As LeBron said to Tyreke last season, “This is when true stars step up”
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Also
look at the Nets and Brooke Lopez. Even when they couldn’t buy a win, he still went out and dominated, and kept everyone positive. There was no bickering, and they went out and put there best on the court, because they knew it would eventually end. That is nowhere to be seen on our team. Our best player has separated from the team rather than rallying everyone together. That is my key frustration
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And, you'd think with all the great new plays that we have to get Evans open he'd be doing more
And, the same with Cousins and Carl. With all the new and inovative sets to get them the ball deep in the paint you’d think that they’d be scoring better.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think your sarchasm has stretched to more of a sargulf.
:-P
A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...
You think I was being sarchastic? ;)
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
He is in his second year! You want star power with a looser coach at the age of 21?
Even if the Kings win the next 3 drafts, with a looser coach like PW, they will all probably be on the bench or in Dleague and scrubs on 10 day contracts will be in the starting lineup.
"I’d insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand and if I tried to explain it to you, your brain might implode from information overload."
For one
I was questioning his potential star power. And for two, I just mentioned 2.5 players who showed more star power in their FIRST year of playing. (I only counted Brooke as 1/2 because I think he showed less star power in his first year than ’Reke, but is showing much more in his second year than ’Reke)
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
The only problem with Brook Lopez is that he is in his 3rd season right now.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
HaHa whoops
well then he only counts as .33333 instead of .5 on my scientific scale. But my point is really about the other two mentioned. He was kind of a separate example to what I was trying to say
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Oh well. At least you have a scale.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
buche de noel is appetizing, buche de puerco is more apt.
I missed the contest and via the wonder of technology I used my phone to set my DVR to record. This one will be unviewed and erased – from the comments and the box score, it sounds better left alone.
There is a difference between being non competitive and not competing. The tone of your analysis, TZ, is that it was both and if that was the case then I am concerned. Losing to the Lakers by 33 at Staples after they lost 4 in a row is far from a surprise. It is hard to show drive energy and passion when you are in an away environment and getting beat up by the champs, but that is why these guys are paid the big bucks. Until they win, even one game, they need to figure out a way to play through “the pain”.
I don’t expect tonight to have the Mavs roll over. If the Kings show up and give up then yes, I agree with the general sentiment (elucidated by ElRonToro) play the young’uns for the experience. The problem with that strategy is that today the pounding might get worse at the expense of future promise. Be careful what you wish for. More losses, even with plenty of PT for the young’uns is going to build a mountain of disappointment where only a hefty hill exists.
I'm already looking past the Mav's and at the Wizards, if we can't compete against them, well
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Correct about the Wiz game
In light of our recent play, I’m not exactly hopeful against the Mavs. If we have another T-Wolves or Grizzlies game against the Wiz…
I've clearly been on the, "Fire Westphal Immediately" bandwagon. (Still am.)
One of my biggest irritations with coaching, is trying to do things that players have NEVER shown the ability to do.
My latest rant involves Samuel Dalembert. When did Westphal decide that he could be an offensive force? Was something missing from his 8 point per game average over 8 freaking seasons??? Why is this guy EVER thrown a pass on the break? Why is he EVER the first offensive option when running the half-court offense. Does PW actually believe that Dalembert will force a double team? …OR that if a double miraculously did come, that Sammy D. could complete the proper pass? It is beyond ridiculous that we are asking him to be an offensive player. He is the same player as Tyson Chandler with less offense!!! Play him properly and he is all upside. His whole offense should be putbacks and alley-oops — NOTHING ELSE!!!!
Bobby Knight was asked once how he got poor shooters to make open shots – his response was, “You don’t.” He said that you made guys understand roles immediately. If they couldn’t accept them, they couldn’t play on the team. This is _EXACTLY _ correct.
Is this Bobby Knight guy available to coach? ;)
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I hear you man.
This nonsense is hard to watch. I have an even harder time understanding why fans will still support Westphal. He is truly awful. I get the problems with this team. We aren’t a team that was going to be over .500, but we are certainly a team that should win 35+ games. Our talent is nowhere near as bad as people are making it.
The overriding truth to me is that IT DOESN"T MATTER WHY. Westphal is the head coach. He is answerable for all of this mess on the court. He gets no “out.” Fair or not, coaches get too much credit when things are good, and too much blame when they are bad. Things are officially BAD.
I don't think people are supporting Westphal
they are just questioning how much a coaching change would even help. We are just scared of starting another coaching carousel and spending money for nothing. I think if a truly good option came up, everyone would be pretty united behind it.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Probably true.
We can hire an interim cheaply though. I’m fine with giving Elie a shot. The Maloofs just need to realize that he is a place-holder. If he manages to salvage ANYTHING from this season and foster some kind of growth or progress, you don’t reward him with a three year deal. He can apply for the job next year like any other candidate. We could also encourage him to say on with a new coach (pay him) – as long as a new coach isn’t opposed.
As someone not really on a bandwagon
I got zero problem with seeing what Elie can do. I don’t see why some think it’s risky; however, I also don’t really expect it be a cure all is all I have been trying to express.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
I'm more worried about Elie not really having anything to take over.
This isn’t what was going on in OKC; people think that Scott Brooks did alot of good things, but really, he was also benefitted by the young players growing up quickly.
The only truly smart thing that Brooks did was play Kevin Durant at the F spot. For some reason Carleismo insisted on playing Durant at the 2 and Green at the 3.
Still, it’s not like Brooks won a lot with that Thunder team after Carleismo was canned.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
...
The only truly smart thing that Brooks did was play Kevin Durant at the F spot. For some reason Carleismo insisted on playing Durant at the 2 and Green at the 3.
Reminds me of a Kings coach who used to start Jason Thompson at the 3 for several games
I agree that there isn’t much to take over. This is not a Scotty Brooks situation.
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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Not the same thing.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And, I think PW only did that to get JT minutes and try and see if there could be a better situation for the Kings in terms of mis-matches.
I don’t think PW has ever thought JT could match up with SF’s.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Didn't say it was
Was implying that coaches play guys at spots that don’t make any sense to fans sometimes.
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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely. I understand that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
.
The Maloofs just need to realize that he is a place-holder.
I’ve been thinking of it like this: after the Lakers game, Westphal was fired. A very similar coach (with an eerily identical name) was hired to be that placeholder. At the end of the year, the Maloofs will reevaluate.
When your falling out of a tree, you don't not grab a branch because it looks too weak
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
When I fall out of trees I look for the best way to land
grabbing weak branches will only turn you around and cause you more pain
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
When I fall out of a tree I try real hard to fly
I guess that’s the Sicilian in me
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Dec 4, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What in the hell
are all of you guys doing up in the trees in the first place? Get out of there, you knuckleheads!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
We can't watch the game from a tree, and falling is less painful
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn't be surprised if it worked
Never go against a Sicilian when death in on the line
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Automatic Rec for Princess Bride references.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
With all the statguru's in here
has anybody actually checked how teams fare after a coaching change, and also specifically what happens when an assistant takes over?
I mean, many here are adamant that such a change would do no good, and I suspect the same, but it would be nice to have some historical reference.
Sincerely,
stat-nitwit
Dunking Dutchman
Recent history
Reggie Theus = .250 winning percentage (6-18)
Kenny Natt = .190 winning percentage (11-47)
To be fair, Natt’s team underwent substantial changes at the trade deadline, as Salmons, Miller, Douby, S.Williams, B.Brown and M.Moore were all moved.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Also in '09
The Grizz gave Marc Iavaroni the boot at 18-46 (.281). Lionel Hollins went 13-26 (.333) after taking over.
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Some more, Wittman style
The ‘06-’07 Wolves were 20-20 under Dwayne Casey, followed by a 12-30 finish under Randy Wittman.
Two years later, the Wolves got off to a 4-15 start under Wittman, and then went 20-43 under Kevin McHale.
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And 1 more -
The ‘08-’09 Thunder started 1-12 under PJ Carlesimo, then went 22-47 under Scott Brooks.
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Thanks
I knew about Natt and Theus, and Brooks of course. The others not.
I guess with all our fantasies for the Kings to be the next Thunder, we’re hoping for Elie to be Brooks.
Dunking Dutchman
Thanks for the inspiration
I’m working on a post for this right now. No real conclusions drawn – just gathering the data so that everyone can weigh in. Should be up in a couple of hours.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
To be fair to Theus
Wasn’t he missing 3 of his 5 starters for much of the time? (memory is such a bitch for me lately :)
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
No.
There were injuries, but mostly Martin and Garcia were not getting major PT at that point. Miller missed time too, but that happens.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Doesn't it really depend on the replacement?
If we go by Kings recent history, it doesn’t go too much worse. And, I’m guessing it has more to do with Why the teams were performing badly before the change.
If it’s because the team has quite listening to PW who isn’t a lame duck coach because of his guaranteed contract for next year, it’s not going to be worse if we put a lame duck intrim coach in charge.
If it’s PW’s strategies that are the crux of the problem, and his assistants are of like thinking, promoting one of the assistants won’t help. But, if the assistants are only going along with the boss, but would do things differently if they were in charge, then it’s worth a chance to see what some one else can do.
After all, who thought that PW was the long term answer as Head Coach. If he was most likely out after next season or in the middle of next season, anyways, what’s the problem of pulling the plug now.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Agreed.
Assistants wouldn’t be assistants if they were not executing the wishes of the head coach.
Most assistants would do things differently than their boss given freedom to do them.
2 things I learned about Bill Walton.
Walton hates Dalembert.
Walton loves Cousins.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
Ha Ha
He sees lost potential in Dalembert
He sees infinite potential in Cousins
But yes I agree, he is blatently obvious in who he likes or dislikes.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I wonder
If Cousins would be as open to Walton’s input as Hibbert was.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Looking at the quick vid that they showed of them talking in shoot-around
it looked like Cousins was being very receptive. I hope he could learn a thing or two, even just for Walton’s mind-set of the game if nothing else
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
I think Cuz would lose interest fast, if Walton continued his philosophical banter
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Probably true
maybe they should just get high together and ponder the possibilities of the human mind
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Via Jason Jones
Evans said he wasn’t aggressive and was looking too pass too much and that the Kings best chance of winning is with him being aggressive 11 hours ago reply
Now THAT scares me to think this is how our Point Guard NaPG thinks. Tonight may get ugly.
I was uncool before it was cool
I actually agree with him.
The sad reality is that we have no offense aside from Tyreke taking it to the hole. The biggest problem with this is that Tyreke is finishing like 30% of his drives (at least it feels like this).
I dunno Mike
I’d like it a whole lot better if you drove to the hole and then dished to an open guy. The problem is he does not pass much when he drives. Part of this may be that his team mates do not move well without the ball, however I think THAT may be due to their frustration of knowing ’Reke’s not gonna pass when he drives, or he will pass it but it will be into a crowd…
I was uncool before it was cool
I believe he's talking about jacking up 20 Threes instead of just 7
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yup
He is missing tons of layups that he made last year
I am also starting to think that his “injury” is a bullshit excuse, he seems to look ok until things start to go sour (granted this usually doesn’t take long)
by lchristmas on Dec 4, 2010 10:56 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Don't think Ic
You’ll hurt yourself
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Not sure what I did to draw your "witty" retort
feel free to ignore my posts, respond substantively, or pleasure yourself to your own brilliance as you see fit
by lchristmas on Dec 4, 2010 11:05 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
My bad
I just thought that you saying "your starting to think his “injury” is a bullshit excuse" was moronic and I responded harshly. I will review some of your past greatness and look forward to your future brilliance and never suggest you are in error again.
My attempts at we witty were sophmoric and I will try to refrain from subjecting you to them
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
I promise also to try to be better at understandable sentences
please menatlly change "me: to “being” in the last sentence. Thanks.
That third grade education didn’t teach me as much as I thoughht it done.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Don't know where you get your stats,
But HoopData has Evans shooting 59% at the rim, which is better than last season. Although he is attempting 2 fewer shots than last year.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
That is really interesting.
I would never have guessed that.
It FEELS much worse.
I will have to watch more closely. Maybe it is WHEN he is making layups. I’d love to see his percentage when the score is within 10 points vs. when we are getting blown out.
[/Spits soda all over keyboard]
Are you kidding me? That is an astounding stat. I’d have guessed he was down around 10% this year. Does that mean when he gets his explosiveness back he’s going to finish MORE of them?
That’s seriously a VERY unexpected stat. Thank you for bringing that up.
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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
This is dumbfounding
I’d have guessed he was only making 1 or 2 layups a game, it’s felt that bad to me. Perhaps he’s turning the ball over more frequently when near the rim, and we’ve perceived this as missed layups?
He does have a low TS% at 46% which ranks him 58th among PG's and 56th among SG's
He has the 7th highest usage rate, but ranks 65th in Assist Rate and 27th in turnover Rate among all PG’s.
So, your gut feeling is probably correct but just not about his main stay the layup. At least when he gets to the basket and not turn it over in the paint.
Right now for a guy who handles the ball as much as he does, he doesn’t score well, he’s in the bottom 15 in assists per possessions, and he turns over the ball at a high rate.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Reke is missing layups because he doesn't have the lift or explosion due to INJURY.
It is not a bullshit excuse. Last year he was unstoppable going to the rim, and had an outrageous percentage of finishing in traffic at the rim. Suddenly he can’t? Ridiculous. Teams are packing the paint against Reke, and he’s failed to adjust or develop anything resembling a shot.
It is obvious Reke needs to be at the 2 and the Kings need a PG. I’m also very disturbed at PW’s seeming lack of reigning in or coming down on Reke.
i know
if you watch him you will notice he doesent use his eurostep anymore that enabled him to get to the rim avoiding the defenders i haven’t seen him use it once this season.
What's this eurostep you guys are always talking about?
Is it the shimmy move he used in the famous highlight against the Knicks last season?
That made me nervous too.
He already tends to have issues passing at the right times…now he doesn’t want to pass at all?
Oh boy.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
It's all just too much
There isn’t a bigger wreck in pro-sports right now. The Dallas Cowboys and 49ers issues have been nothing compared to the ridiculousness of the Sacramento Kings right now. There’s just nothing positive happening here that I can see. From the malaise of the players, the stubbornness of the coaching staff / front office, to the arena issues, I feel at such a loss with this franchise. I generally try to stay optimistic with a little humor, but there’s nothing to look forward to at this point other than some crazy turnaround that almost no one should anticipate. Asserting blame is beyond pointless, and unfortunately the best thing to do right now probably IS…..nothing.
SIGH
"Indiviual results may vary, see participating stores for details...."
Question to StR
Can we get a group discount on therapy couches?
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Dec 4, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We need a leget starting pointguard. Beno off the bench as the backup is great with me. I get the strainge feeling pooh is about to start alongside tyreke.
Other than getting the ball up court faster, Pooh doesn't offer much more than Beno
I’v watched him closely when he’s played. And, it seems that he’s running the offense just the same as the other NaPG’s. He gives up the ball too early, and usually to a big in the high post, and then heads to the weakside of the court. Or, he gets the ball in to Cousins or Landry too far from the blocks. As long as he’s running PW’s offense, he’s just going to look and react like all the rest.
But, I’m sure if he were allowed to create more on his own, he could be more effective than what we’ve seen so far.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I get the strainge feeling pooh is about to start alongside tyreke.
I get the strange feeling everyone playing alongside Tyreke, including all the starters are playing like Pooh.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
If Pooh is stinking up the floor, and you can't get him off the Wall,
it may be time to flush this season
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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
They should be in play the young guys mode.
Wins should be the least of their worries. Tyreke should go full Lebron and we can see what we have got.
Unfortunately for a coach on the hot seat
Wins are the most of their worries
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Especially when a large part of their salary comes from incentives.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
All the creative marketing the world...
Will not fill up the arena at this point. (I doubt giving the tickets away would help either)
The Maloof’s Spend-Thrift ways have finally caught up with them… and maybe it is all apart of surviving the looming lockout (good as guess as any right now) However one thing that struck me as odd was that I heard they broke even last year after complaining of losing money for the last few years… with such a crappy product, low attendance and all the discounts they broke even? Wow.. just goes to show how profitable the parking and concession business is.
All these moves show that cutting corners and dropping contracts for expiring ones was good for the Maloof’s and bad for the fans… hard to argue that point this season.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
They are using the Knick's rebuild strategy
but instead of waiting on LeBron to save them, they are waiting on the CBA to save them.
Until next year I will reserve my judgment of them and back them up. However, if next season they don’t make good, there will be some major questions for them to answer.
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
To be sure I understand this strategy
The Maloof’s are modeling themselves/this team after the Knicks, and with the lockout dead ahead of us… that means this season and next season are to be ugly and uglier, and three seasons from now we start a rebuilding process? Well… *switching mouth motor off
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
I like your avatar.
Brennan Huff: I have a belly full of white dog crap in me, and now you lay this shit on me?
Mostly just tearing your team apart in the hopes that one thing will salvage it all
I hope it ends better than the Knicks though (If you remember they did NOT get LeBron)
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 4, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Fire Westphal. Fire Westphal.
The team isn’t happy. Anyone had a job where there weren’t happy? What kind of work were you doing, compared to a job where you were into it? The boss in this situation is a bummer to almost everyone on the team. Horrible substitutions, chemistry killing, power-tripping and no system in place.
Even if he is coaching an offensive and defensive system the players aren’t retaining it because they’ve probably started to tune him out. The coach’s first responsibility is to resonate with the players. Good coaches put together a great system and game plan and resonate with the players. Right now Westphal is not doing either, and the players don’t like him.
Fire Westphal. I lived in Santa Monica while he was failing miserably at Pepperdine. He had multiple hall-of-famers on that Suns team and lucked out. In every other situation he’s been a failure.
Let Ellie take over and hire a good coach next year. Mark Jackson would be interesting or someone who’s not a retread but has respect. Maybe Ellie works out. All I know is that getting rid of Westphal makes the chemistry better on day one.
by mavisdory on Dec 4, 2010 11:20 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
To defend PW... (sort of)
The team quits on PW… THEY FUCKING QUIT ON ME AND YOU!
Millionaire’s playing a kids game cannot support the fans who pay their salaries by at least trying to put on a good show… then screw them! Maybe they all need to lose their jobs, maybe incentives should be based on MINIMAL performance to KEEP their fat ass salaries, not too make more. If they over achieve then by all means reward them, if they under perform, then be without a job (as it is in my world) SO SICK OF THIS TEAM and the leadership right now… *mouth motor engaged and set for rage…
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
I love how a blowout against the two time defending NBA Champions
means that the team has quit on PW. Yes, they quit last night when they were getting their butts kicked. Teams do that, and not only young teams. Blowouts happen all the time. But in the last two games before that, they played hard for anywhere from two to three quarters, before they screwed up for a quarter. If they have really given up on PW, wouldn’t they give up on all of their games? Wouldn’t they vocally complain about the coach?
Amazing how so many people are so sure that the Kings players have given up on PW. I predict right now that in the next couple of games (possibly even tonight) you will see a fired-up team going out and playing the best they’ve played all season. Then I wonder how many people will decide that maybe the players have not given up after all. And are just young and in some cases not all that good.
Also, those of you saying that we should play x, y, an z players every game because they are the obvious long term team, I have news. Other than Cuz and Evans (and Cuz is not even a sure thing) the players who will take us to the playoffs are not currently all on this team.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
So are you saying the Kings players are no longer trying in all of their games?
Because I don’t buy that at all. What I see is a team with most of its players having played for a year or less together, under a coach who has been with the team for less than a year. I see inexperience. I see frustration. I see a losing streak and a blowout. But I don’t see a single thing to convince me that all of this is PW’s fault. We game into this season knowing we were one of the ten worst teams in the NBA. Anyone who saw as as even a dark horse playoff team was deluded. The difference in our record and the team with the best record in the bottom ten is 2 games. That’s right two whole games between us and the Bobcats.
So yeah, we are not good, and should be playing better. But no one hear has a solution. Everyone screamed for Donte when he was on the bench. Now that we haven’t won with him, they are screaming for Omri. There is outrage that PW tried JT at the three. Did it ever occur to you that the reason he HAD to do that was that our current small forwards are playing like crap? Not because he thought it would be fun?
In our first few games we screamed for defense. When we got that, we screamed for offense. We wanted consistency, until PW consistently started Head, Reke, Donte, JT, and Sammy. And we’re still screaming for consistency, just a different consistency.
The truth of the matter is that there is no one fix to this team. Want to scream for something? Scream for experience. Because until we have that—and probably a couple more solid players it won’t matter jack who coaches this team. This is NOT a good team. It will NOT be a good team this year.
If, by the end of the season, we do not see growth we can look at changing our coach. But until then, firing PW or trading for another middle of the road point guard or small forward is going to bring nothing but more inconsistency.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
Sorry, I meant a coach who has been with the team for a little over a year.
But my point stands.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
I believe most of us are "Screaming for Experience"
We want 5 players to experience playing together for an entire quarter.
We want 5 players to help each other gain experience playing good defense
and run plays together to help each other get open shots and score.
Maybe Donte and Omri aren’t the answer, but trying JT at the 3 is just another example of PW giving up on development, and grasping for straws looking to the bench for answers. Instead he should be instilling confidence and imparting his knowledge to make the players he has better. There are no Kobe’s or Battier’s on the bench and he needs to be looking to himself instead of at the bench.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
But what five do you want?
The truth is that until Sammy’s injury, PW was consistently starting Reke, Head, JT, Greene, and Sammy. We got what we wanted. And we still aren’t happy. I personally couldn’t care less who starts, as long as our young guys are playing and getting experience. My biggest gripe with PW, and I do have them, is not who starts, but players getting no time because they appear to be in his dog house.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
by SavageBeast on Dec 4, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My biggest gripe is that he took Beno out of the starting lineup for more defense on a team that doesn't have the horses to play better defense.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well yes.
But, the Kings needed to get better defensively remember? That’s the problem with this team. 6 in 1 and half dozen in the other. There’s no clear solution until the players get better and more experienced. I wish there was another answer, but there isn’t. If you don’t like rebuilding, this team isn’t for you.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As Section and others have pointed out their isn't much difference between players
He could start any 5 he wants, just as long as they play together extended minutes. What gripes me is like in the LA game, Head starts and gets pulled 4 minutes into the game for Garcia. Didn’t PW know that Kobe was going to post up Head?
Just to get our young guys working together and learning to trust and help each other is all I want. Since the season is already a complete disaster, I’d play Cousins, JT, Casspi, Cisco and Tyreke. And, they’d all get 30+ mpg unless they fouled out. And, if one of them wasn’t getting his number called as much as I thought they should be I’d stop play and voice my displeasure.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you SB, honestly, just cuz you make sense doesn't mean you're wrong
The screamers will scream, the ranters will rant and hey h8ers gonna hate. If for no other reason than he makes a ton of rotational changes just about all the players/concepts the screamers have been screaming for have been tried and so far without the improvements they are so sure would result.
The only thing that is going to improve the Kings is time playing together. I wasn’t a fan of the Westphal selection but the one thing I’m sure of is, is that a coaching carousel never makes a team better, regardless of the sport. I haven’t seen this team quit on Westphal. They may not have the skill or experience to run his dumbed down offensive sets but they haven’t quit. What happened last night is no different than what happened to the Cavs after they had been slaughtered by LeBron. In light of a beat down just about all teams back off.
I believe that Westphal is going to get fired but I don’t believe that firing him 25% into the season is good for anybody. I have always been a believer that the rooks and young players have to earn their minutes but because there are no established vet starters here, he no choice but to play the kids for longer than they deserve or can handle.
So all we as fans can do is suck it up, look for improvements in the young players games and hope for the best. I can tell you for sure that whoever replaces Westphal will get maybe a 10 game honeymoon and then as the loses continue the screamers will be screaming, the ranters will be ranting and the h8ers are gonna be hating and calling for the new coaches head.
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
by Bluejohn on Dec 4, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the gray hair wisdom this comment is screaming of.
As usual, very thoughtful and well done BJ.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Back at you!
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
C'mon Savage.
Hey, I hear what you are saying, but this isn’t just about our losses vs. elite teams.
I am open-minded though. If they get blown out tonight – then what? The game after that?
I’m fine with people saying that they want to stick with PW for now (although I don’t agree with it), but what would it take for you to change your mind?
Maybe I just have lower expectations
Clearly I’m not going to convince anyone who wants to change coaches, but I just don’t think the benefits of changing coaches is enough to make that kind of decision just soon. I feel the same way about consistency in coaches that many of you do about consistency of players. As a Raiders fan, I watched the merry-go-round of coaches make the team more and more of a laughing stock with each news season.
One thing to consider. If we do change coaches after just over a season—firing PW within twenty games of granting him and extension—how excited are any top tier coaches going to be about coming here? I think that at this point in the season, Pw has at least as good a chance as any interim coach to turn things around. And if he doesn’t at least we can tell future coaching prospects that we gave him a fair chance.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
SB we talked about why the Kings fired Theus; Petrie felt he wasn't the answer.
He wanted to see what he had with the rest of the staff and Kenny Natt in particular. It wasn’t enough or what Petrie wanted. Hence Westphal.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Watch this play, it sums up the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCRQZMIdTPY
Despite having Kobe beat down the court, and an clear angle at the play, Donte stops and watches Kobe dunk. I have never been more embarrassed to be rooting for someone and a team that does that. Disgusting. That is the straw that knocks me off the team Donte bandwagon. Atleast Omri can play tough.
Cousins>Landry>Dally>Whitesides>JT
Maybe he's taking his cue from the teams star player.
but, yeah I know what your saying.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
What star players?
I get what your saying too.
Cousins>Landry>Dally>Whitesides>JT
Every post a different player (or two) is the focus of our anger.
Donte is an idiot, Casspi and Beno can’t play D, Reke isn’t trying, Cuz looks lost etc, etc. How is it possible that all the Kings players are bad/idiots? It really does seem to point to a system problem. A PW not getting through to the guys problem.
Either that or PW is just the latest focus for our anger
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
EXACTLY!
PW is my only focus for anger.
When a different group of players looks bad after every game, it is a coaching issue. Our personnel did not all get crappy overnight.
There are multiple culprits on that play
Donte is guarding Artest, the trailer. He knows if he goes at Kobe he’s just going to let Artest have a layup, as Kobe will certainly pass it. Also, there’s a decent chance he’d just give up an and-one, which would be worse than what he did. I don’t really have a problem with the way Donte played that.
The real culprit, IMO, was Tyreke Evans. Watch him just stand there basically hoping Kobe is going to think he’s Beno’s yeti and pass the ball away or something. Why is Tyreke not either fouling him or running back to play defense? He just stands there until Kobe passes him, then he runs back, trailing the play, and watches Kobe dunk. I am MUCH more disappointed in Tyreke’s effort on that play than Donte’s.
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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
At least once every home game Tyreke has turned the ball over and totally failed to get back on D
I mean, TOTALLY failed, as in walking up the court and stopping just past the half-court line watching his team defend 4 on 5. It’s the single most infuriating thing I’ve seen this season.
I hate that
I also hate that he and Cousins both seem to saunter down the court on both offense and defense quite often. THAT is something a coach should be handling. I do honestly believe that Westphal should immediately yank any player that halfheartedly jogs down the court either direction, including Tyreke Evans. That’s unacceptable for a professional basketball player.
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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 4, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
And that is the BIG ?...Talent or lack of decent coaching?
If the coaching is decent, at least we could see some improvement in players. Good coaches get the most out of players, and PW has not. Shit, some players have regressed. How is that possible? PW might have a better shot with a real PG, I’ll give you that. But I don’t think the talent is as crappy as the play.
On the other hand, maybe we are just Memphis.
Looks like some talent on the floor, but really just average crap put together.
We keep throwing out what team we are like
We are the next thunder. We are the next Knicks. I think the Grizz are not a bad example. They are actually becoming a decent team this year. But it is mostly by playing together a lot, and improving with experience.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
our starting point gaurd is a guy thats playing for the lowest salary
its no wonder we cant seem to get any wins, I don’t even think Luther Head would see the court on any other team and hes starting here. Even if his defense is alright he cant score last night he had 0 points that’s not gonna get it done, this team just does not have the talent right now.
Yea, on 3 shots in 14minutes, Beno had 4pts in 29:40 and Cisco had 3pts in 20 minutes
Clearly, Luther is not nor has he ever been a PG, isn’t that Tyreke’s job. And, who’s fault is it that we have no PG that can play defense? Luther has a better Assist Rate and less turnovers than anyone else we have to play that position other than Pooh.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
You make a good point.
This is one of those places where it is hard not to blame Petrie/Maloofs. I am actually FINE with continuing the Tyreke as PG experiment. It was yielding fairly decent results last year. Giving up on it is not the direction that I lean, however I am begrudgingly accepting of it with the condition that we have a good alternate – we don’t. THAT is horrible, let me repeat HORRIBLE front office planning.
The rumors are that we pursued Collison and Teague. How does this not happen if you are serious about using Tyreke at the two? What about Eric Maynor? Were we ever asleep at the switch last year when the Jazz were giving him away. This issue is a horrible reflection on our front office.
Collison would have been a nice fit alongside Tyreke too
they screwed up on that one,
prove it
It’s the players job to keep the coach happy, not the coach’s job to keep the player happy. - Paul Westphal quoted from The Purple Panjandrum
by Bluejohn on Dec 4, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL Rec'd for snarkynezz.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He is what he is....
To redeem the Spencer/Noce/Dalembert deal is to not resign Dalembert…
Not ready just yet to join Section and put in a vote for Frank,
but consider this a vote, if not the first vote, to not resign Dalembert.
He is burdening the rest of the players on the offensive end because he can’t keep his defender honest…his defense does not outweigh his offensive liability.
Next season you can start Cousins, Whiteside can play behind as a 4/5, and you can draft a Kanter, Plumlee, or Donatas as “insurance”.
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