To Natt, Or Not To Natt?
Inspired by Rik Smits (our Rik Smits, not Indiana's Rik Smits), I have gathered the following information as it pertains to in-season coaching changes. I went back over the past 10 years and listed the 42 coaching changes that have taken place during the season. Interesting(?) to note that only Detroit, Houston, Indiana, San Antonio and Utah have not changed coaches during the season over the past 10 years (nor has Charlotte in their 7 years of existence.
Decifer, disemminate, discuss and debate -
| Team | Year | Coach 1 | Record | Coach 2 | Record | Improved? |
| New Jersey | 2009 | Frank | 0-16 (0%) | Barrise(2)/Vandeweghe | 12-54 (18%) | Yes |
| New Orleans | 2009 | Scott | 3-6 (33%) | Bower | 34-39 (47%) | Yes |
| Memphis | 2008 | Iavaroni | 11-30 (27%) | Davis(2)/Hollins | 13-28 (32%) | Yes |
| Minnesota | 2008 | Wittman | 4-15 (21%) | McHale | 20-43 (32%) | Yes |
| Oklahoma City | 2008 | Carlesimo | 1-12 (8%) | Brooks | 22-47 (32%) | Yes |
| Philadelphia | 2008 | Cheeks | 9-14 (39%) | DiLeo | 32-27 (54%) | Yes |
| Washington | 2008 | Jordan | 1-10 (9%) | Tapscott | 18-53 (25%) | Yes |
| Chicago | 2007 | Skiles | 9-16 (36%) | Myers(1)/Boylan | 24-33 (42%) | Yes |
| Memphis | 2006 | Fratello | 6-24 (20%) | Barone | 16-36 (31%) | Yes |
| Miami | 2005 | S.VanGundy | 11-10 (52%) | Riley | 41-20 (67%) | Yes |
| Dallas | 2004 | Nelson | 42-22 (66%) | A.Johnson | 16-2 (89%) | Yes |
| Denver | 2004 | Bzdelik | 13-15 (46%) | Cooper(14)/Karl | 36-18 (67%) | Yes |
| Memphis | 2004 | Brown | 5-7 (42%) | Hollins(4)/Fratello | 40-30 (57%) | Yes |
| Minnesota | 2004 | Saunders | 25-26 (49%) | McHale | 19-12 (61%) | Yes |
| New Jersey | 2003 | Scott | 22-20 (52%) | Frank | 25-15 (63%) | Yes |
| New York | 2003 | Chaney | 15-24 (38%) | Williams(1)/Wilkens | 24-19 (56%) | Yes |
| Orlando | 2003 | Rivers | 1-10 (9%) | Davis | 20-51 (28%) | Yes |
| Atlanta | 2002 | Kruger | 11-16 (41%) | Stotts | 24-31 (44%) | Yes |
| Cleveland | 2002 | Lucas | 8-34 (19%) | Smart | 9-31 (23%) | Yes |
| LA Clippers | 2002 | Gentry | 19-39 (33%) | D.Johnson | 8-16 (33%) | Yes |
| Memphis | 2002 | Lowe | 0-8 (0%) | Brown | 28-46 (38%) | Yes |
| Chicago | 2001 | Floyd | 4-21 (16%) | Berry(2)/Cartwright | 17-40 (30%) | Yes |
| LA Clippers | 2009 | Dunleavy | 21-28 (43%) | Hughes | 8-25 (24%) | No |
| Phoenix | 2008 | Porter | 28-23 (55%) | Gentry | 8-13 (38%) | No |
| Sacramento | 2008 | Theus | 6-18 (25%) | Natt | 11-47 (19%) | No |
| Toronto | 2008 | Mitchell | 8-9 (47%) | Triano | 25-40 (38%) | No |
| Milwaukee | 2006 | Stotts | 23-41 (36%) | Krystkowiak | 5-13 (28%) | No |
| Minnesota | 2006 | Casey | 20-20 (50%) | Wittman | 12-30 (29%) | No |
| Seattle | 2005 | Weiss | 13-17 (43%) | Hill | 22-30 (42%) | No |
| Cleveland | 2004 | Silas | 34-30 (53%) | Malone | 8-10 (44%) | No |
| LA Lakers | 2004 | Tomjanovich | 24-19 (56%) | Hamblen | 10-29 (26%) | No |
| New York | 2004 | Wilkens | 17-22 (44%) | Williams | 16-27 (37%) | No |
| Orlando | 2004 | Davis | 31-33 (48%) | Jent | 5-13 (28%) | No |
| Portland | 2004 | Cheeks | 22-33 (40%) | Pritchard | 5-22 (19%) | No |
| Boston | 2003 | O'Brien | 22-24 (48%) | Carroll | 14-22 (39%) | No |
| Chicago | 2003 | Cartwright | 4-10 (29%) | Myers(2)/Skiles | 19-49 (28%) | No |
| Philadelphia | 2003 | Ayers | 21-31 (40%) | Ford | 12-18 (40%) | No |
| Phoenix | 2003 | F.Johnson | 8-13 (38%) | D'Antoni | 21-40 (34%) | No |
| Denver | 2001 | Issel | 9-17 (35%) | Evans | 18-38 (32%) | No |
| Golden St. | 2001 | Cowens | 8-15 (35%) | Winters | 13-46 (22%) | No |
| New York | 2001 | J.VanGundy | 10-9 (53%) | Chaney | 20-43 (32%) | No |
| Phoenix | 2001 | Skiles | 25-26 (49%) | F.Johnson | 11-20 (35%) | No |
149 comments
|
7 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If you don't draw my conclusions
how will I know what to think?
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Dec 4, 2010 1:34 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
As it is slightly better than 50/50 proposition...
…why wouldn’t you fire Westphal? He is the ‘losingest’ coach in Kings’ history.
by Hoops Mike on Dec 4, 2010 1:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
BTW - Thanks for the work here...
This is a really valuable piece of information.
22-20 but for the Kings it's 0-1 so we're 100% sure that our record would
be worse if we made a change.
Now in Sactown
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 4, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Sacramento history
Thanks to the awful teams of the late ’80’s and early ’90’s, the Kings have switched coaches in-season 6 times in their 25 seasons here. The score is 3-3.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Number crunching
Totaled, the 42 teams listed averaged a 14-20 record (41%) prior to changing coaches, and an 18-30 record (38%) after changing coaches. The average change took place 34 games into the 82 game season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
More number crunching
Looking only at the teams that were winning a third of their games or less prior to making a change, 14 teams averaged a 5-18 record (21%) prior to changing coaches, and an 18-41 record (30%) after changing coaches. The average change took place 23 games into the 82 game season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Where are you getting your data Section?
and thanks for it. It does give some perspective on the situation.
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
Thanks, Section
So 25 out of 45 improved their record.
Taking into account that our current record is at .235, it seems the odds are we won’t do much worse (unless we hire Natt); Only 5 times did the replacements have a record under .22. (5 out of 42, those are odds I’m willing to take).
Dunking Dutchman
I have it at 22 improved, 20 did not when reviewing it on the numbered spreadsheet
Your mileage may vary.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I like how Natt was the worst one on the list
I’m giving Pritchard a break since he played less games and the difference is like .4 %.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Amen.
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Dec 4, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
None of the teams that didn't get better were as bad as the Kings to start with
and 9 of the teams that were as bad or worse than the Kings did get better.
What really is surprising is how many teams chose to change coaches with a record of 45% or better. 14 in total.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yes
If you were to number crunch the 10 worst on the list, you would have a 3-17 record before (15%) and a 17-45 record after (27%). As you would expect, the average firing date moves up – 20 games in. If these numbers proved to be prophetic, the Kings would be 5-15 at PW’s dismissal, and their 17-45 finish would put them at 22-60 for the season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Of course,
what is not considered here is the record of all of the coaches that were not fired after a slow start.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The saddest (and maybe only) fact gleaned from all of this?
It’s the same group of guys rotating from one high-paying gig to the next. Even for awful teams, they just keep hiring guys with track records that aren’t exactly stellar. If your team is awful, and you can’t get a legend, think outside the box instead of getting another retread.
And with that being said, firing Westphal would be horribly premature.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Isn't getting another retread what we did and a cheap one at that.
I doubt know about you, but if I were to get a blowout on a retread, I’d replace it with a new one.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Reply fail to andy
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
More fun with stats!
The Sacramento Kings have changed coaches during the season six times. The average record prior to making the change is 13-28. The average record after making the change is …13-28. The average timing for the change happens at the exact halfway point of the season.
Why does this somehow make sense?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Maybe because they waited too long, and the new guy didn't have time to implement changes
Sure it could have had a lot to do with the players, but sometimes averages don’t tell the whole story. How many of those replacements came from the original coaches staff?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Oh, and how many of those teams made roster changes after the change?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Everybody makes roster changes.
Could you define what a roster change is because, well I feel anyway, that “roster change” is pretty ambiguous by definition.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No it's not.
Roster change is pretty clear, by definition. Say one day you print out the roster. If at some point after that you print out the roster and it looks different than the first print out, you’ve conclusively arrived at a “roster change.” Unless of course you’ve come across a unique “Ocho Cinco” situation, or Lamar changes his last name to Kardashian. Then yeah, I guess there’s some ambiguity there if that counts as a roster change, but for some reason for our purposes I think we can ignore the influence of those situations, honestly.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
Most of the successful situations were teams that were underperforming with another head coach and performed with another head coach around.
Stan Van Gundy for Pat Riley. I’d take either of those 2 guys (even though I hate Riley) over Westphal. They aren’t around. I’d take Avery Johnson over Westphal, but, again, he isn’t available (and wouldn’t have coached for what the Kings were offering).
Some of the improvements were Lawrence Frank who had Jason Kidd. That situation doesn’t exist here. I mentioned Carleismo in another thread, but I"ll mention it here for posterity. Say whatever you want about Brooks, PJ Carleismo played Kevin Durant at SG for defensive purposes, and if you can’t figure out the stupidity in that logic, well, you’re PJ Carleismo. The point is Scott Brooks made the Thunder a better team by making a simple move. Sam Presti used a draft pick gained from San Antonio to acquire Thabo Sefalosha. Long & short, the Kings don’t have the numerous amount of assets Sam Presti had when he came to Seattle as the GM. I’m not taking anything from Presti; I’m pointing out that Presti has done a terrific job maximizing his assets. People are forgetting that this Kings team doesn’t have the talent that last year’s Thunder team had (starting with Durant). It’s just the way these things go sometimes.
All I know is that the problems with this team mainly revolves around the difficulties and nearly impossible moments of playing youth in the NBA. There are exceptions, but not many. People point to OKC, but the fact is a lot of things went right for them too. Plus, it’s worth remembering that this is Tyreke’s 2nd season, and Durant didn’t lead OKC to the playoffs until his 3rd season.
I was hoping this team would make a playoff run. I was expecting more wins and competitive basketball early on. No question I was expecting that. But at some point we have to recognize that these young guys, many of whom are NBA players, aren’t quite ready to come together as a group and become winners that the NBA requires players to be. How Paul Westphal factors into that is a matter of opihion, but 214’s opinion is the one i agree with most: Paul Westphal is a caretaker. Until he shows otherwise, I’ll keep saying that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Carleismo = Westhpal?
I couldn’t help but think of Westphal’s experiment with JT at the 3 when you talked about Carleismo playing Durant out of position. Sometimes Westphal seems obsessed with height.
I picture him in the looking at a chart that shows all of his players are taller than the opposing team’s matchup and thinking “we got this one!”
Durant played the bulk of his rookie season and the start of his 2nd season at SG under Carleismo.
JT has played nowhere near a comparable amount of time under Theus, Natt and Westphal in that scenario.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Culture shock
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Dec 4, 2010 3:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Culture shock
I think more than a coaching change is needed. I think an overall front office cleaning should precede any coaching changes.
Anyone up for letting Petrie move on and letting Pritchard take his spot?
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Dec 4, 2010 3:30 PM PST via mobile reply actions
No. Petrie just got another contract and what do you think Pritchard can do that Petrie can't?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Petrie is fine
i hold the maloofs responsible for this mess. they are trying to this on the cheap. should have never fired Rick Adleman. lets face it, the kings are just a bad organization right now. as for PW, he’s not getting through to this team and they are not developing. someone made the comment that are bigs are not getting better. ( you could that for the whole team) but i think cousins is the key…..NOT Tyreke. You can not win without a dominate big guy….YES westphal needs to go before this team totally implodes….
Respectfully disagree
I do hold Petrie responsible – at least as responsible as he was for building the great team of the early 2000’s. But I think to replace him would be premature. He had to deconstruct before he could reconstruct. It is a process that takes time.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It takes a season to deconstruct.
And a couple more seasons to rebuild. This is the 2nd season in that rebuild. Impatience thy Kings fan. (Or at least lately.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
but
he has done things under the order of the magoofs….he did not support the firing of RA and he’s made trades under the financial guidlines given to him by the two morons. but, i respect your opinion !
You undermine your argument when you call the Maloof's "Magoof". Just sayin....
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Source regarding Adelman?
So, according to you, the issue is that the Maloof brothers wouln’t let him spend money, while others that don’t like the job that he has done point to the overspending on guys like ’Reef, Garcia, Beno, Martin…
I am confused.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That's something you have in common with all Kings fans.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fully, fully agree
it’s not like our team has no talent. It’s just that our best talent is all 22 and under (Evans, Cousins, Greene, Casspi).
We also will have a ton of cap space for trades/signings.
We have tradeable assets and no albatross contracts.
The rebuild is going very well. We all wanted this, now part of getting back to respectability involves going through this pain.
The Pritchard that picked Oden over Durant?
Or the Pritchard that spent assets to move up to waste a pick on Jerryd Bayless?
Or the Pritchard that completely ignored Brandon Roy’s knee issues?
Or the Pritchard that ran afoul of the NBA for this tampering of Darius Miles?
Or the Pritchard that couldn’t get Portland past the 1st round of the playoffs?
For the record, I like Pritchard. But do you see how easy it is to pick at the GM cadaver?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
It's all Pritchard's fault he couldn't make Greg Oden have any confidence in his body after a dehabilitating string of injuries.
What an idiot.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For the record,
Pritchard would be on my short list if Petrie left, but even the good NBA GM’s are a key player injury away from obscurity. Look at Morey in Houston – he’s gone from the penthouse to the outhouse in less than a full season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Morey's an idiot. How dare he not make Yao play 40 mins every night out?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
moreys not an idiot
that team will make the playoffs. also, they have lots of assets to work with.
I did not say that he was an idiot
I said that the public opinion of him has done a 180 since last year.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you ever get emails telling you that you're an idiot? Or that you believe keeping Paul Westphal is hurting the team because it is undermining the players confience as NBA players?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How did the firing of Reggie Theus/hiring of Kenny Natt
help the Kings franchise?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Logic doesn't apply here.
Don’t you know the only qualification to be a Kings fan these days is acting like the sky is falling on you and that the team will continue to lose until PW is fired?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
it did not
but then again…..the maloofs hired on the cheap….see a pattern here ? Rambis would have been a better choice over PW. again…..would not commit to him for 3 years so he went to Minnesota.
Why would Rambis be a better choice?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
if for any reason the work he did with bynum. bynum credits rambis for really teaching him how to play in the nba. i think he would do a better job with cousins and thompson. just my opinion.
There's a difference between coaching individuals and coaching a team
If Rambis were running this show, I’m just not sure he’d be getting anything more out of this group.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
But we don't have Bynum
And Bynum is not producing. And Kevin Love would not exactly sing Rambis’ praises.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
if PW does not turn it around fast
all hell is going to break loose. then we will run the risk of players wanting out…
Panic Attack alert! Panic Attack alert!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Although Love is putting up big numbers lately.
I don’t think Love wants out as he just wanted more minutes. What Rambis wanted was better effort and defense from Love. Both had a quality argument me thinks.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
the dude
averaging 22 and 15 he may not like rambis, but he’s playing pretty well
In spite of Rambis, not because of him
I’m out on this discussion. The thought that a guy with a sub 200 winning percentage is the answer for our team is causing me to lose my few remaining brain cells.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Booo Hiss.
You have brain cells; just not the kind that makes you think that firing Paul Westphal is the answer. Your brain cells aren’t lost, but merely an old collection of ass kissing thoughts.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I wouldn't have fired Rick Adelman. Of course, the Maloof's didn't exactly fire Adelman. They just didn't offer him a contract.
But there is also 2 sides and it’s quite possible Adelman didn’t want to coach for the Maloof’s any longer.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
maybe
but, he’s a pretty good coach. and last time I checked, it was the last time we had one as well.
Yes. But I'm failing to understand what your point is with this last comment.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or more accurately...how it pertains to what I said.
I already well know, and believe for that matter, that letting go RA was a mistake. As I said, though, it takes 2 to tango and the full story with Adelman isn’t as clear as some of us would prefer.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm very confused by you Pookey
You say that firing Adelman was a mistake, and that it takes two to tango. But I thought there were no mistakes in the tango?
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on Dec 6, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Well the Kings & Adelman didn't tango.
So in fact, that’s still true.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
the point being
maybe RA did not want to be here. Maybe he did. I am not going to pretend like i have the inside track .Given the financial restraints this team seems to be operating under. I would not want to here either.
what would you do
Keep PW….? that’s your solution….More of the same. you like to do a lot of sniping. But what would you do ?
I'd keep PW to the end of the season....
…and then re-evaluate at the end of the season as to whether a new coach is needed.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What the hell are you smoking?
the point being
maybe RA did not want to be here. Maybe he did. I am not going to pretend like i have the inside track .Given the financial restraints this team seems to be operating under. I would not want to here either.
What financial restraints were going on back then. The Kings were thinking about offering Phil Jackson a Kings ransom to leave LA and had a huge salary. Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
and then made a big offer to Stan Van Gundy a year later
seriously, what the hell are you thinking?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
and ??
we hired bill musslemen. you are pretty funny…..
actually we hired Theus instead of Stan Van Gundy
and it wasn’t because of money either and you either know that and are just choosing to ignore or don’t really know what you are talking about.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
whatever wally
the kings hired mussleman then hired theus…..so this bs about offering phil jackson the kings ransom is pretty darn laughable. that would have never happend. personally, i think you just want to argue….
Just don't say stupid stuff and I won't argue with you
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 5, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the other big name interviewed
John Whisenant …..Yep the monarchs head coach….that was the other big name interviewed.
Bill Musselman has been dead for a decade
Just an FYI. He may still have done a better job than his son, but that’s strictly conjecture on my part.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Yes -
Rambis has been lighting it on fire in Minnesota – 19-82 since his hiring.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
How is it even possible for a coach to have a worse winning percentage than Paul Westphal? I thought PW was the devil incarnate.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Does not compute
Rambis would have been a better choice over PW.
Now in Sactown
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 4, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Are you seriously in the 916?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not you. Kfan.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yes, I am
Until just after Christmas
Now in Sactown
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 4, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
Cool.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'll be sure to lock my doors at night. :)
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
So what about last year's pathetic Wolves roster? Why did Rambis work his magic with that team?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The T-Wolves
have a worse record and a larger margin of defeat than the KIngs, so I’m not sure how they are “competing” more than the KIngs.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Any team that has David Kahn anywhere near it shouldn't even be included. They are only a team because the NBA says so!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And how do you know the Kings players don't believe in PW?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
do you watch the games ?
look at the rockets ( i’m a Martin fan) when that team struggled, they played hard every night. they believe in adleman’s system. the kings do not play hard. look at the clipper game. let alone the laker game. does this looks like a team that’s buying into PW’s system….? not to me. even PW looks like he going to jum off a bridge. whatever he’s selling, these guys are not buying.
And how do you know the Kings players not believe in PW?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I e-mail him everyday just to say that he's an idiot
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
As you should.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Really?
Clearly Morey is not an idiot.
But isn’t he falling into the same “fail to rebuild” trap we did for a few years.
His desirable assets for going after a star: Brooks, NY pick, Martin (?), Hill
His veteran assets that might get a middling young player or late pick from a contender: Scola, Martin, Lowry, Battier
Sorry, but that’s not exactly lots of assets to work with. I don’t think he’s getting a franchise cornerstone with the players listed above. And the Rockets are just veteran and talented enough they would need astronomical luck to get a Top 3 pick in the lottery.
I’m just not seeing what you are.
Reke'd
Because I agree with you about liking Pritchard, but it is way too easy to pick on every GM in the league.
I am not advocating for Pritchard,
I just feel that a coaching change is the quick fix, whereas Petrie is ultimately responsible for the talent on this team, including the coaches, second only to the Maloofs, and they aren’t getting fired.
Remember, Petrie is the one who signed Shareef, K9, Beno, Garcia, and Martin, the man who allowed a slow slip into mediocrity over a complete rebuild when it should have happened 5 years ago.
He is an excellent drafter, but his mindset (“offense is the problem, not defense”) and his lack of ability to change with the times regarding stats seem to be glaring problems to me.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
Sorry, he didn't sign K9
just a bad trade.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
So keeping Chris Webber would have helped this team?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Letting one of Sactown's heroes finish his contract here
would have been quicker and better for morale than K9 padding his bank account and his seat on the bench
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
So you think a gimpy and angry Webber would have been good for morale?
You’re telling me a Webber who didn’t want to let go that he was a superstar was a good thing for the Kings? You’re saying a guy who wasn’t the rebounder he was before (and that’s saying something considering that Webb was never a great boardman) and a guy who wasn’t the defender he was before was worth keeping for morale? You’re saying a guy who would take more J’s because that was the best shot he could get was worth keeping for morale?
The Kings had plenty of problems after trading Webber, but I have never thought for a single moment that trading Webber was a mistake. In fact, I’m still impressed that Billy King and the Sixers were willing to take him.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn Eduardo Najera!
That is all I have to say about that.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Dec 4, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL Ice.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think you should be fired for not sliding your foot under Webbers' foot at 157% effort level.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Your last paragraph
Crystalizes my thoughts on that exactly, except I’d replace impresses with incredulous because I figured there’d be no way we could trade him with his salary and injury issues.
Incredulous is probably a better use there than "impressed". Good call outrider. Although to admit, I'm also impressed AND incredulous that a deal was done.
Maybe that’s a better way to state it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm too lazy to look it up
But do you remember offhand how many years Web had left on his contract at the time we traded him?
He had 3 1/2 years left.
And about 62 million left if I remember the money right. Bad bad contract to have for a guy who was steadily declining and still thought he was a superstar.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As was I.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
See this is my point (and I dare say 214's although I'll let him state whatever he wants--I just feel confident he & i see very nearly eye to eye on this)....
…there isn’t a quick fix Ice. If there was, I’d be all for it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree. My point is that, overall, there is perhaps more wrong with this team than just Westphal
and I don’t think the front office should be exempt from blame.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
We agree on that Ice.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To be also clear....214 does what he wants. Bad way to state that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Um -
The team is currently ranked 29th out of 30 in offense. Maybe he was on to something here.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That is why the auto industry needed a bailout, they make crap like the
“GM cadaver”!
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Dec 4, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The first round of the playoffs
Looks awful good right now.
"Not new here and there is a core that believes they have the only opinion that matters, and they feel that their opinions are the only correct ones. ... Go against the grain and have an opinion different than the rest of the good ole boy club and they come out swinging trying to dismantle you and your opinions… and not in a mature debate fashion either, like elementary school."
It's not easy to be a Kings fan right now
There’s not even much argument that our GM and head coach have underperformed of late – but the best reason any of us can think of to keep them around is that there’s nobody better to replace them.
How sad is that?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Agreed 100%
Not a lot to hang your hat on in regards to this team right now.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree with this Otis.
There isn’t much positive to say about this team at the moment. All I can say (and keep repeating it in hope that things improve) is that hopefully the growing pains lead to a better tomorow.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yep
What’s the other option, jumping ship? Not gonna do it.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I ain't gonna be a Laker or Thunder fan just because they're winning.
I’m a Kings fan cuz I wanna be, and cuz I’m a Sac native. Some things are just done for reasons that come closer to masochism than reasons that make sense.
Any Kings fan can choose to jump ship, but I refuse to lose my optimism that a team with loads of cap space, many talented young players (even one’s that don’t necessarily fit together), and a team with plenty of options after the draft (which may produce another high pick that would prove valuable) has a future.
Then again, I’m just crazy anyway.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Interesting facts I gleamed from the list
Ok, so a few people have pointed out that overall teams improved with the new coach. However, the list gives us very little about the player development or long-term health of the team.
One thing I did notice about the list is of the changes on the list, only 5 changes led to a better long term change (Brooks, D’Antoni, Frank, Johnson and Karl). And one of those was a clear mentorship where they had been grooming Johnson to take over.
So in the other 37 cases, the teams were right back at square 1 after the season and now their players were going to at least their 3rd coach in less than a year.
We may need to get red of Westphal, but unless the situation turns poisonous or Petrie really believe Ellie could be the next great coach, I’d rather wait till the offseason to make a move.
One last thing:
To Natt, Or Not To Natt?
Never. If you combine this with Will Solomon, I might kill myself on principle.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
uh oh, Pookey said a no-no word
Never. If you combine this with W!!! Sol!!!!n,
You’re in trouble now. Big trouble. I’m telling Aykis on you.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 5, 2010 12:21 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah I suck. Sue me.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Carried this a little further
I wondered how teams that changed coaches mid-season would compare to teams that did not over the course of a full season. Posted here.
"This season is another learning process for this team. There is no segment of the schedule that looms larger than the sum of the season, in my opinion."
Section 214
All this is inconclusive.
Half the time you change it gets better, and half the time you do nothing it gets better.
Forget about the statistics, If the players want him gone, he’s gone.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It's up to the Maloof's and noone else.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Charles Barkley is interested in a GM spot
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
thats awesome
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
by nothingbutnet on Dec 4, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
On the move
The Kings @ 4-14 are the worst team in the NBA. The Clippers are better with Blake Griffin, even though they have 3 more losses. The talent should indicate that this team is better than 1 win, 13 losses in their last 14 games, but perhaps not? Assuming we do not improve upon last years woeful season, I think Westphal needs to go. Yes the team is still playing hard, but our record s/b better with than just 4 wins all year if you consider the talent on this roster. That said, it is clear to me that w/out a new arena (and that is doubtful) the Kings will move to another city to get a newer arena with more luxury boxes and a larger fan base to build upon. I certainly don’t blame any fan for not supporting this product (I don’t) but I can see no logical reason why or how the Maloof’s will stay in Cowtown.

by 

















