Dalembert vs. Chandler
by Smills91 on Feb 1, 2010 8:04 AM PST
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Rumors have been circulating for months now about the Kings interest in a defensive minded anchor at the 5 position. Two of the main rumors have been 1) Dalembert for Kenny Thomas and the other Emeka Okafor for Kenny Thomas. However, with the latest rumor for Sam Amick in the Sacramento Bee including one of the Charlotte Bobcats bigs(Chandler, Mohammed, Diop, Ajinca) being available for either JT(YEAH RIGHT - even though he's been sucking of late) or the expiring deal of Kenny F. Thomas.
I've been thinking about this for some time and view both Dalembert and Chandler as very similar impact(DEFENSE and FINANCES) for the Kings, but yet very DIFFERENT players on the court for providing that same role.
For starters, both are owed roughly 12.5 million dollars next year and then expire at the conclusion of the 2010-2011 season. Both players would prevent the Kings from being players in the 2010 FA class, but would then make the Kings bigger players in the 2011 FA class.
Samuel Dalembert's main strengths are the he's an EXCELLENT Shot Blocker, actually ranked #2 overall in the NBA after Mr. Dwight Howard. He's a very good free throw shooter for a big man at 84% for the year and he's a relative iron man in missing very games throughout his career(having played in all but 26 games since his 3rd season from being drafted, currently been 9 years since being drafted).
The downside to Sammy is that he's got a VERY limited offensive game, a reputation for dumber than bricks basketball IQ and poor hands for catches passes in traffic.
As far as rebounding goes, he averages 6.6 DRPG and 3.0 ORPG to total 9.6 RPG
In terms of advanced statistics Sammy gets 13.1% of the ORB% and 30.0% of the DRB% which averages to a 21.5% in TRB%
His TOV% is 19.6% and his EFF ranking is +16.21
Now for Tyson Chandler isn't quite the shotblocker that Daly is, and in fact at just 1.2 bpg he's probably pretty close to the mean amongnst centers. It's rather pedestrian. He does have the reputation of being an excellent post defender though, in that he's excellent in man-to-man defense. He isn't labeled with a poor basketball IQ perse and he's got more size (7'1 vs. 6'11) than Daly.
He's also limited offensively, like Dalembert, but he's a terrible FT shooter at being below 60% each of the past 4 seasons(he's currently at 72% on the year with limited games/FTA's so I'm throwing that # out).
Tyson averages 2.2 ORPG and 4.8 DRPG for a total of 7 RPG.
In terms of advanced statistcs Tyson gets 10.6% of the ORB% and 22.2% of the DRB% for a combined total of 16.4% TRB% His TOV% is 27.8% and his EFF is +10.16.
So when comparing the two players head to head, it's my conclusion that Sammy D. is the better fit and the better player, the one variable is the TK in his clause that would cause the Kings to pay 3.5 million more( I believe) if he were to be traded, which could be largely off-set by the Sixers giving the Kings 3 million(Max cash that can be traded) leaving the TK balance at just .5 million for the Kings.
My mindset going into this exercise was that I preferred Tyson to Daly, but the stats, especially the advanced stats show that Sammy would be the better player for our roster needs at roughly the same price and commitment.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Nice work
Dalembert seems to be a significantly better player than most presume (me included).
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Yeah, exactly what happened with my thoughts on the two...
In fact, defensively speaking, Daly’s on par with Okafor. I think the difference is that Okafor has a low post move or two that he can use, whereas Daly basically will only face-up and hit a short mid-range jumper, or get his points from put-backs, dunks, and layins. But for the money differnce I think Daly’s trumps.
Recd
Good post. Even if all stats were equal, which they are not, I would choose the guy who has been healthy. If we end up keeping the guy long term, you want a player who is going to be avaialable. Esp, if he is your starting center.
I’ve been hoping we’d make a move for D for a while.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
I don't see how the 76ers move Dalembert
I think people are really forgetting to factor in the Haiti stuff here. On off days, Dalember has been flying down there and then shows up for game time and leaves. I would think teams dealing for him would be a bit nervous about whether or not he is going to be gelling with the team if he is not taking the team plane and not practicing and only showing up for game time. Also, the 76ers might look like real bastards for trading him when he does not want to be traded. Maybe the 76er fans won’t care but the general public might trash them, plus other players might be nervous about ever signing with the team when they are willing to trade a player of theirs in the middle of a personal crisis such as what Dalembert is going through (it’s like trading Divac during the whole Bosnian war thing). Finally, I would think the 76ers won’t be trading dalembert anyway unless they can move another big contract because they have no centers (unless you are counting speights who does not have the best relationship with brand at the moment).
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 1, 2010 9:27 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Good point Wally Wagon
Dally has more important things on his mind than helping a 15-30 team. Basketball may be an escape for him right now, but his heart can’t be in it.
Read between the lines, Kings fans. When Geoff says he wants a player who gives him bang for his buck, that crosses Chandler and Dalembert off the Kings Most Wanted List. Their salaries are too excessive for the skills they bring. And also add we have taken ourselves out of playoff contention the last month. If we were within whiffing distance of the 8th seed, then maybe we overpay.
I would say too if we are going to shell out big dollars, we want a player who will generate excitement and enthusiasm, and put some butts in the seat. Okafor, Chandler and Dalembert will not make a dent in attendance or get the turn stiles rolling.
This is why I would tend to lean towards an acquisition of AK-47 or Iggy if we assume a lot of dough. We fill a big need which is improve defensively and acquire star ability, and the fans will be excited to see either of these guys play.
I do not envision Geoff including Kevin or Spencer in any serious trade talks. I think JT, Noce, and K9, Beno, and Sergio are all available.
putting JT on the block is madness
unless we’re talking about an Al Jefferson or Amare. You don’t trade 23 year olds with two and a half years left on their rookie deals because they’re in a sophomore slump. You just don’t.
You obviously don't give JT away
but if a good enough deals comes along, he’s expendable. We are talking about NBA foul leader, with bad hands, no post game, and serious mental blocks. That’s a lot to work through for a 4 year college player and guy who never missed an NBA game. Everyone wants to envision what players can be, instead of who they are. A some point you have to accept what is. I am not saying he won’t improve, he’s just not showed enough flashes to be worthy of high regard. Even before the slump, he was not all that convincing of a player.
I’ll take Iggy, and would do this deal in heartbeat:
To SAC
Iggy
To PHI
JT
K9
Armstrong
Wellllllllll
There aren’t many veteran Centers in this league who aren’t overpaid, due to the lack of them, nowadays. I’ve come to the conclusion that the only player Kings fans would want, with a combination of both offense and defense, is Chris Bosh. Outside of that, I really don’t know who you’d want to pick up, not named Yao Ming (or some other future hall of famer, of the sorts).
Pretty much everyone else that the Kings can pick up will have a bunch of question marks associated with their salaries. If the Kings want a good-all around Center, they’d need to give up a lot more than just K9 or Noc or Sergio or Hilton Armstrong.
Sorry guys, the league doesn’t work out that way, unless you’re dealing with Memphis’ GM.
Well...
I’m saying that if we don’t want to part with any player of value, on the team, we will end up with a Chandler or a Dalembert (tops). …And the previous poster was sort of arguing against the aquisition of those guys.
While it is true
there is not a lot big man options, that doesn’t mean you concede to that reality, and go pursue some middling whack player just to fill a need. It is not wise to trade from a position of desperation. And there is no urgency the rest of this year, unfortunately (see standings). The goal is not to be a .500 team. To me, Okafor, Dalembert, Chandler at best, can anchor a .500 team. In other words, they get you an 8th seed and a 1st round exit. How long would we be satisfied with that?
I might try to make a run at a guy like Gortat from the Magic, although I know that would be a tough trade to finagle. And back up the truck for Bosh, in the off-season, no matter how long of shot. The big guy from Kentucky, DeMarcus Cousins looks like an intriguing low post player, I am sure the Kings are watching him closely.
Kings fans may not want to hear it, but it may be another 12 months before we adequately address our front court needs. Patience and calculated risk taking with high payoff is better a course of action than committing to mediocre talent, and I am sure this will be course of action Geoff takes.
actually
We’ll be extremely fortunate if 12 months from now our big man situation is addressed. Its not impossible, but having our existing bigs grow up that fast or having a rookie make that big an impact would be unexpected at least.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Sixers GM Ed Stefanski has said publicly that Haiti the earthquake isn’t a factor in whether or not they trade Dalembert.
On the flip side, they’ve been trying to move him since Feb – 2008
by jemagee on Feb 2, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I think it factors into his trade value though
I would find teams looking to acquire him being pretty nervous about it. Do you think the 76ers would dump dalembert just for K-9?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
I don’t think any team is going to be nervous about acquiring Dalembert because of his Haitian background…it’s kind of silly to worry about.
I think the sixers would trade him for Kenny Thomas and his expiring contract sure.
Did Geoff Petrie take a bat to the head and get very stupid?
by jemagee on Feb 3, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
the only reason i asked about dalembert just for k-9 ...
is that i think that would be the only trade the Kings would be willing to offer and i figured the 76ers wouldn’t be willing to just do that. So yes, if the 76ers were willing to do that, i think there would be a chance that the kings would do it.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
These are great stats - Nazr Mohammed?
Would you mind doing some analysis for Nazr Mohammed? Personally, I think he might be the best bang for your buck, but I’d like to see a statistical breakdown. You have to like a big that spent his young NBA years learning from Tim Duncan.
His PER is over 21 this year, which is really good
The only downsides to Mohammed are:
1) age: 33
2) you have to presume he’d take assets to get, if he’s available for expirings its tough to not want him, even if he isn’t perfect.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Charlotte's a playoff team
You don’t give up performing bigs when you’re striving to make the playoffs.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
You might since Nazr is an older veteran and only plays 15 MPG
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think Pookey is right here
earlier in the year it might have flown but . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
It might be worth a try to get him and unload Kenny Thomas
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Kenny Thomas contract expires after the season.
The Kings don’t have to make a move here. They can wait until the off-season and figure that’s the best time to make a deal.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I am just saying
…Charlotte has expressed an interest in KT. We could trade him off now and possibly get Nazr.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Nazr is someone we can actually use...
Rather than KT who spends most of his time warming the bench.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
You're missing the point.
Charlotte wants an expiring contract. So does 30 teams in the NBA. That doesn’t mean a deal is imminent because Charlotte “has expressed interest”.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Here's an example of a deal that the Kings could absolutely try.
Hilton Armstrong for Alexis Ajinca. (Salary cap gurus step back. I’ll explain why it works even though it doesn’t on the trade machines.) Charlotte has a 3.3 million trade exception that they can use to acquire Armstrong’s salary, and Sac has enough salary cap room to absorb Ajinca’s salary on the whole even though they would be decreasing salary by 1.5 million.
That’s the type of deal I can see each team be willing to do. But that’s me.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I'll defer to you on this one.
You are the salary cap guru.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
It doesn't work?
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 1, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
No it doesn't.
It takes some creativity to make the deal work.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I take that back
You did do it right. Clearly my skills with the Trade Machine are not what they should be.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
True
But,
“The Bobcats may also have interest in the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas ($8.7 million this season), as he has been highly regarded by Charlotte coach Larry Brown since they were together in Philadelphia.” Sam Amick, Sacramento Bee
My point is that Charlotte also likes KT because of other factors than just his expiring contract.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Charlotte can like me for all you care.
It doesn’t mean a trade is imminent. If I had to bet, I’ll bet an Ajinca for Armstrong deal is the best bet for a move if any happens.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
The whole (Bob)cat vs. K9 dynamic?
by betweentheeyes on Feb 1, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the point
is that Charlotte has way too much invested in the center position. Who knows which of their guys they’re willing to part with, but I don’t see why Pookey is so adamant it will not be Nazr.
He is a bit older than we’d prefer, but if he just has 1.5 years on his contract, that’s definitely not an issue.
That doesn't mean the Kings want to use Kenny Thomas or Jason Thompson as the way to get a deal done.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
That is true, but these are the guys Charlotte expressed an interest in acquiring
I would hope that the Kings wouldn’t use JT as a way to get the deal done.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I would be shocked if any deal was done.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Me too, but we are just exploring possibilites...
even if they are remote.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Even if we got Nazr, he is not the answer to our prayers.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Nazr's contract expires in 2011.
It’s not the cap clogger that people are saying it is. DeSagana Diop he is not.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
right on point, no way they are giving up any value.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 1, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Dalembert is a stiff.
Chandler has bad feet.
Answer? Look elsewhere.
by sactown on Feb 1, 2010 11:33 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for simplicity
but not very constructive
by betweentheeyes on Feb 1, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
If they do trade for Dalemburt or Chandler...
what big FA will be available for 2011 free agency?
what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!!!
Just to be contrary
I don’t want either of those guys. I’d like a younger guy, who may not be developed, but could be added to the mix longer term.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Of the 'young vets'
I’d still be good with Okafor as well. I think he’s underrated and would be great with Reke. Can he play PF? Thats a question for some who have seen him more.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 3, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Dalembert
Hands down
Proficiency ratings:
Dalembert = 28.0 (w/ 3.4 blocks per 40)
Chandler = 21.8 (w/ 1.8 blocks per 40)
Tyson shoots the ball less per 40 minutes but gives you less on defense. Both players are about the same age. Sorry, I think this is an absolute no brainer. Dalembert is better overall.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Don't we have to include someone else?
To make the contracts balance? Daly is owed 12m while K9 is only at around 8m….Would throwing in Garcia balance it (and help our logjam of SFs)?
by Fredman on Feb 1, 2010 4:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
K9 and Armstrong make it perfect because they also get a backup C/EC and still pay less then Dalembert
I would say Dalembert and J. Smith for K9 May and HA, Saves them 1 million, gives them EC, gets them out of 13.5 million this year and it gives us flexibility 2011 FA mix and to resign guys we need to.
Judgment day is coming!
Truth is, we might not be able to find our big of the future thru trade or even in FA next year. But we don’t have too. If we can get someone to come in, vet or not; that can rebound & block shots, he can fill a crucial need for the next few years. It could be someone like Camby, Nazr or Dalember & Chandler. Getting one of these guys won’t kill us, we still have the draft the next few years & who knows who will be available in FA in the coming years.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
I just don't get why people would want a huge project
like Ajinca or Fesenko. So he can be another Hilton Armstrong. I keep hearing we need help in the frontcourt. Well guess what? Those guys will help just about as much as HA does. I kind of understand the “we need cap space” opnion. If that’s the case then just stick with what we got. If you feel we really need frontcourt help now then Dalembert, Chandler, & possibly Okefor are our best options. I would’t be too upset with any of them but I would rather have Tyrus Thomas. Either by trade now or in the offseason through free agency. TT with Spencer in the frontcourt would be nice to me. I’m not giving up on JT but I’m not sure how much upside he has. I’m thinking Joe Smith or Drew Gooden which is fine for a #12 pick & a third big.
I love beating dead horses.
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