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Kings Beat Knicks 118-114 in Bizarre Game

I don't really know what to say about this game.

On the one hand, HOLY CRAP! THEY WON! For the third time since the New Year. That should be warm fuzzies, right? But that's the last thing this game felt like, even as it became clear in the late fourth that the Knicks were fully prepared to walk the plank, and in the overtime period that the Kings were collectively rising to the occasion. The first three quarters felt like alternate madness (the bad kind) and craze (the good kind). The final seven minutes -- in which the Kings came back from a 15-point deficit on the back of Tyreke Evans's tractor -- felt like deja vu. Overtime felt like 2007. So weird! (That Ailene Voisin ran the point for The Bee back East adds further discombobulation. Not used to such purple gamers, though I will say I enjoyed it.

As fans of a bad team, we sometimes -- I am more guilty than most -- overrate the wins. A Donte Greene explosion becomes The Awakening, or some such. But I'm not sure you can overrate this win, given what it offered. I mean, Evans transforming into farm equipment in the fourth quarter? We've seen that -- this week! -- and we know it's repeatable. Kevin Martin exploding in the fourth quarter (for nine straight points)? That's an albatross in the Hudson, y'all. Greene going bonkers? We know it happens now and then. Omri Casspi is a star, yes yes, we know. (Man, is he a star!.) Andres Nocioni is a walking disaster half the time, far from a "solid veteran" he's made out to be. (Quick aside: I'd like to introduce a new smell test for advanced statistics. Plug Nocioni's performance Tuesday night into your formula. If Nocioni looks bad in your metric, your metric passes the smell test. I would immediately toss out any metric which indicated a good Nocioni performance last night. I'm not normally this certain, but I am certain that was terrible. Luckily, +/- and PER and everything else says Nocioni was a catastrophe. Good to know.) Jason Thompson, when he finishes in the paint and crashes the offensive boards, is awesome. (He was 3-5 from inside 10 feet and had five offensive rebounds. Just beautiful.) Spencer Hawes ... well, never mind that.

Star-divide

The question many viewers will have: why don't the Kings always play like that? Well, most teams aren't as stupid and/or untalented on defense as the Knicks. Most teams after, say, three brutal Reke drives to the rim would pack the lane. The Knicks didn't, and Evans kept on going. The success of a slash-heavy offense depends first on the opposing defense's complicity in the matter; if the defense is not complicit, then the attacking team needs to make appropriate passes and hit their outside shots (or do good things on a second slash). To date, the Kings have failed here: Evans is still working out how and when to pass, the Kings are only average from long distance, and the secondary slash has been nonexistant. But it's coming together, and I think even if teams defend the rim better than New York, the Kings can find some late-season success. Fingers crossed.

I was perhaps most encouraged by Paul Westphal's coaching. His lack of a set rotation -- hell, a set starting lineup -- has drawn ire. But it worked to perfection late. That particular closing lineup -- Evans-Martin-Casspi-Greene-Thompson -- was just brilliant. And it had played exactly zero possessions as a unit before Tuesday's game. That's why you keep experimenting, keep trying to find success. Cheers to Westphal for that.

***

Evans took 16 attempts at the rim (made 10) and earned seven FTAs. If you looked at his shot chart, you might think he was Dwight Howard, or at least Yao Ming.

2 recs  |  Comment 143 comments |

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Comments

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great game

      I have been hard on the Martin the last few weeks. Got to give him props on the 9 straight points in overtime. That was great.
      Got to give it to Omri too. All the pressure on this dude with the Jewish gathering and several meetings and the man stepped up. Started off strong, the shot started missing late, but had 9 boards too.
       I know it is soon, but have we found our new power forward in Donte? I have said it before, the kid has talent and balls for a junior in college. I really believe he is gonna be something special. For me, he is one of the untouchables on this team along with Evans and Omri. As Jerry said, he spreads the floor and allows the paint to be open for Evans to “shake and bake”.
      Great to see Evans stick with it, his shot was not falling, but he took to the hole in crunch time.
        Just a few other notes.
       Has Beno found his way in the PW’s doggy pound? Got yanked pretty quick I thought and did not start the 2nd half.
       I saw the Bee article about Martin’s headache, but found it interesting he did not start the 2nd half either. One final thought on this. I did not know why Martin was not in the starting lineup until the paper this morning. How is it that not one reporter asked PW in his post game interview why that happend?
       Need another win tonight for a good flight home.

by noreboundsnorings on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 AM PST reply actions  

I like that Donte can play PF in certain matchups

but come on, if he can play SF, or even SG, at 6-11?! Why not exploit the matchups?

by LPKingsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Well

I think because Donte’s not actually that great scoring on much smaller guys, so the potential mismatch is mainly lost. But he is good at taking bigger guys off the dribble and stretching the defnese. Playing him at PF also keeps him closer to the rim, where he can help with shotblocking.

Where you really miss him when he’s at PF is as a perimeter defender, but I think that’s made up for the fact that he can help defend the rim, which is sorely needed.

by nbrans on Feb 10, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Three reasons

1. We need more help at the 4-5, and if Donte can play meaningful minutes at the 4 in a rotation with JT and Hawes, we may have something that works.
2. There is just not enough playing time for the logjam we have at the 1-2-3 spots. Even last night, with Donte playing the 4, Beno was the odd man out. Not that I’m complaining.
3. Donte can cover the athletic 4s and can take the postup 4s outside and in the running game, taking them out of their game.

That closing lineup, depending on what happens before the deadline, is the one you want to have on the floor 60-70 percent of the time, with Spencer spelling JT and Donte, Ime doing his defensive role playing and spot minutes energy stuff, Brockman coming in to bang for a few, Sergio getting some second and third quarter burn, and Beno getting PT when he has it going or Tyreke or Kmart (if he’s still around) go down or are having a rough night.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 10, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

Donte at the 4 is interesting. He can probably guard a lot of 4s better than we think. He can’t be any worse than what we’ve seen so far this year. Plus, that lineup has a small ball element to it as well. Donte and JT may not be “small” but they’re both fast and athletic. That whole lineup could run a lot of teams off the floor

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Ailene Voisin reported that Martin had a migraine about 20 mins before tipoff.

It was already well known by then.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

TZ

To be fair to NY Knicks I don’t think that they could pack the paint. Our shooters were finally heating up and that is one of things I have been waiting the see. Shooters heating up so that Evans could penetrate more easily.

by MustangMBS on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 AM PST reply actions  

i like to penetrate easily too -

.

Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk

by mcpu40 on Feb 10, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Let us not forget this was the knicks. The let us in the game by missing wide open shots.

by sacman on Feb 10, 2010 8:05 AM PST reply actions  

Let us not forget we're the Kings

and the Knicks have a better record than us.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 10, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions  

OUCH!

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Feb 10, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

this

made me laugh … and cry

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 10, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I love when Kings fans actually talk about other teams like they're horrible

when we’re not really that much better

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Especially the Knicks

they suck because Donnie Walsh already has the C4 set on the roster and is just waiting till the season’s over to blow it up. It was okay for crappy teams to make fun of the Knicks back when Isaiah was running the show, but right now they’re about to go into full rebuild mode.

Although a full rebuild’s gonna be hard without a high first round pick. Another “fuck you” from Zeke!

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Right, no picks when they stink

They might succeed in adding a great FA which could be enough (in the East) to get them to the playoffs = another crappy pick.
And last year’s high pick doesn’t look like a starter in the D’Antoni system anyway.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

While cooking dinner

I was watching the game, and I heard Grant say, “That’s the biggest lead for the Knicks tonight.” I said to myself, “to hear that in the 4th quarter is NEVER good.”

The Kings proved me wrong! Great game.

by what_the_crap on Feb 10, 2010 8:17 AM PST reply actions  

I had pretty much written off the game in the fourth.

I was thinking, “Well they have come back before maybe that will happen again.” But, I wasn’t holding my breath. When the Kings started to come back, they turned the momentum around so quickly, I could hardly believe it. Once they got the momentum going for them, then I truly believed that they were going to win in overtime. Paul Westphal is right – Momentum is a powerful thing to have going for you.

I am not going to over-inflate this win, but it was certainly a feel-good experience for most of the players who did very well – Casspi, Green, Evans, Martin, and Thompson. This should be great for our rookies going in to the All-Star Weekend.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

yep

the thing I loved …. Tyreke came and dominated the 4th, getting them into OT. Martin came in OT and scored 9 to get the win. Loved it.

by what_the_crap on Feb 10, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

We sometimes criticize Tyreke for dominating the ball...

…but, when he takes the reins into his own hands to turn a game around, he is our hero. Tyreke did what Tyreke does – he just takes over, takes it to the rim, and makes some baskets. Martin was a pleasant surprise. Good timing on his part to come through when he did.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

i find myself soooo conflicted on this

Because i do get nervous with him always dominating it. Sometimes I wish he was just finishing the play not having to initiate it every time. However, that said, dear lord the guy is impossible to guard why not let him do his thing!

The situation keeps making me think of Lebron his rookie year (eh poor man’s shorter lebron. that’s still pretty damn good)

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 10, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

He's gotten better though

I recall a play last night where he drove and passed to JT For an important dunk. He’s starting to make the right decisions with the ball now.

However, it’s a catch 22 for him. If he passes the ball and the other guy misses we’ll think he should have taken the shot himself. If he takes the shot and misses he’s a ball hog. I guess its a good thing he makes it so much, eh?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

that play was very encouraging

would like to see more of it on a consistent basis but your absolutely right and i hope you keep on being right

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 10, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Ya gotta have trust

make your teamamates better or not any wins will come. What, Reke never misses?

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

He misses

but so do his teammates when he passes to them. So he’s probably had trouble building that trust with such inconsistent play around him. The inconsistency, however, is just a sign of youth. Experience will improve that and he’ll be able to trust his teammates more.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

He's got to use team's fear

of his getting to the rim for a least another year or two and get other players good shots.
Because he is not a good shooter at this point.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I read in the

Sac Bee

When asked what aspect of the pro game has been most difficult, Tyreke grinned. “Knowing when to pass and when to shoot. Sometimes it gets real confusing.”

that’s what I love to hear … someone who doesn’t BS. Says that he gets confused something, and last night showed he’s improving at it.

by what_the_crap on Feb 10, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

It's hard to explain and may be too fine a line to describe

But last night I saw ‘Reke pick up the team and put them on his back and refuse to lose. I think he’s done it twice before and while I can’t adequately describe it, I know it when I see it and it’s different than when he just dominates the ball and dribbles it to death.

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Feb 10, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Martin stepped up in OT

Really surprised me when he did. Till then he looked off and then gun shy. Noticed when they needed defense and Udoka was brought in it was Martin who went out.. Good for PW. Send Martin a message his D is weak. PW did a good job last night. He made all the correct decisions I thought.

by KingsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

BTW

For anyone who still question’s Tyreke and Omri as liking eachother (its been said before):

Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 10, 2010 8:20 AM PST reply actions  

wait

who do those two right hands belong to? is sergio under the frame?

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 8:31 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

That's how 'Reke is such a good finisher at the rim

the hairy white arm is his decoy arm.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 10, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Right hand is Evans right

And the white left hand is omri’s left… How’s that for wing span?

by Merickel on Feb 10, 2010 10:34 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I mean right

Son of a bitch I’m retarded some times

by Merickel on Feb 10, 2010 10:34 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Why is Omri patting his own head?

This picture makes no sense.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Feb 10, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

What? lol

It makes sense unless Casspi has a backwards arm !

by KingsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

haha try patting your own head with your elbow in that spot

and that’s a right hand, mystery not solved

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 12:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

if that be the case

Caspi has a career after basketball as a contortionist. His right elbow would have to be against his left shoulder. Ouch

by KingsFan on Feb 10, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Someone who DVRed the game needs to look at who has tape on their finger.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Feb 10, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Aw! This is really nice to see.

The love and respect for one another.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Great

Now comes the Reke/Omri slash fiction.

by Lotusprime on Feb 10, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

That was nice to see. Kind of like “Finally!”

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I was perhaps most encouraged by Paul Westphal’s coaching. His lack of a set rotation — hell, a set starting lineup — has drawn ire. But it worked to perfection late. That particular closing lineup — Evans-Martin-Casspi-Greene-Thompson — was just brilliant. And it had played exactly zero possessions as a unit before Tuesday’s game. That’s why you keep experimenting, keep trying to find success. Cheers to Westph

The fact that it’s taken over half the season and 10+ games after Martin’s return for Westphal to even try it leaves me completely discouraged about Westphal’s coaching.

I mean, really. You’re going to tinker endlessly with every lineup under the sun and not try Evans/Martin/Casspi/Greene/Thompson? Really? Really really?

by nbrans on Feb 10, 2010 8:28 AM PST reply actions  

The test comes now

That lineup had a measure of success. Will we see it again for extended periods, or will it fall in to the memory hole?

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Feb 10, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree the test comes now.

We shouldn’t go back and make judgment that he didn’t use this lineup in the past. I am sure he had his reasons to go with other lineups at the time. There are so many possible combinations he can use. It is impossible to try them all out in one season. But, we can begin from now. He had success with this lineup, so hopefully it will go down in his books as one of the more successful combinations to date.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually

I don’t disagree. Evans/Martin/Casspi/Greene got some action over the past dozen games, but always with Brockman, Nocioni or Hawes as the single big man. Thompson flourished with that line of shooters/slashers around him.

by Ziller on Feb 10, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Definitely

With the defenders running around chasing shooters, it opens up Thompson to do some dirty work and especially to grab offensive rebounds. Donte’s not going to be able to guard every PF, but he stretches the floor on offense, and since he’s the best help shotblocker on the team it keeps him near the hoop in a Josh Smith role.

It worked particularly well against the Knicks because they have a 6’9" center and a nonrebounding PF, but I think it would work against most of the teams in the league. Hopefully we see this lineup a lot more.

by nbrans on Feb 10, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

I thought JT was excellent last night

He was just so active and physical, both on the defensive end as well as the offensive boards. Every a Knick was in the lane in the last six minutes JT was in his soup. I am a big JT fan, I loved seeing him play so hard and be effective.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

So JT looked good at Center

with an athletic PF behind him?

Hmmm, I think I’ve said this would be true. I think JR has thought this for a long time. One of us is a basketball Genuis! (Ok, probably JR)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

How about JT

losing his starting job because his cousin died? I find this decision curious. JT has the right to be pissed. I am not a JT fan, and love the move to start Donte at PF, but it seems unfair to JT that he goes to a funeral, and upon his return is told he is coming off the bench.

If PW wanted to adjust the starting line-up, it shouldn’t have taken a family tragedy to spur the move. I would respect PW coaching more if he made the move while JT was with the team in the midst of his slump.

Good news is PW may have accidentally stumbled on something effective for remainder of season.

by bench_blob on Feb 10, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I have no problem with JT losing his starting position.

It may be unfortunate timing with the funeral; however, JT was not playing very well before the funeral. Of course, Greene has been playing the PF position brilliantly. There are no guarantees for these players. JT knows that. Had JT been playing really well before the funeral, I could see him being upset. JT needs to put the team first before himself. It was simply a matter of serendipity, which resulted in PW using Greene in what was “JT’s position.” I think the fact that PW experiments with his lineups, no one on the team should feel he has ownership of anything. PW will find a way to put JT’s talents to good use.

As you point out:


PW may have accidentally stumbled on something effective for remainder of season.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Not playing well???

JT was awful, absolutely terrible in almost every game in January.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Donte' has stepped up huge.

He has scored amazingly well at the 4 as PF. Combining his defensive presence with JT works. JT and Donte’ are tight and work well together. I think Spencer and Brockman are similarly dispositioned.

Blob – JT has still been slumping. His only good game in the last series of games has been in PHI. Other than that he has sucked.

by MustangMBS on Feb 10, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with Nbrans

Watching the rotations again last night, I am discouraged by PW’s substitution policy. I don’t think it promotes a lot of confidence in players, which we have all noted that many of our players seem to lack, to start the game only to play four minutes then to never come back. Having so many players playing in so many different combinations, I don’t see how we are ever going to get the cohesion neccessary to take advantage of all the offensive talent that we have. Kevin and Tyreke are exceptionally talented, JT, Spencer, Omri, Greene, and Beno are all above average, if we are ever going to have a alley-oop, back door cut, effective pick and roll type offense, the guys need to get comfortable. Now on defense, we must have the worst team work in the league, watching us switch on picks, or our help at the rim, it is at times awful, and I worry that having so many combinations out there ruin any continuity we could be building. While this bothers me about PW, I don’t want it to sound like I think he is doing a bad job, his to-do list to start the season with so many young players on a 17-win team, then losing two major components to injury, was long and difficult, I do think this rotation needs to be set soon so we can see a 15-20 game sample, because watching things work for a game is such a small sample. I loved that group that finished, but we need to try it out and make sure it wasnt just because we were playing the Knicks.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

JT also hadn't been playing well.

I can’t really blame PW for that one.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

No Shit

The linuep of Evans-Martin-Casspi-Greene-Thompson has NEVER been seen before?? Wow. Really? I’m surprised. I would have thought that lineup would be one of the first to try out. That is one of the lineups that I would expect to be a regular lineup!

Wow

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 10, 2010 8:42 AM PST reply actions  

Let's remember

Martin missed most of the games, and since he’s been back JT’s been going really badly.

Also, its tough to kill PW for not playing two rookies, a 2nd year guy and Greene who we weren’t sure at the time even was an NBA player, all at the same time during the first 5 games of the season.

by Grasul on Feb 10, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

yep

of all the pleasant surprises this year donté may be the most pleasant and the most surprising… nobody really knew what we were getting in omri — we suspected tyreke could do what he’s doing but not this well…

but dg — 6’10" with the ability to create his own shot and be a knock-down spot-up (Not off the dribble) 3 point shooter, plus the ability to play d on the ball and block shots (and by all accounts a great work ethic and attitude), that is the skill set of a future all-star. and at 21 (?) years old?

in 5 years when ron ron is hosting parties in vegas with dennis rodman that trade could go down as one of the best in franchise history.

I would be curious to see what the youngest teams in nba history (by age or experience – and factoring in the amount of minutes actually played by the young guys) have been. I would have to think that this team would be right near the top of the list. I am sure that someone here knows where to find such a list.

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 9:50 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Will Carmen Elektra be there?
In 5 years when ron ron is hosting parties in vegas with dennis rodman that trade could go down as one of the best in franchise history.

If so, count me in.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 10, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That would be a great party.

RonRon and Rodman? They know how to party.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Feb 10, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Team RonRod!

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 10, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I think there's an adult video

in that title somewhere.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Donte has been startling!

His blocks and 3-point shooting have been amazing. To think back to the sort of goof-ball he was last year, this guy has come a long way! I agree with you that he “has the skill set of a future all-star,” which he is working hard to become. He has been noticed! I would not want to see him in a trade talks.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty funny to read Hollinger's take on Donté prior to the season
Scouting report: Greene played only one year of college ball, and it shows. He’s a brazen gunner who launches a 3 every chance he gets, regardless of whether he’s open or not. He doesn’t have much skill with the dribble but, with his length and leaping ability, he should be able to attack the basket more than he did as a rookie.

Greene posted solid rebound rates in college but was absolutely atrocious in that department last season, a major red flag since it usually doesn’t vary dramatically from year to year even among developing players.

Defensively, he offers some potential given his length and decent mobility — certainly more potential than he showed on offense — but he’s a work in progress here as well.

2009-10 outlook: Greene should spend all season in the D-League learning about the 22 feet of space between the 3-point line and the basket, and how it’s normally desirable for 6-11 players to take shots from within that area. He was among the worst players in the league last season and is so overmatched that I’m not sure it helps him to be on the floor.

Unfortunately, the Kings are so thin on the bench that they may keep him with the parent team and force him to learn on the fly. Based on the roster heading into training camp, they’ll have some minutes open at the end of the rotation and may prefer giving them to Greene than to some veteran retread. Regardless, he’ll have to either shoot much better on 3s or curb his insatiable appetite for long jumpers to have much chance of sticking as a pro.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Feb 10, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow!!!
2009-10 outlook: Greene should spend all season in the D-League

What a change in Greene. The recommendation that he be on the D-League looks absolutely ridiculous now. Thank goodness he is where he is!

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I love watching Greene play

Admittedly, you can see his age and inexperience in a lot of dumb plays, but you watch and can just imagine how could he could be. When he learns to rebound, oh boy. Between him and Casspi, this might turn out to be GP’s most brilliant move.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah but

its somewhat harsh though it would have been hard to argue with any of this at the time

of course everyone underestimated just how bad the “coaching” was in his rookie year

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 11:06 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

bad or non existing coaching last year. Hollinger's take wasn't that far off at the beginning of the season

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t Donté took one 3 off the dribble last night. I think every 3 he shot, especially the 2 big ones late were taken with his feet set and his shoulders square to the basket.

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Feb 10, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure I disagreed that much with Hollinger's Donte' assessment

I’m thrilled with how he’s come along. Don’t get crazy though, he’s got some bad games, bad stretches still ahead of him.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, Hollinger's not too far off

He based that all on what was seen last year, which was pretty terrible

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

He looked completely lost to me on both ends of the floor

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

He wasn't lost

Last year he was just waiting for his turn to jack up another ill advised three pointer. Now he’s more of a tough defender who will stroke the three or score inside when needed.

Wow, it’s like he and Noc switched brains in the offseason.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I dunno how anyone could have disagreed with Hollinger on this. He was pretty darn bad last year

It’s kind of weird because i think he is now my favorite second King and i loathed that man. Lesson as always, i’m a moron

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm such a big fan

That after watching David Lee and Wilson (who is he) Chandler score at will, when dinner was ready I turned the TV, I was shocked when I learnt they had won this morning

by Murf on Feb 10, 2010 10:48 AM PST reply actions  

On the bad side

Yet another ‘interior’ (for the Knicks) player had a career night at the rim in Chandler.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:08 AM PST reply actions  

give chandler some of the credit though

he was throwing in sone tough shit. I didn’t know if he had any game at all, or if he was just another terrible isiah pick (wasn’t he?)

thank goodness that harrington and little nate decided that he no longer needed to touch the ball down the stretch

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 11:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

He wasn't picked... he was signed, right?

Like, he left college and joined the Knicks mid-season or something

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

drafted 23rd in 2007 by isiah and probably wouldn't have sniffed the 1st round otherwise

I don’t think the scenario you are describing is even possible – you have to go through the draft process if you are draft-aged

by lchristmas on Feb 10, 2010 11:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Isiah made some very good picks

It was FAs and trades that were awful beyond words

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

That was Randolph Morris

When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail

by Player To Be Named Later on Feb 10, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Feb 10, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

To be fair

Chandler had a career night everywhere. I think that’s the best game I’ve ever seen him play. Game score agrees 28.4

by Lotusprime on Feb 10, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I was surprised they didn't give the ball to Chandler at the end

Instead, Duhon dribbles around and then launches a 3? Priceless.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 10, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I watched that and thought,

“holy shit, he’s doing what we would do! We’re so winning this one!”

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

I was going to try to make some joke like he must have played for the Kings in a prior life, but passed …

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 10, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Greene for President 2012!!

Lets not get too excited about his first showing at the 4. The next game will show how confident PW is in Greene at the 4. But considering the performance of everyone else at that position previously, he deserves the opportunity to prove himself.

I look for forward to the day when everyone on the floor is considered out of position according to the experts.

by sac_faithful on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

Great insight TZ

I particularly like:

Evans is still working out how and when to pass, the Kings are only average from long distance, and the secondary slash has been nonexistant. But it’s coming together, and I think even if teams defend the rim better than New York, the Kings can find some late-season success. Fingers crossed.

I especially liked the pass by Tyreke with JT cutting down the baseline for the dunk. It the type of off the ball movement I’ve been crying about. On the comment about PW’s rotations

His lack of a set rotation — hell, a set starting lineup — has drawn ire. But it worked to perfection late. That particular closing lineup — Evans-Martin-Casspi-Greene-Thompson — was just brilliant.

The fact that he started Spencer and pulled him and Beno out after only 5 minutes, concerns me. If playing JT was such a stroke of genuis why didn’t he start. We all know Spencer does have good games going against quick athletic centers.

As far as the rotation itself, if Westphal stays with it or actually how long he stays with it will say more abouts his genuis or whether he’s still a tinkerer. My guess, the next time things go bad in a game, PW will start pulling new rotations out of his (hat), trying to find an answer for poor TEAM offense or defense.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

Don't you think

That it is difficult to consistently play team defense when your rotations are constantly changing?

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Not necessarily but it would be better.

Take for instance picks and screens, with Tyreke you can switch but not with sergio or Beno. With Sergio maybe you slip over the screen and jump show on the ball handler and let sergio catch up. There are a lot of things that change both offensively and defensively depending on who is in the game at the time.

It’s a lot easier to remember your responsibility if you always play the same position with the same players on the court with you. When I see players like Beno & Noc or Brockman & Sergio going at each other after a blown defensive assignment, I’ve got to believe that stability in the rotations would help.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Or maybe those players need to take responsibility for their actions instead.

There is a lot of things that will happen between now & several years down the road that will change the makeup of this team. This team doesn’t have enough talent, and that’s what mostly will change.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Question HT

Not really trying to defend PW here, because I agree the team could benefit from more set rotations. But so many times, the team just gets beat by the other team early in games and it seems like whatever is on the floor is not woking that I don’t fault him for trying something new on the fly.

This team is losing a lot (expected, understandable) so in order to try to find a different result, the coach is just trying to mix it up and find stuff that works during every game. Young players are inconsistent and you don’t know what you’re getting from game to game. Do you stay with the same lineup that’s not working during that particular quarter because that’s the way you set the rotation?

I’m curious what your take on this would be.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that is the catch 22 situation

Where you might have to sacrifice a few games now to try and win more later on.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Were Beno and Spence really playing that bad to start the game?

I was listening to the start of the game in the car and I think I caught most of the 1st quarter. I don’t remember thinking that Beno and Spencer needed to get pulled, but maybe they were failing in ways that didn’t come across on the radio or maybe I just missed it.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 10, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

What happened was the Kings started poorly

And then they were subbed for & PW clearly didn’t like the matchups after that. I think.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought Beno was slowed up by his foot problem

he hasn’t hit 3 pt shoot in 4 or 5 games. Hawes put up a couple of weak offensive efforts, but was ok. But, Lee isn’t the type of Center, Hawes defends well against, and JT was probably the better choice in the first place. I really didn’t understand why PW didn’t start JT or stay with Spencer once he started.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll have to go with Mack on this one

We did win some with all the 19 different starting line ups and hog pog of rotations, but we’re still 4 and 20 over the last 24 games so it hasn’t been all that successful. If someone comes off the bench and puts up some numbers, it doesn’t mean that if we would have stuck with the original line up, that they wouldn’t have eventually put up number also.

What we’re not doing is allowing our core, to learn to work their way out of trouble and back into the game. If the core is our future, and the future starters aren’t coming off the bench, we’re trading valueable experience for short term gains. As I’ve posted many times before, I believe PW is looking to the bench for individuals to help, when the problem is a team defense or team offensive problem and not an individual one.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If someone can convince me (and noone has yet) that PW's rotations are what's hurting this team in the future.....

…..then I’ll be glad to say I’m wrong. I think PW is searching for combinations because he’s looking for wins. I don’t think Omri Casspi will develop any better playing 25 minutes a night every night for the rest of the season. You play to win the game, as the saying goes HT. You can’t do that if every guy is playing set minutes regardless of rhyme or reason. if you prefer that type of approach, I suggest you watch the Wolves every night. They’re doing that very thing.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

This

Give guys set minutes once they prove they can play well consistently and once we’re in the hunt for a playoff spot. Until then, figure out what works best and adapt the rotation to the team you’re playing.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly V what concerns me is that PW seems more interested in adapting his lineup to what the other team is doing

Rather than forcing the other team to match up to the Kings. My hope is that is because it is out of necessity in order to win games now that he is doing this. I hope to see less of this in the future.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Once again, I think its a consistency thing

If PW tells the team they need to run and gun but guys are missing shots that they should make the other team won’t have to adapt to you. I don’t like adapting to the other team, but I don’t think our guys have been consistent enough for us to really get a sense of the style of play Westphal once. This is just one of those things that’ll eventually work itself out with experience and hard work.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This is my thought process as well

and it always takes me back to the Warriors-Mavs series. Avery Johnson effed up by trying to match up with GS and they ended up losing that series because they got caught up in the run-n-gun style that the Dubs were so good at.

At the same time this Kings team though, the young guys are not experienced, or maybe simply good, enough to take advantage of other teams. Say we played Spencer more last night trying to pound the Knicks inside. He’s still not a consistent inside threat on the offensive end so if you try to go to him he doesn’t really know how to take advantage yet. He’d probably still miss shots even if a smaller guy is on him and then would get beat on the other end. That’s a net negative for the Kings.

If we had a more experienced player, maybe they’d understand how to take advantage of this situations. Not sure if it’s always the case, but this is worth considering

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

And how did that experienced player gain his experience

That’s the issue about not playing our core against players or situations where they aren’t comfortable or effecient. How else are they going to get better, or how else are we going to learn that we’re wasting our time trying to make them better.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think a team can force improvement.

Part of Donte’s improvement was going to the coaching staff and asking what he needed to do is get minutes. You can’t teach maturity, and until maturity happens, it’s difficult for a coaching staff to commit to a player who isn’t doing what they ask of him.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this

It’s a bit of a 50/50 proposition. You need to the time on the court to learn, but also need to show beforehand that you can do it so that you even get on the court.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think PW has problems with young players.

I think he wants to see the prerequisites accomplished before they get on the court. And that matters. I’m never in favor of young players playing because they have a “future”. That doesn’t work out nearly as often as fans think it does. Kevin Martin played his way into the rotation his 2nd year. Francisco Garcia played his way into the rotation his rookie season. Minutes are earned; not given.

Donte has shown flashes. Omri has flashes of brilliance. Many other times he’s just a flash. It’s hard to tell exactly where he is in the grand scheme of things.

This team is so woefully incomplete that it’s somewhat pointless to complain about rotations when rotations aren’t probably set on a night to night basis anyway.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes the element of luck enters into the equation.

Players get injured, need to go to funerals or other personal issues arise. This gives a lucky break to some players who wait on the bench for some minutes or quality minutes. For those who are ready, this may be an important audition to prove themselves. Donte Greene, Sergio, and Sean May have all had lucky breaks. It is a flash in the pan. Donte came up big, Sergio has been given more recognition, and Sean May shows he can still play some basketball.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Avery Johnson may be the most overrated coach of the last decade.

Plus, that Mavs team very well could have won a championship (and should have).

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

You have a thought process?

I have to get me one of those…

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 10, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah.

Get your old ass in gear. :P

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

They have them at the Team Store next to the hats

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I used the discount we got on StR night

to get me one

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll go with Pookey on this one

now this isn’t a 100% all the time position. But, just because the other team goes 3 guards doesn’t mean we have to give up our size advantage and go small also. And, ever time Duncan comes out doesn’t mean we have to pull Hawes. It sometimes looks like PW, watches the other coach and copies everything they do. I guess I’d just like to see where sometime he says, ‘Here is our best guys and they’re going to drive the ball down your throat. Try and stop us".

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're right V.

I think we’re on the same wavelength on this.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I know I'm right

Fuck everyone else

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

There's the V I know.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok, let me get out the my time machine

It’s 2014, and Spencer and JT who were traded to Cha for Chandler and Wallace at the 2010 trade deadline, have just been named to the All-Star team. When interviewed both attribute their success to Larry Brown’s willingness to let them play thru adversity early in their careers.

Sorry, all this PW rotations talk is purely speculative, and no one can prove or disprove anything. You don’t believe it hurts, and I don’t believe it helps. And, I’m more concerned with Spencer who’s getting 26 mpg as a 3rd yr player and their only center, versus Casspi who’s getting 28 mpg as a rookie.

Yes, you do play to win the game, and how’s that going for us so far? My concern is that if the core doesn’t build confidence and gain valueable experience, we’ll be seeing this same type of line up carousel again next season.

But, as always, glad to hear your side of the picture.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Part of me wants to say

That it’s favoritism, part of me wants to say that it’s necessity, but regardless, if Spence and JT are going to be all stars in 2014 the only one who’s going to get them there are themselves.

by Lotusprime on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I think we all believe that

It;s how they go about doing it that’s in question. It’s the Chicken or the Egg problem. Do they get better by playing through adversity and perfecting their game, or do they have to perfect their game, to get a chance to play through adversity.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 10, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

And there is a reason Spencer only got 26 mpg - his play dictated that.

Had he played well, he would have received more minutes. Westphal holds players accountable for their play, which I think is a good thing. Nothing should be guaranteed.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 10, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

And, which player played consistently better?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Feb 11, 2010 2:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Playing time is all one big pain in the ass contradiction

if Spencer plays more minutes but is sucking how is that helping his confidence? He should get an extra 10 minutes a night where he’s playing like garbage so that way he can miss a few more shots and not grab a few more rebounds? If a player plays like shit for a longer period of time he’s still playing like shit. How does that help a guy’s confidence?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Learning how to play consistently is a tough trick for a lot of young players.

That’s why so many players don’t stick in the L.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

Which is where Westphal is right. If a player plays like shit, bench him and work with him in practice on what he needs to do better. He’ll still get the chance in the next game (except for Spencer apparently). The reverse to this is that when a player plays well, he stays in. This is how confidence is built. They see that playing well means more minutes. More minutes of playing well is more experience for them doing the things they need to do to build consistency.

Having a lineup full of youngsters is one big cluster fuck when it come to setting rotations. No one’s ever going to be happy. Talented guys who need to develop won’t get minutes. Other youngsters will get too many minutes but not do enough with them. Games will be lost. I imagine this is how OKC fans felt last year. I also imagine they feel pretty good this year now that their patience has paid off.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

People love to talk about rebuilding V...

…and they hate the actual process of it.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

are you saying V

that a players first few minutes on the court determine how many minutes he plays the whole game? If he has a bad start, thats just it?

I know I sound more contrary than I hope to, but am I understanding you correctly?

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

No

What he’s saying is that you have to prepare appropriately to convince the coaching staff you deserve those minutes on the court.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not what I'm saying

I’d prefer guys be given more chances throughout a game. PW’s leash has been a little too tight on Spencer in my opinion. However, guys aren’t continually proving that they are worthy of the minutes they are getting.

Quite frankly, this whole debate, friendly as it may be, is fairly pointless. There’s so many valid arguments one way or the other that its really just stupid to argue about it. Player X plays like garbage and gets pulled. He needs playing time to get better and build his confidence. However, his playing like crap isn’t helping his confidence but is helping the team lose. Seems silly right? This is why PW’s best bet is to play to win. If guys aren’t playing well pull them. But, keep giving those guys chances so that when they do give some good minutes Westphal has a reason to keep them in. Obviously his methods have been different with Spencer. Spencer played 6 minutes last night after playing well the previous games. Maybe he doesn’t like Republicans?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Feb 10, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

thats a great reply

thanks vfettke, for allowing me to understand your point of view.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

The NBA where match up problems happen

I don’t have any problem when a player gets pulled because of a bad match up. To be over-matched and unable to cope can really mess with their confidence level. A coach has to match up players best to both build confidence and increase their effectiveness.

by MustangMBS on Feb 10, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I was not that surprised by JT playing well last night. He, and Donte, both match up well against the Knicks.

Tonight, I’m interested to see how it works out.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I always wondered

what would happened if one or the other got traded. Not a big deal, just wonder about that sometimes.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 10, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I do understand the other point of view

but I think a team this young needs as much stability as they can get, and starting and then getting pulled four minutes into the game and never getting back off the bench is odd to say the least.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

It's odd

But it’s fair.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

You worded that perfectly HighTops

There is something to be said for having the guys work their way through a deficit rather than just throwing in the towel and going with other players, as hard as that is to watch sometimes.

by MichaelMack on Feb 10, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

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