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Around SBN: Blake Griffin Slam Dunks: NBA Jam Style

Kings Offense Back on Track

After Sacramento's solid win in Detroit Wednesday, the Kings -- as you well know -- have eclipsed 2008-09's win total. But the more important relevation is in the continued success of the Tyreke Evans-Kevin Martin offense. Over the team's past five games, the Kings have averaged 110.4 points per 100 possessions -- well over the league average. Three of those games were on the road (albeit against weak defensive teams), the other two against presumptive Western playoff teams (albeit one of which can't defend). Given the struggles the Kings had in scoring against mediocre teams in January, this is a good sign. The team comes back to host Boston Tuesday, and yikes! to that, in terms of keeping the offense going. But after that, the Kings play exactly one above-average defensive team the remainder of the month -- Utah, in Sacramento, on Feb. 26. The offense can build on the recent success.

We're starting to see the offense we envisioned. More exactingly, we're seeing what the offense we envisioned is doing to the opposing defenders. Guards have to make tough decisions constantly when Evans and Martin attack. Coaches are making tough personnel decisions -- Evans and Martin basically dictated Mike D'Antoni's rotation in the fourth quarter and overtime Tuesday, and you saw John Kuester struggle with finding a player to guard Martin Wednesday. It's almost like the guard pairing that took Detroit to the championship, isn't it? Of course, the Kings don't have near the big men or overall defensive talent (including in the backcourt) for a proper comparison to that team. But that's the most valid backcourt comparison in recent memory: a strong, often dominant point guard and a sinewy efficient two-guard.

And that, I think, is what will shape both the rest of the season -- 30 games left -- and the team's efforts in the trade market. The backcourt pieces are there. It's time to help out the frontline. Whether really helping out the frontline involves trading half of that backcourt remains to be seen. I hope not -- there are big men who can help without costing Martin, no doubt. But, again, it all remains to be seen.

At least Sacramento's front office won't be heading to Dallas with the stink of utter desperation on its hands.

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That is first time in a while

that I had to go back and actually look for a fault on this team. For the past month, the faults were obvious, and i’ve had to search for something positive to hang on to. Even hawes grabbed 11 boards in 27 minutes. I love it!!

by markdog333 on Feb 11, 2010 6:25 AM PST reply actions  

The Pistons?

I hadn’t really thought of it that way….that this team resembles the Pistons. But it’s true only to an extent.

IMO, we actually have MORE talent. We KNOW Tyreke is better than Billups, and I consider Greene (& his upside) to be better than Prince. I think Martin vs Hamilton is debatable.

So now that you put this in my head, suddenly Okafor looks like a MUCH better fit to me in spite of his contract which is what put me off before. But I don’t see a way to get him without giving up K-Mart, but this post has the wheels turning.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 6:34 AM PST reply actions  

wow, really?

Already Tyreke is going to be better than Chauncey Billups, we know that for sure? Billups is very, very good, with legit championship credentials (he was instrumental in it), literally one of the best winners of his generation.

And Donte’s going to be better than Tayshaun Prince? Give me a break, if Donte grows into having Prince’s career we all should be really happy. Hot shooting for a month is nice, but doesn’t automatically make a career.

I’m hopeful for our guys too, but let’s ease up on the expectations, all our young guys have plenty of learning ahead of them.

by Grasul on Feb 11, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions  

there's an asinine trade thread for this

:-)

If its my decision, I’m making trades like you propose next year. I’m not in a big hurry to add veteran pieces right now.

by Grasul on Feb 11, 2010 6:52 AM PST up reply actions  

there is an asinine trade thread for this

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Feb 11, 2010 7:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Only if Dante stays in the starting line-up

I love what Dante is doing. I don’t care if he scores 8 or 15 pts. As long as he isn’t jacking up bad shots to get it & bringing the defense & energy. I was a big Dante doubter but he has turned into one of my favorite players on the team.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Feb 11, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Tyreke could be better than Billups

especially when he starts getting more consistent with his outside shot. It is probably too early for the Donte – Prince comparison too. I have to say that I would take Donte over Prince. Though, I have to admit that i’ve felt Tayshaun has been overrated since his second season.

by markdog333 on Feb 11, 2010 6:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Billups wasn't that great

until his 5th year. I’d say Tyreke is on a faster track at this point. Who knows in the end of course but . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

We can only hope

that Tyreke will be able to shoot as well as Chauncey Billups.

by clicc916 on Feb 11, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Sure they have learning ahead of them.

But Greene already is the best defender on our team. AND he puts up almost identical numbers playing 10 less minutes per game.

Look at the stats:
  
Donte Greene
Sacramento
Position: Guard-Forward
Height: 6-11 Weight: 226
College: Syracuse
Player file | Team stats
2009-10 Statistics
PPG 9.0
RPG 3.0
APG 1.0
SPG 0.6
BPG 0.8
FG% 0.456
FT% 0.608
3P% 0.373
MPG 21.6

  
Tayshaun Prince
Detroit
Position: Forward
Height: 6-9 Weight: 215
College: Kentucky
Player file | Team stats
2009-10 Statistics
PPG 10.4
RPG 4.3
APG 2.0
SPG 0.7
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.432
FT% 0.686
3P% 0.350
MPG 31.9

Also, Reke’ is the most talented player to come out the draft sense LBJ….that says something. If you really think that Denver would turn down a trade for Evans/Billups you’re taking crazy pills. 2 or 3 years from now Evans will be a top 10 player in the NBA (Probably top 5) and Billups isn’t even top 15 RIGHT NOW.

So yeah, really.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you have to compare their primes against each other, rather than the old guys vs. our young guys now

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Feb 11, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

And if I knew where to find the #'s I would...

Donte is WAY better today than Tayshaun Prince was his 2nd season.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 7:53 AM PST up reply actions  

ESPN

Has stats for each player broken down by each season they’ve been in the league.

Tayshaun Prince

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Basketball-reference.com is better.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

thanks

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I love Basketball Reference for this

Donte vs. Prince First Two Years

Actually Prince is significantly better than Donte over his first two years, but Prince was one year older also. I think Prince is a good comp for Donte, but its something he should aspire to.

by Grasul on Feb 11, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

The numbers say

Prince is a better passer and scorer at this point, which I think is pretty fair.

by Grasul on Feb 11, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup.

And those numbers are pretty dang close across the board.

One more thing I’ll toss out is that Donte didn’t exactly have the greatest coaches last year either. Look at his improvement from last season to this one. By the end of next season, this won’t even be a debate anymore.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

If he makes a statistical jump next year from this year

Guy will be scary.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Weird but if you look at the stats outside of the comparison

and just open up both their files, they’re different.

Right now Donté scores 14.9 points per 36. Tayshaun has never averaged this much per 36. So Donté is already the better scorer and likely will get much better than Prince on that front.

Prince had 5.2 boards to Donté’s 5.0 boards per 36 so not much difference there. Donté is a better shotblocker as well, with 1.3 per 36. Prince is a better passer and stealer at this point.

I think we can expect good to great things from Donté

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

the comparison

combines both years, where you are looking at this year’s stats which are much better for Donte. So this year’s stats look much better.

The last thing I want to do is crap on Donte, he’s growing by leaps and bounds, I’m super impressed. I just want to show how to be careful with comparisons to other guys though. Prince is a damn good player, arguably half is value doesn’t show up well in stats in the first place. Let’s hope Donte keeps moving in that direction, if he does, the ceiling is pretty high for him.

by Grasul on Feb 11, 2010 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

No, he got it off Baskeball Reference from the "Per 36mins" category.

It’s Donte Greene vs Tayshaun Prince second season straight up. And Donte wins.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions  

And...

Donte is two years younger!!

by markdog333 on Feb 11, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I really like rooting for Donte'

Its great to be able to root for a player to be great, when that player, from everything I’ve seen and read is a great guy.

by TheFifthMookie on Feb 11, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Its all about the determination to get better

many players find a level and go no further. The drive to be one of the best is what sets Stars apart.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Here are teh numbers for just year 2.

Donte v. Prince

Intersting comparison and thanks for pointing out basketball reference’s cool tools.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Feb 11, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

and I’m sure it probably helped that his PG was Chauncy Billups, his SG was Rip’ Hamilton, and his Bigs were Sheed and Big Ben back when he could ball…

Ummmm, Donte played with Beno (last year Beno) and the franchise-worst 17win Kings.

Just sayin

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

in a donte-esque sort of way.

by markdog333 on Feb 11, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

You know,

If we win out, we’re a 48 win team!

Go Kings! (Said without the scary Roni voice and gang sign.)

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 6:45 AM PST reply actions  

I would rec

If you did the voice and threw the gang sign.

Whenever you think it can't possibly happen, it probably just did.

by doogman77 on Feb 11, 2010 7:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Sorry.

I’m a lady.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

You're not fooling any of us

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions  

another great win

       Martin looked last night, some more props to him. I just wished Donte could have kept his string of good games going. 0 rebounds in the minutes he played, no bueno.
        The next few days will prove interesting and does Petrie have any moves. As has been stated on here several times, a big man is needed. To me, this is just not a small piece of the puzzle, this is a very big piece of the puzzle. I hope this puzzle piece gets solved in the next few days, it has just kept us from winning several games.
         Good luck to the rookies in Dallas. I was wondering if any of their teammates are joining them in Dallas for support?

by noreboundsnorings on Feb 11, 2010 7:44 AM PST reply actions  

Props to you

I know I’ve taken issue with some of your criticisms of Martin, so I wanted to be sure I acknowledge you giving him props.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Feb 11, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I know that Brockman is going

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 11, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I think just the rooks are going

Which is nice.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions  

K-9 will be there

Hawes is there for union duties.

by Tom Ziller on Feb 11, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Hawes is the Kings union rep?

Good choice.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

considering he will be a restricted free agent when the CBA expires

I have a feeling that he will be very active in his job as union rep

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

My only qualm

Hawes is very conservative republican and putting somebody like that as your union rep has to be somewhat tricky. He could be very anti-union.

by MustangMBS on Feb 11, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

well i dunno if i am really rooting for a certain side in the negotiations

but either way, i really doubt he would go against his own interests

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually

I’ m not sure it’s such a bad thing – he’s more likely to hold his own union’s feet to the fire than tacitly agree with their recommendations.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Feb 11, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

That would be more effective

if they were negotiating with other players.

" What? You disagree? Hey, we’re playing your team next week aren’t we? – have you met my buddy Brockman here?"

“I hope you have your affairs in order”

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Our offense has been on track

These last few games represent Tyreke and Martin getting on track.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 11, 2010 7:45 AM PST reply actions  

Last night was a group effort

Reke was great down the stretch and Martin was back to being himself. But the difference was Beno, Noce, and even Spencer and JT hauling in the boards. Love the three guard line up when it’s feasible.

by Kusian on Feb 11, 2010 8:10 AM PST reply actions  

Kevin's trade value is going up

Thank god he has made some shots! Petrie won’t move him now but in the summer when the financial and free agent landscape clears up I think he will. I’ve bashed Kevin on this site partially out of frustration and also to ruffle some feathers, but I still feel in the long run, he just doesn’t fit in to what the team is building. He does provide the ability to stretch the floor and is another scoring threat to compliment Tyreke, but soon I feel Casspi is going to have that role, and with Dante growing ad well, I just see Kevin as the logical person to go. Casspi and Greene are younger and cheaper and Martin is an asset who is probably at the peak of his value. We can debate his toughness all we want . . . Maybe some of it was overblown by Grant, but I would hope even all of the Kevin supporters would admit his comments after the Phoenix game left him open to criticism and at times his body language does look defeated. Sometimes perception is reality.

by Mark Olberding on Feb 11, 2010 8:49 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

Kevin's not being traded, so give that up now.
He does provide the ability to stretch the floor and is another scoring threat to compliment Tyreke, but soon I feel Casspi is going to have that role

While I agree that Casspi is going to be able to fill that role, why on earth would you only want one guy who can on the floor at a time? Wouldn’t the best thing be for us to have a number of guys who can slash (Evans/Martin/Casspi) and a number of guys who can hit from outside (Martin/Casspi/Greene) on the floor at the same time? It would be a nightmare for opposing defenses.

And you mean complement, which is to complete, instead of compliment which is to say nice things about.

Unless that’s all you think people should be doing for Tyreke’s game. ;-p

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Let's not forget about Garcia either...

I would trade Casspi before K-Mart just because we do have Greene, Garcia, and Nocioni.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Why in the world would you want to trade away Casspi?

He is in his rookie year and has shown nothing but good things this year. We have only begun to see what this young man can do. I think you have been drinking way too much Kool-aid.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Feb 11, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Did I say "LET'S TRADE CASSPI"?

No. I said I would trade Casspi before I traded K-Mart, BECAUSE we have 3 other SF’s good enough to start for us aside from Omri.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Ridiculous.

Casspi before Kev? No way. Your argument that we have too many small forwards doesn’t mean you give up on the best one you have.

If you trade Kevin, you still have Garcia who can play the 2. Beno can be a shooting guard as well, and has been most of the season.

But I would obviously be ready to get rid of Garcia or Beno or Nocioni before Kevin or Omri. They are clearly the best at their respective positions.

Trading Casspi before Kevin would come back as one of the worst management decisions in 10 years. Trading Casspi at all might would be horrible. He is the 3rd or 4th best rookie in the league, is a hard worker, and still has huge upside. Casspi should be second only to Tyreke in the untouchable category.

What a dumbass statement to say you would trade Casspi before Kevin. Just stupid as hell.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Feb 11, 2010 10:12 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

What a dumbass take...

First: Omri is NOT the best we have. DONTE GREENE is the best SF the Kings have…

Also, trading Kevin Martin would probably turn out to be a FAR worse trade!

Oh, and it is EXACTLY FOR THAT REASON (Casspi 5th best rookie) that I would trade Omri NOW. I get that he’s a stud. But I like Greene as the starter. I like Garcia off the bench at 1,2, and 3!

Not enough minutes for everyone if we want to play with any consistency.

Bottom line is: Why should I trade one of my starters when I can trade a rookie bench player and keep my options open?

What a dumbass statement to say it’s a better idea to trade the most efficient scorer in the NBA (I don’t give shit who the current guy is, Kevin will be top 5 again by the end of the season) than to trade a Rookie with high stock. Especially when you already have 2 players the likes of Donte Greene and Francisco Garcia.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

That last paragraph was epic

Kevin went from the most efficient scorer in the NBA to probably not the most efficient scorer in the league, to a top 5 most efficient scorer in the league…all in the same sentence.

I disagree with some of what Ice_9ine is saying – and I like both guys – but I’d keep Omri Casspi over Donté Greene and not even blink.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Feb 11, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, a lot of people would.

I just like what Donte brings a little more. To me, Donte is a starter and Omri is a 6th man of the year type.

I want to keep em’ both. But I like Evans/Martin/Greene more than Evans/Martin/Casspi. That’s all, Casspi’s a sav

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Why trade anyone on this team but the older guys?

Tyreke
Donte
Omri
Hawes
JT
Next year’s lottery pick

There’s absolutely no incentive for a rebuilding team to trade any of these guys. We’re at the ‘stockpile talent and learn to win’ phase of a franchise. Maybe we trade some of the other pieces, like long term contract guys like:

Nocioni
Beno
Cisco
Kevin

and use the fringe guys as the puzzle pieces:
Udoka
May
Armstrong
Sergio

I my mind, the only ones we’d really be looking to move are Noc and Beno and some of the puzzle guys as necessary.

by TheFifthMookie on Feb 11, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

No, no, no.

The Donté-at-SG experiment was a faillure. He’s a much better PF. You still need Martin’s scoring and experience to go with the young core.

And it isn’t like Martin’s an old geezer.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

I think Donte’s ‘natural’ position is small forward. And for the record, I’m against trading Martin this year or over summer. I like the Martin/Tyreke backcourt, and want to see more of it.

by TheFifthMookie on Feb 11, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

I like the sound of Evans/Martin/Greene for years to come. I’m still not sold on our bigs yet though. (I want Hawes playing PF not C)

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

We definitely need a 3rd 'big'

If we had a legit near allstar level PF or C, JT and Hawes could probably platoon the rest of it and I feel that would probably get us there with the talent we have now. Or at least get us close enough for it to be interesting.

by TheFifthMookie on Feb 11, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Hawes is not mobile enough to play the 4

It would be nice if he was a Nowitzki/Bargnani type 7 footer, but he isn’t, and never will be. I guarantee if you asked him he would agree.

Thompson is more versatile in his positionality than Hawes. I think you could make the argument of Jason being better at center better than Hawes as a power forward.

But if you want, we can just play Hawes and Armstrong and see how that works.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Feb 11, 2010 10:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I agree. He's a 5.

Spencer actually has very good foot speed going in one direction. I’d bet my next pay check he could beat both those guys in a 40. However, both Nowitzki and Bargnani possess more fluid, athletic movement: the ability to change direction and do so fluidly while being able to complete basketball moves. In a way, it’s a similar comparison to the distinction between Tyreke and Kevin. I guarantee that Kevin is faster from end-to-end than Tyreke. Yet, Kevin does not have nearly the body control or lateral quickness that Tyreke possesses. Different players. Different skill sets. And, that is why I believe that Spencer absolutely must live in the freakin’ weight room. He must get stronger to compete consistently at the 5.

by Kusian on Feb 11, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm continually surprised

at how often Donte at the 4 comes up, while simultaneously people complain about our lack of rebounding and interior D. Donte needs to play on the wing and guard wings, by which I mean 3s, 4s and 5s who play on the wing (e.g. a Rasheed, a Rashard, but not an Amare or a Duncan).

by sactown on Feb 11, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I would have said Cisco except that no one in the league is trading for him until they see him play after the injury to his shooting arm/wrist...

That means the odd man out is Casspi. He’s good, but not as good as Greene.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

He's not?

He’s a rookie, and I’m pretty sure his numbers are better. They both have tremendous upside. But I’m not ready to say Greene is better. They are both very inconsistent. Omri is a better shooter. Greene a better defender. (Though Omri rebounds and defends well for a rookie.) IMO, Greene will eventually be a PF. Omri will always be a SF. I say we keep’em both.

by Kusian on Feb 11, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I can respect that...

But Donte is only 3 months older than Casspi.

I think people need to chill a little on Casspi. He’s a good player no doubt. He was also playing against pro’s before he came to the NBA.

Greene is better than Casspi.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Not today he isn't

not in any measurable way.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Search your feelings, you know it to be true!

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the spell check

Sometimes while posting from a cell phone and typing quickly it’s hard to be accurate. Glad we have someone taking the time to correct us.

by Mark Olberding on Feb 11, 2010 9:20 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

i am sooooo glad you don't read all my comments

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I do.

But the compliment/complement thing is something I always mention because it makes me laugh when people use compliment when they mean that someone’s game goes well with someone else’s game.

I always picture the players saying things like, “Kev, I just loooove that quick first step of yours!” “Thanks, Reke. And the way you juke guys out of your shoes…Wow.”

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 11, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Ha that is funny.

And ever since you’ve begun correcting me, I’ve become a better writer. At least grammatically.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

So thanks

I appreciate it.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

The only way that happens

is if we were to land a good young big man, and I just don’t see that happening. Plus, we are in a position to have a fairly high draft pick in a draft with some quality big men. Why not keep Martin and build again through the draft?

We might have a good enough young core where we can attract a decent free agent who may see this as a team that could be good for a long time (Bosh…are you listening…we could be a contender for the rest of your career!).

Bold prediction: The Kings get the number one pick, but to the dismay of many, they trade down. All is righted when the player they do pick does become the rookie of the year!

by markdog333 on Feb 11, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I’ve bashed Kevin on this site partially out of frustration and also to ruffle some feathers

I’m glad to know for sure now that your comments here are absolutely worthless and only meant to be a jackass.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Easy Wally

I stand by my feelings on Martin and I don’t like him or want him as a part of the teams future, but all of the Kmart apologists that flock to this site need to harsh criticism sometimes and sometimes that takes tough comments. You are quick to bash anyone that comes in to your playground and doesn’t share your views. Learn to deal with it.

by Mark Olberding on Feb 11, 2010 9:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Learn to deal with people intentionally trolling?

Yeah that does suck and guess what? When you post inflamatory stuff, as trolls do by definition, you tend to get flamed. There is a huge difference between posting criticism of a player and being intentionally provocative about it to start some kind of scrap.

by MustangMBS on Feb 11, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

That you wasn’t you (as in Mark) posting, but in general to all who post.

by MustangMBS on Feb 11, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Easy Marky

To be honest i didn’t read your entire post because I got stuck on the “ruffle some feathers” thing and that wasn’t fair. I get where you are coming from, sorry bout being a dick.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

We all want the same thing

That’s for this Kings team to grow in to a contender. To change subjects, we all are focused on the trade deadline and the possibility of adding a big man. We have speculated the most on Tyrus Thomas, Dalembert, and a few more, but why do I get the feeling Troy Murphy is going to be the guy? I know we heard his name linked to the Kings once a few days ago and that was it, but this just feels like a Petrie move. Petrie has never been a guy to trade or draft role players or specialists, and at this point Thomas and Dalembert are kind of in that category. Petrie always values skill first, and Murphy does bring skill and a double double to the table, not to mention versitility. Not sure how I would feel about it . . Murphy doesn’t have the skill set we are in need if, but it feels like a Petrie move.

by Mark Olberding on Feb 11, 2010 11:20 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

i agree with you on this.

the only reasons i see us not getting troy would be either (a) Maloofs are really broke and are flat out want to just have K9’s contract expire or (b) somehow the Pacers get a better deal somewhere else. Either way, i don’t see why the Pacers would want to rush it.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

If Petrie’s going to take a flyer on a Thomas or a Dalembert, I doubt he’s going to want to give up serious assets to do so. It just doesn’t feel like his philosophy.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Feb 11, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I have thought something similar

He is an excellent defensive rebounder, which we need, as well as a very good outside shooter, which Petrie loves.

Do I think it is a perfect pick up? No, not really, but I am a fan of Murphy’s, and I could see him, Thompson, and Hawes being interchangeable for the majority of the 96 minutes at the 4/5 position.

by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Petrie doesn't draft specialists?

What are KMart and Peja if not shooting specialists?

And Troy doesn’t seem like a GP move to me either. We’re building for the future and Murphy is too old. This isn’t a reload when GP added SAR and Mikki.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

by hozr on Feb 11, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Peja

was 2nd team All-NBA one year, that’s a pretty special specialist.

by Grasul on Feb 12, 2010 5:40 AM PST up reply actions  

But a specialist none the less

It just shows that GP is good at picking pretty special specialists. But we knew that already. ;-)

I would point to Jon Brockman as another specialist draft of GP’s. People seem to be very eager to draw a pretty tight box around the type of player that GP drafts. It might be true in a very general sort of way but he doesn’t adhere to that stereotype as much as people think he does.

As an aside, I view KMart as being analagous to Peja from the old Kings Championship contending team. They’re both great shooters who also have the ability to slash to the basket with neither being a stellar defender. Peja was not the #1 star player on that team but how far would that team have gotten without Peja? No where near as far as they did would be my contention. Given that comparison why would we trade KMart (our current version of Peja) while bulding our next contending team? It makes no sense to me, you don’t accomplish anything by filling one hole while creating another. All you do is move the hole around and end up getting nowhere.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

by hozr on Feb 12, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Rec'd for the last paragraph

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Feb 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve bashed Kevin on this site partially out of frustration and also to ruffle some feathers,

If pissing people off is why you post, you’re doing it wrong.

by TheFifthMookie on Feb 11, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

If Dante is going to play the 4 . . .

As a Rashard Lewis type 4, then we need a low post stud inside and I think we can all agree we don’t have that yet.

by Mark Olberding on Feb 11, 2010 9:43 AM PST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

yeah, Donte's a SF...

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Hmmm..

Donte’ has played some of his best games as a PF. His quickness and new defensive emergence might argue otherwise.

by MustangMBS on Feb 11, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

There is a lot to like about Donte at the 4

but his defensive rebounding is seriously lacking. I cant see him spending a majority of his time there due to that weakeness.

by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Thats what we need to keep an eye on the rest of the year

other than consistancy. Watch his rebounding numbers. You’ve got to admit he’s showing signs of really putting his game together but rebounds are lagging – so far.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Those performances were based on matchups not actual position.

He’s more Rashard Lewis than he is Tim Duncan or KG, believe that.

I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!

by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 11, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Most everybody agrees that we have holes in this roster

Though I think that Donte’s defense is really helping our matchups at the low post. We tend to get killed by smaller and more athletic bigs about the same size and quickness as Donte’. He just needs to be a bit stronger…

by MustangMBS on Feb 11, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions  

guard rotation

I like having KM, Tyreke and Beno for the 3 guard rotation. Keep Casspi and Donte too, but we need more help at the 4&5. Why trade a key part of the offense when perhaps we can put together a trade that makes us better without giving up KM. Just because he is our most tradeable asset, doesn’t mean we should trade him! I know this sentiment is heard often on this site, but wanted to add my opinion!

by newkings on Feb 11, 2010 11:25 AM PST reply actions  

those three

are a devastating scoring combination.

by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Everyone is ignoring the real reason the team is winning again

Aileen is on the road with them. Just move her into Omri’s pad now.

by Bitgod on Feb 11, 2010 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

But she didn't make it to Detroit last night

Maybe it was a carryover effect? A little bit of Aileen goes a long ways?

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Feb 11, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, Ooooops she missed her plane

and had to stay home in NY. Please.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

A little bit of Ailene goes a long way

… just like castor oil.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

by hozr on Feb 11, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Young core

I agree totally with TheFifth Mookie – the young core is untouchable and that’s the 6 guys under 24 that should be on the roster after June’s draft (Evans, Casspi, JT, Hawes, Greene and #1) – anyone else can/should be used to improve the core (including Martin).

that #1 likely won’t be Wall, but could be E Thomas, D Favors, Aldrich or D Cousins.

The easiest spot to fill on the floor is the 2 – Martin is solid O player, but nothing on D. Remember in the glory years the Kings won with Christie at the 2, playing great D and hitting 3’s. If the Kings can improve the 4/5 through trade or draft, and bring Hawes off the bench next year … they could win 45-50 games playing Cisco Garcia at the 2.

by KingWatty on Feb 11, 2010 2:28 PM PST reply actions  

I don't agree

That Cisco is a better all around player than Martin. He is very inconsitent on offfense and is not quick enough to guard the quickest 2 guards. I like him and he can play defense and handle the ball, but I think KM’s scoring brings more to the team. I don’t have stats to back this up at the moment, just my observation on watching the two play over the past two years.

by newkings on Feb 11, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

2 guard/SG is the easiest?

tell it to NowOrl, Okl, Minnie, Memphis, Utah etc…

and thats just the West.
(Cleve, Detroit, Indy, NY, NJ, Tor, Chic, etc)
The SG is supposed to be your primary efficient scorer / jumpshooter. I kinda think we have it covered just fine.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

But if you mean the easiest spot

to plug some random guy who wants to shoot into – I guess you’re right.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

i've always wondered where the assumption "wings are easy to find" comes from

Seems like there are either elite, very good, or pure dog poop SGs

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I forgot Dallas of course

more than a few playoff teams in there

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 11, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

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