Sactown Royalty's Kings Asset Rankings
Since trade fever is hitting a, um, fever pitch, I would like to present for you, my friends, a hierarchical ranking of the Sacramento Kings' assets as of today. Value is the value here: production, potential and contract all weighed.
1. Tyreke Evans
A simple exercise, really. Evans has been the team's most productive player, its most consistent and its most exciting. He also happens to be the youngest, and he's (relatively) cheap until the 2014-15 season. Number One with a bayonet.
2. Kevin Martin
Other than Evans, Martin is the closest thing Sacramento's got to an All-Star, potential or otherwise. At age 27, Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the history of the game, working on his fourth consecutive season over 20 points per game. While questions remain as to whether he can be effective next to Evans, his contract is so favorable that he'll be highly sought after for years to come (barring catastrophic injury, locker room standoff).
3. 2010 First-Round Pick
The Kings figure to land somewhere between third and 10th in the Backwards Standings, with the No. 1 pick a relative longshot. But a top-10 pick is highly valuable, especially in the run-up to 2011 collective bargaining. After 2009's ultrasuccessful draft, the Kings will likely hesitate to relinquish the pick for anything less than a star.
4. Spencer Hawes
Consistency has been lacking, but the raw figures -- a 7-foot 21-year-old with NBA skills -- are too good. Imagine Hawes were a college senior right now. He'd be running the Pac-10, right? And that'd be worth a lottery pick. Hawes has had a few promising stretches, fogged out by more frequent stretches of questionable play. But in the end, the promise of tomorrow is too strong to ignore.
5. Omri Casspi
Casspi has proven to be more than marketable: he's a legit NBA player, maybe soon a full-time starter. And, like Hawes and No. 6 on our list, he's 21 years old. A brilliant marksman, an effusively energetic maelstrom ... this kid is good.
6. Donte Greene
Greene, the other half of The Ron Artest Trade, went from abyss to mountain pass in the span of just a few months. Greene is the team's best perimeter defender already, and a usable power forward in the right situations (and maybe soon in all situations, reads the Myth of the Next Rashard Lewis). His future success depends on the continued success of his three-point stroke; that really is the question he faces now and in the future.
7. Jason Thompson
It's painful to put J.T. this low -- he would have been No. 3 this time last year -- but his inconsistency, especially in scoring at the rim, has dragged down his production. With prospects of middling hyperpotential, production is the barometer; hence, the slip. Thompson is still quite useful, and on any given night the team's best big man. But until he can regain his steez, he sits more expendable than the other assets listed.
8. 2011 First-Round Pick
There's no telling what the Kings will actually do between now and Oct. 2010, so there's no telling what this June 2011 pick will mean. As the Kings have been terrible lately (as in, since 2007), there's substantial evidence the team will be terrible in 2010-11. But the right moves and maturity from the youth corps and this could end up a late teens, early 20s pick. If you trade it, you ought to protect it, given the uncertainty. But given the uncertainty, if you can move it while making your team MUCH better, it might be worth the risk.
9. Jon Brockman
I still have no idea why the Kings signed Nessie to a one-year minimum deal, but it's not terribly clear there will be a significant market for Brockman this summer or fall. Chances are he ends up back in Sacramento; if he's paid less than $2 million on another one-year deal, he's well worth it. In the trade market, he exists as either minor insurance against losing either starting big for the rest of the season, or as an upgraded throw-in.
10. Francisco Garcia
Out of sight, out of mind, unfortunately. It won't be clear until March or April how or whether Garcia fits the new program. He's a great teammate, fantastic shooter. But this team has shooters galore now, and it's not clear whether his other skills (leadership included) justify his salary. His first month or so of playing time will indicate which way -- asset or liability -- he's headed.
11. Sergio Rodriguez
Rodriguez will actually be one of the top 10 or so free agent point guards this summer, along with the likes of Carlos Arroyo, Chris Duhon and Luke Ridnour. If the Kings can't manage to move Beno Udrih, and Sergio can net a decent second-round pick or a foreign prospect or something, it might be worth looking into. Ideally, though, the Kings would exile Udrih and give Rodriguez all his minutes, then make a decision on whether to present a qualifying offer this summer.
12. 2010 Second-Round Pick
This pick will be between No. 33 and 40. Several excellent players have fallen in that range over the last several years. Geoff Petrie tends to be fast and loose with his seconds, but so long as the team stinks it may be worth keeping.
13. Ime Udoka
I'm not sure any team would offer even a second-round pick for Ime right now, despite his excellent defensive performance. Teams whom would give a player like Udoka minutes typically have Udokas already. But he's a slightly upgraded throw-in.
THE NON-ASSETS
Hilton Armstrong
Armstrong is an expiring contract only.
Kenny Thomas
To the Kings, Thomas is no longer an asset -- in other words, he has no value to the Kings beyond Feb. 18. He exists as an avenue of matching salaries at the deadline ... and that's it.
Sean May
May is a tiny expiring contract only.
THE ANTI-ASSETS
Beno Udrih
Now Beno is overpaid. Last season, he was MASSIVELY overpaid. Now? Just "overpaid." Needless to say, other teams would be doing the Kings a favor by taking Udrih off their hands.
Andres Nocioni
Ditto for Nocioni, who desperately needs to be moved for a shorter contract. Chapu is the least valuable small forward on the roster ... and the most expensive. He's not exactly the New Kenny Thomas, but he's pretty close.
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no time for full comments but reading this through
TZ is StR’s main asset.
(hey, it’s Valentine’s weekend, just spreading some love)
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 11:33 AM PST reply actions
and Ziller's butt cheeks
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Feb 12, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Victor, that is just wrong
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Haha
I can’t just call someone a brown noser. I don’t have the ability to not take things too far
www.mancancook.net
mancancook. My wife went back to work this fall and my son and I have to eat
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Damn...
That chicken penne looks glorious. I might rock that tonight. Not sure how I feel about StR going first name basis, but thanks Victor. (Wow, that doesn’t feel right)
Why won't that stupid StR let me into their crappy club for jerks?
Haha
yeah it’s weird. And it’s Victor! Don’t forget the exclamation!
That chicken penne is bomb, and its fairly healthy for the most part.
www.mancancook.net
Don't agree with Spencer Hawes at #4
Switch him with Thompson and I think this list looks correct. Thompson is a better all-around player and has two years after this season on his rookie contract vs. Hawes’ one. Yes, Hawes is younger but has had more time to adjust to the NBA. I don’t know how JT can be at #7 on the grounds of inconsistency when Hawes has been even more up and down.
I disagree, I think TZ nailed it on those two
(this is as of today of course but JTs skill set just doesn’t seem to be improving)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
I think he has
His defensive rebounding his up from when I did my Spencer post, his offense is noticeably more consistent and his defense isn’t atrocious, merely poor.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Spencer's rebounding % has declined every season
I’m not sure why hope springs so eternal on this board when it comes to Hawes. Or maybe I’m just a Hawes pessimist.
Yeah, he’s just 21, yeah, he’d be a senior in college, but I don’t see where all the room for phenomenal growth is. He is what he is: an athletically limited 7’ player with some passing and shooting skills. He can improve those skills some more, but I don’t see where there’s so much grounds for hope that he’s going to turn into a star or something. Best case is Brad Miller, and he’s not even there yet.
JT on the other hand, has athletic gifts that set his potential higher. He’s still putting things together, and while he’s had a rough stretch, overall he has definitely stepped up his game a notch from last season. JT’s biggest impediment is his brain, but players get smarter. They don’t suddenly get more athletic.
I agree
JT has a bigger upside than Hawes. If Hawes were to add some toughness to his game (rebounding and D), he would suddenly improve his worth to this team by a huge amount.
As it is now, if he isn’t hitting his shot he usually a liability because of his defensive weakness.
I might be delusional
But I’m of the opinion that Spencer has more upside than JT.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
You probably wouldn't have said that 2 months ago
I’ll be surprised if JT doesn’t finish strong.
I would have said that 2 months ago.
I don’t care about slumps. In my opinion if both Spencer and JT both fulfill there potential, Spencer will be the superior player.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Brad, as bad as he looked the last few years
Was a legitimate All-Star for a few years. Spencer can be a better scorer.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And a better defender
and passer. Hawes already is probably a better interior defender and shotblocker than Miller ever was.
Just checked the stats and I was right.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Feb 12, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No way
In his prime, especially when he was with the Bulls, Miller was a tough post defender in a way that Hawes never has been. Hawes may have matched or slightly exceeded Miller’s shotblocking numbers, but there’s no way you can tell me that Hawes right now is a better defender than Miller before he started his decline/disinterest.
Too much weed I guess.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I already knew weed made you lazy
I didn’t know it made you whine to the refs…
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Brad wasn't very good until 24-25
we’re not saying he’s better Now
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
This is very true. He took a ton of time to develop.
He went through Charlotte and Chicago before he peaked in Indy and his early years in Sac.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree with this.
I have always thought Hawes would be good at the 4. A combo like Hawes/Camby would be awesome. Two 7’, one who can shoot & pass, the other playing D and boards.
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Hawes is a Center
Not a 4. He’s not quick enough to be a 4.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
But an athletic defensive 4
(like Tyrus Thomas) next to Spencer, would be ideal.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I always hear people say that...
The position you play on defense doesn’t dictate what you play on offense….I like Hawes at the top of the key.
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you
on offense Hawes will never be a back to the basket dominator. He’s got loads of potential playing in the high post though.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
which of those guys
guards Rashard Lewis or Jeff Green? Hawes is a center.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Rashard Lewis is a SF
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Plays PF for the Magic.
So he’s a PF.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
He played PF last year
for the Magic or did Hedo?
And the fact is guys like Lewis are becoming more common, not less.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Yeah and KG plays C from time to time.....AND? He's a PF.
Don’t give me the crap line about them becoming more common. Keep it real, would you prefer Rashard Lewis or Tim Duncan?
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
what does who you'd prefer have to do with anything?
The fact is, last year one of the teams that went to the finals ran Nelson/Pietrus/Hedo/Lewis/Howard out there.
If you had Camby/Hawes they would have had to guard someone. Frankly, you can make the case Cleveland didn’t go to the finals last year exactly because they didn’t have someone to matchup with Rashard Lewis.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Who you prefer is everything.
It’s not the actual players. It’s the skill set AND body combination.
Also, we ain’t Cleveland…. Donte Greene, Omri Casspi, and Cisco are all on our roster.
And Pooky, I know what Orlando has him playing PF. But he would be at the 3 if they had anyone beyond Gortat and Anderson to come off the bench…
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
No they play him at the 4.
How many Magic games do you watch?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ummm, why would you say "No they play him at the 4"?
When I said:
he would be at the 3 if they had anyone beyond Gortat and Anderson to come off the bench…
If they had a real PF they would start him and let Lewis start at SF where he was more successful.
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
No they wouldn't.
They play him at the 4 for a reason. They play him there to take advantage of slow footed 4’s. He can also post up. He also plays far better defense than people give him credit for. He’s a better defender at the 4 than he is at the 3.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You're both correct
but Lewis doesn’t do a lot of posting up . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not a lot.
Mostly that’s by design.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
"He also plays far better defense than people give him credit for. "
I agree, but he should be that good with all the coin he makes..!
No he wouldn't
Orlando’s entire system relies on having one power player in the post (Dwight, Gortat, Bass) and then surround that guy with 3 point shooters.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Orlando doesn't play Bass.
But otherwise you’re correct.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They don't play Bass
because he can’t hit a 3 and isn’t good enough down low.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yeah.
I’m not sure why Otis Smith signed him honestly.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Because he's an idiot
He should’ve resigned Hedo for a few more mil a year. Hedo was the reason they made it to the Finals. Teams just didn’t know what to do against him. Smith got Vince Carter, who is the type of player they needed in the Finals and made him look like a genius, but then he let Hedo go like a moron
www.mancancook.net
Nah I think he made the right move to get VC.
I just don’t understand why he went after Bass if he was going to re-sign Gortat.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
VC was the right move
but letting Hedo go was wrong. Obviously it would’ve cost an extra $4mil to keep Hedo, but they’d be gunning for a championship
www.mancancook.net
Nah I don't think so.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And they're gunning for a championship as it is.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hedo puts them over the top
He was incredibly in the playoffs. No one knew what to do to him. They needed a guy like VC to beat LA. So they go an get VC, but lose Hedo. It was a stupid move, period. Not resigning the guy that was a matchup nightmare in the playoffs so you could sign another big guy that would hardly get used? It was a dumb move and you really can’t argue that.
www.mancancook.net
I'll tell you after the playoffs
But I tend to agree with vfettke. Hedo could both create And make his teammates better . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
from what I heard, they felt that Hedo
had brought them as far as he could. They wanted to try a different direction with VC.
I don’t think it was the logical choice as Hedo can do more than just score but they must be doing something right to make it to the NBA Finals.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
They needed a VC type slasher that could go inside
If they still had Hedo along with Vince they’d be so fun to watch
www.mancancook.net
for skill sets
I’m sorry, but Tim Duncan is a center. I agree that Lewis is nothing like a traditional power forward, but you have to acknowledge there’s a fair number of guys like him around, athletic tall guys, some of which can shoot.
Lewis, Jeff Green, Josh Smith, Anthony Randolph, etc
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Its interesting
Is it an evolution in the game that will stick as J reynolds seems to sometimes imply? Or a fad?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
It's an evolution I think.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think it will only last as long as it takes for legit bigs to repopulate the league.
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
And I'm spilt between those two opinions
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rules changes are also part of it
Or should I say changes in the ways the same rules are enforced. They favor atheticism and quickness over strength now.
When will those legit bigs come back?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They already started to
but then Odom broke his entire body.
Also, Bynum took longer than expected to come on. But think about it for a minute: Yao, Howard, Bosh, Gasol, Perkins, Odom, Bynum, Griffin, Thabeet, Lopez, Bogut, Noah, Okafor, etc…
There are already plenty of big men around and more coming.
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by Noble_Bloodlines on Feb 12, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
look at the current college crop
lots of long athletic 3-4’s without much post game. It is an evolution, not a revolution.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Mainly, I think
with the mainstreaming of the 3pt Shot. It is a major part of many offenses now, and teams need more than just a back court to be able to shoot outside.
Lewis plays the 4 for the Magic.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think you're delusional
I just think you’re going on faith. I don’t see how guys like Hawes evolve into star players. Brad Miller absolutely maximized what limited athleticism he had with his shooting and passing. Hawes would do really well if he could even approach that. But because he sucked so much in the end it’s easy to forget that Miller was an extremely rare player and Hawes has a long way to go to get there.
I think Miller
at least early in his career was tougher than Hawes ever will be, but I think Hawes is more talented. I don’t think that translates to Star though.
What’s Spencer’s max reasonable upside? 15pts/9rebs/occasional blocks/good post defense/a lot of assists for a center. If he does that on a good shooting percentage without a pile of turnovers, that’s pretty good, and certainly starting center material.
It also may translate to an All-Star game or two just like Miller has “fluky” All-Star games, but that still doesn’t mean he’s a star, at least not in my book.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I think Spencer can average 20+ points a game
20/9/3/1 is his potential I think.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Wow.
See, I just don’t see that happening. There are lots of stages it takes to get there. Right now people don’t even respect Spencer as that credible an outside shooter in the way that they did with Miller.
Step 1 to Spencer on the road to 20 ppg is actually shooting well enough from outside that the defense respects him. He’s basically shooting open jumpers right now.
Step 2 is after he becomes a credible threat, that he finds a way to take it to the hoop or have some other go-to move once people start crowding him on the perimeter. Spencer has never really shown he can put the ball on the floor.
Step 3 is scoring despite defense keying on him. That’s pretty far away.
I just don’t think Spencer has the athletic gifts to score 20 ppg. He’s never shown he can score in the post, despite his reputation coming into the league. So how is he going to get all these points, especially
Brad Miller’s highest scoring season was 15.6 ppg. I seriously don’t see how Spencer is going to surpass that.
I agree with you on this.
I don’t see Spence averaging 20 pts a game. But I don’t really think a high water mark for a player is scoring 20 ppg either.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Spencer peaked at 15/9/4 like Brad did I would be very happy
Provided the defense is there. He’s got a ways to go though.
Yep. I'm with ya there.
I’d be happy if that was JT too honestly.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But don't you guys think that JT's peak will be at least equal higher...
…and thus, JT is more of an asset to this team? Especially given the work ethic and motor?
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
This argument started as Hawes vs. JT, tho.
And I am in JT’s camp. If the Kings had to trade one of these guys at the deadline, I would be devastated if it were JT over Hawes. I think JT is the better player now, and in the future. Athleticism and a motor that doesn’t start. Can you even imagine JT thinking he’s too good to play in summer league if he were asked to do so? No way.
Plus, even though I disagree, let’s say Hawes’ upside is 20/9/3/1. I think JT’s is easily that as well and JT gives you better around the basket production and defense (albeit minutely). JT will get you similar (maybe more) points, more rebounds, equal blocks, and JT has had some outstanding games for assists (I recall he very nearly got a five by five last year). He struggled and summer league and recovered. This too will pass. I think JT’s glimpses of brilliance have outshined Hawes’.
I’d much rather see a defensive-minded C paired with JT in our front court than a defensive-minded PF paired with Hawes. And thus, I respectfully disagree with JT’s low position in the asset list, especially if Hawes is ranked so much higher.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree
Hawes is a better outside shooter; a better inside finisher; a better passer. On offense, he makes his teammates better. He’s also a better inside defender and better shot blocker.
BTW, how many point blank shots has JT missed this year? (Devil’s advocate: How many times has Spencer’s shot been blocked this year?) And has he ever heard of a left hand? Moreover, you can count on at least a couple of boneheaded, stupid mistakes from JT every time he’s on the floor – often at the most inoportune time. He’s also a foul machine. Does he play hard? Yes. Is he tough? Yes. Is he a decent rebounder? Yes. Is he athletic? Yes. Is he a nice player with potential? Yes. But, Spencer is more skilled and has more potential to help the team in the long run.
JT has 11% of his shots blocked and his eFG% is ,584 on inside shots (Close/Dunks/Tips).
Spencer has 13% of his shots blocked and his eFG% is .603 on inside shots.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
One other interesting note
(at least to me)
JT has a higher percentage of his total number of shots as jumpshots than Spencer. We always think of Hawes as the outside shooting guy, but actually JT shoots more outside shots.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
the other plus in the Spencer column presently is that he stays in games
JT is a fouling mo-sheen.
Both will improve – both have different attributes. Hawes is more skilled and will improve with lower body strength as he matures. JT will learn to idle his motor a bit, he has a nice mid range jumper, he is blocking more shots lately, however his footwork is only better than awful and his game is more reproducible than Hawes. Another overlooked positive for JT is his durability.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
I'm in JT's corner but don't hate on Spencer at all. I think in time both will be
better than average players. Both need to mature in different ways. JT needs to learn how to take it out of hyper drive and in my opinion Spencer needs to just grow up a little, I consider him to very immature. With that said, I don’t think either is going to provide the interior defense the team needs.
Spencer does some nice things from the top of the key and high post and is capable of being an excellent passer and facilitating the offense the way Brad Miller used to.
David Thorpe mentioned in his chat on ESPN.com yesterday that all JT needs to do to reach his potential is to slow down a bit and let the game come to him. The question is will that ever happen? It hasn’t happened yet and he’s still making dumb touch, grabbing jerseys type of fouls that he was doing last year and he still hasn’t learned to control his emotions when he’s called for them.
As bte mentioned, JT is durable having missed only two games recently due to his cousin’s funeral. Spencer is very bright with a high basketball IQ and almost too much potential. The problem for the team is that neither player is quite ideal for their position and Brook Lopez is not available.
So with another draft coming soon in which we should have a good position and with good big men available we can draft one to add to the project to-do list and hope that he, JT and Shawes will all develop in time.
We can also use some of our assets, (Kevin, expirings, any of the kids besides ’Reke) and trade for a big that meets more of the teams needs in the frontcourt. This option is pretty painful for me, but in two possibly, three years for sure, the bloom of youth is off Kevin and that is likely when our drafted bigs are going to be starting to hit their prime.
Regardless of how you rank our assets I think in the long run one of our young bigs is going to have to go because interior defense is not a strong suit for either JT or Spence. If Kevin and ‘Reke develop as we hope, it becomes almost impossible not to trade one of them (JT/Hawes). If the backcourt doesn’t gel then Kevin becomes the obvious trade piece along with possibly either DontĂ© or Omri or a future draft pick.
At this point trading any of our kids or Kevin is almost heartbreaking to me but in the longer run unless we improve our defense in general and our interior defense in particular the Kings will never be able to achieve or compete for anything meaningful.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Brad played 4 years at Purdue
didn’t get drafted – and so was much older before anyone got a real look. But he was stronger even in college – no doubt (I’m a Purdue Alum)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
let me think about that
As a senior he was stronger anyway, its been a lot of years but I think he didn’t play much until he was a Junior. . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know if he'll ever be as good a shooter as Okur
Okur is pretty damn special shooting the 3. And I think Hawes has the potential to be more skilled.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Shooting is a skill that can be taught and perfected
Hawes already has a good shooting stroke, so there’s nothing to keep him from improving except effort and experience.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
he might not have really put in the time
plus his hands are so frickin large it’s like shooting a grapefruit.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
From what I've read and heard
He put a lot of time into it. He just never got it.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Some of it is mental.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Hawes is way, way ahead of JT in terms of skills
and is younger, I’d have to agree he’s more valuable. Of course I’ve been probably the #1 Hawpologist through this season.
Spencer is more coordinated than JT with either hand, has better presence and feel near the basket and is a better passer. JT is more athletic in terms of jumping ability, has quicker feet and is stronger, but athleticism isn’t his calling card really either. Spencer’s athletic limitations are vastly overstated. He’s a Center, he’s not ever going to be good at guarding 4s like JT will be, but as long as there are other real Centers (a dying breed in some ways), Spencer will be better than JT at guarding them.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
by Grasul on Feb 12, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But since Hawes can only really guard centers
That makes him a lot less versatile. And let’s be honest, he’s not really even good at guarding centers.
As I’ve said before, you can improve skills. You can’t improve athleticism.
He's very good at guarding centers
for a 21 year old. And JT is more versatile, which of course has valuable, but doesn’t ensure he’s more valuable.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
what can JT guard?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying he's great either
He fouls way too much. But he at least has the potential to keep up with quick 4s and the height to guard 5s.
I do not understand how anybody in their right mind thinks JT is a better defender than Spence.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think there's much of a difference right now, honestly
Neither of them are very good. I just wouldn’t mark that down as a point in Spencer’s favor.
I would.
We clearly are seeing different things.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
82games has opposing PER at:
20.5 for Thompson
19.5 for Hawes
I mean, if you want to say that Hawes sucks very slightly less abjectly than Thompson, I guess I can accept that.
It's not that.
I’m not saying JT sucks at rebounding (his defensive board% isn’t special but that’s a different argument) overall. Defensively? He has little ability to defend to guard his man because his footwork is terrible. What Spence has trouble is implementing. He’s just as athletic as JT is, but his footwork is a lot better at this point. What JT does is use his better body to his advantage against certain opponents.
And if the Kings were so good rebounding the ball against the Knicks, why did they go to a zone and give up o-boards time & time again?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Jesus
Those numbers highlight how we’re comparing a turd with a crap.
Neither guy sucks. Neither is a stud.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That stat isn't bulletproof
But simply by watching the games we know well that these two are excellent at turning opposing players into all-stars. Potential, sure, but as it stands, they are huge liabilities.
I disagree
that you can’t improve athleticism. You might not be able to improve it by too much, but he can improve it.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I agree
It is actually possible to improve on with the right conditioning – and just the body finishing the maturation process.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Not Shaq i can tell you that
I dunno maybe Bogut?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Good question
And I’m sure there are answers out there, I just can’t think of them off the top of my head.
Let me check into it.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Players don't get more athletic they get more fluid
JT isn’t any more athletic than Spence is.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Far more athletic?
No.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yes
You can’t watch the NYK game and tell me that Spencer would have gotten the rebounds that JT did. There’s a marked difference in athleticism.
No there isn't.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We rarely do.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's kind of a funny debate
because neither of them are very athletic, or can finish very strong around the rim
Yes but that isn't necessarily the best way to measure athleticism.
The main difference I see with JT is that he just doesn’t get tired like Spence will.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How about lateral quickness?
There are drills to improve that. Rope drills for example. I saw Donte doing those during some of the summer workout videos.
They both take fairly long strides. They can both run fairly fast, Hawes is sneaky fast, but they both have problems with sudden changes in direction.
I agree with you
but Spencer has coordination especially left handed JT will never have, which I also consider athletic. JT will always be a better rebounder though I agree with that.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Maybe that's it.
JT may be superior athletically, but lacks the coordination that Spence has. And there’s no question JT will always be a better rebounder cuz he can hit the O boards hard.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Bynum i would think
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Kaman
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Kaman's game has improved since he started shaving his palms
Hedo has improved athletecism and arguable Peja as well before his bad back. Nash has not improved athletecism but smarter. I see that as more important. (see Spurs, San Antonio)
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
i am referring to the difference in his body between his 1st and 2nd year
but either way it’s pretty damn subjective seems to me
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Kevin Love
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
What do you consider becoming more athletic?
There’s an entire crop of guys who came in before their bodies had finished maturing…look at LeBron’s physique rookie year vs. now. Or is this not what we’re talking about?
Well, my point is
Guys don’t really jump higher or get more mobile. Injuries and wear and tear gradually slow people down. You can improve strength, but not speed/jumping.
i can see how you can improve a little just with using better technique
Don’t know if I am really disagreeing with you much on this though since it’s kind of a question if it’s athleticism or technique
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
The purpose of plyometrics is to improve exactly those things that you mention
So using your own definition it is definitely possible to become more athletic.
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
Most Big men
as they get more comfortable in their bodies.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
almost every NBA player that had a decent career lately
has gotten more athletic during their career. Professional dieticians and trainers over a long period of time matter.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
This is really going to bug me
There was an article on a player about this earlier this year. The get more athletic by viture of being more fit.
Joakim Noah comes to mind
as a guy who kind of has left Spencer in the dust in terms of rate of development. Noah kicked ass in the gym over last off-season, by all reports. Becoming more athletic is difficult to ascertain if you are going to base it on something like vertical jump. Where players can make real strides is doing core body work, lowering their body fat, doing sprints and agility exercises, and heavy lifting with low reps to gain explosive power. Spencer can do a lot in this area that will translate to improved play down low. He has already improved his physique, but as he matures, and if he re-dedicates himself after relatively humbling season, there will be tangible payoff.
As Spencer develops, he will be able to hold his position on the block, something he can’t do that well now, time his jumps better for boards, absorb contact and start pushing instead of getting pushed. He is never going to be a bully down low, because he does not have the lower base and leverage, but give him time and he will figure it out.
JT is another story.
And to answer you question in general, ever successful player in the NBA has improved their body since entering the league. Athleticism is difficult to quantify but if you ask 100 players if they are physically more capable to deal with the rigors of the NBA from rookie year to veteran status, you’d likely get a unanimous favorable response. A players body is their livelihood and they won’t last long if they neglect it.
These are all good points
I think my concern with Spencer is that there are really three things limiting him, especially when it comes to rebounds: strength, jumping, and lateral quickness. I think he can improve his strength, but he’s always going to be mainly earthbound and I don’t think he’s going to be much quicker. And that, I think, really limits what he’s going to be capable of in the NBA.
I’m not saying he can’t get stronger or more coordinated. But I just don’t see his peak being particularly high.
Noah is a few years older isn't he?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
If classic means ugly beyond repair
Yes.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's a two way street, Will JT ever learn to defend PF or Centers?
He hasn’t so far, so is that a skill, athleticism, or mental. If it’s mental he may never learn.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Maybe their biggest problem is playing with each other.
Neither is strong enough defensively yet.
Spencer has more skills
in terms of shooting and passing, while JT has more athleticism and a faster motor. Both need to improve on defense, although they do show glimpses.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 12, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
JT's hands are much better than Spence's...
..the result of playing guard most of his formative basketball years. JT didn’t play the big positions until college! And as far as presence at the rim, it’s no contest. JT is better there, too. Recall that JT has had 4 and 5-assist games in the past. He’s no slouch on passing either. Plus, he’s in his second year, whereas Hawes is in his third. The third year is the make or break year, and I would fully expect JT to make strides next season.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
As much as he's been getting stripped lately
I don’t know about better hands. It (the strips) may be more about technique but…
Also two of TOs charged to Beno were right in his hands the other night.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, I do get frustrated w/ JT's tendency to put the goddamn ball on the floor after collecting a board
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with TZ also,
Spencer is a better Center than JT right now and probably in the future. JT probably is the better PF now and in the future. But, JT’s future as a starter will always be in question, because of his biggest impediment, and the fact that he isn’t long or a very high leaper. Plus until JT develops a left hand game and learns to us the backboard he will never have a decent low post game.
There are plenty of good centers that average 9 or less rebounds per game. But, not many are used to initiate the offense at the high post like Spencer. Last year they said Donte couldn’t play defense, so I’m not buying that a 21 yr old isn’t going to get better at rebounding. Spencer needs more experience and better anticipation and better timing in his leaps. It’s inexperience and not talent that’s holding him back.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I agree almost entirely with your list
I’m not sure I’d put Beno in the anti- assets as well as he’s played as i think the right team who has other problems to address over the next few years would find him a solid option.
Take a look at my latest Asinine Trade where I suggest that he actually fits the Triangle and the [redacted] very well, is cheaper than Heinrich, and could possibly facilitate getting TT.
The rest of the order seems exactly right to me.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 11:33 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think Beno would fit in great as the new Derek Fisher
by MichaelMack on Feb 12, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think its a good trade for all
IF the lakers can give the Bulls their 2011 1st. I’m still waiting for pookey or someone to tell me as the last time the question came up the answer seemed to be both yes and no.
Loopholes I guess.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you there lttg
Beno has been the most consistent guy on this year’s squad. He has been a solid backup combo guard (who can’t defend) and valuable at the end of games for his FG shooting, creating and FT shooting.
Is he worth the MLE? I would be curious to see the list of players who sport the MLE designation to get an idea of relative value.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
I feel like 2010 pick is rated too high
but I’m basing that mostly off the schedule easing up a little for the remainder of the season. It is not going to be November/December easy, but I think we’ll finish in the 8-10 area.
I would move it down below Donte, and it pains me to say it, but above JT still. I’m starting to see JT as more of a 2nd team energy guy now. Still valuable of course.
We max out at #8 at this point I think
I can’t see us getting to 10. I’ve had that opinion on JT (mostly) since last year.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Wow...dude has a bad stretch and you guys are ready
to relegate him to the bench!?!
I wonder why so many GMs who have discussed trade scenarios (reportedly) keep asking that JT be included in the deal? Why aren’t they asking for Hawes?
It’s probably because JT is the better player…just a guess.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
according to Aykis' survey a few weeks ago
Hawes was mentioned much more often.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I just got back from South America after three weeks
I’ve missed some things, I suppose! :)
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
It was the other SB nation guys like TZ
still . . . .
It was a great post, you should look for it. What all those guys said they needed and or wanted to get rid of on their teams.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
It got 80 rec's or something
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
by your going down there
it caused the toilets to flush backwards on the Kings won/loss record
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Lol!
Well, no wonder they are on a two-game winning streak! I got back Saturday night.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
So why didn't they win in Toronto?
Your magic sucks PK.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
PK's Magic only works in the United States.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
True dat
It was AMAZING!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Peru is the best out of all of them
You guys are missing out big time
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Question, Ed
I realize this may be offensive, but I worked with a whole bunch of Peruvians a while back. Some were really nice and humble (some of my favorite people to work with), but some were really cocky and antagonistic towards America—always talking about how much better Peru was. The Mexicans I worked with seemed much less compelled to complain about things like the American banking system.
I realize that they’re definitely not representative of the whole Peruvian population, but it really bugged me that they complained about a country that they weren’t forced to come to. Would you say that Peruvians are more or less anti-American than your South American neighbors?
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Good question
I’ll be completely honest and say that I don’t know. Every group has different people and you may have just encountered the “bad” Peruvians. I know a lot of people from other countries that also act somehow anti-American.
As far as I know, it isn’t a predominant thing in Peru to resent or even hate the US. I think it depends a lot of where the people fall within the social class spectrum. Hope that didn’t sound bad, but that’s really how I see it. If you’re working class and weren’t well off back in your country, it’s possible that it is harder for that person to understand what’s going on.
One thing to always keep in mind, when people talk about how “better back home” they most likely miss it a lot and they just want to come back. I know I was like that when I first moved to the states.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Thanks for the reply
If you’re working class and weren’t well off back in your country, it’s possible that it is harder for that person to understand what’s going on.
In my experience, the ones that were more likely to complain were the more affluent ones, although some of my best friends there were also well-to-do (though they had married Americans). The Mexicans had generally come out of poverty.
Living in Japan (and Guatemala before Japan), I know how easy it can be to bag on the local customs—but I try not to. I really do love it here (and in Guate), and life is much more enjoyable if you celebrate the differences, rather than attack them. When I move back to the US, I will miss a lot of things about Japan, just like I do about Guatemala now.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
That's true too
Because you had a nice life back wherever home is. I guess it just comes down to every group having different types of people.
I agree that it’s better to embrace and have an open mind about the new place; it makes things easier. From experience, though, I know it’s tough at first. It really comes down to why you moved to the new place in the first place. It was awful for me when I moved here because I was young adn was pretty much forced by my parents to leave everything I knew and come to the States. Of course, that was the best decision they could’ve made, but at the time I didn’t see it.
I bet that it is also tough for adults when they ‘have to’ move instead of having the option to move. Some people may think it’s always an option but it really isn’t. Or if it is an option, the decision comes down to whether you want to have something to eat at night or not.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I would say that Kenny Thomas's contract IS an asset.
By virtue of the fact that it’s expiring. Which I totally agree, has more value to us before the 18th, but the fact that we have a significant amount of money coming off the books this summer (7.5M? 9.5?) even if we don’t trade it, is an asset in terms of the flexibility to sign someone serviceable who fits our needs. Unless of course we overpay. At least that’s how i see it.
Unless the Kings are taking back salary past this summer
K9’s contract has no value. That’s the point.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
???
if you get some how miraculously get rid of the beno contract or the noc contract, which one do you get rid of?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Whichever one you can.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think Beno's more useful
Which is why teams would be willing to trade for him as opposed to Noc.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Right
Rather get rid of Noc, but Beno would be easier to move.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Segio vs Garcia
My thought is Sergio is over Garcia right now, because Garcia is too much of unknown until say the seasons over. Sergio could go to multiple teams right now, is a cheap EC contract and is a good player. Garcia hasn’t been on court for a long while, has a very long contract and could not be traded at all. I know you base this off what he used to produce, but I don’t think he should be that high unless you can for sure tell me what he is going to produce post injury
Judgment day is coming!
Where's Kayte?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 12, 2010 12:18 PM PST reply actions
She puts the Ass in Asset.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
(so many inappropriate jokes)
(don’t want to get banned)
(must resist … must resist)
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Kayte's no joke that's for sure!
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
Nope!

When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice profile
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 12, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
Every man wants to be taller
but she makes want to be taller and maybe even a little better on the inside.
Higher for "the Show"
“The Show” for me is like a lot of peoples Kevin Martin around here. I just think the dude has a ton of upside. He runs the floor well, can shoot the 3 ball (needs to work on his free throws), can defend the likes of Mello, Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, and play 3 positions and is only a junior in college and has some “stones” If PW would have been here last year, I can only imagine where Donte could be right now.
I think in a few years it will be the Evans, Donte, and whoever we get to be our center show and this team will be really good.
I say Evans no. 1 and Donte is far behind Evans, but ahead of most of the others. I definitely keep him, then Casspi and would rather lose JT, Spence, Martin and all the others before those 3.
by noreboundsnorings on Feb 12, 2010 12:24 PM PST reply actions
Agree
I’m not sure if we win either of the last two games if Donte doesn’t hit clutch 3s at tjust the right moment to keep us in the game (Knicks) or fuel the run that put the Pistons away. I think I would move both Donte and Casspi ahead of Hawes. More athletic, more upside.
I’d rank May ahead of Armstrong if it came down to a choice between the two to fiill a bottom-of-the-roster spot.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 12, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Armstrong should be higher...
We’re talking trade assets. I disagree that Armstrong and May have no value. Expiring contracts always get moved esp. in multi-team deals or when shedding big contracts. They have no value as players, true, but as trade assets they both tons of value. It doesn’t matter how they play, they both are contracts that come off the budget for 2010 FA that everyone has been dumping and waiting for. Not having expiring contracts can kill a deal.
I’d rank both in the assets at the very least if not higher than Cisco!
I hate seeing JT that low on the list but I understand why you put him there.
On the other hand, when he had his mind engaged and was playing well and Spencer’s play was out to lunch you could easily flip them.
The thing that I don’t understand is where do the assets line up in light of a glut of free agents this summer, a reduction in the cap this summer and a radical restructuring in the CBA the season after next. A MLE contract down the road is going to maybe the third or 4th highest salary on most teams. if in fact the players cave and end up taking less than 50% of the pie.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
JT isn't finishing at the rim
as TZ pointed out. Thats a cardinal sin for an energy guy like him. The story isn’t over, it just doesn’t look good right now. Even in his statistically OK games lately he really hasn’t looked good.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Among other problems
JT’s not finishing anywhere, except off occasional put back. A bench role may suite him best for a while to get his head together, if thats possible, and not spaz out as much over legitimate foul calls.
If Donte can stretch the defense, and make perimeter shots, and get 5-7 rebounds a game, he offers so much more dynamic potential at the PF position to spread the floor, and open the lane for Tyreke and K-Mart. Donte can be a finisher on the break, and he and Tyreke have fun playing together.
Since I hold JT and Noce primarily responsible for W/L record free fall, I’d like to see Donte start for indefinite time at PF. After a two game win streak following a woeful stretch worse than anything last year, another change by PW in starting line-up would be ludicrous.
I don't like seeing him so low either.
Coming into the season, JT was one of my favorite players. I had high hopes for him from his rookie season where he really shined. But, for whatever reason, he has really struggled this season. The way he has been coping with the problems hasn’t helped him any. He has become very emotional and seems immature. Whether he can pull himself together and finish off the season on a high note has yet to be seen. He is frequently compared with Spencer. However, Spencer has been turning his game around, of late, and is now seen in a much more positive light.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
With regard to our bigs
I think both of them still have plenty to prove before they project to be better than the 5th best starter or #1 big off the bench for a good team.
JT and Spencer both project to be really good bench players at least I would say, but both have the potential to be more. We’ll see which steps up, but I will say I still have very high hopes for both. The way JT played in New York, if that gets bottled, basically being a really skilled high energy guy, that’s a good player on any team.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Yikes
A Georgian (russian) died at the Olympics today. Flipped off the luge track.
Not a good start.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Yeah I read about that
Sad. Nothing’s going right for the Olympics this year, and they haven’t even started.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
They just withdrew from the Olympics as a team
and they are meeting on that luge course today as too dangerous.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 12, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
flippin' Ruskies
now they are starting a cold war
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
I don't blame them.
The course sounded like it may have had some design flaws.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
This seems pretty inline with what Aykis posted
It was interesting to read that most other teams were interested in Spencer and not so much JT. I would have thought that interest would be little closer anyway.
I think most teams see JT with limited upside.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Where was this? Most of what I've seen has teams asking for JT.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Aykis posted his trade throughts from around the NBA.
More bloggers wanted Spence than JT.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This list is backwards.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Feb 12, 2010 1:15 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I know!
It SHOULD be:
1. Snave Ekeryt
2. Nitram Nivek
3. Kcip dnuor-tsrif 0102
4. Sewah Recneps
5. Ipssac Irmo
6. Eneerg Etnod
7. Nospmoht Nosaj
8. Kcip dnuor-tsrif 1102
9. Namkcorb Noj
10. Aicrag Ocsicnarf
11. Zeugirdor Oigres
12. Kcip dnuor-dnoces 0102
N/A. Grnortsmra Notlih
N/A. Samoht Ynnek
N/A. Yam Naes
Neg. Hirdu Oneb
Neg. Inoicon Serdna
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 10 recs
How long did that joke take you?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Actually not all THAT long
I really like some of the names, actually. Snave Ekeryt sounds like a character from Harry Potter.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'd also like to call Sergio Zeugirdor Oigres from now on.
Zeugirdor is a pretty badass name.
Overall the entire list ends up looking like the menu at an Indian restaurant.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the funny part
is that if someone told me there was some up and coming Eastern European and they gave me any of these names I would totally believe it
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Just wait until we draft Hcirdla Eloc or Renrut Nave next year!
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 12, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Lol
Ipssac Irmo!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
I think
Quincy Douby should have been higher on the list
free special ed.
by Swissy14 on Feb 12, 2010 2:54 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Brockness
I find it funny that now you guys are all ‘why did we only sign him for one year?’ when initially everyone was like ‘why are we wasting money on this guy?’.
Brockman converts. Hell to the YES.
Have to admit, he’s probably a little bit better for Sacramento than Portland considering he’s much more country than metro. He couldn’t have been sent to a better location/team.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs, Go Blazers, Go Tarheels!
Douchey
Actually, no one thought we were wasting money on him. We all knew he’d be super cheap and worth it for whatever he did for us. We liked the guy from the get go.
As far as your somewhat ignorant statement about Sac is concerned I’m going to break our little no name calling rule and say that you, my friend, are a fucking idiot!
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Feb 12, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
believe it or not
When i lived in Spokane others who lived there tried talking shit about how Sacramento is a cow town.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 12, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Wait...is this dude from P-Town or SLC?
If Portland, well…I’ll say you have a nice little city there. I’d live there if I could stand the fucking rain and would not want to kill myself over never seeing the sun. Seriously, I really like Portland, but goddamn that weather sucks! Plus, most of your chicks are fat. There are some hotties in Portland, but there are many more here.
If you’re from SLC…Well, go f yourself or whichever 15 year-old you’ve managed to place into marital slavery in the name of religion, you bike-riding, tie-wearing delusional bastard.*
*I have Mormon friends, so I can say these things. I also realize not everyone from SLC is Mormon, but I’m trying to cut to the core here.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Feb 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He's from Seattle PK.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
?
*I have Mormon friends, so I can say these things.
I have Jewish friends, so it’s okay for me to be an anti-semite.
I have gay friends, so it’s okay for me to be a homophobe.
Don’t be a dick.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I thought Mormons couldn't curse?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We have mouths just like everybody else
And it’s not like there’s some master list of words that we can or can’t use. We’re all free to make our own choices. I, for one, choose to call people “dick” when they’re acting like dicks.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
We have mouths just like everybody else
Thanks for the update Jedi. I did always wonder.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
hate tastes bad
keep it out of your mouth
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn't taste like chicken does it?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Let me get this straight
Somebody from Portland is calling Sacramento small? LMAO. That’s precious.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Feb 12, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How is his reply the least bit controversial?
We bring cowbells to Arco Arena, for Pete’s sake. Sacramento’s got the blue collar feel that Brockman’s perfect for. How is that offensive? It’s totally true.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
The NBA banned the Cowbells.
But yes I get it. I don’t know that I see Sac as a blue collar town exactly, but sure. I don’t think Jon Brockman would have problems anywhere. He’s a popular player. The guy who wrote this is a clearly a dumb Husky’s homer.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Right
Different people have different perception re: the blue/white collar thing, but Sacramento as a blue collar town is hardly something unheard of or even remotely offensive. And the guy’s right about some people wondering about the Brockman draft and signing. I’d say many of us did want Brockman signed, but there were plenty of people wondering if he was a waste of a pick and subsequent contract (if I remember correctly).
Either way, nothing this guy said was worthy of an offensive, misinformed attack on Mormons. There are a few of us here on StR, and we don’t go around bashing other groups.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I don't disagree Jedi. I used to make LDS jokes from time to time. But mostly because it amused me.
Something tells me that PK was making one of those dumb jokes to illustrate his point. Call it a hunch.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But yeah
You’re right about Brockman being popular anywhere—due to his work ethic.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I think we can agree that snobbery is stupid.
Regardless of the source or intention.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Of course
To me, “metro” has always seemed self-effacing. As in, “yeah, we Portlanders are snobby metro geeks.” Not that I necessarily agree with it, but that’s the vibe that I got from his post. Of course, I could be completely wrong.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
And truthfully
I’ve never been to Portland. Is it really that much different than Sacramento? Aren’t they both small-market western cities with lots of suburbs?
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Portland is more of a city than Sac is. It's also the biggest city in Oregon so you would probably expect it to be more of a destination.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For Phuture Kings
Here’s the link to my trade post.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Damn forgot the link
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

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