Amick on Dan Fegan/Geoff Petrie Relationship
by Tom Ziller on Feb 19, 2010 10:24 AM PST
in Commentary
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PrintThis is all sort of water under the bridge, but it's still illustrative, I think. In his deadline story, Sam Amick of The Bee apparently got into how Kevin Martin's hiring of Dan Fegan as an agent didn't sit well with Geoff Petrie. A section was edited out of the story, though. So Sam posted about it on the Bee's blog. It didn't last long -- there was a line critical of Bee editors who pulled the section from the story; I'm guessing that's why the blog has been disappeared.
Thanks to HoopsHype, though, we have a paragraph of the missing post.
In the P.R. world, they call this "controlling the story." I've never done that much, considering I'm typically the one writing the stories. But this is necessary, fair, and important. Dan Fegan represented Ricky Rubio. That incredibly relevant fact wasn't deemed so by the folks who edited today's piece on Kevin Martin. It really matters, though, because Fegan - who represents Martin - was quoted saying he thinks the drafting of Tyreke Evans led to Martin's departure. What was also left out was this reality: Martin's hiring of Fegan didn't sit well with Petrie, as the agent is among the most influential in the game and known for putting serious pressure on teams if his guy doesn't want to be in the current locale.
That's all that HoopsHype posted, and there's no apparent cached version of the pulled post. I haven't gotten a response from Sam yet. Bill Bradley, sports editor of The Bee, quickly responded to a query to say "it's a subject that I am not prepared to talk about right now."
UPDATE: Sam has posted on the Fegan thing and explained why the old post was pulled.
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Censorship is always bad.
The Bee has the right to edit its content as it sees fit, but with the internet, the truth will be known at some point.
I love newspapers. And I will miss them.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
lol
I love newspapers. And I will miss them.
But Andy, clearly they “get it”, right? Right?
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
It is unfortunate
The world will be a less safe place without newspapers and reporters like Sam who actually do what’s necessary in order to investigate and dig out information. Bloggers have done some remarkable things, but I still sleep better at night knowing that there are suspicious people out there who buy ink by the barrel.
Obviously, my concern is a great deal larger than sports.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Feb 19, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I read the story before it got yanked.
This is so obvious to anyone that reads Sam’s blog when it updates. This type of censorship only affects people who read hardcopy.
by mayfieldcol on Feb 19, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
How very amateur of the editors
As usual Sam is doing a good job digging into things and it is too bad that his editors don’t allow him to write the truth, no matter how uncomfortable that might be for some.
It is too bad that the need to kiss the derrieres of some leads to censorship of this sort. Because the really stupid thing about this is that by pulling it they just let everybody know how all too true and how close to the mark this hit.
Has it occured to any of you,
that while that may be an interesting bit of InsideBasketball trivia, it’s not necessarily interesting AT ALL to your average Sports Page reader. Most people read the Sports Page to catch up on stats and other pertinent updates. Not conspiracy theories. Even if the Consiracies are acurate they are still just conjecture. The Bee is an awful newspaper as are most, but get rid of awful editors and you still have awful writers like Sam Amick. Sam is wrong 97% of the time. He’s worse than a Weather Man. You guys talk about him like you hang out and drink beers with him, or rather, like you wish you could hang out and drink beers with him. Why is that?
Hi Grant
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Feb 19, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll have to give you credit for that.
I don’t listen to Grant outside his Play by Play. But I assume he’s an idiot. And hence, your taking a shot at me. Touche! Very Funny.
Otis is good at taking shots
When your point is on target and he doesn’t have anything of substance to say in response.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Blueballer:
Sam is wrong 97% of the time.
coolcatreport:
Otis is good at taking shots when your point is on target
Your honor, I rest my case.
Like shooting fish in a barrel Carl
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I am still wondering
about that mysterious lead from Amick’s blog before the Golden State game:
There is a bigger story going on here as it pertains to Kings shooting guard Kevin Martin, but this is not the time nor the place to go into every last detail.
If the “bigger story” was the looming trade, why not report it then instead of getting scooped by the national press on the biggets story of his career a few hours later?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Amick was talking trade
Because in an interview he said he didn’t know why martin hit the bench at half time.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
I understand
A reporter is in a tough position when dealing with sources he had to work with every day. I think the tricky thing is not being used by those sources to leak non-existent trades, etc. Or write too much, and those sources suddenly clam up and you suddenly can’t deliver the goods to your reads.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Peaches alluded to their being more to K-Mart story as well (after the fact).
Coming from such a douche, I wasn’t sure if it was just cheap cover for him bashing Martin, or if there was actually more to the story that hasn’t been aired.
I stand corrected
That probably should have just read:
Otis is good at taking shots when he doesn’t have anything of substance to say in response.
That’s probably where the 97% number could come in handy.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
You stand corrected regularly
It’s pretty much assumed at this point.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
coolcat
In this debate I believe the 97% of StR sides with Otis.
I am 97% positive that you only believe 3% of the crap you spout when you’re trying to rile people up.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
That's cool
If a few shots come my way for writing something not supported by the StR Groupthinkers, I can handle that. But I know that number is not close to 97%.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
I think 97% is too high as well
The basketball savvy/basketball moron ratio here is closer to 95/5, maybe 92.5/7.5.
So you’ve got that going for you, which is nice.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Are you talking +/-?
Cause I thought that was a flawed statistic… Might it be better to just round up?
small sample.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Feb 19, 2010 3:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You're making my point
If someone agrees with you, they are apparently “basketball savvy”; if not, they are a "basketball moron. " So much for an honest exchange of opinions.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Ahh dude.
Did you read the ratio. He just complimented you. He says that you are 92.5 to 95% savvy and 5-7.5% moron. That really ain’t so bad…
Not at all
I bet you can’t find five people at this site (that have been here more than a few months) that I haven’t had some kind of disagreement with. Generally, I’m a pretty disagreeable guy across the board – go ahead, ask anyone.
That doesn’t make them “morons” – as in your case, the full body of work is the determining factor.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I was pro Rubio early on when Otis was with Tyreke
and Sam AMick is a freaking great beat writer.
CC the difference between you and Otis
Is that when anyone disagrees with you, you attribute it to group think. Otis will consider the fact that maybe he is wrong, he may quickly dismiss it, but he will consider it.
That is a trait you need to pick up in my humble opinion.
But who am I to give life lessons? I was against torture and the American public seemed to think I was on the wrong side the moral line on that one.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Don't go telling people how to act on the 2nd day of your being here.
That’s 1. 2, he wasn’t bringing politics into it. Know what the fuck you’re talking about before you tell others not to do something. It’s usually recommended dickhead.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
The posts here are opinions in most cases
Not facts.
My opinion is just that, and it doesn’t make it right or wrong, and it’s the same with every other poster. I generally try to be respectful and I think I succeed more often than not, but when someone calls you “Napes” or a “moron” or a “troll” just because they disagree with you, it gets real old. As does the “friendly” advice as to what I should post and how.
If you disagree with what I have to say, just say why.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
All snark aside
I generally try to be respectful
Come on CCR…this is crap and you know it. Your tendency is to push the buttons you know will get a reaction. Sure, you very rarely come out and call someone a moron directly. You’re just real subtle about it, which gives you a chance to hold up your arms like you’re the unprovoked, aggrieved party.
I don’t know if that works on some other message boards, but I think most of StR figured you out a few years back.
Tell you what – as much as I enjoy heckling you, and think you deserve to be put in your place from time to time, I’ll stop. Well, for as long as I can stand it anyways. I’ll leave it up to everyone else to point out your passive-aggressive trolling.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Subtlety is good
I appreciate subtlety. I can work with that.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
A little more subtlety is needed
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
like Cool beans Ulysses
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
If I wanted to bury utter dislike in harmonious subtlety while mocking the rooster I’d certainly trounce around in fancier trousers. If I wanted to embark on a creative disassembling of a likemind, I’d invest in metaphorical distress to relate parables from past paragraphs into parentheticals pertinent to the preposterous ploy. Instead of turning the others delusion into my own mental prison of sickening sycophancy by serving the others smuggery which smacks of smart-aleck small-mindedness, I’d rather smile with dumbed down derogatories that deny the dim-witted their dastardly desires.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
by iashwash on Feb 19, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So what's the Kings record
when more than 4 or more StR groupthinkers call you out on some BS?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Feb 19, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I wanted to stay out of it
But this is too funny.
Ok, now I’m staying out of it.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Here is a tip for you -
Never use the term “Groupthinkers” in your posts, unless you are out to provoke someone here. If you want to provoke, then use the term liberally.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I agree ...that phrase pisses me off
especially since no one lets me in their group willingly and I avoid thinking as much as possible
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Even if the Consiracies are acurate they are still just conjecture.
You guys talk about him like you hang out and drink beers with him, or rather, like you wish you could hang out and drink beers with him. Why is that?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Conjecture?
con·jec·ture (k n-j k ch r). n. 1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork. 2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion …
www.thefreedictionary.com/conjecture -
Challenge time
Sam has written a lot so there are lots of things he could be wrong about. Start naming them. Now. Come on.
You say he is wrong about all this stuff and I want to hear just what this is that he is so wrong about. Otherwise, you are just a hyperbolic moron who can’t make a point without sabotaging him and not having shit to back up your point.
So, are you just full of shit like Grant Napear?
BlueBaller, you have no clue
I can’t speak to the overall quality of the Bee other than that I read it’s online Kings/49ers/Giants stuff.
You are so wrong about Sam Amick. He is an excellent writer, highly regarded and admired by both newspaper sports writers as well as blog editors/owners/writers. He is held in high regard by other writers I really respect across the nation. Sam is almost never wrong with the stuff for the newspaper or his online blog. The reason he’s rarely wrong is he doesn’t speculate or fan the rumor fires. When he says something is going to happen it usually does becauses he’s one of the few sportswriters out there who actually has inside sources among the King’s staff.
I’m going to add you to the growing list of posters here that I just scroll right on by. Better yet, why don’t you just leave.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
MustangMBS and BlueJohn
Sam has never asserted that a trade was being discussed involving Kevin Martin? Because if he did, he never mentioned Carl Landry. In fact his name never came up by anyone. Sam Amick didn’t say that we were hiring Eddie Jordan and it was a done deal? Or that we were hireing Kurt Rambis and that was a done deal? Okefur, Dalembert, Iguodala, on and on and on. People always talk about how secretive Petrie is and then go on and speculate about moves he’s going to make and they are virtually always wrong. And that includes Sam Amick. I’m sure he’s a nice guy and his job isn’t easy. But rather than asking me to dive into the archives and point out every single time he’s been wrong, I challenge you to name 1, that’s right 1, time that he has been right. I don’t pay any attention to hearsay, rumor, and speculation, and I don’t respect people who traffic in it. I want news. As in something that has already happened that I don’t know about. If I’m wondering if Kevin Martin is going to be traded and, if so, who for, I’ll ask my dog. Because he’ll be as likely to tap his paw the correct number of times, to add up in the total letters of the name of the player in question, as Sam Amick ,or any other sports writer for that matter, is likely to do.
You might want to add some links...
…to stuff Sam has written that you can show that is untrue. Because this wall of text stuff ain’t cutting it.
Just my opinion – but you need to bring something a little stronger, because you’re making a pretty crappy impression so far.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Feb 19, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You stated that Sam is wrong 97% of the time and are now refusing to back this up
That is pretty bogus. Now you want to turn it around on me? Ask me to point out when he has been right? I can do this, but there really isn’t a point. The burden is on you and only you.
Here is the thing. You are the one attacking Sam’s veracity, his truthfulness, and his trustworthiness as a reporter. You are the one who is attacking his professional credibility as a reporter and because of that YOU have something to prove here. Not me.
So, you either put up or shut up. Bottomline here. You prove your point and now or you are nothing more than a douche bag.
by MustangMBS on Feb 19, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How was Sam wrong in naming any of those players during the last month or so?
He merely mentioned that their names came up in trade discussions, or that they may be had for the right price. Sam never said one of those names was going to be a king.
This body holding me, reminds me of my own mortality, embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion-MJKeenan
No way
Have you read the stuff written by any other SacBee reporter on the Kings? I have read a few things the so called editor, Bill Bradley, wrote and he clearly has no clue about the Kings. Then you have fluff pieces by Voisin. Sam is the man.
Yeah but don't forget
They kept guys like Graswich and MacNeal on the payroll for years and stuck guys like Scott Howard-Cooper on the high school football beat.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Scoop did something and got busted down.
And then he got jobs for SI and NBA.com. They may suspend Sam, but it would be stupid to let him go. He and Barrows are the best thing going at the Bee.
by mayfieldcol on Feb 19, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
For Sam's actions they shoud fire Aileen Voison.
by mayfieldcol on Feb 19, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
going green
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 19, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
even a blind squirrel mayfield...
just kidding :-)
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Someone mention Squirrels?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I read this this morning
As I recall there was not much more censored than what shpwed up in the hoopshype article
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Not that it really matters, but
That’s all that HoopsHype posted, and there’s no apparent cached version of the pulled post.
was definitely in there, I read it just after he posted. I can’t imagine any repercussions for Sam. The Fegan thing is interesting.
So the "get me the hell out of here" call was most likely to his agent
As much as I would hate to deal with an agent like that if I were a GM I would probably love him as a player. It didn’t work out so good for Ricky Rubio though. I thought the circus he brought to Sac was ridiculous & maybe so did GP.
I love beating dead horses.
That seems to be the implication, but there is nothing to back that up.
We are just left to ponder whether it was Kevin who wanted to pull the trigger on Sacramento and had his agent lean on Petrie.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The editor/writer relationship can be so annoying
Why would they edit out the graf on Fegan? It’s very relevent to the article and if it were a space issue there were plenty of other things that could have been cut.
This is why I blog (you know, besides the whole noone’s hiring thing). Even if I desperatly need an editor, they always end up editing out my favorite parts.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Feb 19, 2010 11:24 AM PST via mobile reply actions
There really seemed to be no point in editing it out
it seemed relevant to the story but it wasn’t written to be a big deal.
www.mancancook.net
The internet
The blog post by amick is still cached by bing.
I’ve saved the text in case bing’s cache actually updates.
The text that was edited out
While Martin hadn’t reached the point of demanding a trade, the sixth-year player from Western Carolina University had been pining over the notion of being put in a better situation for months and didn’t see himself in Sacramento beyond this summer.
But the change that had the lasting effect – according to Martin’s agent, Dan Fegan – was the drafting of rookie guard Tyreke Evans. Evans, the University of Memphis product who is a leading Rookie of the Year candidate, was selected fourth overall over a fellow Fegan client in Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio. As Fegan sees it, Evans’ style was clearly not conducive to Martin’s and the end result was inevitable.
Yet Fegan’s eventual pairing with Martin was problematic and telling on its own, as Petrie had experienced somewhat-contentious dealings with the agent during the Rubio saga in June.
by wabut on Feb 19, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Contentious
because RR wouldn’t work out with any other players, wouldn’t commit to a buyout.
May not ever come to the NBA.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 19, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
The press, censorship, and scared reporters
I am glad Sam dug into this, because for me this is real reporting and not just stating some facts or the score.
Do you know how Tiger Woods got away with all his crap for the last few years. Nobody challanged him. Ten years ago if you were a golf beat writer, who cared? Once Tiger came along there were tons of golf writers. If you wanted access to Tiger you better make sure you printed some nice fluff about Tiger. Write a negative article about Tiger and you lost access to Tiger. Lose access to Tiger and you lost your expense account, your plane tickets all over the golf circuit, and maybe your job.
Who would give all that up just to say something bad about Tiger? Apparently no one.
Not sure if this applies to today’s blog, but there seems to be more that went on than many us know.
by noreboundsnorings on Feb 19, 2010 11:27 AM PST reply actions
this is true
…not just for sports writers. unfortunately.
by henryclemente on Feb 19, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with you to a point
Do you know how Tiger Woods got away with all his crap for the last few years. Nobody challanged him.
That is 100% true. The important difference, I would suggest, is that Tiger Woods’ personal life is, no matter how famous he is, no one’s business. If he wants to bang strippers and waitresses, that’s his choice, it has no bearing on what he’s famous for, which is golf. I understand why this sort of bilge is interesting to a lot of people, but it’s still entirely irrelevant.
In the case of Fegan, his making oblique threats to Petrie and the Kings organization about Kevin Martin vis-à-vis the drafting of Rubio is not only a sports story, but a business story. I don’t know how someone educated in the law might perceive it, but my understanding is that when the Mafia does this sort of thing, it’s called “coercion.”
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
That is 100% true. The important difference, I would suggest, is that Tiger Woods’ personal life is, no matter how famous he is, no one’s business. If he wants to bang strippers and waitresses, that’s his choice, it has no bearing on what he’s famous for, which is golf. I understand why this sort of bilge is interesting to a lot of people, but it’s still entirely irrelevant.
My only reaction to Tiger banging his way through half of prostitutedom: Well, that’s not surprising. People need to get a grip, the guy is a golfer, we shouldn’t care what he does outside of golf if it doesn’t affect his golf. Last I checked, massive amounts of swinging doesn’t make your golf drive longer, therefore no one should give a fk.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Where are the facts that support that Fegan made any "threats" or engaged in "coercion."
If there was any influence by Fegan, it may have been as simple as a phone in which he may have stated something to the effect that his client no longer wishes to play for the Kings and wants to be traded immediately.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The irony in all of this...
So many people here have been saddened, in mourning, etc. over the loss of Kevin. Some have been angry at the Kings franchise for them trading Kevin behind his back. It is rather humorous to think that this whole trade may have occurred because of Kevin’s actions. Perhaps it was Kevin who complained bitterly to his agent to help him go to another team to get him out of Sacramento. Perhaps it was Kevin’s agent who put pressure on the franchise to have Kevin traded to another team. If that is the case, then the laugh is on us, who felt to feel sorry for Kevin, while Kevin was laughing and texting messages all the way on his plane trip to Houston. No wonder he didn’t call Petrie, personally to say his final goodbye. Ha Ha Ha, Kevin got the last laugh!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I reported on here a couple of days ago
that Martin made a call after his second to last game (the one when he left before the media came in) in which he said quote, “get me out of here now”. As stated by me earlier I didn’t know if it was his driver for that night or his agent. The source I heard it from has connections. I guess my friend was right. After all of this, there is no doubt in my mind that Kevin asked for a trade.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
I posted my information about this call the day of his last game about what had happened the night before.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
You had the early scoop!
Sacramento must have been hell for Kevin this past year.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I did read that quote, but in context of all the sarcasm on this site,
I thought that was a joke. Sometimes on this site, I can’t tell if someone is serious or not. Someone on here gave me this advice, if you aren’t sure, assume it is sarcasm, which is what I did. Sorry that I didn’t take you more seriously.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
To be fair though - I really am no one important when it relates to basketball
I just happened to hear it from a friend that I have known for a long time and knew he wouldn’t feed me lies.
He didn’t know if it was his agent or someone pickning him up either. I think we all know know that it was his agent.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
if thats true...
then peace out kmart. i was a little sad because, like most fans, i was emotionally attached to a particular player on my favorite team. but after reading that kmart wanted out (assuming its true), i have much more anticipation to see how the new players pan out.
I'm not very smart, so help me out on this
Why would the Bee editors want to keep the stuff about Fegan-as-villian out of the story? They left Fegan’s quote in there about how it’s essentially all Petrie’s fault for drafting Tyreke and Tyreke’s fault for doing what he do (even though Martin is on record several times saying he wanted us to draft Tyreke and was excited to play with him), and took out the context of Fegan’s conflict of interest in this? I just don’t get what the Bee stands to gain by letting Fegan sully Petrie and Evans without the context. It’s certainly not the first time that I’ve thought of Bradley as incompetent, but this is just bizarre.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 19, 2010 11:29 AM PST reply actions
It's the Rubio connection...
I don’t think they had any problem with negative stuff about Fegan. They left all that in. It’s the Rubio connection that they edited out. Not sure why. Speculatory, maybe? Then when Amick blogged about the censorship, they took that down too because it was critical of Bee editors.
by henryclemente on Feb 19, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
"Speculatory maybe?"
Yes conjecture. Even if accurate, it stil borders on Wild Speculation and doesn’t belong in a news article unless the writer points out that it’s wild speculation. Wild speculation has become a problem with News stories Across The Board. “Just the facts, Ma’am.”
You're either horribly naive
or searching for something that likely never existed in the first place.
The people that bring you the facts have always had a vested interest in how the story is reported; they just don’t even bother to hide it anymore.
Sort of like when a poster says “Sam is wrong 97% of the time”. Really? that seems unlikely to me; it seems to say more about the agenda of the poster than Sam Amick.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I don’t see why they edited really, nothing taken out was terribly inflammatory. Martin felt out of place on the team full of younguns, had hired an agent that Petrie didn’t get along with, and wanted to leave Sacto. wheee.
by TheFifthMookie on Feb 19, 2010 11:33 AM PST reply actions
One item that makes me wonder
Bill Bradley, sports editor of The Bee, quickly responded to a query to say “it’s a subject that I am not prepared to talk about right now.”
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Since Im not out there and dont follow Sacto media, this is a wild guess:
but as most journalists know, simply follow the money.
Im guessing there were worried about this line: “agent is …. known for putting serious pressure on teams if his guy doesn’t want to be in the current locale.”
could be potentially libelous.
The only other thing I could think of: Bad words about Fegan and Petrie could harm Kings relationship with future clients of Fegan, thus harming Kings which could possibly harm Kings relationship with Bee, thus costing ad dollars for Bee and so on and so on ….
of course, newspapers are always skittish when it comes to taking on deep pocketed people (Fegan) with powerful attorneys. they simply dont have the money anymore to fight things in court and must pick their battles.
Actually im at work right now, and i dont think I read the original post correctly----
not sure exactly what was cut from story.
by VirginiaBlue on Feb 19, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
So what?
Petrie was suposed to pass on the one of the best players if not thee best player in the draft for an overhyped prima donna with a pushy agent so Kevin Martin doesn’t have to leave? Hopefully Fegan is Devin Harris’ agent so he can convince New Jersey not to pick John Wall.
I love beating dead horses.
What would this be the tip of if an iceberg were lurking
I mean this does, upon reading, seem like there is a lot of ‘there’ there. So, there could be more to this, right? To pull the blog is the telling piece of this puzzle. If it was just edited for length there would not have been a pulling of the blog.
So, there is more to this story. Something in this story resonates and is potentially damaging. In other words, a real story lurks under this that somebody doesn’t want to come out.
Mangled that
Better said as, upon review of the edits it seems like not much edited, but it was edited. Meaning maybe there is more there than the first glance would find. Perhaps a real story…
There may be a story behind the story...but we all have to be careful not to make something out of nothing.
We can speculate, but what is needed are facts.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Previous spin dropped
The biggest change, according to Martin’s agent, Dan Fegan, was the drafting of rookie guard Tyreke Evans last year. Evans, from the University of Memphis and a leading Rookie of the Year candidate, was selected fourth overall over Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio.
As Fegan sees it, Evans’ style clearly was not conducive to Martin’s, whose departure became inevitable.
“I think (Martin) felt like (the Kings) weren’t being upfront with him regarding their intentions or concerns regarding him and Tyreke,” Fegan said. "The seeds for the Kevin Martin trade were sowed the moment (Petrie) drafted Tyreke Evans.
I thought that Kevin was fully supportive of them drafting Tyreke. At least, that’s the way this thing has always been positioned since now. I guess that cover story can be dropped. More to come for sure.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:01 PM PST reply actions
How do you draw that conclusion?
Fegan wanted the Kings to draft Rubio…for reasons that seem readily apparent, no?
Your quote has nothing to do with Kevin’s opinion.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Maybe
But since they drafted Tyreke, every quote out of Martin’s mouth or from the Kings is how Kevin wanted to draft Tyreke, was excited to pair with him, etc. Now Kevin’s camp — but not Kevin himself —is changing their tune.
Maybe they are just spinning it because Kevin is getting a lot of blame for the pairing not working and wants to shift the blame to Tyreke and the Kings. In some ways Thorpe’s comments echo this. Which seems pointless at this point: better just to take the high road as most of the comments on both sides have and move on.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
So we're working off of the presumption
that Kevin doesn’t ever disagree with his agent?
Your quote is clear “As Fegan sees it…” Fegan thought that Rubio, a guy he just happened to represent, was a better fit with Martin than Evans. That’s hard to believe an agent would be pining for one of his clients to be drafted.
If your point is Fegan looks like a complete ass and should stfu in this exchange, then I wholeheartedly agree, but I’m not seeing any evidence that Martin didn’t want Tyreke drafted. Fegan didn’t, but he hardly had an impartial opinion.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I didn't really have a point
Other to bring out the difference in what Martin said to Koz and what Fegan said to Amick.
If your point is Fegan looks like a complete ass and should stfu in this exchange, then I wholeheartedly agree
Now this I agree with, particularly if it’s at odds with what Kevin thinks. But the whole thing is a bit odd.
Here’s Kmart’s comments to Koz:
I loved playing in the backcourt with him for the little time that I did and he’s the guy that I wanted them to draft here and I was very excited. I wish it coulda lasted longer, but it didn’t.
That seems pretty clear and consistent with what he’s said or been said to have felt in the past. But it differs from the Fegan ramble reported by Amick today:
Meanwhile, Martin began to form questions of his own. He said he wondered to those close to him whether the Kings could become competitive at any point during his prime and doubted the direction of the franchise.
The biggest change, according to Martin’s agent, Dan Fegan, was the drafting of rookie guard Tyreke Evans last year. Evans, from the University of Memphis and a leading Rookie of the Year candidate, was selected fourth overall over Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio.
As Fegan sees it, Evans’ style clearly was not conducive to Martin’s, whose departure became inevitable.
“I think (Martin) felt like (the Kings) weren’t being upfront with him regarding their intentions or concerns regarding him and Tyreke,” Fegan said. “The seeds for the Kevin Martin trade were sowed the moment (Petrie) drafted Tyreke Evans.”
Amick doesn’t help matters by failing to point out the contradiction.
I’m sure we haven’t heard the last of this.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
That's because there is no contradiction
Fegan can believe what he wants and clearly did so. That isn’t saying they are connected or related to Martin’s questions. You are really reaching here. Two different people with different perspectives and information. Sam Amick interviewed them and put it all together for us readers.
Geez, come on. Martin wanted Evans, thought he was great, and genuinely regretted not having the chance to play with him more.
Reread this sentence
"I think (Martin) felt like (the Kings) weren’t being upfront with him regarding their intentions or concerns regarding him and Tyreke," Fegan said.
Now, that doesn’t make it so, but it is Fegan representing what he thinks Martin thinks.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
ok, now I understand where we misunderstood each other I think
in your 3rd quote, from the 1st parapraph to the second, I think we change from talking about what Martin thinks to what Fegan thinks.
“The biggest change, according to Martin’s agent” at this point, I am reading it to say Fegan thinks the biggest change was drafting Tyreke, not Fegan is speaking to what Martin thinks on the subject.
The first paragraph of your 3rd quote makes a lot of sense to me. You could see Martin getting frustrated in that way and commenting to those close to him. Honestly, it doesn’t make me think better of Kevin that his attitude would go that direction. But its an understandable reaction, and it seems to fit what we’ve always known about him.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
It is understandable
If Kevin sees them starting to exclude him and marginalize him then yeah I can understand him being concerned. That he wasn’t part of the long term King’s plan. Hell, that would concern any player with a vested interested, as a member, in a team.
It is very understandable that there could be a contradiction in what Kevin tells one person and what he tells another.
In the case with Koz, he is speaking to the media, so the tone and content of what he has to say could be very different to someone, with whom he would confide. With Fegan, Kevin may well have been sharing some of his inner thoughts and feelings that he wouldn’t share publicly. So, I think it is very possible that both representations could be correct. We share different parts of ourselves to different people and the context (public versus private),in which it is shared, also has to be considered. You are not going to say the same thing to the media that you might share with a best friend or agent.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
There is a reason we all smell fish
Something is fishy here.
As fans we only hear about the background as it “leaked out” (odd phrase) either intentionally or accidently. It is something that exists in the sports world with the players and can be something that fans could rightly be upset over. Do you really think you are going to get all the information from Washington on every bill and the lobby that represents them? hardly, and part of that is for your protection and more than a part is for the protection of the lobbyist.
The sports agent is like the lobbyist. They call in favors and work the phones and the GMs to help maximize their “players best intererests”. Fegan is as high power in the NBA as anyone. It is implied that both he and Rubio were expecting to come to Sacramento by everyone but Sacramento. Petrie seems to be a very open and workable guy – I bet you would get conflicting reports from Arn Tellum and Steely Dan Fegan on that subject. As nice as he is, I don’t see Geoff Petrie wearing knee pads for Fegan or anyone else.
The Kevin Martin saga is particularly interesting now that the Agent Factor is thrown in. It may explain some of the icyness that runs undercurrent to the Kevin Martin/Front office relationship. Think about it – didn’t the “Kevin Martin doesn’t fit with Tyreke Evans” thing seem to have a life of its’ own? ESPN pundits in particular brought it up and wouldn’t let it go. How much influence does an agent have about stuff like that? Why was little ol’ Sacramento all of a sudden a story? Sorry, but this has the fingerprints of a Power Agent all over it.
I read it the other way
I read that whole thing as the Kings franchise setting up a trade for KMart. Why else have their lead peachhole sabotaging him all over the radio waves. It was about the time or shortly after Martin got a new agent and the Rubio stuff that Napear started jumping all over Martin…
Who has more stink - the fish or the fish handler
There is plenty to raise an eyebrow at. I think the national attention that the Evans/Martin backcourt received was out of character and as I wrote above, that has Agent all over it.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 19, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Usually the telling part is who has more to gain
I don’t know what his agent would have to gain from sabotaging his own player. Martin could not helped, but be besmirched by a backcourt failure.
Kevin Martin was not besmirched
It sparked controversy and trade rumors, and voilâ Kevin Martin is a Rockets, Daryl Morey a genius (he went to MIT you know).
by betweentheeyes on Feb 19, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
You are correct
He wasn’t besmirched. They really never gave the backcourt time to work out or fail.
I agree with that Mustang
that is why I thought the whole trade thing spun out of control very quickly. It seems there were a lot of spinners in place.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 19, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
and that is how spin works
confusion = gee, I am not sure what happened anymore
by betweentheeyes on Feb 19, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
Rumors get out of control quickly
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Power Agent Theory 101
1) Kevin Martin’s production increases every year since draft before Tyreke arrives.
2) Agent Fegan gets paid when Kevin gets paid
3) Kevin got paid, Fegan got paid
4) Tyreke gets drafted
5) Kevins production decreases
6) Looking forward to K-Marts next free agency WAY EARLY, Fegan panics and begins “whispering” to other front offices that the pairing will never work.
7) Kevin isn’t worth the 11 mill a year anymore at his CURRENT 09’-10’ production
8) Fegan stirs up more interest from (how many teams did we read about? Phoenix, Dallas, Minnesota, Houston, Indiana, Boston etc)
9) Petrie sticks to his guns about not trading Martin until last minute he gets an offer that just benefits the franchise too much from Houston.
10) Kevin goes to Houston
11) Fegan gets his wish and hopefully Kevin gets back to “big money” numbers before his contract expires in Houston.
by Nutterball on Feb 19, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
duuuuuude
3) Kevin got paid, Fegan got paid
Levien was Martin’s agent when Kevin got paid. Fegan hasn’t gotten paid. Well, for Kevin. Fegan gets paid – I highly doubt the future fortunes of one of his players will make him react crazy.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
EDIT: Power Agent Theory 101
Delete (2) & (3); apparently Fegan was only hired by Martin this year. I didn’t know that. However, Fegans interests still lie with Martin being productive.
ARGGGGGGHHHHH
You can make the same argument: Geoff signed Kevin for lots of money. If Kevin is never productive, Geoff look likes an idiot. Geoff sends Kevin to the place he’ll be most productive (Adleman, his boy) to ensure he looks like a talent genius when Kevin blows up.
Theory makes sense, right? Yes. That means it’s true, right? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Admiration to Sam
for being able to type out those stories while wearing handcuffs.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Can I ask a question?
would any of you argue that Sam has been somewhat of a Kevin guy? I think it’s fair to say that Sam has defended Kevin and been in his corner. Anyways, all of the talk about the agent v. Petrie is really not important. Petrie is a bright guy, and he is not petty enough to make a deal that may be a bad basketball move just becuase he doesn’t like the players agent. Would he make a trade he wasn’t sure about to make a point. The Bee editors may just be getting a little tired of articles that are not very objective when it comes to Martin. Maybe they felt Sam was throwing out a lot of speculation and rumor that had nothing to do with this trade.
by Mark Olberding on Feb 19, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
I have no large objection for this objection.
Not saying I agree, but it’s in the realm of possibility. But Fegan’s quotes were rather choice.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
I don't know that I would describe Amick as being a "Kevin guy"
as much as Kevin was an Amick guy. That is, whenever Martin had something to say, he usually turned to Amick, most likely because he thought that he would get a fair shake and that Amick would get it right.
If it is your stance that the Bee did this bit of editing to protect the sanctity of their product, power to you. After having to fire one sportswriter for “covering” Giants games from his home when he was supposed to be at the game, and after having to fire a metro writer for completely fabricating stories, I could understand how they might become a little overly cautious.
However, I disagree with your take as it pertains to Amick’s objectivity. He directly quoted Fagan, and that quote had substance and deserved to be reported, in my opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 19, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
To add to your point section, if I may
Could it also be that Amick ‘seems’ like a ‘Kevin guy’ because he’s the only one that gave the kid the benefit of the doubt?
I mean, Aileen had already said Reke and Kevin weren’t going to work, the Rise Guys were calling for a Martin trade as soon as he came back, and don’t even get me started about Peaches. Maybe Amick’s tone sounded different from everyone else because he was the only one not rendering judgement and painting a negative picture of the situation.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Feb 19, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd agree with this
He’s mainly the one guy in the Sac media who gave Kev the benefit of the doubt, it seemed to me at least.
by Dub_TC on Feb 20, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I will second that w_t_c
Sam appears to be a stand up guy. He does his darndest to report the story, not write the story. Big difference. He is not looking to find the dirt under the fingernails of every hand shake. He is on the endangered species list for having those qualities, but that is a rant for another time and place.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 20, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
I could just as easily ask a very different question
Would any of you argue that there are business relationships that amount to significant sums between the SacBee and the Kings? I think it is fair to say that this business is worth a lot of money. Given all the advertising and PR. Business and money are what is really involved here given that there is so much money at stake. Would the Bee lose money if the Kings got ticked at a story by one of the Bee reporters and wouldn’t the fear of that cause careful editing to be done, even censorship? The Bee editors may just be a little scared of running any articles, no matter how objective on Martin. Maybe they felt Sam could lose them money and their job by reporting good information that might have had a lot to do with this trade.
I think you are walking down the wrong road on this one.
The Sacramento Bee is a recognized newspaper. As such, it wants to get the news and can’t let money or influence jeopardize a story. They are not going to tell their reporters, “We get a lot of money from such and such, so you better write a favorable story.” I strongly doubt that this was the case. At any rate, Peaches runs his mouth and that doesn’t seem to p*ss anyone off at the Kings.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I would completely disagee with you on this
I think that money and advertising dollars or the loss of them are huge. This paper is barely staying afloat by all accounts and IMO they would censor anything that might lose them revenue.
Then we agree to disagree on this one.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Then we are all clear on that.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
so lets just hope fegan cant get his hands on whoever we draft. or that we dont skip the best player available because of him...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
won't happen
unless your name is Khan.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 19, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
This is such a crappy story to relay if you're Sam Amick
Big ups to him to relaying it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Gives Peaches more ammo to trash Kevin
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Grant just ripped the editors at the Bee for pulling Amick's article and repremanding him.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
I had to change stations at least twice
Is there any other option for sport radio in Sac?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
that's a negative, Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
That sucks
I just can’t stand some of the programming.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
It's a tough listen
I can’t speak to Carmichael Dave’s show, since it’s on after I get home. But the rest of the day is pretty much a waste.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I'm cool with Charmichael Dave
and Jason Ross whenever he’s on but the rest is painful. My problem is that I WANT to like listening to KHTK but I just can’t.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I just listen to KNBR for the most part
And get my Kings info and talk here…
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I wish this could just die
and everyone could move on. Of course, I understand that isn’t happening
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
No, it has to be "processed" first by StR
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Just need a couple games
to get everyone’s minds off of it
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
On another front
I’ve now heard back from both John Dickinson and Jodi Bacon, the executive producer of 1140, and I hope to have the comments made by Kevin after the Feb. 5 Phoenix game in a few days. To me, that’s when this thing really started to unravel and gather steam. The game was on a Friday and Napear’s rant show aired the following Monday.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 19, 2010 7:31 PM PST reply actions
Just let it go and focus on the future
Otherwise you are going to come off as just furthering what seems to be some strange need to lambaste Kevin Martin. The guy is gone. Enough of this stuff.
Sorry
But I was called out on it and so I will produce it.
Interesting that Houston is now complaining they have too many wings and that Battier may be playing some at the 4.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 20, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
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