Pistons 101, Kings 89
by Tom Ziller on Feb 24, 2010 6:42 AM PST
in Recaps
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PrintIn honor of Spencer Hawes, I'm benching myself for this recap.
***
Just kidding. (Kinda.)
I think Paul Westphal has been the team's best coach since Rick Adelman. I think his staff is great. (I liked Eric Musselman's staff quite a bit, too.) I understand Westphal is going through some tough family issues, and God bless he and his wife. And as such, I understand his mind might be elsewhere, his nerves may be frayed and his fighting spirit may be weakened.
But when the team is this bad defensively, sitting the best defensive big man when the team desperately needs a win, sitting him over some periphery, fairly noncontroversial B.S. ... oy. (And then cleverly twisted the knife in a post-game press conference? Really?)
And don't forget that this team -- Westphal's Kings team -- is as bad defensively as the worst teams of the Musselman/Theus/Natt era. I find it difficult to blame personnel (though the Carl Landry acquisition certainly fits the front office's pattern of targeting offensive players) at this point. Heck, Westphal plays a ton of defensive role players and the team still can't stop anyone.
Is it the defensive system's fault? That answer depends on the answer to this question: is there even a defensive system? (I'm being serious.)
Consider this play, late 2nd quarter. (Click for a larger image.)
I even grade on a curve!
***
If I hear our copper-topped friend say, "Fans don't understand that [obvious fact] ..." or "Fans don't realize that [even more obvious fact] ..." one more time, I'm going to kick a peach cobbler.
***
Losing to the Pistons by 12 isn't a big deal. The Kings might be fairly even in talent with the Pistons, but Sacramento is younger, less consistent and has one big ol' new moving part that isn't close to being neatly integrated. The problem is that the Kings fell behind by 30 to the Pistons at ARCO. Inexcusable. A failure of strategy or execution (or both), plus a failure of spirit in the second and third quarters.
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Just one thing to say about PW
Be the adult, not the child.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Why must there be?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Because he's a petty ass, who micro manages his team, and doesn't like being called out
Or one of a hundred other explainations, that people don’t want to consider.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
uhhhh
if somebody goes public about issues with playing time, etc.why the hell would you go and whine to the press? if its an issue with the coach, you talk to the coach, plain and simple. splurging to interviewers about these matters only makes chemistry worse, and sheds a negative light on PW. I firmly stand behind his decision to bench hawes. i vividly remember paul westphal saying at the beginning of the season that if you did something wrong or were inconsistent, he would pull you out. a young team like this is like a baby, constant whining if things arent going there way, and you have to learn to be stern and discipline it.
by Harrisonyaka on Feb 25, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Because Hawes can't rebound?
I confused.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Why mustn't there be?
It makes more sense that there is more to the story. At the very least, Westphal and Spencer talked about the Bee story. Were you there during their conversation?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 24, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
There has to be more to the conversation and events that followed. For some people to be so adimant that PW made the wrong choice is a view founded in ignorance. Only PW and Spence know the whole story. To be concerned with correct judgement regarding this situation is grasping for the wind. Give PW the benefit of the doubt. He’s the coach.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
The opinion that there must be more, is pure conjecture so
until more facts come to light, I’ll base my decision on what I’ve been told are FACTS.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
And you conjecture
that this is the entirety of the story. Welcome to Club Conjecture! Membership is open, all are welcome!
by sactown on Feb 24, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There is always more to a story.
Such things like inflection in the voice, motive, history, context, expectations, understanding ect… are all things that add to a story. Many of these things are not known wholely know by us and unless you (generally speaking) are PW or Spence you (generally speaking) do not know the whole story.
I've got gas - yea, i'm enviromentally friendly
Final Straw with Hawes
Let’s look at the history. Hawes refused to take the conditioning last year. This year he skips summer league. This year he has complained about his role.
If you have a problem with a coach once, hey it happens. But Spencer has had problems with 2 coaches and his GM in 2 plus years so maybe he needs to look in the mirror.
by Mark Olberding on Feb 24, 2010 8:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I get that
But my point still stands.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Agree with you on this.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Spencer has shown an numerous occassions that
he lacks maturity both on and off the court. Had PW benched someone like Garcia I might think he had overreacted. As fans we need to let the guy do his job evaluate his performance at the end of the year and determine whether we are going to support him.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
by nothingbutnet on Feb 24, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Many here questioned Westphal's rotations before the story broke
The fact that some of the players( not just Spencer) have the same feelings, is what’s being overlooked. Amick choose to put the comments in the paper because he thought them news worthy. Now, PW reacts to the dirty laudry being aired in the paper and the whole story takes a new direction. Now, instead of being about Westphal and his rotations, it’s become about Spencer expressing his dissatisfaction, even tho he’s not the first to bring it up or the only one.
Nice spin. direct the attention toward the 21 yr old who has a history of speaking his mind. And, avoid the conversation about how little the team has progressed this season, and whether the coachs decision to tinker with the rotations has anything to do with the teams failure.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This sums up my feelings
Nice spin. direct the attention toward the 21 yr old who has a history of speaking his mind. And, avoid the conversation about how little the team has progressed this season, and whether the coachs decision to tinker with the rotations has anything to do with the teams failure.
Spencer is a big old fat (well skinny) red herring.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
if you think the kings havent progressed this season i sincerely feel sorry for you.
by Harrisonyaka on Feb 25, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Do you really watch the games?
Name the top 3 successful offensive sets that the Kings run?
What is the best play that the Kings run to get a basket for JT or Spencer in the blocks?
How many times have the Kings run a successful pick and roll this season?
Name the top 3 pick and roll defenders and explain why?
Prove your self, and then I’ll except your pitty.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yes, since we haven't improved at your list of items it means we haven't progressed at all
Donte Greene has taken massive steps forward. He was quite possibly the worst player in the NBA last season (he had the worst PER, anyway). Beno Udrih has turned his game around; he was horrendous last year. We’ve added two great young players to the mix, and they’ve developed very nicely. Yes, they’re not anywhere near developed yet, but to say they haven’t progressed at all doesn’t make much sense.
By the way:
1. Hawes passes backdoor to man going to the basket on an off-ball screen, Evans penetrates and kicks for three, and Evans breaks down the defense all by himself and takes it to the rack. Perfect? No. But they’re fairly successful.
2. They don’t, because Spencer and JT can’t score in the blocks.
3. Not very many, but that’s because our guards have done a poor job finding the man rolling. Evans found Landry several times in the fourth quarter of the last game; that’s already a step forward.
4. Udoka, Dorsey, and Landry. Yep, two of the new guys. Dorsey and Landry ALWAYS pop out when their man sets a pick, and Udoka knows whether to go under or over the pick better than anyone else we have.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 26, 2010 1:28 AM PST up reply actions
The questions were a test of Harrison's BB IQ,
Since he felt sorry for me, I wanted to understand who I was arguing with.
So, the answers to the questions had nothing to do with judging whether or not we were improving.
As for your answers:
1. Hawes passes is generic but ok. Both Evans plays are the same with different options so only half a point.: My point is Evans has been doing this since the preseason, so there is no improvement after 55 games, and Hawes did this last year. So also no improvement.
2. Spencer and JT get more than 50% of the baskets down lo, so they should be able to score if we actually ran plays for them which we don’t. Don’t you think JT could score if Tyreke ran his man thru the paint and set a pick on JT’s man. Forcing the guard covering Evans to switch. I do. 57 games into the season and no offensive sets for our center, I call that no improvement.
3. Is this a skill that is so difficult to develop, that our guards can’t perform it at least once a game. Everytime PW has an interview after a practice to says how hard everyone was working. How long do you think you would have to practice to make a bounce pass to the screener, when he rolls to the basket?
The pick & roll is the most basic set play in basketball, and we can’t even make the pass, I call that no improvement.
4. and 3. the comment I was defending was
how little the team has progressed this season
not that there wasn’t any progress, but that things had changed little since preseason. Now, since 3 & 4 are based on the addition of 2 people who weren’t here a week ago, I don’t thing you can judge the teams progress from the start of the year by including them.
I applaud your defending the team, but a stand by my opinion “That the team has progressed very little this season”.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Like many,
I am confused by the rotations and play calls and feel PW deserves some scrutiny however, how he decides to discipline the players I leave fully in his hands. If he has to second guess how fans and management are going to react to his authority, he may as well pack his bags now.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
by nothingbutnet on Feb 25, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
I saw the PW after game press conference
It was an ugly display of a guy who’s at his wits end, IMO. I noticed May got some floor time after his tirade on inconsistent lineups. Now there must be some rift with Hawes. But maybe Hawes deserves it. This kind of infighting is to be expected when a team is in such disarray.
Its gone from Kingsflix now
pulled
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Rec'd for the play breakdown
Loved the “Impromptu Freeze Tag Game” line.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Incase you missed it
Zach Harper has created a video of virtual Spencer and virtual Westphal.
Its hilarious
Link Here
by chenp22 on Feb 24, 2010 7:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
"Go see if Tywreck needs lunch"
I am going to lose my life using that program.
by mayfieldcol on Feb 24, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How many of those videos can SactownRoyalty members make and post as fanshots?
Let’s do it!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Thanks...
for dropping the link here, Chen. That’s what boredom will do for you. I am truly excited to see where the StR community takes this platform of making movies.
by Zach H from Talk H on Feb 24, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
the denver broncos?
How this team started so strong and has pretty much sucked lately has been a mystery?
As for PW, in his postgame interviews throughout the year I have always thought he has had his players backs and has been more than complimentery of his players when they play well. I gotta believe there is more to the Spence story than just his newspaper comments because of PW’s history of covering his players. Just speculation on my part.
As for the game?
JT should only have 2 shots. His 15 footer and a dunk. From 2-4 feet in, his offense is atrocious. Some of his shots around the rim I find myself thinking “what the hell was that?” Where the ball hits the backboard is not anywhere close to where it needs to hit to go through the net.
Donte. Love the dude, but the razzle dazzle (D. Wilkins) dribbling in the key has got to stop. Instant turnover.
Good to see Evans hit Landry on the pick in roll in stride.
Spence has the same problem I have had and I am more than twice his age. He has a hard time with authority. I have often said that 90% of my problems would not have happened if I would have kept my big mouth shut. If Spence wants consistent time, be consistent yourself. He has been up and down all year. When he figures out how to keep his mouth shut, I hope he will call me and give me the secret.
Good luck to PW and his wife, hope she will be ok.
by noreboundsnorings on Feb 24, 2010 7:28 AM PST reply actions
On the offense side...
Several of our offensive possessions were terrible. Dribbling the ball for 18 seconds and then trying to get into the offense in the last seconds doesn’t get it. (I’m not talking about 1-4 flat either). Not sure if that’s fReke or somebody else not doing their job, but it sure is maddening.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
As bad as our defense has been
our offense has been even worse.
houston barely cracked 90 last night with martin
by Harrisonyaka on Feb 25, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Westphal's postgame comments
I guess he knows his role? Jesus, I thought he was going to ask Spence if he liked pancakes then come back with “then pancake your ass back to the bench!”
If you smelllllll what the Coach is cookin’!
I hope Grant calls Westie mentally weak after this outburst.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Feb 24, 2010 7:46 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm ok with the benching
This isn’t the first time for Spence to have communication issues with this coaching staff either. He had a similar issue during summer league too. He committed to communicating better with staff at the time.
From the postgame comments, I gather that was the first time he had heard that comment from Spence.
I'm biased
I’m totally in the tank for Spence because of the Peaches shirt thing. Plus, I’ve had questions about Westphal’s rotation since day one, but we were winning so I kept my mouth shut.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Feb 24, 2010 8:08 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm in the tank for Spencer
because he’s more skilled than JT.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Really now:
RK PLAYER TEAM GP MPG OFF ORPG DEF DRPG REB RPG RP48
22 Jason Thompson, C SAC 55 32.0 174 3.2 309 5.6 483 8.8 13.2
56 Spencer Hawes, C SAC 55 26.2 108 2.0 212 3.9 320 5.8 10.7
Nope Spencer is not better at any kind of rebounding whatsoever
Judgment day is coming!
Spencer has a better defensive rebound rate
and Jason is bettewr this season.
Spence’s d-reb rate. JT’s. JT has the higher d-reb rate mayfield.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
SPence has 2 years in the 20s and then falls off this year
Jason is better this year. Somewhat of a toss up I suppose.
You said this season.
Nevermind Not important.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
They're almost identical for their careers
and Jason is better this year.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
So Spencer should play
because he once wore a Peaches t-shirt?
Jump and maybe you can catch the joke that went over your head
Obviously I like Spence as a player and, like Aykis, think he’s better than JT. But I’ve questioned Westphal’s lineups since he started Sean May. Westphal’s constantly been jerking Spence around the entire season. I’m not sure what their deal is, but you can’t expect consistency without giving consistent minutes. The Peaches shirt just helps me pick sides.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Feb 24, 2010 8:18 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Don't get me wrong
I like Spence. PW must have thought that a message needed to be sent this time, and I’m ok with that.
Spence has been quoted saying a few things that have rubbed me the wrong way though. Like he thinks he already his what he could be…he doesn’t recognize the unfulfilled potential. I have to say that reporters know how open he is, and he does get asked a lot of leading questions too.
It seems to be more of a pattern with Spencer.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Spencer's new role
STFU and sit on the bench. That spot where K9 sat is gettin’ cold and we can’t have that.
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
I'm not surprised
Detroit is, as we speak, more talented than the Kings. I think they really hinge on Tayshaun, who has played better as of late. They beat San Antonio the game before us. I’m not surprised.
Aside from Tyreke, I’m taking Rip over whoever our 2guard is, Tayshaun over any of our 3s (this year, let’s see about Casspi and Greene next year), Gordon over Beno, the shell of Ben Wallace over Hawes, Stuckey is a somewhat-poor man’s Tyreke. Landry vs. Villanueva, looking at the #s, they aren’t far off.
I do not think they are more talented.
I think you are the only one who likes Ben Wallace over Spencer I was complaining last night that I did not want any of their guys on my team.
They were 6-19 on the road coming in
And led us by 30 on our home floor at one point.
Their talent isn’t that much better, and that’s still a team we should beat in Arco.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Some quick numbers
Spencer’s “breakout game” against Redacted where he went 30/11/5, his minutes the three games after: 22,18,15
7 rebounds in 38 minutes @Was (nothing to write home about, but not a disaster), then 12, 12, 18 for minutes in the three games after.
18/13 against GS at home, next two games 22, 18 minutes
14/11@Tor, next game 5 minutes
11 boards @Det, great game defending the paint against Bos with 8 boards, his time since then 27, 22, 11, suit.
If rebounding is the stat everyone uses to kill Hawes, PW does not have a history of rewarding good rebounding performances with more playing time for Spencer.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
by Grasul on Feb 24, 2010 7:54 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
Thanks for researching that
I think it is very indicative of the frustration the players have felt. I have been complaining about this for a few months, and was chided a bit for it, and when you look at our team the last few weeks, it seems like no one is in charge. We did not get full market value for Kevin Martin, a genuinely nice guy, team player, and hard worker that was thrilled to leave, we obviously have several players confused by the coaching philosophy, our rookies are definitely slipping, and we still cant play defense or run an offensive set. Something is going on, and I am disappointed in PW, I was expecting a lot more, as I had been a big fan of his as a player.
PW certainly seems to have lost control of things right now
I am rooting for him to succeed, I liked the attitude and accountability he brought to the team early on, he really seemed like the perfect guy for the situation.
Because of that, I hope he can grab the reigns again and get everyone back on the same page. I’m not ready to give up on him, but this seems to be a pretty big time for him, and I hope he recognizes it and addresses it with the team.
The team looks completely lost right now. There’s nothing you can point to that is working well other than Tyreke beats his guy off the dribble to the rim. We need PW to bring some sanity back, and I hope he gets it right.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I am probably harder on PW than most here
And have been for awhile, whether I am right or wrong, who knows, as none of us are in the Kings locker room. I have to wonder, too, how well our front office is doing, and how much of that is weighing on PW’s shoulders. Kevin was my favorite player, and I hate that he was traded, but accept that as part of the game, but I was shocked that all we got was a sixth man and cap space. Holllinger at ESPN had a good piece:
Consider the Kings, for instance. They had a coveted star in Kevin Martin, $13 million in expiring contracts belonging to Kenny Thomas, Sergio Rodriguez, Hilton Armstrong, Ime Udoka and Sean May, and $1.6 million in cap room to do an unbalanced trade. They should have been controlling the entire game on deadline day.
Unfortunately, they didn’t choose to play. Sacramento didn’t let teams know Martin was available, and in fact insisted he wasn’t available; unlike Phoenix with Stoudemire, the Kings have no idea if Houston’s offer was the best one they could have had. In fact, there’s considerable evidence they could have done much better — possibly by bypassing the Rockets entirely.
Consider, for starters, what would have been the perfect home for Martin: Boston. The Kings could have sent Martin and little-used Andres Nocioni to the Celtics for Ray Allen and a first-round pick, and cleared $18 million in cap room (the Celtics, given their current time horizon, would have blurted out yes to this offer in a nanosecond).
They then could have used Allen and Kenny Thomas in a deal with the Knicks and walked away with the exact same trove of assets that the Rockets did. If so, Sacramento wouldn’t have Landry, but look at what they’d have instead: Jordan Hill, New York’s 2012 first-rounder, Boston’s 2011 first-rounder, the right to swap picks with New York in 2011 (admittedly, an item of more value to Houston given the two clubs’ likely records next season), and the same cap room they cleared with the Martin trade.
The only reason they don’t have those assets, it would appear, is that they didn’t ask. While the Kings fiddled, Houston forced the action and squeezed all it could from New York. When the Knicks wouldn’t flinch, the Rockets scrambled to get alternate deals in place: first an all-smoke, no-fire rumor with Chicago, and then a late deal with Sacramento that both pried Martin free and thrust the Knicks into action.
That story echoes a fairly constant background noise that’s been heard about Sacramento in recent years. The Kings have a small front office and nearly everybody in it has been there forever; one gets the impression not that they’ve lost their basketball acumen, but that they aren’t putting in the legwork anymore.
A series of lazy deals — giving Beno Udrih the full midlevel rather than checking out the point guard market, or signing Francisco Garcia to a ridiculous $35 million extension — were the first indicators, and this is the latest. Sacramento made an OK deal with Martin — I gave the Kings a B-plus on the merits of the trade itself — but the Kings had the assets to put together a great deal and failed.
The reason they didn’t isn’t because the Rockets had some master computer program that outsmarted everybody. No, this had a more simple cause: The Kings got outhustled.
The irony here is that a dozen years ago the Kings were the ones outworking other teams to unearth good deals. They were the ones discovering a trove of hidden talent in Europe (Peja Stojakovic, Hedo Turkoglu) and beating the bushes to pluck players like Jon Barry, Scot Pollard and Doug Christie off the scrap heap. And the last time they traded a star shooting guard, they didn’t come away with Carl Landry: They got Chris Webber.
by MichaelMack on Feb 24, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Probably the best idea
would have been to link the piece, create a FanShot for it or just quote from it. I believe there already has been a FanShot for this.
While I don’t think the front office is beyond reproach, I think Holliger’s piece is moronic. The Kings didn’t get outhustled, in my opinion, they decided they’d rather have Landry than a bunch of low end #1 picks, which is a perfectly defensible thought I believe.
We already have more “decent” NBA players than we know what to do with and struggle to find time to develop all of them. Now we’re supposed to add a two extra low #1’s and Hill over the next few years in addition to our own #1s? With the money we saved, its very likely we’ll be able to buy low #1’s if we really want to.
So, I agree with your points, but Hollinger’s piece doesn’t do much for me.
:-)
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Then there was the fact that we would have had to take Jared Jeffries $7.8M contract
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
While shedding KM's and Noce's though
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
But, we also had to give up K9's EC, so Jared and Noc were a wash.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
my point
for one less year
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Rec'd
Well-researched. Thanks for your time.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
rewarding performances
Let me clarify. I do not mean that he may give increased playing time for good performances. I mean he does not leave his players hanging out to dry in the press or tv interviews. His is always complimentery and is quick to cover up for his players.
If I were a coach and I know that I do this and then I have a player who questions my decisions in the press, I am sorry, he deserves a fine or punishment. And as I stated above, I believe there is more to the story.
by noreboundsnorings on Feb 24, 2010 7:58 AM PST reply actions
I can understand why PW would punish Spencer
but two things:
1) Why not punish everyone involved, its difficult to make the case what Spencer said was a lot worse than what May or Evans said
2) Why punish Spencer in a manner that is the exact same as what he’s punishing Spencer for, except if anything, a more egregious example of it.
Like you said, you would think there must be more to it than this, but PW has seemed to have an axe to grind with Hawes specifically for a while now, so you have to wonder a little what’s going on.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Easy answer
This must not be an isolated incident with Spencer.
by sactown on Feb 24, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Additional easy answer
PW has always needed a target for his discontent and Hawes has been the guy.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
From the first game
when he brilliantly started Sean May. That really showed Spencer who was in charge.
If Spencer deserved that
I don’t have a problem with it, and Spencer has definitely had games he deserved consequences for, but this last situation has been ridiculous.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
What is so ridiculous about sitting a guy out for a game?
This type of discipline of a player is nothing new. I’m with sactown, this is probably not an isolated incident. Coach has probably already tried talking things out with Spencer. If that doesn’t work, then he moves on to the next level of discipline. PW needs to be supported in his efforts to discipline his players.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 24, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What's ridiculous
is PW saying (Paraphrasing) “I guess he’ll know what his role is tonight” to the press.
I’d like my head coach to bring some maturity to a little press brushfire, not a can of gasoline.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Sounds like PW is pretty frustrated with Spencer.
Frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with him making that statement. He was being very clear that Spencer was being benched for a disciplinary reason. That he showed some emotion only goes to show he is human.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 24, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Contrast it with what Spencer
and the other two guys on the team said. None of them even said anything directly about PW, they all said some variation of “its a tough situation when your playing time is inconsistent”. Frankly, I thought they all were extremely diplomatic about it.
Then PW goes off and is “only human”? Some of these people are 20-25 year olds, who’s job is to play basketball, and one of these people is the guy in his 50’s(?) who’s job it is to direct them and deal with the media and other associated distractions that surround these guys.
If PW’s feelings were hurt about what 20% of the team said, I expect more from him in terms of dealing with the situation than the way he reacted. Being a smug ass about it didn’t make anything better, when he had every opportunity to do so.
And he may actually want to pay a little attention to what the players said, because Tyreke said it, and I promise you Tyreke has more juice in the organization than Paul Westphal does. Its not good, when 20% of the team, including the star player call you out, even if they were ridiculously polite about it.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
This is PW's locker room...has he lost control of it?
The fact that there were three players quoted in that article, and he suspended one of them…well, it doesn’t look good.
Obviously, there is more to the story. If PW doesn’t want to disclose the remainder of the story, he should be a bit more professional and just be vague about the details. Instead, he clearly took a swipe at Spencer.
What he ended up doing is using the media to get at a player who he thinks used the media to get at him.
Again, PW is supposed to be the adult in this situation. And he should act like it. His treatment of Spencer is the equivalent of a parent spanking their kid because they caught them hitting another child.
Bigger picture – there’s no way I can be convinced that this isn’t a dysfunctional clubhouse at the moment. The stuff in the papers, the lackluster performance on the court, the treatment of Kevin Martin prior to his departure – it all points to a team that is out of control.
A young team may be undisciplined, they may be inconsistent…but they should at least have a “don’t fuck with us” mentality as a group. This team is about as far as they can get from that.
PW and Petrie need to get control of the situation.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
“Like you said, you would think there must be more to it than this, but PW has seemed to have an axe to grind with Hawes specifically for a while now, so you have to wonder a little what’s going on”
Grasul, I think you hit the nail on the head with the above statement. There have been times in a game when Hawes was really doing a good job and all of a sudden he is yanked and never enters the game again. From what I read in this mornings Sacbee, there are more players confused by PW’s lineups and substitutions and all spoke out. If one is punished, punish all of them but I don’t see why anyone should feel PW’s wrath for speaking the truth. I don’t think this team is as bad individually as the results indicate but as a team they are really bad, bad, bad. They are not only confused in the locker room. They appear lost and confused on the court as well. I think PW should sit out a few games himself. His after game comments about Spence was arrogant and self gratifying. Needless to say I am disappointed in PW as a coach and person. He needs to grow up. He also needs help in guiding this team out of the doldrums.
by Bill2 on Feb 24, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I haven't been a PW fan since the first few games
When I saw Sean May and Desmond Mason start, but I had been a fan of his as a player and coach in Phoenix and Seattle (I thought he got a raw deal when he was fired), but while I had not been a big fan, I dont think any of this is worth firing him for, but I do believe he is on a precipice with this young team. Even his star rookie who has been given complete support from the entire orginization is saying to a reporter that the coaching system has been difficult on the players, to just watching tape of a game to see that fifty games into the season we have no offensive movement and fluidity, to our non-existent defensive cohesiveness, to the stat produced about rotations and playing time, to the (I think) silly experiments of Donte alternately starting at SG and PF (which not even Lamar Odom could do), PW needs to look at his own performance as much as 21year olds big mouth.
by MichaelMack on Feb 24, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Some observations about the Detroit game.
In my scouting report Keys, I thought Tyreke might be tired and thought we could give him some relief by playing Beno at PG more, but Evans looked fine after one days rest, so I guess I’m fallible too. But, I stand by my opinion that Cisco and Ime we’re a better choice at the 2 than Greene, especially guarding Rip Hamilton, who ran Greene ragged off of screen after screen.
Casspi got yanked for McGuire (not Noc, not Greene) after Prince got his 4th basket at the 6-minute mark of the 1st.
“They were going at Omri (Casspi) with Prince, and he had his way with him,” Westphal said. “There’s no other way to put it.”
I think PW doesn’t see the game well from the bench, because in front of my TV, I could see that the first 2 baskets we’re due to JT blowing the pick & roll defense. On the first play after Wallace set a pick on Omri’s right side (so Prince can go left, he is left handed), for some reason unknown to me JT went to the same side of the pick as Omri, allowing Prince to go to his left for a lay-up. Prince and Wallace ran the same play the next possession, but this time JT didn’t even come out, and Prince rolled to the FT line for a short jumper.
Prince’s next basket was a tough 18ft fade away jumper, which Omri defended well. And, the last basket, was when Prince posted up Omri off the right blocks, and the Kings offered no help for the rookie, Shocking a seven year veteran, who won a gold metal with the Olympic team, and was on the NBA All-Defensive second team 4 years in a row, scored over our rookie. But, to think that McGuire, who couldn’t even get minutes in Washington, and had only practiced with the team once, was a better option is even more shocking.
This is the same type of rotation decisions, which others and myself on this site have been complaining about for months. And, now some of the players are too. Comments that got Spencer reprimanded but not others.
“I guess he knows his role,” Westphal said when asked about the decision regarding Hawes. “We have an open door. Everybody knows his role. All you have to do is ask. Anytime, day or night.”
In Tuesday night’s blowout (forget the final score, it was a 30pt blowout), all 11-suited player played. Donte only got 13:22 playing out of position against someone he couldn’t possibly keep up with. McGuire got 3:47 trying to defend the player that the #6 rookie in this years draft couldn’t guard, even though McGuire didn’t know the defense yet. May got 11:37 and Dorsey got 12:00 and combined for 5 pts and 4 rebs filling in at center for the only real center on the team who was sitting in the stands with a gag in his mouth. 13:24 went to Noc who produced 5pt 2rbs, and 1 assist in the line up that dug us out of a 11 pt defect in the 1st quarter that the starters put us in, but saw no minutes at all in the 2nd half. And, 16:24 went to Cisco who performed well, but probably doesn’t need to go for more than 20 per game this soon after his return from injury.
Westphal didn’t even play JT in the 4th, never should have played Donte on Rip Hamilton, pulled Omri after Prince got 8 pts but 4pt we’re because JT screwed up the pick & roll defense. Gee, I hope Spencer learned his lesson, because Paul Westphal certainly didn’t.
After the game, Donte had this to say.
“No matter how many minutes you play, no matter if you start or don’t start, if coach plays you two minutes or 40 minutes, you have control of how you play,” Greene said. "Tonight was a prime example. I came out, wasn’t playing tough enough and hard enough, and coach took me out. End of story."
So, finally PW has taught someone on the team something. Even though he wasn’t to blame for not been able to cover a guy who he had no chance of being able to cover in the first place. Donte blamed himself instead of the coach. Nice job PW, good coaching.
Evans who had a 28-point, career-high 13-assist outing when congratulated by a Kings employee afterward game, said, “Shoot, I should’ve had 20 (assists).” That sounds like a shot against his teammates; maybe Westphal should nip that in the bud and sit Evans the next game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Feb 24, 2010 8:11 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
Great
agreed all around. Blame spreads like warm butter amongst this group.
Youth an immaturity on a losing team.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Maybe Donte would have matched up better
against Prince? Who do we go with against Hamilton? Udoka?
3 choices in order: Cisco, Ime, Tyreke
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Impressive re-cap HT
I think we could look at a number of games and see odd decisions that HT covered very well. I do not understand what PW is doing with Donte. How in the world can within one week he be asked to start at PF and then SG? He is very young, very inexperienced, and that is asking a lot. I can’t think of one player in the NBA that has been asked to do that this year. Perhaps in his development we could give him some consistency so he can find himself as a player and develop a skill set that will help our team win.
Great Stuff
I agree. It’s funny that PW thinks that Greene is a shooting guard. Really? 6’10" shooting guard? How many of those are in the league. Remember when Durant was playing SG? Yah, he was still good but it wasn’t until he was moved to SF that he really took off.
Greene is not and will NEVER be a shooting guard. Omri really isn’t either.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Hawes is soft....he needs to improve his game and shut up.
Hawes is not a Coach , he needs to focus on his game and shut his mouth, not everyone is impressed by his game. Petrie , Maloofs Hired Paul Westphal to be coach not Hawes , Hawes needs to Start playing like a 7 foot Center and stop worrying about the Coach. I would get Rid of Hawes before i would get Rid of Westphal. Hawes is becoming a Cancer on this team and he isn’t good enough to queston one of the most respected coaches in the NBA. Hawes needs to shut up and do his Job.
I disagree with everything you said.
I think PW needs to shut up and do his job. He was hired to coach not be a petty person and jerk around young basketball players. He needs to develop their skills and get them to play together as a team not change starters every single game. e needs to prepare them to defend better and teach young guys how to run the pick-and-roll. I would get rid of Westphal before I got rid of a young, skilled seven-footer who is paid reasonably. I have no desire for Westphal to be fired, but I think there are other ways to lead a team.
by mayfieldcol on Feb 24, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I am in total agreement with you Mayfield
I have not been impressed with PW all year, but I haven’t hated him either (like I hated Musselman and Natt). I think he could be doing a better job with the x-and-o part of defensive rotations, offensive sets, and player rotation, but I dont want to see him fired. Yet.
It's pretty obvious Westphal and Spencer have issues
It’s too bad, because I think Hawes and Landry could be a nice pairing. Better at least than JT and Landry. I hope Spencer can learn to shut up and let his playing do the talking for him.
Spencer may have “learned” his role, but I’m wondering if Westphal has figured out his. But I don’t want to really cap on him with the issues he’s going through.
I guess that Sean May is now the first big off the bench. That may not be the worst of things. They had more rhythm with him in the first quarter.
One other thing I noticed: the Kings were in the bonus with more than nine minutes left in the second quarter and then started jacking up outside shot after outside shot. They didn’t get to the line again until late in the half. That’s not smart basketball and not the sign of a well-coached team.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 8:17 AM PST reply actions
Wouldn't be surprised to see Dorsey be the first big off the bench from now on.
He impressed me last night in his limited minutes.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
He was +13 in 12 minutes
highest on the team
garbage minutes with the game out of reach
I could have been +13 when the Pistons are trying to milk the clock.
Did you watch?
He brought things to the table our other big guys don’t. He’s thick AND athletic. He can actually dunk a basketball. He talks on defense, knows how to pop out on a screen, and can play actual post defense. He can block shots. He’s Ben Wallace lite. The Kraken needs more playing time.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
he's also
listed at 6’9", and must have been measured in high heels.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
That's fine
He plays much bigger. His wingspan is 7’ 1.75" Jordan Hill is three inches taller and has the same wingspan. He’s actually about 6’ 7", but who cares if he plays much bigger than that?
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
He seems a little oversold for me
for a guy that’s played 74 NBA minutes, total, in his whole life. Not an indictment of the guy, but I’d like to see a little more before we get too excited, ya’know?
He’s also 26, so he should be physically ahead of our other bigs. For reference, when Ben Wallace was 26, he led the NBA in rebounding and shot blocking, so when you say lite, you mean Ben Wallace-transparent, right? Dorsey has blocked one shot in his career.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I find it humorous....
that both sides of the Dorsey argument use small sample sizes to cement their point.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I absolutely, positively do hope he's Ben Wallace
and I’m all for finding out; I’m just not willing to buy it right now.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I don't believe he's ALREADY Ben Wallace...
…I just think he has the potential to be, and needs to get the chance to show it. The stuff I posted about him was worded poorly. He IS thick and athletic, and can dunk, and plays actual post defense, and knows how to defend a screen, and talks on defense (Jason Jones tweeted about this, actually). I DON’T know if he can for sure block shots, but he’s got the athletic ability to do so. I DON’T know if he’s Ben Wallace lite, but his skill set seemingly indicates that he’s got the potential to be.
Dorsey had the advantage of playing major minutes in the D-League, something I wish the Kings would consider doing more often with their young players. Consistent minutes at a lower level are probably more helpful than rare minutes at the highest level.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Contrast
Joey Dorsey vs Ben Wallace. So you might be right. But, if that’s the contrast it will take Wallace quite some time to develop.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Or Dorsal fin I mean.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
by pookeyguru on Feb 24, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Works for me
I like how it shortens the player names on the BBR links…Ben Wallace is “Wallabe” and Dorsey is “Dorsejo”. Could get some good nicknames like that…first five of the last name and first two of the first.
Evansty
Greendo
Casspom
Landrca
Thompja
Udrihbe
Garcifr
Hawessp
Mayse
McGuido (best one)
Brockjo
Dorsejo
Nocioan
Udokaim
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Guys played in 12 games over 2 yrs, and 2 of the 12 with the Kings
Doesn’t say much for the Kings, if he jumps out as a special player when he’s had 1 practice and hasn’t had time to learn the defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
And I am getting tired
of complimenting players for good fourth quarters of games that were decided in the third quarter. I do not think it is impressive to out score a team in the fourth when they led by thirty going into it. Our guys are just padding their stats against the other teams bench.
Detroit plays a 9 man rotation, and played everyone but one in that game.
It was mostly the scubs who played in the 4th for the Pistons.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Good example
We still are so lacking in fundamentals, and he has had these guys for fifty games, I wonder what goes on in time outs. We do not look well coached.
CC; perimeter shots because I believe Detroit went into a zone
and without Hawes operating from the high post there’s really no one else who knows how to crack it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
I want to see Spence and Landry.
High and low post.
Nobody gets through screens
The Kings switch on practically all screens…leaving mismatches between the dribbler and the defender. We are usually the ones that end up on the bad side of the matchup after the switch. Big men (frequently Spence, JT can’t guard guards either) get switched on to a small guard, a few dribbles, and a practically undefended jumpshot. Time and time again. Also, I have yet to see Omri EVER get through a screen, leaving his teammate to switch and usually ending up in a bucket for the other team. I blame the original defender for not getting through the screen and probably the team’s defensive “scheme.” A few unfavorable switches during a game is forgivable, because it happens to even the best defensive teams. However, when it happens to our defense pretty much every time the opposing team is setting a pick, it’s not hard to see why our defense sucks.
Switches and who to switch on are usually coaching decisions made before the game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
yeah
but it is like both players are using different strategies. It could be poor communication too. The help defender has to call that out so Omri knows the screen is coming and can get out on top.
Yes, It seems like everyone in the league does that but our team.
I post back after Hilton’s first game, that he got stuck out on top during a switch, and was begging for the other players to tell him what was going on behind him so he wouldn’t have to turn his head to findout where the pick was coming from, and no one answered him.
These are simple skills taught at the high school level, and I find it sad to see it on my pro team. Which is why I haven’t gone to a game since.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
They don't talk at all
Well, except Dorsey and Landry. Hopefully they rub off on the other guys, and not the other way around.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Hell, I used to yell "screen right" when I was playing in the street with my friends
Thompson or whoever can’t yell that to NBA players?
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
So Hawes knows his role now?
If I were him I would have enjoyed that pounding with the lack of offense and defense, and understood that the team needs me.
Specer’s role? Starting Center/Ball facilitator/ only shot blocker on the roster. Thanks PW for helping him see that.
That was not the lesson to be learned here.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Some times the lesson learned is not the one intended.
by mike murray on Feb 24, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
...in bed.
Sorry, sounded like a fortune cookie to me.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 24, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
The lesson to be learned is:
What is said in our locker room stays in our locker room.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Another way of saying it:
There is an open door policy here – If anyone has a problem, talk about it with coaching staff, under no circumstances discuss it with media. Seems pretty simple to me.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
What did Kornheiser say about his suspension?
Stick a microphone in front of someone face enough times and there bound to say the wrong thing eventually.
As I read the story, Amick interviewed May who mentioned that teammembers were expressing displeasure over the inconsistent PT. Amick put the microphone in front of Spencer and he tried to answer Amicks question as politically correct as he could without making May out to be a liar.
Open door policy means you can express your concerns, it doesn’t mean your concerns will be addressed. And, when your concerns aren’t address, the result’s are the same whether you have an open door policy or not, your pissed. Well, PW got pissed too. So, much for the benefits of an open door policy. Now, everyone can be pissed at each other through the open door.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sporatic Playing Time Wears on Some Kings
was written by Amick on the 23rd.
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/02/23/2557205/rotations-wearing-on-kings.html
It starts with May talking about minutes, and mentioning JT and Hawes. Later Amick writes
Hawes acknowledged his frustration, saying “that’s about right” when asked if this trend made an already-tough situation tougher.
It’s possible if May hadn’t spoken up, Amick never would have know to go ask Spencer to comfirm what May said.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
but I wasn't quoting the interview, I was quoting the story.
and I doubt Amick used Jones’ interview to write his story. I’m sure Amick gets his own time with the players and can get his own quotes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Hawes needs 2 grow up
He hasn’t earned anything in this league to stand out on his own
Maybe if he’d listen to PW, he’d be playing. But he doesn’t want to, so he sits.
I think Westphal’s history w/ players as a coach speaks louder than Hawes confussion of his roll
Really? What has PW accomplished?
The difference is Hawes is a 21 year old 7footer with “potential”. PW needs to adjust.
OT - mavs fan here
In david thorpe’s chat on ESPN, someone mentioned that the kings brass was blaming Thorpe for tension between K-Mart and Westphal/Petrie. Does anyone have a link to this story?
No, but we like to blame others for our inadequacies
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This is what JayKim41 is referring to:
Tim (Sacramento)
Thorpegenius, Can I just say an “I’m sorry” for how my team treated you? Someone upstairs must not like you, so they quietly blamed you for “tension” between Kevin Martin and either Petrie or Westphal. What have you done, besides help coach and counsel our two most surprising draft picks in 6 years? You are the only national voice who consistently stayed updated with our team, and were positive at all times despite how bad we have been for 4 years. And Martin was always a first class act despite taking wholly unfair shots from some very ignorant people. The truth is, our players need more from men like you, not less.
David Thorpe
Thanks. No need to apologize though. I’m a big boy. I never saw tension between Kevin and Petrie, to be honest. But it became clear last month that Paul and his staff thought Kevin wasn’t any good. Daryl Morey must disagree. We’ll see who is right. That’s all I have to say about that, other than I loved rooting for the Kings for 6 years.
I haven’t seen anything about this in our local media – if there was, it would have been reported. Maybe TZ or Sam can add to this at some point.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Interesting
Thorpe: But it became clear last month that Paul and his staff thought Kevin wasn’t any good.
Seems like “Blame the coach” spin is in full force. Kick the guy when he is down.
In Kevin’s defense, though, the Westphal/Tyreke combo did not get Martin involved enough in the offense. That seemed to change a bit in the Knicks and Pistons games before the break, but then came the Boston game. Maybe Westphal was told to showcase Kevin, but we were lucky to get into OT against the Knicks and Kevin had eight points in regulation. Then he played very well against the Pistons with 26. So it was pretty much a “one-game showcase.”
By the way, I finally got the tape of Kevin’s postgame interview after the Feb. 5 Suns game from 1140. Here it is. If I get time at some point I will do a fanpost on it.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Kevin’s postgame interview after the Feb. 5 Suns game
Let’s try that again:
Kevin’s postgame interview after the Feb. 5 Suns game
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Still not working
Screw it, go to Twitter, search for Kevin Martin and see if the link there works. It should.
Twitter link to Kevin Martin comments.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Still not working - oh well, you tried!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
It works at Twitter
at least from TweetDeck, but not from here. Strange.
Sample:
Kevin: I seem to be playing my best basketball away from Arco these days.
Q: I don’t know, you had a tough road trip coming back?
Kevin: It hasn’t been as tough as it has been here.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
given everything else we've heard since
that shot by Kevin could be at PW, not at the fans, interesting.
I think its readily apparent Kevin and PW had serious issues and Kevin was happy to go, don’t you?
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I guess it's hard to say
I know PW did clam up when asked about Kmart after that Suns game, something like “I’ll have to go back and look at the tape.” It happens at about the 3:32 mark of his postgame comments that night.
Earlier in that tape about the 2:30 mark or so, Westphal comments on when the Kings were down 13 and were supposed to run to plays on consecutive possessions but botched their assignments and then led Amare get two straight dunks.
Again, I was at the game and watching Kmart a lot and he seemed to be going through the motions.
In any case, things definitely seemed to deteriorate between the Kings brain trust and Kmart almost from when he came back from the injury. And each new turn seemed to push a deeper wedge between the two parties. Kmart was clearly unhappy at the end and happy to be traded and get a fresh start.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
Kevin is gone - he is happy and we are still left with questions.
About the only person who seems really happy in all of this is Kevin Martin. That is not to say that he didn’t go through hell and back to land where he is on the Rockets. But, we may never know the full truth of what that “wedge,” which divided him from the team, consisted. We are hearing all sorts of things to make us point fingers of blame. Targets of blame include the fans, Peaches, the Kings franchise, his agent, his coach, his teammates, and Kevin. We have not gotten the full story.
For all the controversy, I am content that Kevin is gone. Whatever the nature of the maelstrom, I don’t think it ever would have settled down as long as Kevin remained on the Kings team. That relationship was doomed. No matter how good a player Kevin is/was/should have been/could have been, the brilliance that we knew was tarnished here in Sacramento. The love Kevin felt for his team vanished. In the end, as fans, we ask ourselves, “What went so wrong?” We may never know.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Works on Firefox, not Explorer for some reason
Here’s the raw link, try cutting and pasting it into Firefox and opening it there: http://bit.ly/czpKdr
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Yep, that works
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
That was really overhyped
I mean is that is all he said then what is the beef? I can’t really read too much into it without coming from a very skewed POV…
If you take his performance in the game, listen to the whole tape and go back to my original comment
I don’t think I overhyped anything:
The Latest Excuse
Now Kevin is blaming the fans at Arco for his poor performance. I was at the game last night, and he looked like a zombie. Strictly going through the motions.
If he can’t play at home and he misses a lot of games due to injury, what exactly are you getting for $11 million a year?
I’m not in the "trade him just to trade him" camp, but this marriage is headed for breakup sooner or later. If he can moved by the deadline in a deal that positions the Kings well for the future, I am all for it.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 6, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your response to that:
Hater
You are a K-Mart hater. Why don’t you just admit it? Everybody should just know that and take what you post with a grain of salt and the knowledge that your own emotions are engaged to the point where you cannot deal with anything related to K-Mart in an unbiased fashion.
by MustangMBS on Feb 6, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway, that’s all history at this point.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 24, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I tried listening to the tape.
None of them came up.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I wasn't just referring to you and it was completely overhyped
All he said was this?
Kevin: I seem to be playing my best basketball away from Arco these days.
Q: I don’t know, you had a tough road trip coming back?
Kevin: It hasn’t been as tough as it has been here.
and a lot of people acted like Kevin had just completely dissed the fans and Arco. Like he had said they suck or something.
I think people can read whatever they want into things and assume the worst. You tend to do that. You assume the worst of anything said and because of that you read a lot more, negatively, into it than is there.
I know your going to disagree here
And that is fine because I know the fish doesn’t see the water. Also, I don’t really care and just hope this goes away. You are right. This is history and best just laid to rest.
I was at the game last night
and had planned a Lttg’s view post.
But TZ has asked us to control the profanity around here . . . .
I do have news for PW; you don’t win any games scoring less than 90 points so you just may have to live with Casspi getting torched or Beno – or whatever.
In my view Prince was just on fire and there was little anyone could have done. There are some games where you just need to score and 101 points isn’t exactly crazy bad.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Well HT explained above why my impressions may be correct
It was a combo of a hot hand and a lack of help from JT and others.
It looked that way too, like he was left on an island against the hottest guy on the court. Not that Casspi is a finished product or a great defender but its obvious he is giving good effort and the team defense just isn’t there.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
I didn't understand why he didn't just swap Greene and Casspi and try that
Having Greene try to follow the most active SG in the league seemed like a bad move in the first place.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 24, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I was wondering the exact same thing.
Just switch the defensive assignments. Greene on Prince
On positive note
a win for the Pistons last night solidifies their lead ahead of us, er behind us, in the lotto ball sweepstakes. They have 3 more wins (18 vs. 21) which based on the way we are playing looks to be insurmountable!!
And the Knicks, while losers of 9 in a row, and 19 wins, are going to get more wins with Sergio and T-Mac. Team is playing nice basketball, and a lot more fun to watch post-trade. T-Mac has something left after all!
Until other details come out, courtesy of Sam Amick no doubt, I have to defer to PW on this one. And I like Spencer. But remember Spencer is a guy who felt he arrived by end of his rookie year, although he has never proven he is a capable starting center in the NBA. He blew off summer league last summer, and feels he should not have pass conditioning tests without prodding. He is basically a big spoiled kid and PW sees potential going to waste.
PW is pulling a page from the Greg Popovich playbook on this one, and I have no problem with it. It worked on Tony Parker and Manu G, let’s hope Spencer responds. I would argue the difference between riding a guy like Spencer and being lax on Sean May for same harmless quotes is Sean May is not capable of giving much more to the team than 5 to 10 minute spark, whereas Spencer has a lot more to give, and he needs to realize that. He has decide if he wants to be a career journeyman and bounce around the league, or find a home in Sac as a legitimate NBA center. Right now it could go either way.
Is it possible this season is done at game 57?
32 more and our collective hope should be for more (gulp!!!) ping pong balls and less infighting…let’s just get through this season without engulfing the team in flames…..
Henry Abbott of TrueHoop's take
Paul Westphal will play who he wants to play
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
And, to think if PW had been a bigger Man, this would have all blown away.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think anytime
someone pulls a power play, whether it be player, coach, GM, or owner, it comes across as petulant, and it loses trust. I had an old manager at Bel Air back in the day, Dino (RIP), who told me that every time you have to tell someone your the boss, the less and less they believe you.
by MichaelMack on Feb 24, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
He also links
Both the Hawes Westphal animation and hysterically
Morley working over Donnie Walsh in NY, a can’t miss
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
spencer's "role"
i will freely admit that i do not know what has been going on in the locker room this year. but based on the facts available, on an objective look at the kings roster, spencer should be this team’s starting center playing 25-35 minutes per game. the offense AND defense are better when he is on the court instead of jt.
i don’t like my coach to prove a point at the expense of the team’s chances to win and force me to sit through 2 1/2 hours of a pathetic product. spencer is a better basketball player than jt, than sean may, than jon brockman, than joey dorsey, etc.
he has been jerked around this year and i understand his frustration.
this is not a good roster of big men. he gives the kings the best chance to win. period.
(see grasul’s post above re the particulars of said jerkaround)
and if he was truly insubordinate than sit him down but don’t play biggest baby in the sandbox at the postgame presser
by lchristmas on Feb 24, 2010 10:16 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Although Hawes individual stats are not always great
and he’s certainly had some bad games, I believe
the offense AND defense are better when he is on the court instead of it.
This is usually correct.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
In the PTS/REBS/ASTS catagory on NBA.com Hawes is 21 among centers
The Kings are 28th under the new Power Rating, so I guess Spencer is too good for the Kings.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Again, what is the deal with all the secrecy?
I’m sick of the cloudy nature of information coming from the Kings. We don’t know what really happened with Marin, nor do we know why Hawes was really sat down.This is bullshit. Why can’t we get the truth out of the organization? Is this national security? No, it’s a goddamn basketball team, and they need to clarify.
Well, we know Spencer wasn't suspended.
a lot of times when players gets in a fight with the coach, they are suspended. Then you get the press announcement, that such in such was suspended for activities detrimental to the team. So, I’m guessing that it didn’t go that far.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Have the post game comments been pulled from YouTube?
I don’t see them
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
PWs I mean
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
Not good
The organization must not be pleased
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 24, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Yea, come on Spencer, light up a joint and stick it to the man.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I saw this last night I don't know if it really means anything
The Pistons scored, Tyreke & Beno both went out of bounds to inbound the ball, they both called for the ball, Tyreke grabbed Beno’s Jersey, Beno ignored Tyreke recieved the ball, threw it in, then got it back to take up the court. Tyreke(now behind Beno in the back court) barked at Beno for the ball & finally Beno passed it back to him.
Maybe it’s nothing I don’t know. Just something that jumped out at me a little.
Another thing was when JT took that bad fall on his back I just didn’t see a whole lot of concern from the other players. Maybe Donte but then he got called back by PW & Casspi went out there & helped him up. Again matbe it’s nothing but just a few things I noticed.
I love beating dead horses.
Interesting observations.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
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