"Sitting Spencer Hawes and Hope in Sacramento"
by zotsi on Feb 26, 2010 12:59 PM PST
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PrintArticle about the Kings so far this year and statistical analysis using the Wins Produced stat.
With Wins Produced, .100 is considered to be average, so according to this statistic the Kings have four players contributing above this level (Tyreke Evans, Omri Casspi, Ime Udoka, Jon Brockman), and reasonable expectations that two more recent acquisitions, Carl Landry and Dominic McGuire, will also soon be contributing above average production. But one can contribute positively without being above average, so guys like Udrih and Thompson have also contributed to the Kings this year. However, I found it interesting that, at least by the measurement of this statistic, Spencer Hawes has not even contributed positively, effectively being worthless.
Now, while I feel WP48 is a valid advanced stat, I do have problems with it. For example I think it sometimes gives out unnecessarily harsh punishment to jump shooters who are below average at rebounding at their position. For instance, it isn't wild about LaMarcus Aldridge, although it still has him making a very positive contribution.
So I was wondering what Sacramento fans who catch way more Kings games than I do thought about Hawes. Is he virtually worthless? Or does he have value? PER likes him better, though still not above average, but +/- also isn't a fan.
Personally, a starting lineup of Tyreke Evans, Omri Casspi, Ime Udoka, Jon Brockman and Carl Landry sounds interesting to me, but then again, I am a huge Ime Udoka fan, so, grain of salt I suppose.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Dave Berri = Yawn
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
So...
Hawes = Maybe not sucky?
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany - Ron Burgundy
Come back to me in 2 weeks.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Hawes has + and - moments on the court
Hawes has the shortest leash I can remember in the NBA, for me , it would be impossible to play that way.
I had a coach who hated shots taken from farther out than 15 feet, and would scream during practice every time anyone took one. During a game, one time, I pulled up from about 18 and turned to look at the coach while I was shooting to see if he had that scowl on his face.
Its no way to play, knowing any mistake may be your last moment in a game.
I never see Hawes being an all star, but I would accept the 15 8 and 4 he is capable of.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Feb 26, 2010 1:47 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for a great deal of truth.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Hawes does suck.
He’s also only 21 or 22, so I wouldn’t call him worthless (yet).
by cabz on Feb 26, 2010 1:47 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Hawes sucks when he sucks
and is really good when he’s interested. That’s the mystery Westphal is either causing or trying to solve.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
The Kings are 18-39 or 31.6% win percentage.
When Hawes starts they’re 14-28 or 33%, when he doesn’t start they’re 4-10 or 28.6%
Based on NBA.com stats, for the combination of PTS/REBS/ASSTS among all centers
Hawes is 21st. and ahead of:
Dalembert
Dampier
Wallace
Biedrins
Robin Lopez
Przybilla
Of the top 7, 6 are on bad teams
Lee, Brook Lopez, Kaman,Bogut, and Al Jefferson
So, maybe he should be higher because we’re so bad.
But, then to it could be the type of team he’s on and how he’s used.
I personally think, if he were on a better team, that played a different style of ball, he’d standout, Put him on Utah in place of Okur, and he’d be great. Not an All-Star, just saying that no one would be questioning his value.
But, then so would most of the young core. the fact that we have no veteran skilled players to balance out the youth, we’re too helter skelter, and don’t complement each other very well.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
If only there was a way to see
what kind of intrigue a Spenser Hawes-Jerry Sloan combination would become. Put him on Utah and you might never hear his name again.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
He'd be great on Utah
they lead the NBA in assists, so he’d fit right it, and on a team with good defensive principles and players, all the consternation about his rebounding and defense would go away quickly.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
If you say so.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
My guess is...
Sloan would eat him alive. The guy doesn’t put up with any bullshit.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
No Sloan would make him better
that’s why he’s a great coach.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Another reason
Why statistics are a poor source of primary opinion. Gosh, I dislike statistics. Oh, and yes, I’m well aware of their uses.
There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.
That's so good Sammy. I dislike your opinion and by gosh, it's because I dislike your opinion because it sucks.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
by pookeyguru on Feb 26, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Yeah! Stats suck NERDZ
/rolleyes.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
So you disagree that Hawes has been underwhelming this year?
Or that a losing team only has 4 above average contributors?
The least useful statistic is more valuable than any poorly made opinion.
Mr. Fox
I do not see the question being posed above “Hawes has been underwhelming this year?” You’re alrtering the quesion originally posed, “Is he virtually worthless?” Which my response would be no.
As for you, pookey, all of your comments leading to mine are what I would classify as “virtually worthless.”
Statment stands, stats are a poor source of PRIMARY opinion.
There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.
rec'd
because I’m still laughing.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Maybe it was just me, but I had a hard time interpreting those statistics.
I am still scratching my head and can’t figure out how you came to the conclusions you made.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
What did you find confusing?
Maybe I could clarify it.
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany - Ron Burgundy
Basically the whole thing
With Wins Produced, .100 is considered to be average, so according to this statistic the Kings have four players contributing above this level (Tyreke Evans, Omri Casspi, Ime Udoka, Jon Brockman)
I do not see where you come up with these four players from the chart.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Maybe you only clicked on the "article" link and not the "statistical analysis" link?
here is the link
http://www.wagesofwins.com/Kings570910.html
Tyreke Evans has .148
Omri Casspi has .134
Ime Udoka has .130
Jon Brockman has .114
and Landry and McGuire in the past have had production above the .100 mark
I hope that is able to clear it up for you
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany - Ron Burgundy
Hell i think
Hawes would be great coming off the bench, if we can find a bangger, and real defensive Center to pair up with JT for the starting line up.
Reke, Garcia, Casspi, JT, New Center
Beno, Casspi, Greene, Laundry, Hawes
Late game lineup: Beno, Reke, Casspi, Laundry, JT
The way Hawes and Beno play off each other is beautiful, and it would be a great switch up for the other team’s defense if Hawes passing came off the bench. Plus his backdoors can get the starters pumped and what else do we need Reke, JT, and Casspi pumped? No team can stop that
I am certain many teams can stop that
They have so far.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Mar 3, 2010 11:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Actually the Reke, Beno, Casspi, Landry, Hawes starting lineup has been working pretty well.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
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