ROM & ROY, Oh Boy, Oh Boy!
by section214 on Feb 27, 2010 1:03 PM PST
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Tyreke Evans (left) and Stephen Curry (right) both stare in disbelief as Andris Biedrins attempts a free throw.
There are still games to be played in February (the majority of NBA teams have one game left for the month), but as I will be busy tending to my "real" life for the next couple of days, I thought that we might take a look at the rookie of the month and rookie of the year battles today, beginning with the ROM battles.
The Eastern Conference is a little embarrassing right now. Check out the top four candidates for the month of February:
Name
Min.
Pts.
TS%
Reb.
Ast.
TO
A/TO Ratio
Stl.
Blk.
Jennings
30
11.3
36%
3.6
5.3
2.1
2.5/1
1.6
0.1
Flynn
27
12.5
43%
2.6
4.5
2.7
1.7/1
0.9
0.0
Gibson
26
8.8
53%
8.2
0.5
1.5
0.3/1
0.5
1.7
Jerebko
24
10.1
59%
5.6
0.7
0.7
1.0/1
1.0
0.5
As you can see, nobody in the east is killing it this month. In fact, compare their numbers to these Western Conference rookies that likely won’t garner any consideration this month:
Name
Min.
Pts.
TS%
Reb.
Ast.
TO
A/TO Ratio
Stl.
Blk.
Blair
18
10.5
64%
4.4
0.8
1.5
0.5/1
1.0
0.3
Casspi
29
10.3
50%
5.6
1.3
1.3
1.0/1
1.1
0.3
Thornton
29
18.6
55%
3.7
1.9
1.2
1.6/1
0.9
0.3
I threw Casspi on the list here, because his stats are awfully similar to Jerebko’s for the month. That intrigued me, because we have all been wringing our hands about Omri’s play falling off. And while that is certainly true, it is also true that his numbers would earn him consideration for Eastern Conference ROM. Marcus Thornton is clearly the 4th best rookie in the league this month, but as you will see, he’s a bit behind three of his Western Conference brethren.
Well, a winner must be chosen, and I’m going with Taj Gibson. 9 pt., 8 reb., and 1.7 blk. are certainly more representative of the position he plays than the numbers that either Jennings (36% true shooting – are you kidding?) or Flynn. And while Jerebko is scoring more and doing it more efficiently, Gibson has been much better on the defensive side.
On to the Western Conference ROM. Feast your eyes on these numbers:
Name
Min.
Pts.
TS%
Reb.
Ast.
TO
A/TO Ratio
Stl.
Blk.
Evans
37
19.9
56%
5.8
7.4
3.3
2.2/1
1.5
0.4
Curry
39
21.0
56%
5.4
7.6
3.7
2.1/1
1.6
0.1
Collison
42
20.5
54%
4.0
8.8
4.8
1.8/1
1.8
0.1
If we awarded these guys 2 points for winning each of the above listed categories and gave them 1 point for placing 2nd (half points for ties), the scoring for the month would be 10 points for Curry, 9.5 for Evans, and 7.5 for Collison. If we narrow it down to the main stats (scoring, rebounds, assists), Curry wins again. Oh, and while Curry is the far superior 3-point shooter, Evans is equally superior at taking it to the rim. The true shooting percentage for both of these players speaks to their respective strengths, which is why I didn’t add columns for 3-point shooting or points in the paint.
All three of these guys bury the east, but I’m going to give Curry the slightest of edges. Now, I know that the fact that New Orleans is winning more games than the Kings and the Dubs has not been factored in here, but wins and losses just don’t seem to matter as much when you’re talking rookies. Rookies that get minutes are usually part of rebuilding franchises. In fact, you could make the argument that Collison benefits from being on a more talented team. I’m not putting Collison down here – he’s had an incredible month. But I think that Curry was just a little bit better all around. And don't give me the Nellie ball crapola - Curry has earned his numbers in the system that he is in.
OK, on to rookie of the year. Honestly, the stats ‘Reke for themselves:
| Name | Min. | Pts. | TS% | Reb. | Ast. | TO | A/TO Ratio | Stl. | Blk. |
| Evans | 37 | 20.3 | 54% | 4.8 | 5.5 | 2.9 | 1.9/1 | 1.5 | 0.5 |
| Curry | 35 | 15.5 | 56% | 4.2 | 5.3 | 2.8 | 1.9/1 | 1.8 | 0.3 |
| Jennings | 33 | 16.4 | 47% | 3.6 | 6.1 | 2.5 | 2.4/1 | 1.3 | 0.3 |
No one else is even close to these three guys, and Jennings is really just barely holding on at this point. Evans and Curry have similar stats across the board, except for the fact that Tyreke is averaging almost 5 points and half a board more than Curry per game. And in spite of Curry’s stellar play over the last two months, he’s not really closing the gap on Evans in these categories. During January/February, Evans has averaged 20.4p, 4.5r and 6.1a. Curry averaged 19.9p, 4.8r and 6.2a over that same period. Basically, Evans and Curry are playing at a very equal level if you discount the first third of the season. But it’s the Rookie of the Year Award, not the Rookie of the Last Four Months Award. As such, the ROY award is still squarely in Evans’ pocket, and it will remain there barring injury. Curry should easily overtake Jennings for 2nd, unless the east coast bias overwhelms him.
This does not speak to who will eventually become the better pro, or whether Evans or Curry or Jennings will get to an all star game or a playoff game first. It also does not speak to how much I would love to see an Evans/Curry backcourt. But as it pertains to who the best rookie for 2009-10, the consistency of Tyreke Evans from practically day 1 wins out.
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MN and Jonny Flynn
play in the Western Conference ;)
the best benefit that Minnesota has had this year has an Eastern Conference influence
If it were not for the NJ Nyets, Minnesota would be the Fail leader this season.
and big win for New Jersey over the Boston Celtics today.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 27, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
IN BOSTON
Should’ve traded for Chapu…
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Except for Oakland
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
And Seattle!
… Oh snap
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 27, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
The fact that entire teams base their defense around Evans should be taken into consideration as well.
Also, since when is Minnesota in the East?
My bets for Rookie of the Month are Taj Gibson and Darren Collison, if only because the Hornets without Chris Paul really shouldn’t be playing .500 ball, and yet they are. With Collison leading the charge.
ROY is in the bag for Reke.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Great guards
I watch nearly every Kings or Warriors game (Dubs games not backed out on CSNBA in Chico), and it has been a great pleasure to watch both of these fellas play. First, I am a Kings fan, so I have tons of love for Too Easy. Curry is much much better than I thought he would be—I dont think I’ve ever been more wrong about a player coming into the league. He is a very good playmaker, aside from being a creative scorer and great shooter. Evans and Curry arguably play the same position, and do it so differently. They would really compliment each other well in the same backcourt…heres to dreaming!
Totally agree
Here’s a hypothetical question for you: If we were to get lucky and get the 1st pick in the draft, would you trade John Wall for Steph Curry?
Personally, I would try to leverage more than just Steph (like, say, Anthony Randolph), but I would do it because I think Steph and Reke would be perfect together.
Dub much?
you are allowed your opinion. Mine is: back off on the Kool-Aid.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 28, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
actually, that was unfair
sorry. I may be guilty of spiked Kool-Aid myself.
John Wall has not done a thing but is projected to be a can’t miss star. Steph Curry is a wonderful talent and has produced nicely – a bird in the hand so to speak. But IMHO, you don’t trade a special talent for a really good one unless your evaluation of that “special” does not agree with the consensus.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 28, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
Wall is great...
…but his strengths are the same as Tyreke’s. He is nearly impossible to stop in the open court, he is a willing passer, but he doesn’t necessarily make his teamates better with his passing, and his jumper runs hot and cold. Sound familiar?
If you could send, say, Donte Greene and John Wall to the Warriors for Steph Curry and the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft and end up with a player like Cousins or Favors, I think you would have to look real hard at the deal. Curry is a great jump shooter and he is a really underrated passer, and that’s not the Kool Aid talking.
Great article
I’d have to go with Gibson and Curry for ROMs as well. If Tyreke doesn’t win ROY I will be very disappointed. And I echo DustyG’s comments on Curry. Although I followed him closely in college, I didn’t think he was going to be this good in the NBA.
by OriginalBallboy on Feb 27, 2010 1:22 PM PST reply actions
Yeah
Maybe it was the effect Douby had on me. Or the consistently labeled “weak draft” of last year. Or the fact that ESPN featured Curry so often that I was forced to believe that he was a story-line, not a legit player. Whatever it was, I’ve been very surprised.
Bé foréwarnéd: I am a mémbér of StR Groupthink méntality.
I like Curry's game a lot.
I thought highly of what he was able to do in college, especially against far better teams at tournament time. I was impressed with what Bobby Knight had to say about Curry over a year ago, I thought he’d have made a good pick before the draft, and I think he’s going to be a very solid player for many years.
Having said that, we got the better player. I don’t really care who wins the ROY to be honest, and if Evans loses it to Curry, it doesn’t matter. We’ve got ourselves a potential superstar here, a player to build around. The parts of Evans’ game that are still somewhat primitive are going to get better through practice, and if we can just get a solid veteran presence to help him lead the charge, good times are ahead.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
The Kings will really pull all the stops to lobby for Reke to win the ROTY.
it’s something that you can list in advertising. Casual fans notice that shit right or wrong. Plus, I think Curry is really playing for 2nd as Evans continues to do something that Curry cannot say: Evans has seen his team win more games with him in the lineup than Curry.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Curry would have to play out of his goddamn mind to win RoY
Or Tyreke would have to get in a bad slump (and if anything, his numbers seem to be increasing, most noticeably assists) for a while. If either of those happens, Curry should win. But Reke most likely will win. REKERoY
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I suppose my point is this:
Talking about Evans as ROY and touting his game is one thing, there are certain personality types who feel the need to crap on Curry’s game as an argument against him winning it.
Curry is having a good enough season to win ROY. Evans is simply having a better one. But for the record, I think that by season’s end, the vote will be closer than anyone cares to admit.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
I agree
Curry’s a baller. Part of me wonders how much of his numbers has to do with Nellie’s system, but I’d still love to have him on this team …. just not over Reke!
I've watched him plenty of times
and IMO, the system is not the reason why he’s getting his numbers. Kid can really play and is making the Golden State team go (which is not saying much, but still).
I’m happy with Reke, but Curry is a damn good player, Nellie system or not.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
This.
Did you see that “Dream Shake” he pulled against Anderson?
Sweet jumpin’ Jehosaphat.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 27, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah Sims I agree with this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
and 3
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 1, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
with your point on advertising and casual fans noticing things like ROY. I also don’t give much of a crap if Reke wins it or not. I mean, he’s going to win it, don’t get me wrong, but if somehow Curry gets the most votes I’d be ok.
What truly matters is who’s the best player for their respective teams down the road. If Reke gets it it’d be awesome for the Kings org and fans (epsecially casual fans that don’t really pay attention) but if he doesn’t then bleh.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Basically, Evans and Curry are playing at a very equal level if you discount the first third of the season
that’s why I think Reke takes it. Curry was doing OK the first third of the season, Reke was ballin. If Curry was playing like this all year …. it would be REALLY close.
I would agree to a point
The really unsung aspect of Tyreke’s game is his defense. I know that Curry can play really well, but he doesn’t have the same natural defensive ability, IMO, as our guy. Also, I just don’t see him holding over Deron Williams and burning similar elite guards like Tyreke has done, but maybe I haven’t seen enough games.
Or just look at it in a truly historical context
by Devastation Co. MMA on Feb 27, 2010 1:54 PM PST reply actions
And............
If you look at all the rookie seasons that have had similar numbers to Steph Curry’s you get this……..
Still an impressive list, and it’s obvious that Curry is gonna be really really good. But I think Tyreke is having all around one of the best 3 rookie season’s of all time.
by Devastation Co. MMA on Feb 27, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Hate to be an asshole
But this is what linking is for.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
This one's kinda nit-picky
16.3 PPG or higher? Is it because if you open up the criteria Jennings’ season is nothing special whatsoever for a rookie?
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 27, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Damn
Accidentally linked all seasons. Let me try again.
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 27, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I'll be the next asshole
Also it’s helpful when you use the ‘reply’ button to keep the conversation organized and know who you are responsing to
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Well there you go
You just accomplished in one try what many can’t do after 30 posts. Well done!
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I like this new guy.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 27, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, I just realized he joined a year before I did.
Compliment fail.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 27, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
I was going to say trr.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Check this one out
"custer’s battle plan at little big horn was more coordinated than deandre jordan" ~ lchristmas
Oh yeah?
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 27, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, it's on
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 27, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Stats are awesome.......
Check out Carl Landry’s per minute production when compare with these guys…….
by Devastation Co. MMA on Feb 27, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Is ROM simply a Stat's contest, or do real people vote?
I think Reke’s winning the MVP in the Rookie Challenge game, will carry a lot of weight in the minds of people back east who never watch West Coast Games. Plus, Reke’s game winning shot in the Utah game was the #1 play of the top 10 plays on NBA.com.
Both teams have 3 wins for the month, with each team beating 1 playoff team and 2 cellar teams. Atl for GS & Utah for the Kings, but GS beating the Kings might tilt that category in Curry’s way. But, with one game more to play, the advantage may fall to the team who wins the last game. Especially, if Detroit another East coast team can beat GS, although I doubt they’ll be a large audience staying up to watch on the East coast.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Maybe I'm mis-understanding you
But the Kings have already played the Dubs 4 times this year.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I think he meant
One more game to play in February
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Clearly I mis-understood.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Tyreke is so good
If he picks up that 3 ball percentage, he could really be completely interchangeable as a 1/2 guard. He’s what Hinrich hoped to become. ’Reke might even be better than Rose.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
Uh what? Fuck that shit.
Reke is Reke baby. Don’t need to be nobody.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I don't know who you're talking to,
because I wasn’t comparing Tyreke to anybody.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
hahahahaha
’Reke might even be better than Rose.
My friend, you are struggling.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
I bow to the master.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
This was nicely done.
As it stands right now, given the statistics Section214 provided thus far for the season, Tyreke should win ROY, even though Curry has been playing better than Reke these past couple of months. Tyreke has been very consistent throughout the season, whereas Curry has come on strong in the middle of the season. This said, we still have the rest of the season left. I think it will be very important how these players finish the season in determining the ROY, even though Reke has the lead right now. It is not simply a matter of whether Curry will “catch” Reke in his stats. More weight, in my view, will be placed on how each player finishes the season rather than how he begins it. It is that momentum factor. If Tyreke is seen as consistent and Curry seen as improving beyond Tyreke, more weight could go to Curry.
While I do believe at this point that Tyreke will win ROY, I do not by any means believe that “he has it in the bag,” as some people would like to believe. If Curry finishes stronger in the last portion of the season than Tyreke, then I think Curry will have a good chance of winning ROY. It would also mean that Curry will have racked up more ROM awards.
While none of us has a crystal ball into the future, I will make a prediction based on how the season has gone so far, from my point-of-view, of course. We all know that Tyreke was a huge rookie standout in the first couple of months in the season. He got a lot of media play and became known throughout the league. In the middle of the season, some of his excellent, but non-stellar play was due, in part, to a couple of factors. First, his efforts to make more assists in his game in response to criticism aimed at him that he “dominated” the ball, was a “ball-hog,” and his failing to kick the ball out to perimeter players, except when he was in crisis mode. Second, there was the whole Kevin and Tyreke controversy. I think that Tyreke had to modify his game, somewhat, to try to accommodate Kevin Martin. In several games that just didn’t work out too well. I think that cost Tyreke in scoring more points and wasted assists. However, Kevin Martin is gone, so Tyreke does not have to worry about accommodating him anymore. Currently, Tyreke has made progress in making more plays for other players and improving his assists. Now that those changes are in place, I think Tyreke has brought his game to a new level. Tyreke played a very strong game against the Jazz, last night. I expect that we are going to see more of that in the future. So, I am predicting that Tyreke is going to finish strong. As for Curry, he improved A LOT this season. I tend to think that his improvement will level off, for no other reason than he made a big jump in his game, now will have to maintain it. So, if the season plays out, as I think that it will, Tyreke will win ROY.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Trending
If Curry plays the last 25 games of the season as he has played the past two months, he will wind up averaging 16.9p, 4.4r, and 5.5a per game. If we take Evans’ worst months for each of these categories, he would wind up at 20.2p, 4.4r and 5.4a per game. Curry is either going to need to take his game to yet another level, or Evans will have to drop off dramatically (or get hurt) for Curry to overtake Evans.
Side stat – Evans ranks #1 in rookie PER, 7th amongst PG’s. Curry is 7th and 31st, respectively.
Again, this is not to denegrate Curry – he’s been fantastic these past couple of months. But I think that this data really emphasizes just how good Evans has been over a prolonged period of time.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 27, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I repeat...this race is over
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
The real thing that the Curry hype is trying to get attention of the East Coast voters who probably think Brandon Jennings is a distant 2nd to Reke.
I’m willing to bet this is more to get Curry 2nd place votes. There is no way anyone out there would be crazy enough to think that Tyreke Evans is the ROTY. People will wonder why Curry got it if Reke doesn’t. And there will be people who literally say: “What’s the point of having this award if you can’t get it when you’re CLEARLY the best rookie.”
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Agreed!
Now that those changes are in place, I think Tyreke has brought his game to a new level. Tyreke played a very strong game against the Jazz, last night. I expect that we are going to see more of that in the future. So, I am predicting that Tyreke is going to finish strong.
As others have said – the race is over. Tyreke will be playing his best ball from here on out. Curry, Jennings and Collison are all studs and the future of the NBA will be fun to watch.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I would not be surprised to see a lot of the point guards in this draft class
starting for in the playoffs for years to come. It’s actually quite ridiculous how many good point guards came out.
Tyreke, Curry, Lawson, Jennings, Collison all look to be future stars (hell you could say Reke and Curry are already stars)
Flynn, Maynor and Beaubois could be starters on playoff teams during their career.
Rubio, Teague, Holiday and Calathes haven’t really had much time to play and they could all be solid.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I am basing my comments regarding the projected end of the season stats from the stats you listed above:
On to the Western Conference ROM:
Curry
39 Minutes
21.0 Points
56% TS%
5.4 RB
7.6 Assists
3.7 TO
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Reply fail - for Section 214
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Clarification:
When I say “end of the season,” I mean not the total accumulated statistics. I mean the monthly statistics for the final months of the season.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
OK
Taking just the last month for Curry, he would finish with 17.2p, 4.6r and 5.3a. Curry would have a 3-2 edge in ROM, Evans would be the rookie all star MVP. Statistically, Curry will have still not closed the gap enough to make it a race. It will take a yet to be seen level of Curry’s game (which is tough for any rookie coming down the stretch of a season), or Evans falling into the tank for Curry to overtake Evans.
To be clear, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. My only point is that Curry will not have to just play better than Evans, he will have to play significantly better, something that he has not done through the first 70% of this season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree that Curry is going to have to play substantially better than Tyreke to win ROY in the last months of competition.
I would define substantially as being both quantitatively and qualitatively better in the eyes of the judges. I agree with you, I doubt whether that will occur, which is why I agree essentially with most of what you are saying. I am just putting a little more emphasis on the possibility that if Curry were to outshine Tyreke in the final months of competition, it could influence the judging to go his way. But, as you point out, Tyreke also got the MVP in the rookie/sophmore game. That could certainly work in his favor, if comes down to breaking a tie. Hopefully, it won’t come to that.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Another reply fail - to Section214.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Just for example
Curry would need to average 30 points a night for the rest of the season to eclipse the 20 point average for the season. So I agree that it is not impossible, but it is highly improbable.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Agreed that 30 points is highly improbable.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
ROY
I didn’t used to think Curry’s game was NBA ready as much as Evans’ but I am now warming to that possibility. I actually thought he would flop because the games I saw him in during the tournament, he was not a factor in. But I can see where he has matured, learned to adjust. Reke on the other hand appears to have slowed. I think Evans will need to adjust to the new personalities and whatever configuration Westphal will engineer. But I would say that overall Reke has more athleticism and Curry more court savvy at this point.
Natomaser
Agreed on Curry
Question regarding Evans – exactly where has he slowed? His rebounds, assists and TS% are all up this month. His assist/to ratio has improved. He is scoring .4 less per game, which can be attribued to his current slump at the line (75% FT for the month would have Evans averaging 20.6 per game for February).
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I don't agree with your statement that Evans has "slowed"
Evans is the most unusual of rookies – he is consistent. As Section214 posts above he performs like a veteran rather than exhibiting the up and down of usual rookies.
Unfortunately, his spectacular consistency has become mundane. Further, (and luckily) the lazy media will look at ROMs, the Rookie/Soph MVP and the 20- 5 – 5 and see based on numbers Evans is the clear winner. You are right, the media will look at this as a popularity contest – in contrast, many of these guys are not pros, but they are paid to be so. Many don’t do their homework.
Bill SImmons mentions in one his columns how the media has no accountability for their voting. This will result in the odd votes for Jennings, Blair, Casspi, Lawson, Collison and Jerebko. I hope one day that names will be attached to those votes so that voting priviledges can be revoked when nonsense choices are made.
This should be a two man race with Curry and Evans. Evans, however, is clearly leading with room to spare, and experts in the media, like David Thorpe agree. We fans don’t get a vote, and perhaps with our bias that is a good thing.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 27, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is so true and awesome
yet so weid because he’s a rookie
his spectacular consistency has become mundane
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
From Game 5 to 53
Tyreke has only had one single digit scoring game and only 3 all season (the other two were in his first 4 games).
Model of consistency. How boring.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 27, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
At first I was like "No he didn't", then I was like "Oh, he actually didn't."
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Good points
Robin Lopez actually got a 1st place vote last year. Yes, Robin Lopez.
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Really?
That’s sort of hilarious.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Upon further review,
it was a 2nd place vote. In Robin’s defense, he did average 3 and 2 as a rookie.
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Can't believe JT didn't even get a 3rd place vote
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Hey thanks for pissing Utah off for us.
They shot 67% overall and 58% on 25 3pters. On a back to back? Ouch.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
They were insanely on fire
I watched some of the game and damn, were they making everything or what? Sorry about that Xiane, but the Rockets fought with whatever they had.
Hope you guys get Battier, Lowry, and Ariza back soon
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Thanks man.
Just a small gripe really – that was never one I really expected to win, but I thought we were in it, that Utah would just have too cool off, and they never did.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
Some people don't think so
But Im glad Rockets fans appreciate him. I think we’ll like Landry just fine too. Hope it turns out to be one of those trades that helped both franchises. NY can fail
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I'm having trouble seeing what's not to like.
Scores a lot of points on very efficient shooting, is a great FT shooter, and gets the D in foul trouble. Can score from 3pt range, mid range or at the basket. Reasonable handle and passing ability.
He doesn’t look terrible on D to me, and I expect he’ll improve as he gets more time with the Rockets – he’s got quick hands, which helps, and he’s tall, too.
A lot of times fans (and I’m guilty of this at times) take out their frustrations on the guy the expect the most out of.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
I don't know what it was Xiane
I don’t really want to get into it too much because it has been discussed ad naseum around here but just know that most people here appreciated the guy and knew we had something good in him. With his deficiencies and all, he’s a hell of a player and on top of it a great person, from all we know.
At least he’s in a good place now. Can’t wait for everyone to be healthy in Houston (including Yao)
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Enjoy Martin
His efficiency and character is a treat. You wouldn’t believe many blame him for all the Kings whoas and can’t get past it. You are spot on about the fans taking out their frustrations on the guy.
Well
The offense is the positives. I think his reputation suffered here too from being a failed #1 option, but he is a very efficient scorer, so should be a great addition for you guys.
As for D, well, that’s another story. You see all the things we saw as well, but it has never translated to results. Hopefully, that is minimized for you guys though if Yao comes back healthy and can help protect the rim to make up for that deficiency.
Overall with KMart, you are getting a 2nd tier scorer (not an insult, but 1st tier creates more of their own shots and is Bryant, James, Anthony, etc.) who doesn’t hurt you in other offensive areas (not a TO machine, solid passer, great cutter). Ok rebounding for his position. And a negative on D, who will get some steals gambling, but who struggles to stay in front of quicker guards and gets punished physically by bigger ones.
Kevin Martin is an efficient scorer that doesn’t get his teammates involved or motivated, plays poor defense and gets injured every time someone looks at him differently.
Because it's his job to motivate his teammates
Not their job to motivate themselves. Right. Your act is tired, dude. He’s gone. Let him be.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Glad he is working out for you.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Yeah -
There was some talk that Deron Williams played hurt last night. Hurt feelings, apparently.
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DWilly put up 20 in the first quarter - apparently his ego recovered.
A 24 hour thing, it seems.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
Well
I read he was only trying to play through a bruised ego last night not a broken one. So it may have healed for tonight’s game.
I love
Curry and think he will be a heck of a pro. One of my best friend’s is a Warrior’s fan, so I have gotten to watch him play a lot. He will be very very good.
With that said, Reke is on another level. And even if the stats are close, anyone who follows the game closely would have to give it to Reke because he is the focal point of the O who opposing D’s try to stop, he plays in a normal offensive system and he is a + defender. Curry gets far more 1 on 1s and 1 on 0s (for threes) with Ellis being the focal point, he plays in an inflated offense which slightly boosts his stats, and he is a – defender.
None of this is meant as Curry hate. I don’t believe you have to demean one player to pump up another. However, Reke should win ROY hands down. Curry should be second. And this should be a fun rivalry to watch for the next decade.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Feb 27, 2010 9:24 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the following -
I don’t believe you have to demean one player to pump up another.
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Tyreke and Curry are very different kind of players
I don’t see this being a rivalry thing that will be followed for the next decade. IMO
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
How so?
They are different style players. But both will be team leaders – who are from the same draft class, play the same position, and play on two teams with a close proximity who are in the same division.
To me that’s a rivalry. What’s your definition?
I see a rivalry when the two players will frequently be compared to each other.
I don’t think that is going to happen, because they each have entirely different styles from one another. I don’t know if they are necessarily going to be playing the same position in the future. I just don’t think when people think of one, they are going to think of the other. That’s all.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Fair enough
I don’t think we really disagree. I was thinking more two stars on two local teams. But you have a good point.
I doubt you watch closely to the Warriors games because if you would you would
notice that Stephen Curry is playing with the two players that are ballhogs(alltough Maggette’s numbers are awesome but he’s still the ballhog) and in the first couple of months Curry was the third or even the fourth option on offense and had rarely seen the ball, while Evans was the first option from game one and he never had to watch over his back. Now when Curry has the freedom to operate he plays on two levels higher then he was playing in november and december. And I disagree with your point that Curry had better looks because of Ellis because he rarely got the ball on offense which is completely opposite of what you stated.
This is a good point,
though it is a double-edged sword. Evans has averaged 3 more shots per game over the season, but Curry has outpaced Evans 16.1 to 15.4 over the past two months. And while Ellis and Maggette may be ballhogs, they also take defenders with them, while Evans has been the focal point of the opposing team’s defense for much of the year. I think that it is fair to say that both players have their own set of benefits and challenges playing in their respective systems.
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Stats dont tell the whole story
SPTSJUNKIE hit some of my thoughts.
For one, stats don’t tell how well of a defender Tyreke is. Last night against Utah was a good story. He played tremendous D on williams, he when he gets switched off on a bigger player, its not really a mismatch. He can hold his own. I forget who it was, if it was Millsap or Okur, but one of the bigs tried to take Evans and he had no where to go. Evans is arguably our best defender as a 20 year old rookie.
Secondly, he is clutch and has won games for us. I can think of at least 5 games he has won for us at the end, thats pretty impressive. For these reasons, I think Reke gets ROY. But as others have said, in the long run its not a big deal. Curry has had a great season and surpassed my expectations.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
Since I don't have time to do GB&U till tomorrow
My prediction for the Clippers game tonight is we win.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Lazy. I approve. :)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
More like 3 days of working 2-11
And having to run errands in the morning.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
That's an ugly schedule
but it sounds like you are fighting the good fight, even if delaying GB&U is too bad for us.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 28, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
I know Aykis.
Just kidding mayne.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Too early to count out Jennings for ROY
It seems a lot of people here think he’s out of the picture.
Not that I like him that much, but the argument could be made that he helped improve a depleted team (Jefferson, Villanueva, and Sessions gone, Redd a non-factor) and keep it in contention for a spot in the play-offs. In the East, I know, but still. Other than Jennings, Bogut is their only legit player. But if they can make a push for the play-offs, andright now they’re on a 6 game win streak with good old John Salmons playing a big role, that will get noticed.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Reke is way better, but these things do factor in, and the season isn’t done yet.
Dunking Dutchman
... on the other hand
Jennings plays in the weaker Eastern Conference. Forgot to mention that.
Dunking Dutchman
I think the point that Jennings will have helped the Bucks into the East Playoffs (which is an important point with a lot of voters right or wrong)
Than that will definitely sway quite a bit of voters.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Ridnour has improved
Ilyasova joined the team, Salmons gives them a scoring threat at the two, Bogut should have been an All-Star over David Lee or Al Horford for that matter. There are a lot of reasons the Bucks are a playoff team, and Jennings is only one of them. I think they could have been in the playoffs anyway.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
True. Ridnour has been eating some of Jenning's minutes lately
(last night’s game shows that) but does his improved play offset the loss of Sessions, who was playing really well in Milwaukee?
And is Ilyasova more of an improvement for the Bucks than Casspi is for the Kings? And can we count Salmons and an aging Stackhouse as an improvement over Jefferson and Villanueva? Not in my opinion. And Michael Redd played 33 games last season, and only 18 this season.
I think many people expected Milwaukee to take a step back this season. They haven’t.
Dunking Dutchman
I agree.
But that wasn’t my point. My point is that voters will somewhat ignore what you said Aykis.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
btw, if you haven't seen it I recommend you go to
StandwithTyreke.com which is also www.reke13.com
Very professional website and looks enough like the Kings.com website and with the links enclosed on the Reke site I would bet produced and financed by the Kings, but who knows?
sometimes, it’s all about the blueprint. And that is what it takes today. Seems like Tyreke has some thoughtful people helping him out.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 28, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for the link
It does look like it was produced by the same people who produced Kings.com.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Warriors fan's take
First off, gotta say I love tyreke. You guys got a gem there.
IMO if Curry can get Warriors to have more wins than Kings than he’ll take rookie of the year. Otherwise it’s unlikely. He does have a bigger name to those who vote (cause of his dad/college) but Tyreke seemed to have this clinched by january 1st, and i think most voters mailed it in then.
That being said Curry is a big stage player. Dunno if you guys noticed, warriors were on national TV twice last week (god knows why…)
vs. Atlanta WIN. Curry put up 32 points on 13 of 18 shooting with 9 rebounds.
vs. Denver. 30 points (11/19 shooting), 13 assists (2 turnovers) 7 rebounds
I have to believe this will raise his profile as he basically outshone our ‘star’ monta. On that note, for such a star the Warriors are 3-1 w/o monta in last 2 weeks. Curry + 3 dleaguers + Turiaf is supposedly a better lineup than one with Monta. You guys want Monta 4 Landry and a 1970s pinto?
Would 28 wins versus (say) 27 wins really make that much of a difference?
Also, the Warriors won 29 games last year, the Kings 17. Wouldn’t a 10 game improvement and 27 wins mean more than a one game step backwards and 28 wins?
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unsure
but early in year sac’s record was MILES better than GSW.
My biggest hope for you guys
is that you get Nellie the wins record this year so that he can retire once and for all.
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i love nellie
But i’m with you. Sadly I fear who we will hire after him….
Probably one of the smartest tacticians in the NBA but his man-management skills leave ALOT to be desired and he’s totally lost touch with the normal NBA player. I really think it’s why he likes DLeaguers… they will listen to anything u say w/o attitude
I hate to say this,
because we need him here, but Mario Elie could be a good fit for the Dubs roster.
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Mario Elie huh...
I’d love westphal to be honest. Dream would be d’antoni. I’ve heard great things about Elie and remember him as a player. I liked Rambis to be honest, he’s doing nice things with a severely untalented roster in minnesota, and I think Brian Shaw (local from oakland) could be an awesome coach off lakers staff…
All i want is a coach who will run an uptempo system (I cannot stand coaches like pop or jeff van Gundy, or there retarded step child, mike brown) and who can develop young players. Dubs have alot of great ‘talent’ at PF. I still have hopes Brandan Wright can be a star if he can get healthy (he’s only 22 and has been super productive) and then there is Randolph who can look like Garnett/Odoms love child at times and Patrick Obryant at others.
Which reminds me, how awful a coach is Mike Brown?
I like the youth
If the Ellis for Mayo/Thabeet deal was for real, I would have done it in a heartbeat. You never know about those rumors, though.
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I would have too :sigh:
Not even that i dislike Monta but 6-3 scoring 2guards r very hard to make suceed. You basically gotta do what phili did w/ AI and build a complete defensive juggernaut around them
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