The Bright Side of Suck: A Better Draft Pick
by Tom Ziller on Feb 5, 2010 8:03 AM PST
in NBA Draft
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PrintI've bleated on about how the extended Kings swoon is neither surprising nor depressing to me. I realize I'm not everyone, though, and it's understandable a significant subset of Sacramento's diehard fans would be perturbed by the latest machinations of failure.
For you, my friends in the bleak, a silver lining: the Kings are currently in line to have the league's fourth-worst record, which comes with it a better chance at the No. 1 pick, and an assuredly higher pick either way.
We know from fresh experience that the No. 4 pick (even in shallow drafts) can turn out juuuuuust fine. Even more, we know that having the league's worst record doesn't ensure the top pick, or even a top-3 pick, and as such there's a great chance for the league's fourth worst team to leap up into the top three. (The team with the fourth-worst record has an 11.9 percent probability of grabbing the No. 1 pick, a 12.6 percent probability of grabbing the No. 2 pick and a 13.3 percent probability of grabbing No. 3. That's a 37.8 percent probability of leaping up into the top three on lottery day.)
We expect Geoff Petrie to make magic anywhere he picks. But obviously, the magic is greater in density at the top.
This also serves to remove some likelihood this particular asset -- the draft pick -- will be in play as we approach the deadline. Trading what could be a 1-in-8 shot at John Wall for anything less than a full-fledged star would be unconscionable (unless, of course, the pick is protected).
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John Wall + Tyreke Evans just made me erect at work...
wow this is uncomfortable, I am assuming for StR as well.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
The conundrum of John Wall
Pros-He’s John-Freakin’-Wall
Cons-His game is similar to Tyreke Evans’ game (around-the-rim scorer, athletically gifted, not much of threat as a shooter)
If you get the #1 pick, you get Wall but….What do you do with two awesome players with seemingly similar games? Both need the ball to score/facilitate. Both are highly regarded players who will want (need?) playing time in order to develop.
Or do you trade one of them for a proven big man? (please stop groaning) Seriously, what do you do if you’re in Petrie’s shoes? This is EXACTLY why “In Petrie We Trust” works, and why I’m not a GM. I would probably cry tears of joy before I sh!t my pants wondering what type of offense to run.
And, no, this is not the same as the “Kevin Martin and Tyreke Evans cannot possibly coexist” argument. Many have established that Martin’s game is a compliment to Evans’ game, and I believe the same…even if Martin is having his own problems.
Of course, Wall will soothe the NA-PG naysayers out there because, of course, Evans would be great at the 2. And I wholeheartedly agree, as long as he has the ball on most possessions.
So there it is. I suspect this will be argued more and more the closer we get to the end of the season. Please don’t flame. If you believe otherwise, explain away and I may change positions.
If we get #1
You draft Wall and see what happens. Any chance you trade the pick and if so, what do you need to get in return?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
You trade Wall or Evans.
Unless you want a situation like what’s happening now between Omri and Martin. Do you really want Evans or Wall playing about 25 mins per game, with minimal touches?
Keep Wall and Evans
Trade Martin and JT for Bosh. I would do a sign and trade with Toronto. If they don’t move him at the trade deadline, they should have some leverage in a sign and trade after he becomes a free agent (Bosh gets the most possible money, Toronto gets value).
1-Wall, Beno
2-Evans, Cisco
3-Omri, Cisco, Donte
4-Bosh, Donte, Brockman
5-Hawes, Bosh
That squad would be fun to watch and has a nice balance.
I still don't get the Cisco fetish
Ahead of Donte’ at the 3? I’m not sure in a year I even have Garcia ahead of Greene at shooting guard.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
I know this isn't exactly the same but...
this is an interesting point about player’s needing the ball, and should contribute to the discussion of LeBron going to the Nets (assuming they get Wall) or any of the superstars teaming up (Bosh, Wade, Lebron on the same team sounds awesome, but could they play an entire season together? How about several years? Shaq and Kobe lasted what, 5 years, and they are as completely different types of players as you can find.)
On the other hand, I cannot help think of the old Bull’s teams where Pippen and Jordan took turns handling the ball. The difference being Pippen understood how great Jordan was and deferred to him. In the case of Wall and Evans being on the same team, maybe Evans will defer to Wall, or vice versa. The problem is that I am not so certain their is a clear cut superior in that situation.
I think Wall has the talent and the intelligence to adapt to whatever system and situation he goes to, however. His ability to make plays for other people is a little beyond Tyreke’s right now. I think that they are just different enough to coexist.
But most likely Wall goes to NJ and LeBron and him form and unstoppable force. What is the record for alleyoops in a season? Pretty sure they could break that.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
And LeBron could alley oop to Wall.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Exactly. I feel bad for Cleveland, but this needs to happen.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
What if Cle wins a ring this year?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Then all the players get a ring.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think LeBron still leaves. He would have fulfilled his promise.
Then he could go on to bigger and better things.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Can't see LeBron leaving his hometown...
…for New York or New Jersey if they win it all. Both the teams in the greater New York area are a complete mess.
Pippen was a SF, Jordan was a SG
LeBron is a SF, Wade, and everyone else are some other position.
Wall and Evans are both the same kind of PGs.
Maybe you could have Evans play SF and have Wall distribute the ball to Evans as a cutter, but that’s really cutting it. ..Also…Garcia, Noc, Omri, Greene will become non-existent.
Well, Jordan and Pippen technically had two positions, but in reality,
they were both “swingmen”. The were both around 6"6’ and 220.
I like ’Reke as our PG, but dear lord… If we can get Wall, we have to get Wall. Tyreke can just turn into Joe Johnson with more upside, which is not a problem to have whatsoever. I like them as a 1-2 combo.
Surround them with shooting specialists and a rebounder, and you have a monster team.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 5, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. Tyreke and Wall can both play off guard. They can take turns.
Once Tyreke learns how to shoot, he might be similar to Joe Johnson or Brandon Roy. But bigger even.
Wall is already a pretty decent shooter. Better than Evans.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I have herd this as well
& while it is a valid concern I look at it as: Would you want to have Chris Paul & Dwane Wade on the same team? My answer is hell yeah! Lebron & Wade? Hell yeah! I hope this analogy was helpful for you.
I love beating dead horses.
Ah, the "WHY THE HELL NOT?!?!?!?" defence.
I like it.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Feb 5, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
if we got the #1
At this point, I’d rather look for trade opportunities. Wall is a great talent, no doubt, but if we drafted him, we’d have 2 ball-dominant guards on the squad…regardless of how we’d handle their positions.
I would prefer trading down and, maybe attempting to acquire a talented big via trade in the process.
If you're going to be in the lottery, you may as well be near the top.
It just can’t be said enough: We are rebuilding. Rome was neither built, nor rebuilt in a day.
I’d also like to humbly suggest that, no matter how well we draft this year, we are going to be in the lottery again next year, although I would expect to be at the lower end of it. Getting a rental like Stoudamire who could conceivably get us to 30 wins this season just isn’t worth the cost of derailing the long-term rebuilding plan.
2011-2012? That’s going to be an exciting season, and barring something completely bizarre, it will be a fun climb from there. And maybe in the interim, we even manage to shed some of the bad deals (Nocioni/Garcia/Beno), and make a decent splash in the FA market.
Until Halloween 2011, the only thing that truly matters is making sure the entertainment complex proposal keeps moving forward. The personnel of the team itself is in good hands.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Feb 5, 2010 8:22 AM PST reply actions 15 recs
+1
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
simple sound logic
and from andysims without the sarchasm. Just what in the heck is this world coming to? Is that the better side of suck I ask you?
To add:
As opposed to last season’s controversy in regards to “tanking” – this team is not capable of that attitude. They are young, they are dumb, they are inconsistent but they have heart. At times a weak pulse, but the pride of team resounds.
As for their chances: if the current rate of losing continues, the Warriors (who can win once their personal returns) may surpass the Kings, giving them the #3 spot on the draft lottery.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
On this note
the only thing that truly matters is making sure the entertainment complex proposal keeps moving forward
See my fanshot on how the Sac City Council as decided to jump the March date for all proposals and take an early look at the Railyards land swap proposal on its own.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Okay, who had Feb. 5 in the pool?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
I did!
Oh, wait, no sorry, I thought you said who took a leak in the pool.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
You know they charge us extra for that.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 5, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
So at this point should we be happy if we lose more games?
That gives a new way of looking at things. Enough of the winning games mentally. No more the cup is have full; make mine half empty, please!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
No, please!!!! Don't start this!
You haven’t been long enough to know that shortly after we start talking about the draft comes the “big” argument about rooting for losses. A gopod Kings fan roots for wins and checks the lottery standings after a loss.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
by SavageBeast on Feb 5, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
After last year, I lost all faith in the lottery
but was comforted as always by my faith in Geoff Petrie.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
I was just being facetious, I didn't realize that I had opened a can of worms.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Great quote. If I didn't just change my sig to what it is now, this would be going there.
A good Kings fan roots for wins and checks the lottery standings after a loss.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I'm still rooting for wins
But the key is finding the value in losses. We gave a solid Spurs team all they wanted for 3 quarters, took 6 minutes off, and then scared the hell out of them. As the team matures and gets stronger, these recurring lapses will become less frequent.
We weren’t even in most of these games last year. At season’s end I’m not sure how different the record will look, but you’d have to be blind not to feel like we’re in a far better spot, regardless of eventual draft position.
(And please, don’t tell our blind members I was talking shit about them. Thank you.)
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Feb 5, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Me as well
I did think we’d be around 20 wins by now based on early play – and its easy to see where I saw them. How amny close games, should/could have wons have we had in the last month? At least 3 or 4.
Now I really believe there are some wins out there in Feb and there’s a real chance to have a winning record this month.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
I'll be happy if we're close at the end of every game with a chance to win, Win or Lose
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Exactly
I would pin it down a little bit more and actually say that I’ll behappy if we’re competitive all the way to the end, win or lose. I want to see guys competing.
Oddly, I actually have gained alot of respect for Beno this year in alot of these wins and losses. I don’t recall him making great shots or anything but he seems to really calm the team down alot when things are getting out of control (often he is taking players aside on timeouts and seems very vocal within the team) and is involved in all the fun celebrations (I remember him and spence jumping into each other against GS and in the Bulls comeback him and Tyreke colliding into each other during a timeout).
I know they are a young team that needs more talent and experience but I also know that anyone in this league can beat anyone on any given night. It’s absurd to expect the Kings to always win but I don’t think it’s absurd to expect them to give every team a run for their money. This isn’t about “good losses” or lowering expectations. I think it’s a very high standard to meet but also a fair one.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
I have a funny feeling we won't
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I'm torn about what we need
I was thinking about our team and what our needs are. Martin always reminds me of Reggie Miller some how, which made me think of the Pacers in their prime. In comparison, I think what we are missing is Dale Davis (if only Brockman was a few inches taller!).
In the threads, the focus is placed on drafting athletic bigs that can do it all, or trades for players like Bosh or Stoudemire. I’d rather focus on a stout defender who can take up space grab boards – especially defensive boards. We have enough skill at the other positions.
Three guys that came up on my search were Al Horford, Kendrick Perkins and surprisingly DeAndre Jordan. Is there any chance of landing a player like that in the draft or via trade?
I wonder if DeAndre Jordan
might be the most available of those three. His team needs less help up front than the other two, and his rights are controlled by a dumber GM. I haven’t seen him much personally, but Bill Simmons’ descriptions make him sound intriguing— immensely talented, very young, and just emotionally unstable enough that it’s hard to say if he’ll ever fully harness his talents.
What about a swap of Donté Greene for DeAndre Jordan? Both are cheap, high potential guys who have shown flashes but haven’t put it all together. We’re a bit thin at center, they’re a bit thin at the 3 (with Donté’s multi-position flexibility being a plus for them). They get a more flexible player, we get a big (which are always at a premium).
Sorry— perhaps I should have put this in the asinine trade thread, but I though of it in response to what md333 said. Any chance we’d do this? Any chance they would? If they’re hesitant to lose their only backup center, perhaps we could add in Armstrong for Ricky Davis (whom we could immediately waive).
I gotta tell ya
that I was among the biggest ‘dog the Donte’ ’ guys in this village not long ago.
Now I really want to see what he’s got over the next year and a half.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
I love Donté;
I just think you have to give up something to get something. And getting Jordan seems like getting something, with Donté seeming like possibly a reasonable asset to give up.
i am just shooting at the hip on this
but i don’t think the clippers would move DeAndrew Jordan considering Camby is a free agent and Kaman and Griffin both have injury histories.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 5, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
That is to say,
the Clippers would be shooting at the hip, which is what they do.
I think you are shooting from the hip. I just say because it is funny/ironic.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Me too
Right there with you LH. I had no confidence in Donte going in to the season, even considering it a Douby like waste of time having him on the team. He is becoming a good shooter and is playing inspired defense.
We definitely don’t want Gerald Wallace PT II on our hands. We need to keep giving Donte Looks.
by OrangeLazarus on Feb 5, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
I hope they aren't dumb enough to trade Jordan
Camby is gone after this season. Kaman is getting old. They need to keep DeAndré.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Playing Center for the Clippers - it so easy even a Caveman can do it
Kaman will be 28 in April. Aged to some, not to others
Kaman is getting old
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
The Pacers comparison is really good.
I don’t know how it works with the Reke factor.
The Dale Davis point makes sense.
Remind me: Fill out that roster again.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Mark Jackson Reggie Miller Jalen Rose Antonio Davis Dale Davis
Also, they had Rik Smits when they went to the Finals in 2000. Maybe Spencer is our Rik?
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
WRONG!
They didn’t have Antonio Davis until later. They did have Sam Perkins, Chris Mullin, Derrick McKey, Al Harrington, Jeff Foster, Austin Croshere, Travis Best, Jonathan Bender, and some guy named Zan Tabak.
My next kid will be named Zan. That is just awesome.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Dale Davis led that team with 9.9 rebounds, followed by Croshere with 6.4 and Smits with 5.1
Sounds like Jason, Omri, and Spencer!
I think this team could have made the finals back in 2000
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
We have someone who can pull down 9.9 a game?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
JT is around 9
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sorry, quick threadjack
I have an extra ticket for tonight’s game. If you don’t mind hanging out with me for a game, send me an email to eduardo_m7@yahoo.com
First one to send an email gets it. We’ll discuss details through email. Thanks
The future begins now...
caution:
ticket supplier has been known to shout, whoop, and spur comebacks.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Heading to Reno for the Superbowl
or I would be all over it . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
wait, you're going to Reno
on purpose? I thought Reno just kind of happened, no one sets out trying to get to Reno.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
you been talking to last year's Donté?
Go Bighorns!
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Reno is like Denny's:
You don’t plan to go there. You end up there.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Feb 5, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My wife's plan
Although she likes football, its all about the roulette.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I never liked a game where you can money down
to “don’t come”. Though many NBA players certainly are fans of the “don’t pass”.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
I'm at 204
Send me an email and we’ll exchange numbers. Maybe we can meet up at halftime or something.
The future begins now...
Does Applebee's still have late happy hours on Fridays?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 5, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
What worries me, in the competitive world of rebuilding bad NBA teams,
is that the Kings have not kept up with other teams in acquiring draft picks. The King’s had 2 1st rounders last year, but so did the T’Wolves and Thunder. T
This season, the Kings might get a top 5 pick on their own, and that is it. Meanwhile, the T’Wolves have 3 first rounders (so they can draft 3 more point guards?) The Thunder will make the playoffs but still have 2 picks.Same for the Grizzlies. The Nets will most likely have the #1 pick and another late in the 1st. The Jazz are already a good team but will get a top 10 pick from NYK.
So what the hell do we have to do around here to get another high pick? Shouldn’t that be a goal this trade deadline? Isn’t that how our role models have rebuilt themselves (talking Blazers, Hawks, Thunder, even Grizzlies.)
We had a mid first rounder last year that turned into Omri Casspi, who is probably a top 5 rookie this season. Even if we ended up with 2 late first rounders, that would help the Kings acquire some young cheap talent.
This has to be the #1 priority of the trade season, even more so than a defensive big man.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
A lot of the times it doesn't matter where you pick if you don't know who to pick
Look at Minnesota: Rubio, Flynn, Ellington. Flynn was a good pickup, but Curry would have been better. Rubio is an unknown. Ellington has been inconsistent.
Oklahoma City: James Harden, B.J. Mullens. OK draft.
Kings: Tyreke Evans, Omri Casspi. Both on the rookie team.
Who had the best draft? Sacramento, by far.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Feb 5, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
nail, head. Aykis FTW
rec’d
what about the that team down in SoCal that get’s all of those lottery picks, year after year? Minny, the Bucks, the Wiz, the Warriors, the Pacers all have been lottery bound for years. Miami, two years after a championship got the #2, Chicago the #1 – none of these teams are impressive.
The Kings are not perennial doormats, it just feels that way sometimes.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I agree. Which makes me so interested to see what Petrie would be able to do with 2 top 10 picks.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I agree that that could be interesting
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
But shoot
If Petrie had two top 10 picks last year (say he had 10), he might have picked Casspi anyway. And you know what? He probably would have been right.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
And yes I'm aware of guy named Brandon Jennings that went 10th.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
My point is not where he drafts, only that he only has the one so far
I would be more than happy with another late first rounder in addition to the lottery pick.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Much has been said that you need to draft top ten for several years to rebuild
We nailed two top ten picks (should have been) in one year.
Thats a nice jumpstart.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I always knew you were smart lttg!!!!!
On a serious note, well said.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Celtics pick, perhaps?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
I would take Ray Allen and their pick if they gave us their pick.
But I am gonna stand by Philly as the people we should really be leaning on.
We could get Sammy, dump Noc or Beno, and get a top 6 pick.
They could run the Princeton with Williams, Martin, Iggy, Thad Young, and Speights. All they would have to do is figure out a taker for Brand.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
i would be shocked if they take noc or beno
they are looking to dump salary if they rid themselves of iggy
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
We're going to be 3rd worst in the West at the minimum
unless we go on an improbable hot streak and the Clippers falter. New York, Philly and Milwaukee will likely end up with better records than us, playing in the weaker East, Indiana, Detroit and Washington will be around the same record, possibly higher or lower, and no way in hell is New Jersey not going to have the worst record in the league unless they make a huge trade that really improves them.
So in my opinion that leaves two teams we’re guaranteed to have a better record than: New Jersey and Minnesota, one that we’ll probably have a better record than but they could catch us: Golden State and three teams that could be around our record: Detroit, Washington and Indiana.
So that gives us a range of 3rd worst in a best-case scenario (or worst-case, depending on how you view losing this season), to 7th. 3-7, that is where we shall likely land, although if New York and Philadelphia hit a rough patch and we win some games, it could be 3-9.
So the possible range is 3-9 with likely being 4-7. And that is just placement, not accounting for the lottery.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think I'll be adding a lottery projection to the GB&U.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
let me re-state my defeatist position on that
there is a 4 way tie with the Kings for lottery position and the Kings go from picking 5th to 8th.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
If I still want to see a winning record
in February, is that bad?
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
God Bless you, son
we all hope for that.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
As long as we beat the Lakers once
this season is a success for me.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement, Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order, and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Feb 5, 2010 10:55 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
+a lot
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Being that I watch every game I would like to see wins
but will find comfort in close losses TO GOOD TEAMS. I don’t want to see us lose to crap teams at all. I just hate it with a passion.
I love beating dead horses.
Just say No to John Wall.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Care to explain?
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Is their a better player in the draft?
BTW, I have jumped aboard the Favors bandwagon, I think he is gonna be at least as good as Stoudemire but plays defense.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Both need the ball in their hands.
Both are PG’s. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. But, I’d rather have a 6’5 PG like Reke than a 6’2 athletic marvel like Wall. It’s not that Wall won’t be great; I have no doubts that he will be. What I doubt is that John Wall adds more to the team over the long run with Tyreke Evans presence.
It’s a tricky thing to understand, I think, but I’ll try anyway. Wall is a guy who needs the ball in his hands to be AT HIS BEST. As is Tyreke Evans. So to put them both in the game at the same time, one guy won’t have the ball. That means one guy will have to be as good OFF the ball as he ON the ball. Easier said than done, and that adjustment will not likely ever happen. Players are what they are, and very few players make paradigm adjustments in their game that they don’t naturally gravitate to. Players improve on things yes. Defense, shooting to name 2. Rarely do they improve at playing off the ball. If they do improve at that particular area, they always had that natural ability.
My point is that you take John Wall, or you keep Tyreke Evans, but you can’t keep both. Trading 1 on draft day is very likely, and I suspect it will be John Wall given that Evans is bigger and longer than Wall is.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
by pookeyguru on Feb 5, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You still draft him or draft and trade
Too big a trading chip.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Okay.
Say you’re a team with 2nd or 3rd pick. You like John Wall, but you’re not going to give up major assets to get him. What do you do?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
It's the same scenario that I think the Kings used to their advantage last year.
It was never ideal that the Kings dropped to 4th overall, obviously, but it did work out that the Clippers, Grizzlies and Thunder were the 3 teams ahead of the Kings and none of them greatly needed Rubio (Evans was an after thought obviously by the time the draft rolled around).
Memphis, at times, tried to get Rubio to come around, but Rubio would never commit. That hurt Memphis a great deal. And Russell Westbrook squawked about not being the full time PG if Rubio did get picked. So, again, OKC went with James Harden instead.
I think those teams would have traded down if they could, but teams weren’t willing to trade up at the cost that Memphis or OKC would have mandated they get if they had traded down.
I think Sac would be in a similar boat because of Tyreke if they had the 1st overall pick. The best they could do, and I know this will piss people off, is get cap relief from someone like Beno’s, or more likely, Noc’s contract (if Noc isn’t moved at the deadline).
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Neither Okl or Memphis
had a chance to pick the consensus #1, Blake Griffin. So it would be a different situation. On top of that, most think Wall will not just be a Star ala Griffin, most think he’ll be a SuperStar. That changes everything for at least a few eager teams.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
At least thats what they're saying about him now
we’ll see when it gets closer.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Let me be clear.
I would prefer the Kings are in a position to take Wall and get serious assets in return. My gut tells me that the serious assets that Kings fans would expect are probably not likely to happen.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Some may feel, like those in the Kings FO
that Wall is/will be better than Tyreke Evans. Always Always Always take the BPA. Too many assets is the last thing you worry about.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 5, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
I understand this too.
I’m not arguing against the BPA theory.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I think people are expecting they'd be able to move from 1 to 3 or 4 and get significant assets for the move
I agree with you that teams probably won’t pay THAT much for that move. However, if we got the first pick and took Wall, I think you COULD get significant assets for him if you WEREN’T getting a first-rounder back…say, trading him to the Warriors for Stephen Curry (just an example, not an idea). The value of Player X in a trade of John Wall for Player X is a lot higher than the value of Player X in a trade of John Wall for Player X and a top five pick.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
I think the biggest thing the Kings could get is significant salary relief (which they would have to consider) to move Wall in any scenario.
But, is getting significant salary relief something the Kings fanbase would understand and agree with?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I would think so
Half the trades in the Asinine Trade Thread are Nocioni for expiring garbage like Adam Morrison and crap like that.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Which is not something LA would ever consider.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I agree
My point is that I think the fans would understand the upside of getting out of a bad long-term contract.
I DO think the Lakers would do Morrison and Mbenga for Beno. They need a PG.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
let us pray
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
That would be the flip side to the argument, yes.
Now there is the assumption that teams would do anything to get their hands on John Wall. But, that’s a large assumption. I don’t think it’s necessarily something that will get the Kings much if they do end up taking Wall.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Just for fun
John Wall % of team possession: 22.8 pts/pos:1.05 ast/pos: .41 to/pos: .24 PPR:1.28
Tyreke Evans 21.5 .97 .23 .13 1.14
Kevin Martin 21.4 1.05 .14 .10 -0.51
So, does Wall take the ball more than Kevin?
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Read what I wrote again.
And then tell me why USG% is important here.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I understand the point about actually having the ball in hand
Just thought it was fun to look at. Not really arguing with you. I have not seen much of Wall play. The statistics are interesting to me in that statistically it appears the argument for Wall is the same as Kevin. But obviously that is not the complete picture.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Also, Wall might actually make plays for other people, including Tyreke, more than Kevin, but producing the same amount of points per possession
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I understand that Ice. I do.
There are several inherent problems in comparing what you did. First, college stats and pro stats don’t necessary correlate. Some do, and some don’t. (I would not be the person to speak as to which stats correlate and which don’t. So I’ll walk away from that angle.)
But, as you say, it’s not the complete picture when you’re talking about stats. And, what is interesting is how much Wall shoots compared to Kevin NOW at Kentucky with a lot of weapons around him. Is that something that will help the Kings if they took Wall for the future?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I understand the differences. But as hard as they are to draw conclusions from, wouldn't you be at least the slightest bit willing to let Evans and Wall play together to see how it would work?
One comparison I ever hopefully and naively look to is the Bulls. Here is a sample from 92/93
Jordan %possession: 31.0 pts/pos: 1.09 ast/pos: .18 to/pos: .09 PPR: 246
Pippen &possession: 19.6 pts/pos: 0.99 ast/pos: .33 to/pos: .16 PPR: 284
in 95/96, the 72 win season:
Jordan %possession: 28.4 pts/pos: 1.14 ast/pos: .16 to/pos: .09
Pippen %possession: 19.5 pts/pos: 1.06 ast/pos: .32 to/pos: .15
That is the best example of 2 high usage perimeter players I could find.
I, for one, would be willing to give Wall and Evans a chance to play together.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
There's 2 big differences.
Pippen is a far better defender than Jordan, Wall or Evans. 2, Jordan and Pippen played on very fast teams that often didn’t have much to do with either co-existing. The NBA in the early 90’s was a faster league than it is today. (Even with the leagues effort to speed things up.) The 3rd difference is that Jordan and Pippen were the same size and interchangable that way. Also, by that time they had been playing 5 years together too.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Small nitpick
There’s been nobody in the history of the NBA who is a “far better defender” than Michael Jordan. And Pippen and Jordan weren’t really the same size – Pippen was taller, leaner and longer than MJ (not in that way).
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Ehh
Pippen was probably the best defensive wing ever. I’d say he was a far better defender. Baseball example: Justin Morneau is a very good hitter…but Albert Pujols is far better.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
There is no chance he was "far better"
Jordan was first team all-NBA defense 9 times. Pippen did the same 8 times. They were both premiere defenders at their position.
In no way am I saying that Pippen wasn’t a great defender – I’m just not as dismissive of Jordan on that end of the court either.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
I think Tyreke could be that good of a defender
And I don’t think either one of them wants to dominate the ball like Jordan.
My argument is simply that if the Kings were to luck out and and get Wall, I think you let them play together and see how it works. Why trade either immediately? Both are young, willing defenders and passers, and both want to win. John Wall is still pretty good size for a guard.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Feb 5, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I still think
That this team needs to keep acquiring assets – by grabbing the most talented guy on the board. If two players are too close to call, then you look at the fit with your current group.
However, we can clearly see that Evans is an alpha dog, high usage guy. I haven’t seen Wall play enough to know how similar his talents are to ’Reke’s, but if they are the same that could be a problem down the road.
You certainly don’t want to be the team that passed on the next Michael Jordan though.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
My point exactly. Don't get Darko because you don't need Melo
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Feb 5, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The next Michael Jordan isn't coming.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Of course not
But Chamberlain and Russell preceded Kareem, Kareem preceded Larry and Magic, Larry and Magic preceded MJ, MJ preceded Shaq and Kobe, and Kobe preceded LeBron.
Point is, there are going to be further transcendent players…will John Wall be one of those? Hard to say – but if he is and you pass him up…??
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
What if Tyreke is a transcendant player?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I hope he is
But I’m gathering your question is – if in theory Tyreke and John Wall are both Kings and are both “transcendent” players…what will you do with them? Or am I misunderstanding?
Again, this team is still in need of talent and depth. Drafting Tyreke and Omri (sure, and Mancakes) helps this team, but they are far from a place where you pass up superior basketball players to find guys that fill roles (IMO).
If you are in position to take Wall, I think you take him – unless Petrie feels that John Wall and another player are so close in overall talent and the other guy fits a glaring weakness.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Feb 5, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you are in position to take Wall, I think you take him – unless Petrie feels that John Wall and another player are so close in overall talent and the other guy fits a glaring weakness.
That is, indeed, the real question.
But my point is that if you pass up Wall to take a big (Favors, Cousins, Davis—take your pick of whomever you like) that is high quality and among the best in the draft, than perhaps the point here is not whether Wall is the best player overall in the draft. Perhaps the point is who is the best player that will help the team most in the future.
So, let’s say you take Evans off the ball and run Wall, Evans and Martin as your 1 2 & 3. Does Evans become as much of an asset at the 3 as a potential big you take? Does taking Wall mean that, mostly, you’re taking Wall because the fanbase would revolt if Wall wasn’t taken?
You can spin this any way you want, but IMO, transcendent players are not players who have potential to be All-Stars when you draft them. Everyone knew LeBron had that talent. The hype he had, the incredible amount of noise that surrounded LeBron has in many ways clouded many other great things about the NBA (including the opinion that there is LeBron James and nobody else on the court with him of any quality) and his own team. Yet, LeBron James and the Cavs haven’t won a title yet, and IMO, haven’t even come close to winning a title yet. Despite the transcendence of Bron Bron. All that tells me is that fans gravitate towards a player like Bron Bron (and in this case John Wall). Which is fine, and I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. In the end, all I see is that this argument comes down to dollars for the franchise, And, frankly, I don’t think you need a John Wall vs Tyreke Evans to sell the Kings in Sacramento. I think you need a winning team to sell the team to enough people to buy tickets and merchandise. If you have quality talent that wins you rings, that will probably keep the Kings (and if the arena proposals become reality) permanently as far as we can see.
Let me ask you this Otis (before I depart on this point): Let’s say the Kings get the 1st overall pick in 2009. And let’s say that the Kings don’t get any reasonable offers for the pick, and end up taking Tyreke Evans. Do you think the fanbase, even if Tyreke ends up winning Rookie of the Year, accepts that for the long run if they pass up Blake Griffin in the process?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Your point seems to be that they should take Favors at 1 over Wall
because Favors helps our team better, and in your opinion the most we’d be able to get to go from pick 1 to pick 2 is to dump Noc or Beno’s deal or something like that. That’s still a better move than picking Favors over Wall. Would you rather have just Favors, or Favors plus get rid of a contract? Regardless of how much the difference is, the fact that Wall is going to be worth even slightly more than every other player in this draft means you HAVE to pick him.
let’s say that the Kings don’t get any reasonable offers for the pick, and end up taking Tyreke Evans.
What is “reasonable”? Memphis saying we’ll give you pick 2 for pick 1 straight up is unreasonable. Memphis saying we’ll give you pick 2 and something, even something tiny, is reasonable, because you’re still getting more value out of the pick than if you just picked Evans.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Just a nitpicky comment
your assuming you can trade wall and nocioni or beno for the second pick
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Yes, I am
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather have Favors, move an unfavorable contract (Noc or Beno), and move Wall if that was the case.
My point is what if teams don’t even offer that? We’re a long way from any of this though, but it is something worth thinking about when the Kings cross the bridge of this possibility. Having the #1 pick is nice, and it’s a great thing for a franchise to have.
The other possibility is that the team at 2 wants a big more than Wall and doesn’t feel like trading up to get Wall.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Obviously if the team at 2 doesn't want Wall the whole thing falls apart
I was assuming that Favors is the only player in the stratosphere of John Wall in this draft.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I see your points
and I don’t think we can really debate this very clearly until the draft is actually upon us and we have a much better idea of what the talent at the top of the draft looks like (and where we’re picking), but if at that point it still looks like Wall is far and away the most talented, I say you pick him and figure out later how he’s going to share with ’Reke.
Basically, if you had a girlfriend who was fantastic in bed and you had a chance to add another girlfriend who is also fantastic in bed, are you going to consider passing on her for one that’s so-so in bed but fantastic in the kitchen? Personally, I’d take the two naughty ones and have my dinner delivered.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i don't know if i can fully agree with you here
As to the girlfriend sex theory, what exactly is the difference between “fantastic in bed” and “so-so”? Because cooking does technically matter. Eating out over night is frickin expensive as hell.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
It's either that
Or you do the cooking yourself.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
yeah only way anything is getting cooked my be
is if i buy some more charcoal, a can lighter fluit, and some red meat.
Actually am about to have my first home garden this spring. Should be fun screwing that up.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 5, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha, same here
except that now my wife is a vegetarian, so my grilling skills have been rendered useless as well.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
that's brutal
I spent one summer up in WA working as a farmhand on an organic farm with no cash and no time to actually go to a store and was stuck eating only veggies for about 6 weeks. It was BRUTAL when i finally ate my first hamburger. Didn’t digest it so well.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
i just want to know the difference here between the two forms of sex.
It’s too ambiguous for me to agree. I feel like we need some PER type analysis here
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Maybe I'll work on a fanpost for that
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
The difference between "fantastic in bed" and "so-so"
All I can say is you’ll know it when you have it, and it’s worth the extra food costs.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
i guess i was just trying to defend cooking skills, not trying to discount the sex part
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
To take the pointless analogy even further
I’d feel better about trying to teach Tyreke and Wall to share the ball or to teach a tiger-in-the-sack how to use a skillet than to teach a lesser player how to be awesome or a four star chef to do that thing I like. Still following?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i guess it is hard to teach a four star chef the art of the donkey punch
Zing!
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Another great point.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
If you don't know the difference...
then you need to get out more.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I just changed my sig
Why do you guys keep giving me awesome new ones?
If you had a girlfriend who was fantastic in bed and you had a chance to add another girlfriend who is also fantastic in bed, are you going to consider passing on her for one that’s so-so in bed but fantastic in the kitchen? Personally, I’d take the two naughty ones and have my dinner delivered.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Best rebuttal ever.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
That's an interesting question
I think there would be a lot of initial second guessing if that’s the case. Obviously, the missing part of the equation is how good Blake Griffin ends up in the league.
I do see your point of view on this – and maybe I’m not making myself completely clear here. I would have an issue if Petrie passed up a guy who in his mind was a significantly better basketball player for a guy that filled a specific weakness in the long term.
And to hedge on that even a little further, I would think differently about this if the team were further along in the development timeline (still young, marginal playoff team). As it stands, I think this team still needs to stockpile talented players.
So I understand why Portland took a guy like Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, because they were further along in their process and were looking for a very good player that filled a need in the frontcourt. And if Petrie had been in that position for the Kings (and had a talent depleted roster with the small forward role already filled), I’d have rather he take Durant – even if the center spot was a glaring weakness.
I could be way offbase in that thinking, but it amounts to an overall talent infusion in general for the roster – once you’ve done that, you’d hope your GM has the ability to move those pieces around to tie it all together down the road.
How’s that…clear as mud?
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
I would have an issue if Petrie passed up a guy who in his mind was a significantly better basketball player for a guy that filled a specific weakness in the long term.
Agreed.
I argued the same thing. Oden would have filled a need, but first and foremost you need a player like Durant. The question is Tyreke that kind of player. I’ll leave it to others to answer that question given that most people know where I stand.
So I understand why Portland took a guy like Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, because they were further along in their process and were looking for a very good player that filled a need in the frontcourt. And if Petrie had been in that position for the Kings (and had a talent depleted roster with the small forward role already filled), I’d have rather he take Durant – even if the center spot was a glaring weakness.
Here’s the problem, and I want to tie it all in here: How good is Tyreke, Kevin, Omri, JT, Spence, Donte and everyone else on the roster? Does this franchise need a player like John Wall to sell it to the fans? (Some locales need that. I don’t think Sacramento is one of them.)
There are so many questions here, and none of them will be answered until the day of the draft. None of this, of course, even suggests that the Kings will get the first overall pick anyway. So, there is that issue as well.
And Otis, if this was simple and easy, every team would be doing it. Complicated is what it makes this interesting; not the other way around.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
If you get Wall, you trade Kevin for your need.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Easier said than done.
I’m also not convinced Kevin would fetch a big man that would be of any significant help.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Nope. Still stupid. Durant and Roy on the same team? Unbelievable.
Of course, McMillan would have ruined him.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
It made sense then & now.
I don’t think Portland fans are upset by it. Other than Oden’s injuries, which are upsetting, I don’t think they are upset by the pick at all.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Exactly
…and you also forgot to mention Beno/Noc/Garcia/Greene/Omri will become virtually nonexistant on the bench if Wall came here.
And chances you don't have an opportunity to take Beno out of the equation either.
You might be able to move Cisco, but that would be tough.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Michael Jordan was picked 3rd
Hasn’t history already dictated that analysts don’t know crap about talent? Don’t let them dictate that to you.
3rd in a year with the Dream being in the draft
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
I guess so
We’re having all these ideas of greatness and throwing all these HOF names around.
What if Favors becomes that transcendent player? What if Ed Davis becomes that player and you pass him up?
Look, there’s too much of this “we MUST draft Wall with the first slot!” and then throwing around all of these names. Whoever Petrie thinks is good, we draft them. Petrie is obviously much better at picks than we are.
Understood
And everything I’m discussing regarding evaluation of the talent involved is strictly from a Geoff Petrie point of view. I don’t really care much for the ESPN, SI, NBATV talking heads point of view. And my knowledge of college basketball could almost fill a thimble.
I trust Petrie to evaluate the talent – so I’m really coming at it from this angle – “If Geoff had to decide between Wall and Favors, and he felt Wall was a superior all around talent, but Favors fit a more glaring need, I’d hope he’d pick Wall”. That’s all.
If we were clearly on the cusp of playoff contention, I’d probably feel differently.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
personally i think analysts have done a pretty good job of figuring out talent.
No way they can be right every time
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Hakeem Olajuwon and Michael Jordan were far and away the 2 best players out of a very good draft.
John Stockton ended up being the 3rd best player in the draft. Charles Barkley the 4th. Dream was drafted 1st, MJ 3rd, Barkley 5th, and Stockton 16th. I think the mistake was letting Stockton drop so far. And even then Stock took some years to really develop into the stud he became.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Actually Dream, Stock & MJ were clearly the 3 best players in the draft.
And MJ was significantly better than 2 legitimate 1st ballot HOF’ers.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Here is a comparison of Tyreke at Memphis and Wall this season, with the understanding the Evans had worse players on his team
Evans %possessions: 24.7 pts/pos: 1.00 ast/pos: .23 to/pos: .21 ast/fg: .28 PPR: -3.60
Wall %possessions: 22.8 pts/pos:1.05 ast/pos: .41 to/pos: .24 ast/fg: .57 PPR:1.28
I am not opposed to Wall handling the ball a little more than Evans.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Two things that I think translate
from college to NBA are 1) guys who go get the rebounds, and 2) guys who distribute the ball. You can make an argument that they will not do it as effectively for one reason or another, especially point guards. But it appears to be true that if that is what they do, that is what they will do.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
I think percentages decrease a bit, but are still useful, more so that averages.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Or 3 times as it were.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
pookey I don't completely disagree with your take
and I think it makes a lot of sense.
but..
There is a chance, if the two guys were that good, that not only would it work, it could be spectacular. If we had two Tyrekes for example, and they truly enjoyed playing together, and they didn’t let their ego’s get in the way we could have a really dynamic team. Sure, you put your best defender on one, the other one is demolishing you. They wouldn’t have complimentary skills, but if they had good attitudes, you could surround them with the right role players and have a great team.
Would it work? maybe not. Would having two (presumably) great players like Tyreke/Wall be unprecedented? pretty close. Does it look weird on paper? Yah. But if a team is good enough, unprecedented works sometimes.
So, I think you have a solid case, but I still wonder What if?
Of course, I’d like to actually have the #1 pick before I really worry about it.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
by ForThree on Feb 5, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That is all I was trying to say.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
And I have no problem with you stating your case Ice. (Just for the record here.)
In fact, I prefer you state your case.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
You're wrong
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Of course.
Why else do I exist?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
To torture Peaches
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
That might be the worst thing anyone has ever said to me.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
You're welcome
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
You're right
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
You're right
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 5, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
We draft Wall
and pair him with Martin, who seems like the perfect fit for a point who dominates the ball and doesn’t have a great outside shot
Wall shoots the college 3 ten percent better than Tyreke did.
Evans shot 27.4
Wall shoots 37.5
I think dude can shoot
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Your mom is John Wall?
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
But Tyreke can't.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
A draft that I really don't care if we end up getting the best player in.
Thats a first. I just don’t see Tyreke and Wall together working out. Although I’d like to get a big like Griffin, but I’ll stick with what we have in Reke. Is Hassan Whiteside going to be in the 2010 draft? Because if Favors and Davis are taken I’d consider him.
I might be alone in this.
But I think it’s best to leave the whole “whose in/whose out” thing until it happens. Players pull out at the last minute for reasons that we, the public, do not always understand.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
I love Whiteside!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
SOLOMON ALABI
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on where it is
But I easily prefer him to Whiteside
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
Really, I like Hassan's upside much more than Alabi's.
They both offer what we need a big down low who can block/alter shots so I guess it just depends on preferences.
Hassan is the 3rd best big in the draft.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Alabi shoots 80% FT
Whiteside sucks at FT. Just one of the reasons. They’re pretty similar players, honestly, though both would be reaches in the top 7.
When life gives you lemons, just say "f--- the lemons" and bail
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 5, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Alabi is a sophomore but not nearly as good a rebounder. Not even the best rebounder on his team.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Looking for Sacramento dinner suggestions
I should get into town about 5 p.m. with a good appetite.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 5, 2010 12:23 PM PST reply actions
Der Weinershnitzel
Right by the Arena on Del Paso, the Coney Dog rocks and is way cheaper than what you get at the Arena.
I am not trying to be a smart ass either, we eat there before almost every game…
by OrangeLazarus on Feb 5, 2010 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
I was thinking slightly more upscale :)
Not to be picky, because I usually eat at In-N-Out when I go to the games. :)
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 5, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Right across the parking lot
is Malabar and they have some kick ass Ahi plates. Very nice place!
by OrangeLazarus on Feb 5, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
You could do BJs.
Or just go to the restaurant of the same name.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Feb 5, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's too early to worry about the draft
and always too early to talk about tanking. Just say no.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 5, 2010 12:28 PM PST reply actions
If you want to build a car, you don't build it with all engines and no body
Keep that in mind, guys.
That's a random analogy
If you want to pick up a hooker, you don’t do it without a few condoms on hand.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
*slaps my head
I was referring to the point that you need all parts working together to create a solid team. The engine, all the way down to the wheels.
I have no idea what you’re thinking.
Ok the hookers and engines are the point guards right?
The condoms mean if you’re going to spend a lot to score quickly you need a lot of solid defense, but, I got lost on the car thing a little bit.
by ElRonToro on Feb 5, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Only you ElRon.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
one of my best friends who watches a lot of basketball (and Chappelle Show)
likes to say that George Hill plays like he’s f*ing bitches with no rubbers.
Soooo, if we trade for George Hill this analogy goes right out the window and we never need to worry about defense again.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Just curious
But were people last year, before the draft, trying to figure out how Blake Griffin would fit into the Kings rotation and worrying about whether JT or Griffin played at a certain position?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
3 man rotation
At this time last year, we had Ike Diagu and JT/Hawes doing some kind of weird rotation at the C (kind of like what’s happening now).
If we drafted Griffin, he would have been given plenty of playing time.
My bad
I believe Noc mainly subbed in for JT, while JT played the C.
if you get wall
you smoke a large cigar cause you just drafted to franchise players back to back years.
Freudian
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 5, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
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