Inconsistent and yet constant
by kromeace on Feb 6, 2010 8:35 AM PST
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PrintIt's been tough to watch the Kings and I blame the coach more then the players.
The month of Nov. made us forget all about the previous season (it did for me) and the city was happy and with so many fans excited about being over .500% (again I was in that group). The running, the crisp passing is gone... there is the 4-Flat (ugh) there is more dribble to death and more running into 3 jerseys (or more) of the wrong color trying to play hero or draw a foul when in reality it's just a runaway Kings jersey. (keeping all identities hidden to avoid the wrath of those who feel they are married to the players) I have lost track of how many starting line ups the Kings have had, and how many adjusted rotations depending on what ever X factor match up the coach fears he is facing. This type of inconsistent line ups just leads to confusion and constant losing.
I am a fan of the Kings... I also want to watch GOOD games... I cannot pontificate all about the various nuances of this game and I do not spend my life on forums or blogs trying to convince anyone how much I know about this game (obvious DUH on many accounts, and I actually have a life outside a keyboard and screen) I will repeat that I am a "Fan"... which to many means I know nothing... but I do know the Kings are not fun to watch right now... I do know this feels much like last year... I do know that being inconsistent leads to being inconsistent and yet can have some constant results (multiple line up reference). I do know that a coach who has a penchant and history of being an "Offense" oriented coach will not delivery us a "Defense" oriented team... but with constant line up changes you impact the offense as well.
I am in sales and have had my most successful years and top ten national rankings when my manager recognized my strengths and I was forced to work on my weakness... and that same management gave specific and "Consistent" marching orders as to what my goals were, the message never wavered. The targets and goals were beaten into all of us while at the same time rewarding us for our efforts (besides the "WINS" we had in sales) along the way and learning what motivated each individual. Some on the team did not like this particular manager and he was not as well liked as other managers because he was tough... he also had a better and consistent sales team then the other managers year after year.
Yes basketball players get paid handsomely regardless of performance, where a sales person suffers for the lack of effort and truly gets paid in relation to their performance... but why is it in a sports game some teams with far less talent do so much better? Coaching... forget needing a leader on the floor... the Kings need a true "Leader" on the sidelines and in the gym during practice... I think the Kings are a better team then their record if they had better guidance and someone who was tougher on them for good reason... and unfortunately the only thing they are finally being consistent at is losing... so I guess the inconsistency is paying off.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Interesting take
Its too bad the team started well and now is having trouble versus the other way around. The expectations would have been easier to manage.
I honestly think the Kings are worse than their record indicates, not better. That doesn’t excuse the past six weeks, but we’re too young and short talented players before I’d expect to have a record much better than we have now.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Also
your insults of others on the board didn’t add much to your post. We all have lives outside keyboards and screens.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Speak for yourself
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 6, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Just trying to be ahead of a tsunami...
It has been pointed out how some rain on others who appear to know nothing… I have seen it and felt it is all… so its only natural to be defensive to some degree… and I do not see why it should take away from the core of post. Apologies if you or others feel slighted by those statements.
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
Staying ahead of the tsunami
and begging for it to come are different. :-)
I understand your frustration completely. PW seems to have a tough love approach, which I support, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point, but I can certainly see where someone else would want a different approach.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Whatever, I still like Westphal and I'm willing to give him until the end of next season to get this thing together
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 6, 2010 11:15 AM PST reply actions
Expectations
To date, this team is 5 games better than last year, and has cut point differential from
-8.6 (through 49 games) to -4.0. All of this with three rookies and their best player (at least at the beginning of the season) injured. And remember, to this point the comparison is being drawn to the Miller/Salmons Kings of last year, not the blown up and Natted version.
This year’s team is soooooooooooo much more competitive than last year’s team. The last two minutes of most games have mattered, and that is a quantum leap.
I’m not happy that we are currently the 4th or 5th worst team in the league, but I am happy that we have improved as much as is reasonably possible under the circumstances. It’s kind of like that I wish that I were making more money, but I am happy that I have a job.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 6, 2010 1:01 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
As usual your wisdom becomes us all.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
indeed
recd
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
This year’s team is soooooooooooo much more competitive than last year’s team. The last two minutes of most games have mattered, and that is a quantum leap.
I do wonder: If we won 2 or 3 more of those close games we’ve had, would people feel like the team was more consistent or better? Even though the only difference was often the last play of the game?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Great point
Too many people judge this team based on their record so I would think perceptions would definitely change.
Plus, a couple more close wins would’ve also earned the coaching staff a bit more support and benefit of the doubt. Just the nature of the beast I guess.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
One small point of fact
In January, the team’s point differential was -10.4.
Expectations are one thing, but the regression certainly needs to be pointed out. This team has been noncompetitive quite often lately, both on the road and at home.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Feb 6, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah i know i mentioned the closs losses thing above but it should be pointed out that we have gotten destroyed alot this month. I guess this is my way of saying that I understand the frustration after the Wizards and Suns game but at the same time confused by all the anger over the Spurs game.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Defense, as with almost everything in basketball, has more to do with the players than the coaching
This should be more apparent to Kings fans than anyone. We just need to look at Rick Adelman. He was known as an offensive-minded coach that didn’t excel on the defensive end during his time in Sacramento (a big part of the reason he’s not here anymore), and then he went on to coach a fantastic defensive team in Houston. He didn’t learn any new tricks – he just moved onto a team with naturally talented defenders.
It was unfair that Adelman was blamed for not being able to turn Peja, Bibby, and Webber into Ron Artest and Shane Battier back then, just as it’s unfair now to blame Westphal for the poor defense of K-Mart, JT, and Beno. Some players are simply not good defenders, and no coach can get a player to do something outside of his ability.
On a more positive note, I’m happy with Donte’s improvement on the defensive end, and I think Westphal deserves come credit. He was astute enough to recognize early on that Donte has the ability to be a standout defender, and he’s encouraged him to work on that part of his game.
by Charlieb on Feb 6, 2010 1:16 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
To clarify...
I’m not saying that coaching doesn’t matter – it obviously does. I just think that coaches in general tend to get way too much credit/blame for their team’s success, and I think Westphal has been a victim of that tendency in both ways this year.
by Charlieb on Feb 6, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said in both cases Charlie.
UNLESS that underground cavern was a David Thorpe run training facility. The problem of course, is that players really need to play in NBA game situations for them to develop well. So a league of cyborgs needs to be built along with a regulation-sized stadium and tons of fake fans to simulate real NBA games to develop the players. Though at this point the team is spending billions of dollars to develop those players, so you know… maybe it would be smarter to just wait. -- Iashwash
Case In Point
Several recent Coach of the Years being immediately fired the next year: Avery Johnson, Byron Scott, Sam Mitchell, etc. They got too much credit early on, and then the backlash of too much blame.
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
Here comes the blame game...
I knew that sooner or later someone was going to come along and start playing the blame game.
It’s been tough to watch the Kings and I blame the coach more then the players.
I think it is premature to start placing the blame on coaching staff. I happen to like Westphal as a coach and think that he is doing a great job. I may question some of the things that he does, but I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. He knows a lot more about the game and his players than I do. I think there is a lot to like about him.
I may be missing something, but I failed to see you back up any of your complaints about the coach with any facts. You did make the following statement:
I am in sales and have had my most successful years and top ten national rankings when my manager recognized my strengths and I was forced to work on my weakness
I do believe that most people respond to reinforcement for their strengths and are encouraged to work on their weak areas. From what I can see, Paul Westphal is very good at acknowledging his player’s strengths. He repeatedly talks about his players’ strengths in interviews. His players have good things to say about their coach. They have a lot of respect for him. As for the weaknesses, that too is addressed by coaching staff. The players have frequently stated in interviews that they are working to improve certain areas of their game.
Coaching staff can only work with the players on their roster. If a roster is weak in an area, that is going to affect the outcome of games. No matter how talented the coaching staff, they have to play with the cards they have been dealt. There are two key elements, which are affecting the outcome of games, IMO. First, is the lack of experience of a number of players. This is something that PW is working hard to correct. He is placing his key players in positions so they will get as much experience as possible. Second, the team still needs some key pieces, especially in defense. Until those can be resolved, then we can continue to expect to see more losses. If those things were in place, then maybe a finger could be pointed at coaching staff.
I fail to see your point other than you playing the blame game without backing any of it up.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
eh, not to be a jack ass but
Technically, how do you know PW is doing a good job? I am under the impression the poster here was frustrated and vented about how he wished the team was more consistent and he is wondering if it’s the coaches fault. It’s not really based on anything other than frustration, but I can’t really blame him for questioning the coaching because it’s really really hard to judge who is a good coach or not and often our best guess is the win/loss record. And we have gone over 40 games now, I think that is enough time to start asking about coaching. Granted, I have zero clue how good PW is at his job, but I think it’s fair to talk about it.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
i guess this is my way of saying that i don't think every post or comment needs to be constructive
Sometimes i think there is value in venting or just going off on a tangent with something. So long as we don’t start going into hyperbolee about how “defense wins championships” or “Kevin Martin is soft” I personally welcome it.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Agree with this
There’s an assumption that PW is doing a fine job, and IMO that is correct. Perhaps he’s scaling a very low bar (Theus and Natt). But considering the fact that he was not in high demand when we grabbed him, and doesn’t have a recent history of success – I think he shouldn’t automatically be given the benefit of the doubt.
I do like Westphal, and I think once he’s done tinkering with the rotations we will see a more consistent product on the floor.
Having said all that, I was WAY on the Larry Brown bandwagon a few years back…I still wished the team would have taken a chance on him.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Every time I hear a past or presenct player talk about PW, "he's a players coach" is what I hear
and the thing they like is that he give them freedom to play their game on the offensive side of the ball. Whether this is good or bad or a young and inexperienced team, I’m not certain. I do think it hurts from a team aspect currently, but the individuals are probably getting to develop their own individual game at a faster rate.
Unlike the salesman analogy, where when one person doesn’t buy into the managers direction and his sales falter, that doesn’t hurt the group and the others who are selling can carry the team. In a team sport like basketball, when someone doesn’t do his job, it’s harder for others to do theirs and cover for the person who isn’t. Just watch the other teams strowl into the paint after losing their man on a screen. How does a guy stop the ball and guard his man in the low blocks?
I too believe the inconsistency in the rotations leads to confusion both Offensively and Defensively especially on an inexperienced team. And, I have long believed that PW, is misguidedly looking for someone to come off the bench to supply what’s currently missing. But, what’s missing is a 5 man group effort, and he’s not going to find that by bringing 1 or 2 players off the bench.
We’re more than half way thru the season and we’ve all seen what the young core can do individually. Now, it’s time for Westphal to get more players involved. We’ve seen enough iso and 1 on 1 basketball.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Seriously?
I think the Kings are a better team then their record if they had better guidance and someone who was tougher on them for good reason… and unfortunately the only thing they are finally being consistent at is losing… so I guess the inconsistency is paying off.
So halfway through his first season, with two of his top six players out for almost the entire time, regularly playing three rookies, two sophomores and a third-year center who should be playing his senior year of college ball, you want to throw Paul Westphal under the bus? Because they’re inconsistent? Inexperienced?
Hawes and Greene have made great strides under him, JT is in a funk but will probably come around, Martin is having trouble because of the previous injury and the distraction of trade rumors (pray he doesn’t read this site!), Casspi and Brockman have exceeded all expectations, and Beno is playing at a much higher level than last year.
So while I understand your frustration, I believe that it’s misplaced. Westphal is teaching this team what they need to do to win. That’s why he calls a 4-1 flat at the end of a game, to teach Tyreke how to perform in those situations. It’s why he sends Donté in to guard their best player at the end of a game. It’s why he didn’t pull Casspi out when his freethrows were crucial and the other team was hacking him to put him at the line.
Are there times when I think Westphal makes mistakes in the course of a game? Absolutely. But I see what he’s managed to pull from this team, the way they compete and never hang their heads, and I’m encouraged.
Coaching isn’t the problem here. It’s a combination of inexperienced young players and impatient, unrealistic fans.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 6, 2010 4:26 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
I thought he ran the 4-1 Flat for a different reason.
We were tied, and he didn’t trust the team to run a play without giving up the ball and possibly getting scored on as the clock expired. So, he gave the ball to his best ballhandler and told him to sit on it until the last second, so that only the Kings could get a point before time ran out.
It’s not a bad idea, Cle does it with LeBron. But, it does show a lack of trust in the other players to move the ball, and get up a good shot.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
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