Glasstastrophe 2010: Season to Date
by Ziller on Mar 12, 2010 1:34 PM PST
in Numbers
20 comments
There was a smarter way to collect defensive rebound data for each Kings big man duo, and eventually I thought of it. Thanks to BasketballValue.com for adding years back onto my life!
Reminder: this is total line-up data for each pair of big men on the Kings. I created a cut-off point of 50 defensive rebound opportunities, which gives us 16 duos, new and old. For example, lineups featuring Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson rebounded 586 of 835 opportunities on defense. League average defensive rebounding percentage is 73.7 percent. Note that the table is sorted by opportunities, not rebound percentage.
NOTE: There may be some inconsistencies in the total data -- the totals from BV don't quite match up with other sources. (I have a feeling "team rebounds" are the culprit.) But assuming the numbers are consistently inconsistent, I believe this makes for a good comparison between the units.
I highlighted the two most common duos of late -- Hawes-Carl Landry (the starting frontline), and Thompson-Landry. You will surely note that neither is any good at rebounding the ball defensively. The derided, forsaken Hawes-Thompson pairing is actually quite a bit better.
It still stinks -- and that's the problem: there aren't really any good options here, in terms of defensive rebounding. (Something tells me Hawes-Ime Udoka wouldn't pan out long-term. Call it a hunch.) The team as it stands is destined for defensive rebounding mediocrity, without a rotation augmentation or unbelievable personal growth.
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This is great - easy to interpret and read - much appreciated.
It still stinks — and that’s the problem: there aren’t really any good options here, in terms of defensive rebounding. (Something tells me Hawes-Ime Udoka wouldn’t pan out long-term. Call it a hunch.) The team as it stands is destined for defensive rebounding mediocrity, without a rotation augmentation or unbelievable personal growth.
You’re right Ziller, no matter how you slice it. We still suck. The good news, though, is that this is an identified area that the coaching staff is working to improve. I am sure that GP realizes that he needs to be on the lookout for someone who is outstanding at defensive rebounding, if the coaching staff is unable to make significant improvements with the current rotations.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Is the difference here that you are looking at the whole year?
Cause the pairing of Spencer and JT has been pretty bad lately… Are we seeing numbers that reflect earlier in the season?
Is there some sort of overall efficiency stat we could correlate to these numbers?
I’m curious if any of these line-ups outweigh their (painfully) obvious D-rebounding problems with shooting effectiveness, O-rebounds, something…
Basically, given that every conceivable big-man lineup stinks at defensive rebounding, which ones contribute enough in other ways to make winning games a possibility? Also, what’s the best way to dig into the wealth of statistics you can find on the internet? Is a primer somewhere online?
If I understand those numbers correctly
it looks like little Udoka is the best rebounder on the team
that is why some players make millions
If you want everthing, then you are gonna have to pay somewhere between 13-18 milliion a year. That is why Bosh, Boozer, Gasol, etc, etc, make what they make. They score and rebound. Landry for 3 milliion is quite a value when compared to the others. You may give up 2-3 points on the average and 2-4 rebounds on the average. He may get a few less rebounds, but he hits free throws in the clutch, does not make stupid mistakes, or make boneheaded fouls and he is only 26 and in his 3rd year. If you want someone who scores, rebounds, make free throws, etc, etc, you gonna pay.
by noreboundsnorings on Mar 12, 2010 2:27 PM PST reply actions
can a young player dramatically improve rebounding efficiency?
I read that rebounding is one of the skills that translates from the college game to the pro game…clearly Blair and Man-cakes prove that point. But the question is whether a mediocre rebounder in college and early pro career can become an excellent rebounder…. i honestly can’t think of a player in recent history who was a crappy rebounder and willed his way into becoming a great rebounder… which then raises additional questions re: the future of a Shawes, Landry, JT combo. If they are not likely to improve, this will be an on-going problem unless one of them is replaced. Can anyone think of a player who got WAY better at rebounding during his career?
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Mar 12, 2010 2:47 PM PST reply actions
I'm not a draft historian so I won't attempt to answer that part,
But, there are certainly rebounding skills that can be developed and taught after College. Especially, for players like Spencer who only spent one yr there, and for JT who never had to go up against NBA caliber big men at Rider.
Anticipation of where the ball will come off the rim can be improved just thru experience. Certainly improved leg, body, hand and arm strengh would help. And, then there is timing your jump which may be the most important area to improve, The best chance of getting a rebound is if you can time your maximum leaping height so that the ball is there before you start to come back down.
I see this often with Spencer. He has good position, but starts his leap too early. He reaches his max height but the ball is still too high for him to reach. He starts falling back down, and a superior leaper would reach the ball before it got down into Spence’s reach. Dennis Rodman was such a quick leaper, that if he couldn’t grab the ball he’d tip it back up in the air, then go down and rejump before anyone else and then get it on the 2nd chance. Spencer can’t do that and needs to time his leaps perfectly, and that comes with timing.
A lot of the mistakes the young players make is do to eagerness and poor timing, and that can be corrected.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
There is hope for improvement.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Who's Thomas?
We didn’t end up getting Tyrus Thomas
lets give Dorsey some burn
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
by want2win on Mar 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Houston
Is defensive minded, and has a better record and Dorsey got PT, we need to give hime some time to see if he has value
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
by want2win on Mar 12, 2010 4:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Houston is also using 6-7 Chuck Hayes as their center.
Dorsey has an unguaranteed contract for next year at $950K and a team option the following year at $1M. Depending on whether the Kings draft a center or look for one in FA (Haywood is UFA), the Kings could keep Dorsey & Brockman, assuming that May is gone. It’s very unlikely that they can keep more than 6 PF’s/Centers.
They have 9 guaranteed contracts at guard and SF plus Spence,JT & Carl. They’ll probably need to add at least one or two more guards and another center is an 11 or 12 man roster. I doubt that they’ll go with a 15 man roster, more than likely 13-14 under the new cap.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
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