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The Kings are 11-9 when Nocioni starts at small forward, 2-11 when Greene starts at the position and 8-21 with Casspi in the slot. Ironically enough, the Kings' early season surge ended when Nocioni was taken out of the starting lineup after their 35-point comeback in Chicago on Dec. 21 that made them 13-14 on the season.

almost 2 years ago Demarcus_thornton_tiny Aykis16 61 comments 2 recs  | 

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How am I the first to rec this?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 14, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow. I had no idea.

Might be time to go back to Noc starting for these last few weeks. If he plays well, we might be able to trade him.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 14, 2010 10:10 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Booooooo.

Noc = wins
wins = lower draft pick
lower draft pick = less talented player (in theory)

or

Bench Noc = loses
loses = better draft pick
better draft pick = more talented player (in theory)

Noc wasn’t tradeable at the deadline so what makes you think that 18 games on a 22 win team would help his stock. Noc is who he is which is a pretty solid veteran presence as a starter or bench player. If the Kings can put together a great off-season, Noc might be a guy that can play valuable minutes next season. If the Kings were playing for the 8 seed in the playoffs, there is no doubt that Westphal would have put Donté or Omri on the bench and stuck with Noc. This exact situation may present itself next season so why not just leave him on the bench for now and let the young guys get some burn and play for next season.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not just that

Noc = wins, lower draft pick, and less PT for Donte/Casspi = 2 bad, 1 good

No Noc = losses, higher draft pick, and more PT for Donte/Casspi = 1 bad, 2 good

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by CaliforniaJag on Mar 14, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't even know the Kings had this guy on the roster

The guy is from the same country as Manu? That is so cool.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 14, 2010 10:17 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Haha!

Man, if I made that joke I’d be worried about NoceOne hunting me down…

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 14, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hahaha.

As long as the comment was fair and based on something solid, my bolo will remain sheathed.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Mar 14, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Noce, I gotta tell you,

I was at Arco tonight and Nocioni was totally bringin’ it!

I’ve always liked a lot of his game, but the guy was en fuego tonight, fully engaged every moment he was on the floor. You have a worthy favorite King in Noc.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 14, 2010 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aw...you almost made me cry...sniff, sniff!

It was a great game for Noce and Im glad I got to gamecast it. :-)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Mar 15, 2010 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sam's article focuses on the small forward position, which is still up for grabs.
Nonetheless, they’ve been at their best with veteran Nocioni in the starting small forward role.

The Kings are 11-9 when Nocioni starts at small forward, 2-11 when Greene starts at the position and 8-21 with Casspi in the slot. Ironically enough, the Kings’ early season surge ended when Nocioni was taken out of the starting lineup after their 35-point comeback in Chicago on Dec. 21 that made them 13-14 on the season.

While I liked the premise of Sam’s article, focusing on the possible players in the small forward position, I have problems with his conclusion regarding Nocioni being the best in that position. This is an example of using statistics to support your position.

He makes his case noting Kings were 11-9 with Nocioni starting at the small forward position. What he fails to take into consideration, there were four other starting players on the floor who each played a factor in that win.(If I call correctly, many of those early wins were due in large part to the bench’s performance.) Because Coach Westphal has changed his starting lineup so much this season, the other starting players varied. Consequently, it is unclear whether Nocioni was the primary factor, or if it was other factors(another player, the bench, games with lower ranked teams at the beginning of the season) which contributed to those wins. If all things were to remain equal, except Nocioni, a stronger argument could be made. For that to happen, all of the starting players would have to be the same each game, with the only variable being Nocioni. Then if there was a significant change in wins, then Nocioni could be identified as the only different factor in the starting lineup.

It would be more illustrative if the starting lineups for each of the 11 games in which Nocioni started in the small forward position were listed. Even if that were the case, it would still be a small sample size at best. Because of this, I would not draw the conclusion that the team was at it’s best because Nocioni was in the starting small forward position. There are just too many other variables to consider.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 14, 2010 10:25 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Do you really have questions as to whether Noc is currently a better players than either Donté or Omri?

I think it is pretty clear cut that Nocioni is a better player today but this season isn’t about today. Coming into this season, I felt that the small forward spot was the Kings biggest long-term question. Amick is just pointing out that after 60+ games, this is still one of the biggest questions going forward but for a completely different reason than before the season. We knew that Noc could play, now the Kings have 3 guys (at least ) that all could fight for the starting spot. By showing the win loss record of each player, Amick is pointing out that although Casspi and Donté both feel that they are the future for the Kings, it is Nocioni who has been the most effective this season. I like the argument and the way evidence was used because at the end of the day, Noc does a whole lot of little things that the other two young guys don’t that help a team win and he shouldn’t be excused from the conversation because of Donté or Omri.

Next season, the Kings start 0-0 again. If the team is competitive and truly looks like a playoff team, I want to see the players who give the team the best chance to win. This season was about young players and high draft picks. Next season, who knows but if Noc is on the roster, he can still help this team….if winning is on the agenda.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I disagree only because

I think winning should ALWAYS be on the agenda. Why would free agents want to come to a losing team? Why would people want to buy tickets and support the team if they always lose? Who is to say that playing young guys is going to make tomorrow better for the team? What if Noce or some other player is what makes tomorrow better? Just because his contract is bad doesn’t mean we shouldn’t play him or even try to keep him at an appropriate rate when the contract is up.

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 14, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get this.
Why would free agents want to come to a losing team?

Top 5 pick added to Evans and the rest of the young core.

Why would people want to buy tickets and support the team if they always lose?

The promise of long term success, young players developing and winning awards, young players playing during all-star weekend. Building a young winning core takes high draft picks- high draft picks require either a trade of an asset or a shitty record.

Who is to say that playing young guys is going to make tomorrow better for the team?

Because you can’t assess a player without letting him play in actual games, the NBDL is just not set up in a way to develop players. Worse case scenario, a young player plays, you lose and draft higher, best case, he rocks and you win. Would you rather see Udoka and Noc and a few more wins or assess Donté and Omri while losing a few extra games- either way, the Kings don’t make the playoffs.

What if Noce or some other player is what makes tomorrow better?

If by tomorrow you mean March 15, 2010 then you have a valid point. If by tomorrow you are talking about the future beyond 2009-2010 then I am going to wonder if you have found the fountain of youth. Players, like the rest of us humans, don’t get younger with age (unless you are Benjamin Button or maybe Michael Jackson) so to point to Noc as the future is strangely short sided. At age 30 going on 31, Noc is sadly on the last third of his career, clearly not a “future” guy.

Just because his contract is bad doesn’t mean we shouldn’t play him or even try to keep him at an appropriate rate when the contract is up.

I never mentioned his “bad contract” because Noc has a declining value contract which is actually pretty nice. Would the Kings prefer the 6.5 and 6.0 to go away? Yes, but only because the core of this team will be 2 or 3 years away from their prime when Noc is retired and living on a cattle ranch in Argentina. I have never advocated playing players based on pay scale, it is a fools errand.

Sorry Orange, winning should not always be the agenda. I don’t want the Kings to openly admit to making player development a priority over winning but it a fact of professional sports. The NBA, NFL and MLB all set up their player drafts in some form of worst to best. Bad teams need the best young players to become better teams in the future. Very rarely is a super star found outside of the first 10-15 picks- maybe Agent Zero and Carlos Boozer are the exception. The NBA is a league of super stars and in order to get those players as picks, you have to suck.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would free agents want to come to a losing team?

money.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 15, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

confused

Why did everyone slam people who said that trading Kevin Martin was a good idea because of the Kings win/loss ratio, however when Sam Amick uses it to support starting Nocioni it’s suddenly a worthwhile stat? People who think that starting Nocioni is the key to the Kings winning games are deluding themselves.

Will be sipping virgin peach cocktails with Mark S. Allen, Grant Napear, and Tyreke Evans when the Kings win the championship.

by Pollard4LIfe on Mar 14, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

I’d bet most of those wins came against pretty weak opponents at home. Sam doesn’t get a pass here.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Mar 14, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

My argument had nothing to do with who is the best player for small forward at this time.

I simply was pointing out that his method for coming to his conclusion is flawed. I have no idea who the best player (Nocioni, Casspi, Greene) is, at this time, for the small forward position. Personally, I like Greene, but I have no statistics, one way or the other, to back that up.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 15, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Noc should start

He is the most consistent of the SF candidates.

by KingsFan on Mar 14, 2010 10:34 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree he should start

but be taken out when the game is on the line, I’ve always liked him. but he’s a choke.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Mar 15, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm... I can distinctly remember 3 games early this season when Noce was a big part of our win in crunchtime.

1 was the four point play against Washington, another was the fourpoint play against the Thunder and another was a momentum breaking three against the Rockets.

Sure, he also missed 2 free throws which could have given us a tie, and airballed a jumper late last season which could have won us a game, But a choke artist? Maybe he’s not as good in crunchtime as Reke, Wade, LBJ, or Kobe but choke artist? Really?

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Mar 15, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe a choke is going a little far

but saying that 3 games in an entire season redeems him is stretching it as well. I think he just thinks too much and collapses under the pressure and seems to make mental errors that he would not normally make. Like I said I really like Noce and he is a great guy to help the younger kids (if they’ll even listen), I just think he’s not the best crunch time guy to go to.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Mar 16, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Noc is the team's best SF, and why that doesn't matter

Noc is clearly the best starting candidate at this point. As an NBA veteran, he already knows what Casspi and Greene are still trying to learn.

That being said, the present is not about the present, but about the future. And Andres Nocioni is not part of the future of this franchise, in my opinion. Even if inserting him into the starting lineup brought us an additional win or two, it would not be worth compromising the growth of Casspi and Greene, in my opinion. Noc would be better served as bench rotation guy for a contending team.

And 1 – Noc logged most of his major minutes in November and December, during the easiest portion of the KIngs schedule. I’m betting that this has had at least a little impact on the starter vs. reserve won-lost percentages. I’m not completely discounting the data here – this team is better when Noc starts. I just think that the difference may not be as great as the data suggests, once you plug difficulty of schedule into the matrix.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not so sure Noc starting

would in fact compromise the growth of the youngsters. One could just as easily make a case for them honing their skills while coming off the bench behind a veteran who has already put in his rookie time behind veterans.

I for one am tired of watching so many rookies mistakes being made like one the other night I swear I almost destroyed my TV set when with 0.1 seconds left in the half JT fouls Brandon Roy at half court who goes on to sink three free throws.

I’m tired of the sacrifice all for the sake of the future mentality. How about some balance?

by KingsFan on Mar 14, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Noc

was averaging 28 minutes a night when he was starting and in the core rotation. He has averaged about 15 minutes a night (when he plays – 4 DNP-CD’s and 2 games missed for DUI suspension) for the past two and a half months.

You can’t have it both ways. If Noc plays enough to make a contribution, it will be at the expense of Greene and Casspi’s minutes, especially with Garcia being back.

It’s fine to want to win right now, and more Noc would probably help with that. But don’t think that you can have your cake and eat it, too. If Noc plays, Greene and Casspi would see greatly reduced minutes.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

What if

the definition of “better team” is a team winning 27 games instead of 25?

What if you’re trying to determine what you have for the future, and you’ve already determined that Nocioni is not part of that future?

This is the Brad Miller and John Salmons thing all over again, except this time the youngsters are indeed playing. Personally, I would rather watch Casspi and Greene develop, even if that means an extra loss or two along the way. This is not a 30 win team, with or without Noc. I’d rather see the kids play.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Brad Miller

And speaking of players that are not part of your future starting. Do you think that Shipping out Miller and putting Spencer out there in the starting lineup with his experience and his quirks was a move that helped or hurt Spencer? What if Miller stuck around and was able to keep working with Hawes? The team would still suck but maybe Hawes would be better NOW.

Is throwing young players out into losing situations really developing them any better than playing veterans in practice? Does a team full of inexperienced 20 year olds really make each other better with no leaders around to help?

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 14, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that moving BradBaby was a must. With regards to Spencer some of his problems are circumstancial....

….and some of it is that maybe Spence was just never the player many of us was hoping he could be with some more time and seasoning.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 14, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think that it has hurt Spencer

I think that it is enabling the Kings to come to a conclusion on Spencer before they have to commit to his next contract.

And if you think Miller was going to provide Spencer more useful growth information than ‘Reef or Truck Robinson, I have an abandoned pot farm in Granite Bay that I’d like to sell you.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, seriously

contact me about the anite-gray aye-bay! wink wink!

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 14, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

You'll have to call ad-ray iller-may

It’s in his old ack-bay ard-yay.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rad Miller?

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Mar 14, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Code name.

Guy was high all the time. Not very creative.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 14, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

a change of coaching staff has something to do with that as well

it seemed to aid young Spence well the last 30 games of 2008-09 season

by betweentheeyes on Mar 14, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

What has hurt Spencer is his lack of committment to conditioning, strength training and the craft of basketball.

The Kings gave Hawes a golden opportunity to be a starting center in the NBA and he has half assed around and now the Kings need to look at other options. If anything, the Kings needed to get Brad and his immature ass away from Spence before he taught him the fine art of watching Cheech and Chong movies.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the present is about the future

one could also argue that it would have been better to showcase Nocioni as much as possible, to increase his trade value.
If that works, you’d have been able to shed his contract and get something nice in return. You’d also given Casspi and Greene more time to learn the ropes and (for Casspi) adjust to the NBA, and still give them more playing time after Noce was traded.
I’m not saying it necessarily would play out that way, but it wouldn’t have been a strange thought process and tactic, IMO.

In that same article, Greene already thinks that he has done enough to earn the starting SF spot. Wishful thinking! With that attitude, I wish he would have been riding the pine more often behind Nocioni, instead of having a sense of entitlement. (But hey, maybe I’m reading this wrong).

Bottom line is, we have no quality starter at the SF position yet, and PW had to pick his poison. But starting Noce in order to up his trade value could have worked wonders, I believe.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Mar 15, 2010 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really think that Noc needs to be showcased?

Every NBA GM knows who this guy is and what he brings to the party. Starting him or playing him more minutes is not going to change his value in relation to his contract, and that is the sticking point in getting him moved.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 15, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

My point is that young playing developing

might get a little affected in a team struggling as much as the Kings are right now. What do they learn loose after loose? Perhaps is better for Casspi and Greene to have lesser minutes in a team that is a bit more strong and stable. And I believe that Nocioni and his experience and competitiveness could help the Kings with this.

by palomba on Mar 14, 2010 2:11 PM PDT reply actions  

And two more wins

would teach this team a lesson otherwise unlearned? I just don’t see it.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I look at it like this

You play to win the games. You do that by playing your best players regardless of age. That’s where the problems creep up IMO. Noc doesn’t really fit with Reke all that well and that’s the major issue here.

With regards to records that means little too. Sam mentioned the Chicago game but he left out that Noc played like crap that particular game. Noc, IMO, lost the right to start a long time ago. Also the Kings played pretty poorly when Donte or Omri were starting consistently. Some of those games also included no Reke available to play. That skews some of this.

The problem as I see it is that Omri and Donte haven’t played up to their potential consistently. When either Omri or Donte plays well their contribution is far more valuable than Noc’s at this point. The problem? The same problem that existed at the beginning of the season. It’s just about matching the potential with the consistency needed from both.

This team will improve as they get older and develop more chemistry/trust in each other. The other part of this is that PW is trying to get Donte/Omri to become starting caliber SF’s in the L. I suspect a big part of this is mental and approach. Maybe mostly it’s a subtle reminder to both that nothing is guaranteed in a competitive environment. If I had to guess I would say that it is all that.

The real point, albeit made very subtlety, is that a young team with holes is the reason the Kings have 44 losses at the moment. While that may be one of the messages being sent the fans way, it’s a clear cut mesage to the players this is why you don’t guarantee players jobs unless they earn it. Hopefully our young crop of players understand and respond.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 14, 2010 3:00 PM PDT reply actions  

ruh-roh

I agree with this well-considered, well written comment big time.

Now, of course that in and of itself isn’t a problem, but check this, pookey.

Over on the Derrick Favors post I happened to mention that the article you pointed me to figured into my assessment that Favors is the right big man for the Kings.

slam-dunk then asked me : “does pookeyguru do your thinking for you?”

!

Oh, baby! Now every time you and I agree with each other about something (which is actually more often than not, I’’m pretty sure), I’m gonna be looking over my shoulder, wondering if slam-dunk is gonna accuse me of being pookey’s Yes Man. Your puppet. ;>)

Too funny, huh?l!! I swear, sometimes Sactown Royalty is the funnest part of my day…

OK, I gotta get ready to down to Arco and watch the boys kick ass vs the T Wolves!

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 14, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Groupthink strikes again!

(note sarcasm…I think…)

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed

if noc gives us the best chance to win, then start him
we shouldnt think about losing and then getting a better draft pick
the team’s confidence is low enough right now, winning COULD give us a “swag” going into next season
after all, we had the worst record last year and ended up with the 4th pick (thanks c-webb)

by Surprise Team on Mar 14, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Karma

Getting the 4th pick may have sucked at the time but at least it worked out in the end. We got Tyreke at 4th pick salary scale vs. #1 or #2.

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 14, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings had the worst record last year.

It is hard to see how anyone could confuse last season as any other than a tank job. The Kings sent out Salmons and Miller- the veterans of the team. They took back Drew Gooden and then waived him after his first game in which he put up 12 points and 13 rebounds in his only 26 minutes. Karma? You bet ya- Kings strike out on 1,2,3 and get the worst possible pick they could. And that #4 pick? The best player in the draft, a possible super star and the teams new franchise.

This Karma thing is one confusing son of a bitch.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anybody know how many of those wins were at home against sub .500 teams?

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Mar 14, 2010 5:09 PM PDT reply actions  

yeah

We certainly had a pretty easy run at the start or the season…

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 14, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Basketball-reference.com or 82games.com. Check with those guys, they will know.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Noc shoots fourteen points higher (.412 vs .398) when he starts

3 pt % is basically a wash (.374 starting vs .379 bench).

He shoots 61.8% from the line as a starter, 75% as a reserve (fatigue, or just a poor start to the season?)

Rebounds per 36: 5.6 vs 5.2

Fouls per 36: 3.1 vs 4.9(!)

What does all this mean? I don’t know. Looks like he plays a bit better when he starts. Does that mean that he should be taking playing time away from anybody? At this point in this season, I’d say no.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Mar 15, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know right?

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 14, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hahaha. Just weighed in.

My thoughts:

1) Noce no longer fits with the Kings. This is a young team which will peak in 3 to 4 years. By that time, the only shooting Noce will do is shooting deer and boars in Argentina. Kings future would be best served with trying to develop Omri and Donte. Wins now are good and all but I don’t think playing Noce 35 mins and Donte/Casspi 5mins each is the best way to go about that.

2) Noce needs to play. He is still a good NBA forward with shooting range, passable defense and unbridled passion. He can be an important contributor to a team like the Nuggets, the Mavs, the Magic, even the Cavs. If he becomes a threepoint threat and defense specialist for one of those teams for about 15-20 mins, he just might earn a ring.

3) Still, Noce CAN play and SHOULD play while he is here. I was fine with PW giving him 5-8mins a game. You know, just enough time to stretch the D a bit, give JT and Landry space to work inside, maybe hit a 3 or make Dirk/LBJ/Melo miss a couple of shots, help bring a 10 point lead down to 4 or extend a 1 point lead to 7…stuff like that.

Bottom line, I hope the Kings can trade Noce in the off season. Or buy him out. Also, watch out for Noce in the FIBA World Championships. He’s gonna make life hell for every other team there.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Mar 14, 2010 9:01 PM PDT reply actions  

No buyout coming.

With the new CBA around the corner, there is talk of another “Allen Houston Clause” which would allow each team the chance to buyout 1 player in order to get them closer to the cap. Garcia or Beno might be more logical because they have 1 more year but I don’t see the Kings giving away Noc when this option might pop up.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 14, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the Kings can save money this summer by moving Noc in a trade then they will.

Waiting for an amnesty that may not happen is pointless. (Also, Allan Houston wasn’t waived using that amnesty: Jerome Williams was.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you missed my point.

Yes, I know that JYD was the guy who was waived but it is still referred to as the Allen Houston Clause or Allen Houston Rule or the Allen Houston Project. Giving a guy 12.5 million to walk away is pointless especially when you still have his dollar figure on the cap for the same amount of time. The Kings can trade him, let him play, sit him on the bench, but to buy him out when there is a flicker of hope that you could wait a season and then buy him out and have his cap figure dissolve would be kind of silly.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 15, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just because people refer to it as the "Allan Houston rule" doesn't mean it's correct.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also

The amnesty clause didn’t mean players wouldn’t get their money. (It should really be called the Michael Finley amnesty clause. He was the big money ticket item that really benefited from that particular clause.) It just means a team using that provision wouldn’t have to pay luxury tax on that particular player.

The Kings are not likely to be paying luxury tax next season with or without waiving Noc.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings are undefeated

in games played since March 13th when Donté Greene starts at small forward.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2010 9:15 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

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