Grading the Kings and Addressing their Needs...
Although the body of work is not complete on the 2009-2010 version of the Kings, there are some conclusions that can be drawn based on what we have witnessed so far.
In advance of the NCAA tournament where we will all start evaluating our top prospects play this weekend on National TV and before the upcoming NBA Draft, I wanted to take a closer look at where the Kings are and what needs remain in order to bring the franchise back in contention for a title.
Ownership: C The Maloofs are financially leveraged to the hilt, lacking the wealth, portfolio and network to control the Kings' destiny without outside intervention. We don't know if the Kings will remain in Sacramento since all our hope seem to be tied to the Convergence Project recently endorsed by the NBA and Mayor Johnson' task force.
With that said, the fan experience has improved at Arco, Attendance is up, the product has gotten more competitive, The Maloofs have reinvested in Petrie and seem to be allowing the GM and Coaching staff to do their jobs without undue influence. They need to be working the Developer scene, getting someone with deep pockets excited about the project off Business 80 and Exposition Blvd.
General Management: B Geoff continues in his role as our very own Moneyball Maestro delivering us talent via the draft consistently despite our Five Stages of a Geoff Petrie Draft reaction that typically ends with contentment or his trade machine that leaves us half the time scratching our heads with HOW did he do that and WHY did he do that? In my mind, if he would have drafted Rubio and traded him for Tyreke + something else or was able to trade Kevin Martin and one of our young bigs for a legit center then I would have given him a glowing A.
Coaching: B- I am impressed with Westphal's polish in front of the media and on the sideline. He remains composed even when the team doesn't execute. He seems to have the ear and confidence of the front office and the roster competes every night. His minutes and substiutions don't seem to always make sense but he does seem to have enough patience to let the guys work it out on the floor versus yanking them every time they make a mistake. I expected the assistant coaches to have a greater impact. Mario and Truck were brought in to improve our defensive which has made some progress going from 30th to 24th in overall defensive rating and from 29th to 25th in points allowed.
The staff needs to continue to improve the basketball IQ of the team, defensive positioning, rebounding, pick n roll, and movement away from the basketball.
PG/SG: B+ Tyreke deserves an A and will likely win ROY. He has played or defended up to 3 positions and typically is our only option when the game is on the line. Beno has played fairly consistently this year and seems to be fine with or without the ball in his hands. He is also providing more value than Mike Bibby (our former PG of note) this year in most statistical categories.
Since Tyreke has been playing along side Beno, we are thin at PG and I don't think Greene nor Garcia are real starting SGs in this league if Tyreke is playing the point. Ideally we either need another solid defender/distributor at point guard to support Tyreke when he plays the 2 and use Donte/Garcia has solid 6th men candidates at SG or we draft a future star SG and have Tyreke play PG assuming we have zero chance in hell landing Wall.
SF: C+ We have too many players that are just fillers at this position. It doesn't help that we have been spoiled at this position historically (Peja, Hedo, Gerald, Ron). I believe Omri can be a jack of all trades but he will never defend like Ron, Shoot like Peja, have the handles of Hedo and flat out score like Gerald. I think he can average 18 points and 5 rebounds a game, which is solid. But I don't see how he ever evolves to lock down the likes of Grainger, Durant, Pierce, Anthony or James. We get schooled by half the league at that position and Greene who has other versatility can score, Noce can defend, yet neither are solid enough to start at SF in this league on a playoff caliber team.
PF/C: C- I am not sure how many times (if ever) the Shawes Shock Redemption aka Jawes project has ever resulted in both having double doubles in the same game. It seems when one plays well the other is on the bench. I envisioned Hawes developing a Brad Miller/Vlade kind of game after a progressive year last season. He should be able to initiate the offensive, find the backside cutter (making yoda due flips in his courtside seats) and set solid picks in the pick n roll game while nailing the needed three that stretches the defense out. Instead he has developed a Brad/Vlade kind of game that complains about too many calls while getting pushed around on the low block.
Thompson also has stagnated with poorer shooting percentages, more fouls and only marginal improvements to points and rebound averages. He is still turnover prone and fumbles passes even when he is open on the low block. He is poor on the pick n roll and and can't make a jump shot to save his life. He shows promise on defense with the occasional block but sometimes just makes bad decisions.
Both guys would look a lot better if there was stud big to complement them. Together their combined flaws are just too exploitable by most of the League. I do like the additions of Brockman and Landry, but both of these guys should be coming off the bench dominating the other team's bench.
I would now like to shift the discussion on the two ways we sure up the roster's gaps.
Free Agent Market - Here are the projected Free Agents for your review. Here is the expected Cap Space for the teams vying to land a maximum contract free agent. The Kings likely are not primed to land a top tier free agent this Summer for three basic reasons: available cash, market size/appeal, and players involved. With under $17M in probably money to sign someone next season, they trail bigger market teams like DC, NY, NJ, Chicago, LA with more cash and/or not having an all star to go over the cap to re-sign like Dwayne, LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, etc.
I would look at the restricted Luis Scola, first and foremost for helping our post. He is young enough and certainly a multi-faceted player that won't command top 5 money but is possibly a solid next tier big that we could afford. If Yao were re-signed then Houston probably cannot afford to keep Scola.
After Luis, Kenyon Martin, Brendan Haywood, Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer as possible aging bigs that can help further push our developing bigs along for a couple of years. I don't see us nabbing Chris Bosh or Yao Ming as the marquee bigs.
For our other need areas, I think it is very doubtful the Kings would try to land either Kobe, Dwayne, Manu or Joe Johnson (Tyreke answers the bell). Also, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki or Paul Pierce as BPAs would not likely step down to join the Kings.
We may be able to land a SF like a Rudy Gay who might see Sacramento as a step up who gives unparalleled athleticism, a stronger defender/scorer complementing the better shooting and rebounding skills of Casspi.
Draft - Since we don't know what our draft position will be given the lottery system, I will assume for now that we draft 4th or 5th this year. I think that safely rules out the likes of John Wall. I think it is a crap shoot as to where DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors and Evan Turner fall. The first two potentially supplant either Thompson or Hawes with no real guarantee that they are ultimately better. Turner on the other hand could provide us a very versatile SF and unlike Donte can defend multiple positions with a higher basketball IQ and better defensive focus.
I hope the kings don't put too much stock in solving all their problems through the draft this season even though the model has worked somewhat for the Blazers. Everyone else in the league that has won a title in the last several years required a combination of free agents/trades and luck in the draft.
I think our best shot is to pick up a veteran big via a free agent signing and draft a SF that can compete right away for a starting spot.
I doubt it would happen, and assuming they picked up a big via free agency, perhaps the Kings could trade up by offering either Hawes or Thompson with Donte to land John Wall.
Then our Starting 5 might look like:
PG - John Wall/Beno Udrih
SG - Tyreke Evans/Francisco Garcia
SF - Omni Casspi/Andres Nocioni
PF - Luis Scola or Brendan Haywood or Carlos Boozer/Carl Landry
C - Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes/Jon Brockman
Curious to get the collective feedback from our knowledgeable STR contingency.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Draft Cousins or Favors if you can
If not sign Lee for $10 mil or less. I am actually backing off of that a little based on how well JT has played off the bench as our 3rd big. Or trade for Okafor if NO will take back Noce.
Rudy Gay is too expensive & was just as good as Donte or Omri in his 1st & 2nd years. Maybe he was better than Donte but he’s had consistent playing time since he was a rook.
No one is going to trade John Wall for a 5 or 6 pick & Donte, Omri, JT, Hawes or anyone else on our roster noy named Tyreke.
I love beating dead horses.
I like JT coming off the bench as well.
Donte is maybe more upside on offensive but the minutes are tough and he is getting minutes at multiple spots which I think have stunted his growth as well.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably don't see that either, he is a Center...
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Why you refer to Haywood as 'aging' puzzles me.
Scola is 3 or 4 years older than all the guys you mentioned except Kenyon Martin.
I also think the kids at the SF (Donte’/Casspi) are doing just fine considering their experience. No way would I spend any assets on a SF next year, I’d let that play out at least until the Feb deadline – and probably beyond.
Cross your fingers and hope to get lottery luck at least to the tune of the 3rd or 4th pick, if not, I might be all for dropping down the draft a bit.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
feedback...nice post...
For Ownership I set the bar low, and give them a B for ….resigning Petrie…
Petrie/Front Office gets an A….who had a better draft than Petrie this year? Who landed Landry one of the best bargains in the league, filling a need in the paint, and cutting loose a SG that wasn’t going to be part of this team’s future….
I’m fine with the other grades, I see why you combined SG and PG, but why combine PF and C? Using Landry and JT to pull up Spencer’s grade?
There’s no way the Kings get Wall unless they get 1st pick.
Aldrich and Cousins are a No!!! Favors should be the pick if available (very doubtful)….
Monroe seems like a Petrie pick….but I’m more interested in the two projects Davis and Whiteside….and Aminu?….no need…as long as Donte is here….
by getPGwithbounce on Mar 16, 2010 12:42 AM PDT reply actions
I think most of your points are right...
If the Kings leave down the road remember your B.
The draft went really for Petrie, an A for sure there, but I think Kevin with more time with Tyreke would have solicited a higher return on the market that could have netted us something better. Oversimplifying but KM > CL and not enough cap to land a tier I free agent are why I might have been too tough on his grade.
I should have separated out the PF/C grades. PW has been interchanging them seems like so I followed suit.
Not sure why you are against Cousins but agree with Aldrich.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
We do have enough cap room to offer a max contract
We’re one of 8 (I think) teams that will have enough room to offer a max contract. I’m not saying one of those guys will come here, but getting more cap space in a different Martin trade would not have done anything to help us sign one of the top Free Agents.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
GP supposedly does not like Monroe
(what? Don’t you scan every fanshot on a daily basis? :-)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I am not so sure I agree with all of this...
It is clear you thought this out, but I can pick out points that probably bear consideration.
Coaching: Westphal’s handling of the media and Spencer showed a serious lack of poise. He is too quick to show anger and a bit of a temper. I like him so don’t get me wrong, but his bungling of that was inexcusable. So no points for poise there, but I agree about yanking around players and think he should practice what he preaches. If the kids play well give them more minutes, not less.
Management: There are issues and most of them, for me, is around how they are dealing with public relations. I think it is inexcusable to allow Napear to go after Kings players like he has done, Martin being the latest example, and there are only a few reasons why they would allow it. Either they wanted him gone or they just can’t control that redheaded blowhard and either way. Both suck and show a complete lack of professionalism.
By position:
I agree that we are light at PG and SG. Losing both Sergio and Martin did that and Cisco is just not up to being the PG. He may work into it, but his passing just isn’t there.
I like how we are shaping up at SF. I think that Donte’ and Casspi fill out, or will, that position well enough. Add Noc for a stretch 4, even Donte’ at that, and we are good. I say we keep the depth here and worry about our bigs
As to PF and C, well it has improved. Landry is a big improvement and adds depth, but I don’t think we have it set yet. JT is rebounding and coming back. Last few games show lots of progress and I think he deserves credit for whatever those demons were that he beat off. Spencer is showing more consistency. The bigs at least deserve a better grade given the recent performances, but the final grade isn’t in yet.
I don’t see us signing a free agent of huge salary and would prefer to stay young and inexpensive for while so we can re-sign our kids to contracts, the ones who earn it anyway. I also don’t like most of the guys you list for free agency. I would prefer to keep the core young and youth movement strong. Who we get depends on the draft. Hopefully a big and if not then maybe we pick up a FA.
Our biggest need is a defensive minded Center and not any more PFs. If we don’t have another C by next season then GP get a big fat F.
Good points MBS...
Down in OC the Spencer/PW and Napear/KM didn’t really hit the national media as far as I witnessed. In fact only the stunt with PW chest pumping Hawes during the pre-game game and Kevin’s post trade interview made much hubub down in So Cal. I probably would be more irate if I was in Sac.
I think we are all guilty of being satisfied with our team’s offensive potential at the 3 spot but the +/- are consistently bad as we give the other teams too many points. Do you see the same defensive upside outside of Casspi?
I would love to upgrade Jawes (JT/Hawes) at the end of the season, but I still feel like they combine for a solid big and don’t really equate to two solid bigs the same time on the floor. Neither one has really become a solid consistent starter IMO.
Love your comment on a post defender, totally agree.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we shouldn't be satisfied
but there are only so many elite small forwards. There are a ton of good ones but they are too expensive & don’t do that much more as a Donte/Omri/Noce team. They all are a little different & you can rotate them around based on match ups until one of them seperates themselves with their good, consistent play. Carmelo, Lebron, & Paul Pierce are the best sf’s in the league. Unless 1 of them is coming here I don’t want to pay a Rudy Gay or Luol Deng $13 million dollars.
I might do a sign & trade with Memphis for Gay if it goes like this:
Gay($10 mil extension) & Thabeet for Nocioni/Donte/& JT or Spencer
Gay would be an pretty big upgrade now & I wouldn’t mind paying him if I didn’t have to pay Noce. Donte would be unnecessary with Gay & Omri. He would give Memphis another young sf prospect to grow with a young team. Noce can start for them & they wanted him before. They might feel 2 years of Noce & a cheap few years of Donte is better than 5 or 6 years of of a high priced Gay. Spencer or JT would give them a good young(& cheap) PF to play next to Gasol when Z-Bo eventially leaves. Thabeet would give us our young, rebounding, shotblocking center to play next to Landry & JT or Spence. Thabeet is a project but so would any other big we get from the draft not named Cousins.
I love beating dead horses.
Gay willl be available if we want him
I read just the other day that when Memphis ownership was asked if they’d resign him he commented that he can’t sell any tickets to pay more players….More likely one of the other teams that cleared all that cap space (NY etc) will overpay him.
I do think we stick at SF and let the kids develop another year. I also think the Kings will at least try to trade JT or Hawes for an upgrade inside or an improved draft position if necessary.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
correction
might try to trade – not at least
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Changes are coming.
Well I would say that Casspi and Greene are going to be able to provide really good D at SF. Donte’ has the potential to be an amazing defensive player. Casspi has the right intensity, focus, and competitive drive so that might work as well. We will see, but I think we have no worries at SF. We are set to go and in two years these guys will be terrific.
We currently lack depth at PG and SG as well as at C. I can’t see anything happening at SF as we have so many it is just stupid. The issue is that we have big guys who don’t play big very well.
Hawes doesn’t seem to be the low post defensive banger who will make you pay for any attempt at the rim and seems to be a big SF more than a C. Not to say he isn’t learning some and taking it on.
JT has the rebounding and has shown some promising development. He very well could be more of a C given the right coaching. Time will tell.
Then there is Brockman, May, Dorsey… I expect to see a lot of changes this summer.
I gave some thought to what I posted and I actually would not mind picking up Haywood.
I honestly don't see Haywood coming here on the cheap
Dallas is playing really well & if they go deep Cuban will pay him. The only way he would leave a situation like Dallas is if we back up the Brinks truck for him. Not happening.
I love beating dead horses.
That's going to be an interesting situation
That’s why I was hoping the Kings would go after Haywood and Jamison at the trade deadline. But, Dallas is already over the Luxury Tax even without Haywood. And since he’s an UFA he can go anywhere. So, is he in it for the money or to win a ring?
He made $6M this year, and is at the end of his prime, but putting up top 5-10 numbers for a center. If the Kings offered his a 3 year $30M contract with a team option in the last year, it would cost Dallas $20M a year to resign him including the Luxury Tax penalty. I’m not sure even Cuban would pay that much.
But, it will be interesting.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Cuban might not match that but
that would definitely be considered backing up the Brinks truck. One of my concerns with that would be, besides injury is if he comes here for the money at the age of 31 would he be motivated to play to his full capabilities on a struggling team? I don’t know his character but that might just be a case of human nature to not be motivated.
I love beating dead horses.
No Brinks trucks
We have several years worth of drafting young players before we are going to start being competitive. I mean we have to balance that with the need to win and get fans in the seat to support a new arena, but even still considering all of that there is no point giving out phat contracts right now.
I agree with the "now" part
but I could see us making a big move by next years trade deadline if we are hovering around .500. GP & the Maloofs don’t like losing. They are fine with it now only because it is necessary. With another high pick I could see us being pretty decent next year. There would be no point in waiting for a 10-15 draft pick to “save” us after next year if we are a team close to the eighth spot aroud the trade deadline.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really don't care how old he is
he’s 5th in rebs among centers, he’s 4th in blocks and is .3 pts per game below averaging a double double. If it would take half of our cap space to get him, you do it. Although I imagine more than one team would be willing to put up that type of money. So, would Tyreke be enough of a draw? Or, would he rather go to a team with a chance for a ring?
No one we have or will draft, will be ready to take the starting job away from him in 2 years, and he’d still be one of the best backups in 3 years. That type of player, doesn’t back off when his team is winning. We’re not talking Brad Miller here.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yeah, I'm intrigued by Haywood too
I don’t see where we would better spend our money this year, though maybe it would turn out better to simply sit on our money this year and make our move after next season (after throwing the house at Bosh, of course).
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
In that case HT
I think he would come here if we gave him a big enough contract because his last contract wasn’t exactly a large one by NBA standards. So taking the money would be a good decision for him & for his family. We can always draft a center & trade him to a contender in a few years to give him his chance at a ring. Haywood & Landry could make us a .500 team next year although him & Jamison could not help the Wiz so who knows?
I love beating dead horses.
I was going to pick a line - but here's rec'ing the whole damn thing
but I could see us making a big move by next years trade deadline if we are hovering around .500. GP & the Maloofs don’t like losing. They are fine with it now only because it is necessary. With another high pick I could see us being pretty decent next year. There would be no point in waiting for a 10-15 draft pick to "save" us after next year if we are a team close to the eighth spot aroud the trade deadline.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Here is your second then
I agree about the next trade deadline. It is all about timing and the time just is not right yet. When we are more competitive then, yeah, I could see it.
HT, Dallas will most likely give Haywood a 4/5 year deal.
They will cut Dampier if they can’t use him in a trade. They will need a center, and can offer him more than the MLE because they got his bird rights. The Kings are in a disadvantage there, also with high taxes, small market, and age would deter him signing anything that isn’t 3-4 years?
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
I hope by inexpensive you mean cheap, real cheap. Udoka/May cheap.
If you are going to sign someone for $5+ million you might as well go for a high dollar player. I’d rather have 1 high dollar player than 2 or 3 more decent roll players. We already have a team full of those
I love beating dead horses.
Yep, for at least a couple more years. Cheap works
I can’t see signing a big FA given our current trajectory. We are likely to be where OKC is in a couple years. At that point the right FA might gives us a boost, but until then young with upside should be what we go with. And it is cheap.
OC I cant type out a full comment now although I appreciate the time and effort put in.
1 thing is that Omri avgs 4.8 boards in just under 27 mins. And Donte has shown plenty that I think more time should be invested before giving up on him.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
by pookeyguru on Mar 16, 2010 1:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
NP Pokey, get me later.
Do you see Omri garnering 40 minutes in a year or two? If so then maybe with a couple more 3s and a few more rebounds he could be a 20 pt 7 rebound guy which would be better probably then Peja given Omri’s tough streak. I see his potential but I wonder if he is more of a top 20 SF in the league versus a top 10. Maybe my goal is too high for that spot. I just miss Wallace and Hedo (though not their current salaries).
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Did wallace ever really play here?
and was he any good when he did?
A 17 and 7 SF is someone who gets talked about for the All-Star game…. It seems clear to me that Casspi can ge there offensively IF he can get stronger, always a question with Euros. Donte’, -—- Donte’ could be very good, maybe better than Casspi. Maybe, though I think Casspi has a chance to be more dynamic, more dangerous.
No, I leave well enough alone at that spot for now.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, the talk of Wallace as a great Kings SF is confusing me also
and I agree with you that having a developing Donté/Omri combo at the SF is more than fine for now (my money is on Donté eventually being the better overall player and the full-time starter, which would’ve seemed crazy at the beginning of the year).
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Wallace had the upside then and is amazing now. We lossed him in the expansion.
Peja and Ron were top 15 level talents Wallace is one now. I am posing the argument that we are getting killed by the leagues 3s right now even though we are getting good value for our dollar at the 3 spot. I would like us be able to shut down 1/2 the leagues 3s on any given night and wonder if either Donte or Casspi grow into that role versus us picking up someone that is a top 12 player in the league at the 3.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He was popular, energetic young scrub towards the end of the bench
We’ve filled in the mystique since.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
3 years as a King, 138 games, started 9 games, played about an average of 10 mpg, and averaged 3-4 pts a game
Right, we didn't have the minutes for him then as he was young and he was playing behind our stud 3s at the time.
But my point was he was a arguably he has proved to be a great player that Petrie drafted and potentially better than either Casspi or Donte even though I like both of those guys on our team.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
my response made no sense...let me restate.
I was not suggesting Wallace was a great King, I just really like his athleticism when he first came here. There was no spot for him really at the time. But I would classify him as a top 15 SF in the league. Neither Donte nor Casspi are that. Perhaps one of them can become that…maybe time will tell.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Upside
I think Donte’ is closer to Wallace athletically in terms of upside. He is probably going to be just about as good as Wallace if he keeps his focus and stays committed to learning from the coaching staff. That remains to be seen, but watching him defend has been pretty good to watch.
I think that Casspi has a very similar amount of upside, but different… Not sure how to describe it. I guess less athletic, but probably more astute. He may develop faster than Donte’ in terms of all around game, but may not peak as high in certain areas.
I like our guys moving forward.
Time will definitely tell.
Donte' Casspi
If we could only merge Donte and Omri into one player.’Greene’s skills and athleticism with Casspi’s grit, focus and determination. We need a genetical engineer.
Great post, by the way.
Dunking Dutchman
Completey agree..
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 18, 2010 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Would it come with a demanding Diva wife?
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 18, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Rudy Gay
I really think Gay would be an excellent pick-up for the Kings.. He has averaged 20 ppg twice in his career and he is only 23. He is not ball dominant at all which would be ideal next to Tyreke.. And after that draft a power forward or center we could build upon, then i think we would be 1 of the best young teams in the league…
I really love Gay (here comes the jokes) as well.
He would command a double team by an opposing big and that would help our bigs as well.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 8:08 AM PDT reply actions
I'm really trying to be mature but this brought the kid out of me
I really love Gay He would command a double team by an opposing big
I love beating dead horses.
You've gotta pay extra for players that get double teamed.
Oh yeah. Giggle. Anyways. I don’t see Petrie signing any big free agents this summer. The maloofs are broke baby.
This is just nitpicking
but the Cal-Expo plan is no longer the front runner. The Sacramento Convergence plan (with a new arena downtown at the railyards) is the leading arena plan at the moment. With a foreign investment group (from australia I believe) and the support of the NBA.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Mar 16, 2010 9:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I stopped reading the post when I saw the stuff about the Expo plan and scanned the comments to make sure this got brought up
OC, it’s not surprising that you missed that info since you’re not a local, but there’s been a huge change over the past few months on the arena front. Mayor Johnson is kicking ass and taking names (in my opinion) and it’s looking like we’re moving forward on a plan that, while complicated, gives us good reason for hope. The financing is there. No news taxes or tax changes. No public vote. Arena at the railyards, new Cal Expo in Natomas, residential and retail at the current Expo site, jobs galore both short-term and long-term. There are a lot of moving parts and individuals that still need to be brought on-board, but there seems to be a lot of positive momentum right now, and no reason to not be optimistic until something shows up to slow that momentum.
I would suggest doing some research over at the Bee and other places, here’s a link to get you started.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
One of the many things I noticed that were a bit inaccurate or I disagreed with. But with so many opinions there was bound to be that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Yes, inaccurate is a the best way to put it and basing opinions on limited or inaccurate information is always a problem..
I actually googled this before submitting it and it still pulled up the other report from Feb.
I googled just now and saw the new plan reports dated 3/14. Damn family is not keeping me in the loop on the local scoop. Sorry for not representing a completely accurate assessment but does it really change the Ownership Grade in everyone’s opinion.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
OC another way you could do it
There are sections of StR labeled “Numbers” “Commentary” and one of the sections is called Arena. That’s where pretty much any related Kings arena news will be.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
nice get...
Will check it out…
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I would grade ownership higher than you did
but I probably have more muted expectations of them than a lot of people do. The question is though, does your Ownership Grade change based on the updated arena information, considering your grade seems to rely heavily on this aspect of their job?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
back at me I see, touche!
Having watched how LA did it, and how the Chargers cannot get it done in San Diego, I chalk it up to the ownership’s commitment to making a deal happen. I am still skeptical that this new project gets done and what value The Maloofs provide if it does get done. Give Major Johnson an A for effort but is the new progress a result of the Maloofs stepping up? I really don’t know.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
They've been staying in the backround for now
As well they should. The political will has to build from the City. You see what happened when very rich guys asked for it on their own.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I think your grade should have been higher for ownership...
The Maloofs have worked very hard to promote their team this season, with a lot of creative ways to get more fans to the games.
As for the Arena, I think it is more in Major Johnson’s court to work on the arena, than it is for the Maloofs. Fortunately, the Major has stepped up to the task. The arena brings a lot to the community, besides the basketball. It sounds like the funding may involve grants, which will also be a benefit to the community. We are fortunate in having attracted an NBA basketball team.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I feel you on this, many have agreed with you.
I did a post several months back on the how each franchise ranked amongst the 4 major sports and without looking The Kings ranked 117 or fourth from the bottom. Conversely 6 seasons ago they were in the top 10.
A big part of those rankings came down to fan experience, customer service, overall value, and how committed to winning the ownership was. If you search on my posts you will find the whole article and the links to the ESPN report.
I think the Maloofs have marketed the product well this season. But as a season ticket holder to the Chargers and shared season ticket holder to the Angels, and having regularly gone to Padres, Dogers, Ducks, LA Kings, Clippers and Laker Games, I can tell you that there is a lot of things the Maloofs can do to make this team and going to the game better.
For example, Arte Moreno, the owner of the Angels, he revamped all the vendors at the Angels games and has two full service restaurants inside the stadium. The food and drink options are just superior and at the same prices that Arco charges for their grab n go options.
The Angels have promotions and give aways almost every game and the Kids Zone, Friday Night Fireworks and Sunday Kid’s days makes taking the kids to the game a no brainer.
I agree with you that our Mayor has really stepped up and taken the Arena issue as his personal goal to remedy. I am optimistic that KJ will help us get a deal done. We can debate who’s job is it, the Mayor or the Owners of the Franchise but KJ is committed for sure.
Without KJ, I don’t know that the Kings would realistically remain in Sacramento based solely on the effort of the Maloofs. Owners like Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, and others find away to keep their teams in great venues with a competitive product year after year.
It feels like the Maloofs stopped investing in the product a few years ago, and based on the moves that have been made, it appears dumping salaries and saving money are essential for the organization right now.
This is a long rant, and I am not trying to sell you that the grade couldn’t be higher, but I do think they are doing an average job given what I have experienced with some other pro teams that I care about.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 17, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I appreciate your response.
I am not a season ticket holder, nor do I go to other sports events. I don’t have the perspective that you do, as a shared ticket holder to other sporting events.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Its all good...
I thought the Kings experience was incredible given what I grew up with watching the A’s Giants and 49ers.
But once I saw how awesome some of the other franchises were and I try to hit a new venue across the country each season, you get spoiled.
When the Kings built the practice facility that was a big deal. Then other franchises started doing the same. Every franchise has to continue to reinvent itself or die. It is time for the Kings to do it again.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 18, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorrry for the inaccuracies. After so much time on these things I could have used an editor.
It has been hard to keep up on everything as I am still trying to open a restaurant, work my day job and blah blah blah.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
What kind of Kings fan puts their career and "real life" ahead of blogging about their team?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 16, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
lol. And today is my Birthday...I should be out drinking somewhere before the L&*ers Kings Game...
Priorities.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Happy Birthday Sac<3OCHouse
Hope you enjoyed the game. Lots to digust in the post, I look forward to reading the comments later. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
by betweentheeyes on Mar 16, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks dude...
TTYL
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 17, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
We can improve in all areas
Tyreke is probably the closest thing we have to locking up a position, followed by Landry. All the other positions could use upgrading, and you could also argue that we could do better than Tyreke and Landry as well.
Scola would be a good fit and probably moves us up to .500 ball. I’m not sure that’s where we want to be, though.
I think Petrie will draft Monroe and continue playing Moneyball in stockpiling cheap yet productive talent until the time is right to make a splashier move. If he could move Beno or Garcia and get a second pick in the 10-15 range to take a scoring guard, I think he will strongly consider that.
I also wouldn’t give up on the SFs just yet. Omri and Donte are just pups yet and could have a lot more upside than some here envision.
Good, thought-provoking post and timely with the tournament at hand.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Why Monroe?
GP doesn’t seem to like him and neither do I.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Monroe fits a need
He may not be at the top of the big man class, but he’s not far behind and he’s only a sophomore.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Hmmmm
The ’doesn’t always play hard’ view of him makes me think its unlikely we go after him under our current stategy. I’d rather have one of the defenders and damn the offense for now. If we could get a whole package guy (Favors, Cousins [yes, him]) that would be ideal.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
If we are in the top 4 and Cousins is available
Sure, take him. But I think we are going to win a few games to close the season and will end up drafting a little lower.
Favors is probably going to be one and done in the tourney, and he’s still pretty much of a potential guy at this point, so he might drop to us as well. Doubtful, but possible.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Where is it said
that GP doesn’t like Monroe?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Mar 16, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
No team is going to trade us a mid-first round pick for Beno & Garcia
20-30 maybe but that would be stupid for both teams. Why would a team trade a younger, way cheaper Cisco or Beno for a high priced Cisco or Beno.
Also why would we trade experienced young vets that fit this team very well for a young late 1st rounder that might end up being another Quincy Douby.
Right now I’m really liking Beno & Cisco. They are playing just how Petrie thought they would when he gave them those contracts. I understand the need to dump salary but these guys are filling a void right now. Now if you draft an Evan Turner then we can talk about dumping Beno or Cisco. Dumping salary means nothing to me right now when we already have around $15 million in cap space we might not even use.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Mar 16, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ownership: C The Maloofs are financially leveraged to the hilt, lacking the wealth, portfolio and network to control the Kings’ destiny without outside intervention. We don’t know if the Kings will remain in Sacramento since all our hope seem to be tied to the Cal Expo Project propagated by the NBA that requires TBD developers, tax changes and time.
Nah, it’s the “Convergence” now, and that includes the Railyards instead of Cal Expo.
As far as their financial leverage, a lot of that depends on how much the Palms is decreasing their overall wealth. The Kings are fine financially in many ways though. I’m more worried about a potential sale than anything else. Until a new Arena plan is created, then paid for, and then built, a potential move will always be on the horizon.
General Management: B Geoff continues in his role as our very own Moneyball Maestro delivering us talent via the draft consistently despite our Five Stages of a Geoff Petrie Draft reaction that typically ends with contentment or his trade machine that leaves us half the time scratching our heads with HOW did he do that and WHY did he do that? In my mind, if he would have drafted Rubio and traded him for Tyreke + something else or was able to trade Kevin Martin and one of our young bigs for a legit center then I would have given him a glowing A.
Moneyball? Eh no. Other than the “Moneyball” theory in basketball being complete and utter bullshit, one difference between Billy Beane and Geoff Petrie is that Petrie has had a much higher success rate with prospects than Beane has. Even then, that’s only a minor argument at best given that MLB & NBA have a great deal of differences dealing with young players that it makes it almost no point to make comparisons between either team.
As far as actual moves go, I don’t have a single problem with any of the moves Petrie has made in hindsight. I think he did the best he could given his circumstances, and that’s all you can really ask. Also, you could include that Petrie hasn’t hurt the team financially despite taking deals (and ultimately losing out on an opportunity to pick DeJuan Blair—which doesn’t bother me but probably irritates some out there) like the Sergio Rodriguez deal that included a lot (2.9 mill to be exact—thanks Sam!) of cash in it?
Grading Petrie is something I don’t do naively or without full view of how he does things, but I have to give him an A all told. He’s started something, and it will take luck to finish this whole rebuild. But I believe he can finish it.
I expected the assistant coaches to have a greater impact. Mario and Truck were brought in to improve our defensive which has made some progress going from 30th to 24th in overall defensive rating and from 29th to 25th in points allowed.
They have had an impact. The Kings went from 30th to 24th with a younger team, which usually does not see teams improve defensively, and with a new coaching staff, which takes time to figure out how to ultimately use all the guys to the best of their abilities, all the while dealing with the inconsistency that often comes with a young roster. That isn’t Mario Elie’s and Truck Robinson’s fault. They’re starting something. Whether they’re around to finish I don’t know, but the whole staff has earned the benefit of the doubt. This year has been excellent in terms of competitiveness and what not.
Good point regarding Bibby vs Udrih. Given that people squawk about what Beno’s paid, some of yall might be disappointed about what Bibby is now making with Atl. I do disagree with Garcia not being a real SG. His ballhandling, shooting, energy and leadership are all positives that the Kings considered when they traded Kevin Martin. The fit with Cisco and Reke offers to have much greater potential than Kevin/Reke if only because of what Cisco/Reke do as a tandem as opposed to what Kevin/Reke did as a tandem.
We have issues in the middle. I wouldn’t have been advocating selecting Derrick Favors in the draft (if we can) for the last 7 months if the Kings didn’t have those issues.
As far as Free Agency goes, I’m almost as interested in the Kings using their cap space to trade for Troy Murphy using their cap space and Jason Thompson to do it. I think that would help the Kings immensely, and the worst that can happen is Murphy doesn’t help the Kings and they let his contract expire at the end of the season in 2011 anyway.
I don’t ever worry about projecting the starting 5 until training camp. Doing so in March when we don’t even know the lottery order seems hasty to me.
The details were a bit off in a few areas. Not a problem though. I do appreciate the effort that went into getting all this information down. It’s not nearly as easy as it looks.
Rec’d OC.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Great feedback as always and agree a couple things could have been stated differently or more accurately.
I vehemently agree with you that it is not fair from our purview to really assess Petrie and I love the guy in so many ways. Flat out he could have walked and taken another job in the NBA for double the money so he is a real gentlemen in this league with sick intellect beyond our arm chair quarterback’s capacity.
It is my understanding from investing in MGM and LVS stock that the Palms is really struggling financially. With the new City Center, and the Planet Hollywood Towers, there is a lot of pull away from the Palms right now and given they had to sell off their Beer Distributorship and are trying to repay their loans on the existing Palms enhancements they are a best likely to remain frugal with their funds as it relates to the Kings. While I agree with you that the Kings are financially stable for now, I would like to see them continue to try and rally development monies into the area to get the arena done.
It seems from here (not in Sac obviously) that the Maloofs are a little bit on the sidelines without the network of influence to pull on. Conversely, Downtown LA had a much more cohesive and comprehensive Civic, Develop, Business and Sports Ownership Group to drive the project through completion.
I didn’t mean to create a debate or assimilate baseball business to basketball business, but merely metaphorically label Petrie as extremely adept at find the Kings talent for less by (potentially) unique analytic measures. In other words the ESPN and NBA pundits say zig and he has a system that tells him to zag and it works.
I am probably being too tough on the staff regarding defense and I agree with you the team is very competitive now, so given their injuries and youth, I should not expect more that the progress thus far.
Glad you see my point on Bibby without me having to spell out the stats for everyone, but Bibby earns more and statistically is providing less value to ATL that Beno is for the Kings. Too some Bibby is still overpaid, but I am happy with what we are getting out of him this year.
I should clarify that I see Garcia as a very good back up 2/3 not as a starting SG. What I see is Tyreke who is still a kid already a better defender/scorer and distributor than a 28 year old Garcia. Garcia will block more shots and make more 3s but Tyreke is already shooting at a better percentage than Garcia’s NBA average and is clearly a better rebounder.
If the Kings are facing Arenas, Wade, Bryant, etc., I don’t see Garcia being able to defend as well as Tyreke. With that said because of the versatility of both Cisco and Tyreke, they do play well together on the floor.
I like Troy Murphy as well although the Cavs among others maybe willing to pay more that us for his rights.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
As far as Troy Murphy, unless the Cavs want Murphy AND Jamison, he makes a lot less sense to them
As far as Bibby, you and I have long agreed that Bibby’s time has long came & went. I’m still thankful the Kings got what they did for the Bibbilicious one.
As far as the beer distributorship, I’m not really sure as to why they would sell a business making money, especially cash money, when they have debts to pay on the Palms. I kinda believe them that they sold the distributorship simply because they felt it was the right time and they got a good deal.
As far as the Palms, I’ve never been to Vegas (and don’t have any plans to go unless it’s for VSL) and have no interest in it. Whatever goes on with that, I assume it will always be easy to assume the Palms has some effect in their ownership of the Kings. Quite honestly, though, I don’t think it has. Not yet. Until it does, I will be among the first to say so.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Here is the Palms effect
Had the Palms repayment structure not been an issue they would not have sold their cash cow. Those proceeds bought them time, and assuming the economy turns around in time they will self correct. But Vegas waits for no one and they are no longer the cool trendy place off the strip (like Arco II) and if it comes down to it, if the Kings don’t start making them money, they may have to sell the Kings to continue to enhance their property to keep up with the Jones in Vegas.
The Kings are still the tail and the Hotel is the dog.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Well OC why sell their cash cow if it's making them money?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Net Cash from the Beer Distirbutorship paid the overhead to the Casino
$600M borrowed to buildout the Casino requires a lot of cash flow from the Casino to repay each month during the good times. They were losing money big time and the net income from the Beer Distributorship was not enough to pay their bills and they couldn’t get other loans to cover their growing debt, they were forced to sell the BD to free up a few hundred million to catch them up on their debt and pay down on their Casino Loans.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm. I can see that, but I doubt that's the case.
We’ll see though.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Here is the article that speaks to it...there are others...
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure why the link is not posting...
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Gracias senor
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ding ding ding
Give that man a prize. Exactly correct.
The Kings are still the tail and the Hotel is the dog.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Thanks NewEra
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice... Can't believe I read it as fast as that. Good writing
Except for giving Management an “A” grade I would agree with most of it. The reason for giving management lower is still all about how they manage or don’t manage their personnel. I blame management for inflicting Napear on us. No way can I give them an A.
LOL MBS @ blaming management for Peaches
Yeah, I actually kinda agree with you there.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
1140 should have pulled Peaches plug so long ago. The incestual tidepool between Management and the Station reeks!
When you have Gary and Jerry, it is a shame that it is spoiled by Peaches and then he gets to blah blah each afternoon on top of that.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually find that funny.
It’s basically the grownups talking and the loudmouth kid trying to crash the party.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Kings MO
I understand the need to dump salary
Until proven different, that’s all you need to understand. Any chance we have to get cheaper and not sacrifice much in talent, Petrie will jump at the chance.
A lot of veteran teams already in the championship or solid playoff hunt will be happy to bank on a known commodity rather than the crapshoot that is the draft. We’re at the other end of the spectrum, looking to get cheaper and younger.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
That was meant as a reply to Allbenji's
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Then why give Udrih & Garcia those contracts in the first place?
The team was bad/on the downslide/freefalling when those contracts were handed out. You can’t tell me GP thought Garcia was going to turn into Kobe & Udrih would turn into CP3. They are doing now exactly what should have been expected of them. That said who knows? This FO has suprised me many times.
I love beating dead horses.
They weren't freefalling
They were in the 30-win era before the 17-win season. Petrie thought he could rebuild on the run. That turned out to be wrong, so he decided to blow things up.
I’m not saying those guys aren’t OK, but the team is in rebuilding mode and those contracts aren’t appropriate for essentially sixth man/fringe starter status on a 25-win ballclub. So if they can be moved, they will be.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
We were pretty damn terrible when Udrih was signed & Garcia was extended
Neither one of those guys were going to make us any better so I disagree.
I love beating dead horses.
Nice write up, but there is a missing ingredient
The ability for the Kings to pillage a salary-burdened team that is looking to unload salary. This is how the Clips landed Camby for a 2nd round pick, this is how Seattle landed Kurt Thomas and 1st round picks for a 2nd round pick.
The KIngs may have a better shot at filling a need via this route than the free agent market.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'd agree and would think there was a good chance of that
If 8 teams hadn’t opened up so much cap room.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 16, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
But don't you think
that some of those 8 teams will suck up free agents? I mean, I guess it comes down to tallying up the teams with cap room, the free agent crop, and the number of teams with salary issues. Unfortunately, I’m far too lazy to do the math.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Donte not versatile?????
was feeling your assessment of need until you hit on the sf spot and stated that Evan Turner “on the other hand could provide us a very versatile SF and unlike Donte can defend multiple positions with a higher basketball IQ and better defensive focus.”?? now from what i have seen, E.T. is big time baller and I am not knockin his addition to the kings, BUT donte has been developing into a great defender who regularly has been put on the other team’s best offensive threat. and as for versatility, he has started from the 4 all the way to 2 spot. that is pretty versatile. I think we are pretty solid at the 3 and the 2 spots. we can use some help at the 5 maybe the 4 (but landry and jt are holding in down pretty tough)
I did like, however the idea of Scola…seems like a Petrie kind of guy and fills a need.
I like Donte (and Casspi)
I think we have done somewhat of a disservice to him putting him in 3 roles throughout the year as he is good at 3 but I am wondering can he become a top 15 SF in the league? I see Donte being effective guarding some of the 2s and the backup 3s so far but I guess I want to see more time for him where he is guarding the top 3s in the league.
At just under 9 points, 3.1 rebounds and 21.3 minutes of action he seems still to be a little week on the rebounding for a SF and although he has been better with judgement of late, his earlier tendencies were to jack up the ball versus really take shots in rhythm.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
But to clarify he is very versatile on offense because of his instincts, quickness and scoring ability...
I like Evan Turner’s defensive versatility better.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 16, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the heart of the problem with the team this year is conditioning.
Martin even talked about it when he got to Houston. Casspi, Tyreke, and to some extent JT have had lapses later in the season. And, the Kings have had a problem finishing games all season. You can’t blame the assistant coaching staff for that.
Spencer’s been a double digit scorer all season, and since the big to do with Westphal his rebounding numers have jumped. He’s grabbed eight or more rebounds in five of the last
seven games (averaging 7.3 rpg in last seven games). Coincidentally (wink,wink), PW has started the same starters and had a more consistent rotation, which is what May, Evans, and Hawes had been complaining about in the first place. And, Donte has been the one most affected by the inconsistent playing time.
I’m Happy PW, is willing to listen to his players and willing to change. It gives me hope that he’ll be able to stay around, and maybe past next season. Donte getting extended minutes at the SF and PF, and minimal minutes at SG, can only help his development. I see him developing into the kind of player that Pippen was on the Bulls. Omri is the next Cisco for at least a couple of year, because I don’t think he’ll be as good of a shooter as most do, because of his poor form.
JT never develped true center skills at Rider, and mostly relied on his size advantage in a less than skilled league. That’s why right now he’s closer to a PF than a Center. And, right now, JT and Spencer’s stats averaged to 40 minutes, haven’t changed since their rookie seasons. JT will develop more low post skills, and Spencer will get stronger and won’t get any shorter, so I expect both will have value over the years. Who develops more or has a better career, will continue to be a source of disagreement here and elsewhere for years to come. IMHO, their individual development so far speaks more to the coaching they’ve had than their own effort or talent.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Mar 16, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i couldn't agree more with the conditioning problems
It’s pretty clear that the Kings are consistently more winded in games and it has lead to some pretty bad stretches on the court.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Mar 17, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I never paid attention to the conditioning before...
I think you bring up a great point. With that said, conditioning is vetted in two ways:
1) Proper rotations – If our team is firing on all fronts then everyone gets time on the floor. When part of our team is not producing the burden shifts to the few that are getting it done. All teams including the Lakers suffer from this and subsequently that is what makes Kobe and Lebron so awesome is they suck it up and put the team on their back and overcompensate for their teammates lack of performance. In looking back at our results, I agree that our starting five sans Tyreke have failed to deliver the goods consistently in crunch time—a function of youth but to your point because of fatigue. This is certainly not the fault of the coaches.
2) Practice – I quit playing basketball after my freshman year in HS because the JV coach required the whole team to run for an hour without the basketball up and down the stairs in the gym before every practice. His goal was to make us the best conditioned team on the floor on any given night. An argument can be made that conditioning is enforced by the coaches. New Orleans’ Players tired of how much conditioning Byron Scott insisted on at that contributed to his fallout with the players. So I do disagree that 1/2 of our conditioning problem cannot be linked to how the coaches run practice.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 18, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
There's a limit to what coaches can do during the season.
When Casspi asked to sit because he hit the rookie wall, JR mentioned in one of the telecasts that one way to rest him was in practices instead of games. Once the season starts the games come so quickly and so close together, that you can’t try and improve conditioning in practice without effecting the next days game.
Summer and preseason are the times to work on conditioning. That’s what Tyreke is doing with his plans for the summer. I think you can maintain your conditioning through the season, but it’s very hard to build up your conditioning while your playing a heavy schedule, traveling and practicing.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
sactownheartOChouse
Great write up by the way. I think you are pretty much spot on.
Also, In a related matter I think those of us that are LA based King’s fans should get together for a game sometime or head to staples when the King’s play the Clips or something. Like our StR night in LA or something like that.
:)
Just a thought.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Mar 16, 2010 11:10 PM PDT reply actions
You guys should really do that
I bet you can get a good group of 10-15 to go.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I think so...
And we would not feel so much on an island as Kings fans in LA.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Mar 16, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I am planing on going to the game on April 13th...
If you guys want to meet up anywhere like the ESPN Zone or Yardhouse across the street, I will buy the first round!
I will put out a fan shot,
OC
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 17, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Good call I was about to do that!
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Mar 17, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I just posted the Fan Shot a little bit ago...
Who else is done here in So Cal that we can rally?
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
The tidbits I do not agree with
are adding an aging veteran STARTER to the frontcourt. Someone like an Ime or Noc in the center slot a fringe starter for a playoff team someone that the kid’s can beat out would be great.
I would be all for Scola (grit, hustle, good ballplayer) except that he is 29 and will be 30 in April and while he does play above average defense and boards pretty well he is not the answer. Internal growth and patience are in my opinion the best course of action while adding a Udonis Haslem type (that is someone with playoff experience who can play in spot minutes in the frontcourt and help teach our younger players).
I understand the need to upgrade our frontcourt talent and while I do not believe that Hawes and Thompson are for SURE the answer they do show signs of being extremely capable frontcourt players. Let em grow and develop and add through the draft and lower end free agents.
Other than that Great write up Rec’d.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Mar 16, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions

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