Size Matters: Lakers 106, Kings 99
by Tom Ziller on Mar 17, 2010 7:08 AM PDT
in Recaps
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PrintThe Lakers didn't have many blocks in their win over the Kings. In fact, Spencer Hawes alone had as many blocks (five) as the entire L.A. roster. But size does more than block shots.
Size helped L.A.'s starting frontline, Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, go 21-28 from the floor. Hawes is tall (see: five blocks), but Bynum clearly outsizes him, and it showed. Bynum owned the paint just about every second he was on the floor. Gasol is tall, too, and more like Hawes in terms of size. But Gasol uses his height so, so well, getting easy shots off over the top of his defenders, and keeping the ball away from the scrum in deep.
Size helped L.A. grab a big share of offensive rebounds (14 in 46 opportunities, 30 percent). Bynum had five of those, but Ron Artest -- one of the most muscular small forwards in the league -- had three, as did Kobe Bryant, one of the strongest guards you'll see. Those offensive rebounds were about muscles, about strength, about power. The Kings have made strides to be more tough and less defined by finesse, sure. But teams like the Lakers can still outmuscle this team.
One King highly unlikely to be outmuscled is Tyreke Evans, who managed 11 rebounds and 14 free throws. The problem Evans had, though, on offense was that because he plays below the rim, he has a bit more trouble finishing than he ought to. Really, several misses at the rim were pretty open -- but a stray defensive hand entering the picture is more effective when the shooter is looking up the basket, as Evans usually is. This is an obviously small quibble -- Evans scored more efficiently than Bryant, and had 9 assists and one turnover to Bryant's 7/3. And this is Kobe Bryant we're comparing him to, while Reke was guarded largely by Artest while Kobe drew Donte Greene and Francisco Garcia. SMALL. QUIBBLE.
The larger quibbles can only really be focused on defensive rebounding and interior defense in general. I found it noteworthy that in his halftime interview assistant coach Mario Elie noted that the guards were responsible for a lot of the interior breakdown -- their man penetrated, drawing help from the bigs and leaving the Lakers bigs open for the pass reception or the offensive rebound. That's fair -- we've noted often how poor the Kings pick-and-roll defense has been from all angles, big and guard alike. But at the same time, there were available rebounds that Hawes and Carl Landry should be able to grab. Hawes's rebound line (three, in 23 minutes) looks worse than it was due to Evans's extreme output. But again, he should have had at least a couple more. But he's not a great defensive rebounder, and them's the breaks.
***
By the way, according to Grant Napear, Tyreke is only 10 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists away from his second career triple-double.
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Yeah - I've never known what that means
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
TWSS
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Youre not that old lttg
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
On a serious note
Good points TZ. LA Fakers are a really hard team to match up against height wise and we lost the battle of bigs, which hasn’t been such an issue since we got Landry.
Putting in JT and pulling Spencer helped some in that he is both stronger and can’t get so easily out-muscled by Bynum and he rebounds better.
Definitely highlighted our lack of depth at C.
Where was Dorsey?
Wouldn’t his size have helped?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Let it go lttg.
He didn’t play. He’s not as good as our other bigs.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
thank you
skill matters against Gasol, Bynum, and Odom, not just size.
by MichaelMack on Mar 17, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd have liked to see a few minutes just for rebounds
It wasn’t like Hawes or JT actually stopped a lot of shots inside either
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
But questionng authority
Is what my generation was all about,
Blind acceptance leads to FASCISM!
:)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Im not sure exactly what you mean by that
But I love the sentiment.
To the point, though, I have not missed Brockman one bit, although he is fun to watch because he acts like he is playing rugby, he is overwhelmed when playing against someone like Gasol.
I'd like to have seen size against Bynum
Gasol’s a little tougher nut to crack, but allowing Bynum to just dictate his position in the post completely plays to his strengths.
I think you make that kid work a bit, and you can still take him out of the game.
Am I the only one who noticed that Tom Zook gave his bank account number to an anonymous person over the phone?
I question this at the time.
Spencer was having a better game than Landry. Gasol had no problem shooting over Carl and Carl wasn’t making his outside shot. I would have played more JT and Spencer, rather then sit Hawes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I hate how Peaches is so insistent on Evans being a stat whore
It’s like Sam Amick was a dam, keeping Peaches at bay. Now that the dam’s gone we’re in a full peach flooding zone.
I’m all for Evans being a monster on the court, but come on. You know Napear would totally rail Jennings if he was in a game purely to get a triple double.
in order
whale poop>timberwolves>kobe bryant.
If Spencer had JT’s body a lot of problems would be solved. Donte had what, one point and one rebound. Not good enough. Good to see Omri regroup and basically tell Kobe to kiss his ass. Out.
by noreboundsnorings on Mar 17, 2010 8:02 AM PDT reply actions
Also
according to Grant, Tyreke is unselfish. Why? Cause he “always tries to score.” Case in point, the shot at the end of the 3rd, that he shot from 3/4 court ….
I don’t know if any of you are aware, but normal NBA players would NOT take a shot like that. They’re too worried about their shooting %. But no, not Tyreke. He’ll shoot the ball and not care about adding a missed shot to his stats.
Bite me Peaches.
that had to be
one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard a professional play by play man say. Jerry must have been cringing.
by MichaelMack on Mar 17, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Apropos title
I was at the game last night and TZ’s title couldn’t be more apropos. This was really magnified when seeing these match ups in person. Spencer might be as tall as Bynum, but he disappears when he stands behind him. And Landry on Gasol looked like a average size SF on a C. While Bynum may have out-muscled Spencer inside, Landry was absolutely obliterated by Gasol in every facet of the game. Seeing Gasol in person really highlights his impeccable footwork and economy of motion. He’s not as quick as Landry yet beat him everywhere on the floor. Moreover, he understands his strengths and almost never wastes effort on things he cannot do. He gives you most quiet 20+ you’ll ever see. On the other Landry was terrible last night. His defense is awful. It wasn’t just that he wasn’t getting rebounds; he was getting beat off the ball by everybody the Lakers through at him. To make matters worse, he couldn’t throw it in the ocean.
I’d have much rather seen JT and Hawes together last night. Spencer’s offense looked very good even if his defensive rebounding was more than suspect. (BTW, Spencer is often in good position yet will still not grab rebounds. The guy has no sense for the ball. There were times last night when he had his man blocked out, was in good position, and still couldn’t grab a rebound.) And while JT’s made his requisite 3 to 4 boneheaded plays due to Bull In The China Shop Syndrome, he brought a ton of energy and resistance on the defensive end and took good shots. Normally, I’m a Landry fan. I like his game. But last night, he was terrible and shouldn’t have gotten the burn that he did. (Same for Donte Green, who was also not very good on either side of the ball. It was good see more Noce and Omri.)
The difference last night wasn’t energy (as the Kings played hard and with pride); it was efficiency and confidence. The Lakers never look like they are in a hurry. They space the floor and trust their offense. On defense, they trust each other. Oh, and did I mention the spacing? Room to work. Passing lanes. An area to cut to the basket. Contrast that beautiful half-court basketball to the Mongolian Cluster F*ck that is the Kings’ half-court offense, which is more like a glorified pick up game – when Tyreke decides not to go 1 on 5. I’m a fan of PW from a personal stand point. And he has got the guys playing hard and supporting each. But this offense should not look so school yard this late in the season. And when is he going to figure out that Beno needs the ball much more in the half-court?
The defense isn’t even worth mentioning. You all saw it. When the guards weren’t getting screwed into the floor or getting lost on pick’n’roll plays, the bigs were managing not to grab rebounds. I will give on shout out to Francisco Garcia just for his pure effort (even if he wasn’t always effective.) Dude played really hard and gave Kobe fits a couple of times.
Lots of work on both sides of the ball for this young team. But the positive to take from this game and much of the season is that they play hard and work until the buzzer sounds. A coach can work with that kind of attitude.
by Kusian on Mar 17, 2010 8:30 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
Excellent recap
I thought Donte was weak last night, he needs to make his presence felt underneath more, we rely too much on Spencer to help everyone who gets beat, then dont crash the boards when he does. I loved the way JT, Cisco, Noc, and Omri came in. that is one intense and active group on the floor.
Nice
A lot of good points but This:
Beno needs the ball much more in the half-court
dissappointed me. Beno should have been a bigger scorer last night going against Fischer, though I noticed they threw a lot of other D at Beno, which is a credit to him I guess..
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Excellent critique
I think you nailed the problem with the Kings offense. If you put the ball in TE’s hands you take it out of Bano’s. While TE is dribbling and trying to make up his mind whether to drive down the clogged up middle and the shot clock is ticking down, his team mates stand around looking like statues waiting for something to happen. TE is PW’s baby and I don’t think anything will change. TE will have to change with experience and age, he will, I hope. When Bano has the ball the offense is much more fluid. TE has to be more aware of the clock and get into the offense more quickly. His dribbling drive me nuts. On the defensive end the Kings have never been able to stop a guards penetration and the bigs have to drop their man to cover someone else’s man. The result is a layin by the cutter or a drop off to the roller…….I always hate to admit it but the Lakers were by far the better team. Player wise and coaching wise. However, the Kings are young, inexperienced and PW is still in a learning mode.
Its Reggie Theus
he still can’t get it right
:-)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
nice job
Couldn’t agree with what you wrote more
Kusian, spot on analysis as well
Size does matter
In fact, Spencer Hawes alone had as many blocks (five) as the entire L.A. roster.
This surprises me. As it seemed like the Lakers were getting blocks right and left.
At any rate, I agree that the size of their starting frontline, Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, was a notable factor in the game last night and helped with them getting their offensive rebounds. They did have a size advantage.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Those were fouls they didn't call
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah! Now I see the light!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The effort was there
I’ll give Spencer, JT, & Landry an A for effort but the Lakers are HUGE. I was sitting right behind the Laker bench & aside from Sasha Vaginacic the all look like football players. That said Tyreke was the best player under 7’ on the court. If not now he will be. I know this is a bold statement & I will probably catch some heat for it but I believe it. I was arguing with someone the other day about L23 & Kobe & who is the best player. Kobe is a phenominal scorer. Maybe the best scorer ever, a very good defender great GREAT clutch player & that’s about it. He doesn’t make his teammates better. Never has. Never will. Without Gasol the Lakers would be a good playoff team & that’s it. Gasol was & is a franchise big man.
Now Lebron is superior to Kobe in every way. He is bigger, stronger, just as quick which is more of an advantage because of his size & strength, he can score just as good or better than Kobe, is a better rebounder, & he makes his teammates better. A LOT BETTER. L23 plays with a bunch of scrubs that would NEVER make an all-star team without him. With that his team is just as good if not better.
My point to all this rambling is Tyreke is really a mini Lebron. I don’t mean mini like Nate Robinson because Lebron mini-me is still huge. The only difference between Tyreke, Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson & Roy is an outside shot. That’s it. The only difference between Tyreke & Lebron? Well that’s a whole different story. I don’t think Tyreke will ever be as good as Lebron. He is too physically gifted. If Tyreke keeps racking up near triple-doubles WITHOUT an outside shot OMG. I don’t think these last few games are a fluke. He is getting more & more comfortable with his team & you are seeing the result .
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Mar 17, 2010 9:20 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
He is getting more & more comfortable with his team & you are seeing the result.
I totally agree, and I would add that Landry in particular seems to mesh really well with Tyreke (somewhat surprisingly, since he’s played with him so much less than everyone else). Landry loves getting those clean looks at long 2 pointers, and that’s the perfect place for ‘Reke to drive-and-kick to. Landry also seems to be really good at following ’Reke to the basket when he knows he’s getting all the way there and getting open for the close pass or crashing for the offensive rebound. I just think Landry is a really smart player and he seems to be doing a great job of reading and reacting to Tyreke’s moves.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 17, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter that he's been playing with Landry for a shorter time because
Landry is just a good player. Not a “he might be good some day” player like most of the guys we have.
I love beating dead horses.
Rec'd for the last line
The be-gingered one was driving me crazy last night. “Tyreke takes the ball up court… he passes it to some guy… (missed shot) and the assist is no good…”
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 17, 2010 9:20 AM PDT reply actions
Something I always hated was when there is a good pass
& the player is fouled. If the player makes a free throw or 2 if you want that should be an assist.
Anyways as some of you who actually pay some attention to my ramblings have noticed I tend to panic a little after losses. So I was thinking Rudy Gay would give this team near 20 a night AND give Tyreke atleast 3 more assists, atleast.
I have a question. If the Kings were to trade for Dalembert would that make us better up front? I don’t watch Philly much. I know the guy blocks a few shots but is that all he does? I guess a better question is if we had a front court of Dalembert & Landry or JT would it have been any different?
I love beating dead horses.
We had Landry and JT upfront most of last night
So, no, against this team, I don’t think so. Dalembert might be a bit better defender than JT and Hawes. But he is not dramatically better.
So are you saying JT & Dalembert are similar players?
Or are you just going by heighth? I am asking because I really believe JT is not a center. Dalembert is a real center. I am asking more about his rebounding & defense against guys like Gasol & Bynum.
I love beating dead horses.
I think you are wrong...
I guess depending on your definition of ‘dramatically’.
Here are some defensive stats that I think are useful measures of a player’s defensive impact:
DEF = (blocks + steals + charges)/game
TRR = total rebound rate
Dal – DEF 2.56, TRR 21.7
Hawes – DEF 1.62 , TRR 13.1
Shock – DEF 1.67, TRR 15.5
So, Shock looks like the better defender (by theses metrics) of the Shock and Hawes pair. And Dal’s DEF is 50 percent higher than Shock’s, and his rebound rate is around 17 percent better. I’d say that’s dramatic. Of course, there are other ways of measuring defense…
My response was in terms of his impact on the Lakers specifically
I think that Dalembert mixed with Landry, JT, or Hawes doesn’t make a lot of difference in the current version of Kings v. Lakers.
I could be wrong, though. Mine was a gut reaction.
Dalembert is still in the East, yes?
Those are nice numbers
I wonder how his ratings are against other good centers(hint,hint)
I really wouldn’t mind having Dalembert next year if he will help. It shouldn’t hurt Whiteside’s or whoevers development as he will be a few years away anyway. I don’t care that he is not good offensively we have Landry for post offense. He is only what? 28? Him or Tyson Chandler if he ever gets healthy. Trading for Chandler would free up money for Charlotte to sign Felton &/or (sniffle,sniffle) Tyrus Thomas :(
I love beating dead horses.
A lot of potential assists did become fouls
Unlike us, they rarely let the foul be an ‘and-1’
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
It's as if
Only Tyreke is cursed with missed assists.
NO OTHER POINT GUARD HAS LOST SO MANY ASSISTS AS TYREKE EVANS EVER!
Am I the only one who noticed that Tom Zook gave his bank account number to an anonymous person over the phone?
This
The Kings rank 7th in field goal attempts per game and 11th in made field goals. This would seem to indicate that Tyreke’s teammates make more baskets than the majority of NBA teams, in spite of the fact that they rank 17th in FG percentage. In other words, they may miss a few more shots, but they make up for that because they get more attempts. Granted, they are 5th in offensive rebounds, and some of those lead to putbacks. But Evans’ teammates are not dragging his assist numbers down, at least no more so than most other teams in the league drag their own PG’s assist numbers down.
End the rant, Grant.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
End the rant, Grant.
You might as well hope that a spaceship stops in El Dorado Hills and swoops Peaches away to another universe. You know the ranting of ‘Rant won’t stop anytime soon. Maybe, if somebody put a 45 to his head for instance….
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It is frustrating when they are missing wide open shots from a Tyreke pass
I love beating dead horses.
Frustrating
because the player misses the shot and we don’t get the two points, or frustrating because Tyreke doesn’t get the assist? For me, I suppose it’s both, though the missed basket bothers me more.
The mid-line for 3-point percentage is about 35%, and that’s where the Kings sit. Whenever Tyreke passes to a guy at the 3-point line, Grant chalks up for the assist for ‘Reke before crediting the player with the basket, even though the tougher part of this gig is making the freakin’ shot. And if the guy misses the shot, Grant will eventually add it to the massive total of assists that Tyreke’s teammates are costing him.
I just need to stop listening to Grant. The problem is, that means turning down Jerry, too. And I like Jerry.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Mar 17, 2010 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Both but worse that we don't get the points
I understand the 3s but there was one I remember a pass to JT & he missed a wide open 10 footer
I love beating dead horses.
Yep -
And Noc air balled a 15 footer from the baseline. Very frustrating when that happens. But the Kings are a little better than the league average when it comes to made shots, so I really don’t know that Tyreke is suffering any more than most other point guards.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
No the actual answer is:
Grant kisses Tyreke’s ass on the air because he wants to keep his job by toting the company line.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And also because
Evans succeding means Grant was right about him from the very beginning. We all knew he was going to be good too but he’s te one with the mic and it just feeds his ego.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Yeah
I said over the summer that the Kings clearly thought he was a franchise player.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
JR had been raving about him too
I’m sure you remember. Of course Peaches would know it was likely they’d pick him that’s why he bad mouthed Rubio so much before the draft.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
When did Peaches bad mouth Rubio?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Before and after the draft
He kept making fun of anyone who would bring up Rubio. All of this on the radio of course
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Of course. How dare people think Ricky Rubio is talented?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Omri misses shots on purpose when Tyreke passes it to him
or he’ll bounce it off the rim & get his own put back. I’m joking by the way….sort of. No I am joking really.
I love beating dead horses.
With
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 17, 2010 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't the type of assists that's creating the problem. Or where on the court
Steve Nash gets 4.8 assts at the rim, 8.5 on 2pt shots and 2.6 on 3pt shots
Chris Paul gets 4.0 assts at the rim, 8.1 on 2pt shots and 3.1 on 3pt shots
Deron Williams gets 4.7 at the rim, 8.4 on 2pt shots and 1.9 on 3pt shots
Tyreke Evans gets 1.7 at the rim, 3.8 on 2pt shots and 1.8 on 3pt shots.
None of our guards set up the post guys for easy baskets. We shot 60% at the rim and 35% beyond the arc. It doesn’t take a math wizard to figure out that your going to get more assists from your post players and your 3pt shooters.
If Tyreke were setting up the post players 3 more times per game instead of kicking out to players shooting a long 2 or 3, he’d be right up in the top 4
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Mar 18, 2010 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
This is an excellent point HT. That's one area Reke will have to get better at if he's going to even merit real comparison to Deron Williams.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Against any other team
last night was a victory. That’s small consolation, as the Kings lost, but I look forward to more games where they work this hard and play this tough.
It seemed like
Every Hawes block turned into a Laker offensive rebound. We can’t blame this all on the bigs. I mean come on Donte. You are 6’11" and grab 1 rebound in 20 minutes? Tyreke gets that he needs to help on the boards but the other players seem to forget that.
Also, Hawes could pad his rebound stats real easy by not playing help D. But stats don’t win games. So 5 blocks, could be 2 or 3 rebounds maybe, not to include all the missed blocks that could turn into rebs. Lay off the guy. He is the only shot blocker on the team, and sometimes that costs him some rebounds.
I like this
Also, Hawes could pad his rebound stats real easy by not playing help D. But stats don’t win games. So 5 blocks, could be 2 or 3 rebounds maybe, not to include all the missed blocks that could turn into rebs.
But those blocks might end up being points so no rebounds. How the hell do you stop the blockquote & put your own comment? Help please I can’t figure it out.
I love beating dead horses.
The blockquotes only go around (before and after) the information you want quoted.
You write your information after the blockquote.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I usually write out my whole comment and then highlight what I'm quoting and click the blockquote button
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 17, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
This is what I do as well.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yes they may be points,
Thats why I said an opportunity for 2 or 3 rebounds instead of 5. Hell those could be another 10 points if he doesn’t help out. That makes the game very lopsided. This is not to mention the altered shots that could have made the game even more lopsided.
Overall rebounding is on the shoulders of a team. Players need to rotate and box out. If your man drops back to prevent the fast break, don’t follow to the other side of the court, find the rotated man and box out. I will try and find video evidence of where this fails.
VIDEO EVIDENCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctZ2thhxs5c
Not sure how to or if I even can show the clip here, but it is 1st half highlights for the lakers.
Heres my analysis.
21 Seconds in: Hawes helps out, changes Kobe shot, but no rotation to box out Bynum, and offensive rebound.
1:03- Tyreke goes for steal leaving Landry and Hawes to help. Landry bails to get back to Gasol, leaving Bynum for the dunk.
1:07- Tyrke roles wrong way and doesn’t pick up cutter on pick and role making Hawes look at fault.
1:20- Hawes boxes out, Landry challenges shot, Tyreke pinches Bynum. Look at donte and Beno stand around. No rebound opporutunity.
1:25- Hawes battles Bynum and alters shot while getting pushed away. Landry and Hawes battle for rebound, Donte, Beno, and Reke watch Bynum get it.
1:48- Hawes challenges Kobe shot, no one picks up Bynum for the box out. Watch Beno.
2:18- No Hawes in the game = no shot blocker and Kobe walks to the rim.
3:20- Long Artest 3, is usually a long rebound, but no Casspi or Tyreke box out. Good box out by Hawes and Landry should mean a rebound by Casspi or Reke. And the play finished with Hawes and Landry down low vs. Gasol, Bynum, Artest and the ball handler Fisher. Hawes helps and his man scores again. This play is on Tyreke for going for the steal instead of staying infront of fisher.
3:27- Kobe drive, Hawes helps, Beno takes off instead of rotating to bynum for the box out. Thus a Bynum offensive rebound. And Tyreke does not box out again. THEN Hawes blocks bynum, but Tyreke and Beno are still no factors in the rebounding game and he gets it back. Good effort by Landry and Hawes, but outmanned without the other 2 players (Beno/Reke) doing there job. And Casspi failing to get inside of Gasol.
4:00- Casspi gets lost on screan, Hawes steps up to help out, Casspi doesn’t switch and easy bucket for bynum.
OVERALL:
The Kings do a bad job crashing the board and boxing out. Hawes is the only shotblocker, and the other players dont rotate to box out men. The gaurds and wings flake on rebounding and don’t do anything to help the big men.
by mike murray on Mar 17, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
boom boom pow
Excellent work Mike, thanks. That was a frustrating series to watch last night, and I get frustrated too that Spencer seems to shoulder a lot of blame for poor team defense/rebounding.
Very Very nice analysis
During the telecast at about the 1st time out, Katye commented that coach Eyen told Spencer that Eyens didn’t care if Spencer got another rebound as long as he kept Bynum from getting it.
There are a lot of bigger problems on the Kings and with their defense, then Spencer Hawes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Thanks guys
Tough to watch those highlights (lowlights) for a second time. Painful analysis.
by mike murray on Mar 17, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
thats a good point Mike
He was very active on defense last night, and it pulled him away from the boards. Landry and Donte need to step up and actually get some rebounds in traffic so Hawes can keep that up.
by MichaelMack on Mar 17, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Even if it costs him "some" rebounds
It’s not the sole issue. Watch him play, he’s just not physical enough or determined enough to block out properly on most (non shot-blocking) occasions.
Some guys desperately want the ball when it comes off the rim…I don’t think Spencer is one of those guys yet.
Am I the only one who noticed that Tom Zook gave his bank account number to an anonymous person over the phone?
On that subject
The biggest knock I have on Spencers rebounding (when no switches occur / he doesnt have to help on a driving wing placer) is that he boxes out too much with his upper body. He puts his elbow into the chest of Bynum instead on using his lower half and not allowing Bynum to use his legs.
The best way for a smaller/weaker player to gain an advantage is to put his ass into the thigh of the player they are boxing out and put enough presure that the player cannot jump or go over you without fouling you. With this arms go out (and slightly back until caught by the ref) to keep Bynum in place. On a one on one rebound this is the only way to gain the advantage as the defensive player, as the offensive player has a better angle to the rebound. (Also if possible get your elbows over there arms so they have to go through you to get there arms up for a rebound- usually get away with this more often in strong size mismatch).
IF I was rebounding/defense coach, I would empasis team rebounding based on rotating gaurds when shot blockers go to help, and not leaving until the rebound has been secured. I would also emphasis rebounding from the players lower half, and not trying to use arm stregnth to out muscle the bigger player (Bynum/Gasol/Etc.)
by mike murray on Mar 17, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This video somewhat shows what Im talking about
Tough to find game action boxing out on you-tube. Guess its not exciting enough. But watch Dwight explain boxing out, and notice how he, one of the biggest upperbodys in the world, tells people to get low and push with your lower half (while using arms). – Not what Hawes has been taught about putting his elbow into the chest of the opponent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ozw1PTgC8
by mike murray on Mar 17, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Tizzy was the best at using his big ass as an advantage
Too bad he’s not around to teach our young guys a few tricks. Not that he would have anyway he loved his music too much. RIP Tizzy.
I love beating dead horses.
Strange that Donte' with his size wasn't as effective as Omri
against such a tall team, but young players I guess
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Did we ever find out who the jack-ass was that asked the
question about how effective Ron-Ron was on Tyreke and PW bitch slapped him down?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Yes
It was some random reporter for some small website called Sacramento Press.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
That was such an asinine question.
I wonder how serious he was when he asked it, or if he was hoping to provoke PW a little. He must be a Laker fan.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Size is why I'd take the chance on Cousins
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I hear you...
…but damn that guy makes me nervous!
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
at least he's been healthy
important for a big man (see Oden)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 17, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
He makes me very nervous, too!
But with his stats, I’d take the risk.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Unlike a lot of people here
I would be ecstatic if we ended up with Cousins on draft day. The guy is a stud.
I love beating dead horses.
Rec'd for making me smile, TZ
By the way, according to Grant Napear, Tyreke is only 10 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists away from his second career triple-double.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I was most recommended comment on the sacbee wrap-up
yippee for me
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I am finally forced to say this lttg:
you are a stat whore
(sarcasm)
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Getting the most rec's at sacbee.com
is like being the best player on the Nets, sans the paycheck. Congrats, though.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Mar 17, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Question for the older NBA fans here thats always been on my mind
Love him or hate him Kobe is the best player in the game since Jordan left (once LBJ has a couple rings this will probably change, although he always reminded me more of the next coming of Magic, cause like Jerry said last night he and Magic could easily be an All-Star at 4 different positions.).
My question is, when Jordan was playing was he respected and treated like the NBA god he is today, or did it take a few years after he left the league for people to embrace him as the best player? I ask this cause I feel like a lot of the hate for Kobe comes from his success (although the Shaq drama didn’t help, I for one think the Lakers dumped Shaq at the right time).
Also when Kobe retires do you feel that he will be better embraced then he is today?
I ask cause I remember watching MJ play but was still a young pup and payed no attention to what was “really” going on, I was merely just watching basketball.
Like I said on another post
Kobe is Kevin Martin with the heart, swagger, & fierceness of a lion. He is a great scorer but not the best player. Lebron is superior to Kobe in every way. Lebron does everything Kobe does & does it better. He also makes his teammates better. A lot better. Lebron plays with a bunch of scrubs & makes them look like all-stars. Lebron will get his rings. Kobe has never won one without a franchise caliber big man & never will. Shaq was the best big man in the league when he was a laker & Gasol is a top 5 big man maybe top 3. Not to take anything away from Kobe he is the most competitive player in the league. Jordan-esque in that category. Oh & I think Lebron might end up being better than Jordan.
I love beating dead horses.
Every Batman needs a Robin
to get over the hump. MJ had Scottie and a pretty solid team behind him. Kobe was still able to take a team with the next best player being Lamar Odom (Lamar is good but not consistent enough to be a number 2 option) to the second round of the playoffs. I think Kobe gets knocked on that topic a lot, but his teams still find a way to win, and Gasol and Bynum have done pretty well next to Kobe. Gasol was good in Memphis, but he has become Great as a Laker, a lot of that is due to the presence of Kobe; just as much as Kobe doing well (and the Lakers) is due to Gasol being there.
Oh and I too think Lebron will go down as the best ever, very interested too see how he does in the playoffs with a Robin. They still need another big man though, no matter how good LBJ is.
Back to the original question, i’m guess then that your feeling is MJ didn’t have as much hatred for him from other teams fans.
To answer your question yes he will be embraced
right now he is a smug bastard but no one cares about that when you are out of the game. All people will remember is how good of a player he was.
Also I am aware of the batman & robin idea but who is Lebron’s Pippen? Mo Williams? Of course my point is only valid if the Cavs win this year & I believe they will. I will give credit to Pippen for leading the Bulls to the second round of the playoffs when Jordan retired he was very good but he was no batman. Pau Gasol was batman in Memphis. He won 50 games a few times with a bunch of young scrubs & a terrible organization who never wanted to build a real team around him. Take our team minus Tyreke & plug in Gasol & that was Memphis’ 50 win team in a tough western conference.
I know my opinion of Kobe isn’t a popular one. I don’t know if it is right or wrong or biased based on how I despise Kobe but this is what I see. Maybe I have just seen Kobe do it for so many years that it doesn’t impress me anymore. All I know is when I watch Lebron I am truly amazed every second
I love beating dead horses.
Really KBZ it took me a long time to get that
but now that I do it’s pretty funny
I love beating dead horses.
I was thinking Jamison for the Robin
Pau did carry those teams, you are correct. I forgot who their coach was at the time though, I thought he was decent which made a lot of difference in the play of guys like J Will, Mike Miller.
Your opinion of Kobe is a consistent one in my opinion. There are quit a few people who are more amazed by what Lebron does (in all aspects of the game) than by what Kobe does (with the occasional Game Winners), this includes me. I respect Kobe as a player and somewhat as a person, but still not a fan. However Lebron could go for 80 on us, and I would be happy to say I watched it, and then cry about how horrible our defense is.
Hubie Brown & Mike Fratello were the coaches I believe
I hope Jamison is Robin someone needs to be to take out the Lakers.
I love beating dead horses.
Brief answer Gilo
When Jordan started taking the Bulls to the finals and consistently winning championships he was pretty much universally adored. There is really no comparison between Kobe and MJ. His gambling, womanizing, abrasive personality and obsessive competitiveness mostly went under the radar. It was a different era without the multi – channel 24/7 news cycle in place yet. By the second championship the public began realizing that MJ was a once in an era talent and Jordan was revered as a uniquely skilled b-ball player. MJ was also a master at managing his persona, something that Kobe has only taken seriously recently. Lastly, MJ was never accused of rape which in my opinion will always damage Kobe’s reputation.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Thank you Blue
really informative. Makes you wonder if things would be different if Jordan played in the 24/7 news cycle days. ESPN has become the ugly side of sports INMHO
I disagree with this statement
ESPN has become the ugly side of sports INMHO
ESPN has made the light that shines on all of sports brighter. Much brighter. With all the good – we get sports information shovelled to us by the minute – phone, SportsCenter, 24 hr ESPNews, nostaglia – ESPN Classic and with that information there is both good and bad. When you showing everything it is too difficult to employ censhorship.
It has brought the athletes and their Leagues unprecendented exposure and unprecedented money. How much did ESPN do to bring Tiger Woods to be the most popular athlete in the world? His every movement is news and when he messed up, he got the chance to mess up big.
Is it too much information? Bill Clinton thinks so. JFK lived in simpler times and benefitted from that. These guys need to know their exposure and if they don’t then they have no one to blame but themselves.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 17, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree about Kobe being the best player in the game since MJ left no question
But LeBron is catching up, but for my money I’d rather have Kobe to win a ring.
MJ was treated like HE WAS THE NBA in the last few years of his prime (mid-late 90’s). When he was younger, he was a ballhog and it took him awhile to realize he had other teammates. The Michael Jordan who won championships was not the same player who played for the Bulls in the mid 80’s. Not even close. (I was too young to remember those years though.)
When Kobe retires, he will be loved in LA and nowhere else. He’s too much of a jerk in too many people minds, and the rape charge (I don’t think he’s guilty but a lot of people do) will always haunt him that way.
Having said that, there isn’t a player who could match Michael Jordan offensively in his prime. Nobody in this era plays in the same NBA that MJ did in his prime (especially before his 1st retirement).
On the other hand, MJ didn’t do it all alone. He played with 2 other Hall of Famers (or guys who should be there), and with multiple All-Star caliber players who won’t go to the Hall.
it takes a great talent like MJ to win rings, but it also takes a lot of talent to surround that player with the talent to beat any team in the NBA.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For the record
I don’t think Kobe raped anyone either but having unprotected anal sex with ugly disturbed white girls you just met is almost just as bad.
He is was the bast player after Jordan until Lebron came but he is no Jordan or Lebron.
I love beating dead horses.
As long as we are guessing
I guess that she said no when he tried to go backdoor and the rape and the rage began.
But thats just my guess.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Sounds about right
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Mar 17, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
this issue was so sheltered and spun so much
the only two people who know for sure are Kobe and his accusor.
Did this girl decide to go for the money, for the extortion? Or did she decide to have sex with a famous celebrity who went to far, as no means NO (and rape is an awful terrible crime)?
by betweentheeyes on Mar 17, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that none of us knows what really happened.
At this point in time, making unsupported accusations and speculations reflects more on the person making those accusations than it does about Kobe. It is time to give it a rest.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Respectfully disagree
Kobe is one of the all time greats, but I think that he is a douche bag of the highest order. And since I have no concrete evidence to support my opinion of him, I must resort to cheap innuendo.
By the way, that’s what Kobe said to the co-ed: “This is going innuendo!”
(I know that this proves me to be a shallow person, but I already knew that about myself, so no biggie.)
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Mar 18, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No biggie, TWSS
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Section
you are a grown a$$ man.r ec’d.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 18, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be easiest enough to just say
Kobe is one of the all time greats, but I think that he is a douche bag of the highest order.
KOBE
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Yes -
But then I wouldn’t have been able to use my “This is going innuendo” joke. And to ask me to take a pass on posting infantile, sophomoric “humor” is to ask me not to breathe. And God gave me gills for a reason.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I knew it!!!
You just used my post as an excuse to post your “innuendo” joke. I feel so used.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Mar 19, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is awesome.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I completely agree with all of this.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The difference between confidence and arrogance
is the same as the difference between Jordan and Bryant
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
if you're arguing that MJ wasn't arrogant....
….I have a London Bridge in Arizona I’d like to see you ElRon.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It won't fall down will it?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Not if you're in Lake Havisu.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was thinking the same thing pook
but that is a perfect example of how a player is thought of after his career is over. You only remember the good.
I love beating dead horses.
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