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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Grizzlies 102, Kings 85

While that wasn't exactly the most motivational way to ease into a five-game Eastern road trip, the Kings weren't nearly as outplayed as the final score indicates. In fact, the Kings outplayed the Grizzlies through 3-1/2 quarters: this game was 84-84 before the Grizzlies went on an 18-2 run to kill the game. And how did that run happen? The Kings offense stalled, with the wings missing shots and fast break opportunities, while the Kings defense did what it did most of the game, which is to let Memphis score with relative ease.

Actually, truth be told, Memphis didn't exactly score easily all game long. The Kings tried to defend, and through 3-1/2 quarters O.J. Mayo was ineffective. But he began hitting his open shots late in that fourth, and he sealed the game. Mayo had 10 points in the fourth, quite literally beating the Kings by himself.

Any suggestion the lack of Tyreke Evans let the ball movement offense of Sacramento blossom was thoroughly dissembled as the Kings shot an effective field goal percentage of .426, against what has been a mediocre Memphis defense. The Kings assisted 19 of 36 makes, just over 50 percent, which tells you there was plenty of one-on-one play.

Star-divide

The thing about Carl Landry is that he filters himself. He selects his shots well. That's fantastic -- that's why he's considered the power forward version of Kevin Martin, with that amazing efficiency. But the Kings needed a scorer to absorb the entire offense last night, a Tyreke-style scorer. With Evans out, the team didn't have it. Francisco Garcia can't be that scorer. Beno can't. And it looks like Landry can't. That's fine -- perhaps only five or six big men in the world can do it at this level. Zach Randolph is one, but has enough holes to discount it. Amar'e Stoudemire's one. Carlos Boozer. Dirk Nowitzki and Yao Ming, of course. Perhaps Antawn Jamison, on a good night. Brook Lopez. Pau Gasol.

So, eight. That's fine. We have Evans, and he can handle supernova duties regularly. Landry's filter will be a boon going forward, but it didn't help in the fourth, as the Kings needed someone to calm the team and just take good shots, score some points to keep things interesting. Landry was thrown out of his comfort zone by the Grizz (and the yippy Sacramento offense, to be sure), and he couldn't get much going naturally. He couldn't manufacture looks, and that's the ballgame.

***

The foul situation was just absurd. I'm not even going to discuss it, except to say it was absurd.

***

OK, one comment: if Dwyane Wade were playing for the Grizzlies in this game, he would have taken 1,238 free throws, and the game would still be going on.

***

I liked the defense of Spencer Hawes. His rebounding was not good, of course. And every Grizzlies big who played was efficient on offense. But I saw no defensive possessions where Hawes did something blatantly wrong. Maybe he did, and I missed it. But subtle mistakes instead of obvious ones ... that'd be improvement, right? Meanwhile, Landry and Jason Thompson fought hard, but couldn't get anything done on defense. C'est la vie. Fight another day.

***

If Ime Udoka were a private eye, he'd be Sam Spade.

***

You explain to me how the fact that Andres Nocioni took seven FGAs in 11 minutes is impressive as hell.

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Offensive struggles

There have been quite a few games this year where a bad stretch of offense has killed us (especially when that stretch lasts a quarter or a half!). I’ve plead with the tv screen on more than one occasion: “please, please run a good set and get a good shot!”

Didn’t see the game, but checked the box at the end of the 3rd and the free throw disparity was pretty significant. What up with that?

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Mar 23, 2010 6:49 AM PDT reply actions  

The refs went on a spree of calling a lot of fouls on Sacramento.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can see the growth...

however, we need top 5 pick this year in the draft. So… I was not all that dissapointed. 8th pick in this years draft does not sound very sexy!

by Shadrack on Mar 23, 2010 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

some thoughts

       Went to the game and have some thoughts. Obviously Evans was missed. But I keep wondering about the 3 spot. It seems PW is trying to hand this spot to someone and no one is good enough to take the position. PW keeps starting Donte and has given him the chance to take the position, but his performance leaves me wondering. Everytime I look at the box score it seems Donte has a few points and even fewer rebounds. A few months ago I thought Donte has possible stardom written all over him, now I am beginning to wonder. If Casspi puts on some weight and muscle over the summer and returns to his first few months form, he should be the answer.
         Landry is a big improvement over JT when it comes to offense. He just has a smooth way about him and does not panic around the basket. It seems JT’s best offensive move is the 15 foot jump shot. Other than that, he struggles around the basket. Landry is not that much older than JT and has not played that much longer in the league than JT too.
          Spence is playing a lot better. A good summer in the weight room I think will do wonders next year for Spence.
           It pains me to think this, but a few months ago if you asked me about JT and Donte, I believed their future was secure with the Kings. I am not so sure today. I can see on draft day or during the summer if the right package were presented (and I know anyone can be had for the right package) that JT and Donte could be moved. For who, I have no clue. Maybe I am just down on them right now, but this is the first time in a long time that I am beginning to wonder about their futures here.

by noreboundsnorings on Mar 23, 2010 8:20 AM PDT reply actions  

JT has no future with the Kings

I have been saying that since late November. The same fans who want to defend JT are the same fans who said the Tyreke-Kevin backcourt was an ideal duo, when it was clear it was borderline disaster.

I was in LA at Staples to see the Clips game and the contrast between JT and Landry is pretty dramatic. Landry is like a bull in the paint. He goes where he wants and does want he wants, with patience, force, and touch. JT is like an jackal on ice skates. Nothing personal against the guy, he is just not a good basketball player.

I would argue that JT is less of a basketball player than Mikki Moore. Mikki could get you garbage points, stick the open jumper on occasion. Mikki played solid position defense. He could even follow jam a miss, something JT cannot do. JT is the bigger athlete, but as far as a basketball player, JT has to improve to get to the level of Mikki Moore. What does that tell you?

Donte is a keeper IMO. Defensively, spot up threes, filling the lane on breaks, he has a lot to offer. Not sure if he can elevate to level of consistent starter, but I think he can be an effective rotational player. I have always been high on Spencer. I predicted 16/10 for him after the all-star break. He hasn’t posted those numbers yet, but he has been getting more comfortable and steady. Needs to finish year strong.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that you would prefer Mikki Moore to Jason Thompson

makes me very glad your not in charge of any personnel decisions.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 23, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, no, no, not Mikki Moore!
JT is the bigger athlete, but as far as a basketball player, JT has to improve to get to the level of Mikki Moore. What does that tell you?

He was waived by Warriors, Jan. 4, 2010- What does that tell you?

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow.

If that is just to get a rise out of people, nice form. If you are serious, then that is a stupid statement. JT is a MUCH better rebounder than either Landry or Spencer, so he has great value to the team.

by MichaelMack on Mar 23, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

bench_blob

has been pushing his anti-JT stuff for a couple of months now; he really doesn’t like the guy.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

How could I dislike a guy that I don't know?

I have nothing personal against JT. I have never attacked him personally. I am not a fan of his game. I think I have made that clear. And I think my assessment of his ability has been fairly accurate if you have been paying attention to his level of play the last 30 to 40 games.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll rephrase if it will make you happy

bench_blob really doesn’t like JT’s game.

Happy now?

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

but I was happy before, as well. Still thanks for your concern for my well-being.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

as long as everyone’s happy.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

That JT is a better rebounder than Spencer and Landry, but where are we as a rebounding team? Not good. Defensively, we are around 22nd out of 30 teams in rebounding. So JT strength as a player is not making a difference on a team basis. Then you add to the fact that he is a poor defender and chronic fouler with NO low post game, so you have to ask, how valuable is he?

Not only is Landry the vastly superior post player, he is a better defender. Landry is not a stopper, but he plays position defense and makes post players earn their points. JT gives away a lot of points with silly fouls, and gets out of position because of poor balance.

Regarding Mikki Moore comparison, I am not referring to his Warrior days, but his Kings days. He was a pretty good player for a while. He had a nice half-hook, he had good timing around the hoop to follow jam, and he could spot up and shoot the 15 footer. Again JT is a superior athlete with his size, but Mikki Moore had better basketball skills. Not really an opinion, it is a fact.

JT may very well stay on the team because his contract status is agreeable, and his trade value is low, but his future is tenuous at best. He was a late lottery pick in a year with slim pickings. He has not panned out as we hoped. Fortunately, Geoff was prudent and opportunistic enough to act at the trade deadline to find his replacement.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

he's 22 or 23, he's not a finished product

and even right now, he’s a better player than Mikki Moore was when he was here.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

About Mikki

Sure, the half hook was nice. So were the 15 footer and follow up jams. His problem was the lobster claws for hands. He could hit those shots you listed, but only if he could catch the god damned ball, which was rare.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

as a rebounding team

we’re in the top ten. but yes, we are deficient in defensive rebounding. the thing is, jt is the best defensive rebounder on the team. best rebounder on the team. PERIOD.

by Harrisonyaka on Mar 23, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup

agreed there, mate. jt is damn inconsistent, but he has shown us flashes. all things considered, he has potential to be a damn godzilla in the paint. but the thing is, jt and hawes are huge head cases. we have seen pure magnificence from these two players, but the minute they are intimidated/frustrated/other, their weaknesses come out to shine.

by Harrisonyaka on Mar 23, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

JT's value isn't as high as we all thought

But worse than Mikki Moore? Sounds like someone forget to take their smart pills this morning.

The problem is our perception of JT and us wanting him to be more than he is. When JT was drafted we all had the initial “WTF? Whose he?” moment. Then we started making comparisons: “He used to be a guard, so he can pass. Maybe he’ll be like C-Webb!” Or “He could be the next Malone.” The reality of JT is that he’s just an incredibly solid role playing big who still has a few things to learn. Not bad for a 12th pick in his second year. Talk all the mess you like about JT, but his current role off the bench is perfect for him. His production doesn’t drop at all if he comes off the bench. In fact, he scores at the exact same rate, with a bit higher field goal percentage. And his rebounding rate is slightly improved. JT is perfect as the first big off the bench. It’s not his fault he’s been playing the wrong role so far.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Incredibly solid role player?

Do me a favor next game, V, and watch JT try to set an effective screen. JT does not even set a solid pick! In other words, he has trouble standing in the right place on the court!!! He releases too early because he gets nailed with offensive fouls. So he has resigned himself to setting half-assed picks just to avoid another whistle against him. He has no sense of timing, spacing, or footwork. Sorry, not my definition of an incredible role player.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Timing, spacing, footwork

Three things that can be taught. Remember, this is only his second year. And quite frankly, the first year doesn’t count since he played most of it under Kenny Nattin’ Natt.

Also, why set an effective screen when the guard you’re setting it for doesn’t use the screen effectively? Every game I watch it drives me nuts to watch ‘Reke or Beno dribble away from the screen, making the pick useless. Or they drive their guy into the screen and completely ignore the person setting it. I’m sorry but until someone teaches this team how to effectively use a screen then it doesn’t matter if JT effectively sets a screen.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Agreed.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 23, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

JT was a four year college guy

who has played a ton of games, and ton of minutes his 1st two NBA seasons, and his progress has been marginal at best. He has regressed in a lot of areas. He has no reliable scoring moves, a total inability to avoid foul trouble, and cannot play pick and roll offense or defense. PW has stopped calling plays for him. He has been moved from PF to C to back-up C in effort to find a place where he can be effective. If JT showed glimpses of skill, then patience in his development could be afforded. I just do not see enough in his development as a player to warrant much more patience.

Timing, spacing and footwork are more about reading and reacting on the court. They are not so much learned skills, as they are relying on smart basketball instincts. JT struggles in this area.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like JT off the bench

JT was a four year college guy, but he had a really late growth spurt. I don’t know that you can compare his development to others based on his age alone. Watching him play, I really don’t think he realizes how big he is.

My first thought when I read your post was that you are crazy. He was averaging about 15/10 when you made up your mind in late november/december. I love JT as an energy guy, a rebounder, and someone who can hit an open 18 footer to keep the defense honest for 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a guy that you would not have to run a single play for, and he would probably average close to 10/10 in that time.

The thing is, I also see Landry as a really good 6th man. If we are going after another power forward in this offseason, I would rather have Landry as our first big man off the bench. JT would still be good as our second big man off the bench, but it is hard for me give that role a lot of value.

by markdog333 on Mar 23, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem with this line of thinking

is the 10/10 he gives you is offset by an equal or greater number of bad plays, so his overall impact is negative. A lot of the points he gets are because of lack of respect from other teams challenging him to score. How do I put this succinctly: JT doesn’t help a team win. In fact, our power forward PER differential is second worst in the NBA to the Nets, prior to the arrival of Sir Carl.

I am done bashing on JT for the time being. His play will speak for itself.

by bench_blob on Mar 23, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Three things that can be taught. Remember, this is only his second year. And quite frankly, the first year doesn’t count since he played most of it under Kenny Nattin’ Natt.

That’s a bit of a cop out.

I haven’t really payed enough attention probably with tyreke but beno sure as heck knows how to use a screen and when he attacks quick and pops it at mid range, that is his best move. It’s not his fault that JT can’t set a screen. I will never compare JT to Mikki More but can’t give him a free pass either.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Mar 23, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beno's the number one offender of not using the screens set for him

He’s gotten better at it but he dribbles away from the pick all the time

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is important

I think the foul issue has really hampered JT’s development. My guess is he’s worrying more about staying in the game, than improving as an NBA player. There’s a lot of mental work as well as physical work that needs to be done.

There’s no reason to give up on the kid so quickly. Four years of college or not, he’s still a second year player in the NBA. Next year will be the telling year for him IMO.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Mar 23, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

remember when nene couldn't avoid fouls

(not saying that JT will be Nene, I am aware that Nene was a better pro prospect, but do think Otis has a point)

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Mar 23, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patience is always needed with young players.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

thoughts

I actually have to disagree a bit with TZ here: Tyreke does kill ball movement when he consistently goes 1 on 4/5. It also takes his teammates out of the game. Regardless, in the 2nd half, when nobody could or (in Landry’s and Beno’s case) would throw it in the ocean, you need somebody who can get his own shot or force fouls. Tyreke is the man for that. Beno is much more effective than Tyreke at moving the ball and working the pick and pop, but when the offense breaks down Beno can’t consistently get his own shot. He’s a rhythm shooter and, for the most part, must square his body and get a good look before he’ll shoot. I have not problem with that; he understands his limitations. However, that limitation hurt us last night when they really locked into Beno and were forcing other people to make shots. Tyreke, I suspect, would have found a way to score where other’s could not.

Of course, it didn’t help that PW yanked Spencer and gave us JT instead for a good part of the 3rd and 4th. Predictably, the offensive flow stagnated and the defensive side turned into a hack fest. (Why is it that JT will run straight into an offensive player or hack an offensive player and then argue every call with the ref? They guy just needs to move his feet and keep his arms straight up. He’s got the athleticism to be a good defender. But sometimes slowing down is better than speeding up.) Without Spencer at the high post working with Beno, the offense turned into a lot of one-on-one play, the turnovers mounted as players started trying to do too much instead of just taking what the defense was giving.

I didn’t’ like PW’s rotations at all last night – especially in the 2nd half.

by Kusian on Mar 23, 2010 8:45 AM PDT reply actions  

You have to understand that Paul Westphal's hand was a bit forced when it came to rotations last night

with all the bigs in foul trouble. Our starting frontcourt of Spencer, Landry and Donte had more fouls than all of Memphis last night. JT added 5 more.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 23, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're right

Westphal was backed into a corner so far as rotations go. He was limited by the number of guards to chose from with Tyreke out. So, Beno and Garcia had to play a lot of minutes on a back to back, with little rest. As you point out, his starting front court and JT had a lot of fouls. I am not sure how much that was due to our guys actually fouling or whether the refs went out of their way to call fouls on them. For a period of time, the refs were calling fouls on our guys right and left, while Memphis was busy adding on to their score with free throws.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fouls and

well Cisco is my guy but this one had had bad Cisco’s fingerprints all over it – then it got away.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 23, 2010 9:16 AM PDT reply actions  

some nights +/- really is a good measure of how you played

it was for Cisco last night

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 23, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cisco couldn't hit anything last night

And made some bonehead plays down the stretch.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 23, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

This.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone looks bad when they shoot badly

and Cisco gets much, much worse when things are going badly so he tries to do too much.

Cisco is one of those classic guys that is better playing with the starters than the bench. When he’s with the starters, he’s the 4th or so option and only has to make the obvious plays, which by and large he’s pretty good at (everyone has bad shooting nights though).

Cisco gets in trouble when he looks around at who he’s playing with and sees he’s the 1st or 2nd option or when he’s the 4th option, but 1-3 don’t have it going and he tries to step up.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is an excellent way to put it. I'd go a step further and say he's an ideal 5th option as a starter.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd prefer Udoka as the 5th option as a starter over Cisco

because of Udoka’s defense. I know Cisco hustles and defends. But Udoka has been fantastic. At StR night it really surprised me how fun he is to watch. He was always in the mix on defense and fighting bigger guys for boards. I wish he’d get better at stroking that corner three that he’s supposed to be good at. Cisco obviously shoots better, but he’s still prone to make the same boneheaded plays he did as a rookie. Plus, Udoka’s way cheaper. Hopefully the Kings resign him on the cheap for a couple years.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I don't know about Udoka. But his veteran presence is certainly worthwhile.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I see Cisco as our future Udoka

If that makes sense. Solid veteran and leader who defends and can shoot when open.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Mar 23, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

and....piling on

will move the ball along to where its supposed to go

can handle the ball a little

doesn’t have his ego wrapped up in how many shots he gets

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cisco's only three years younger than Udoka

and $5 million more a year. I’d prefer to dump Cisco and keep the aging Udoka. Cisco would be great on a contending team

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Udoka is a bad 5th option because he doesn't make wide open shots

and he’s 32 or 33? years old.

I am really glad he’s a King this year, I’d be plenty happy to see him suiting up next year, but a team has to be pretty special offensively to play a guy that can be almost completely ignored on offense, and I don’t think we’re in any danger of having 4 other offensive players that are that good on the floor at the same time.

I really like Udoka, but he’s not an NBA starter in almost any situation in my mind.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

He is a perfect 9th or 10th man, who can play depending on the situation, but he is not a shooter, not a passer, and not a ball handler.

by MichaelMack on Mar 23, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

My point

is that the extra things Cisco brings, despite only being 3 years younger, is not worth the extra $5 million he makes a year

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Three years is a long time

when arguably they are three of the peak years in a basketball players career 29-32.

Cisco’s contract has negative value right now, you’d have to take something back that’s bad in order to move him. We agree Cisco is a better player right now, correct?

So the options are:

a) play the player that is better and pay him the contract he has

b) get rid of Cisco to make a spot for a guy that will be 33 to start next year, who’s worse, and have to take something bad back from someone else so we can spend the difference between Cisco’s deal and whatever we had to take back.

That seems like an awful lot of machinations for the right to play a guy that’s older and worse just so we can free up $2 – $3 mil a year for the next few years,

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 23, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't change what he's making v

So I get Grasul’s point. If he’s the better player, and he can’t be easily dealt, and he’s three years younger…well that makes the decision pretty easy.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Mar 23, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you are being a little unfair

this was supposed to be Cisco’s year. He had a much better year last year than the previous years. He limited his mistakes dramaticly last season. An unfortunate accident set him back a lot & he has still played well since his return. He has been a good mentor & leader even in a suit & obviously the front office & the coach like him. I like Udoka too & I would love to have him on the team next year for cheap but I’d rather have Cisco than a Rodmonovic or Marcus Banks. I know their contracts are close to expiring but I was trying to think of a mid-level player teams have been trying to dump forever & those guys popped up.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 23, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I love Cisco!

But if given the chance to dump his salary I would do it

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 23, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love Cisco but he was bad last night. Real bad.

That said last season & this season he has played well. He was due for a bad game.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 23, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

In defense of Noc

PW did what he always does (I’m not complaining) he trys to win with defense. Ime got 18min. and was 1-6 (had to laugh when JR mentioned Ime liking the corner 3), and then when we are losing in the 4th PW goes small and puts in a lot of shooter. Noc was in there to shoot and that’s what he did, so it’s not Noc’s fault.

In my Game Keys, I said I was worried about conditioning. Beno & Cisco played a lot of minutes in back to back games, and Cisco hasn’t been back from his injury that long so I expected his shot to fall off. A note on Beno: in the Clips game he finished the 1st half with 4 assists. His first 6 assists in the 3rd were mostly in transision for easy shots at the rim. Most of the assists in the 4th were from long shots. In the Memphis game we didn’t get any transision easy baskets because we didn’t rebound as well, and we couldn’t get any easy baskets at the rim with Memphis’ big’s defending the basket. So, the only thing left was the long ball and we just aren’t that good of a 3pt shooting team.

I also had Donte as one of my game keys. Gay outscored him by 13, but Donte only took 3 shots. For the most part he defended Gay well, but we needed him to rebound and that falls on him. I’ve said this before, the Kings do not run plays for their SF’s. We set them up at the 3pt arc and feed them the ball. They have to create on their own, and Donte isn’t as good of a ball handler as either Noc or Omri. Until he improves, he needs to be set up in the paint, because he’s a pretty good post up player. If we don’t, only expect defense and an occasional hot streak from the 3.

Spencer did his job on the defensive boards. he had 3 blocks and he held Thabeet to 1 offensive rebound by blocking him out. On Offense, Spencer’s job was to pull his man away rom the basket, and never was really in position to rebound without fouling. And, as usual his foul trouble came when he had to give help on penentration when someone else lost their man.

Finally, the Kings are just starting to run plays for each other. Beno’s pick & pop has always been there, but we added Cisco’s curl into the lane off the screen. Beno had a back screen and even Tyreke has set some picks in recent games. Other than that, it’s Evans orLandry one on one. When we actually see movement off the ball leading to an easy basket, it’s so astounding that you have to ask, why they don’t do that more often.

The truth is we’re not playing good team basketball. The defense has gotten better, but the offense is just now showing signs of life. There are so many needs; a rebounder and a high percentage SG, and better scoring from the SF that I really believe we can’t help but improve through the draft. We’re not as good as we looked against the Clippers and were not as bad as we looked against Memphis. With better team offense we have the personel to compete with them now. We just can’t playing one on one.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 23, 2010 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Good point on Donte. His performance really angered me last night.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Donté's lack of production and unspectacular defense

had Dominic McGuire in the game a few times. I was surprised. I was expecting him to be an Italian/Irish Catholic choir boy type, maybe Scalabrine’s cousin.

McGuire is a heck of an athlete but not much of a ball player. On offense he makes Brockman look like Jamal Crawford.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 23, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

On the offense if Beno could not create the game plan

was get the ball to Landry on the left wing and give him room. It changed a bit with Spencer in there but those seemed to be the three plays on offense.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 23, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Donte just had an off night.

I wouldn’t write him off just yet.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Donte's 2 baskets were the game opening alley-oop and another play ran for him.

Donte’s defense on Gay was as good as it can get, most of the time. Donte had a hand in his face, but Gay was making remarkable high fade away jumpers, untill Donte got his 2nd foul and McGuire came in.

I think the turning point in the game was with 5 mins. left in the 1st half. The Kings were leading by 14 and Memphis went small. The Kings finally had an advantage at the rim, but continued to take jumpers and they weren’t making them. That has to fall on the coaches and the PG. Landry & Hawes should have had the ball on every possession down in the blocks. And, we almost ended up going into half time behind when we could have been up 20. One of my biggest complaints about PW is he always matches up to what the other coach puts on the floor, instead of going with our strengths and forcing the other coach to match up with us. This time he didn’t match up, but we also didn’t take advantage of the mismatch when they put Darrell Arthur at Center.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 23, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

And

There smaller and quicker line up allow their offense to pick up the pace and for them to score more points on us. They had to either play big and dominate the paint or go smaller to shut down the other team’s offense. They did neither for way too long.

Ultimately, they went smaller and faster to start a back and forth battle into the Third Quarter, but ultimately couldn’t sustain that pace and a lot of it was due to the lack of depth at the guard level.

Pookey liked to blame it on our guys running out of steam due to the mid-part of the game and I get that. He is partly correct because really we just don’t have enough small guys to go against another team when they play a lot of small ball. Our guys can’t keep up the pace while to the other, deeper teams, can rotate in a lot more smaller players.

If other teams see this weakness we can expect them to go small on us every game that Tyreke is out.

by MustangMBS on Mar 23, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty accurate assessment

But we know that trading away Martin and Sergio was going to leave a hole in the backcourt, for the remainder of this season. And, when Tyreke comes back on Fri we’ll be back to at least reasonable strength. But, we still have a major weakness as far a jumpshooting and ball handling untill we add personel.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 23, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

And who do you suggest that the Kings pick up?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stephon Marbury

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Mar 23, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Go to hell. Find a handbasket and shoot a couple of RPG's at yourself too. Then go to hell again.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought you liked Stephon...

Ed has been saying he is your favorite player

by MustangMBS on Mar 23, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not him

Pookey loves Stevie Franchise. That’s his dude right there

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Mar 23, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Stephon Marbury half as much as I like Rajon Rondo.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's saying something

I guess I suggested the right guy

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Mar 23, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Got it now.

Pookey only likes Stephon somewhat, but must really like Rajon. Twice as much likey isn’t too bad. I would not have thought him Pookey’s type, but his stats are great on that loser team.

by MustangMBS on Mar 24, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Latrell Sprewell then?

Bonzi Wells?

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Mar 23, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

The game with Memphis really showed what a hole we have in the backcourt.

Westphal had few options with Martin and Sergio gone. He ran Beno and Cisco until “the wheels came off.” There is a hole that needs to be filled.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

The hole came cuz Tyreke wasn't there. Not because Kevin & Sergio were gone.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 23, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I totally agree.

Even with Tyreke we have holes. None of the guards do a good job setting up the frontline for easy baskets on a regular basis. Tyreke doesn’t have the outside shot yet and Cisco has poor ball-handling and doesn’t create his own shot. And, I don’t think any of them are truly great defenders yet.

As to your earlier question “Who should the Kings pick-up?” Well that would depend on how quickly Evans improves his outside jumper, and what we do in the draft. If we end up 7-10 in the lottery the best player available might be Henry and GP would decide it for us.

I do think we could still use better defense and shooting at the 2. Playing Ime just kills the offense, and Cisco gets a lot of blocks from behind because he gets beat too much. Then he get angry and takes himself out of the game. If we could find a good defender who shoots +37% from three to start at the 2, I’d jump on him. Make Beno the backup 1/2 and Cisco the 3rd backup at the 2.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 23, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's fair

But Sergio and Kevin do much in that regard (other than Jump shooting—which I don’t really consider to be an issue at the moment).

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 24, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

don't do much^

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 24, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is a bit of a read herring. Isn't it?

Tyreke is out injured and the point was that with him injured we would not have a hole if we still had another guard. We just don’t have enough small dudes.

by MustangMBS on Mar 24, 2010 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I cant stand

Donte’s lack of ability to get a rebound, it literally drives me crazy.

by MichaelMack on Mar 23, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I knew I'd at least have one fan with that one.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 23, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

You say good things about Noce, you got me and chapuforyou...

And you know chapuforyou’s more rabid than 1,000,000,000 ordinary fans.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Mar 24, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thoughts

It think last night shows that without Evans the Kings are a team of complementary players who can’t take over a game with there skills. Thats why the Grizz took on Randolph who had a history as a nutcase but has talent

Greene can be maddening in that he shows glimpses of talent and that he is figuring it out (same can be said for Hawes too I guess), then he goes AWOL. Maybe Donte will never get it and be another Stromile Swift, great athlete who couldn’t figure it out. Is it a case of finding a role in the league of what you can do, like Mikki Moore who has been mentioned on here of late, an energy guy off the bench who could block shots, play D and fill the lanes on a break (that and playing with Jason Kidd really helped him get that deal with the Kings).

I think Jason Thompson started out so well for the Kings with his energy and rebounding, I think there were thoughts of the next Otis Thorpe. I think he has found out the league adapts to what you can and can’t do. I wonder if his future will be the big guy off the bench who can play D and bang and has a limited offensive game.

Cisco may have all the intangibles, good locker room guy, but it seems for every good play its followed by one that is equally horrific

by Murf on Mar 23, 2010 11:51 AM PDT reply actions  

one more think

Couldn’t you consider Beno’s performance partly due to the fact that he was being “guarded” (and I use that word in the loosest sense) by Baron Davis who is inclined to mail it on more often than not

by Murf on Mar 23, 2010 12:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Beno had a good game last night as well.

Unless 18 & 10 aren’t considered good. (Or was it 20 & 10. Either way, those a very good numbers.)

by Kusian on Mar 23, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I went to the game last night and I like to think myself a calm guy but I was up and yelling at the refereeing

Rodney Mott #71 just killed the Kings the first three quarters and Joey Crawford followed through in the last 12 minutes. The disparity was embarassing and upsetting. It changed the whole game. JT had 5 quick fouls, and if it weren’t for the fact that the Griz were missing so many FT the score would have been much worse. That the Kings could have the game at 80-80 despite this disadvantage speaks well to the players and coaching staff tenacity.

The lows: Cisco was out there too much but his replacements were equally ineffective – Donté was invisible, Omri is trying but not doing. Ime is a beast, if the world were fair he would have a reliable jump shot, it isn’t, he doesn’t.. Noce is a terror – I was surprised Rudy Gay didn’t turn around and smack him. I like Noce on the Kings because I would hate the guy if they played against him.

The highs: Landry is smooth and strong. TZ better describes his patient, smart game. Beno’s stop and pop in the midrange is spectacular. Spencer has a good grasp of the game but not on how to best assert himself. He handles the offensive well but has not made the connection between when and where and how. Defensively his effort is there, he seems to be following coaching but athletically he is limited. In regards to last night, he defended well and was called for breathing wrong.

The game came down to OJ Mayo scoring ten straight, assisting on another and the Kings going O fer. Also the Grizz just out sized the Kings. Thabeet was not Thabust last night. He is slow. He tries to block everything and is often out of plays but his height had him alter a few shots and his length was good for some alleys (he ddn’t oop) and some boards. His hips were about 3-4 inches higher than Spencers’. The guy has a wide torso and shoulders, he is all arms and legs and his legs are thick. He still looks like a project but less so. He is so far more advanced than Hassan Whiteside…( a bit of a poke at lttg there).

Yes, I would not be surprised if the Tyreke-less Kings struggled and lost to the Nyets.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 23, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

I am so glad you said something...
Rodney Mott #71 just killed the Kings the first three quarters and Joey Crawford followed through in the last 12 minutes. The disparity was embarassing and upsetting. It changed the whole game. JT had 5 quick fouls, and if it weren’t for the fact that the Griz were missing so many FT the score would have been much worse. That the Kings could have the game at 80-80 despite this disadvantage speaks well to the players and coaching staff tenacity.

This really p*ssed me off. I agree with you that it changed the whole game. I think people aren’t talking about it so much because Mayo came on so strong at the end, that the officiating became a moot point. I have to wonder, if all those fouls had not been called against the Kings, if the game might have had a different outcome. It was like the air just came out of the balloon when the refs were calling all those fouls and Memphis got all those FTs.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 23, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

JT needs another year, and Udoka is a brick.

I love Udoka’s work on D and boards, but he can’t shoot to save his life. Cisco is the way. Udoka is bench play. JT probably needs one more year to see if he improves, but it’s not looking great.

by amonk81 on Mar 23, 2010 1:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Seems like Kings might be better off getting a good 3 in the draft if they can and get a FA big.

If the Kings get a top 5 or 6 pick, I’d rather they get Johnson from the Cuse, and plug him in at three. Big men take a long time to grow, as we’ve seen, and who’s worth it after Favors and Cousins?

by amonk81 on Mar 23, 2010 1:15 PM PDT reply actions  

"Can't Hold the Mayo, So the Kings are Toast"

God I can’t even stand to look at the Bee’s sportspage anymore. I’m personally offended they allow a F#ker fan to be the paper’s writer for the kings.

by TheFifthMookie on Mar 23, 2010 1:49 PM PDT reply actions  

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