Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes - A Closer look at our Bigs

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 10:33 AM PDT

Having watched the progression of the young Kings team this season I have formulated some opinions regarding our strengths and weaknesses and was specifically interested in how the development of our two key young bigs--namely Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson have improved since being drafted.

We are all elated with the immediate impact Tyreke Evans, Omri Casspi and Jon Brockman have had on our club and have high hopes the addition of Carl Landry makes our team better and deeper going forward. In contrast there have been a plethora of mixed feedback on JT and Hawes and I wanted to delve into some of these claims and serve up a topic of discussion that should illicit some spirited feedback from the STR populous.

In order to provide some context to some potential conclusions some of us have made regarding these two bigs, I have included some hopefully meaningful stats as a prelude. It should be noted these stats do not include games from this weekend.

Here is how our bigs stack up against the league for rebounding:

Name - Ranking + Rebounds per game avg / Ranking + Rebounds per 48 minutes

Jason Thompson - 31st 8.3 / 71st 13.0

Spencer Hawes - 66th 6.1 / 124th 10.9

Carl Landry - 75th 5.7 / 168th 9.3

Jon Brockman - 125th 4.6 / 16th 16.1

Here is how our bigs rank in terms of Double Doubles:

Name - Ranking + Number of Double Doubles

Jason Thompson - Tied for 30th with 20

Spencer Hawes - Tied for 54th with 9

Carl Landry - Tied for 74th with 6

Here is how are bigs rank in terms of Blocks Per Game

Name - Ranking by Position + Number of Blocks per game avg.

Jason Thompson -Tied for 20th amongst Forwards at 1.0 per game

Spencer Hawes - Tied for 23rd amongst Centers at 1.2 per game

Kings Record 2010 Season Stats based on Jason Thompson's Performance:

11 to 14 rebounds -- 8 - 5

7 - 10 rebounds -- 7 - 21

22 or more points -- 5 - 1

15 - 21 points scored -- 5 - 12

DBL DBL -- 10 - 10

3 or more assists -- 5 - 10

5 or more fouls -- 6 - 18 (1 - 6 when he fouls out)

Possible Conclusions: While nothing can be absolutely certain by looking at these stats in isolation it appears that JT's value as a go to scorer may give the Kings the highest probability of winning. I don't have enough recollection on how much the Kings have tried to create for JT especially early on but perhaps this is something that can be quickly improved upon for next season.

Another interesting observation is the Kings record when JT is a distributor. With 3 or more assists the record is 5 - 10, which leads me to believe that the Kings may never be effective utilizing JT in a Princeton offense. His ability to hit the cutter or pass out of a double team or fake his man up and dish to another King on the interior may be hard skills for him to develop despite his obvious athletic ability. We were spoiled with C-Webb on the elbow initiating the offense and effectively setting up Bibby for a Pick n Pop or finding a Christie open on the wing. Even when C-Webb was on the low block he was such an effective passer.

The no-brainer observation is fouls. When JT loads up the Kings lose, flat out. He has to be smarter down low and learn to hold position with his lower trunk versus trying to arm his way to stay in front of his man and quit reaching out when he goes up to contest a shot.

I hope JT can take a page out of Carl Landry's book. Offensive rebounding is probably the quickest improvement area that JT should be able to improve upon. He has the length, the hops and size to be a above average offensive rebounder and if he can be more like Landry in this area, the Kings are a much better team.

Jason Thompson
Game Log | Splits

Breakdown Per Game Per 40 Minutes Totals

Basic Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	GS	Min	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	OR	DR	TR	AST	STL	TO	Blk	PF	PTS
Jason Thompson	2009	SAC	PF	82	56	28.0	4.3	8.7	49.7	0.0	0.1	0.0	2.4	3.5	69.2	2.9	4.5	7.4	1.1	0.6	1.8	0.7	3.8	11.1
Jason Thompson	2010	SAC	C	64	48	30.8	4.8	10.3	46.5	0.0	0.1	0.0	2.7	3.8	70.8	2.9	5.4	8.3	1.6	0.5	1.9	1.0	3.8	12.3

Advanced Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	USG	TS%	%Ast	AR	TOR	ORR	DRR	TRR	EFF	WS	AWS	PER	APER
Jason Thompson	2009	SAC	PF	82	28.0	19.29	54.0	63.2	8.60	13.50	11.8	19.0	15.4	13.65	5.79	3.24	13.91	13.35
Jason Thompson	2010	SAC	C	64	30.8	19.90	51.2	67.1	10.57	12.19	10.7	20.1	15.3	15.22	6.38	3.57	14.22	13.36

Scoring Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	FG%	3P%	FT%	eFG%	TS%	%Ast	Blkd	%Blkd	And1	And1%	FTR	PTS
Jason Thompson	2009	SAC	PF	82	28.0	49.7	0.0	69.2	49.7	54.0	63.2	0.90	10.3	0.24	2.8	0.40	11.1
Jason Thompson	2010	SAC	C	64	30.8	46.5	0.0	70.8	46.5	51.2	67.1	0.92	8.9	0.48	4.7	0.37	12.3

Shot Locations	At Rim	<10 Feet	10-15 Feet	16-23 Feet	Threes

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	eFG%	%As
Jason Thompson	2009	SAC	PF	82	28.0	2.7	4.4	62.0	64.3	0.7	1.9	36.0	41.1	0.2	0.7	37.0	50.0	0.7	1.7	41.0	85.7	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0
Jason Thompson	2010	SAC	C	64	30.8	2.3	3.7	60.3	61.1	1.0	2.4	43.2	55.2	0.3	1.0	32.3	66.7	1.2	3.0	38.0	89.3	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0

Passing Stats	Assists Leading To:

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	AST	AST+	AR	TOR	TO	A:T	At Rim	<10 Ft	10-15 Ft	16-23 Ft	2FG	3FG
Jason Thompson	2009	SAC	PF	82	28.0	1.1	1.3	8.60	13.50	1.8	0.64	0.4	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.7	0.4
Jason Thompson	2010	SAC	C	64	30.8	1.6	1.9	10.57	12.19	1.9	0.87	0.6	0.1	0.0	0.5	1.2	0.4

Areas that JT has improved this year include: points per game, defensive rebounding, free throws, blocks and assists.

Areas that still need improvement include: Offensive rebounding, Fouls, Field goal percentage (especially outside of 10 feet) and turnovers.

Kings Record 2010 Season Stats based on Spencer Hawes' Performance:

11 - 14 rebounds -- 4 - 3

7 - 10 rebounds -- 9 - 14

10 or more rebounds -- 7 - 4

22 or more points scored -- 0 - 4

15 - 21 points scored -- 8 - 2

DBL DBL -- 5 - 4

3 or more assists -- 5 - 19

5 or more fouls -- 5 - 3 (1 - 0 when he fouls out)

Possible Conclusions: Again nothing is finite looking merely at stats but it is very interesting that the Kings record improves when JT scores in the 20s but not Spencer. Surprisingly when Spencer is leading the game in points the Kings don't win. The best combination seems to be when Spencer garners about 18 points and 11 boards. Spencer will likely miss a few offensive rebounds per game because of his ability to stretch his defender out and make a 3 but he still needs to be a better defensive rebounder. I think the biggest culprit seems to be timing and consistent effort.

Statistically his outside shot needs fall more regularly (which declined over last year) to help his team on the offensive glass to force the opposing bigs to come out and defend.

I was also not encouraged to note the Kings record when Spencer distributes the ball. When either Spencer or JT has 3 or more assists, the Kings go 10 - 29, ugh! Spencer too is weak on the pick n roll and although he has shown flashes of being able to pass with some vision it doesn't seem to coexist with scoring and rebounding.

A starting 7 footer in this league should average a lot more double doubles, thus far he has 9.

Spencer Hawes
Game Log | Splits Breakdown Per Game Per 40 Minutes Totals

Basic Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	GS	Min	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	OR	DR	TR	AST	STL	TO	Blk	PF	PTS
Spencer Hawes	2008	SAC	C	71	8	13.1	2.1	4.5	45.9	0.1	0.3	19.0	0.5	0.8	65.5	1.0	2.3	3.2	0.6	0.2	0.8	0.6	1.8	4.7
Spencer Hawes	2009	SAC	C	77	51	29.3	4.8	10.4	46.6	0.5	1.5	34.8	1.2	1.8	66.2	1.9	5.2	7.1	1.9	0.6	2.1	1.2	3.2	11.4
Spencer Hawes	2010	SAC	C	69	56	26.7	4.4	9.3	47.3	0.4	1.2	30.2	1.0	1.5	68.6	2.0	4.1	6.1	2.2	0.4	1.8	1.1	2.8	10.2

Advanced Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	USG	TS%	%Ast	AR	TOR	ORR	DRR	TRR	EFF	WS	AWS	PER	APER
Spencer Hawes	2008	SAC	C	71	13.1	19.22	48.6	60.3	9.92	12.63	8.8	20.2	14.6	5.83	2.15	1.04	11.63	10.82
Spencer Hawes	2009	SAC	C	77	29.3	20.26	50.9	62.5	12.75	13.69	7.6	20.9	14.2	14.00	5.68	3.21	13.01	12.22
Spencer Hawes	2010	SAC	C	69	26.7	19.50	51.2	62.6	15.65	12.85	8.5	17.6	13.0	12.91	5.14	3.24	13.98	13.22

Scoring Stats

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	FG%	3P%	FT%	eFG%	TS%	%Ast	Blkd	%Blkd	And1	And1%	FTR	PTS
Spencer Hawes	2008	SAC	C	71	13.1	45.9	19.0	65.5	46.5	48.6	60.3	0.27	6.0	0.07	1.6	0.18	4.7
Spencer Hawes	2009	SAC	C	77	29.3	46.6	34.8	66.2	49.1	50.9	62.5	0.66	6.4	0.16	1.5	0.17	11.4
Spencer Hawes	2010	SAC	C	69	26.7	47.3	30.2	68.6	49.3	51.2	62.6	0.74	7.9	0.23	2.5	0.16	10.2

Shot Locations	At Rim	<10 Feet	10-15 Feet	16-23 Feet	Threes

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	FG%	%As	M	A	eFG%	%As
Spencer Hawes	2008	SAC	C	71	13.1	0.9	1.5	57.0	62.3	0.4	0.9	46.0	34.5	0.2	0.5	34.0	18.2	0.6	1.3	44.0	85.4	0.1	0.3	28.5	75.0
Spencer Hawes	2009	SAC	C	77	29.3	2.2	3.6	62.0	59.5	0.9	2.2	39.0	43.9	0.4	0.9	44.0	43.8	0.8	2.0	39.0	79.0	0.5	1.5	52.2	95.0
Spencer Hawes	2010	SAC	C	69	26.7	2.1	3.5	60.1	56.8	0.9	1.9	46.6	41.9	0.2	0.6	31.6	41.7	0.9	2.1	41.0	86.4	0.4	1.2	45.3	100.0

Passing Stats	Assists Leading To:

Player Name	Yr	Tm	Pos	GP	Min	AST	AST+	AR	TOR	TO	A:T	At Rim	<10 Ft	10-15 Ft	16-23 Ft	2FG	3FG
Spencer Hawes	2008	SAC	C	71	13.1	0.6	0.7	9.92	12.63	0.8	0.79	0.3	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.5	0.2
Spencer Hawes	2009	SAC	C	77	29.3	1.9	2.2	12.75	13.69	2.1	0.93	0.9	0.1	0.1	0.3	1.4	0.6
Spencer Hawes	2010	SAC	C	69	26.7	2.2	2.4	15.65	12.85	1.8	1.22	1.1	0.2	0.1	0.4	1.8	0.4

Areas that Spencer has improved this year include: Field Goal percentage (mid-range), Assists, Turnovers, Personal Fouls.

Areas that still need improvement include: Rebounding, Field goal percentage (especially at the rim and outside) and blocks.

In summary, it seems almost uncanny how JT and Hawes--essential to our overall success--seem to be our Jeckyll and Hyde, showing moments of great potential only to literally disappear at other times. Their flaws and strengths are antipodes to one another with neither vastly improving overall from the previous year. JT is still young enough to get a lot better and Spencer is probably going to be somewhat better next year but all in all the tandem is near the bottom of the league and without significant improvement and even with Brockman and Landry to support, the Kings will likely not be a playoff contender next year without a starting big joining the rotation next season.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Comments

Nice work

Don’t forget, Spencer is actually younger than JT

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Mar 28, 2010 10:54 AM PDT reply actions

True...

And it takes 4 years for a Center to find his way in this league. Thabeet is actually coming along rather quickly given his stats at the beginning of the year; I just wonder why Spencer cannot become a solid Brad Miller if not a poor man’s Vlade.

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions

His flopping needs alot of work if he wants to get to Vlades level

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Mar 28, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions

I see Vlade coming in as a consultant to help with that...

JT likes to give the fouls away like they are candy versus drawing ’em like Divac.

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions

His pissing and moaning stats are on good track to being a Brad Miller though

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Mar 28, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Would love to see those?

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions

wow, comprehensive view

took a while to read.

Defensively is where the Kings need the biggest improvements. Hawes is too light, Landry solid but average, JT fouls much to often to stay in games.

The draft will most likely address this issue with a “banger” on the way – if not by draft then by FA. If not, look for only a marginal improvement in the standings.

Nice stuff SacHeart.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 28, 2010 3:02 PM PDT reply actions

Nice work.

Again nothing is finite looking merely at stats but it is very interesting that the Kings record improves when JT scores in the 20s but not Spencer. Surprisingly when Spencer is leading the game in points the Kings don’t win.

I thought this was interesting.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 28, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Agree with your comments and thanks for the nod...

Do you think Hawes needs more strength?

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions

he needs to develop an NBA body

bigger legs, stronger core. When, or pessimisticly if, he does, his low post game will improve dramatically as will his rebounding. He is two years away from that, at least.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 28, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions

You can't really develop the body IMO.

You can improve it some, but you can’t develop it. You either got it or you don’t.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 28, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions

for an elite body I agree

for an adequate NBA body, he has the frame to do it, IMO. Anthony Randolph, maybe not.

Funny about those natural gifts: you are either elite fast or you aren’t. You can train to be a faster runner and more efficient but speed is, or isn’t. Many things like that. Singing is another.

Spencer has wide enough shoulders and a thick enough core that weight training should put some pounds on him which would be more useful than preserving his jumping or foot speed abilities.Will he work at it? That is the question.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 28, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree he can improve on his body and get stronger.

But we can all agree he’s never going to be a top flight C. What makes him unusual is his skill and abilities that way. I do think he gives effort and plays hard. He’s improved defensively, but his physical limitations will always be a problem unless there is someone else on the front line who can take that heat off him.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 29, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions

I think Spencer needs those improvements to stay in the league as a avg. starting center.

But I agree he will not become a top ten by getting stronger and he cannot get more athletic. His biggest asset could be passing, can those skills be developed or is it like singing where he will never be a webber or vlade with the ability to set up his teammates at will. It seems Pick n roll is just practice and footwork, but passing requires IQ and vision which maybe cannot be taught.

I really liked when Spencer was drafted thinking he would learn under Miller and become that type of player but stronger and bigger. He is young but I am not seeing it.

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 29, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

M. Gasol

made a pretty significant change to his body and it has helped his game tons. I dont know if you’d call that development, I guess, as he was oversized rather than undersized. But it is change to his body over time due to work that has significant improved his performance.

I think Spence could be in quite a bit better shape.

by DustyG on Mar 30, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions

I applaud any effort or attempt at insight at how JT & Spence can continue to help this team.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 28, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions

I applaud your applause

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Mar 28, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I applaud your applause of pookey's applause

Tyrefic! Hawesome! Casstastic!

by Ball in Cup on Mar 28, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

And I laud your applaud

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Mar 28, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I jeer your cheer

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 28, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

LOL @ u4

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 28, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions

See what you started!

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions

It always ends up my fault by hook or crook.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 28, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh yah, rec'd

Much respect for the research and info

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Mar 28, 2010 6:44 PM PDT reply actions

Thanks 27!

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 28, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions

great read

a lot of info on our bigs and how well they play, rec’d.

"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches

by AkaP on Mar 28, 2010 10:01 PM PDT reply actions

"Stats don't tell the whole story for Spencer"

Here’s an observation/non-stat…How many teams have a starting center who plays fewer 4th qtr minutes than Spencer? Not just blocks…needs to improve D period…and I think Spencer and JT need to spend more time in the weight room in the off season.

by getPGwithbounce on Mar 28, 2010 11:58 PM PDT reply actions

JT

spent a lot of time getting bigger/stronger in the offseason and he was horrible in the summer league. I think he’s strong enough and physical enough already…he needs skill. Spence should do some strengthening tho.

by DustyG on Mar 30, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions

Good work.

The tricky thing about rebs is that you have to play good defense first, so the opponents will actually miss those shots. When an opponent shoots with 40%, we’re bound to rebound well, even if the opponent’s off rebs are relatively high. All I’m saying is we need good gefenders and not just good rebounders (= David Lee).

It would be great to see an analysis between opponent FG% and Kings’ individual rebounding.

by ZenBaller on Mar 29, 2010 5:26 AM PDT reply actions

I see that.

If you are a horrible defender your opponent scores at a higher percentage and subsequently the rebounding opportunities go down.

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 29, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions

It was interesting to see Spencer and Bogut on the floor together,

totally different body types. Regardless how Spencer improves his strength and conditioning, he is never going to look like an athlete. Although he is never going to be a prototypical banger he does need to improve his leg and core strength. I have no idea what his off season conditioning program was other than the comments that Jon Brockman made that Hawes worked hard in the off season.

The ultimate question is if either of these players are going to become good enough to remain starters in the NBA and whether either is a true part of our core going forward. The early returns are not encouraging. I think Tyreke has learned more this season than either Spencer or JT has in their time with the team. I was really shocked by JT’s lack of Bball IQ that I saw at the bucks game. He compensates with his lack of savvy with incredible hustle but it is often not enough. Crafty is a word that is never going to be used in describing JT’s game.

My personal opinion is that the team can’t keep both players. There is not room enough in our front court for two players with such big holes in their games. I don’t think that time and more experience are the total answers. The one conclusion you reached for both players I disagree with is that both players should improve their mid-range shooting. I think the Kings would be better if both players took fewer longer range shots and concentrated on their offensive in the paint to the rim.

As the team moves away from a Princeton style offense I think JT has the better chance of realizing a more limited potential but that if he concentrates on defending at the rim, focuses on rebounding, and emphasizes his offensive game in close, ie, bunnies, layups, dunks, put backs and tip ins he still has a chance to be a valuable player for the Kings.

One more thing: Massive props for working in “antipodes” into your post. Epic dude!!!

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Mar 30, 2010 5:19 PM PDT reply actions

Great Points Blue John...

I think having one project big is enough for us. If we move away from the Princeton Offense then I agree with you to keep JT. If we don’t then I say keep Spencer but definitely not both.

As for mid-range game I just see the percentages being too low. I am looking for more efficiency ala Landry not more shots taken from there if that makes sense. Spencer seems to shoot better from behind the line than 12 feet away.

I am not sure if you have seen the post on Which position we should address in the Draft that I posted but there is a lot of debated sentiment on this very topic.

Thanks for the props on Antipodes.

Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

by SactownheartOChouse on Mar 31, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions

If Tyreke is going to be the heart of the team,

don’t we need to build around him. If he’s main game is finishing at the rim, is a low post offensive center what we need. How well will the Kings do with a PF & Center at scores mostly around the rim. And, clogging up the paint for Evans.

Currently, at rim Landry 71%, JT and Spencer 60%
inside 10 ft Spencer is best
10ft to 15ft Landry is best
16ft to 23ft Spencer is best
3pt range, Spencer is the only big that takes 3’s.

JT only shoots above the league average at the rim
Spencer shoots above the league average inside 10ft and from 16ft to 23ft and is within 2% of the league average at the rim.
Landry shoots above the league average at the rim and from 10ft to 15ft.

So at this time Spencer is the best center and Landry is the best PF to work with Tyreke because they shot well enough to to score inside and outside. So, their man has to stay with them when they move away from the rim, opening up the lane for Evans.

JT gets too much credit for his offensive rebounds because quite a few are off his own misses.

Also, adjusted for 40 minutes, neither JT or Spencer have changed much over last years numbers, under PW’s system, so I don’t see one being better than the other moving away from a motion offense. Both need to improve there game at the rim, but Spencer is far more advanced on the long 2’s and 3’s.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 3, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions