Winning With Something Approximating Defense: Kings 84, Rockets 81
by Ziller on Mar 4, 2010 9:18 AM PST
in Recaps
362 comments
How do you shoot 32 percent and win an NBA game? You keep your opponent from scoring efficiently, you win a ton of offensive rebounds, and you don't turn the ball over.
The Kings shot 32 percent. Thirty-two of 100, in fact. Nice and round. That's a lot of shots! The Kings must have been running, right? Wrong. This was actually a fairly average paced game (91 possessions). But the Kings only turned the ball over nine times in those 91 possession (for a turnover rate of 9.9 percent, which is magnificent) and picked up 24 of the 61 available caroms on offense. That's a nice, fat 39 percent. (It's worth noting that OKC's offensive rebounding against Sacramento Tuesday night was better. The increased number of opportunities in this game masks that.) Six Kings had multiple offensive rebounds, led by Carl Landry and Ime Udoka with five each, and Spencer Hawes with four.
And while several Rockets still ended up with gaudy rebound numbers (18 for Luis Scola, eight each for Kevin Martin and Chase Budinger), Houston struggled to grab its own myriad misses (13 o-boards in 46 opps) and allowed the Kings to get putback attempt after putback attempt. Many of these putback attempts missed, yes, but a chance at two is better than no shot at all, from the Kings' perspective.
So what about the defense?
It was good! I think. It's impossible to tell with this team, because everything is somewhere between frantic and unrushed. The Rockets shot 5-22 from three ... but a number of those (including Aaron Brooks's final attempt) were pretty open. The Rockets shot 15-29 at the rim (51 percent, real low) ... but a number of those could have been Sacramento fouls, or just popped off the rim, a touch of bad fortune. Some of the defense was undeniably good. In particular, Ime Udoka was a veritable Scola stopper in his brief opportunity to match up with the Argentine. Beno Udrih, I think, did good work to make Martin work for his attempts. Landry handled the pick-and-roll really well. Francisco Garcia was mayhem.
But how much is repeatable, dependable? We have been conditioned to believe this team, this general collection of players cannot defend well consistently. For every taste of success (Sunday's Clippers game), we get blown back by failure (the Thunder game). So, maybe this is a cop-out, but the onus is on the Kings to prove this is indeed a new M.O. I'll believe it when I see it last a few games in a row.
***
You can't say Tyreke Evans gives up. Three of 11 at the rim, with five of them getting blocked. One of nine beyond 15 feet. And he's still trying to drive on Shane Battier, still taking 18-footers in the final minutes. I'd be cursing at the play calls (really? a high pick-and-roll that results in an 18-footer?) if I weren't so impressed by Reke's swagger.
***
Udoka shot terribly (3-12), but he might have been the non-Landry M.V.King. His defense was excellent, even as Houston got on a bit of a role. And the rebounding! What a tough dude.
***
The joy ripping through Landry's face the entire game was something to behold. Sometimes, pro team as family is a facade. Not for Landry and his Houston friends. That brotherhood is real, no doubt.
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Well, for one game, the Landry for Martin trade clearly paid off.
Imagine if we didn’t have Landry last night.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
you don't have to imagine
just look at Houston
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Well said...
Totally… I hate to feel this way but it looks like the Rockets got the same Kevin Martin we had. Big numbers but just not able to carry a team over the hump or do something “clutch”. Yeah yeah, I know about the playoff game against the Spurs and the game winner in Seattle a few years ago but when that is all you can remember from a 3 or 4 year career…
by OrangeLazarus on Mar 4, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Just because you can't remember a guy efficiently scoring 20+ a game for really bad Kings teams, doesn't mean those of us paying attention can't.
If that kind of consistency is boring, we could use a lot more boring.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Mar 4, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Kevin’s solid play against Toronto the other night helped them build a 30 point lead and they ended up resting most of their starters in the 4th.
Too bad it wasn’t closer so we could see if Kevin would be “clutch”
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Toronto played without Bosh and Calderon
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure Yao and Ariza missed that one too
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Martin is a great talent, but he was too inconsistent. Injuries and then ineffectiveness this year. Martin can’t make a bad team good, but he can make a good team great.
We just have to hope that Landry sticks around and contributes as much as Martin.
by cubesonice on Mar 4, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Martin can’t make a bad team good, but he can make a good team great.
Rec’d.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That remains to be seen.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
we may get to find out
if Yao is back healthy next year.
Ooohhh burned!!!
Why is everyone so butt hurt whenever someone calls Kevin out for not being clutch? You are saying he is clutch? Besides you said it yourself “Scoring efficiently for really bad Kings teams” Exactly! Really bad Kings teams, Kevin Martin… If he was so great and the scoring so important why weren’t they “somewhat decent” Kings teams? Do you think Kevin is going to get the Rockets into the 8th playoff spot or merely “score efficiently” while the Rockets enter the lottery with us?
What I am driving at here is that I feel we are better off with Landry than we were with Kevin. I also feel that Kevin would be an excellent option for a team that already has a leader like Boston or Cleveland but is just an "efficient scorer’ on young teams without a clear leader.
by OrangeLazarus on Mar 4, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
in my humble opinion
people get defensive about it because there are a lot of haters that are drooling over themselves to trash a player who is by all accounts a hard worker and a good person. I honestly do not see how someone who is a Kings fan and has watched Kings basketball cannot be a fan of Martin, but that is just my opinion. So here goes nothing…
If he was so great and the scoring so important why weren’t they "somewhat decent" Kings teams?
It takes more than one player to make a team. If Kevin is the #1 scoring option on a team, that is probably not going to be a great team. He could however be the 2 or 3 scoring option on a great team. The team success depends a lot on the players around him. By the way, if Landry (i’m already a fan by the way) is the #1 scoring option on a team, that team is not going to be very good either.
Do you think Kevin is going to get the Rockets into the 8th playoff spot or merely "score efficiently" while the Rockets enter the lottery with us?
They are going to finish exactly where they would have finished with Landry…in a tight race for 9th. There is no shame in that.
by markdog333 on Mar 4, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally Agree
I agree with what are saying… I will even go so far as to say he could be a #1 scoring option on a team with a clear leader in some other area, maybe Orlando?
I don’t hate Kevin, I am just as sentimental as anyone but I don’t think we lost a franchise player or a leader.
by OrangeLazarus on Mar 4, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
This game was basically the exact opposite of the game before in OKC, no?
Weird.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
Welcome to the NBA ASSN.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I firmly believe that 2/3 of good defense is effort
We’ve seen a couple really good defensive outings from these Kings recently, even with you, Ziller, going as far as calling Beno Udrih a defensive yeti. Is this because Paul Westphal finally blessed them with a sprinkle of his magical defense potion? Or has he just gotten them more focused on defense and actually trying? I’d assume the latter, but anyone that can make us Kings fans actually believe Beno Udrih’s contract is pretty fair value must know some magic.
I’ve missed the past few games so I have a question. Has the defensive scheme changed at all? It’s driven me crazy all year to see a bunch of Kings staying around the paint to protect the rim but leave guys wide open for long jumpers and threes. Has that been going on in these games?
www.mancancook.net
Some of the defense
AND some of the ugly offense has to be attributed to Ime’s minutes. Amazing how he can help the team win when he shoots as poorly as he does.
by OrangeLazarus on Mar 4, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
Was there any Kevin Martin interviews?
I wonder how he felt to play his old team? Houston really loved Carl Landry. I hope Sac does the same when Kev comes back to Arco later this season.
I hope they do too
You know what I really love, I really love the Lacoste Sport Sweat suit man. The one that looks like the orange that's the same color as fruit loop orange! Houses like clovers, houses like clovers whatever that man says! Twinkle, Stars, Diamonds, Emeralds. We got every color bruh! It's fu@#in crazy man. This fool walked up to me the other day, and was like blood, where did you get them at yo? What, you made them? I said, man we don't make nothin man! We don't make nothin man. We just make your girl give h%@d. When she sees these on sight. She never thought they come in size twelves man. I wear size twelves man!
oh Arco will give him a big ovation
the only 2 people who won’t are Peaches and Mike Lamb.
by what_the_crap on Mar 4, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
And coolcat
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
I'll clap if I go
and I’ll clap even louder if he goes 3-13 and the Kings win.
It would’t surprise me if some folks here would like Martin to go off in that game and the Rockets to drub the Kings, just to punish the guys who sent him packing.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Believe it ot not, its not ALL about you
I’d love to see KM have a great game against the Kings, and I really love to see him put up awesome numbers for the next 5 years. Amazingly, that has nothing to do with making you (or other anti-KM posters) look wrong. It has to do with me liking KM, and feeling connected to him through his time on the Kings.
Some people gain happiness from watching other do well, while others seem most happy when others do poorly. You and I take very different views at the world.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I've always considered the best games
the ones where athlete A does something awesome, only to lose to athlete B who does something more awesome to seal the victory. Watching someone fail does nothing for me, watching people succeed at doing incredibly hard things is a lot more fun.
by TheFifthMookie on Mar 4, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
The part that gets ignored
Is that many of the Martin supporters here (myself included) like the deal for Landry. But I suppose if you aren’t deriding Kevin on a regular basis, you’re opposed to the trade (CCR statistical analysis 101).
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 4, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
for the simple fact that i’m tired of people who can’t say something positive about Landry and leave it at that.
I'm trying to figure out the point you are trying to make
Spunds like you are saying you are a better person.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I saw both sides
but 27freethrows makes a point of placing himself in the category of gaining happiness from watching others do well.
Some people gain happiness from watching other do well, while others seem most happy when others do poorly. You and I take very different views at the world.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
He was talking about CC.
Had you been around here longer than 2 months, you might recognize this is not the first time CC has done this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Thanks for the heads up.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Truth be known
I was hoping that Landry would have a better game than Kevin Martin. Does that make me a bad person?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Nope.
Makes you a Kings fan.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I hope Kevin has great games against every team, except the Kings
I had no desire to see him do well last night. I also took no pleasure in seeing him struggle. I’m just glad we got the win.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
This.
I always want to see Kevin do well. But I’m a Kings fan first.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I should say I took no special pleasure in seeing him struggle
I did like that he didn’t kill us. I was happy Beno and Cisco defended him well, but I was just as happy with the job Tyreke did on Brooks.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
There must be something about age and experience that makes you sound wise.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Does it make me a dick if I disagree with your first part?
I liked Kevin Martin when he was on the Kings. Now that he’s gone, I don’t give a crap what he does. My attachment to players is directly tied to whether or not their jersey says “Kings” on it.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
That's a valid position
in my book.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
I don't share the position but I, too, agree it's valid.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Does it make you a dick? No, we are just different
I’m suprised that the people wearing the uniform mean nothing to you, but that’s cool if it’s your thing. Do you also have no interest in Webber, Vlade, Christie? What about Bibby or Peja? Maybe Adelman?
I will always care about what they do, because I cheered for them, not just the uniform they wore for a portion of their career.
To each their own. It just seems very short term to only care about who is playing for you at that very minute. Cheers.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
I don't really care about them anymore, no
When they were Kings I loved them. Now that they’re not here anymore, I don’t really care what they do. I don’t wish them to do poorly (unless they end up on the L****s), but I also don’t wish them to do well, especially when they play us. Honestly, the worse Kevin Martin does, the better the trade looks for us, so I think I’d prefer he sucks.
If it helps explain things, I’m an A’s fan.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
LOL, it does help to understand
The way I see it, the trade is done and not coming back. How good (or bad) KM does no longer affect us in any way. How well Landry and everything works for us does. That’s why I will cheer for KM fr the rest of his career. That’s also why I will stand and clap for him when it plays his first game at Arco.
One if my favorite things about Kings fans, is how much we applaud and welcome our ex players. I am reminded if the night Webber’s number was retired. He got all choked up, so I know the fans still meant something to him even when he no longer wore the jersey.
I think we understand eachother though; and just view ex players differently. And I reinforce; you are not a dick (at least not for this reason).
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
I'd applaud the guy's first game back anytime
If I got tickets to the April game, I’d cheer for Martin. I wouldn’t applaud him next year, though.
The fact that the trade is over with is why I have no more connection to Martin. It helps soften the blow of a trade when you divorce your emotions from the traded player as quickly as possible, IMO. Works for me, anyway.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I feel the same way...
I would applaud for him his first game back to show my appreciation for his time on the team. He was my favorite player for a long time. But, I no longer feel that connection to him. I am much more wrapped up in seeing Landry succeed and watching Tyreke and Beno complement each other.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Its ironic that me wanting KM to have a good game, somehow implies that I don't ALSO want Landry to have a good game
It kind of goes back to my post. It will make me happy to see KM do well. He does not have to do better (or worse) than any other player for it to be a good thing.
I like Kevin, therefore I want to see him do well. Not to prove anybody wrong, or to win an argument. Just to see a player I will always feel tied to do well.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen Brother 27!
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I'm not saying that I am a better person
I just cheer for a player for different reasons than CC. I want KM to do well because I like him, not so I can use it as evidence against people who disagree with me.
Now that KM is no longer a King, CC has no reason to hope he doesnt do well. But he still does, so he can come in here and tell other people how wrong they are.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
Thanks for the clarification
I understand.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think that it was obvious from Martin's exit interview on KHTK that he did not want to play with Evans or play with the Kings anymore...
So I think being able to get back a guy like Landry while also shedding crap tons of money will benefit the Kings in the long run.
I have hated some of our big trades immediately after they happen. I thought we didnt get enough for Artest but was proved wrong. And I hated this trade right when it happened, but the Kings are going to be better off in the long run i think. Beno and Tyreke just play a lot better together than Kevin and Tyreke. Landry also seems like he is going to be a consistent inside presence that can make Hawes and Thompson better. It also removes any possibility of the team overpaying for David Lee.
So well done Geoff.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
I like the middle
I disagree with the title of your post, I think that is one interpretation.
I disagree with your ending. The team could definitely still hand a chunk of money to Lee this summer.
I agree with everything between those two points.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Wait a second here...
It also removes any possibility of the team overpaying for David Lee.
I love what Landry has brought to the team but let’s not go making any crazy statements here. Landry is a top tier post scorer and a very good position defender but the rebounding thing has gotten out of hand. For those who want to pat the guy on the back for last nights 10 rebound performance, I would like to point out that there was a whopping 115 missed shots in last nights game. To only grab 5 offensive and 5 defensive out a possible 115 when you play predominately in the post is clearly a major problem. Jason Thompson is one answer to this dilemma, David Lee or Chris Bosh or Okafor now make more sense than ever.
I look at rebounding in the same light that I look at shot blocking or court vision- either you have it or you don’t. There are ways to improve these skills but deep down, John Brockman has a God given talent for knowing where a ball is going to bounce after it hits an orange rim 10 feet off the ground and Carl Landry does not. This doesn’t mean that Landry can’t play 30 minutes of very productive basketball but the Kings need a rebounder or a shot blocker or a rebounding shotblocker to complement both Landry and Hawes for this team to compete for a playoff spot.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Mar 4, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely agree.
Lous Scola had 18 rebounds. Landry could have had at least 12.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
He had ten...
12 vs. 10 is pretty nit-picky, IMO. Everyone is busting a nut over Hawes’ ten rebounds, but you’re disappointed that Landry ONLY put up ten?
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
10 rebounds should not be poo-pooed.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
Although that 22 points was pussy shit. He could’ve easily had 24.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
youre kidding right?
you think that with thompson, landry and hawes the kings are going to sign david lee? if they sign anyone itll be a 7 footer not another power forward. chris bosh and okafor are centers, david lee is not.
there is no way the kings will pay 10 million for a 3rd power forward.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Haven't you guys been listening
We are building through the draft. PW has said it repeatedly. We are following the OKC model. Don’t expect any big free agent signings.
by MustangMBS on Mar 4, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
DeMarcus Cousins, baby!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Mar 4, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
To be fair
I think that Landry may be a rental. He might be seen as cheap and expendable. We will see. I expect it depends on who the best player is in the draft. We will take whoever is best and if that player is a Landry type then don’t expect that we keep him. He will be gone.
fine. as long as they dont drop 10 million a year on david lee i dont care.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Do you actually think
the Kings would trade Kevin Martin for a rental? For all the criticism the guy has taken, he was still our best scorer for last 3 years. It was also said repeatedly the Kings would not give away K-Mart for anyone not a proven young star. Carl Landry was acquired to be a significant piece of our core group moving forward. Not a rental. Only if he can be parlayed into a greater piece (i.e. trade for Bosh) will Landry not be a King for years to come.
Yes, I think so.
I think that if the best player in the draft is of the Landry type with more upside then they don’t likely sign him to a big contract when due.
Good point about acquiring a piece by trading him, but I don’t see big $$ free agency in the cards.
Cheap is good
He might be seen as cheap and expendable.
Kmart was seen as expensive and expendable.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
By you.
Morey is a bright guy- dare I say, even brighter than you or I and he gave up a valuable asset for him.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Actually
By Petrie, Westphal and the Maloofs.
Morey does seem to be a bright guy, but his teams have won as many titles as ours. And Petrie appears to have gotten the better of him in the last deal. I think this will make it two straight.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
No, you are making assumptions.
By Petrie, Westphal and the Maloofs.
Just because these guys approved a trade doesn’t mean that he was over priced or expendable. It could very well mean that GP,PW and BM (Brothers Maloof) liked an offer that freed up cap space/salary and yielded a nice interior player and nothing more.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Giving up a valuable asset for a player doesn't mean that player isn't expensive
All he said was that the Kings saw Martin as expensive and expendable. Which part of his statement were you disagreeing with? He didn’t say anything about Martin’s actual production, just that the Kings saw him as expendable.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
8th in SG PER
in an “off” season.
Dude, if you keep picking at that, it will never heal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Damn, almost forgot -
You are a wacky funster.
Wacky.
Funster.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Talk about a useless stat
Spare me the lectures.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
You so wacky, you funster, you
You are an unbridled, untamed funster, with a mane of wacky funsterness rippling in the breeze.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Mar 4, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
PER is a useless stat?
But cherry picking random minutes per game cmoparisons isnt? Come on man, that sauce is weak. WEAK SAUCE.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Shane Battier's PER is 11.2
And he’s a more valuable player in my opinion than Kevin Martin. Tyreke might be able to offer some insights into that opinion.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah Section
It’s more logical to make one guy statistically accountable for a whole team’s performance, rather than his own.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
IP CHECK!
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I see I struck a chord
Thanks for confirming that suspicion. See you at Sactown Night, “Otis.”
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'll see you in the parking lot after school!
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
"My dad could lick your dad."
“Oh, yeah? Your dad would probably like it!”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
"My dad could lick your dad."
“Oh, yeah? Your dad would probably like it!”
/massages IP conspiracy theory
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Let me elaborate
Kmart became a regular starter in the 2006-2007 season. The Kings played 300 games from that point until he was traded.
Here’s how the Kings did with and without Kmart.
- 2006-07: with Kmart, 32-48; without Kmart, 1-1.
- 2007-08: with Kmart, 30-31; without Kmart, 8-13.
- 2008-09: with Kmart, 12-39; without Kmart, 5-26.
- 2009-10: with Kmart, 4-18; without Kmart, 14-18.
OVERALL: with Kmart, 78-136; without Kmart, 28-58.
With Kmart they were 78-136, a winning percentage of .364.
Without Kmart, they were 28-58, a winning percentage of .326.
Overall they were 106-194, a winning percentage of .353.
If you take the winning percentage when Kmart played and apply it to all 300 games, they would have won an extra 3.3 games if he played in those games.
Less than a game a year. The Kings didn’t need to pay Kevin more than $9 million a year to win one more game a year. And by trading him for Landry, they improved their front court without sacrificing much in the backcourt.
It would be interesting to look at Udrih’s stats in the games Martin played this year and the games he didn’t. I am assuming he played and scored more without Martin in action. Now we have Cisco rounding into playing shape and have Landry an another big in Dorsey, who is an upgrade on Hilton Armstrong. Physical guys who fit the team’s direction.
That’s why Kmart was expendable.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Uhmmm...
It would be interesting to look at Udrih’s stats in the games Martin played this year and the games he didn’t. I am assuming he played and scored more without Martin in action.
How about you look at a lot more than that. How about you start looking at the coaching, other players, and the fact that the team was already having problems. There are so many other factors…
By looking at one data point and attributing causality to one player you ignore so much data and other causes of losing it is just mind blowing.
Your mono-focus on Martin seems to borderline on an obsession of some kind…
Over 3 1/2 seasons
They were essentially the same team with or without Kevin. Even if he did have a great TS%, PER and the other data points that favored his supporters. Those same folks didn’t think much of +/-, win shares, defensive rating and any other stats that did not portray Kevin in a positive light. This is not different.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
I have said it before
Casuality is a tricky beast. People make a career out of investigating casuality and determining which factors have more significance. You want to prove something. Do some factor analysis of all the variables and use all of those variables in a statistical regression on this issue and then see what you find.
My word
That doesn’t sound simplistic enough. It might be a tall order.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Isn’t the whole pro-Kevin argument that he’s the most efficient scorer, therefore he helps the team? That’s more simplistic than what coolcat laid out. At least he crunched some numbers.
“all the variables” isn’t a tall order. It’s an impossible one.
What Coolcat laid out
Was an attempt to prove that Kevin’s appearance on the roster and court either made the team weaker, or his benefit was negligible.
What everyone else is saying is that analyzing wins and losses alone is too simplistic, in that it ignores a myriad of other factors.
And now CCR has basically refuted advanced basketball statistical analysis as a form of voodoo. True Shooting %, WinShares, PER, Roland Ratings…they may not be the end-all, be-all of statistical analysis, but at least they effort additional factors that can tell us who is the better player in a neutral setting.
That’s not to say that CCR’s stats are to be summarily dismissed – they are a piece of analysis that can be useful. But using them as a sole basis for discussion is…I dare say…f#cking stupid.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Win Shares and Roland Ratings
show that Kmart is a below average basketball player.
Maybe you can enlighten us by doing an analysis of all of Kmart’s stats, pro and con, and then use that to render an impartial opinion based on that data.
After you crunch all that data, you are still left with the fact that the Kings had virtually the same record over the past 3 1/2 seasons whether Kmart played or not. And that’s a cold, hard fact, not an opinion.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
Roland Ratings had him at 38th in the league last season, in front of guys like Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams.
Kevin’s Win Shares last season were down due to his missed games. Still, he led the team, while only playing 51 games. In 2007-2008 his Win Shares were by far the highest on the team, and he far outpaced even the great Ron Artest. He easily did the same in 2006-2007 (his best year statistically in Win Shares, at 10.4).
Anyone with a working brain can check these things at Basketball Reference.
So the question is…do you actually look at these stats before you make your posts?
Or should I anticipate your denigration of Win Shares as a statistical tool?
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 4, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Numbers
Roland Ratings had him at 38th in the league last season, in front of guys like Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams.
… while playing only 48% of the team’s minutes, which ranked 131st of the 198 players who qualified.
His Win Shares numbers are actually pretty good: 4th in his draft class behind Howard, Iguodala and Deng. My bad.
Good stats, but minimal impact on the bottom line (winning).
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We look at Tyreke's stats
And they are pretty damn impressive. We see a clear rookie of the year right? But this team is 21-40, and he’s played pretty much every game.
So a conclusion could be made that either Tyreke is the problem (considering his usage rate), or there are a ton of other factors involved in wins and losses than one player’s statistics. Youth and inexperience certainly being one in Tyreke’s case.
There are twelve players on a squad, and normally 8 or 9 of these players impact the outcome of a game every night. I look at the roster we’ve had over the last 3 years and I don’t see much there OUTSIDE of Kevin Martin.
The Kings roster and it’s coaching staff has been in a constant flux over the last 3 seasons. Isn’t there a possibility that this has more to do with the team’s lackluster performance than Kevin Martin?
By the way, are we changing the argument?
… while playing only 48% of the team’s minutes, which ranked 131st of the 198 players who qualified.
Durability is certainly an issue for Kevin…but aren’t you saying here that the team would have been better with Kevin Martin on the court more often?
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 4, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I think the argument remains the same
Kevin Martin is an oft-injured player with good offensive numbers when he plays, poor defensive numbers and minimal impact on whether the Kings win or lose historically (and a clearly negative inpact this season), all the while commanding the top salary for a rebuilding team. This he was expendable, particularly when we had the opportunity to get a solid, improvintg player who could address our frontline problems.
But you’re right, Kevin did have a very good season in 2006-2007. Too bad it’s now 2009-2010.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Here is the real problem
This I would agree with:
Kevin Martin is an oft-injured player with good offensive numbers when he plays, poor defensive numbers
And this:
all the while commanding the top salary for a rebuilding team
But the following point is pretty clearly refuted by advanced statistical analysis:
and minimal impact on whether the Kings win or lose historically (and a clearly negative inpact this season)
Here’s my primary objection to your analysis. You show what the record of the Kings is with and without Kevin Martin. The fact that the team’s record is better without Kevin on the floor is proof (in your eyes) that the team is better without Kevin Martin on the floor. No other statistical analysis is required…no need to look at schedules, rotations, other injuries, etc.
I’m theorizing that the team would have equalled or bettered their record if Kevin had not been injured and played those games.
I’ve presented data to back up my argument. So go ahead, prove me wrong.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
We're actually agreeing
Here’s my primary objection to your analysis. You show what the record of the Kings is with and without Kevin Martin. The fact that the team’s record is better without Kevin on the floor is proof (in your eyes) that the team is better without Kevin Martin on the floor.
Not at all. In fact, they were slightly better with Kevin playing than not playing – one game a year – better, and I stated that. So now you are trying to twist around what I said.
I’m not sure why this is so hard to grasp. The bottom line is that Kevin wasn’t much of an upgrade as an overall basketball player than the guys who replaced him when he was out: primarily Salmons, Garcia and Udrih prior to this season and Tyreke, Udrih, Casspi, Donte, Ime and Garcia this season (apologies if I left somebody out). The team reacted with youthful energy this season, and in prior years Salmons and Garcia were better defenders and Udrih added some ballhandling skills. The team coped and made do with what they had, and since they weren’t very good anyway, there wasn’t far to fall.
With his contract he became expendable. The guys replacing him contribute just about as much to the Kings as he does.
I’m theorizing that the team would have equalled or bettered their record if Kevin had not been injured and played those games.
I’ve presented data to back up my argument. So go ahead, prove me wrong.
And I’m agreeing that the Kings during that 3 1/2-year stretch were slightly better with Kevin and would have equallled or bettered their record if Kevin hadn’t been injured and had played those games. But slightly better and making almost $10 million a year on a rebuilding team isn’t good enough, particularly when you can upgrade a weakness and compensate for his loss with solid backcourt players.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
I have no problem with this analysis
It seems ccr’s point is not that the Kings were worse with Martin…it’s that they were better, but not better ENOUGH. I think that’s a fair point.
As for Win Shares, I love advanced stats, but this seems like the kind of stat that no one completely understands unless they’ve read the Dean Oliver book. I tried to figure it out, and it still doesn’t make a ton of sense. How does the league average pace have any impact on how much a player helps his particular team win? It’s marginal in reference to HIS team, not to ALL the teams. I don’t quite get it, so maybe I shouldn’t argue on that point. Doesn’t it seem like it’d make sense to just use the difference between ORtg and DRtg? Kevin Martin last year had an ORtg of 115, but a DRtg of 117. Doesn’t that mean he gave up more points by being on the floor than he made up on the offensive end? Or am I again screwing up the stats?
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
I hate responding to myself, but...
…can someone elaborate on why it doesn’t work to just use the difference between ORtg and DRtg to determine how valuable a player is? I’m still not current on advanced basketball stats, and would like to understand. Thanks.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 5, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Correllation
So win shares has minimal impact on winning? Does this imply that there would be no correlation? Making it a moot point. You were just using it to support your argument right?
And now that his… win share percentage is good… it has a minimal impact on the bottom line, “winning”???. Color me confused.
The switcharoo here and conflicting rationale is amazing.
Bé foréwarnéd: I am a mémbér of StR Groupthink méntality.
by CAB on Mar 4, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
I think another issue
That came into play was the declining production since that breakout 2006-2007 season. Win shares down the last two seasons and on track to be down for a third straight season this year, with the numbers even worse than during last season’s 17-win campaign
It’s also worth noting that most of that win share total comes from the offensive numbers (26.0 vs. 5.6 career, 1.6 vs. 0.3 this season), and the team was clearly looking for more than he was willing or able to give on that end of the floor.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
There are three kinds of lies
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. What you present is not a cold hard fact. It isn’t anywhere close. It is invalid statistics that have been selectively used to support an biased opinion. Yes, that makes it worse than a damned lie.
Funny
I just checked the expanded statistics for 2006-2007, and Kevin was 16th in the NBA in Win Shares:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2007_leaders.html
That appears to be in your 3.5 year criteria for him being a productive player for the Kings. So you may want to shorten your requirements a season or two.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 4, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
That was in my window
and I think you made a pretty good point: Kevin has been hurt so much you have to go back three seasons to find the one year he played more than 62 games and was a true stats leader. And even when he did play, his impact on the Kings winning was close to nil.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
See, that's the problem with many of your arguments
And even when he did play, his impact on the Kings winning was close to nil.
His impact was much higher than you give him credit for. The team’s win total wasn’t where you would like it to be, but the statistics seem to show that the win totals could have been much worse without him.
You seem to think the number of Kings wins while Kevin was on the roster was the absolute floor. Clearly, that’s not true.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Bottom line
The Kings win totals weren’t much worse without him, no matter how you want to spin it. They “could have been,” but in reality they weren’t.
Even now, you have Kevin’s minutes being replaced by Beno, Cisco and Udoka. Are we really worse off?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Bottom line
The Kings win totals might have been much better with him, no matter how you want to spin it.
Even now, you have Kevin’s minutes being replaced by Beno, Cisco and Udoka. Are we really worse off?
Well gee…that’s really hard to say. Because there’s a piece we got back in the deal…you’ve heard of Carl Landry right?
I’d say at that particular position, we are worse off from a talent standpoint.
Whether the team is worse off as a whole won’t be answered until we see what Petrie gets with the cap space and how much of an improvement Landry is in the post over the frontcourt players we had on the roster prior to the trade.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Bloodied, blue and CC is still spinning his web of deceit.
CC- That car is a piece of shit.
Otis- No, it has won the JD Power #1 ranking 3 years in a row.
CC- I meant that it is slow.
Otis- Actually, it is the fastest 0-60 car in it’s class.
CC- I meant that the color is stupid and it doesn’t have a tape deck.
Otis- Well, a national study says that the color in question is the favorite color of everyone…every where and tape decks went out in the 90’s- the car has a 6 disc changer and built in MP3 player.
CC- Wait a second, did you think I meant that car, I was talking about the other one next to it.
Otis- Same car, same color.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Mar 4, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
haha perfect
it’s quite an entertaining argument, though.
by what_the_crap on Mar 4, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
I'll simplify it for you
Martin = Beno + Garcia
Martin < Beno + Garcia + Landry + $6-7 million
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Well
That’s a much different argument than how we started on this whole thing. Well done.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I tell you what
Do some factor analysis of all the variables and use all of those variables in a statistical regression on this issue and then see what you find.
Why don’t you do it instead and show us all how it’s done?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Because you won't respond to facts.
Instead, you will make some snarky remark and avoid the question. Playing devils advocate is fine CC, just bring something to the discussion that has some depth.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
What "facts"
are you talking about that I won’t respond to? I am the one here presenting data.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
And because I am not the one ignoring so much information
You are the one who is focusing on such a limited set of data and just one player and stating that this is the causality that determines the wins and losses of an entire team. That the only data of importance is Kevin Martin’s stats and that there isn’t any other causes that should be examined for how much they might contribute to losing.
You are using this faulty and hugely flawed analysis and that is why it is up to you to provide a better one. I am not the person who is dismissing variables and who sets of information. You are. I am not the one who seems to choose some data and then throw out what I don’t like or what doesn’t help prove my point. You are.
I am providing a critique of how and what you are doing and pointing out why it is inherently invalid. You aren’t able to counter that because you can’t really argue that every other player on the team, the coaching staff, and all the other factor can be ignored. There is no way that any argument can be made that Kevin Martin is the sole attributable cause of the Kings losing or winning.
So, instead you want to try and turn that back on me? That is some lame ass shit.
What's even more lame than "flawed" data
is getting a lame lecture from someone with NO data. Put up or shut up.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to the Kevin Martin debates Wally.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
i just didn't expect them to continue on and on and on and on ...
and on and on and on ….
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Welcome to StR Wally.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
word,
I used to really read every post, but I find myself Skimming more and more.. Its the same thing over and over again.
It was easier when we only had 20-30 posts
I still remember the chalupa celebration when a game thread would reach 100 posts.
Of course that was before StR was even on SB Nation
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Did I miss this?
Damn!
Oh well, sorry to bail for work but it was an interesting read.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
StR has always been on SBN.......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I dont think thats true
When StR came over we all had to re-sign up and everything. I remember totally stalling and not signing up again for a few months. Is my memory totally off? Am I high?
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
We did have to resign up
but that may have been for SBN 2.0. When they switched over to the new format.
Remember the old “Diaries” that are now FanPosts.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 5, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
TZ's old blog was Sac Kings Blog foolio. That was on blogger. There is no way that "Blogger" is part of SBN or vice versa.
Proof. Kfan is right as well. You’re remembering the switch from SBN 1.0 to SBN 2.0. It’s been almost 2 years on the 2.0 version. I don’t think any of us want to go back.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Landry is a keeper Mustang-
He’s just not a starter. If the Kings have Carl Landry as their first big off the bench for the next 5 years, they are going to be a playoff team. He brings a ton to the team, just not as a starter IMO. To win in the playoffs, you have to be able to score in the post. If Landry is part of a big package to land a top tier talent then the Kings need to find another player like him to fill the role of bench post scorer. I see Landry as a piece to a big time play-off contending team along with Evans, Casspi, Thompson- 2010 top ten pick and FA signing and bench players like Hawes, Udrih, Garcia, hell, even Noc. This team is going to be very good. Addition is needed, not subtraction (unless Noc is dealt).
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Mar 4, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Dang...
If Landry is a bench player, that doesn’t say too much about what JT is…
by OrangeLazarus on Mar 4, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, it says nothing about Jason Thompson.
The only reason I (and Rick Adelman) deem Carl Landry a bench player is because he doesn’t rebound effectively enough to be a starter.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Rick Adelman
played him enough in the fourth quarter that he was the fifth best scorer inthe league in the fourth quarter while he was on the Rockets. I doubt he wasn’t starting him because Chuck Hayes is a better players. In my opinion, he just liked the energy he brought off the bench.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
You are right, Chuck Hayes isn't a "better player".
But he is a better defender and rebounder than Landry. What Landry brings is energy and scoring- similar to Bobby Jackson. What he doesn’t bring is a starting caliber rebound rate in the same way that Bobby Jackson didn’t bring a starting quality assist rate.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
It's entirely possible that Landry
could end up being a sixth man for the Kings at some point. But right now that would mean Sean May or Joey Dorsey are starting, so that’s not happening.
I think the other thing to look at is that Landry is showing continued improvement and is just in his third season. He also plays away from the basket a lot, shooting those 18 footers and setting picks out high, so that can hurt his rebounding numbers at times.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Where he shoots the ball has no effect on his defensive rebounding.
I have mentioned this repeatedly, Landry is a horrible defensive rebounder. The Kings have been killed by opponents offensive rebounds since Landry threw on the purple and black.
Also, Landry was instantly installed into the starting line-up along side Jason Thompson when he joined the club. I agree that at this moment, there is no one else to start but Landry and I don’t really know that there is a whole hell of a lot of difference between Hawes and Landry from the defensive/rebounding stand point. I hope that the Kings can add a starting quality front line player via the draft or FA to start with Thompson. Thompson is a very nice #2 big to match with a scoring/rebounder. Landry, for all he does right is more of a great #3.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
there is about 4 inches difference between hawes and landry...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
TWSS
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
In this situation it's not about size but how you use it.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Really depends on the draft.
It might be that he stays long-term. I can see a few scenarios where young drafted talent makes it unlikely though. A very similar talent with more upside coming in the draft would do it. Also, and perhaps more of an issue is if they find a matching Center.
If Landry can’t kick up his rebounding it oculd be a problem. Especially if they don’t get a big monster Center for the low post who can rebound. Having Spencer and Landry play together shows how weak rebounding can be.
I am not saying he won’t stay, just that he might not. Also, I don’t sign him to fat contract if he is just a bench post scorer.
No thanks on JT as a starter
When he can score around the basked consistently and, more importantly, avoid boneheaded fouls and turnovers, then I might be persuaded. Right now, he doesn’t bring enough to take Landry or Hawes out of the starting line up. He certainly won’t start when returning from injury. The offense clearly flows better with Spencer at center.
agreed. right now JT should be first big off the bench.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Boneheaded fouls and turnovers
And he’s a little to spastic at times when he gets the ball deep in the paint.
If JT can clean up these three issues, and add a semblance of a left hand around the basket, he’ll be damn good.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
of coure okc hit the jackpot with durant and also got WAAAAAAAAAAAY more for Ray Allen than the Kings did for Martin
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
don't get me started again
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Green is WAAAAAAAAAAAY more than Carl Landry and 7-8 mill in cap space?
Really? I like Green but he is no where near the interior threat that Landry is and they are equally poor rebounders.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
he was saying that Seattle got more for trading Ray-Ray
than the Kings did for Artest
???????????
Maybe he should have said Artest and not Martin then- either way, he is wrong. The Kings got both Donté Greene and Omri Casspi for a 4 month rental of Artest. Casspi easily matches the production of Jeff Green- look at their rookie numbers and tell me where Green is better.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
i meant ray allen.
the sonics also got delonte west. and who the sonics picked at 5 is irrelevant, that is their bad. however, they still got the #5 pick in the draft out of the trade.
so an over the hill, decling skills ray allen was worth delonte west, the #5 pick in the draft and wallyworld…
kevin martin was worth landry and and expiring. i like landry and the way he plays and the trade is growing on me. other people on the board said he was crap and a rental the kings would love to replace with david stupidface lee
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Ray-Ray was better than Artest.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 4, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Don't be suprised if the Kings play well to end the season
GP might decide it’s time to spend some money to make some money for the franchise. Why get Landry & not draft picks for KM? I believe this FO wants to win & if GP feels a David Lee is the missing piece he will go for him. Especially if we don’t get a Cousins or Favors.
I love beating dead horses.
Uhh we have 4 now
Hawes is a center, Landry is a PF, & Lee is a PF who plays center right now. You keep Brockman or Dorsey but not both unless you trade JT.
I love beating dead horses.
uhhh lee is NOT a center... so you would be splitting the pf minutes between jt, landry and lee
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Bosh is a power forward that plays center
that’s how it is in todays NBA. Quality centers are a rare breed. Why do you think Shaqs old fat ass is still playing. I keep hearing we need this magical, reboundng, shotblocking, 7 footer but the guy either doesn’t exist, is unattainable, or is/will be a huge project that most likely will never be good. Just a waist of time. If you have a chance to get a top flight PF of decent size(atleast 6’9") you get him.
I love beating dead horses.
He exists
His name is DeMarcus Cousins, and he’s a lazy asshole
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Both points stand
In today’s NBA you can live without a Shaq – but if you can get one – oooooh boy.
Watch the other teams hate.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
Hawes and Thompson...
Last time I checked, Hawes measured in at over 7 feet tall and Thompson is 6-11 with size- both adequate size wise to play center in the NBA. The key to the Kings roster IMO is that they have two players who are starting quality players that can play 2 positions- those players being Thompson and Evans. This off-season, the Kings can address the PG or SG position and use Evans at the opposite position. The same can be said for Thompson, he can add 15 lbs and become a more true center or work on agility and stay at the power forward position.
I like a front court of Thompson, Landry and Hawes with bangers like Brockman/Dorsey hanging around but only for injury/junk time. What the JT/Landry/Hawes threesome lack is shot blocking and a second rebounder. Shot blocking is over rated so I will settle for someone that can rebound at an all-star level like Lee. IMO the Kings currently have 1.5 centers and 1.5 power forwards. That could easily be transformed into 2 PF’s (Lee, Landry) and 2 C’s (Thompson and Hawes).
Dream off-season-
FA- Bosh with a back-up plan of Lee.
Draft- Evans Turner.
Realistic off-season?
FA/Trade- DJ Augistine or TJ Ford via trade or a mid-level combo guard.
Draft (Hopefully)- Demarcus Cousins or Derrick Favors.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Augustine could be a good match with Tyreke in the backcourt
Pairing him with a shooter/someone who can create their shot seems to be his best match. Beno has played great with him.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Augustine = TJ Ford.
If the Kings whiff in FA but land a top 5 pick, I could easily see them dealing for either on of these guys. Ford would come for free if the Kings accept his salary. Augustine might take a little bit of value to get but he is younger and doesn’t have the salary or injury concerns.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Why not just keep Beno instead of use valuable assets to get Augustin?
Beno is only 27; it’s not like he’s a washed-up veteran.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
The Kings are going to need another guard.
Beno, Evans and Garcia are all under contract for next year but that’s it on the guard front. If the Kings can get their big through the draft, they should have the cash to land an upgrade back-up/starting quality point that would allow Beno and Evans to play together on a more permanent basis.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I'm fine with giving up money for a guard
Augustin will cost players. Are you willing to give up Donte for Augustin?
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 5, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yes.
Wings are a dime a dozen. Maybe Donté develops and becomes something special but I still see so much immaturity in both his personality and his game. Augustin isn’t blowing it up for the Bobcats but that could just be a Larry Brown issues and nothing more. If the Kings are solid in the post via draft or FA and with Omri, Noc, Garcia all capable of running the 3, I see the Augustin really helping as a 2nd/3rd point guard who can come in an provide similar things that Beno can add.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I probably would too, just wanted to phrase it as a question
Donte’s upside is monstrous, but he has a lot of work to do in terms of understanding his role. Because he doesn’t. At all. STOP DRIBBLING THE BALL DONTE!
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 5, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
No quality player is dime a dozen JJ.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
you really think thompson is a center?
and you really want to pay david lee more than 10 mil a year?
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Chuck Hayes is a starting center.
There are a lot of players starting at center in the NBA that aren’t stereo typical 5’s. Here is the deal that I have with Lee or anyone else that the Kings might have. Is the player coming in better today and for the length of the contract than the player they already have? If the answer is yes then the Kings should try to improve. Now, they have to be cap conscious and all that stuff but David Lee is better today than Landry, Hawes and JT and he is 26. There is no way to guarantee, that any of the Kings current players can match the production of Lee today or in 5 years. Add to this that Lee is an unrestricted FA so the only thing he costs is cap space/salary. We aren’t talking about Lee or Hawes/Landry/Thompson. We are talking about a front line of Lee, Hawes, Landry and Thompson which by my estimation would be play-off caliber.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Lee is a solid player but we're going to have to overpay
There’s more quality big men in 2011 who may come at a better value and help shore up our need for a shot blocker. We can try to pick up a solid big in this year’s draft and if that doesn’t pan out then go to FA route in 2011. I’d rather just let Brockman, who will be dirt cheap, play next year (close to the same per/min stats as lee their rookie seasons so who knows?)
2011 restricted
Horford
Perkins
Noah*
Gasol*
Dalembert – he’’ll be 30 so he’ll cost less, camby still producing well at 36
by ucla06 on Mar 4, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really think that those restricted guys are going to be available?
All of those guys will be retained unless they just sign there tenders and become UFA in 2012. Also, I would like to point out that although those players all have their +’s, Lee is still a better player than almost all of them. Maybe not the defender of a Horford, Perkins, Noah but a better all around player.
I think you are chasing some ghosts here and you definitely are going to over pay for a RFA because you have to make a deal that another team won’t match. Your theory is nice but the reality is much harsher. Add to this that David Lee is 26 and available this off-season. The Kings might not be 2 years away from competing for a playoff spot so why not try to add the piece this year instead of waiting 2 or 3 years for a pipe dream.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
If you're argument is that David Lee makes this team better......
……I’d love to see it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Really? David Lee doesn't make this team better?
Landry does & as much as I like Landry Lee is simply better. Maybe even a lot better.
I love beating dead horses.
Soo tired of seeing David Lee Lovers for the the Kings
I really dont see how he fits into this team. We have Landry at 3 mill. Lee would cost how much? Lee to me isnt that much of an upgrade over landry.. Let someone else OVERPAY him..
If Landry actually rebounder then this point would be valid.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
" Lee to me isnt that much of an upgrade over landry."
Per 48 mins this season Lee is avg 15.1 boards to Landry’s 9.4.
Would YOU pay 10-12 million per year for 5.5 extra rebounds when there’s a new CBA coming up & it doesn’t fix any of your other problems ie Interior Defense?
Lets not forget the New York front line isn’t really known as a rebounding force. Their next best rebounder is Harrington at 5.5 a game. Compare that with Hawes @ 6 and Thompson @ 8.8. I just don’t see how David Lee is an upgrade going forward for the Kings. If were following the OKC mold, then Just do it we shouldn’t do it.
If Jason Thompson was a quality D Board man I wouldn't be hot to trot over the idea that the Kings trade JT for Troy Murphy. Your point JJ?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I think we are alone here jjham
I will love next season when Lee is on our team & everyone loves him & praises Geoff Petrie.
I love beating dead horses.
Lee can't be a King right now.
worry about it in July
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Boo Hoo
do whatever you want.
I’ll worry about it in July.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 4, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
You mean we can talk about the 2013 draft?
There’s a 10th grader I heard is really good.
I love beating dead horses.
I hear LeBron's kid is gonna be a baller
King James II
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Has USC gotten a verbal commitment yet?
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
Not yet
Those will be baby’s first words
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
Dalembert is far from better
& good luck getting those other guys away from their current team.
I love beating dead horses.
not better but will cost less and fill our needs better
per 36/min lee gets 11.2rbs and 0.4 blks a game
per 35/min dalembert gets 13.4 rbs and 2.9 blks a game
A shot blocker can change the whole complexion of a defense and lee will not be scoring 20 pts a game on the kings. In summer of 2011 we should be looking towards the playoffs. If we haven’t drafted a solid big yet at 30 y/o Dalembert would be fine. At most he’ll get a 4 year deal for about avg 7 mil a year.
the only thing lee would cost is at least 10 million a year.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Look, I understand peoples concern with blowing our cap space
or over spending for a player. I get it, but to say a guy who averages 21 & 12 & is one of the best if not thee best rebounders in the league wouldn’t make your team better is ludicrous. If the Kings signed Lee for at or under $10 million that would be a great GREAT aquisition. I hope the same people who are saying no thanks to Lee aren’t the same people who wanted to give Troy Murphy $11 million even for 1 season.
I love beating dead horses.
look...
david lee is a nice player. and if the kings could get him for 5-7 million a year, then fine… but he will cost over 10 million a year for max years. he is not worth that much money/cap space on the kings. he just isnt.
not only that, but if the cba leads to a new diminished salary structure then he would be the equivalent of max money.
he isnt worth what he will command on the open market. plain and simple.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
$5-7 million?
This isn’t a 40 year old Rasheed Wallace or Brandon Bass. I really think you underrate Lee. How many players in this league average 21 & 12 really? This isn’t the David Lee of even last year he has gotten better. He is not just a rebounder/garbage man anymore. He is better than current day Amare or Boozer.
I love beating dead horses.
I will look forward to next season
when GP signs Lee & everyone on this site is saying how much they love Lee & how great Petrie is. Mark my words(if we sign Lee of course)
I love beating dead horses.
If we sign Lee
Do we release Landry? His contract next year is a team option.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
No we trade JT
I don’t understand why everyone thinks Lee & Landry can’t both be on the same team. Landry & JT are on the same team. Sorry to break the news but JT is a power forward & nothing else. Not a SF & not a C. He was terrible at SF last year & he has been terrible this year at center. Atleast Lee has played great at center all year. I don’t believe Lee is a center but atleast he hasn’t sucked at it like JT has.
I love beating dead horses.
Here is where we differ.
Thompson is still a building block IMO, he is just too big, too good of a rebounder and too hard of a worker not to improve. Trade Hawes? Sure, if it makes you better but you can’t have 2 big as primary roll players that don’t rebound unless you have two other bigs that can dominate the glass. Minutes will work themselves out with injuries and such and if by chance you have too many good post players then you make a move to improve your team.
Landry, Hawes and Thompson are all cheap solutions at this point but the Kings need more.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I think I Half agree
Though I like all 3 players I’m convinced one needs to go for an instinctive rebounding beast/low post guy. To be a good team is one goal, to get into contention – ya gotta have that guy in some form, C or PF.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
if you look at lee's stats at the same point in his career...
he and jt are very similar. lee didnt start to stuff the stat book until dantoni and walsh got there. up tempo offense combined with damn near everyone of consequence getting dealt..
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
But Lee could alway finish/rebound at the rim
Its the rest of his game, outside the paint (a little better now) and D (just as bad)
That he was working on.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Question
Why do you think David Lee couldnt get a max deal last year?
Answer: No one thought he was worth it. Thats why he re-signed a 1 year deal with the Knicks.. He’s going to be overpaid this off season beacuse GM’s will feel like they need to do something when they dont land a top tier. I just really hope its not the KINGS..
He's not a max money player but he is a 10-12 million dollar player under the current CBA.
The reason Lee didn’t get a huge contract is because there were no attractive teams with money last year outside of Portland and Lee made it clear that he wanted to be a Knick. Rumors had both Memphis (before Randolph trade) and Portland willing to go as high as 8-10 million. Wall has told Lee that he will take care of him and chances are, the Knicks are going to strike out with the big dogs and come right back to Lee for a solid deal.
Lee could really get crapped on here if the Knicks land two big fish and are forced to renounce his rights but he can still go to Toronto in a double sign and trade for Bosh or Phoenix or Utah. There are enough fringe teams like the Kings to make the gamble worth while to Lee but he will really run the chance of missing out on that 6th year and the ridiculous money that comes with it.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
This is the problem
He’s not a max money player but he is a 10-12 million dollar player under the current CBA.
Why would we lock up an expensive player long-term under the current CBA when we could NOT spend the money long-term and wait one year to see how the new CBA plays out? I like pookey’s Murphy idea a hell of a lot better than giving David Lee a five-year deal that could end up being 20% of the entire team’s salary over most of the contract.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
That's all speculation.
And, Lee would be the starting power forward for the next 5 years, worthy of 20% of the teams total salary. Martin was going to make that cash anyway. If the Kings go in the direction of Lee, the would most likely go after a cheap solution through the draft to play the 2. With players like Casspi, Evans, Thompson and Greene also playing on the cheap until Noc is no longer a Kings, the salary situation doesn’t look so bleak, even with David Lee under contract.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
You still have to prepare for it
Just because it’s only speculation at this point doesn’t mean you should feel free to give $12 mil a year to a player that doesn’t deserve $12 mil a year. Having money doesn’t mean it’s imperative to spend money. Oklahoma City has a big hole in their frontcourt, had cap space, and passed on giving David Lee a long-term deal last year. We are going to be in the same situation, and the smart thing to do is to pass and build through the draft. If we can get a star, use the money; if we can’t get a star, using the money will likely just handcuff us in the future.
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 5, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
It's not JUST about heighth
You have to be able to play center. Lee is a PF no doubt about that but he still plays very well at center, JT has the heighth of a center but he has stuggled mightily all year playing center. Some can play both & play well some can’t.
I love beating dead horses.
Landry con't
I now know how Houston was able to play so well last year and make a playoff push and have a half way decent record this year with no Yao and no T-Mac (I know he has been useless for sometime know, but he could bring it when he was healthy). Guys like Landry and Battier who are good teammates and play their roles.
What is interesting is the turnover ratio has dropped dramatically these last few games. No 20 plus turnover games.
Having someone who the other team has to double team in the post at times is huge. It is even more amazing when your former team knows it has to double team you at times in the post, that speaks volumes.
Donte, the dude needs to stop his Lebron imitation and take the open 3 when it is called for and play d. Quit with the razzle dazzle driibble crap going one on one from the top of the key only to turn the ball over or take some mickey mouse shot. I still love the guy for his confidence though, he just needs to find his spots.
Garcia seems to be all the way back.
I do not miss Martin at all.
by noreboundsnorings on Mar 4, 2010 9:56 AM PST reply actions
I'm with you norebounds
I don’t miss Martin either. He is a good dude, humble and gave a ton to the community here, but as far as his game, no thanks.
I always thought he’d be another Rip Hamilton, and he may now with the Rockets, but it was obvious with Reke it wasn’t going to happen.
I said this in another post, but it looked like Cisco dissed Kmart after the game last night (wouldn’t shake hands with him)…which is classless if he actually did that. There may have been a lot more to the locker room trouble than is known between Kevin and the team before he left. We can only speculate.
Anyway, good luck to him, but I’m glad to have Landry and what he brings to the team.
I think you're wrong about KM and Cisco
Kevin said on his way out that Cisco was his best friend on the team and the guy he’d miss the most.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
It's completely obvious that Kevin and Cisco were/are best friends
They probably went out before/after the game.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yeah I might have misinterpreted his actions.
Turns out he might have been pissed at Tyreke for leaving Brooks on that last 3 point shot. He was giving Reke a death stare, and Kmart was trying to shake his hand at the same time. My bad.
But ‘m loving Cisco’s game and leadership. He brings a lot to this team…welcome back Cisco!
In fairness you didn't like Martin while he was here,
so saying you don’t miss him isn’t saying much.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Re: Kings defense
Something about jazz and getting sloshed and the truth coming out.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Obviously Tyreke's worst professional game
Did he he see Curry’s bad game (yes, I keep track) and get too loose? The offense in general was a nightmare. alternating between too much one-on-one and overpassing (Beno) though the basket did seem to have a lid on it. New rims?
I’d point out that we were out rebounded again on the defensive end, though we certainly held our own an won the game on the offensive glass.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Beno
Funny, I was thinking the same thing: When Beno has got that open 15 – 18 footer, he just has to take it. With KMart gone, Beno is our best shooter. If you want him doing anything, it’s shooting the open jumper. Love him or hate him, Beno can shoot. And he almost always takes high percentage shots.
maybe im crazy
in fact probably I am and I have not glanced at the stats but
beno does not shoot ENOUGH threes for my liking. he is a great jump shooter. sometimes he hesitates on the kick – and I also think he could shoot more off the dribble
not to say I don’t love his midrange game – he has really bounced back this year and its great to see
by lchristmas on Mar 4, 2010 2:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, at the rate he shoots, he would be better off taking at least one more 3 a game, hopefully 2 more
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
He has good eye for shot selection
If he’s not taking more threes right now its probably because he doesn’t feel like those are as open. Most players are just the opposite and take an inordinate amount of threes…so I’m fine with Beno as he is.
Additionally this might be more on Tyreke. At least a few times a game either Beno, Garcia, Casspi or Donte is open for three but Tyreke gets tunnel vision once he decides to drive.
I like Beno's shot selection.
You shouldn’t shoot the 3 unless you’re really wide open.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I'm fine.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Where they starting to miss him?
Or just worried about what he was up to? :)
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
he made bail
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Tell them not to. It's a serious character flaw.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
after last year's fantastical season
i will pretty much take any positives beno will throw up there, not going to critique him for the little things
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
This I disagree with.
Beno earns an honest critique. The question: Is he under-performing or over-performing? Personally? I think Beno is performing about where he can consistently perform at. Hence why I haven’t criticized him much.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Kevin Martin now 6-23
Kings with Martin: 4-18.
Kings without Martin: 17-22 (3-4 since the trade).
Rockets with Martin: 2-5. (5 1/2 out of playoffs)
Rockets without Martin: 28-25. (2 1/2 out of playoffs)
Totals with Martin: 6-23.
Totals without Martin: 45-47.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 10:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
fingerpointing
Its the new American way – and its usually nonsense, no matter which direction the edge is cutting.
The Rockets held us to 32% shooting, Kmart must be a defensive genius! (chasm)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Not facts, stats
very different things. Stats disguised as facts are used to boltster up opinions. You know what they say about opinions.
This forum is all about opinions and thats fine but . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
classiness of coolcat 10-72
relevance of coolcat posts 15-67
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
by Grasul on Mar 4, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rockets: No Ariza, no Lowry
and much thinner depth now in the front court, where they were barely adequate before.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Good Point
If Rockets have Ariza last night, we probably lose by 10-15 points.
Cool Cat is pointing out facts. I find the numbers interesting, and appreciate his contributions. He may be bias against K-Mart but apparently some peoples bias against him runs just as deep. He did not even offer any commentary, and still Grasul finds it necessary to make it personal.
K-Mart was awful last night anyway you slice it. And I am a fan of the guy. But when he got double teamed in the corner and then basically fell out of bounds, it was one of the weakest plays I have seen all year. He basically gave up on the play! At least turn and try to throw the ball off the defender. As a fan of basketball, that play does not earn my respect regardless of what team the player is on….
SOFT!!!!
Stats not backed up by reasonable analysis
are not facts. The lack of any commentary is exactly my point, its a smokescreen of incomplete stats, taking nothing else into account – to try to prove some personal opinion.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Problem is
He’s trolling…period.
We can argue all day about Martin’s softness or lack of clutchness, offer facts and analysis to back up our points, and at the end of the day the anti-Martin contingent may well have the preponderance of the evidence on their side.
But what CCR is doing is posting to piss people off, not to expand discussion. It’s the same tired routine he employed (only in reverse) after Ron Artest left.
The only question is who he’ll obsess over next. It was Brockman earlier in the year, but clearly he doesn’t have the necessary upside.
If you are anti-Kevin, that’s fine – make your points. But lets be real about what CCR is efforting here.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I hadnt thought of it, but its kinda true
It’s the same tired routine he employed (only in reverse) after Ron Artest left
CC rustled a lot of feathers during the trade or resign Artest discussion a few years ago, then went MIA nearly all of last season. Now there are more feathers to be rustled. In fairness, he is one good feather rustler.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
The only problem is
You don’t have anything to come back with to “expand discussion.” Just some weak-ass psychobabble. So that becomes your go-to move when you’re outgunned. Same old tired routine.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Honestly
The last time you and I went round and round, I realized that it’s just not that much fun anymore. I’m sure Tyson felt the same way when he was repeatedly pounding tomato cans early in his career.
Another fight, another easy win…rinse, lather and repeat.
The question is…do you, CCR, have some Buster Douglas in you? Honestly, I don’t see that kind of potential – but feel free to prove me wrong.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
The next argument you win
will be your first. But if claiming to be a “winner” makes you feel good, go for it. In the meantime, the only way you can “win” is by changing the topic.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have to claim anything
What is…is.
Frankly, when I need stiffer competition than you can provide, I usually mess with shadowchicken.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Otis! I disagree with your views, and I can provide humorous image macros to refute your opinions. I am as stiff as you can get!
En garde!!!
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 4, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
'
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I had a 71 roadrunner (sigh)
Its neither here not there and has nothing to do with your screen name I’d guess – but I miss it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm actually named after the car. But most people go with the bird, so I just run with it.
Mi papa had a ’68.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 5, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Haha
touche mon amie
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 5, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
To add
Would you deny that your continued data presentations regarding Kevin Martin are done with the sole intention of ticking off the people here that like Kevin?
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I just like to offer some balance
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
So that's an "affirmative" on the trolling?
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Thank you for the balance
You have confirmed that Kevin Martin has played on some pretty bad teams. I feel enlightened!
I like how you guys jump all over coolcat for bringing this up...
but aside from any statement as to Kmart’s value to either team, doesn’t anyone else find it shocking that Kmart’s only won 6 games this year? Clearly more w’s will come with the rockets, but still…he was on a team that won 17 games last year, and he has participated in only 6 wins (granted out of only 29 games) this year…and clearly that’s all on sac, and the rockets record since he joined will improve, but still, that’s gotta be mentally draining to go through so much losing…
by Out of Service Pervis on Mar 4, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Martin has won 6 games
so he plays by himself? Those stats are as wortwhile as claiming Martin is a good defender since we shot 32% last night?
6 wins are pretty skewed.
Look, he is gone and we should be able to move on.
The first 5 games of the season, Martin was exceptional but Sean May and Desmond Mason were too much to overcome while Evans was playing in his first 5 games of his career.
Record 1-4.
Martin misses 36 games and returned to a team who had just lost 6 of 7. That same team was heading out on its longest road trip of the season- 6 games in 9 nights and got handled. Martin starts alongside 2 rookies, a second year and a third year player for the first three games. The second three games, Martin plays alongside 2 rookies (1 different than the first 3 games), 2 second year players.
Record 0-6
The Kings continued their slide, winning 1 and then losing 6 in row. Right before the all-star break, the Kings won back to back games with the tandem of Martin and Evans combining for 44 and 39 in consecutive games. The two games after the break, the Kings fell apart again as the trade deadline rumors began to swirl.
Record 3-8
Martin gets traded to Houston. Houston goes 2-7 with not only a new player but with the loss of it’s #2 leading scorer and interior post presence in Carl Landry. Trevor Ariza, Houston’s #3 scorer has missed 2 of those 7 games. Kyle Lowry, the Rockets #3 guard, has missed all 7 games due to injury.
Record 2-7
This isn’t revisionist history here folks. It is what it is. Martin has had very little chance to win games this season. I would love to see what D-Wade or LeBron James could have done with these same circumstances. The Kings were a 17 win team last year and this year two rookies and Donté, who barely played last season have played huge minutes. I think it is a little unfair to judge Martin and his win loss record without looking at all the variables. This post does not look at all the variables either but I think it is a pretty fair interpretation of what Kevin Martin has had to deal with.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Mar 4, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Good summary and excellent points.
You are right it doesn’t cover 4 coaching changes prior to that and a new coach along with the firing of all coaching staff and completely new staff to start the year off. It also doesn’t account for him coming back from injury to play huge minutes, not be transitioned in smoothly, and to be on the road against over .500 teams. There are lots of factors…
Not to mention
The dog ate his homework and the team drafted the wrong point guard. But you’re right, Kmart has plenty of excuses for why he couldn’t get it done.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 4, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The only one I hear making excuses is you
You continue this farce of trying to prove Martin sucked by throwing up a bunch of crappy stats that would get a person failed in Stats 101 and try to say they are valid. This is laughable and lame. You just make yourself look worse.
I forgot why I don't try to debate points with you.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I think you have an argument about Martin's value, but you're going about it all wrong
Let’s say the Kings play the Celtics with Martin, then the next game play the Nets without him. They lose to the Celtics and beat the Nets. Does that really say anything? Not really. You have no idea what the strength of schedule was for the teams they played with those records, do you?
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 4, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Ding ding fing
You sir, are correct!
Remember the early part of our schedule (without KM) was one of the easiest in the league, while our January (welcome back KM) was one of the hardest. That’s why CC gets a lot if slack for cherry picking stats. There really is no easier way to robe a glade point than through stats.
I’m glad you can see the forest from the trees.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 4, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Its especially silly
because the team, with or without him, the Team – just isn’t very good yet.
And I think they actually have more nascient Talent than the last two years.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
Over a few games you may be correct
But over 300 games I think those things tend to even out.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 6:40 AM PST up reply actions
We really were lucky to get the win
The Rockets shot 5-22 from three … but a number of those (including Aaron Brooks’s final attempt) were pretty open.
I went crazy when I saw Brooks take that uncontested three near the end. How bad can your defense break down at such a crucial time?
Anyway, I think Landry adds more than what the stat sheet show: better team ball movement, and as a result, less turnovers. And someone who can take high percentage shots and FT in the 4th quarter. It certainly takes some pressure of Tyreke.
Also, I’m happy PW is sticking with the same starting 5 for a string of games. I wonder if he’ll change when JT gets back. Any prognosis on JT’s return?
Dunking Dutchman
pretty sure Anderson set a moving pick on Cisco
Cisco thought so anyway. I thought it was just this side of gettin’ away with it. I’m not sure Cisco was the right choice anyway but I guess – length?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Cisco was looking
at Reke after he rebounded that last miss. It sure looked to me like Reke was supposed to switch on to Brooks and instead stayed in the lane for some unknown reason. Cisco looked pissed at him. Which I was glad to see….leadership. “I know we won, but you screwed up rook!”
I think you blame the “breakdown” completely on Reke there. He’s not perfect, he’s a rookie but we can’t give him a free ride all the time…..
"every once in a while a kernel of truth...uhh... corn is revealed in my usual pile of poop" - betweentheeyes
Hmmm,
sounds like that could be right and would match up pretty well with the rest of Tyreke’s night
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said before the game
Tyreke’s off the ball defense needs a lot of work.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think he did some partying in Houston the night before myself.
Just a guess – but it happens.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
Are you going Howard Nevens IV on me LTTG?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Also
IT WAS A BACK TO BACK.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
when you are 3 points up
you should be switching every screen and have players on the court who can do so.
by lchristmas on Mar 4, 2010 2:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm cool with cool cat's stats
What is our record with and without JT? Time to call Morey?? Just joking.
by noreboundsnorings on Mar 4, 2010 10:56 AM PST reply actions
JT
Needed a week or so to clear his head. Watching Landry work around the basket may clarify some things for him. He hasn’t had anybody here before that really challenged him.
Maybe a blessing in disguise.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting how people grind their axes
Some people refuse to be reasonable because they have an axe to grind. They get so involved in their own angst they just can’t get perspective or keep it real. They end up looking and searching for information that backs up their own version of reality and refuse to hear anything contradicting their narrow view.
I have some insight there because I blamed Beno for last year. I was so completely into that mode that even when he came out on fire this year I really could not see it. I refused to believe anything that contradicted my view and that view was pretty harsh. I really hated Beno.
Beno was the cause of the Kings losing and my poster child for all that was wrong with the Kings. It took a lot for me to finally realize this was all crap. Four head coaches later and with us in full tear down mode I realized it wasn’t him. It helped that he came out doing so well.
My point is that the Kings losing and failure has not been Beno’s or Martin’s fault. They have not been the fault of any one player, but players get blamed unfairly. This team had been and is still being torn down. It is going through a painful process, but that isn’t because of Martin. There is lots of blame and finger pointing that can be done, but it is all a bunch of BS in the end.
That doesn’t make it any easier for all of the people who are disappointed by this team and that want to find somebody to blame. Kevin Martin is easy for some to blame, but that just doesn’t hold water. There are just too many factors and problems with this team for that to really hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
Just like my blaming Beno, it doesn’t work and the King’s many woes and problems are not Martin’s fault. So, give it a rest.
by MustangMBS on Mar 4, 2010 11:09 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
On another note
I’d sure like to see a game soon where either Casspi or Donte’ get something going, have a really good game.
Its been a while.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
The hype and hope for both have far suppassed the production now.
Its nice to have a good 20 game stretch; both of them are learning that its a lot different having 82 good games than 20, and we need to be careful about projecting 20 good games into full seasons that will get better as they get older.
Like pretty much everyone here, I’m hopeful for both, but they’re both a long ways from being good NBA players. There’s reason to think they’ll get there, but its not going to be tomorrow.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
Omri is Tired
with a capital T and Donte just isn’t getting the same run now that he’s back at the 3. Hard to get something going when you’re playing about 10 minutes a game
Donte' got 24 min against OKL
and didn’t do much. Not bad stats offensively 2-3 shooting (all 3s) but only 2 rebounds and 2 assists against 3 TO’s, 3 of what? our 10 TOs?. Not much D played by anyone in that game either.
I’m not picking on him in any case as neither have been great lately, though Casspi does get more boards.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Donte needs to deal with being a 3
Can’t be a 4 he rebounds like crap (actually he rbs like crap for a 3)
Cant be a true 2, because he doesn’t handle well enough.
He’s a 3.
Ceiling as a 3? Maybe 16 4 and 2 and a very good defender.
Omri’s ceiling as a 3 ….maybe 20 6 and 3 and an above average defender.
Just hope at least 1 of them makes it to the ceiling or crashes thru it.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Omri is an excellent rebounder
And still young. I could see him topping out at 8 or 9 boards.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
That makes him a perennial all star as a 3
I accept your vision
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Not necessarily
I see him being like a Ilyasova/Odom 3. Great rebounding 3 that can score inside or out.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
One of my favorite young players in the league.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Turkish Odom.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
And for a Greek-Cypriot to like a Turk
You know thats something. Hedo crossed country lines for me.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
It also took a lot of patience though Smits
Ilyasova was drafted in 2005, left to go to Spain in 2007, and returned when the Bucks saw improvement with Ilyasova in the previous 2 seasons in the ACB.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Good point, pookey
Many International players stayed in Europe after getting drafted and did well there, but didn’t get called up to come to the NBA.
I haven’t seen Ilyasova play much here in Europe. He loocked promising, but I think few expected him to be this good. Props for him and Milwaukee.
Dunking Dutchman
No no Smits
Ilyasova came over to Milwaukee after being drafted, but they didn’t use him much in 2 years. THEN he went to Spain (he played in Turkey prior to his first Milwaukee stint) after he saw that the Bucks team (then) didn’t have much use for him. John Hammond changed his mind (as he should have) or saw improvement from Ilyasova at any rate. As far as paths go, it’s pretty unusual.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Also
That’s an interesting reason why you’ve chosen to be a Kings fan.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
He's already averaging 6.5 per 36 as a rook.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yes, I could see a few All-Star years for him
getting 16-18, 8 and as a euro I’ll go with 4 assists.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
All-Star. Really?
The whole of Israel would go crazy.
He has the desire and the discipline to continue improving. And I’ll root for him all the way. But one (almost whole) rookie season does not make a career. It’s a promising start, but there are lots of areas if improvement. The upside is, he seems a guy who will be able to eliminate his weaknesses. And he found a great spot here in Sacramento.
Dunking Dutchman
And you complain about Chapu's shooting.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Mar 4, 2010 11:34 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
If Chapu had played
We would still have shot 100 shots, but that wouldn’t have been because of the offensive rebounding giving us so many extra possessions.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I've got you covered
Chapu ain’t getting much burn these days.
AMEN!!!!
How’s that?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
I don't need any analysis. Can anyone just give me an Amen?
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
Amen...
and for good luck Awomen
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Mar 4, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
btw rec'd for begging
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAFUCKINGMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Mar 4, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
btw I can't Hear you is a statement not a question...begger
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
How dare you insult a national monument.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 4, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Mercy Rec
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Kings are 1-0 when Garrett Temple plays 4 seconds!
Yay!
The basis for winning the NBA lottery is having Mikki Moore in his prime. Not Shelden Williams, or Quincy Douby, but Mikki Moore.
by DejectedDogChronicleDotNet on Mar 4, 2010 2:26 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
Dude rocks on D
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
much more
valuable to the Kings than Kevin, according to CCR.
by what_the_crap on Mar 4, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Rec'd for the sig.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think bizarroguru is on the loose again.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
rec'd for illustrating my point
without going on and f—king on.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 4, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Especially if Dirk stays with him in the hospital
He’s a sensitive guy
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Mar 4, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Interesting thread
I hear the Kings won. Good Job.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
LOL Kfan
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I'm sure someone has already pointed this out
But you have to think that if one year ago today a time traveller from 2010 had come back and said “In one year Ziller will write an article claiming that Beno Udrih’s defense on KMart was instrumental to a Kings win in Houston.” We would’ve all been like “Awesome, we’re gonna unload Beno on Houston!!1”
by furious.d on Mar 4, 2010 4:39 PM PST via mobile reply actions 11 recs
i would have thought the same. Rec'd
"Oh boy! If you don't like that you don't like Kings basketball"-Peaches
this actually might be one of my favorite posts ever. id rec again if i could
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
not related
but a crazy HS playoff game just finished up at ARCO.
free special ed.
Franklin vs Turlock
Franklin come from behind, but i must say it was one of the worst officiated games I have seen (fouls were 2 to1 in favor of Franklin). But hey its high school basketball lol
free special ed.
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