Playing without Kevin Martin
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 6:14 AM PST
Email
PrintI had a chance to look at the stats of Tyreke Evans, Beno Udrih, Francisco Garcia and Kevin Martin while Martin was on the team. Here's what it shows:
With Martin:
* Tyreke averaged 17.4 points.
* Martin averaged 19.8 points (only 16.6 points after he returned from injury).
* Udrih averaged 8.3 points.
* Garcia averaged 4.5 points (in only two games).
TOTAL: 50.0 points
Without Martin:
* Tyreke averaged 22.0 points.
* Udrih averaged 14.2 points.
TOTAL: 36.2 points
In the seven games since Martin was traded, a rusty but steadily improving Garcia has averaged 8.3 points.
TOTAL: 44.5 points
So you have a gap of five points to make up in theory, but then you consider Martin was scoring more than 3 points a game less after he returned and Garcia averaged 12 points a game the last two seasons and seems to be rounding into form, and you can see that gap closing.
Now let's look at the front court scoring:
* Landry: 16.9 points in 37 minutes.
* JT: 12.7 points in 32 minutes.
* Hawes: 10.4 points in 26.8 minutes.
Obviously JT isn't playing and we are currently missing his scoring. But add up those minutes and it's just under 96, the time the two bigs play in a game (not counting our small ball lineups with Nocioni or Donte playing the 4). Just as a comparison, I think a previous look showed our bigs played about 90 minutes a game. Against the Rockets, Landry (38), Hawes (28), May (9) and Dorsey (14) combined to play 89 minutes.
After that it's a big dropoff in scoring to May averaging 3.5, Brockman averaging 3.0 and Dorsey averaging 1.8.
I see Landry scoring as much if not more as the team starts going to him more, I see JT maybe scoring and playing a little less but still averaging at least 10 a game and Hawes more or less keeping the same numbers. The other three guys will be situational players and primarily be used to spell JT and Hawes when they are not producing or Landry if we need some defensive rebounding.
Basically Landry at 16.9 points a game is replacing May-Brockman-Dorsey for the most part once JT returns. So that's a big shot in the arm to our frontcourt scoring punch.
Our defense has also improved since the trade as we have held four of seven opponents under 100 points and all but OKC under 110. The team is giving up 98.4 points per game since the trade.
Bottom line: more or less the same amount of backcourt scoring, more frontline scoring, better defense and less salary after the trade. Hopefully that translates into more wins both this season and in the future.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
134 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
And that's how I know there is no god.
If there was, he would have killed Kevin with a bolt of lightning before he was allowed to come here and ruin basketball for us.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Mar 5, 2010 6:52 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
And in other news, the [Redacted] are better without Kobe
With Kobe: 42-15 = 74%
Without Kobe: 4-1 = 80%
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Mar 5, 2010 6:58 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Aykis (or anyone), its picture time
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Mar 5, 2010 7:16 AM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 5, 2010 7:26 AM PST reply actions 13 recs
nice
"every once in a while a kernel of truth...uhh... corn is revealed in my usual pile of poop" - betweentheeyes
"Let it go, man."
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Mar 5, 2010 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 5, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
That pose he's using there
When I was in my early 20’s, I’d bust this out on the hotties on the dance floor.
60% of the time, it worked every time. I think it was the curled tongue that put it over the top.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
by otis29 on Mar 5, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm surprised it worked 60% of the time.
When I tried it, they all walked away.
The curled tongue gives it a salacious feel.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
So about 20% of the time.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Wow trr. This is all.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
You're right
Some fans just need to let Kevin go. He’s in a better place, and so are the Kings.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 7:55 AM PST reply actions
Which explains my multiple FanPosts about him, just this week.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
This is my first fanpost in two weeks.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
Yah BUT less than 36 hours ago you made the following FanPost
“Martin Struggles Against the Kings”
Which is funny because you didnt create any FanPosts when Kevin went off for over 33 against the Spurs, then 32 against Utah, then 28 against Toronto. Over 3 straight games he averaged 31 points per game, but nothing from you about how well he was doing. Wierd.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 5, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Lulz
He knew you were including his FanShot as well, and his trolling in the morning game thread yesterday – but he’s going to get ya on a technicality.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Speaking of trolls
Welcome, Otis.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
Did I lie?
Or were you not offering a little bit of deception to Andy?
Troll, indeed.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
I was just stating the facts
He seemed to imply I had made multiple fanposts, I hadn’t. Simple as that, nitpicker.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
Technically correct but factually inaccurate
You had a fanpost and a fanshot in the last 24 hours. You have embedded you campaign against Martin into other threads and hijacked them. What was stated about multiple fanpost was not correct, but the intent of it. That you post way too much stuff about Martin was true.
You post too much, period
While saying absolutely nothing.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
This is why people get tired of this crap
You refuse to address what they say and instead try to turn it around on them.
Yep
And you’re the perfect little angel.
Knock, knock, the tooth fairy’s at the door.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I think it's a Mustang.
But not in mint condition.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
What you posted
isn’t worth responding too, and your posts rarely are more than an echo of other posters. Say something intelligent, and I will comment on occasion.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Really
It wasn’t relevant that the truth is you have posted a Fanpost and a Fanshot in the last 24 hours as well as hijacking a different thread. Or are you just butt hurt because I backed up what others are saying, but saying not so well?
You can be a real piece of work and when somebody makes a point you refuse to acknowledge it and tend to attack them instead. This is just a continuation of that stupid tactic. The sad part is that it transparent and only reflects negatively on you.
Yes it does make the Kings better
but it doesn’t mean Kevin Martin is a “below average basketball player”
Do you agree
that Tyreke, Beno, Garcia and the other Kings guards can make up for Kmart’s offensive production and improve the team on defense? That’s obviously a major part of the rationale for the deal. Aside from the money aspects, I don’t think the Kings make a move to improve their frontcourt if they think they are significantly hurting their backcourt at the same time.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
that Tyreke, Beno, Garcia and the other Kings guards can make up for Kmart’s offensive production
No. None of them are as efficient as he is. Tyreke is the only one out of the 3 that can draw fouls like Kevin, and Kevin’s a better free throw shooter than any of those 3
improve the team on defense
Yes. That’s Kevin’s weakness.
Like I said, the trade makes the team better, but it doesn’t mean that Kevin Martin is garbage. Most of us thought he’d be the perfect compliment for Reke’s game, but turns out, he wasn’t. Beno is much better, flow wise, to Reke’s game.
You're right
Kevin Martin isn’t garbage.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
But this back & forth argument and rehashing what's already been rehashed and then some is, in fact, garbage.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
by pookeyguru on Mar 5, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed PG
Lets talk about the future, draft speculation, potential sign and trades, how we can get to 500 ball next year, why the sky is blue. But lets quit talking about Kevin, it is like talking about the one time in high school when you rsushed for 6 TD’s and had 3 int’s. It is old fucking news!!
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
I am actually curious
Why is it that you can’t let Martin go and that you hold onto him. Is this some form of denial about your homo-erotic tendencies and the fact that he turns you on which you can’t admit to yourself? Is it displaced faults in yourself that you are unwilling and unable to admit you have and therefore project on him? I am just asking…
I mean your continued, obsessive I would argue, need to keep hacking at Martin is one of the most bizarre things i have seen on StR. Why can’t you just let it go. Because the things is that your holding onto Martin and continued focus on him says more and raises more questions about you than it does him.
by MustangMBS on Mar 5, 2010 8:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad you're not a shrink
But thanks for the “concern.”
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
If incessant and obsessive discussion about a basketball player qualifies someone as being gay, then everybody – and I mean everybody – who posts on this site is totally flaming.
by corbin on Mar 5, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
There really is only one way to tell...
by MustangMBS on Mar 5, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 9 recs
Ahhh.. Crap
Here i go again. If this is not appropriate please let me know. I will ask that it be deleted.
Delete? Man......fuck you
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
And it's green because she has boobies and we like boobies. Even for those who have them instead of just wishing they did.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Like yourself?
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Man boobs do not count in this instance.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
If it is inappropriate, people will tell you. You won't have to ask.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Oh yes...the other one.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
This one is a few orders of magnitude less risque than the other one.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
rec'd
because i passed…whew i hate those pop quizzes
"every once in a while a kernel of truth...uhh... corn is revealed in my usual pile of poop" - betweentheeyes
I passed with flying colors
but I’ve always been a boobie guy so any doubt has been long since washed away.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 5, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
DO WANT
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Implants
Her boobs are too round like basketballs.
I love them
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
the best breasts
are the ones you have access to. The rest is just talk.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 6, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
sigh
and now I can’t stop thinking of the manssiere.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 7, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
The Manssiere™
Tired of the jiggle, gentlemen? Is your chunky chest becoming a challenge? This revolutionary new garment will solve all of your problems. Complete with an “easy-latch” fastener and durable “double back” construction, the Manssiere™ will ensure minimal movement, allowing you to become the active male you’ve always wanted to be!
Its quick, no fuss design, gives maximal support with the same comfort as a jock strap.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
This is the greatest quote i've ever seen on StR
If incessant and obsessive discussion about a basketball player qualifies someone as being gay, then everybody – and I mean everybody – who posts on this site is totally flaming. - Corbin
my mom obsesses over the Kings players
especially Kevin.
I wonder if she has homo-erotic tendencies.
by MichaelMack on Mar 5, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
LAndry is a positive addition
But you cannot get me to concede that losing Martin is addition by subtraction.
losing Martin was addition by subtraction
does that help?
no
it just shows you’re in idiot.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
The end result is that you add by subtracting Martin
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Am an I idiot for saying that the sum of the parts is better without Martin?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
(But I agree Watty is an idiot Gras.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
The sum of the parts will not be known for some time.
The caps space and what is done with it- even if it’s paying bills and keeping the Kings in Sac might be worth the loss of Martin. I also could see Martin fitting in with Yao next year and this trade looking worse and worse from the outside.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I'm not worried one way or the other. When Kevin said behind closed doors he didn't want to be in Sac it was time to move him.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I know he didn't say it publicly
He wanted out and said as much publicly without saying it exactly. Let’s not argue semantics here. Kevin Martin fans need to step off some and so do the Kevin Martin haters. You’re all wrong.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I am in agreement with you.
When someone wants out of a relationship, you need to let him or her go. Kevin wanted to go, as he was no longer happy in Sacramento. It would not have been good for the team or Kevin, if he stayed.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Of course I am.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Of course I am. I'm always right. Especially when I'm not wrong.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Of course I am.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
My point wasn't that you would care.
My point was that this trade cannot be judged on its face value today because no one knows what the future holds for most of the pieces involved. Screw Martin if he wanted to leave, he was under contract and had plenty of time to work this shit out with the coach/Evans.
I am a Martin fan but I haven’t bashed the Kings for the move. I like what Landry and the potential cap space represent. I’m not happy that the Kings have sold Landry as “what we got for Kevin Martin” because that move is going to come back to bite them in the ass when Petrie brings in a rookie PF via the draft or through FA. Everyone has heard my opinion on Landry as a player and I’m sticking to it- great piece to a bigger puzzle but not a starter.
I think the Kings made a nice move that allowed them to redistribute their talent and take care of a major need. A back-up point guard or two guard is an easier position to fill than a post scoring big. I’m not worried about the Kings win total this year, but I do believe that this trade will resonate with the fans and local/national media if things go poorly for the Kings. As an obsessive fan, like yourself, I can see many ways in which the fans could be let down by the Martin deal, one of which is the packaging that Carl Landry is being sold to us for consumption. If Landry is all the Kings get for Martin and the Maloofs run this team at 15 million under the cap then I think the fans/media will be less than happy, regardless of what a new CBA may look like. If Landry and a nice mid-high tier FA is what the Kings got then holy shit, Geoff Petrie is a genius.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Geoff Petrie isn't a genius regardless of how the Kevin Martin trade ends up.
I was thinking about this awhile ago: If you judged the trade solely based on getting Carl Landry would I still do it? Yep, I would.
If Kevin Martin doesn’t want to be here, and if Beno Udrih and Francisco Garcia are better fits (but not necessarily better overall players than Kevin Martin) with Tyreke Evans, that makes Kevin Martin less valuable. So moving him isn’t just about the talent involved, but the money too.
I agree the trade itself can’t really be evaluated until the summer, but that’s after the Draft and Free Agency/trades. I consider the trade a good one regardless of the summer though. That’s where I differ from most. And that’s fine with me.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
The only issue I have with dealing Kevin Martin
Is the idea that he had to be dealt because “he didn’t want to be here anymore”. IMO, that is no reason to automatically deal an asset…there are other options available.
I mean, Chris Webber hated the idea of playing in Sacramento when he was first acquired. It doesn’t mean the team was going to move him that first offseason after he arrived with the team.
Depending on the value of the asset you’re talking about, a smart management team would probably want to make sure the relationship wasn’t salvageable before deciding to quickly move the player.
Part of the problem in Sacramento is it appears communication between players and management is not quite what it could be. There’s a bit more of an adversarial relationship than an “it’s us against the world” mentality – which is what I’d prefer to see from such a young team.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
What other options available? You have to name me those options before it becomes valid. That is a hypothetical on your part.
I’m going to ignore the comparison with Chris Webber for a lot of reasons. But, namely, because Webber had just been traded for. Kevin Martin had been on the Kings for the last 5 1/2 seasons before he was traded.
Depending on the value of the asset you’re talking about, a smart management team would probably want to make sure the relationship wasn’t salvageable before deciding to quickly move the player.
Did you have a particular smart management team in mind? I mean, an actual NBA team, or a group of corporate merger guys who would find a way to squeeze that extra nickel out of something by waiting until the summer? I don’t get this. Until that magical deal you claim might exist by waiting, what is the point of waiting?
You’re talking about a relationship being salvageable when a PLAYER WHO WAS UNDER CONTRACT WHO HAD BEEN IN SAC THE LAST 5 1/2 SEASONS NO LONGER WANTED TO PLAY FOR THE KINGS. You can dance like Fred Astaire all you wish Otis, but no amount of bullshit will get you around this simple fact.
Part of the problem in Sacramento is it appears communication between players and management is not quite what it could be. There’s a bit more of an adversarial relationship than an "it’s us against the world" mentality – which is what I’d prefer to see from such a young team.
I’m assuming you mean that Geoff Petrie didn’t talk to Kevin Martin for a month before he was traded. I, too, wonder about that. But that doesn’t mean Petrie doesn’t communicate with players, and, even then, isn’t it the job of the coaching staff to actually communicate and converse with the players during the season that they are coaching them?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
By "other options"
I mean “communication”. A smart employer just doesn’t allow an asset to walk because the asset is unhappy. Generally, that’s how you either lose good people, or in the NBA, it’s how you get 70 cents on the dollar for a trade.
Bottom line is, we spend a little too much time bleating the “In Petrie We Trust” slogan around here IMO. The reality is that this franchise has had a parade of coaches and players over the last few seasons, and is currently experiencing a lot of player talk in the press, with veiled criticisms of the coaching staff.
And now, I’m supposed to assume that Kevin Martin, who only a few months ago was a loyal Kings soldier and part of a potentially unstoppable backcourt, is now a locker room cancer? Please.
But that doesn’t mean Petrie doesn’t communicate with players, and, even then, isn’t it the job of the coaching staff to actually communicate and converse with the players during the season that they are coaching them?
Well, it appears that some of the communication between the players and the coaching staff is currently being handled by the Sacramento Bee.
Funny, that doesn’t sound like an optimal situation to me.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
If you're point that Geoff Petrie is not a saint or perfect I agree. if your point is that "in Geoff Petrie we trust" is bullshit? I agree. But are we arguing about that? I think not Otis.
if you’re point that mis-communication caused the Kings to panic and give up Martin for less than what they could have gotten down the road, than I’m as good as done on this topic. There’s no way for me to debate what could have happened in the future. I simply don’t know. I can speculate, as are you, as you’re doing for that matter, but it doesn’t mean jack diddly shit. You know that. I know that. We don’t need to dance this dance.
Your point about the Bee doing some of the communication is funny. I mean, it really is rather funny. I don’t think PW is above reproach, I don’t think this season has gone well beyond reason (with the early season surge being incredibly surprising), but it certainly has disappointed either.
Side note on the disappointment point (since it’s a paragraph in of itself): Your point that you’ve made about how the team hasn’t improved as the season has gone along is bullshit. Always has. If the team had improved as the season rolled along, the team would be 500 right now instead of 20 games below 500. There are steps to be taken with the rebuilding of any team, especially with a very young team that the Kings have, and thus you can argue the Kings are moving along at a reasonable tract at this point regardless of the expectations that were falsely (and artificially) raised by the early start. Side note over.
So let me get this straight: A young team with a new head coach trying to establish ground rules is not going smoothly because that young team doesn’t always get what the head coach wants. (Right or wrong.) And, thus you expect a perfect record for PW in this area? Stupid says what Otis? Surely you aren’t stupid or incapable of communicating patience. Right? Optimal? I tend to think of optimal as working best under the given conditions. Isn’t that what optimal means Otis? We can agree that optimal is certainly contextual. Where we disagree that PW has fallen short. I don’t know how a guy is to be blamed for finding a way to win 21 games with this roster and the situation that has come along with it. Yes, he’s made mistakes, but he has some successes too. There are 2 sides of the coin here.
Anyway, I think I’m done debating this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
That issue was huge!
Is the idea that he had to be dealt because "he didn’t want to be here anymore". IMO, that is no reason to automatically deal an asset…there are other options available.
This issue of Kevin not wanting to be here, IMO, was huge. It had been brewing since last season, beginning with Peaches insinuating that Kevin was soft. It seemed to snowball with the acquisition of Tyreke and Kevin’s return from a broken wrist. Once Kevin made the decision that he didn’t want to be here any longer, I don’t think there was any turning back. If someone is unhappy in a marriage, usually that results in a bad marriage or divorce. Better to get a divorce then prolong a bad marriage. Couples counseling rarely works. It usually convinces the couple just how bad the marriage really is.
I am so glad that Petrie made the decision to trade Kevin. I truly believe that Kevin would have become a cancer in the locker room, if he hadn’t become one already. I am once again enjoying the team play. I have been a Kevin fan, but once someone wants out – show them the door.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
But the question is...why?
I don’t disagree necessarily that dealing Kevin was the right move, especially considering what we got back.
But the bigger issue here is – how does a guy go from being a model teammate/boy scout to a locker room cancer in such a short period time?
Add to the Kevin situation – you’ve got Spencer in the doghouse, and you’ve got multiple instances of players using the press to make statements about other players and coaches.
All I’m saying is that the franchise itself shouldn’t be above reproach in how it’s handling its business these days. If players are trying to get out, someone might want to figure out why -is it just a few bad apples, or is it a management issue?
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Name me a team where players and/or coaches don't do that Otis?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
(Talking to the press and saying negative things about them.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I do not think that what happened in Kevin's case is the sign of a bigger issue.
I wouldn’t make any more out of it. We watched the situation emerge with Kevin over a long period of time. We all hoped that it would be resolved in a positive manner, but it didn’t work out that way.
Kevin’s situation had nothing to do with Spencer’s attitude. Spencer has shown problems with his attitude for a long period of time. That is a completely separate issue.
As to instances of players using the press to make statements, I agree with Pookie, these are just young guys making statements to the press. They have to learn how to deal with the press, which I don’t think is an easy thing to do.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Well that's sort of my point.
Sacramento has so little media it’s amazing Sam Amick took a job with the Bee. The point? There is no real media in Sac, and sometimes fans forget that when players don’t act accordingly. (Yes I’m talking about you specifically Otis, but there are others like you too. You are not alone.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
There isn't a lot of media in Sacramento.
What our young Kings players may not realize, they are a big news item in this relatively small metropolitan area. People want to know what they think. For Sam Amick, the players are a ready source of stories for the Sacramento Bee.
When a young naive player gets interviewed, he may be flattered by the attention. When he answers a leading question, he may not realize that how he responds to it may not be reported in the paper in the way he imagines. What may seem like an innocent statement at the time, may come back to bite him when it is printed. It may take a misstep or two before before a player learns how his statements may play out in the press.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The reason is
Paul Westphal didn’t want him on the team. All of what passes for evidence, or things we reasonably believe to be true point that way,
And when I say PW didn’’t want him, obviously I mean he wanted something else, not he was ready to cut Martin or anything.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
You're an idiot but you know that.
:-)
If you have an asset worth $100, but only use the asset to $50 worth of its value, and then trade the asset for $100 worth of stuff you use to full value, you are getting more value from what you have.
That’s different than addition by subtraction, where you have something that in theory has value but actually is a parasite. The act of removing the parasite adds value, and Martin’s too good to characterize that way.
In the right circumstances, Martin has value. PW’s system wasn’t the right circumstances, so Martin had to go. If we got fair value or close to it of pieces PW will use, we will be better.
Mostly, I just get tired of the people piling on with Kevin Martin. Given the circumstances, its better for the Kings and better for Kevin he was traded, so it would be nice if people moved on at some point very soon.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I agree about the piling on. But you already knew that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
two negatives make a positive
so you can get a positive through subtraction
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
I asked the Udrih question yesterday
and thought the extended answer was better presented as a fanpost rather than as a comment in a game thread. But I guess I was wrong.
Udrih is not Kmart and either is Francisco. They just bring other talents to the table, and we’re on the hook for them anyway. We had more talent and salary tied up in our backcourt than our frontcourt, and now we have balanced things out on the roster talent-wise while (arguably) not losing much from our overall backcourt play.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 9:09 AM PST reply actions
I thought Beno was a PF in a guards body?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 5, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
PW didn't know how to use Martin right
I think Kevin and Tyreke could have played together and that they would have developed into one of the best back court duo’s in the league. I think had PW would have known how to use Martin a little better it could have worked. He needed to have Kevin move more without the ball and use the correct type of screens to let him shoot more off of screens. Kevins game just doesn’t fit into PW system ,as good as it does Adelmans system.
by AyyJude on Mar 5, 2010 9:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agree
and have said as much here previously. Good point.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Dan Majerle
was pretty damn good in PW’s system – 6’8" gunner from 3pt range who also played some D, but could create his own O (playing off KJ)
Coolcat, you are king of the small sample size.
Stop using numbers to justify your irrational hatred for Kevin Martin. You clearly are not capable of interpreting statistics objectively, so why keep trying?
And most people here seem to have already come around to the idea that the team is better off with Landry, so why the need to beat the idea to death?
What I care about is that the Kings
are getting better. Just get better, just as they are getting better, however that becomes.
I will also continue to pay attention to how Kevin Martin is doing, because I am a fan.
Enough.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Seriously coolcat, we’ve moved on. At this point, you really are trolling and its getting very annoying.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Mar 5, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
To add to my point
I will draw comparisons to the Rookie of the Year debate. We all love Tyreke, but when someone sees that Curry is doing well, its like they have to detract from what he’s done in order to show Tyreke in a more positive light.
Why must you constantly try to bring down everything that Kevin has done for this franchise? Why can’t you simply leave him be and stop trying to tarnish his reputation? He’s gone, the Kings have acquired Landry. He isn’t really of any consequence to the Kings anymore. I grew to really respect and love Martin the player over the years, as I have many other Kings.
But what’s the point of this continuous argument about how much better the Kings are without Kevin? Why can’t you simply be happy that Landry is doing well here and be happy that other Kings like Beno and Cisco are stepping up as well? The arguing made a slight bit of sense when Kevin was on the Kings, but now that he’s in Houston, its just arguing for argument’s sake, so just stop it.
I hope I’ve made my point.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Mar 5, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 11 recs
just for the record
i don’t know who introduced this photo to the site, but it is my all time favorite…it applies to everything. My wife starts in with “honey can you…” i think this pic..
"every once in a while a kernel of truth...uhh... corn is revealed in my usual pile of poop" - betweentheeyes
You're welcome.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
"At some point in your life, you're gonna have to stop and ask yourself the ultimate question."
“This business of… being such a fucking prick, what is it really getting me?’ Huh?”
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Mar 5, 2010 10:48 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
This is great.
I’ve rec’d half the post in this thread. I almost even want to rec Coolcat’s post for providing such a hilarious punching bag. Almost.
LOL Charlie.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Well, I hate Kevin Martin. I think he is rude. I am siding with Coolcat.
He is a good basketball player, though.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Rude?
P_L_E_A_S_E explain.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 5, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
He chews with his mouth open and doesn't hold the door for elderly ladies.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I was only slightly tempted to vote and will not
as I think we’ll just have to see. No doubt we needed a low post scorer but as I’ve said before I think we could have gotten more for KM. If a 1st rounder had been thrown in . . . maybe it would have been OK – but the trade closed one hole and opened a new hole on both teams.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I voted No
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Even though I don't actually think that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Ha, I just did the same
I like the trade, but it would take me too long to scrub the crazy off if I sided with Coolcat.
Exactly. :)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
There is a bit of a flaw in your offensive point argument...
So you have a gap of five points to make up in theory, but then you consider Martin was scoring more than 3 points a game less after he returned and Garcia averaged 12 points a game the last two seasons and seems to be rounding into form, and you can see that gap closing.
You make the point that there is a 5 point gap in the offensive scores. However, for the 50 point total you are counting 4 players (Tyreke, Martin, Udrih and Garcia) to give you that total. For the 44 point total you are only counting the points of three players (Tyreke, Udrih, and Garcia). Here is the flaw, when you remove Martin, you also need to replace him with another player to make the total of 4 players. I think that when you do this, there will no longer be a 5 point gap.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Nope
CC based his analysis off minutes at the G positions. Number of players is irrelevant
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 5, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
I guess our fourth guard
is Udoka.
But basically we had a three guard lineup prior to the trade in Tyreke, Martin and Beno and now have the same lineup with Garcia replacing Martin, Beno playing more minutes and scoring more, etc.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 5, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
udoka only plays when the matchup is right
20 min against the clips
30sec against OKC
20 min against Hou
'
"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller
by CaliforniaJag on Mar 5, 2010 3:56 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
cc gets my vote: best fisherman on the site. And he caught a school
by betweentheeyes on Mar 5, 2010 10:46 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
this post just killed 30 min of work time for me..
damn you coolcat!!
my favorite image was the GayTest for obvious reasons lol
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Jeremy Lin’s teammate snaps of picture of his famous couch
- Dwight Howard picks a strange time to ask for more fourth quarter shots
- Spike Lee texts to thank the coach that cut Jeremy Lin before seeing him play
- LeBron threatened to beat up a heckler. You gotta problem with that, tough guy?
- Jason Whitlock apologizes for his unfunny Jeremy Lin comment on Twitter
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
