Tyreke...the ballhog??
I would like to inquire what the best fans in basketball think about this western conference scout's take about the rookie of the year race. My thoughts after the jump:
"[Tyreke] Evans is going to win it and [Brandon] Jennings was up there early, but [Steph] Curry is going to wind up being the best player of the three. He's the ray of hope in Golden State because he's got the shots, he's got the moves, he's marketable and he's only going to get better. And I think his teammates like playing with him. He's a great shooter, obviously, but he's unselfish. He's looking to get other guys involved.
"Evans is obviously a talent, too, but my instinct is that not everybody likes playing with him because he dominates the ball so much. He's more of a point forward than he is a point guard. ... You can argue that [Curry's] numbers are inflated playing in Golden State's system, but you could have said that about a lot of rookies over the years. Most of the top rookies are on bad teams. Rookies of the year aren't coming from the Lakers. The issue is what the Warriors are going to do with [Monta] Ellis, because it's obvious that that team needs to be built around Curry, and Curry defers too much when Ellis is in there."
I would like to break down some of the comments this scout made. First comment: "...Curry is going to wind up being the best player of the three." I am not sure how everyone on this blog evaluates talent, but when I look at player versus player, I don't look at stats by themselves, I look at how they matchup with each other. Clearly if you asked any sane person, Evans can and will dominate Curry head to head. This scout is measuring value to a team from what I gather, but can anyone deny the value Evans has to the Kings compared to Curry to the Warriors? Second comment: "Evans is obviously a talent, but my instinct is that not everybody likes playing with him because he dominates the ball so much." What do great players in this league do, especially late in games? Dominate the ball. What has Tyreke done in a lot of games for the Kings? Brought the team back when it was on it's heels. He is a finisher, no question, and he doesn't quit, which inspires his teammates to not quit in games. Sometimes a team needs a selfish player like that to become great, and Tyreke is that type of player. He needs the ball in his hands to make things happen, much like great players do, and I can't name another player on the Kings that has that mentality other than Tyreke. If that means you have to call him a ballhog and a team killer like this scout says, then don't forget to include Kobe, Dwayne, and Lebron in your evaluation of problem players scoutie. Third and final comment: "He is more of a point forward than a point guard." You know what Tyreke is Mr. Scout? Two words: Basketball player. Some players, much like Dirk, Donte, even Lebron, are not classified in any position, because they are capable of playing a lot of positions. Today's basketball players are not categorized as much as they used to be in my opinion, so saying these things like "he is not a true point guard" or "he is a power forward" is not accurate anymore. From now on, please stop putting players in categories and just call them what they are: basketball players. And Tyreke is a damn good basketball player, is he not?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
31 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This please.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 7, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Just wanted to say
that many appreciate the fact that you didn’t take this advice the wrong way. Welcome!
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
No worries
It really helps make it easier to read.
You could try editing this post if you feel like it. Pretty easy. You can click on manage posts on the top right and you should be able to get to it.
you can edit it now
it just takes a moment
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Curry is very good...
…and he is clearly a better distibutor, but Reke may have a higher ceiling. I feel like Curry is getting the most out of his gifts already whereas with Tyreke we are just scratching the surface. If he gets a consistent jumper, look out.
Is there ANY evidence to back up this statement?
Evans is obviously a talent, too, but my instinct is that not everybody likes playing with him because he dominates the ball so much.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
There has been evidence to back this statement.
Early in the season, there was murmurs that Tyreke and an unnamed King were having issues with this exact problem. I had a very hard time getting used to watching Evans play because I like the western conference style of play where passing is the name of the game. Although Evans has gotten better about passing, I kind of see him the same way I see LaBron James. Both of these guys are so strong at scoring at the rim that teams start to focus their entire defense around stopping them from penetrating. LaBron doesn’t even have to try to get assists. So many people are focused on him that his teammates get wide open shots all over the court.
I think a guy like LaBron would be really hard pressed to share the load with another star unless that player was a big like Bosh, Amaré, Boozer. I believe that Evans is going to have the same issue. Surround him with shooters and post players and you have a good fit- add another ball dominating player and there is going to be a major problem.
Now to compare Evans to Curry is a pretty bad idea. Curry is a better perimeter shooter and a better passer. Evans is a far superior rebounder, defender and slasher. Curry is always going to be a tough guard for Evans because of his quickness where Curry will never be able to match Evans strength. The upside of Curry- IMO is similar to Monta Ellis or maybe even Steve Nash. Sure Curry is a better deep shooter than Monta and a better passer but the skill set and quickness is similar. The Nash comparison is pretty close, Curry is just not quite the passer yet.
I see Evans becoming something more like a Wade or LaBron type. His will and strength around the hoop are already top tier and like both of these guys, he rebounds, plays defense and will work on his shot as his career develops.
Curry will be very good, Evans will be great.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on Mar 7, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I agree with you.
My question wasn’t so much as to whether Tyreke is or is not a ballhog, it was more in response to, “that not everybody likes playing with him because he dominates the ball so much.” You do mention that there were murmurs that Tyreke and an unnamed King (Kevin Martin ?) were having some issues. I am unaware that any of the players have a problem playing with him. That was the crux of my question: Is there any evidence that any of the players have a problem playing with him because of his ball dominance. I did not make my question very clear, so that is on me.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Kevin Martin was injured for most of the season
I can’t imagine who would be having trouble playing with Tyreke. Maybe from time to time someone may complain because they didn’t get a pass but overall, it doesn’t seem to be that way.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I think that the consensus was that player may have been Nocioni.
But it was a long time ago. Playing with a guy who doesn’t pass when you are wide open for a dunk err, lay-up and they are covered but still try and shoot is one of the worst feeling I have had as a basketball player. Teammates may let you down and cost you the ever valuable assist on your stat sheet but the only way for a TEAM to succeed is for the team to grow together and play together.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I missed that about Nocioni.
I wasn’t aware of anyone having a problem playing with Tyreke.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Interesting
I do think this topic is worthy of discussion, Silly. Here’s how I see it: Let’s say Tyreke is going full steam at a defender on a 2 on 1 fast break, and he knows he can maneuver around him, with one of his long escape strides, for a close flip at the hoop. And to his right he has Mancakes Brockman streaking the wing as only Mancakes can. What does he do? If he passes:
(1) The pass could be errant.
(2) The recipient could bobble the pass.
(3) The recipient could botch the field goal.
If Tyreke involves less talented teammates when the play is there to be made on his own, he complicates the play, and gives an opening to the defense. This example is exaggerated to make a point, which is Tyreke is well-advised to keep the ball and attack the defense until forced to make a pass to an open teammate.
In fact, it is the job of a PG to create an advantage by breaking down his defender to force defenders to help. In forcing help, he draws defenders away from teammates. That’s Basketball 101, not over dribbling, nor ball-hogging.
The downside to keeping the ball on the aforementioned play is that while Tyreke is making the high percentage play, he is not always rewarding teammates for energy and hustle. Guys want the ball when they are open, and Tyreke needs to balance his unstoppable penetration skills with need to keep teammates involved. The word ‘synergy’ comes to mind, which is to seek a sum greater than the individual parts, and that does not happen with a one man show.
I am not implying Tyreke is a ball hog, only that there is an art to playing synergistically as a team that comes only with time and experience together, and the right blend of talent.
I have made the point in the past that when Tyreke is surrounded by more talented teammates, as a PG, he must play to exploit their strengths. Get them the ball where they can do most damage. Now that Tyreke has a real low post PF in Landry, he is well-advised to use him to fullest extent: find him on cuts, and rolls to the hoop. He is a finisher, so let him finish.
If you are Tyreke, and feeling spry, and there is a small crease in the line of defense you know you can exploit, then dumping the ball to JT does not sound super appealing, given JT’s post play inefficiency. But dumping the ball to Landry, although the same small crease is available, is not such a a bad option, particularly if Landry has been working over the defender on previous possessions. No advanced pedigree required here, just play smart basketball. Spreading the wealth keeps defenses guessing as to the next point of attack. Sharing in the context of real scoring options, and not sharing for sharing sake alone, prevents a defense from tilting the floor, and in a perpetual state of vulnerable uncertainty.
If you observe the arc of a career of franchise type players (MJ, LeBron, Kobe, Carmelo, etc) you will see that they went through a phase in which they were predominantly scorers, and as their careers evolved, they learn to be more efficient, and pick their spots more through the course of the game. They still score a ton, but deferring to teammates and playing decoy become strategies to maximize potential of the team. I think this is a natural evolution of highest caliber player, and this is what we will see with Tyreke, because it is the most energy efficient way to win, prolong a career, survive a long season, and advance deep in the playoffs.
Statistically, you could say a guy is a ball-hog if he is jacking a lot of shots, but not efficient relative to teammates. Gilbert Arenas and Monta Ellis come to mind as guys who shoot too much for my taste. In terms of Kings, Chris Webber, John Salmons, Nocionni were (and are) too shot-happy to my liking. I don’t see Tyreke falling into this group. When you can make 46% FG without a reliable jumper, get the line 7-8X, and opponents design defense around you, you are an offensive juggernaut. And you should act accordingly. Not for box score bragging rights, or individual accolades, but for collective purpose.
Ultimately, Tyreke will be evaluated as to the overall effectiveness of the offense, and points scored in context of a resurgence to relevancy. With K-Mart vanished, he is in charge. He has been handed the keys. He’s in drivers seat. It is job to start this engine and step on the gas. He need only unlock the doors and welcome capable passengers aboard.
by bench_blob on Mar 7, 2010 1:27 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
b_blob FTW
rec’d. Nice piece of writing.
Tyreke is overplaying and is overplayed in games IMHO. Because right the principal is making the kid stay in school. Better to let him learn on the job now than later. Stars are born, superstars are made.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 7, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Rec'd
Certainly Tyreke likes to put his head down and drive to the basket. But I do think he’s just playing the odds. A lot of the time he has a much better chance of getting points from five feet away from the basket than his teammates do from the outside. I think over the last few weeks we’re starting to see him do a much better job of recognizing when that’s not the case. And I think we’ll continue to see those assist numbers go up gradually as he continues to get better at evaluating who on the floor has the best chance of scoring.
Part of what makes him so good on offense is his instant attack whenever he sees an opening. There is no hesitation. See an opening? Snatch the two points by force. And that’s a good mentality to have, because there’s few things in the NBA more frustrating than watching a team fail to score points because an easy shot was passed up for a difficult one.
I would like to see Tyreke work on a few things here to end the season.
We know he can take people off the dribble. I want to see pick and pops, pick and rolls, moving without the ball, pull up jumpers and wait for it…….passing- feeding the post, hitting cutters, hitting the roll on the pick and roll. This isn’t just about surviving the 82 game season for a guy like Reke, he needs to show improvement over the last 20 games and he needs to put this ROY thing to rest.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
It's the putting his head down thing he needs to work on
Once he gets better at watching the floor while he is driving, it will open up more for him and his teammates. If teams know that once Reke starts driving he will almost always keep the ball, the can easily double or triple him. If he occassionally makes a sweet pass off the drive, teams can’t take that chance. It will come, I believe, with time.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
interestingly enough
The 3 potential outcomes you list at the beginning of your post are (from I have heard) the same reasons that Evans’ college coach Calipari uses in telling his guys to try to take it to the cup when you are on a break.
I’ve discussed this with some college bball buddies, and we seem to think that Calipari taught players to take the ball up on the break because, in general, college players are not as skilled on the break…like you mention, there are a lot of things that can go wrong when you try to make a pass on a fast break.
I’d guess that as Evans continues to play, he’ll start to recognize teammates more (as is already starting to occur, and many here have made note of). Great insight!
There was this guy who played awhile ago
When he came out of college teams were uncertain of what position he would play in the pro’s. And, when he got to the pro’s, he generally played both F spots depending on the matchup. In fact, you can probably say this guy probably made tweener’s so impossible to ignore for NBA history. His name? Larry Bird.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I just started reading the Bird/Magic book by Jackie MacMullan "When the game was ours"
lots of fun anecdotes so far.
It made me think of the Clippers game I went to at Staples Center last month but retitled “when the game was hours…”
by betweentheeyes on Mar 8, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the last 5 words
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Didn't you also go to that wonderful Dubs game a couple days prior too?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I read the Bird/Magic book a few months ago.
I really enjoyed it, as it was about a time before I got into basketball. Their rivalry was really something.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
hey your stoopid...
is this the same guy that said Kmart is SOFT..
Peaches is that you??

by 

















