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Thunder 108, Kings 102

Man, this is a fun rivalry.

Every game is contested to the buzzer. There are compelling individual match-ups galore, headlined by Russell Westbrook vs. Tyreke Evans, two of the best young guards in the world lining up across each other. You have a megastar in Kevin Durant constantly tested and challenged by his young counterparts (Donte Greene and, in previous games, Omri Casspi). A whole host of compelling supplements (James Harden, Beno Udrih, Serge Ibaka's right elbow, Francisco Garcia). Two undersung power forwards. A thriving young coach and an old skilled mind. Two rabid fan bases.

And it's going to get better, even, as the Kings improve on the roster and on the court.

This edition, an eventual Thunder win decided in the final minute as the Kings missed some free throws, featured a more physical nature than previous versions. A lot of bodies hit the floor. Spencer Hawes took out his good friend Durant on a fairly vicious, slightly moving screen. Andres Nocioni inexplicably tackled Westbrook on a fast break. Carl Landry cut Westbrook's face inadvertently. Ibaka threatened to concuss Jason Thompson with his elbow when J.T. harassed Ibaka on a rebound. Evans got called for a technical foul for apparently taunting the Thunder bench. Each of the Thunder's top three got a tech, Westbrook and Jeff Green for screaming "Bulls--t!" and Durant for calling Greene a "fluffernutter" after drilling a jumper. Scott Brooks and Paul Westphal discussed teaming up to jump the ref crew. Bryan Gates grabbed his brass knuckles.

Star-divide

In the end, Sacramento couldn't stop the Thunder, a familiar refrain. One hundred eight points for OKC in 91 possessions, an offensive rating of 118.5. The Kings played efficiently -- 112 offensive rating, an effective field goal percentage of .537, only about one turnover for every 10 possessions (excellent). But despite a lesser shooting clip (.500 eFG) and a few more turnovers, Oklahoma City again cleaned up on the offensive glass. For the second straight game between these teams, the Thunder grabbed at least 40 percent of its offensive rebound opportunities. That's just almost insurmountable, especially as the Kings were relatively ineffective on their offensive glass. Those offensive rebounds completely reversed the shooting and turnover advantages Sacramento had. The free throw shooting -- OKC hit 22-25, Sacramento only 15-24 -- created the separation.

***

Evans started 1-5. He finished 9-16. That means between the six-minute mark of the second quarter and the end of the game, he shot 8-11. Brilliant. He even dropped some jumpers. If only he'd been able to knock down those free throws -- he hit only one of four in the final minutes.

Landry started 5-6 and finished ... 9-13, which is really damn good, man. That's a True Shooting of .658.

***

Ride that invisible horsie, Francisco. Ride it.

***

Westbrook is simply incredible. He basically played the second half of the game half-blind. His eye was effectively swollen shut, where it wasn't stitched shut. And what'd he do in the fourth? Thirteen points on 4-8 from the field, 5-6 from the line. (Yes, a half-blind dude outshot the Kings from the free throw stripe in the fourth. Damn curse of the Indian burial ground.)

***

Evans called out Nocioni for some ridiculous shots late in the game. (See the FanShot on the front page.) Right on, brother. Preach! Nocioni has obliterated the normal definition of trigger-happy. We need a new word.

***

Welcome back, J.T. Eight rebounds (tied for team-high with Landry) in 30 minutes 10 days after fracturing two bones in his back. Brilliant. (Eleven points on 5-12 shooting, also.)

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Comments

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that

was the worst – officiated game I’ve seen this year and that’s saying something. maybe if ibaka had elbowed a third guy right in the face in front of the ref they would have called something. that “illegal screen” on spence was a joke – its not his fault durant is built like a dress on a hanger. jt had an and 1 that they called on the side. the thunder were practically bringing tractors on the court to stop jt from getting position – then the offensive foul call late was weak as well…

one more gripe and my pet peeve about the nba: the “throwing your shoulder into the chest of a barely moving defender to ‘draw a foul’” is getting out of control. if you aren’t going to call that a charge don’t call anything. durant got it 5 times last night. 10 free points. these players who constantly get this call are good enough to score without it. (for the record I always thought kevin martin benefitted from this as well)

rant over. couldn’t protect the boards or make ft’s = deserved to lose

by lchristmas on Mar 8, 2010 7:01 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I 2nd your gripe/pet peeve

Closely related (and equally annoying to me) is when the defender jumps out on a jump shooter and the shooter moves forward or laterally to insure that the defender crashes in to them, thereby getting the (undeserved) trip to the line.

Equally dumb is the “it’s a block inside the circle but a charge outside of it” rule.

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Mar 8, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions  

that's the one thing I hate about the NBA

officiating is the worst out of all the major sports. That Ibaka elbow was right in front of the ref, yet he does nothing. They call fouls because of who the person is, not because it’s a foul. If someone tried to throw an elbow like that on Kobe, Lebron, or any other all star, it’s a foul.

It’s the one thing I hate about the game.

by what_the_crap on Mar 8, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Funny coincidence

My 8 year old son asked me during the game if wrestling is real. I really wasn’t sure how to answer him. I didn’t want to lie but watching games like this it’s hard even for me to determine what sports are real & which ones are manipulated. Star calls are a manipulation of the game by the refs. That’s not the reason why we lost because we get call sometimes too. It’s just a sick reality in the NBA. Also waiting to see if the shot is made before making the foul call is sick. If he was fouled then call the foul. Or sometimes the refs blow the whistle prematurely & instead of just saying “no foul” they just go with it. It’s ridiculous.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

yep

there’s no “level playing field” when it comes to fouls. Don’t get me wrong, if Evans gets to be an all star, and starts getting the calls, then we’ll be happy. But I still hate it.

and tell him wrestling is fake. teach him young!

by what_the_crap on Mar 8, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

This team is improving.

With Landry, the squad is better. It will be interesting to see how the Hawes/JT playing time works out, and weather either or both will live up to their potential. Seems like those two are too similar in style, and can’t coexist for long periods on the floor.

Finally, the Kings need to find another all-star in the making to go along with Reke, just as Durand has Westbrook. Will that come in the draft, free agency, or will it come for players already on the roste?. Casspi? JT? Greene?….

Rebound, rebound, rebound…….repeat… for entire game.

by amonk81 on Mar 8, 2010 7:23 AM PST reply actions  

I have a feeling

That this or Portland are going to be our next major rivals once we hit the big time again. More OKC than Portland.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Mar 8, 2010 7:50 AM PST reply actions  

I have a feeling

It will be whatever team Chapu gets traded to.

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Mar 8, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I have a feeling

I hate OKC already.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I do

but it’s a healthy hate … if there is such a thing. I hate them cause that’s how I want this team to be. But I do like watching them play.

by what_the_crap on Mar 8, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't dislike them

They’re a young team on the rise. They’re what I hope for the Kings. Plus, they don’t have anybody who I dislike. Durant’s a superstar who also happens happens to be a great teammate and character guys. Westbrook’s tough as nails and fun to watch. Everyone else on the team is solid and they all buy in to their roles. They even have a great coach who is a local boy and former Kings’ assistant. There’s not a lot to dislike there.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I just hate them

because they should be in Seattle.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I blame a lot of people (which includes the Maloof's) for allowing it to happen.

I don’t know if I would focus the bulk of my hatred toward Clay Bennett or the Thunder organization though. I can’t blame them for wanting a franchise in OKC. (I consider it a double standard given how the Kings moved from KC.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t blame them for wanting a franchise in OKC. I do blame the ownership group for the under-handed way they went about it though.

Mostly I just blame David Stern. He’s the guy that chose between doing the right thing and corrupt backroom dealing with his buddies, and he chose the latter.

And yes, I know corruption is everywhere, but when its thrown obviously in my face and those responsible basically say, “We’re going to show the whole world how big an assholes we can be, and there’s nothing you can do about it.” And the commissioner, the guy that allegedly has the league’s best interest as part of his job description, takes the backroom buddy path well to hell with them, I just can’t go along with that.

I lived in Seattle for a while (Tacoma actually), I know what the Sonics meant to some people there, and Clay Bennett, Audrey McClennan and David Stern can kiss my ass.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Well Gras I feel your anger. I agree with you that Bennett and McLendon were snotty and assholes about moving the team.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

And as far as being able to tap into people's angst

You lived here (being a generous term of course Gras) probably when the imminent threat of the Sonics leaving wasn’t as pungent as it was in the last season here.

It was amazing to me in retrospect that I thought the Sonics would never leave. I was expecting something else, anything else, to save the day. It just never happened.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I lived there in the late 80s / early 90s.

Basically just as Shawn Kemp was drafted, Gary Payton was saying “Players like me and Magic don’t come along very often.” after he was drafted and the Sonics were fun, but before they really became good.

You can probably imagine, even though they weren’t my team, I was in college at the time, and my friends in WA were pretty excited about their guys.

I understand the White Knight that never showed up feeling though. Everyone had that feeling, they couldn’t possibly move the Sonics. Honestly, I still don’t believe it sometimes, it just seems surreal.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Surreal is the perfect word to describe the whole situation.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

And that's Durant's fault? Or Scotty Brooks?

Their owners may be douche bags, but their team is excellent

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm talking about the laundry, not the people wearing it.

There’s every reason to root for that team, especially because their GM actually might be as good as Portland’s gets credit for being, and I honestly enjoy watching most of their guys play.

But I still can’t root for that laundry, not going to happen.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

This.

I don’t hate them – Admiration and envy would better describe my feelings toward them. The fact that the Kings played so well against them, gives me a lot of hope for the future of the franchise. They are what the Kings want to become. When the Kings get to the point of beating them, then their will be some rivalry. It is hard to be a rivals when you just get beat.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

It is hard to be a rivals when you just get beat

This mirrors something Kobe said about us years ago. Which is why I hate him so much. For saying it, and for it being true

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Funny you should say that!

I was thinking of our “rivalry” with the Lakers when I wrote that.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Really?

How can you hate them? There so young and entertaining, Its not like their that team from so cal..

by chenp22 on Mar 8, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

including oden?

I wonder who the kings would have drafted if we had the first pick that year? Oden seemed to be #1 on everyone’s board.

by ucla06 on Mar 8, 2010 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

C'mon

Lanky shooter? Durant is right in Petrie’s wheelhouse.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Mar 8, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Spencer and the stat sheet

     Went to the game last night and sat a few rows off the floor. A few minutes into the 3rd quarter PW calls timeout. Spence takes a seat on the bench and JT comes in. Here is what my eyes thought they saw. When play resumed it looked like PW was handed a piece of paper that could have been the stat sheet? Next, it looked lilke PW mouthed the words “one rebound”. I remember looking at the stat sheet too and seeing Spence having 1 rebound. PW didn’t seemed to happy.
     Next is what blew me away. It looked like Spence was texting his dry cleaners to make sure one of his suits would be pressed for Tuesday night. Ok, the first part I believe happened, the second part is pure BS,
     I know we got killed on the boards, but free throws killed us too. Our misses and their makes and the technical freebeess. I swear if we make crunch time free throws this year, we would have 5-8 more wins.

by noreboundsnorings on Mar 8, 2010 8:19 AM PST reply actions  

Jerry Reynolds pointed something out on this issue last night.

Rebounds are something the team can do something about in a game. Even Landry commented that players just need to make the effort to get them. But free throws in a game are not intentionally missed. Last night, the players, including Spencer and Tyreke, could have made more effort to get the rebounds.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Is Westbrook really this good?

Or does he just play this good against us? The guy is amazing. Maybe better than Derrick Rose, although I watch Rose maybe twice a year where I watch Westbrook 4 times & twice in the last week.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 8:29 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

Only knock on Westbrook is the outside jumper

He used to play much more out of control at UCLA…but his game has matured nicely. Derrick rose is definitely the more talented scorer but Westbrook is a beast defensively and might even be a better facilitator.

And he’s not just doing it against us…for Feb he avg 18.8pts, 10.0 ast, 5.5 rbs, 2.8 steals, 46.2% FG, 2.3 TO

If westbrook gets that jumper down and continues to cut down on the TO as he has been this year…I’d take westbrook over rose but for now their pretty even.

by ucla06 on Mar 8, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

He is really that good

He averages 18, 8 assists, and 5 rebounds. He scored 3 more points than his average, but otherwise his stats were average, for him, which damn nice. The guy can definitely play.

by MustangMBS on Mar 8, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I think he's this good

Our defense obviously makes most players look better, but Westbrook is the real deal. OKC is in damn good shape with him and Durant as a one-two.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Rebounds! And 2nd chance points.

Just imagine if Udoka hadn’t gotten 5 rebounds in his 10 minutes (a great rate) – Ouch! I’m only somewhat comforted by the fact that Casspi is the best rebounding SF we have and I expect him to as good or better next year with that extra 15 pounds PW wants on him. Can Landry average more than 8? I’m not sure.

Not a lot else to say about this game that isn’t obvious, barring some defensive lapses it was well played and poorly officiated.
The Maynor performed one of the most blatant double dribbles I have ever in my life seen or witnessed, and I have to point it out – though I’m not saying those things cost us the game. My wife called that one though.
Cisco is about 95% back, really good defensively last night I thought.
Beno needs to take a few more shots, but I think PW gave him a mission to keep Landry involved – which he did. We’re still way too slow making that entry pass into the post. Landry is quick and if we get him the ball a second or two earlier, before his defender (and everyone else) knows he’s going to get it – he’ll do a lot more damage offensively. Landry made a critical defensive mistake late in the game, leaving Kitic alone under the basket to cover a 3 pt shooter , a shooter that evans or Beno should have been covering but they were floating around somewhere else. Its OK guys, it was just at a moment when the freakin’ game was on the line. (sar-chasm)
[sigh]

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 9:20 AM PST reply actions  

Re: the officiating

Between this game and the Laker-Magic game, I was again reminded of just how bad the officiating is in the NBA. This sport is downright painful to watch most of the time.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Name a sport with perfect officiating or that has games that aren't painful.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I just reread my comment

I’m not sure where I expected “perfect” officiating. Hell, I’d settle for “maddeningly inconsistent” over “completely inept” at this point.

To answer the second part of your statement – I think both baseball and football have their fair share of bad calls, but rarely are the officials noticeably bad game-in and game-out. I can hardly watch any NBA games outside of the Kings without noticing the performance (or lack thereof) of the officials.

For some reason, I don’t have the same issue with the NFL or MLB.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

And to add to that

I don’t deny that the NBA is a much more difficult sport to officiate than the other major professional sports. So I am clueless as to the method of fixing the problem. But it’s still a problem.

I guess that’s why David Stern gets paid the big bucks…to figure these things out.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Stern has already some of this

He’s attempted to get new blood in the officiating ranks by using the NBDL as a feeder system (good call on that—NCAA refs are far worse than NBDL refs I would suspect)—it’s not just the players who use the NBDL—and among other things I think he’s also used the public forum to help quell some of the consternation regarding ref’s.

I didn’t see anything last night watching the game that made me go “oh my god how terrible are these guys?”. Then again, I don’t usually think the refs are that big of a problem. i think people notice the calls in the NBA because more people seem to believe refs have more out of an outcome than other sports. But, I see plenty of fans complaining about an ump strike zone (and that matters doesn’t it?) and plenty of fans who grumble about referees/officials who blow calls in the NFL.

For whatever reason, only the refereeing seems to be a problem in the NBA. I think people just need to be more realistic about ref’ing is rather than expecting it to be something that it isn’t, or shouldn’t be.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually

My opinion of the officials is strictly from watching a ton of NBA since the time I was a child until now. It’s not that there weren’t bad officials or bad calls (game 6) in the past, it’s that the overall quality of the officiating across the board is significantly worse IMO.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

P.S.

I don’t see nearly as much complaining about the officiating in baseball or football. The strike zone issue in MLB has been around forever, but for the most part the players adjust to an umpire’s strike zone early in the game. Outside of that, I really don’t think it’s a difficult sport to officiate.

The NFL has a vehicle for coaches to appeal bad calls, and whether you like instant replay or not, most blatant missed calls are corrected.

Needless to say, I disagree with you completely and wholeheartedly. :)

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

The whole game of MLB is about the strike zone.
The strike zone issue in MLB has been around forever, but for the most part the players adjust to an umpire’s strike zone early in the game.

Yes, and when they don’t, who starts finger pointing first? The players or the fans?

The NFL has a vehicle for coaches to appeal bad calls, and whether you like instant replay or not, most blatant missed calls are corrected.

Gee, maybe NBA games should take 6 hours to play every night because coaches get 3 times to correct an officials call.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

6 hours? Where's Captain Hyperbole?

Actually, that’s a myth. The NFL made some adjustments over the years to compensate for the increased time used to look at replay on a handful of calls per game. I don’t believe the games are running any longer now than they were prior to replay being implemented.

And my point on baseball is that you rarely hear a lot of bitching and moaning from the players or the fans day-in and day-out on the strike zone. Not to the point where there’s conspiracy theories floating around that the officials are rigging the games (such as we hear about the NBA these days).

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, NFL games don't run too long

if the coach is wrong the team loses a timeout, which helps with the time issue later one

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not talking about the NFL being 6 hours

I’m talking about a NBA game. Games are already long enough without having 3 plays a half (which would be every half every game) questioned.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe they need to do a trial run

use it in the D-League or Pre-season games. I’d say they could use it in the WNBA, but even the head honchos of the NBA won’t watch that garbage enough to see if it actually works.

Maybe the NBA could make it so that each challenged call burns a timeout no matter what. Then games won’t take much longer than they do now.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

How is a trial run in the NBDL or WNBA going to change the fact that part of the problem with the NBA is that the athletes are so much better, stronger

and yadda yadda than NBA refs? Only in the NBA do you have a consistent game where lots of running happens and you have a lot of calls being made, but while asking the refs to be in incredible shape (which most if not all are) too.

It’s an impossible standard people are expecting these guys to be in. That’s all I’m saying here.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying its totally the refs fault

I generally don’t like blaming the refs too much. I get made at blatant misses, like Landry getting elbowed by Ibaka fighting for the rebound, then Ibaka blatantly trying to elbow JT. He should’ve been T’d up for that. But most of the time, I understand that there’s a lot of action for the refs to take in and that they can miss calls. I’m okay with that.

However, I’m not okay with just ignoring the issue of missed calls and not doing anything to at least try and fix it. If the NBA has a chance to limit more bad calls, especially in crucial moments or important games (Bibby’s face fouling Kobe’s elbow, anyone?) then they should try. So yeah, a test run in the NBADL or WNBA isn’t a bad idea to get a feel for how it’d work. I’m not saying that Stern hasn’t made some strides in limiting bad calls or dealing with the refs that make them. I’m just saying he can and should continue to try and make it better. And quite frankly, a challenge system where a coach can call a timeout immediately after the play in question isn’t such a terrible idea. No matter what that timeout is burned, which adds to the coaching strategy because that’s one less timeout to burn at the end of a game when it may be needed most. Also, maybe it can be limited to only challenging made calls. No challenges because Tyreke gets hacked in the lane but doesn’t get the call. It’s not a bad idea, by any means. It could add more strategy and excitement to the game without actually making the game last longer.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

The only way the NBA would agree to anything remotely tied to altering calls is somewhere in the realm where you have 1 challenge play call a half.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Other than what's already done of course.

But I’d argue that in the past, before this season, the Lakers would have had that 3 go down for Kobe instead of the long 2 it was changed (and the correct call of course—that is the point) to yesterday.

The NBA would argue the system works as well as it can realistically can given the actual challenges that exist.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Why one challenge per half?

If each challenge burns a timeout, then coaches should have as many as they want. It’s a risk/reward thing. They have to use their timeout time talking to the ref about the call rather than coaching their team. Plus, they may not get the call anyway.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Because challenging calls takes forever.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

OH NO!

Games might last 20 minutes longer!!! THE HORROR!

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 8, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't mind.

But other fans might Viliphied.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

they said the same thing about football too, and you hear it a lot when they talk about replay in baseball. I just think that getting more calls right is way more important than making the game a little longer.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 8, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

The games are totally different in MLB & NBA than it is in the NFL.

That’s why I really disagree with you. I don’t see there being a total net effect that some are claiming.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

My point is that the challenge would last about as long as the timeout

Granted, it might take the ref a little longer. However, the team still burns a timeout. So its not like the challenge takes forever, the call is reversed, then the team that challenged still has that timeout for later use. My way makes the challenge process less time consuming. Keep in mind, that the new rule allowing refs to review certain calls towards the end of games has not caused a dramatic change in the length of games.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Although there is one caveat to this

the refs could easily blow the challenge call as well. They reviewed a play near the end of the Mavs game where they said Cisco knocked it out of bounds, but it was clearly out on somebody else. They reviewed it and let the call stand

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

You have to put some limit to it or else coaches would challenge every call.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

no problem, two a half would cure a lot of ills

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Then they'd be out of timeouts, thus out of challenges

and they could screw themselves over challenging calls by not having any timeouts left in the end of a close game.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

No, they would still have their timeouts, in addition to the challenges.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

The game would just take longer.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

That's why i like my idea better

6 timeouts plus 2-4 challenges or 6 timeouts/challenges? My idea limits the number of challenges to how many timeouts you have and limits the time taken up by challenges, because not each timeout will necessarily be a challenge.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever...

I won’t argue whose idea is better. I think we are both agreed on the idea that getting more challenges to the refs calls is a good idea. The league can work out the logistics of it in terms of how to work that out. I am not opposed to the games taking longer if that improves the quality of the outcome of referee calls. But that is just me.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I like this idea a lot!

However, why limit it to a half? I would say, allow one challenge call per quarter. It would be well worth the extra time it takes to review it. (Of course, there have been times when some calls were reviewed this season and the refs continued to defend it, even when they were clearly wrong.) I am thinking of one call in particular – I don’t recall the game or player. There was less than a second on the clock, when the opponent team in bounded the ball. The player caught it down low and had to bring the ball up to shoot it. The refs called the “buzzer beater” good, when it clearly took more than 1 second. The call defied the law of physics.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

As tight as the game was called in some places - it was ridiculous in others

All those T’s and the Elbow threat doesn’t get called? I think it warranted not only a T but should be a suspension.

And I’m sorry, I sometimes have trouble seeing traveling and double dribble calls but that Maynor double dribble right at the top of the key? He dribbled to the FT line, stopped, took another dribble and passed to the corner. My cat saw that one. Now, that possession didn’t result in any points but . . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

The main problem with NBA Reffing for me

isn’t so much that they make mistakes, its that frequently there appears to be some sort of bias in the calls. Sometimes it just seems like they want team X to win, and make a string of 3-4 calls in a row in the 4th quarter of a close game for team X, a foul and one here, a weak charge there, an ignored mugging and a palming violation and ka-pow the winner is decided.

by TheFifthMookie on Mar 8, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Baseball is pretty damn good

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 8, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

You must be joking. You must be joking. You must be joking. (No I'm not kidding. No I'm not kidding. No I'm not kidding.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

Baseball umpires routinely miss calls. They have no choice because they’re essentially eyeing the strike zone, so nothing’s ever definite. Baseball’s also weird in that umpires also use make up calls. If they know they called a strike on a batter that should’ve been a ball, they’ll sometimes do the opposite later on.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, you think the use of makeup calls isn't applicable across all sports that have umpires(referees)?

That’s a human thing, not a sport specific thing.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

This is true too.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

And what's crazy V

The entire game of baseball is the strike zone. It’s not like they have to judge things all over a NBA court. MLB Ump’s make mistakes because they’re human (or they’re fat warthogs who don’t realize how easy the job is) and thus have a fucked up strike zone.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not the entire game

Give the umps some credit! Those fatasses have to decided if guys are safe on base or not too.

It does seem silly and archaic having umps call the strike zone. If the strike zone is the area above the plate, between your elbow and your knee how hard would it be to develop a computer program, where guys have sensors on their elbows and knees, that would tell whether or not the ball was a strike?

Then again, baseball is all about tradition and it’d be way less fun too watch baseball players argue calls with a computer.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You just can't

mess with baseball… You are right, it is all about tradition. I like the hi-tec stuff for basketball and football, especially football, but man baseball, that is all about the human element because there is so little else going on.

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 8, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I vigorously disagree with this.

Bad calls make the game worse. Period, full stop.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 8, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I posted that in class without the chance to elaborate

Missed calls by NBA refs often result in changes of possession or unnecessary fouls. Missed calls by MLB umpires usually result in ball three when it should’ve been strike two or something of the sort. I watch tons of baseball, and it’s probably the best-officiated out of the three major sports (hockey is probably the best of the four, but I don’t think enough people follow hockey on here to understand its officiating…I could be wrong). Basketball usually has so much going on at once that it’s a lot more difficult for an official to see everything that’s happening at once, whereas baseball has four umpires watching two or three parts of the same play. Umpires don’t need to watch the right fielder as he backs up first base. Basketball refs need to watch Sefolosha as he runs down the court in case he elbows Nocioni as he runs by. Out of the 60-odd Kings games I’ve watched this year, I’ve felt around half of them were fairly poorly officiated, and something near ten of them were atrociously officiated. I probably get those same stats in a full season of baseball, which is 100 more games than the number of Kings games I’ve watched.

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 8, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder how Landry feels,

is he getting less respect from the refs now that he’s with the Kings. Are more calls going against him now than when he was with Houston? Is it the team or the players that dictate how the refs call the game.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 9, 2010 3:32 PM PST reply actions  

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