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Will You Please Rebound, Please? How the Kings Lose Battle of the Boards

That the Kings struggle to rebound on defense is not new or surprising. Sacramento ranks 26th in defensive rebound percentage (72.4 percent), ahead of only the D'Antoni Knicks, the 7-55 Nets, the Gentry né D'Antoni Suns and the Nellieball Warriors. Given that the Kings tend to play fairly normal if somewhat larger line-ups, and have invested two lottery picks and a star two-guard (by way of trade) in the frontcourt, you can see why this problem in particular is so infuriating.

What's the root cause? Well, big men who aren't good rebounders, that's what. But really, how about some particular blame? How about some particularly liberating j'accuse!s, OK?

I looked at the line-up data from Sunday's loss to Oklahoma City. Since no one Thunder player killed the Kings on the offensive glass in particular -- Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka each had three, five others each had two -- it stands to reason that we could glean something from looking at which Kings were on the floor when OKC grabbed them o-boards.

Star-divide

What follows are all the Kings line-ups during which a defensive rebound opportunity was presented. (There were two other line-ups played by Paul Westphal, but there were no missed OKC shots in either short span.) The only numbers presented are each line-up's defensive rebounds, the number of defensive rebound opportunities said line-up had, and the defensive rebound percentage that shakes out to. (Note that the league average is 73.7 percent.)

Hawes-Landry-Greene-Evans-Udrih----9 defensive reb-15 opportunities, 60 percent
Hawes-Landry-Nocioni-Garcia-Udrih----0-3, 0%
Hawes-Landry-Nocioni-Evans-Udrih----2-3, 67%
Hawes-Landry-Greene-Garcia-Evans----2-2, 100%

Hawes-Thompson-Nocioni-Garcia-Evans----1-4, 25%
Hawes-Thompson-McGuire-Garcia-Evans----0-1, 0%

Thompson-Landry-Greene-Garcia-Evans----3-5, 60%
Thompson-Landry-Udoka-Garcia-Udrih----3-4, 75%
Thompson-Landry-Udoka-Evans-Udrih----3-3, 100%
Thompson-Landry-Udoka-Garcia-Evans----2-3, 67%
Thompson-Landry-Garcia-Evans-Udrih----2-3, 67%

You'll notice I've separated these out by big-man combos. (You'll also notice Westphal stayed quite big through this game -- no Nocioni or Greene at power forward.) So let's just go ahead and sum that up ...

Hawes-Landry----13-23, 56%

Hawes-Thompson----1-5, 20%

Thompson-Landry----13-18, 72%

Udoka's the best of the small forward on the defensive glass, but the difference between Ime and Nocioni isn't nearly big enough to explain why the Hawes line-ups rebounded so much worse than the Thompson-Landry ones. And the backcourts -- combinations of Garcia, Udrih and Evans -- are the same for each set of bigs.

It's hard to avoid the obvious conclusion, isn't it? The two combinations which featured Hawes stunk on the defensive glass, and the combination without Hawes was pretty good.

***

This is but one factor of a game, of the team. But as it's the factor which plainly cost the Kings a chance at the game Sunday, it's worth wringing hands over. I, for one, would like to see if a Hawes-Joey Dorsey combination would still result in bad defensive rebounding. Dorsey is an excellent defensive rebounder (with our limited data on him), and it could turn out that while Hawes is a bad defensive rebounder, and Landry is a bad defensive rebounder, each can be saved by playing with good or great rebounders. (Why Hawes-Thompson doesn't work is beyond me.)

1 recs  |  Comment 270 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Yay a real TZ post!

Gonna leave the Kings trading away Speed point alone. (Been there done that.)

I too like the idea of Dorsey playing more. The problem with Dorsey? I’m not sure he could put the ball in the ocean if he was swimming.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 10:53 AM PST reply actions  

Well, except gorilla dunks

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 8, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Hahahaha.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I was preaching Hawes-Dorsey to start the game when we had that post about line-ups.

You don’t have to play Dorsey a lot, but playing him with Hawes might help both of them.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 10:54 AM PST reply actions  

There was a play last night in the 4th where Landry got beat off the dribble by Jeff Green and Spence came over to help.

When Spence helped, Green passed the ball off to Krstic for the dunk, and afterwards Spence glared at Beno for not rotating. I wonder whose more wrong there: Beno for not rotating or Spence for expecting a 6’3 guy to be effective in that rotation.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Landry not getting beat.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

My point is that it's really a chicken or egg scenario by the time it got to Spence.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I know

and I think that is our main problem. We seem to heap every thing on Spence’s shoulders, when there are five guys contributing to our poor defense/rebounding.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep I agree. But every team needs a scapegoat to build a foundation.....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

In order to have a new sig you have to have one Michael. Just sayin bro....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Hahaha. That's funny.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Or stupidly arrogant.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Either way, it made me smile.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

I do what I can. And, I was kidding. LOL

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Heh. Makes no difference to me. I just like to talk shit where when and how I can.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Incorrect. Centers are supposed to rebound

it’s pretty much #1 thing in the job description.

if your small forward or your 2 guard grabs boards, great. But if your center gets 3 boards in 35 minutes or whatever the hell Spencer is doing out there, you’re gonna lose.

Again and again.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Until you acknowledge my last comment to you

And A) admit that you hate Hawes B) expect C’s to conform to your expectations of raw specimens C) use way too many small sample sizes to justify your data D) that you only come on here to grouse about Hawes when and where you can, we’re done. I ain’t doing this shit with you no more.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

"I ain't doing this shit with you no more"

That was a double negative. Which means you’re totally gonna keep fighting this out until someone gets some teeth knocked… and judging by the white trash way you said that I’ll assume you have fewer teeth to lose.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions  

If you only knew the irony of that statement.....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Let me guess

its ironic because I’m from white trash central?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

No I have all of them. And my wisdom teeth. Maybe that's why i'm so wise.....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I got donkey balls too. Maybe that's why.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

The only donkey balls you have

are the ones in your mouth

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Get out of my mouth and I won't have that problem.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well played sir

because that would’ve been my comeback to just about any response you gave

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll admit you were the inspiration.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

And the winner is.....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, I think he was calling you an ass.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually if we're striving for accuracy here

i was calling V a pig fucking donkey ball sucking hotey totey fuckwad from the ’Mo.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I stand corrected!

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't suck donkey balls

because even if I did you wouldn’t share

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Only you V. Only you.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

And I guess I could rephrase that.

V you’re almost like a woman, in that you have inherent value beyond simple biology, but you aren’t worth fucking.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

You win.

I no longer can play your game.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Recommended!!

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry but that's bullshit.

I comment all the time about all kind of stuff. In fact, and as you already are aware, I was one of the first people to join Sactown Royalty, and I was commenting around here when Spencer Hawes was still in freakin’ High School.

The only reason it bugs you about Hawes is that you and I disagreed about him early on and it’s turning out that your take on the guy isn’t holding up over the long run.

I’ve said again and again I don’t “hate” Hawes. That’s ridiculous, so no I won’t “admit” it.

You know, you’re getting sort of funny about this, pookey. We’ve been through it many times, and previously I’ve quoted you chapter and verse numerous comments I’ve made over the years complimenting Hawes on some parts of his game. My criticism has always been about his limitations as a physical specimen, which to me signals an innate inability to (guess what) rebound and play interior defense. And I think those criticisms are pretty well-founded.

Whether or not you do “this shit” with me anymore is irrelevant, but the fact is that if things continue as they are now, by next season a majority of comments about Hawes will be those calling for his head and I’ll be considered a “moderate”.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Comment all the time you do not.

I made more comments from my asshole this past week you’ve made the last 4 years here.

As far as your points about Hawes, you do have an ax to grind. You just attempt to hide them by using my personal methods of choice in argument. It works well for you, but it’s ultimately pointless. Like you’re accusation of my ignoring your statements of the past, you’re ignoring some of mine too. It’s really okay with me. I’m just tired of the BS back & forth this always devolves into. Been there and done that with you. In October I disagreed simply because I wanted to see how the season has transpired.

Guess what? The season has transpired and my opinion has changed as such. If you don’t like that, call it changing my mind, or whatever the fuck you wish to categorize it/call it/label, do so at your own leisure. Just don’t tell me what my opinions are on Hawes when you don’t know them well enough to actually cite what it is I said.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I'm glad you finally see the light

about Noah vs Hawes. You’re not blind, for chrissakes.

You just have a tough time on getting it sometimes, probably because you’re pookeyguru blog persona requires that when you take a position on something it usually has to be REALLY FUCKING adamant.

Say anything, throw in a few “fuck you’s” and insults, and it gets harder to admit when the original thought was off base.

But without the pitbull atttude and the nasty vibes it just wouldn’t be good ’ol pookey I guess.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I could be nice.

But what would be the point? The argument that you get somewhere by being nice is fine. It doesn’t mean shit in context though. This whole site is based off argument. Otherwise, we might as well be holding hands and shitting on each other’s faces and laughing about it.


Say anything, throw in a few "fuck you’s" and insults, and it gets harder to admit when the original thought was off base.
And, that’s exactly why I do it.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

well, I guess that's true.

but then again you make more comments than I would have thought humanly possible. I figure there must be some pookeyguru clones out there, typing away all through the day and night.

Hell, you make comments about your own comments!

The point is that I don’t only come around just to bust Spencer’s chops. I used to gripe about his limitations because I was one of the only ones around here pointing out the obvious and I thought the subject could use a little balance.

Nowadays though I barely mention it. There are getting to be plenty of Kings fans who grasp the inherent problems in Spencer’s game. It’s the coming trend, I’m sorry to say…

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

That's only the smaller portion of the problem as I see it.

I have a greater issue with your solutions you offer.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

The solutions I offer now

are the same ones I mentioned when Hawes was drafted and have been repeating ever since.

We need an athletic big man who can do crazy stuff like jump higher than 18 inches and not get pushed away from the basket.

The ability to box out, and maybe have a little lateral quickness would also be great. And if he can run the court, we’ll be cooking with gas.

That’s my solution.

If and when that happens I think you’ll find that players like Tyreke, Carl Landry, Francisco Garcia will all see improvement in their games.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Such bullshit!

Joke!

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So are you on the Derrick Favors over John Wall bandwagon MM?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Well...

Walls is pretty damn spectacular. He seems far and away the only sure thing in this draft.

If we somehow ended up with the #1 overall… hmmm… I guess I’d say you have to draft Walls and see what shakes out. Maybe you trade him. Maybe you see what he looks like with Reke. It’s a problem I wouldn’t hate having.

But anything lower than #1 and I’d be happy with Favors. he’s big, he’s strong, he’s quick, he can jump.

That said, Hassan Whiteside is moving up fast. He has phenomenal potential.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

You're not the only one who loves Whiteside. This draft should bring out some interesting debate.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

He's soooo raw.

It’s scary to pin a very high lottery pick on a kid who’s only been playing one year. In the MAC!

But jeezus, the kid is 7’ 0" tall, crazy long arms, and he’s not undersized. He’s VERY athletic, lots of natural ability, aggressive yet poised. Seems like he’s making leaps and bounds each game.

Plus he seems to have his head on straight. (The Anti-Cousins)

As draft day gets closer, it might be hard for Whiteside to go back to school. In which case somebody up near the top of the draft is going to roll the dice on him…

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep. Teams have to roll the dice on 7 footers because if the dice rolls your way suddenly your team is so much better for it.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Btw

Whiteside is now 10th on DX’s Mock.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

wow...

That’s pretty crazy. Hell, I only just heard about him a month ago!

And after he works out I have a feeling he’s gonna be in the top 5.

How could a kid turn down the chance to be drafted that high?

Usually I think it’s best for someone that age to stay and play another year in college, but in this case…

I mean, it’s not like Whiteside’s gonna be learning the intricacies of the game under Coach K or Calipari. Whiteside has rare physical gifts and he probably might as well try to earn some minutes in the NBA as hang around Marshall another season.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

You might want to read this Derrick Favors profile from the AJC if you got time MM.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

will do...

thanx.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

He is actually old for a freshmen. I would say it is in his best interests to leave now.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I would have to cut out my eyeballs if we drafted Kyle Singler

I hate Duke

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by Player To Be Named Later on Mar 8, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope blindness serves you well.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't Marshall used to be in the MAC and just recently move up to C-USA?

I know Marshall was not always part of C-USA.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Right. I stand corrected.

Conference USA. You get my point though. Unlike somebody who would be starting in say the ACC or the Big East, Whiteside might not be developing his overall game much if at all by sticking around for another season.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

The majority already do

other than a momentary blip over a few weeks where JT took over the “big to pile on” mantle, the majority have been shredding Hawes since the season began.

And of course he deserves some of it, but some he doesn’t also. Finding the middle road is rough sometimes. Two weeks ago when the majority were singing Hawes’ praises, I was a lot more cautious. This week its back to normal, and like I said, some of what Hawes gets killed for around here is the fault mostly of his teammates.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah totally with you.

You and I see eye to eye very much on Hawes & JT all the way down the line.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I am on the Pookey-Grasul bandwagon here

There is plenty to dislike about Hawes, but he spends a fair amount of his time covering for his teammates mistakes.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the ultimate problem here. I'm trying to identify all the problems, and I'm wondering where the solutions come from given that most of this roster will return next season.

If only things were completely simple, but alas they are not.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

That doesn't seem to be the case in Westphal's system

In PW’s system, it look like to me Center’s are supposed to help against dribble penetration as job #1.

You might want to clarify things with the coach next time you talk to him, but from the games I watch, it seems our center spends a hell of a lot of time helping on defense.

Either:

a) he’s doing that on his own (which seems unlikely given he doesn’t get pulled out for doing so it doesn’t seem to me.

b) He’s following the plan, and his teammates are at least partially responsible for the rebounding problems.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

B is my answer.

But I’ve always been pro-Hawes.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, probably B

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't a pass, it was a missed shot attempt....

…and Beno SHOULD have boxed off the middle. Krstic’s get the rebound then and it’s then an over-the-back call, instead of a dunk for 2 points.

by Smills9133 on Mar 8, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

3 assumptions are being made here.

1 is the over the back call. Lots of plays were being let go all night long (worked to the Kings advantage some and then not) so I’m not convinced that would have happened. 2 You’re assuming that Beno’s boxout would have kept Krstic from getting the board without the over the back call.

Okay that’s only 2 real assumptions.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

I think our defense plays into this a lot too, I think

Our guys tend to clog the paint leaving opposing players open for long jumpers and three balls. Long shots mean long rebounds. If a guy misses the long ball its likely that the rebound will go back out towards the perimeter. We leave a lot of perimeter guys open quite a bit. I haven’t delved too much into this, but it seems that every one on the Thunder had a couple of offensive rebounds save for Green and Maynor, who was apparently being a generous and humble deity yesterday, allowing others to prosper instead of himself. Good guy that Eric Maynor. Then again its also possible that backcourt guys like Sefolosha and Westbrook outhustled our big for those rebounds.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:02 AM PST reply actions  

though anecdotal

My friend and I comment often how many long rebounds the opposing team gets against us. I am not sure it is our bigs fault for Sefolosha and Westbrook, how come they were able to get in the key without a body on them? Hawes, Landry, and JT cant defend bigs and block out guards.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a combination of a lot of things really.

Poor perimeter defense + poor interior defense + no outstanding defensive rebounders who play heavy minutes = situation like what you saw last night.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

You bring up a kind of funny point

our interior D is crappy, but we focus so much on it. Maybe if the Kings played more man to man where you stay with your guy on the perimeter then our perimeter D would get better without or interior D getting too much worse.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I think 1 way the D would get better if Cisco started instead of coming off the bench.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean long term.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

But would that help the rebounding issue?

I love me some Cisco but he is a bad rebounder.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I was referring to the defense

But I think Cisco’s rebounding would less of a problem at the 2 than it was at the 3 where it was a major problem.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I like Udrih and Evans as starters.

The real answer to the rebounding problem might be the starting line-up of Evans, Udrih, Casspi, Landry and Thompson. Thompson, Evans and Casspi can be above average rebounders for their position. If Landry can improve to a league average PF rebounder then I think the team can do some damage on the glass. A Brockman/Hawes combo off the bench would also help a lot of things.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

JT is a great o-board man. He just isn't great at d-boards. Usually players don't get remarkably better at that during their career. It happens, but it's not very likely.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

haha

only if you never help anyone on defense

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

YES!! Thank you!

My dad and I had this conversation during the game last night. The kings always just go to the basket instead of boxing out on any man they can find. This leads to many lost rebounds where the ball goes in an unexpected direction and the other team gets them with hustle.

by thekangarooster on Mar 8, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm disappointed that nobody remarked at the awesome contribution of the almighty deity Maynor in last night's game thread.

StR greatly disappointed me last night.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

speaking od

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Mar 8, 2010 11:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Gotta explain what that means. I have no clue.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

mobile fail...sorry

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Mar 8, 2010 11:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

You explained it well below. No worries.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

speaking of no maynor

Where were you in the postgame PG? Anyway jj and I went back and forth last night about this issue. It is poor perimeter d, bad rotations, little boxing out. It is a perfect storm of small details creating a big gigantic problem that can’t be fixed with just getting a good rebounder.

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Mar 8, 2010 11:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I couldn't be there during the game. Trust me, I would have mentioned Maynor if the power of my laptop had been bestowed upon me.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Westbrook is a player, and he definitely was quicker to the ball on occasion.

Has anyone explained to Tyreke to average 20, 5 and 5, he has to get rebounds? Maybe he could beat Westbrook to the ball a couple times last night.

If Westphal is gonna play Hawes, the guards need to crash the boards. Evans can get 8 rebounds every night. Cisco can get 5. Beno, well, he can get a couple.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

And Casspi can too

Though I am not sure if Donte has any defensive rebounds this season.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Donté is disappoints me.

Overall, we are gonna have to suck it up for the rest of the season and hope that Westphal & Co. (I am looking at you, Truck!) can actually get a defensive scheme going and teach players to crash the boards.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

And maybe by next season there will be some improvements.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

A rebound is a rebound

Donte has some awesome putback slams. If he can grab rebounds there, he can grab the less glorified defensive ones. He’s not the strongest guy, but he’s long and athletic. He just needs to focus on it more.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

Every single player on this team has potential to be good rebounders. If that is not a top 3 focus this offseason, and there is not drastic improvement next season, I don’t think Westphal will be here for a 3rd year.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

It should be the number 1 priority

During our early season run the Kings rebounded surprisingly well. Like I say below, if we focus on getting the board then letting Tyreke run in the open court, we’ll get points

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Donté....

He’s too busy planning his next double back ass scratcher dunk or his flying squirrel off the glass lay-up to worry about such things as rebounds. I think the whole, you are a two guard….no, a small forward….no, a two guard….wait, no, a power forward…a three?…thing has the dude a little uncertain as to what his role is on the glass.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

This issue alone

makes me jump on the DeMarcus Cousins bandwagon.

DC(ewww even the same initials as Derrick Coleman-maybe I should retract that statement?) or bust

by Smills9133 on Mar 8, 2010 11:22 AM PST reply actions  

I'm kind of on the bandwagon

he’s got some attitude issues that I’d prefer to steer clear of, but he’s tough as hell too

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I am with you!

Here is the difference between Cuz, DC, and Eddy Curry.

DC had expectations that were incredible for any person not LeBron James to reach. Even now, people talk about how he could have been the best power forward ever. Cousins does not have that pressure.

Curry was part of the post-Jordan Bulls, called baby Shaq, and was part of the teen towers with Chandler. He was too young to be the future of a franchise. We know that now.

If, and it is a big if, the Kings draft Cousins, he would have to work hard to even crack the rotation. This wouldn’t be his team, because it is Tyreke’s. He basically would have a no pressure situation. I think he could learn the ropes, focus on what this team needs, and become very good in the future for us.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

That my friend is irrelevant

He is also probably the 3rd best player overall

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not really a fan

The fact that you have to post a (questionable) rebuttal to the Eddy Curry comparisons says a lot about whether he should be taken in the top 3.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Let's hope he isn't in the top 3

Favors has way more upside. Way more. He just isn’t as good now. Whiteside is right there too. Aminu is a tough guy to leave out.

I think Cousins is good, and can be a really good role player. I think he is top 10. I wouldn’t take him top 3.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Why has no one on the Kings coaching staff caught on to the fact that we need to crash the boards rather than worry about the fastbreak?

We have too many guys trying to start the break, when in reality, we only need Evans to do so. If 4 guys focus on grabbing the rebound and getting the ball to Evans as he runs down court, we’re gonna score. If Evans is in the open court with a couple defenders on him, he’ll still get to the rim.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:25 AM PST reply actions  

If Evans gets the rebound,

because his teammates boxed out and he crashed for the board, then there is your fastbreak right there. He already has the ball. Run with it.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the coaching staff has become aware of the rebounding problem.

Westphal has acknowledged a couple of times in his post-game interviews. I have faith that after last night’s loss, the coaching staff will take this issue seriously.

I won’t comment on the fastbreaks, as I haven’t really focused on that issue. For the most part, I have just been happy to see somebody, anybody, start a fast break. But, you might have a valid point.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Westphal's commented on the fast breaks too

saying that some guys are more concerned with that then getting the rebound. I like the idea of a one man Evans fastbreak. He runs the floor and goes to the rim knowing he’ll either score or potentially draw a foul. Doing this also stops him from settling on a jumper, something no one wants to see him do

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, its not like he's going to pass on the fast break anyway

so he doesn’t really need the other guys.

:-)

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Works for me

plus we can’t complain about him not passing because the other guys are still at the other end because they did their jobs.

This would also probably work with Reke crashing the boards and letting Beno break to the other end

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Mar 8, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I missed those comments...

but that is the value of StR. We all pick up on different things from games, interviews, etc.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Ziller - You hit the main issue in a nutshell

Rebounding is the primary issue that the Kings need to address to win games, at this time. This weakness has been identified in actual game situations. Westphal has acknowledged it. On a positive note, if the coaching staff were to focus on this area, then there is a good chance that it can be improved in a relatively short period of time. Landry made the observation that players just need to make the effort. There are so many things for players to think about in games, that rebounding has gotten lost. If the primary focus were to improve rebounding, then I think there would be a turnaround in this area. Once guys improve their rebounding numbers, hopefully, they would maintain that incentive, when the focus goes to another area to improve.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 11:29 AM PST reply actions  

I realize the problem

Spencer Hawes is a point forward. We must play him at the three, Greene at the 4, Thompson at the 5, Casspi at the 2 and Evans at the 1. Just go gigantic. Rebounding problem solved. Garcia/Landry/Udrih off the bench to do what they do best.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 11:40 AM PST reply actions  

Not a bad idea.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Um, playing Spencer at the 3 puts him way out of position to rebound, and he isn't quick enough to beat his man for boards.

It might work for a couple possessions in a zone defense, but not for long.

Now, I have been wondering if Landry could play the 3 with Dorsey and Thompson. That would be a formidable front line. I think Landry is quick enough to play the 3 on occasion. Kinda like Corliss.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Heh

“Putting Spence at the 3” means either he is going to play O like a 3 or he is going to guard 3’s on defense. Obviously no one would possibly mean the latter, meaning he’ll play the 3 on one side and guard a 5 on the other.

I also love how we think our 3s can guard 2s, when our Na1 can’t even guard 1s. Quick backcourts kill us. It’s a pickle, isn’t it? Go big, can’t guard the perimeter; go small, can’t rebound. Probably can’t rebound either way.

by sactown on Mar 8, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Mmmmm

I’m pretty sure iashwash was joking everyone.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Mar 8, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Hawes is a pretty good passer

but NaPG.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks T-Zilly for crunching the #'s.

You are preaching to the choir. I really want to see what the Thompson/Landry combo can do with some practice time together. Who knows, maybe Landry is willing to bust the glass in order to be a starting NBA PF. Hawes is fine as a bench weapon but until he takes his job as a big seriously, he is not a starter.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on Mar 8, 2010 11:42 AM PST reply actions  

There is no way a JT/Landry combo will be good at d boards. Neither are remotely good enough at it.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Probably not "good"

Possibly competent to slightly below average.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

JT is basically average on d-boards. No more or no less.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

He is now

I think he can get better. He at least has the physical gifts. But right now agreed.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Disagree about the physical gifts. But that's okay. We disagree on a lot usually. (Read my point about Hawes.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

A point about last night

OKC was just a lot better at o-boards than we are, by o-reb%, OKC is 3rd and Sac is 4th (look in miscellaneous statistics). You could argue that our lack of proficiency on the o-boards was what really cost us the game if you were judging it by the expectation that the team is nowhere near as good on the d-boards as the o-boards.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:45 AM PST reply actions  

Nice pook

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh god here we go again....

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Haha!

I knew you’d like that

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Samual Dalembert 7 def rebounds

just sayin again

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

So you really want Iggy & Sammy D eh?

Of course you do. You only notice what you want and ignore the rest because that would mean you have to actually examine the entire circumstance of what acquiring those 2 players would mean to the context of the Kings now and future seasons.

I do love the all the time on the spot punditry that fans give though. it is truly priceless.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I've actually always been against aquiring those 2

Thus the “just sayin” part.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Okay. But my statement still stands regardless of your personal feelings.

I will say it’s a good thing you don’t think acquiring either guy is a real answer is a good sign. LOL

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah desperation has me considering things for this team

I have always hated. We should feel lucky I’m not the GM.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel lucky I'm not the GM.

Which makes me fell downright giddy you’re not the GM.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

feel^

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Avoid making decisions from a position of desperation.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

One other way to interpret those results

is presuming Spencer was the center always and JT was the help guy when JT/Landry were together is Landry had a lot better night last night as the “non-helping” big guy than JT did.

Hawes/Landry and JT/Landry were reasonably close, Hawes/JT was a disaster.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:51 AM PST reply actions  

Here comes the pro-Hawes contigent riding to the rescue......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

like I said below

it sucks at times feeling like such an apologist.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

No doubt.

All I ask for honesty in any debate, and without the Hawes apologists there wouldn’t be any honesty in the Hawes debate. He would just be the next scapegoat to criticize (insert reason here).

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

It's interesting. Six months ago

Hawes had very few detractors around here, and anyone even mildly criticizing him for anything got pummeled. And the people who did the pummeling or compare him to Vlade Divac would get rec’ed.

There was practically no “honesty” in the debate. Or to be more accurate, there was no debate!

In fact, pookey, as recently as this October you were still insisting that Joakim Noah (who was leading the NBA in rebounding at the time) wasn’t necessarily a better NBA player than Hawes.

Lately the air has been slowly leaking out of that balloon, but that’s only natural when a lottery pick plays his way onto the bench and collects one or two rebounds in an entire game…

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh I see.

You’re assuming that I compared Spencer Hawes to Vlade Divac did I? Where? When? How? I didn’t actually. (I knew better.)

This is what I wrote about Hawes in September. This is what I meant. In October I meant what I said (It was still October). Now it’s clear that I was wrong. Happy now? Go fuck yourself. (And I meant what I wrote up above too.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Vlade; No actually you're assuming that I was referring to you.

I wasn’t. You haven’t been the worst offender among the Pro Hawes Zealots.

Hey, I think it’s good for you to admit you were wrong once in a while, pookey. I’m sure it won’t stop you from continuing to misjudge Hawes for at least a while longer though.

Like you say: “…you make a mistake and you just tango on”, right?

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Once in awhile? I make mistakes all the time, and thus note when I do. You just don't pay any attention to what it is my actual opinions are.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

And your point on the tango is the name of the NBA game.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

BUT HE'S ONLY 21 MAN!

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

And don't forget

He’s also had X number of coaches in X number of years.

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Mar 8, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Which is why I'm interested to see what happens if you bring in players who take the heat off Hawes

by helping the front line in ways that Hawes simply cannot offer.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Bingo!

And ’s natural to do that about somebody on the “home team” I suppose, but this is exactly my point.

The wishful thinking about Hawes has been waaaay out of proportion to his natural abilities.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions  

That's true of JT too.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally agree, pookey.

JT is very likely not any kind of answer for the Kings.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe we don't have that many differences in opinion (apart from your ax) then.

Actually i don’t think we ever really did, but I guess the difference boils down to this: I wanted to give Spence the benefit of the doubt. He’s gotten it, and it hasn’t worked. Time to move on.

Like the Martin arguments, I hope this one sort of fades into time.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll tell you where else we agree, pookey...

Derrick Favors. You’ve been pushing him for awhile and on your recommendation I’ve been following him a bit.

What he has is what we need.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Next question then:

Can the Kings consistently win with him?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

(This is a trick question people. Nobody could possibly know that answer.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

with Spencer?

or Favors? (Please ping pong balls, bounce our way).

I do think Spencer could be an effective role player. A scorer off the bench at least, but whatever his physical limitations he needs to develop his overall game a lot (requiring minutes), and I’m not sure he would be very happy in that kind of situation. Unfortunately his maturity level hasn’t been very impressive so far.

If you mean Favors, you’re right, no one could really know for sure. I’ll say this though, If he’s as athletic as he seems at the college level he’ll do some things in the NBA that would be a big boost for a team like the Kings.

The other milestone being when Tyreke develops a fairly consistent outside shot.

Inside athleticism and a stud like Tyreke with an outside game to compliment his already monster physical presence. Put those things together, throw a little Carl Landry in there, season with some veteran Omri, and that smells like a playoff contender to me.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

and I hate to be such an apologist for Hawes' rebounding

I really do, and he’s got to get better at it.

But I do see a lot of defensive possessions where he’s helping someone that got beat, and you’re not going to get a lot of defensive rebounds when that happens.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

One play from the Mavericks game really crystalized for me why Hawes is such a bad rebounder

And why the team as a whole isn’t making up for the frontcourt’s shortcomings.

We argued about this in the game thread, but I watched the play several times and here’s what happened.

Shot goes up. Beno was guarding JJ Barea and turns and watches the ball head toward the hoop, not even thinking of either boxing out or going for the rebound himself. So, bad Beno.

Hawes was matched up on Najera, who had position on Hawes. What killed me about this play is that when the ball goes up, Hawes froze as if he had good position and was waiting for the rebound. In reality he was pinned under the hoop and stopped fighting for position. In Hawes mind he was boxing out – doesn’t do any good when you’re directly under the basket.

End result: JJ Barea gets an embarrassingly easy tip-in.

It’s a team problem exacerbated by Hawes being an epically bad rebounder. Hawes shouldn’t be as bad as he is – he is big enough and has good enough hands that he should be at least passable. But boxing out isn’t everything – Hawes gets so fixated on boxing out that he’s never ready to jump for a rebound.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

What time fo the game was it nbrans?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

time of the game^

I want to see what you’re saying cuz that sounds right to me actually.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Okay thanks.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

3 things

Hawes is not a great athlete. That was more apparent on that particular play than anything else. (Hawes was not under the hoop.) I also think you’re ignoring the fact that Tyreke did a poor job of boxing out Beno Udrih on that play.

Why was it a problem? Beno was just standing there lost on that particular play after Barea curled around on the baseline into the corner. Hawes wasn’t expecting Barea to be there, and the reason he wasn’t expecting Barea to be there was because he was expecting Barea to be checked by Beno.

The problem there, mostly, is that Hawes physical limitations was a problem. But, if you told me that kind of play happened without a players name involved, I would have likely thought you were talking about Hawes and a blown assignment by a Kings G.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant to say that Beno Udrih did a poor job defensively on that possession after Barea curled around on the baseline

And that caused the o-board for Barea. Plus, it’s not like Barea went up easy either. It was a difficult tip that just went in.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

But a better rebounder would have moved into the open space

Hawes was in position for a rebound that came softly off the rim and bounced straight into his hands, which is what I mean by being right under the hoop. On a long jump shot the odds of that happening are ridiculously slim. A better rebounder would have tried to move into the open space instead of just setting up shop close to the rim.

I agree with you about Hawes’ athletic shortcomings as well as the defensive shortcomings. But even bearing that in mind Hawes should be a better rebounder. He just doesn’t have a knack for being where the ball is going to be. A lot of that is probably instinctual combined with not having the strength to get good position.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Who said Hawes is a great rebounder?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep I ain't disagreeing with that.

I disagree with you that you see considerable improvement for JT in these area’s. That’s where I disagree with you the most out of anything.

But, my point on that particular play was there was so many things wrong that focusing solely on Spence (although it’s a good point too) for fault on that seems a bit difficult to swallow. I would have to watch a lot more tape, but I think it’s just the problem of having players who just aren’t good enough d-boarders to get the job done. I include Jt on that btw.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes and No

Yes a better rebounder would have gotten to open space, but we cannot continue to blame one or two people for our rebounding woes. There are very few people that would make this team a better rebounding team by a significant margin. Hawes has value, but it is undermined by poor perimeter D and lack of good rotations. So we either need to find players that compliment his abilty and get the most value for the team or find a player that can help with the other defeciencies. Hawes would be a servicable rebounder with better perimeter D. Our D would be better with a shot blocker, but what would the offense do. This is like chemistry and we need to keepo tinkering with the right ingredients. Hell even Kings James and their kingdom are looking for the right pawns to get a championship.

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Mar 8, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

MORE Dorsey please!!!!!!!!

that guy is almost as wide as Dwight Howard

by mbcarval on Mar 8, 2010 12:11 PM PST reply actions  

I say we start Hawes and Dorsey

Hell, why not try Landry at the 3 along with them? Maybe between the 3 of them, someone can get a rebound.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

At first reading, I thought this idea was crazy.

But since, we do not have a definite 3 right now (Casspi was benched for being tired, Greene who is probably best as a 4, filled in for him), Landry just might work out in that position.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Last night it would've been interesting. Post Durant up with Landry?

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

If I were OKC I would.

As it was Green beat Landry off the dribble several times. Durant is so much better in every offensive way than Green it would likely have been a night where Durant would have gone for 50 or 60 if unchecked.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, I meant the reverse. Could Durant have stopped Landry?

Would Nenad have outrebounded Thompson? Would Dorsey stop Jeff Green?

I for one would like to see that line-up.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I see. And No I dont' think they could have. Then again, Green is a much better defender and he couldn't stop Landry.

I wonder if that matchup would have played the same way if Durant was guarding Landry.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I've said it before...

Hawes shows up for a game or two and then takes 1 or 2 off. Last night is the perfect example. 4 & 2 in 24 minutes while his counterpart Krstic goes for 5 & a whopping 10 in 29 minutes. Mind you Krstic is a career 5 rb/night guy. Wtf is up with that?

Purveyor of Bull Plop

by SayWhat? on Mar 8, 2010 12:25 PM PST reply actions  

Bench him!

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Make him earn his minutes on a consistent basis.

No rebounds = no minutes.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

No..

You want to motivate him. Tell him every game he gets 10 rebounds he gets interview by Kayte.

by MustangMBS on Mar 8, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Kayte wouldn't give Spence the time of day.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Who does she think she is?

Carrie Underwood?

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

She might go for a guy like Landry.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Sign them now!

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Spencer motivation

10 rebounds gets Fox News on the locker room TV.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

nice

& an autographed copy of “Going Rogue”

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Mar 8, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

God this place is incorrigible.

StR should be the millionth addition to the 7 wonders of the world.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Love it!

Need a list of the Top 10 Ways to Motivate Spencer Hawes. Any takers?

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

The whole concept

he’s very motivated to rebound in some games and not motivated in others is flawed.

He’s not a vastly different rebounder from game to game, things happen in individual games and the play of his teammates has more to do with his rebounding number from game to game than his motivation.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem with no Hawes

Is that the offense runs much better when he’s on the floor, he is able to do things that don’t show up on the stat sheets. Not last night maybe but . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

And that is the problem.

I think the problem with Hawes is this: The Kings don’t have enough athleticism up front to address his short comings that allow his strengths to shine as opposed for his negatives to show up.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Brad Miller, the sequel

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Which if you look at it that way, you could argue Hawes is fine. He just has to learn the real in's & out's of the game before he ultimately becomes the player he should be.

Even then, he’s not anywhere near the rebounder Miller was. Not even close.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Someone should tell that to Spencer.

It might make him work on his becoming the Miller Clone.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe he needs to start chewing?

The nicotine might give him a jolt and help him rebound. Just like B.M.!

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

BM?

Is that for Brad Miller or Bowel Movement?

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Same thing!

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Brad Miller was a bad, bad man.

When he was in his prime he had a mean streak on the court. That counted for something in his game.

He wasn’t a great natural rebounder but he was better than any big we have currently on this roster (although Brockman would probably be a monster rebounder if he was just a few inches taller and longer).

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Jon is a monster rebounder now.

He just can’t do anything else.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly Ice. LOL

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

He was a monster rebounder at 10 minutes per night

his production declined significantly in larger doses

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

JB

is at best a ten minutes a game player, though those ten minutes are a lot of fun to watch.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

The brief sightings of the Brockness Monster only strengthen the myth surrounding him.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Miller started as an energy guy that eventually developed or was discovered to have additional skills.

Hawes is the opposite, he has skills that are honestly pretty special, but doesn’t have a physical presence.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Therein lies the ultimate problem.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I would be fine with

“Brad Miller the All Star” sequel… I think we all forgot what a kick ass year he was having when Webber was out.

by OrangeLazarus on Mar 8, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't forget. Not sure why it's applicable in the discussion though.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

to be honest

the only reason why i was excited to see Brockness in a kings uni, because i kind of hoped his rebounding ability would rub off on Hawes on JT,

by shadowchicken on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM PST reply actions  

I think we're going about this from the wrong angle

We’re not a good rebounding team, so we have to find other solutions.
If we just would block EVERY shot, then we wouldn’t have to rebound. Only hustle for loose balls.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Mar 8, 2010 12:50 PM PST reply actions  

None of the Hawes lineups featured Udoka

who grabbed 5 rebounds in only 10 minutes., half of the whole team’s opportunities while he was on the floor, so the numbers are scewed a bit from my perspective. Tooo small a sample size though I don’t argue with the conclusions drawn as a whole.

Without Udoka manning up it would have been much worse. I think Hawes Dorsey makes sense though, as a big who can create for himself and others Hawes hides some of Dosey’s lack of offense and should be able to get him a few easy shots near he basket.

Casspi is an excellent rebounder at the SF and if he adds the 15 pounds PW wants in the offseason he should be even better, he’s got that ‘nose for the ball’.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM PST reply actions  

I don't know what the fascination is however with having 5 guys who can all score on the floor

OKL has Thabo playing 30 minutes and the guy doesn’t score for crap, plenty of other teams who have rebounding / defensive specialists who are starters or 6th men.

Give it a try.
(but OK, I do know the fascination – I just don’t think its a necessity)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 8, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly...

You can put a player with limited offensive skills like Brockman on the floor with 4 offensive minded players and he can fit in. By way of example, look at the great Bulls teams with Rodman, the guy couldn’t score for crap, but he was a rebounding fool and brought that needed energy to the floor every night. Now, I’m not saying Brockman = Rodman, but you get my drift.

Purveyor of Bull Plop

by SayWhat? on Mar 8, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

If the Kings had Dennis Rodman in his prime, and assuming Rodman was motivated, and with this group, the Kings could be in the playoffs.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

hmm, could be...

at least, after Tyreke develops his outside game anyway.

A great rebounder makes a major difference in the NBA, and the farther you go into the post-season the more critical it tends to get (ditto for defense).

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

It's crucial to be able to create your own offense 1 on 1 too.

The problem as I see it is that the game isn’t 1 end, but 2 ends and balancing your needs on both ends is extremely important. Can’t win without defense OR offense. But it is likely that your team will be better on 1 end than the other. That is just the nature of the beast.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure.

In general, I agree.

Still, (and I was making this point when K-Mart was with the team and I maintain that) we can generate plenty of offense with players like Tyreke, Landry, Casspi, Donte’, Beno and Garcia, not to mention Hawes, when the match-up works in his favor. JT is probably going to be a more effective offensive player than defender too.

Tyreke and Landry in particular are major match-up nightmares for defenders. They need to, (and should) have the ball in their hands a lot.

But as this post points out, we’re getting killed in the paint. And that’s also true of our play in transition defense. And on the defensive end in general, particularly where opponents regularly beat us on pick and roll plays.

We’re just not getting it done on D. Opponents are connecting on a high percentage of their shots and our defensive rebounding stats are ridiculous. I’ve never said Hawes was the only culprit on the team, but he’s the biggest one.

Hawes hasn’t been playing very well on offense for a lot of this season anyway, but even if he was my argument was and is that we’d be overall significantly better off with an athletic, rebounding player who thinks defense and pass first getting most of the minutes at the 5.

If that guy also picks up 8 or 10 points, great.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow. Very very very well said.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

rec'd

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said

Sometimes players are better in limited roles, and JB is definitely one of them.

by MichaelMack on Mar 8, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

No King scores well enough at this point to warrant that.

The Thunder have defined scoring options. Outside of Evans, the Kings do not. If you could depend on three starters for a certain amount of points every night, and you’re not playing all five starters trying to gamble your way into some offense, then you could do that. Till then, the Kings aren’t that blessed, unfortunately.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

That was true when the Kings had Kevin Martin too. Less true with Carl Landry and how he has scored recently.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

eh.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Not so with the way Carl Landry gets his points.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean efficiently and inside?

What a terrible thing to have.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean

without set plays run for him. Hard to get the offensive rebound and the putback if you’re putting up the shots.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

True.

But Landry is also scoring when they give him the ball. He isn’t getting a lot of his points off o-boards/putbacks.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

No one was attacking Carl Landry

But Carl Landry or no Carl Landry, the Kings do not have enough consistent firepower in their starting rotation to warrant substituting a defense-only player into a larger, starter-level role. The Kings are inefficient enough across the board that having one player who can be ignored by the defense means the Kings will struggle when the defense puts the clamps on the one or two players who are producing.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Mar 8, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

No question. I agree with that portion of the statement.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

That will change

when Tyreke develops his perimeter game and adds that to his already mind blowing ability to attack the basket.

When that happens, (and it must for the Kings to turn things around anytime soon) Tyreke Evans will be virtually un-stoppable. Reke has the raw talent to develop into one of the half dozen best offensive players in the NBA and that will change the overall dynamic of this team’s game plan.

Landry is also a truly dangerous and effective player on offense, and his skills inside should mesh well with Tyreke’s.

I also like Casspi’s overall approach to offense, raw though it may be. He’s gonna be a dangerous third option.

Which by the way is the most that Hawes could ever be on this team. A third option. He gives away too much on the defensive end and on the boards to justify all the minutes he’s getting.

I’m not saying we want a big man who’s a total non-factor except on defense. But a rebounding 5 who’s also athletic and unselfish and opportunistic can make a lot of things happen around him, slamming down put backs, scoring in transition, creating screens for high percentage shooters, etc.

I like our chances with somebody like that more than the present cast, and particularly as the top two rookies on the Kings develop.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll be honest, I'm a lot more hopeful for Hawes' future than Casspi's.

And I agree Hawes is probably destined to be a 4th option or at most 3rd, but with his ability to see the floor and pass, he’s the kind of 4th option that’s going to make options 1-3 better for someone.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Mar 8, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

of guards, Tyreke Evans has got to be one of the worst shooters in the league, if not dead last. He’s so bad I can’t even believe it sometimes.

by Mike11188 on Mar 8, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes and no

Agreed if you are talking about solely his perimeter shooting. However, his total TS% puts him on a par with Jameer Nelson, and ranks him ahead of guys like Devin Harris, Gilbert Arenas, Derrick Rose, Mike Bibby, and Andre Miller.

Amongst rookies, Stephen Curry is the only guard playing at least half a game that has a higher TS% than Evans.

No doubt, Evans needs to improve his perimeter shooting – a lot. But it is amazing how efficient he has been in spite of his balky jumper.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 9, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 9, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This is exactly why I was against the Landry trade

We put another bad rebounder into a frontcourt of bad rebounders. You don’t make trades unless they address your weakness, and you certainly don’t make trades that reinforce your weakness.

By the way, Kevin Martin averaging 23 ppg on 16 shots for Houston; 26ppg on nearly 50% shooting over his last 5. Good one Geoff.

by sactown on Mar 8, 2010 3:49 PM PST reply actions  

This I gotta disagree with though.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 8, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you upgrade however you can and address the weaknesses later

And Landry was a definite upgrade to the frontcourt, however his own weaknesses are similar to the existing problems.

The question is whether Geoff ever looks at a soft, non-defending, non-rebounding frontcourt and sees a problem. I’ve kind of lost faith on that front.

by nbrans on Mar 8, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think so

That’s why I wonder whether there’s even a point in arguing about getting an Okafor/Dalembert type.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel exactly the same...

The pattern is just too consistent.

by MustangMBS on Mar 8, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The team is better with Landry, even if he doesn't fill all the weaknesses of the team.

The team is no worse without Kevin, regardless of how he performs for the Rockets.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on Mar 8, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

team is worse at rebounding w landry but better overall

Landry is a poor rebounder at the 4 spot…anyone who denies this is blind. But team chemistry is better and we get more balanced scoring from inside and outside with him in the lineup. We are better w/ Landry as opposed to Kmart.

Hopefully landry can be our 6th man eventually and we can get another rebounding/shot blocking big man.

by ucla06 on Mar 8, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Post offense was a weakness

So the trade did address that weakness.

"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty

by otis29 on Mar 8, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

nah...

we badly needed someone who can create offense around the basket, and Landry is proving to be really, really good at that. (I thought Ron-Ron was gonna be that kind of player for the Kings but for some reason he decided he was Ray Allen with muscles and stepped back trying to drain threes).

Landry’s not a great rebounder or defender but he’s considerably stronger than K-Mart in those areas. Plus he’s younger and cheaper than Kevin, and just as fun to watch play.

Landry was a great pick-up for the Kings looking forward. His game will work way better with Tyreke’s, who, let’s face it, is The Future.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 8, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

No excuses/rationalization for Hawes's rebounding numbers.

I don’t care who’s on the court, and what the guards are doing….a center/man of Hawes’ size should never get 2/3 rebounds a game. Most of us agree that Landry and JT are average on the boards and they each manage 6-9 without much effort. Hawes does deserve blame here, and he’s running out of time to improve. Yes, he’s 21 but he’s already in his third year. My only hope is that JT improves next year, and the Kings get a big.

by amonk81 on Mar 8, 2010 3:52 PM PST reply actions  

the Kings are tanking

the data you’re using is unreliable

by Pollard4LIfe on Mar 8, 2010 5:25 PM PST reply actions  

Great post...numbers to back up what I see....

Question
What does Spencer have to do or not do RIGHT NOW (forget that “he’s only 21….22…23…” for a sec) for fans to say it’s time to let this guy go and deal him?
For the sake of the Kings, I want him to do better…but I can’t see it….

by getPGwithbounce on Mar 8, 2010 5:32 PM PST reply actions  

You are a funny, persistent little troll.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Mar 8, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll admit that at times he could have tried harder, but

for the most part he’s seldom in position to rebound because of the Kings offense and how other teams attack us.

On offense Spencer is the only big that goes away from the basket to set screens out high. And, the Kings offense is set to have Tyreke and Landry go one on one and attack the basket. This means that Hawes has to move away from the basket to draw the center away from the rim and open the lane for his teammates.

On defense, teams run the high pick & roll against Tyreke because he’s bad an getting thru the screens, and since they use their center to set the screens, Spencer is again pulled away from the rim.

JR made several comments during the game about Spencer’s good plays and how they don’t show up in the box scores. I thought there were about 4 or 5 times where he didn’t fight for good position or just watched and didn’t try to get into the battle. But, it was debateable whether it would have made a difference, because OKC always seemed to have 4 players in the paint going for the ball.

Early in the season, we were one of the top rebounding teams in the league. It wasn’t a drop off on Spencer’s part that changed that. The Kings as a team need to step up their rebounding.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Mar 9, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

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