Darren Collison
by ivAAron on Mar 8, 2010 8:33 PM PST
Email
PrintDon't post that often here on StR but I appreciate reading most of the savy, and well thought out opinions, as well as reading embarrassing posts by certain Miami Heat fans.
Anyway, just thinking out loud. What does a team do in New Orleans position, with an All-Star stud PG in Chris Paul, and obviously a ridiculous talent in rookie Darren Collison (who is averaging 19.0pts, 8.3assists, 3.6rebs, 1.6steals, and a lowly 4TOs a game as a starter). Anyone would love this kid on their team, and I drool a little bit thinking about a Collison/Evans backcourt based on NBA potential (whether they would be a great fit together would remain to be seen). So what is his value to NO? Does he stay there and continue to back up Paul when he's back and healthy? Seems more oppropriate to strike while the iron is hot and get something in return in a position where you don't already have an All Star playing. So if he was to be shopped around, what is his value, and what would a team have to give up? Not advocating we make some crazy trade for him, just trying to satisfy my own curiousity for now. Thanks guys.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
68 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
why trade collison?
if the hornets were to trade either paul or collison (which i think is HIGHLY unlikely)
then i see little reason not to trade paul instead
paul has a bigger contract, and new orleans is desperately trying to save money
and the hornets would probably get more back for paul than collison
but all in all i dont think either would get traded
the Hornets trying to save money by trading Paul
would be like the Lakers trying to save money by getting rid of Kobe.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
no way
i completely disagree with that.
The Hornets have a highly capable replacement for Paul in Collison, and imagine what they could get back for Paul in a trade….
The Lakers cannot replace Kobe
by Surprise Team on Mar 9, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Crazy talk
Saying that Darren Collison can replace Chris Paul is like saying that Jamal Crawford could replace Joe Johnson. Paul is a former rookie of the year, a 3-time NBA all star, an all defensive team member, a gold medal winner, an MVP candidate. Collison is a rookie who has had a nice run as a starter, but as good as he has been he is not in the same zip code with Paul.
Paul is a franchise player. You don’t trade a franchise player unless he forces you to. Ask the Bucks how the Kareem Jabbar trade worked out for them. And if the Hornets can’t afford a Chris Paul, they should just fold up shop or rename themselves the Pittsburgh Pirates.
I mean no disrespect here – my reaction is to all who suggest that the Hornets trade their franchise player and one of the premier players in the league because Darren Collison has dished out some assists for 15 minutes.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I would not be displease if CP3 had to ply his trade in the 206 in a couple years. I can tell you that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
displeased^
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
i agree
that trading Paul it crazy… sends a bad message to the fans, and is just silly. I agree with a few other posters that now would be a good time to try and package him with Okafor for some decent talent, and some much needed cap relief. Anyone wanna entertain some possible trade scenarios for Okafor/Collison to the Kings?? I’d like to hear a few where the $$ and talent add up.
I don't believe that we have what they would want
Trading Paul for anything less than a top ten player would be balls-out crazy. We do not have anything close to a top ten player. Evans is probably a top 50 player at this point, but I doubt that he would crack the top 25.
You trade David West or Okafor if you want cap relief, but you don’t trade your franchise player. Not for a sack of magic beans, anyway. And the Kings roster today is largely magic beans.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
wasnt looking
to make an offer for CP3.. was looking at trade options for the Collison/Okafor package deal. NO wants Cap relief and Okafors contract does suck, but he can help us in the middle if we arent going to land anyone this summer (he was already mentioned as an option earlier), and adding Collison with him makes the trade tolerable for me. So what would we be giving up to get this package was my question… I think packaging Collison’s upside and cheap price tag with Okafor’s, errr rebounding? Is a decent acquisition for the Kings. What would we give up?
As well...
a lot of grumblings that guys wouldn’t want to play with Tyreke, because he is ball dominant and NaPG. What a perfect fit Emeka would be then, since he doesn’t touch to the ball to much on offense, but is a good finisher along with his other obvious set of skills (D/Reb/Blocks)
What guys wouldn't want to play with Tyreke?
Do you have any names?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Guys who wanna be the star of their team.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Ah -
If the Hornets are truly looking to deal Okafor and I am the Kings, I would deal a future 2nd round pick for Emeka and they could keep Collison. The Kings could turn around and deal Thompson or Hawes, and their front line would now be Okafor/Landry/TBD. That gives you rebounding, shot blocking, low post scoring. Okafor is slightly overpriced but not obscenely overpriced, and the Kings could afford to do this (by cap standards, anyway). The problem is, with the current CBA getting ready to expire, do the Kings want to invest in any long term contracts?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
No interest
In collison? Really? And how do u offer a future second round pick for Okafor straight up? Don’t contract $$ have to add up? Only way I’d take his contract is if they throw in Collison. And I’d part with anyone but casspi, Evans, or landry.
by ivAAron on Mar 10, 2010 5:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's not that I don't have interest
But Collison is inexpensive talent, and New Orleans won’t deal him easily.
And the contracts don’t have to add up because the Kings are so far under the cap. This is the same way that the Clippers got Camby for a 2nd round pick. In fact, Phoenix sent Kurt Thomas and a couple of 1st round picks to Seatlle in the same type of deal. I could more easily see New Orleans dealing Okafor and a 1st round pick than Okafor and Collison.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
gotcha
i learned something new. So since we are gonna be $16mil under the cap, we can take on around that in new contracts in a trade without giving up much? I wouldnt say they are giving Collison away easily, Okafor does have quite a big, and lengthy, contract. Silly to trade CP3 cause he is worth ever penny of his big contract, so it doesnt make sense to have great star potential back up an All star when you could use him to get rid of your worst contract (Okafor), and maybe get someone like JT in return… Collison/Okafor for JT? Landry is already gonna take JTs minutes and isnt worth as much to us as he was b4 we traded Kmart 4 Landry…
Interesting concept
I still think that they could unload Okafor for a 2nd round pick (if not to us, then someone else), and that they could get more in a separate deal for Collison than JT. But you never know – a month ago I wouldn’t have believed that we would trade Martin for Landry.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm amazed at the drama that Kevin Martin has created.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
no trade
my first point is that i dont think either SHOULD or WILL be traded, i reiterated that twice in my first comment
i am saying that if paul were to be traded, the hornets would be in a better position to replace him than lebron leaving the cavs or kobe leaving the lakers, which i think you would agree on.
by Surprise Team on Mar 10, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed on that
The Cavs have gone “all in.” If they lose LeBron they are screwed.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The difference is that the Cavs have made moves to appease LeBron.
They just haven’t resulted in rings yet.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Pardon my grammar
I don’t think they would do this, but it could help both teams
by White Brocklate on Mar 8, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
Are you trying to set an example for "Surprise Team"?
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I agree that there's a chance they don't keep both but Paul could just as likely go...
But this might not come up for another couple years. In two years if it seems like Paul will opt out of his contract they’ll probably trade Paul so they don’t lose him for nothing. I’m sure they’ll move collison if the right offer comes around but he’s just a rookie and NO doesn’t have any glaring weakness…they are just a middling team.
Collison would probably work decently with Tyreke but then the Tyreke Evans point guard experiment would be effectively be over.
Collison had 20 assists tonight
TWENTY!
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
look at the boxscore of that game
135 – 131 NOH over GSW. 38 assists for NOH. 38!
Both teams shot nearly 59% for the game.
3 pt % 45% and 52%.
A defense battle to the end. Oh, and new D-League call up Reggie Williams tied for game high honors with 28 points.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 8, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
I tuned into that game towards the end and the announcers were saying that the score keepers really didn't know what an assist was in that game.
Maybe someone had Collison on their fantasy team..
They said it reminded them of this guy:
http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper
But I don’t know, I wasn’t watching.
Wow, great artivle
That really deserves it’s own fanpost or something. Pretty crazy.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Mar 8, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
To me it explains how Bibby averaged 8 assists per game in Vancouver.
I’ve seen that guy play many times, no way it gets that many dishes.
He had a different role in Vancouver
He’s a much better passer than he gets credit for.
Very interesting - it answers a lot of questions I have been asking myself about the stats.
I’v wondered:
- who records the stats
- the accuracy of the stats
- whether there is a system which verifies the stats
- how is an assist recorded
- who gets credit for the rebound if two players have the ball, and one gives it up to the other
It is certainly reassuring to know that the stats are probably inaccurate, there may be bias by the crew recording the stats, that how an assist is counted can vary depending upon how it is announced,and that the person who ends up with the rebound may not be the one who gets the credit for it.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
sure he had 20
but if he passed me the ball, I could have scored against the warriors too.
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
I did actually score against them.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Darren Collison's stretch this month has been amazing
I always considered myself a Darren Collison fan and yet I still underestimated how good he’d be right away.
I think he’d be pretty good with Evans because he can be sort of a better Beno – shooting and distributing, which is probably the type of point guard you’d need to pair with Tyreke if you’re going to use him as a SG.
Of course, I’m still holding out hope for John Wall.
I forgot who posted about assists a while back
but he was dead on for showing it was an overrated stat.
Well, I agree with what people are saying here:
CP3 will get them more, and assists can be subjective and somewhat overrated.
Still, Collison looks decent. If you were New Orleans, would you shop Chris Paul just a little, just to see what the market was? Maybe you gain some picks, some good young stars, some financial flexibility? If you are the Griizzlies, why wouldn’t you offer Conley, sign-and-trade of Gay, 2 of your 3 picks this year and one future?
This is an interesting storyline. I don’t know if it is worth trading Chris Paul, the best point guard in the game when he is healthy. But maybe New Orleans realizes they have lost ground in the West, that they need to plan ahead, and they pull a Pau-for-what?! type maneuver that helps in the long run.
As long as he doesn’t go to the Lakers.
The Kings, however, do not have nearly enough to offer, for either Collison or Paul. Sorry. Tyreke is off limits.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I think what is more likely
is that they use Collison as bait to be able to unload one of their bad contracts, I’m looking at you Emeka Okafor. If the Kings are willing to take on Okafor’s contract I bet we could get Collison. The question becomes how do we make that happen this summer (and do we want to) with Beno, Chapu and El Flaco having descent sized contracts but still having multiple years left.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Mar 9, 2010 1:04 AM PST up reply actions
Collison is a bit of a result of the system
all of the players on that team need to be set up. Collison is a super smart, quick PG that can shoot. Since the team was built around Chris Paul, I think it makes it easier for someone like Collison to step in and play really well.
As far as a trade goes, I could see them trading Collison/Okafor for for a Thomspon/Noc kind of deal. It would save them a ton of money, and get the kings 2 pieces they could really use. But for the record, I wouldn’t do it
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
I would make that trade
Dumping Noc’s salary makes Okafor’s much less damning to take back
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
I think I would too.
Collison/Udrih
Evans/Garcia
Casspi/Greene
Landry/Dorsey
Okafor/Hawes
That lineup has some interesting potential.
A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...
Lets not forget
Collison is only 22 years old, so he’d fit the youth movement.
I like the guy’s talent, but I’d wonder about his effectiveness playing alongside Evans. Both seem like guys who will run the offense, and I do like his ability to shoot. I forget who mentioned this above, but he does seem like a better Beno.
Defensively, if Evans and Collison were to pair up, it’d seem like Evans would have to guard opposing SGs, as Collison lacks ideal size for that role. I’m not sure which way I lean on this.
I haven't watched him, but he sounds great!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
collison would also bring an extra defensive dimension to the team...
At UCLA he was consistently one of our on the ball best defenders and currently the kings do not have anyone to guard those quick speedy penetrating point guards.
Thank YOU
Collison is a GREAT Perimeter Defender..Hey wtf is up with Bruin Basketball this year?
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
lets see....
the 2008 #1 recruiting class was over-rated and the NBA happened
Jrue Holiday would be a sophomore, Klove a junior, westbrook a senior…we just couldn’t reload fast enough
Next year looks promising…watch out for Tyler Honeycutt to shoot up the draft boards in 2011…
Tyler Honeycutt?
Sounds like the love child of Tyler Hansbrough and Pete Chilcutt.
"You know what I consider mentally weak? Using your audience to settle a grudge with someone who had the audacity to publicly call you on your sh*t. The only thing more offensive is that Napear thinks we're all too stupid to see it for what it is." - TZ, Sactown Royalty
Collison's great play this year shouldn't mean that New Orleans should shop Paul
In fact they now have someone who can keep Paul more rested. Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA. Collison is good, a starter on quite a few teams, but no way is New Orleans trading Chris Paul because his backup is good.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I didnt
think NO would trade their franchise player just because their backup rookie was looking very promising. That happens you might as well just blow up the whole team and start all over around this kid, cause the alternative is handing the captain reigns over to either West/Peja/ or Okafor?!? Doubt the fans will like that.
I agree with Travis Mays Hays that a likely trade would have to involve getting rid of one of their bad contracts like Okafor, and in return you are basically taking close to the same money off the books and keeping your Franchise PG.
As far as keeping him around to have your Star rested, that seems more like a waste of talent and potential. You keep him around in the off chance CP3 gets hurt again, or doesn’t feel like playing 38-40min a game? CP is a star and doesn’t want to sit the bench healthy and watch a kid take his spotlight or minutes.
Id definately swap JT/Nocioni for Collison/Okafor… hell it looked like we were almost gonna pick him up before, but if hes packaged with this kid it makes it a little easier.. I hate Noc, and while it would be tough to part with JT, the addition of Landry may have already spelled doom for his future growth here at the PF spot. I didnt originally post this as an assinine trade thread but I like the Collison/Okafor for JT/Noc swap… BOOK IT
I definately said the Kings should draft this guy back in June.
Omar Minaya is my hero!
"I'm not even allowed in Mexico."
Instead of Evans?
He was gone by the time we drafted Casspi.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I was for Collison at #31 if he was available
But I actually wanted us to take Casspi at 23.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
A Evans/Collison backcourt could grow to be the best in the NBA
great value at #21
Hornets perspective
Hey guys I know I’m a little late to the game on this but I just wanted to give my thoughts from a Hornets perspective. We are really enjoying the suprising play of Darren “Lil Dimes” Collison and Marcus “Lil Buckets” Thornton. I really think we need to trade Darren this summer though. He has been fantastic but his value would be limited next year.
Specifically as to Okafor, remember how hard it is to find a good 2 way center. Meka is overpaid, but his skill set is unique in the NBA. You don’t just trade him for scrap. If we trade one of our veterans for cap space it will be David West. West’s skils are easier to replicate than Okafor’s and his contract is more manageable for interested teams. Yes, I know we tried to trade Chandler, but has anyone seen how injured he’s been? Can anyone say they wouldn’t have made that trade? Place we were in a very different place last year regarding our expiring contracts and I’m pretty sure we could have gotten a good defensive center on the cheap (Dalember, Diop…).
And as for trading Chris Paul…absolutely won’t happen unless he demands a trade period. Folks keep talking about NO’s money problems but I guarantee you they would be even worse without Paul. He is buy far New Orleans’ best draw, and the face of basketball down there. You can’t just replace that with other good players. It takes GREAT and Marketable players. Think about what happened in Philadelphia. Even with mediocre but young talented playoff teams they still couldn’t pack their stadium after Iverson left. The same would happen in NO.
Now having said all of that, what about this trade proposal…
Collison for Jason Thompson and Donte Green.
You guys get a great pairing next to Evans. DC is a good young point guard with high level defensive skills. I know folks are worried about taking the ball out of his hands but folks forget that he has played very well next to Marcus Thornton and David West who both take lots of shots and generate alot of there own offense. I really like JT and Donte’s games but I think both are destined to paly backup minutes next year. I could be wrong but it seems like JT is a bit more comfy at the 4 and Carl Landry wil get those minutes. As for Donte, everyone knows he’s a 3 even though he’s had some success at the 2. But Casspi seems like the small forward of the future. Thoughts?
Collison for Thompson and Greene?
Sign me up…that would be trading two of our top bench players for your top bench player (potential starter for us) and leave our roster short of 1 big which we could address in the draft.
Next year we’d still have
Evans/Cisco
Collison/Beno
Casspi/Noc
Landry/Brockman & Dorsey
Hawes/Brockman & Dorsey
I would do this as well
Downside? The (once again) devaluation of Beno Udrih.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Perhaps...but we know what Beno is capable of...
and Collison could even come off the bench….or Beno could make a run at 6th man with enough minutes.
It’s important to have quality pg guards…if Beno becomes our third best guard thats a positive for us. Right now if Beno or Tyreke went down we’d be lost.
I would do this in a second
I think it makes perfect sense for the Kings as we have a log jam at the small forward and can replace JT with a power forward in the draft.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Mar 14, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Sactown Royalty
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
