The Draft
by elSAVinator on Mar 9, 2010 4:13 PM PST
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I was thinking about the draft and how most people seem to want to follow the Blazers and Thunder and build through the draft. I think this is going to be a really good draft, with the potential to be 10-20 really solid players, with 3 or 4 stars. I started to think about teams that have won championships during the last 5-8 years or so. What I found is that you need more then just draft picks to be good.
The Lakers last year won the championship with Kobe and Bynum, who they drafted, but their other major pieces are Odom and Gasol both who were traded for. Boston the year before when they won consisted of the big 3. Pierce was drafted, but the other two main studs were traded for. Miami drafted Wade, but trade for Shaq (when he was still a stud), GP and Zo came from other teams the year before as well. The team that did the most through the draft was the Spurs. They got lucky with being able to draft Timmy, but Parker and Manu could have been drafted by any team, because they were very late picks. Even Detroit, with all those Eastern confrence championships, only core player that was drafted was Prince. Rasheed and Rip cam via trade, Big ben and chauncy were signed. You could even go to New Jersey when they made two finals in a row. Kidd, VC were not drafted, while KMART (I know) and RJ were.
I am excited about the draft as much as anyone else, but I'm starting to get a little worried about following the plans of the blazers and the Thunder who have collectively won 0 series in the playoffs. Don't get me wrong I think the Thunder are going to be great, but they might be the exception and not the rule. Eventually we are going to have to make a big trade that will probably include some of our beloved young guys. It seems a for gone conclusion that we can't sign any top studs, but the right combination of free agents, and a couple key trades and we could be right there. GP is way smarter then me though and it will be interesting too see if he can build a contender in Sac, with a different style of play.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Just a little nitpick.
But the Lakers actually traded for Kobe. They Sent Divac to Charlotte for his rights after Kobe made it clear that he would not report. If my memory serves at least.
As for your point, I tend to agree. The draft often times provides the base, but eventually you’ll need to make a trade or a big free agent signing to push your team over the top.
A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...
The Thunder have had 4 top 5 picks in three seaons
The Blazers a #1 in 2007 with Rookie of the Year winning in 2007. They got the #4 pick in 2006 (Ty Thomas) who they traded for the #2 Lamarcus Aldridge.
When the Kings get 3 or 4 top 5 picks in two or three seasons consecutively, we can talk.
by betweentheeyes on Mar 9, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly why the Thunder ae the exception
Im just saying lets not put all our marbles into building through the draft. Getting 3 0r 4 top 5 picks is probably not going to happen. Look forward too you responding in two or three seasons
And the Blazers were able to trade Sebastian Telfair for Brandon Roy too.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
On draft day.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I thought it was Roy for Foye
And Aldridge for Thomas.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yeah but the Blazers also traded Telfair and that's how they got Foye.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Here's how it worked
Blazers traded Telfair to Boston for the rights to Foye and then swapped the rights to Foye for Roy’s rights.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Upgrade to Upgrade to Upgrade
Craziness.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yes. Craziness indeed.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
trading the pick...free agency--ideals?
I agree with the premise and think trading the Kings pick may be the best option. The Kings (and fans) should play the game of who on Earth would be —next year and beyond —the best co-guard with Evans in the backcourt, assuming Beno off the bench (and perhaps Garcia as a temperary 4rth while playing lots of 3 if he remains a King)? I tend toward the Clipper’s Gordon. For the guards, Garcia could emerge as a great defensive spot team-mate with Evans in those key playoff hold our lead situations. Would our #1 for Gordon be worth it? Throw in Garcia or Omri or Greene?
The Kings small forward, power forward and center should be much improved next year, hopefully with significant increases in strength, speed, quickness and endurance (Hawes). Most agree one key addition to this corps linked with quality 2 makes this team a contender. I think Gordon and then work Petrie magic to trade for Noah followed by an extension. For that trade I am willing to give up 2012 #1 and Omri (preferably Greene).
That said, I do think Greene has great upside and look forward to watching the (assumed) trajectory of his improved overall game.
I would trade our #1 pick for Noah
Any big we draft aside from maybe, MAYBE Cousins will take a few years(atleast) to develop. Noah is a barely 25 year old, ready to play, great(or soon to be) starting center. I would even take Deng off their hands if they took back Noce. Maybe throw in Greene, Hawes & take Chicago’s 1st rounder(16-18).
Beno/Chi’s 1st rd pick
Tyreke/Cisco
Deng/Casspi
Landry/JT
Noah/JT or Chi’s 1st rd pick
I love beating dead horses.
Even considering Noah's foot problems?
He could be heading down Tyson Chandler Road.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Nothing the "Good Feet" store can't fix
Seriously that is a valid concern.
I love beating dead horses.
Really?
That’s the best you got? Ok, I know you are but what am I? My dad can beat your dad up. You had enough? I got more.
I love beating dead horses.
Nope. Gimmie more.
Our #1 this year could be top 5. Noah wasn’t even a top 5 pick in the year he was drafted. He was picked 9th in ’07. And if you really believe Noah is going to be a “great” center you are going to be disappointed. He does rebound well and plays solid defense. But that does not make one a “great” center. So I say again to you good sir…PUT THE PIPE DOWN.
in allbenji's defense
Great rebounding and solid defense may not make a “great” center by generic NBA standards (whatever that may be), but that could be great for us.
I’m not sure his original draft position has much relevance, especially now. Our potential top 5 pick could turn out to be great, or maybe not…it depends on what you’re willing to take right now. I think Noah could be great on our team, especially alongside Landry. I’m not sure I’d do our #1 pick for Noah straight up (especially considering we don’t know what it is yet), but depending on what pick we get and who Chicago would want to deal, I don’t think its entirely out of the question.
Agreed, Noah's rebounding and defense
would help the Kings. But there’s no way i’m giving up a potential top 5 pick for him. We could land a more dynamic big with that pick. And we might not. I get that. But to me Noah’s is what he is. He’s a defensive big. Which is not bad. He just doesn’t have enough of a well rounded game on both ends of the court to justify giving up a potential top 5 pick.
I mean really…what’s the difference between Noah and Verajao??
I would take either one on the Kings
I would trade our pick for Noah if our pick was somewhere between 5-10 and they included their 1st rd pick as well. Chances of them wanting to do this however is probably 0. If our pick was a top 5 it would be a different story, but im not sure I would give it up
Thanks for elaborating steven
It’s a lot better than just saying “put the pipe down”. I don’t know how many “well rounded” centers there are in the league. Actually the best centers aren’t “well rounded”. Is Dwight Howard well rounded? Kendrick Perkins? Brendan Haywood? Andrew Bogut is pretty well rounded. That’s good but so is Spencer Hawes.
I understand not giving up a John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, or Demarcus Cousins for Noah but anyone else in the draft I would trade in a heartbeat. Actually I might even give up a Favors or Cousins. Although that might be a little risky based on his foot problems like 214 pointed out.
I love beating dead horses.
What worries me is
that the Kings are probably not really in a position to follow any other pattern. I’ve seen many analysts talk about how the draft is over-hyped and should only be used to help add to your roster, but not build it. The problem is that for most smaller market teams, all they can do is try to get lucky in the draft because it takes alot of money to trade and sign for a competitive team. Also, most players good enough to make a team competitive will choose the big cities over the small ones, so options for the Kings are pretty limited. Hopefully, we can get lucky with the draft, (such as the Thunder and Blazers), build a reputation and bring in some revenue, then do what we did back in the “Glory Days” and bring in some big names to be really competitive. It will take a while but it is the only way I can see being competitive again.
Why does Grant Napear STILL HAVE A JOB???
by prowseinthehouse on Mar 9, 2010 9:49 PM PST reply actions
The plight of the small market.
They’re used as farm teams for the big dogs. It happens everywhere. Ask the early-2000’s Athletics. Or pretty much any Argentinian or Brazilian soccer club.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Mar 10, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
What about Joe Johnson
I think he would fit very nicely with Tyreke and Carl. There only so many max contracts to go around. He plays good D and hits big shots. He can also create offense for himself, which is something the kings really don’t have, beside Tyreke and Carl.
If he doesn't stay in the ATL
JJ is not coming here. There are going to be at least three teams off the top of my head with max money who would gladly settle for him as their 2nd choice: Chicago, NY and Detroit. I think the list is actually quite longer. He is going to be the guy who makes bank on all these teams clearing space – and in the end I’ll bet he stays in Atlanta.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 9, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
Johnson turned down a 4 year $60 million dollar extension from ATL
There is no way he would leave a winning team that was built around him to go to a small market losing team & I’m glad.
I love beating dead horses.
say no to JJ
Look at micheal finley and JJ career numbers and you will see that JJ has about 2 good years left and not worth the max money.
History of erratic behavior...
He left the suns when they were awesome, and consisted of nash, marion, amare and leandro to go to ATL who sucked.
by elSAVinator on Mar 10, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
A Trade
After watching Hawes do nothing on the boards again, makes me wonder about Emeka again. I know people don’t like his contract, but a trade of Noc and Hawes would be close enough salary wise where nothing would change. Emeka is owed 11.5mil, where Noc and Hawes are bout 9.5 to10mil combined. You might have to throw in Dorsey as well to make the salaries match up. That being said, Tyreke, Landry, Emeka, with a high draft pick and a max contract still to give out, we could have a much improve unit next year.
Hawes had 9 boards - not suckage
(Not that I wouldn’t have to think about Okafor)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 9, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions
Hawes, JT, Nocioni, our 2010 & 2012 1st rounders for Okafor & CP3
Huge salary dump for probably a non-playoff team. They can start over & build around Collison, Thornton, Favors/Cousins/Turner/ETC., & maybe even JT & Hawes. Plus the 2012 pick, their own 2010 pick (12-16), & some cap space especially when Peja comes off.
Collison
Thornton/Turner?
Peja/Noce
West/JT/Favors?/
Hawes/Cousins?/JT
They would be pretty bad next year but that would just get them another high pick in 2011 plus Peja would be coming off the books. They won’t do this but it would be the smart way to go IMO.
That would give us a line-up of
CP3/Beno
Tyreke/Cisco
Casspi/Greene
Landry/Greene/May
Okafor/May/Dorsey?
I love beating dead horses.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pipe+dream
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
right!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 11, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
don't mess with the fantasy!
Will be sipping virgin peach cocktails with Mark S. Allen, Grant Napear, and Tyreke Evans when the Kings win the championship.
by Pollard4LIfe on Mar 15, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
You're probably right
but Pau Gasol in his prime for Kwame Brown & a relativly unknown prospect late 2nd round pick in Marc Gasol sounds like a pipe dream also. Please save your" but Marc Gasol is good" arguments. God I hate those. Don’t tell me Chris Wallace knew what he was getting that was a salary dump & a Jerry West/NBA influenced favor for the Lakers plain & simple.
I love beating dead horses.
no love for Brockman in the depth chart?
by Pollard4LIfe on Mar 11, 2010 1:04 AM PST up reply actions
No reason to pick up Brockmans option
with that much depth. I love Brockmans spirit. He is a great guy to have around but he will never be anything more than a Mark Madsen. Love the Carls Jr. commercial though
I love beating dead horses.
draft first
Once you get the base talent and they grow together then you make the trade to add the final piece. You will never get a player good enough to be the base in a trade before having built through the draft. Especially for a small market like sac. We can’t follow the laker pathway it’s just not possible. So we draft a great compliment to tyreke see where jason, spencer and carl end up and as they grow then add the final piece for the big push. building a championship team is a multiyear process and we are at most in year two but more likely in year one of that rebuilding process.
by bioecon on Mar 9, 2010 11:47 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Process
I was just thinking that you can always speed up the process with assets you have now. Tyreke and Carl are upper-tier talent right now, just like Wade was when he won the title (with a limited jump-shot). You package a couple young guys up right now, with good upside, like DG, Hawes and Thompson and you could probably get someone pretty damn good in return. I would only do it if it is a good fit with Landry and Tyreke, because their ready to be great now and need some other pieces that are as well. I don’t mind being patient though and seeing if it works out. A lot of prospects value however will never higher then when they show flashes of brilliance, because no knows if they will ever be able to do it it consistently. That’s what makes players great is the ability to be consistent, and Tyreke and Landry are already there.
by elSAVinator on Mar 10, 2010 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
speeding up the process...
I think I heard Petrie mention that preseason. But like you said, it’s gotta be a good fit….and for the right price. The focus should be on the draft when the picks are high. I’m concerned about how much the Kings are going to pay Landry in the not so distant future if they decide to keep him…you can’t keep him at a bargain forever.
by getPGwithbounce on Mar 10, 2010 12:56 AM PST up reply actions
Landry won't get more than
A 3 year $18 million dollar deal. He will be 28 or so, with possible knee problems in the future. Keep in mind Shereef was 28 when we signed him. The Reef signing would have still been a good deal if it were for 3 years opposed to 5. Hopefully Petrie has learned his lesson. This is another reason why I think there will be major moves soon. If Petrie likes Landry as much as we think he does he only has about about a 2 year window to make this team a contender. That would give us 2 more good years of Landry & 1 year of Reke before he is up for a huge contract & possibly signing somewhere else if this team doesn’t start winning & winning big.
I love beating dead horses.
Now I'm more concerned....
Here’s to hoping that:
1) Kings get either Favors or Whiteside and…
2) whoever the Kings pick , that player lives up to expectations …fast…
by getPGwithbounce on Mar 11, 2010 12:53 AM PST up reply actions
OR Landry could just be entering his prime
For a lot of guys, thats the 28-31 years
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 11, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
Go back a little elSav.
The Spurs drafted Robinson, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili which you can’t just dismiss.
The Rockets drafted Akeem and then he became Hakeem but I think that still counts. They also drafted Horry and Cassell and Carl Hererra was acquired before he played a game elsewhere.
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen (via draft day trade), Scott Williams, BJ Armstrong, Stacy King, and Horace Grant highlited the Bulls first Championship run.
There is no exact science here. There was a stretch from 1993-2005 where either Robert Horry or Steve Kerr won a championship every year except once. Maybe the Kings should pull these two out of retirement and keep their fingers crossed.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
There is no exact science here
+1 JJ
This discussion comes at least once a year, usually when we realize that once again we are out of contention. At the moment we drafted our best player, traded for our second best, and drafted our third best. We will once again have a top draft pick and the money to sign or trade for another top player. Portland has traded for Miller, Camby, and as was pointed out, Roy. Nobody drafts an entire team, and very few teams have enough money or clout to build a top team without good draft picks. You can make a case for title winning teams playing mostly offense, or defense. You can show how top teams always have an all star. There are a bunch of ways to slice and dice chamionship teams. But the truth is that there is no hard and fast rule. Fun to talk about though.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
I mentioned that
who got lucky that Robinson went down so they could get Duncan. Manu was a second rd pick and Parker was a late 1st rounder. So my point was they didn’t do it with a bunch of lottery picks, while being consistently bad. They still added draft pieces, but didn’t have to go through the losing pains and build around him with high draft picks. Manu and Parker could have been drafted by any team, not just teams with top 5, or lottery picks.
by elSAVinator on Mar 10, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
The Kings need talent, that’s the key, this appears to be a deep draft, last year was supposedly weak draft and look who the Kings got Tyreke. Sadly the Kings being the Kings are not the most desirable free agent destination I’d think they’d need to trade for player rather than getting them to sign here as a free agent. The Kings should be in lottery who is to say they can’t get an Turner or a Wall?
With the upcoming contract dispute I would suggest there will be moving back of player remuneration, along with that willl be shorter deals and maybe a way to get of deals with players who are injured or just can’t play anymore. This would teams avoid the really bad contracts and the situation of trading expiring contracts for cap room Wouldn’t this be a good thing for the league as more teams will be more profitable? I’d be very reluctant to take on any long term contracts as if the luxury tax gets lowered some one like Okafor would be a bad fit for the Kings, who will have him on their cap
I think Evans is a bit of a wild card in that while he is talented noone really knows how his game will develop, hopefully he learns some court awareness and improves his jumpshot but what say neither of these things happen, he’d be a hard guy to play with. I’m not saying that will happen but who knows, what say the Kings draft Wall and think he is better than Evans but realise these guys can’t play together. The Kings should be lucky enough to have such problems
won't happen
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Mar 11, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Just say no to Motiejunas
We need a big man who can play defense and rebound, not have attitude problems and weigh less than our point guard.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
heres what i would do
draft whiteside. whiteside, JT, and hawes make up our front court with the first 2 starting. trade landry for first rounder around pick 20 or so and get our future small forward. my choice would be paul george. take our complementary SG in the second round. basically a good cutter, catch and shoot guy who plays very good d (and is decently sized). this will force teams to really pick their poison defending tyreke.
theres definitely some other ways of going about this. I think whiteside is the key so he stays. but, we could trade landry for someone like ariza.
by WiltonDeportes on Mar 14, 2010 11:43 PM PDT reply actions
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