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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

How to best improve the team this offseason?

As I see it, we now have a team that revolves around Tyreke, so the question then becomes," What players will work well with Tyreke?"  In essence, we need to look at how best to leverage his talents and hide his weaknesses.

To do so, we need to look at Reke's strengths and weaknesses (objectively) to better understand what pieces are needed to be successful. When I look Tyreke, I see a player that is great at driving and finishing at the rim; good at driving and kicking to perimeter shooters; poor at shooting from outside and (at this point) limited in terms of playmaking.

Star-divide

He may become a better playmaker (he has already improved greatly from the beginning of the season), but at this point, he still has a long way to go. I don't want to start another argument over what his true position is (that's not my objective here), but if you are Geoff Petrie, you really do need to ask yourself, "Do we try to put more of a pass-first point guard next to Tyreke or do we put a more traditional two guard (that shoots well from outside) next to him and hope he develops more evolved passing abilities.

I am thinking that we need to go with more of a playmaker. Why, you ask?  Well, currently, we have a point guard in Beno playing next to him, and this works relatively well. Prior to this arrangement, we had a sweet shooting traditional two (Kevin Martin) next to him, and things just never clicked. Had we given it more time, Reke and Kevin might have worked better, but the offense usually stagnated when the two were on the floor together.

If we are to luck out and get a top pick, which way should we go? I don't really see Reke and John Wall as a great fit because their skills are so similar. Both are great in the open floor and a handful driving to the basket, but neither has a consistent outside shot or great playmaking skills (both are willing passers, but they don't make others better with their passing). I might consider trading Wall, if we were lucky enough to get the first pick, for Stephen Curry (I would try to get more than just Curry, but I think he is a better fit). Similarly, I don't see Evan Turner as a great complement as he is more of a shooting guard that creates for his teammates, drives well, but needs the ball in his hands to be effective (in essence, he is the Tyreke Evans of the 2010 draft).

Similarly, what type of a big man would work better with Tyreke? Cousins or Favors? As I see it, Cousins may be the better fit because he is the type of guy you dump the ball into whereas Favors may be less likely to create with his back to the basket. That being said, Favors could be the defensive, shot blocking presence we have always needed.

So if you ran the Kings and could call the shot on draft day, what would you do?

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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I'd draft Derrick Favors.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 11, 2010 5:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Wha.....?

I had no idea you liked Favors. When did this happen?

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 11, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

September.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 11, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

And there goes Pookey down the sarchasm.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 11, 2010 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha. :)

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 11, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tyreke: "We gonna draft Wall n' trade him for Curry, I heard makes great sandwiches"

“Oh, and don’t worry, I’ve got this Geoff Petrie guy under my thumb”

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 11, 2010 7:43 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

love that pic, the look, the caption.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on Apr 12, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rumored that TWolves are placing Love on the trading block.

Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.

by elfboy_ on Apr 11, 2010 8:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Why would anyone want Love

When no one wants Lee. They are very similar players imo. I know he is much cheaper but that will change in 2 more seasons. Oh yeah & Lee is 5 times better now.

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Apr 12, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Love & Lee

Love: 21 yrs. $3.4m.
Season: 14.2ppg, 11.0rpg, 28.8mins
Career: 12.4ppg, 9.9rpg, 26.8mins

Lee: 26yrs. $7.0m.
Season: 20.2ppg, 11.8rpg, 37.4mins
Career: 12.9ppg, 9.6rpg, 30.0mins

I would love (no pun intended) if Lee chose to come here, but there’s no harm in looking at other players too right?

Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.

by elfboy_ on Apr 12, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course

I would love to have either one

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Apr 12, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would draft the best player available

If that player is Aminu or Johnson, for example, you still draft him. As of today, we are loaded with wing players, but not necessarily stud wing players.

Look to free agency/trades to shore up the middle. Even if we draft a big, he will not have the NBA game (or reputation – see referees) to instantly defend the paint.

If a long term solution cannot be found in free agency/trade, look into obtaining Dalembert or Chandler for a 2nd round pick or similar. Both Charlotte and Philly have rather high payrolls, and they might make a deal like that to save some big bucks. Both players are expiring contract, so you are basically renting their services and then entering the 2011 free agent market with considerable space.

The Kings will be better next year because:
Evans will be better.
Odds are that Landry will continue to improve his game (he has improved every year so far, and now he is a starter). There is no reason that Landry cannot become a Carlos Boozer-type talent.
One of the youngsters (Hawes, Thompson, Greene or Casspi) will break out. I have no idea which one, but one of them will take their game to the next level.

I caution anyone that thinks that the rookie pick (unless it is Wall or Turner) will have an Evans-like impact on this team. Even Cousins and Favors are projects. I’m thinking Omri Casspi-type contribution.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 11, 2010 8:06 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I second your last comment

Evans rookie production is extremely rare. People aren’t making a big deal out of 20-5-5 for no reason. However, the new rookie coming in wont have to perform like ’reke has to make an impact. He just needs to fill his role.

by sac_faithful on Apr 11, 2010 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Turner & Cousins will have an immediate impact

Cousins might take 1 season to become a stud like Brook Lopez.

Turner should be good out the gate

Favors should take time but will be good eventually, but what do I know?

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Apr 12, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

dont forget the same coach for ...gasp

Two straight years

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Apr 12, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Turner to me is the best fit for us

Wall would excel anywhere, including here, but takes away the mismatch that Tyreke is.

Most (if not all) the big men don’t have FT stroke, which worries me. Favors has no real go-to move on offense, and really needs a lot of polish to be ready for the NBA game.

Cousins, for such a talented guy, only averaging 23.5 mins a game is a question mark for me. Favors (with foul trouble) averaged 27 mins. So what is it with Cousins? Foul trouble? Stamina? Head not in the game?

Of all the project big men, Whiteside (who really needs to bulk up) is possibly the one I’m most intrigued by.

Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.

by elfboy_ on Apr 11, 2010 8:23 PM PDT reply actions  

My understanding on Cousins

Is that he was a young player one a stacked team. At the beginning of the year I seem to remember he was fighting for minutes with the veteran Patrick Patterson. Also, he has had attitude/work ethic issues, so Calipari may have been working on him on the bench and on the practice court before unleashing him in games.

A quick look at his game log shows consistent minutes in the ’teens up until New Years. From then on, he was playing 26+ minutes out there with plenty of 30 min games.

by nobodyinparticular on Apr 12, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I dont know

about the draft this year. If we don’t have a top 4 pick I would want to take Wesley Johnson If Favors isn’t their. He seems like he would be an excellent fit, personality wise and skill wise even though we don’t necessarily need another wing. He can stroke it from everywhere on the court, not really a dribbler so doesn’t need the ball much, amazing athlete, rebounds well and seems like he has a good head on his shoulders with a strong work ethic. I wouldn’t want cousins at all even though he is a tremendous talent, You don’t want that type of head case on a solid young core like ours. I wish their was some sort of way we could trade for an Al Horford type of player though, maybe some of our young talent and a future pick. I dream about being able to pull off something like that, Not reality.

by Chent on Apr 11, 2010 9:38 PM PDT reply actions  

that says it all

which is nothing. The Kings won the lottery last year.

by betweentheeyes on Apr 11, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

No they didn't.

They had the best chance to win the lottery because they had the worst record in the league and three teams jumped ahead of them. So they essentially lost the lottery.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 12, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the same thing at first

But I’m thinking BTE is saying that the Kings won the lottery by getting the best player.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah.

Sorry. Very literal-minded.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 12, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't apologize

Because I’m speaking for BTE…he may just be a dumbass. ;)

Ultimately, I’d hope for the Kings to get the best position possible, so Geoff Petrie has more players to select from. What happened last year (if Tyreke indeed turns out to be the best player in the draft) isn’t a guarantee that it will happen every season.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know him intimately

he aspires to be a dumbass.

but great good some sigh, uh, dumbasses think alike so you understand my statment fully. The Kings got the best player, That is winning. Getting Pervis Ellison is not winning.

by betweentheeyes on Apr 12, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Damn, that would make a great sig
Getting Pervis Ellison is NOT winning the lottery.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get why you consider Evan Turner a bad fit.

He is, in a generalized manner, a better, more athletic Beno. Many compare him to Brandon Roy but that’s a lofty comparison to hand down already. Turner is a “combo-guard” in that he can score and set up his teammates. He has a spectacular mid range game already. Needs to extend his range, like nearly every NBA prospect. But he would have that SG body coupled with scoring PG skills. Seems like the perfect guy next to Reke. Either can bring the ball up, initiate the offense, create for others, all that stuff we like. Both can leverage the size mismatches they generate. I’m down.

1. John Wall (for supreme trade value)
2. Evan Turner (see above)
3. Derrick Favors (see Pookey)
4. DeMarcus Cousins (see stats)

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Apr 12, 2010 12:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I totally agree here....

Evan Turner is Beno but in a SG body!!! How many times have u watched beno’s sweet pull up and wished he was 6 foot 7? Having Reke and Turner. Both of our Guards can get 5 asst. 5 reb. and 20+ points a game, PLUS! We have Greene and Casspi!

Reke
Turner
Greene
Laundry
JT
Bench: Beno, Cisco, Casspi, Hawes

That is a young, but pretty good starting line up and a very energy driven bench w/ a lot of heart

by shadowchicken on Apr 12, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is anyone concerned that BB is offense and Defense

So, who is going to defend the Parkers, Nash’s, CP3’s, and Barea’s of the league? There is only one ball, so why put 5 scorers on the court if you aren’t going to stop most teams.

You can put almost anyone in the backcourt with Tyreke and he’s going to get his 20 once his jumper starts to fall. Defense are stacking up to stop Evans, so let’s make it easier for them to stop us by having both of our top scorers play the same type of game. That way they don’t have to change the defense no matter which one of our backcourt guys has the ball.

I’ll take the next Dwight Howard or Pau Gasol. Not that anyone in the draft will be that this year, but whoever is going to be close in 3 yrs. Then I’d pick up a playmaking PG and a defensive stopper at SG who’s got a decent jumper. Evans may end up being the next Wade so let him develop and play whatever position he wants, instead of locking him into the PG.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 12, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am

I think if there was any way to put some sort of enforcer next to Landry through the draft or trade it would make The team a whole lot better. We have the future superstar, possibly a couple future all stars, now we really need a defensive anchor in the middle. I’m part of the group that thinks we need a more traditional point guard next to Evans, Even though he can make some nice passes and guard the little quick guys every now and then I think He is best at scoring and rebounding. I don’t want him chasing some of the fastest guys in the league every night.

by Chent on Apr 12, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the NBA is changing

You dont need that small traditional PG anymore (e.g. OKC) Im on the moving forward band wagon and would love the mismatchs a guy like Turner would create. Although they may have trouble defending the Nash’s, CP3 etc. that would go both ways. Im interested to see where we end up in the lottery but i really like the idea of acquiring Avery Bradley in the late first or early second to D’up these type of PG’s.

by Doors Open on Apr 12, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cole Aldrich

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Apr 12, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank YOU

But we can always sign Haywood or trade for Akafor if we can get Turner, otherwise draft for defense!! Or see if we can get someone to trade and pick up a lower pick for a Udoh or Whiteside?

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Apr 12, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I completely understand what you're saying HT.

I’ve said all along I just want somebody who can guard Dwight Howard. But, IMO, DeMarcus Cousins isn’t athletic enough (he’s strong, but not quick and not much vert), and Favors isn’t physically big enough (strength or height).

And Turner is a very good defender. We will have two stoppers in our backcourt. And from what I’ve seen this season when Reke guards smaller players, I’m completely fine with it. He uses his strength and length very well against quicker players. I mean, of course, we don’t want him to tire out by guarding those players the whole game, but from what I’ve seen I’m confident in his ability to do that for the majority of the time he’s on the floor.

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Apr 12, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cole Aldrich

I love beating dead horses.

by allbenji's on Apr 12, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Evan Turner is great...

…but he does a lot of dribbling (just like Tyreke). There’s only one ball.

Beno is more of a 1 in my mind and Evan is more of a two. I think Tyreke needs someone next to him that moves the ball (without dribbling much) and who shoots well from deep. Just my two cents.

by R-Man on Apr 12, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Turner did a lot of dribbling this year

because Ohio State asked him to run the team. I think of Turner as a vastly superior Francisco Garcia – capable of playing the 1, 2 or 3, depending on the circumstances. He and Evans would both be 1.5’s if they shared the backcourt, much like Beno and Evans do now.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I will add

that my preference would be for one of the bigs to come in and “Tyreke” his workout with the Kings. In the perfect world, the best player available would also be a big man.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

The math adds up.

1 + 2 = 3. 1.5 + 1.5 = 3. Seems like they’d be find playing together ;)

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Apr 12, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

if he's there, you take Turner

who’s better 2 or 3 than anybody the Kings have right now

by Watty4ever on Apr 13, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Turner is really really good.

At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.

by TrojanCBB on Apr 12, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm leaning towards Cousins

You just don’t get many chances at big physical potententially dominant big men. In fact, If we got the #1 I might trade down to #2 or #3 to Minnie or NJ plus one of thier later picks.

Maybe

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 12, 2010 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Because everyone could use an Eddy Curry on their team.

There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.

by Sammyp831 on Apr 12, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you could get more

For Wall than Cousins if we got the number 1 pick.

by Chent on Apr 12, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've been thinking the same thing...

…when the chips are down in the playoffs in 2013, how are we going to stop Andrew Bynum or Greg Oden (assuming good health). Cousins is only player that would do the trick.

He could be the next Eddie Curry or Benoit Benjamin, but when I watch him, I see a guy that plays hard down low, getting boards and physically moving people around. He’s a risk, yes, but the last SEC freshman to post comparable numbers was Shaq.

by R-Man on Apr 12, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

In Cousins, I see a personality that doesn't match the King's current core.

From what I’ve read — This isn’t the type of personality I see being a positive influence on this team… But hey, maybe he’ll grow as a person…

There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.

by Sammyp831 on Apr 12, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

#1s are worth a lot

Multiple future first rounders at least, as well as your first pick.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 12, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

For example

Orlando traded Chris Webber at #1 to Golden State for Penny Hardaway #3, 1996 1st round draft pick (became Todd Fuller at 11, could’ve been Kobe, Peja, Nash to name a few, pretty much anyone would’ve been better than Todd Fuller) 1998 1st round draft pick (Vince Carter at 5, traded for Jamison), and 2000 1st round draft pick (Mike Miller at 5, actually not a bad pick for that atrocious draft)

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 12, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

are you sure about that 98 draft pick?

I remember Toronto and GS swapping picks.

The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"

by lodisacfan on Apr 13, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

one trade solves two problems

assuming we don’t get a top two (maybe three) pick…. trade #4 or lower to N.O. for Collison and Okafor.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Apr 12, 2010 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

well

I think the Hornets know they have something special with Collison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t keep him and try to move CP3 instead. Okafor would give us a lot of what we think we need, interior rebounding and defense.

I like both guys, a lot.

by OrangeLazarus on Apr 12, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry

but why would you trade arguably the best point guard in the league because his backups pretty nice? If anything you try to get value out of the backup

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 12, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or keep em both and be happy that your star can get some quality rest.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 12, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

nooooooooooooo

if our draft pick is traded for anything short of Brook Lopez, i ain’t liking it

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lopez would be awesome

But I find it hard seeing NJ letting him go for anything really. He seems to be one of the few bright spots on that team.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah no chance whatsoever (unless you think a certain russian billionare really has no clue what he is doing)

however, that doesn’t change my stance

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we pull a Lopez move

I’m giving you full credit. He would be so awesome here, and I think his personality would fit in perfectly.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

It helps that he's from the central valley.

I’d love to see the Kings get Brook back here.

by Citadel 29 on Apr 14, 2010 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

An interesting thought...

Could drafting Turner (on the far-out assumption the Kings have a top 2 pick of course) give the Kings the ability to split point duties between Evans and Turner much in the same way some here envisioned Reke/Speed splitting those duties and much like Beno and Reke have done throughout the year?

I’m not going to lie, Turner having an under-developed long-range shot scares me because I feel the Kings lack a good 3-point shooter and Reke would benefit from that. By the same token, a guy with a great mid-range game (uber-Beno as some have compared him) would do wonders for creating scoring opportunities.

We cannot continue to delude ourselves as Kings fans—the Kings do have problems scoring, recently going 8 games without scoring 100 points. Yes, the Kings are REALLY hurting for defense down low, but the offense is not exactly reminiscent of the Suns this year or the Kings at the turn of the century. Add another dynamic scorer to the backcourt with Evans and the Kings would actually be able to get the offense humming on a night-in, night-out basis.

If not Turner, I think I would rather go with Favors than Cousins. Don’t get me wrong, Cousins makes me drool, but in terms of fit the Kings seem to be focusing on a fast-paced game. Cousins seems to be much more of a half-court, find your place, get the ball and shoot kind of guy. Favors, on the other hand, has the athleticism to run the court and help facilitate that fast-paced offense. And that athleticism also leads to a fairly high defensive ceiling.

by nobodyinparticular on Apr 12, 2010 12:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Phoenix, GSW, Denver & Utah have the highest scoring teams, How many Rings do they have?

The Kings are 6th in PPG allowed, and they’ve lost over 10 games by sending their opponent to the FT line and being outscored in FT when they won the shots from the field.

The KIngs coaching staff already calls Evans the “Looker” or “Watcher” or something like that because he stands around when he doesn’t have the ball. By all means lets add someone else who needs the ball, so we can make Evans even more irrelevant.

The Kings are 21-23 when they score 100+ pts, but they’re 10-41 when they allow their opponent to score over 100pts. But, if you’re still bent on adding offense, Landry shoots 71% at the rim and Beno our best jump shooter hits 42% of his mid to long range jumpers. The Kings average 84 FGA’s per game. Evans gets 16, Landry gets 14, and Beno gets 11 that’s almost half of all our shots. If we give Turner, Beno’s 11 plus a few more, How many pts more than Beno is he really going to score even if he hits jumper at 50%. I’ll take a big that gives you 7 baskets on 10 touches, plus gives you defensive rebounds and blocks.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 12, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice breakdown.HT. That's exactly why I'm not of the belief Evan Turner is the best player for the Kings despite his potential "greater" talent.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 12, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only question I would have with this analysis

Is that statistics-wise, I see a team that is 20th in defensive rating and 22nd in offensive rating this season. They have a ways to go on both sides of the ball – I don’t think the simple, cut-and-dried answer is to add a defensive piece.

Also, we’ve got cap space in the mix here too – some of the issues you mention could be resolved creatively by using that space.

That’s why I’m still a firm believer of the team taking the best player available (in Petrie’s opinion), rather than worrying about positions or ability on the defensive side of the ball.

Add the best possible talent, and put that cap space to work to clean up everything else.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you think adding Evan Turner adds more to the team than adding a defensive presence up front?

I don’t. That’s the crux of the issue. I look forward to see what shakes out of this debate. Cuz right I’m flummoxed about it (even though it’s clear where I stand).

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 12, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno

How about adding Evan Turner through the draft and adding a defensive presence up front through a trade or a free agent signing?

Or if we get stuck in the 6/7/8 range, maybe Petrie gets the big man he wants and we add some offensive backcourt punch via the cap space?

Thing is, Geoff has a ton of flexibility (if he’s allowed to use it). If Evan Turner is an elite talent in Geoff Petrie’s eyes, I hope he drafts him and figures out the rest separately.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

With

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thing is Otis Turner will be available at the 2/3 spots of the draft

He’s not going to slip below that. On the other hand, what defensive presences are out there in the Free Agency that will greatly help the Kings long term?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 12, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

For example

Dalembert and Chandler are both expiring contracts on teams that may need salary relief. One year rentals that may be had on the cheap. No matter who you draft, this could make sense. Even if you draft a Cousins or Favors, this gives you a year to develop them while you still improve your interior defense.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think

that these types of scenarios are very plausible, as Petrie is in a nice position this summer with a high draft pick, versatile roster, young players, and cap space. It would not surprise me at all if he pulled a very aggressive move.

by MichaelMack on Apr 14, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, we aren't getting Turner without getting a favorable ping-pong ball situation

But the philosophy holds the same – why take an inferior player in the draft just because you feel you need to shore up the defense (which I’m still questioning whether that is considerably more important than continuing to upgrade the offense)?

Here’s the other nagging little issue in my mind – Petrie isn’t partial to one-dimensional players of any kind, and that includes post defenders. Would he even draft/trade for a guy like that?

To answer your question, I don’t think Geoff will try to use his cap space to sign a high dollar free agent – I think he’d use it to trade for a similar type player…that cap space is going to be just attractive to other GMs in the league as it is to free agents. It gives him many more options than just chasing free agents (most of whom are going to get well overpaid).

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting choice of words, " an inferior player"

This goes back to every draft over the last 20 years, " when do you decide who the best player available is?" On draft night, when they reach their prime or after their career. There is a concensus that Turner is the best SG in the draft, but will he even be in the top 5 three years from now? Is he the next super star like Wade or Roy? No one knows, just like they don’t know whether Cousins will be the next Shaq. Saying that the Best SG in the draft is better than the best Center or PF, is always up to much speculation.

Check NBA.com under stats for Pts/Rebs/Asts for centers, since Spencer was picked in the draft only 2 other centers are ranked higher than he is, Hibbert and Lopez. Now look how many centers are expected to come out of college in the next 2 years. Cousins may be the best center to come out of college since Oden, and probably for the next 2 years to come. So, I’ll rate him as the best center prospect in the last 4 years and next year too. So, on rarity along that puts his as valuable as the best SG in this draft.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 12, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not keen on having this argument again with you

But I will reiterate my opinion one more time – when I talk about “better player” or “inferior player”, I’m talking about in the eyes of Geoff Petrie, who makes the decision on the player.

Honestly, the conversation makes no sense otherwise, as we are all aware that nobody is psychic.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

you take Turner if he's there

and trade some of the many pieces if all you want is a big body to Reb and block shots … JT is a start and most (all?) of the bigs in this year’s draft, except maybe Ed Davis, aren’t much better players. Not sure that anybody should expect Cousins to be a D stopper, but he can hit the O boards.

by Watty4ever on Apr 13, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I get what pookey is saying

and I like Favors almost as much as he does now. But if Turner is on the board, man, you have to take him. The kid is an NBA All-Star waiting to happen.

I agree with you otis. In that case you draft Turner and then go out and make that Okafor deal, or something like that. An Okafor or Brandon Haywood type would make Landry’s life much easier.

Think of the mismatches you’d present opponents with Tyreke Evans, Carl Landry and Evan Turner!

 

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

The big question in my mind

Will Petrie have the go-ahead to use that cap space? Do the Maloofs try to save the dollars for the new collective bargaining agreement era – or will they decide they need to spend money to make money (add talent, improve record, get more asses in the seats)?

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huuuuuuuuuuge question

It is the question, in my opinion.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is.

And maybe this off season will be too soon.

But I’ll say this: if and when Tyreke gets that jump shot going he is going to be an absolutely devastating weapon. I just don’t see how he could fail to become one of the top 10 players in the league. Maybe top 4.

With that in mind, it’s not hard to picture scenarios where Reke plus Landry, plus whoever we add in June, gets us thick into the playoff hunt sometime in 2011 (either by mid-next season (optimistically), or the beginning of the following.

At that point the Kings have to shore up whatever weak links there are. It will be in everybody’s interest, including Joe and Gavin, to throw some $ at the problem in order to make the team a legit contender, create excitement, sell tickets and merch, propel the arena deal forward, etc.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where I see the Kings getting better:

Evans – He will become a good enough perimeter shooter (not good, but good enough) next year to really create a whole new set of problems for opponents. His improved conditioning will aid his defense, too.

Landry – He enters his first off-season as his team’s starting power forward and primary low post threat. He is also entering his contract year. Watch out.

Pick one – JT, Hawes, Casspi, Greene. One of these guys will take their game to the next level. I don’t have a clue as to which guy will do it, but one will.

Draft pick – No Tyreke-type contribution, but perhaps an Omri-scale performance from next year’s pick. Subject to change if we land a top-two pick.

Cap space – The great unknown. I have mentioned before that I think that someone like Dalembert or Chandler could be had for little. Both of these guys are expiring contract, so we would still be in position to go shopping in 2011. Meanwhile, we would have added shot blocking and defensive rebounding. Not a perfect scenario, but an improvement nonetheless.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I especially like the cap space segment

of your analysis.

I hadn’t thought about it from that perspective, but you’re right. We could improve rebounding and defense next season while still leaving ourselves in a somewhat flexible position longer term.

as for the young players… I think my thoughts on Spencer are well known here. I have no expectations that he’s going to make us appreciably better.

 Donte’, boy he has some talent but I also wouldn’t pin a lot of hopes on him.

JT I think has a real chance to be a solid contributing player, but we still need more defensive presence and improved rebounding in the middle. JT’s somewhat limited as a 5 and Landry is clearly the better talent at the 4.

Omri is a wild card. Too soon to say how much he might improve next season. If nothing else he’ll be more prepared in terms of conditioning.

One more thought, if we luck out and get Wall or Turner I’m confident that their impact as rookies would be significantly higher than Omri’s on this roster. Not Tyreke level, but those guys can step right in and help a team like the Kings from day 1.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed on Wall and Turner

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

So who would you draft

that would cure our defensive woes? And how many blue chippers would you ignore in doing it?

Put another way, would you pass on Turner to draft Cole Aldrich? Hassan Whiteside? I’ve got news for you – Cousins or Favors will not improve this team much defensively next year. That’s just not how the NBA rolls with rookies. Draft the best player and go looking for defense on the free agent market or via trade.

And 1 – At this time last year, we would have eschewed such a selection because we had Kevin Martin. But Martin is now gone, replaced by low post scoring and cap space. Draft assets and then make your deals from there.

I’m all for drafting “big” if one of these guys comes in and buries their workout. But if Turner is available and is all that he appears to be and proves to be that and more when he works out, draft him. I would be very happy being Phoenix or Denver or Utah right about now.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm right with you there homeslice

You can now officially question your stance on this issue.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think the thing people are missing with all this draft talk is the fact that there are no Tim Duncans in this draft. Also, if you draft a big man, you’ll get one of two things:
1) He’s athletic, but he needs time to develop and get bigger.
2) He’s already a big guy, but he’s not athletic and does not have potential.

And that's wassup.

by Sacramento_Strong on Apr 12, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

And...

I think it’s funny that no one talks about Fesenko here anymore.

And that's wassup.

by Sacramento_Strong on Apr 12, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Talking about Fes was more of a joke than actual serious discussion.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 12, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

First off, I don't believe the Maloof will use their cap space until the next CBA is decided.

And 1 – If we had drafted based on the Consensus BPA, we’d be waiting for Rubio to play out his contract and joining the Kings.

Who would I draft? I’ve never been to one college game and haven’t seen many games of the players were talking about. What I do know is that the Kings have needed help in the post since Weber got hurt. I also know that the Kings traded one of the best most efficient SG’s. I also believe that the majority of the star big men will sign back with their teams or go to a major market team. So the best chance of finding help in the free agent market will be a backcourt player and not a PF or Center. Especially if the Maloofs aren’t willing to spend more than MLE type money.

I too will have to hedge my bets:

if Turner is available and is all that he appears to be and proves to be that and more when he works out, draft him

Cousins looks to be the most dominate center since Oden and with no potential stars coming out of college next year at the center position. I’ll go with Cousins assuming he appears to be the talent he looks to be. And, I don’t care if it takes 3yrs to get there. I’d rather have a dominant defense center who can rebound, than a scorer to replace Beno. I’m also not looking for a team that makes it into the playoffs next year. More, I’m looking for one that’s a playoff contender in 3-4yrs.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 12, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

See, that's just not true

You’ve turned it completely backwards. Rubio was rated higher than Evans on most draft boards AND he theoretically fit a position of need – as a pure PG, while Reke seemed more like a hybrid (and a strange fit with Kevin Martin).

If you listened to the Kings brass after the draft, you would know they picked who they felt was quite likely the best player in the entire draft, not just the best player available to them. Once they determined that Kevin and Tyreke didn’t fit together, they traded Kevin for a low post offensive scoring threat in Landry.

This is exactly why a bad team should draft BPA instead of need – because it gives them quality assets to move around.

Sorry HT, but saying that the drafting of Tyreke Evans was NOT taking the BPA is crazy talk.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 12, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

With

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 12, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

My contention is that there is no way to guarantee who's the BPA.

because not everyone is even in agreement as to what BPA means. BPA Now? BPA in 3yrs? BPA for his career? BPA for this team? BPA is a cope out for anyone that doesn’t want to stick his neck out. Evans was a good pick for us. But, if Portland gets the number 4 pick, is Evans the best pick for them?

I’m going by the title of the thread, “How to best improve the team this offseason”. To my thinking last season almost everyone believed we needed a PG (Rubio or Jennings) or a big (Griffin). That was my thinking last year and I see no reason, based on our current Roster to change. We got Tyreke at PG so that leaves someone to get the defensive rebounds and protect the basket. If some people want to believe that the best SG is somehow better than the best Center or PF when all three are projected to be top 5 picks then let them make their case. Otherwise, I have two players of need that are bonified top 5 draft picks, so I see no reason to believe that we should pick a SG who is only slightly better than Beno and probably not as good as Martin.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 12, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like Cousins over Favors btw

My worries about Favors is that he is listed as 6’9" which could mean he is 6’7" or 6’8" – the combine measurements will be interesting.
On the other side: Cousins is a load – listed 6’11" and 260. He has quick feet and soft hands. His head is a question, but in this draft – which is not deep like the last one (the draft was considered weak as overall high talent, but deep), Cousins’ skill set and physical set are impressive. It is up to due diligence and individual interview which will decide if he as the head to be “all he can be”.
Wes Johnson probably > Aminu for the same reasons. Johnson has skill set Aminu is not there but is a physical speicmen.

by betweentheeyes on Apr 13, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

On DX Favors is actually listed at 6'10

So you could be right. I’ll bet his wingspan is better than Cousins so the actual difference isn’t that big of a deal.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

On DX Favors is actually listed at 6'10

So you could be right. I’ll bet his wingspan is better than Cousins so the actual difference isn’t that big of a deal.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

as an aside and talking of the RoY race

I can’t remember a RoY race where the top candidates are all at the same position (and that is not including Collison).

by betweentheeyes on Apr 13, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't either bte.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually

I just read that when he was in High School Cousins was measured at the LaBron James Camp with a 7’6" wingspan. (The same as Hassan Whiteside’s, which is inevitably described as “freakish”). I know Favors also has a very wide wingspan, but I can’t seem to find the exact number. He does have a standing reach of 9’1", so somebody better at math than me could work out the numbers. In any case, Favors is like 6’9" or 6’10" so I seriously doubt he has a 7’6" span.

On the other hand his hops are exceptional and Cousins is relatively flat-footed. I bet Favors would win a jump ball with Cousins 7 or 8 times out of 10.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

The measurements will tell a lot.

I think Cousins has length that people don’t realize cuz he isn’t very good at using it overall MM. Favors shows his length much more and uses it to his advantage.

It’s funny, but I think people will recognize Favors situation is similar to Russell Westbrook. The difference being, of course, that playing PG and playing PF is very different in a lot of respects.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know if you recall

but I was very high on Westbrook prior to that draft. (I miswrote his name as “Westwood” in one thread at that time).

Tyreke and Westbrook had similarities to me in that they totally exploded up draft boards starting in like February or March based largely on late blossoming and sheer physical potential.

You know what else I like about Favors, pookey? That interview vid on Draftexpress. He really comes off as an intelligent, level headed young man who’s mature beyond his years and doesn’t have the hyper inflated ego so many gifted jock kids have at that age.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I liked Westbrook too.

I just knew he wasn’t going to be there where the Kings picked.

I like that about Favors too is that he’s a kid who understands how to accomplish things without making it all about him. I just think that when NBA teams get wind of him, and when it gets out to the mass public, Favors will end up being a stud. Most NBA teams say that John Wall is the prize of this draft, but I think Derrick Favors may end up being if only because he could be very similar to Dwight Howard. He doesn’t have the outsized personality Dwight has though.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's very, very talented

there’s no question about that.

I’ll say this. If we get Derrick Favors and he develops into anything close to Dwight Howard, he and Tyreke will team up to bring at least 1 or 2 NBA championships flags to the rafters at Arco.

OK, it’s 11:15 in Kauai, so I’ve got an excuse for writing about the Kings at this hour, but it’s after 2:00 in Seattle, pookey. Get some sleep, man!

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Heh. Not going to happen.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 3:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

He sleeps when Eric Maynor allows him to sleep

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 14, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hahahahahahaha.

Of course. I wouldn’t mind if Eric Maynor decided to make me instantaneously wealthy either.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean, you sleep with Eric Maynor for money?!

And I thought you just wanted his babies. The emasculate conception.

Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.

by elfboy_ on Apr 16, 2010 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eric Maynor doesn't pay for sex

People pay money to have sex with Eric Maynor.

Hmmm…that one doesn’t sound so great….

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 16, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't care if he's 5' 9" as long as he can rebound and block shots.

Since Spencer went down, the Kings are averaging 3 block per game for April. JT has had 6 in 5 games and Landry has had 3. JT is averaging a little under 9 rebs and Landry is averaging a little over 6.

We still need help in the paint defensively,

I’m really really hoping that the Kings get the #1 pick, just so GP can put this BPA discussion to rest once and for all.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also he doesn't turn 19 until July so he may not be finished growing.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's no way to really know anything HT

But that doesn’t mean you don’t attempt to select the right players to make your team better.

So if I’m understanding your argument – you’re saying that it’s not possible for a guy like Petrie to ignore player positions and just evaluate young talent and say “Player X is going to be a much better NBA player than Player Y”?

Do you think looking back Memphis would have rather selected Tyreke than Thabeet, even though Thabeet filled more of a need? Do you think that Petrie would have taken Thabeet instead of Evans if he had that choice? What would Oklahoma City have done if they had another crack at the draft?

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Tyreke is going to be the better NBA player than Thabeet or Harden. Which also makes him a better asset in the long term.

Again, Petrie will have both a high draft pick AND cap space to work with (theoretically). If he’s choosing between two players in the draft who he feels have similar upsides in the league longterm, then he should go by need as a tiebreaker.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 5:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Close otis

I’m saying that GM’s have been misjudging talent for years, and can’t be positive that "Player X is going to be THAT much better NBA player than Player Y"? So to ignore a position of need, would be arrogant on the part of the GM.

Sure Tyreke had a good year as the star of the worst team in the league from last season. But, if you judge who the best player in the draft was, at the end of their rookie contracts then we still have 3 years to find out who the best player is. Even today Evans isn’t guaranteed the ROY, so who to say that Curry or Thabeet or Griffin won’t be the best player in the draft.

I can’t speak for Memphis’ GM, but here’s how I look at it. Center’s and PG’s are the most difficult positions to fill. If you believe that a Center like Thabeet will be the most dominant center to come out of college for a ten year stretch then I’d take a gamble on him. And, if Center is a position of need it just makes it easier to take the gamble.

We have a need for a low post presence, and already have a pretty good backcourt. If I believe Cousins will be one of the top 5 centers in the league by the end of his rookie contract, and Turner would be one of the top 5 SG’s in the league by the end of his rookie contract, why would I ignore need?

  I don’t understand this idea, that a GM must stack rank these players before they ever play a single NBA game, and if we don’t get the order perfectly correct that they’ve somehow done a lousy job for our team. To me the job of the GM is to build a Championship Team and if taking the 2nd best player in the draft does that, then that’s the player you should pick.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

GMs have been misjudging talent for years

But rarely could you put Petrie in that category.

That is part of a GMs job in every major sport – and some are better at it than others. I think the part you are missing is that these guys are not just pieces on the court, but they are assets for the franchise as well. During the Great Thabeet Debates early last year, many of us felt that a top-5 pick was way too early to draft Thabeet, since he was very one-dimensional. I think “gambling” with a top-3 pick, as Memphis did, is plain stupid.

What I really don’t understand is how you can ignore the evidence staring you straight in the face. Tyreke Evans was not nearly as good a fit from a “need” standpoint as Ricky Rubio. We had Kevin Martin at the two, and Beno was coming off an absolutely horrendous season. A “pure” point guard seemed to fit the needs of this franchise better than a hybrid guard. From a marketing standpoint, Rubio was a great fit for the franchise as well.

Yet they selected Tyreke Evans. Why? Because he blew everyone else away in their workouts…they felt he was the best player available.

Game, set, match.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

With...again

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Every GM is in that category even Petrie

And, I’m not ignoring that GP felt that Evans was better than Rubio or the other PG’s available. But, he was a player to fill a need. As far as I know he’s playing PG and not SG. Now if the Kings had drafted him and played him at the 2 behind Martin, them you made your point. But, they drafted a player that played his last 27 games in college at the 1 and they picked one of the many players to fill a position of need. So, I’m not sure what game your playing, because picking the best player to fill a need isn’t what this discussion is all about.

You, GP, the experts at DraftExpress, and all the experts on the blogasphere have no way of knowing who the best player from last years draft will be, let along who in the upcoming draft will be best. So, are you so sure that Cousins won’t have a better career than Turner?

It’s not like I’m suggesting that we take a late round big over the consensus 2nd pick in the draft. I’m saying the 3rd consensus pick in the draft fills a bigger need, and no one can say for sure that he won’t be the eventual best player in the draft.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

/sigh

So let’s say Memphis and OKC skip on Thabeet, and take Rubio and Harden for instance. And the choice for Petrie is Thabeet and Evans. Clearly, the team needed a frontcourt defensive presence. You think Petrie would have taken Thabeet over Evans?

That train of thought is ridonkulous…and we are going in circles, so I’ll just leave it as is.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thabeet is kind of an exception to the rule

Nobody had him as a consensus, everyone knew the giant risks with him. It was just up to the GM who felt like they could take the risk, which GP knew we weren’t in that position, so yes, Petrie would have taken Evans over Thabeet.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think he's the exception to the rule in this argument

HT said this:

If you believe that a Center like Thabeet will be the most dominant center to come out of college for a ten year stretch then I’d take a gamble on him. And, if Center is a position of need it just makes it easier to take the gamble.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Key words

If you believe and,
gamble.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

"If you believe"

Which he clearly does. And “gamble” doesn’t help his argument.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well said, Otis

I too was on the Rubio bandwagon last spring for the exact reasons you point out here. I still think he’ll be a really good NBA point.

But as I like to say, Geoff Petrie forgets more about pro basketball before he finishes his coffee each morning than us bloggers will ever know. Last year we were all aware that GP liked what he saw from Reke but more importantly Geoff knew what he was looking for in the players he saw.

Which brings me to your astute and very key point about workouts.

We’ve seen enough of Wall and Turner to know those guys will grade out extremely high in workouts. Wall is insanely talented and Turner ain’t far behind. If the Kings have a shot at the #1 or #2, GP will grab them (in the above order) because they’re the two most gifted players in the draft.

After that, things get interesting.

I could see Aminu being very impressive in his work outs. He’s a tremendous athlete, he plays with fire and I think he’ll interview well.

Favors should also look great in work outs; and for all his question marks (and let’s not forget that Tyreke had some ??’s last year) someone like Hassan Whiteside has the kind of physical talent that will have a lot of scouts drooling.

It’s weird but I love speculating about the draft almost as much as I love watching the Kings play.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm on the Aminu wagon I think at this point as well.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah?

Cool. If the draft goes according to current odds we might have to turn our attention away from Favors, pookey.

I’m certainly no expert but it seems as though there’s a lot to like about Aminu.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

None of us are experts actually. Unless you know one of the KIngs FO that posts here secretly.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

They're are readers

But I doubt posters.

Kevin S. is Joe Maloof though.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should be There

I mess that up a lot.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Joe is stupid enough to pull the 15% Visa discount.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rubio ... Rubio

Wasn’t he the guy back in 2010 the T-Wolves wanted to package with their #1 to get the number #1 pick in the draft from the Kings?

by King of Fulton on Apr 15, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed on that ....

you don’t waste a top 5 pick on a big-man project, and neither Favors nor Cousins are known to be good defenders. So why not take the BPA and then tinker with the mix through FA or trades? I’d rather see Turner or Wes Johnson in purple next year, knowing that they could blow up like D-Wade or B Roy …. whereas I don’t see that potential w/ Favors or Cousins.

by Watty4ever on Apr 13, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

What percentage of Freshman coming out of college are though to be good defenders?

And, how many college teams play NBA style offense or defense. Discounting 2 of the best big man to come out of college in the last 3 years based on them not being good defenders in college is absurd.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 14, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too much assuming..

that we will get a high pick. I’m ready to eat my words but we have to be ready if we get stuck at 5. Considering that we are tied with two other teams, we could be picking higher too. So with that, I would like to ask who would you pick? My money would be on Wesley Johnson or Ekpe Udoh. Kind of stretch for Udoh, but you gotta pick the guy you want. There’s a lot of talent at the middle to late first round even if you look at this past draft. So who is it gonna be if we get #5?

And that's wassup.

by Sacramento_Strong on Apr 12, 2010 2:24 PM PDT reply actions  

I like Udoh.

And he’d be somebody who could step in and help the Kings fairly quickly.

I think the tiers of this draft are fairly clear:
Tier 1: Wall
Tier 2: Turner
Tier 3: Cousins, Favors, or somebody who blows that team away in work-outs
Tier 4: One of maybe half a dozen other guys. Aminu, Wesley Johnson, Whiteside, Aldrich, Xavier Henry, Udoh, etc. etc.

So, yeah, after those first three or four picks it’s a crapshoot (as usual). But with Petrie I feel like we’ve got somebody who’s way better than average at weighing the odds and making the right call.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

We’d have the only three guys in the league whose last names start with “u” on our team.

That has to count for something!

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 14, 2010 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thats what i was assuming

In that range i would have to go with Wes Johnson. Since we are the Kings i think we’ll get the worst out of all the teams we tie with. Johnson is good though, i really like him. I can only hope for Favors.

by Chent on Apr 12, 2010 2:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Taking a bullet for your team!

A salute to you, sir, for offering to make the Ultimate Sacrifice.

And by the way, that blog handle you’ve come up with is LOL-inducing, even after repeated use.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 13, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Donatas-Motiejunas-1300/

He’s projected kinda low in the draft, but if we go all the way to 5, I would probably skip everyone else and go for it. He’s not a defender nor a developed post player – he’s more of a Nowitzki type, I’d guess. His work ethic is questionable, but so is Cousins.

But if his work ethic were to not be a problem any longer, he could easily take up a PF spot and fool around with smaller PFs. Not to mention, the boy’s only 19.

I’d look for a defensive center in the FA market – and there are a few, if I remember the top 50 right. If JT gains a few pounds and works real hard defensively this summer, I might not even worry about that – the kid’s got a good mid, decent interior, and quick feet.

by Charles L. Pierro on Apr 13, 2010 1:14 AM PDT reply actions  

No No No No. I respect your opinion here Charles

But, No.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's cool ...

… but what exactly makes you dislike Motiejunas? Is it just the threat of a lazy bastard, or is there something else that grabs the eye, beyond the lack of defensive training? One thing he would do without question is stretch the floor.

If you’re thinking that we should be focusing on defensive issues first, I can understand your concern. But if we need to improve offense, D.M. is likely a talent you’ll not find again soon, and brings things to the floor that are harder to find than some banging rebounder or small-bodied long-range threat.

by Charles L. Pierro on Apr 13, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mainly because he's an offensive player and I think the Kings absolutely need a physical presence up front more than anything else.

I don’t really have that great love of Cousins, but I do of Favors. I can’t explain it, but the kid knows how to play defense without being told. He might end up being the best player out of the 2010 draft (although I won’t swear to it). I just think the chance he has of being very very very very good is extremely high. More so than Cousins.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. If we’re focusing on defense, I’m willing to negate Moti … whateverthefuckhisnameis. Favors has some good things going for him, I admit. I don’t dislike that kid from Wake Forest, though.

by Charles L. Pierro on Apr 13, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take Aminu over Cousins even though the argument is BPA, BPA.

Still take Aminu over Cousins. Just don’t like him, and I’m not sure what it is.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure either

but I agree.

Actually I do have an idea as to one thing about Cousins I’m not all that into. Namely, there’s some fairly decent evidence that the kid is afflicted with some kind of personalty disorder or serious psychological problem.

I previously cited on a different thread the NBA scout talking about Cousins being on “serious meds”, and we already know about the behavior problems.

Secondly, while he’s certainly NBA sized and very strong, and he has some genuine hoops skills, he also looks kind of plodding and slow.

I think ultimately Favors has more upside on defense because he’s the much better athlete. Quicker, more mobile, better hops.

Put those two factors together and to me that means I’m happy to let someone else draft Cousins ahead of us as long as we get Favors.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah the meds thing could be something a GM is trying to knock down Cousins value

Somebody will take the risk on him. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was the Warriors if they could move Ellis & Maggette at some point.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

And to be honest

I only think it’s a problem with Ellis than Maggette. I could see why the Dubs would consider keeping Maggette.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Could be

but there’s been a couple of times when he sure has acted like he needed meds; whether he has a prescription or not.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing to be done about that MM.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Favor may be the best player out of the 2010 draft? Blasphemy ;)

How can you even say that when everyone knows Wall is the top tier, and Turner is the 2nd best. Haven’t you been reading all the experts. (falls into the deep pit of Sarcasm)

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. Clearly I'm a Pinko Commie. Now if only I was Jewish, the circle of my existence would be completely complete.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can still convert, it's a matter of choice not a birth right.

Although at your age, I’d pass on the circumcision

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean, being Jewish is a choice?

Penny Pinching here I come!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was for Sammy Davis Jr!

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Damn!

Good point MM!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hereby apply as resident Rat Pack Expert at SR

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Apr 14, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Duly appointed!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 14, 2010 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do not mention Don'tdraftas

with our pick. Do you really want a 7 footer who weighs less than Tyreke and has attitude problems as well?

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never got attitude problems – I got unfocused. And if that big ol’ white boy ends up being Dirk the 2nd, hell yes.

But being that we want to aim for inside presence instead of unique offence, there are certainly better choices.

by Charles L. Pierro on Apr 14, 2010 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

How to improve this offseason?

I thought about it long. I think of all our weaknesses, the biggest is rebounding, especially defensive rebounding.

Because of poor defensive rebounding, we rate poorly defensively, giving the opponent extra opportunities, often under the basket.

Because of poor defensive rebounding, we lose a lot of opportunities to go out on the fast break, thus rating poor offensively.

Maybe/probably we should get a Center. A lot of people seem closed on this, and want a guy with rebounding, shotblocking, scoring and defensive possibilities, able to match up with Dwight Howard. Good luck finding him in this draft. I think you won’t.

But do we really need a big who also has can score, i.e.has a strong post up game? Tyreke is a lay up machine, Landry is very efficient in the post. Having a big guy parking there will make it harder on them both.

Is Hawes the answer? He can draw the opposing big out of the paint with his range (if he would shoot more consistently), but his defensive rebounding doesn’t fill our need. Can he improve there? I’m not sure.

Is JT the answer? Lately, he’s been pretty active on the boards. If he can hit a decent half range jumper, he may be able to make some room for Tyreke and Landry and occasionally use his speed to beat opposing bigs. But that’s a big IF.

Rebounding is more than drafting or trading for one guy who can clean the backboard. It requires more of a team effort, and understanding of what boxing out is.

My point is that this offseason should be dedicated to drawing plans for good team defense, starting with team rebounding. And making the player they draft or trade for plug into these plans.

Dunking Dutchman

by RikSmits on Apr 13, 2010 12:40 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

very well written...

I think you could add poor perimter d also, this allows easier shots and reduces our ability to get transition the other way

"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"

by want2win on Apr 15, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still say win the lottery

It’s crass, but it’s too early to talk upgrades until the draft order is set . . . it makes a world of difference who the Kings might be able to bring in. I don’t expect much from the Kings in free agency other than a possible role player or two (not a roll player, see Sean May)

by bignerd on Apr 13, 2010 3:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Kyle Lowry

Seems like he would be a very good pick up as a backup pg/change of pace player even though he’s not something the kings really need. Watching him yesterday really impressed me, He’s so fast and i think he’s really good at feeding people in scoring position. It’s just a thought, I only would want him if we got a really decent price on him. He just really impressed me yesterday, the game changed when he was in the game.

by Chent on Apr 13, 2010 6:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Between Reke and Beno playing PG where would the team find time to play Lowry? They are playing Donte at SG to get him in the lineup.

by bignerd on Apr 13, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

its not remotely likely to happen, but:

to answer the question:

How to best improve the team this offseason?

1. Sign Chris Bosh in free agency
2. Draft Evan Turner
3. Enjoy the return of Arco Thunder

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 15, 2010 10:14 AM PDT reply actions  

#3 Correction^

Enjoy the new arena’s thunder

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 15, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

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