Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Tyreke Clinches 20-5-5, But Kings Fall Again

Was that predictable, or what? Kevin Martin comes in and has a ridiculously good game on offense, doing exactly the thing he did as a King for so long, infuriating the Kings as he did so many opponents. And that game -- 39 points on 11/20 shooting and 16/16 FTs -- is completely overshadowed by Tyreke Evans, who with 24 points on the night guaranteed he would finish the season with a per-game average of 20 points, five rebounds and five assists, joining Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan and LeBron James as the only members of the rookie 20-5-5 club, and LeBron and Kobe Bryant as the only players to do it this season.

And all that overshadows the actual game, a 117-107 Rockets win in which Martin couldn't miss early, Trevor Ariza couldn't miss late, and the Kings fell apart.

I don't blame Tyreke for the Kings offense falling apart -- he wasn't going out of his way to try to get to 24 in the third quarter. Heck, he had 10 FGAs in the first quarter,  when Martin was assigned to guard him. The long stretch of Reke's ineffectiveness at the end of the first half and start of the second is only noticeable because everyone was focused on him, and the threshold. Reke told FanHouse's Sam Amick after the game that those final two points to clinch 20-5-5 were the most difficult of his life. I don't think that showed, at least on the T.V. He got the rim on most of the attempts, and had bad breaks. There were a couple questionable attempts, but that's not exactly outside the norm this season, is it?

Star-divide

If I may digress back to the subject of Martin ...

At the start of the fourth quarter, as Martin was simply destroying every King thrown his way, Jerry Reynolds discussed Kevin in a way I'm not sure we'd heard publicly to this point. All along, the stance from the front office (of which J.R. is a part) has been that the Kings traded Martin because of Carl Landry, because they needed help up front a lot more than they needed a high-scoring, high-possession guard, and because the disparity in salaries could help the Kings add an extra player. The argument, at least publicly, has never been about Martin. It's been about what the Kings got back.

Reynolds introduced a new element to the discussion: a lack of faith in Kevin's future.

J.R. said he wondered if Martin would ever get back to where he was before the latest injuries (last season's bone spurs in the ankle and this year's hand fracture), and whether Martin could ever stay healthy. And while J.R. the color analyst is different than J.R. the director of player personnel or even J.R. the fly on the wall of Geoff Petrie's war room, it had some resonance in the sense that he wasn't just making a personal statement. It seemed like a team position, if that makes sense. It seemed like an opinion that wasn't new, wasn't personal, wasn't foreign. (Grant Napear's reaction to the comments -- complete agreement -- helped this presentation.)

Maybe it doesn't need to be said, that the front office lost faith in Martin's ability to bounce back and to stay healthy. I mean, he did get traded out of the blue. Perhaps we should have intuitively known the front office lost faith in Martin as soon as the trade went down. But give the front office credit -- all along, the line has been that Landry helped more than Martin (which is still debatable), and that the financial flexibility will help (we'll see if the Kings spend in either of the next two summers).

That line has been strong all along, until Jerry's comments last night.

***

If I may:

Martin's injuries were not chronic. They were unfortunate, yes, and they were fairly frequent. But this was not Webber's knee, or even Peja's back. Allen Iverson broke Martin's non-shooting hand. That injury will not cause him to miss another minute for the rest of his career.

Last year, Martin screwed up his ankle. He came back on fire this year (before missing a couple months with the broken hand). He showed he could come back from that injury by averaging 30 points a game in his first five games of the season.

I don't think you can reasonably assess someone's future based on a fluke injury fully repaired, or an ankle issue quite obviously overcome.

If this was a serious part of the front office's consideration in selling Martin low (while he struggled to get back in shape and in a flow with his largely new teammates), then it seems pretty likely the front office will be looking pretty silly in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

***

Tyreke, Kevin ... we're all forgetting the important thing here: Donte Greene scored 16 points! The Show must go on ...

Comment 175 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The way our franchise handled the trading of Martin, from the team’s mouthpiece degrading him on the radio to the nature of the ‘last minute’ trade, has always struck me as wrong, or at the very least, that the public isn’t getting the full story. Martin has been injured a fair bit in his pro career, but seemingly has always had a good work ethic, good attitude and has said the right things publicly. Why the team soured on him, seemingly overnight, befuddles me.

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 6:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Well said

In a vacuum, I think the trade for Carl Landry was a good one – we get a very good, efficient low post scorer and a lot of cap space to work with. In reality, we’ll have to see how it meshes – I’m still a believer that the team never gave the Martin/Evans backcourt the time needed to gel.

However, the way Martin was treated by the franchise and the local media prior to his departure this season is a disgrace. It was damn near Rovian…they were able to successfully take a hard-working, team-oriented kid and make him look like a malingering troublemaker before he was dealt.

The Martin debacle is one of the low points for this franchise in it’s recent history, IMO.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

From a basketball standpoint, the trade seems ok to me, the team was in desperate straights for big guys. I really would have liked to see the Evans/Martin backcourt have more time to figure it out, that’s not how it went.

From a more emotional perspective, the way they ran him out on rails, when from all appearances he’s done nothing wrong, really grinds my gears. They didn’t treat Ron Artest that poorly on his way out of town, and he starved his own dogs.

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think saying that he "starved his own dogs" is highly disingenuous.

He didn’t arrange for a responsible person to look after them, admittedly. But that is hardly the same thing.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

the news said otherwise:

this article supports my statement.

I don’t hate Ron Artest, I’m just comparing the way our local media treated him as he was traded, and it was a nicer send off than Martin received.

Either Martin did something egregious that we don’t know about, or the team did something wrong here.

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd Otis

I agree with everything you said, and you said it well.

Since what happened is all speculation, and all we can judge is public statements and the ridiculous ramblings of a certain red head, my guess would be that Kevin left because of PW. If PW wanted Kevin on that team, wanted him to work out on the team, then it would have happened. At the minimum, he did not have Kevin’s back, and let him dangle in the court of public opinion when the main King’s voice definitely was stringing him up, and PW’s mode in other case’s was to vociferously defend his players. I see PW’s fingerprints on the Kevin trade.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting observation about JR in regard to Kevin

I would disagree with you about the state of the Kings offense at the moment when Evans scored his 22nd point. To that moment, the offense was flowing as well as I had seen it all year. They were absolutely lighting up a very good defensive team.

Then, it became hyper-important for Evans to get his numbers before the half.

A series of 1-on-5 possessions ensued. No scoring. The Rockets closed the gap. As the third quarter began, there was still no gameplan aside from “get Reke to 24.” I can’t complain about most of the shots he took in the 3rd, I mean, there must have been what seemed like 40-50 layup attempts that wouldn’t fall. I think it was very apparent that those 2 points were the hardest he’d ever tried to ring up. Everyone, especially the Rockets knew what was going on, and it absolutely killed the flow, and any chance to win the game. The Kings lost this one 2 minutes before the first half ended.

I was also amused by The Scarlet Douchebag’s constant bleating of how “Evans is absolutely killing Kevin Martin as he gets to the basket!” even as Kevin was (what seemed) effortlessly lighting us up for 39 points.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 6:40 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Damn Sims
A series of 1-on-5 possessions ensued. No scoring. The Rockets closed the gap. As the third quarter began, there was still no gameplan aside from "get Reke to 24." I can’t complain about most of the shots he took in the 3rd, I mean, there must have been what seemed like 40-50 layup attempts that wouldn’t fall. I think it was very apparent that those 2 points were the hardest he’d ever tried to ring up. Everyone, especially the Rockets knew what was going on, and it absolutely killed the flow, and any chance to win the game. The Kings lost this one 2 minutes before the first half ended.

Exactly how I felt about the whole thing.

Regarding Napear, I was amazed that the talking heads still felt the need to kick Kevin around, even though he’s been gone for a while. They had to show their little montage of him failing on defense against Reke and Nocioni.

I guess Kevin gets the last laugh on this one.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

they can kick Kevin around all they want

he was great last night, and his team won the game. can’t say anything about that. NO ONE on the Kings could stop Martin.

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse .... horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

by Dub_TC on Apr 13, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought

that Peachtard was very disappointed in Kevin having a good game. In the first have, after Tyreke scored his eighteenth point and Peaches had a verbal orgasm “18 points in the first half he is on FIRRRREEE”, then Kevin scored his 22nd point and he barely mutters “Kevin Martin has 22 now”. Weak sauce the whole game from Peachtard.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree with you there

But all he can do is make himself look bad, I think he stopped representing the fanbase a long time ago

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why he still has a job leaves me flabberghasted

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did anyone notice

The post game little stat board they throw up with the top two players from each team? Martin wasn’t on it….WTF? 39 points doesn’t get you in the top two players for your squas, huh?
 Or was it, just maybe, an intentional ignoring of an inconvenient truth: The kid was good, is good, and very well may be great, and we let him go…..

"every once in a while a kernel of truth...uhh... corn is revealed in my usual pile of poop" - betweentheeyes

by debrixtha1 on Apr 13, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I did and I wondered what the hack was up with that. Really classless if it was intentional.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am with Andy on this one

I thought it was a rather shocking display at the end of the 2nd and beginning of the third that the team’s only goal was for Tyreke to score, and that was worth more than the game. Why he couldn’t just get it in the flow of the offense is beyond me. I am very surprised at PW on this, that was a lack of coaching, and it might have cost us the game.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Tyreke only had six more quarters left to score two points. I’m pretty sure he would have gotten that in the normal flow of a game.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did anyone else notice

Martin’s shoes last night? I do believe he was sporting purple laces. Has he been doing that since he got traded, or was that a shout-out to the Kings fans who were sad to see him go?

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 13, 2010 6:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I bet it was a shout out

He’s a class act.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

But I don't see Purple laces in this picture

Here

Perhaps you were imagining things.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I gotta disagree

It sure looked to me that Tyreke going after the 20-5-5 thing dragged the team down in the second half. It certainly did not help Tyreke’s shooting percentage. Had Tyreke shot a decent percentage the game would have at least been closer.

Not trying to complain. Just seeing it for exactly what it was. Congrats to Tyreke for making history.

by KingsFan on Apr 13, 2010 6:59 AM PDT reply actions  

well, it certainly isn't a complaint against Tyreke

He was acting as you would expect a 20 year old to act. It would have been nice to see the Head Coach exert a little veteran cool in that situation.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think time will tell

And my guess is that time will prove JR correct.

I also disagree about the team position and how strong it was. Both PW and Mario Elie indicated that they were looking for a team of players who could tough it out through adversity, and that Kevin wasn’t one of them. They’ve got a vision for the team, and I’m a fan of it.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Apr 13, 2010 7:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Tough it out, through a broken hand?

Injuries aren’t adversity. They are physical conditions which prevent you from playing to the best o your ability, or at all. A death in the family is adversity. Going through a divorce is adversity.

I don’t have any idea what you are referring to in regard to Westphal and Elie.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

no one thought he'd tough it out through a broken hand

Westphal gave a post-game presser shortly after the trade in which he digressed from the topic at hand (was it Spencer and his suspension?) and spoke about his vision for the team and how he wanted guys who could tough it out through adversity. Elie at the half of a game was asked about KMart’s shooting issues (poor % and a stretch in which he had passed up open shots) and responded with something to the effect of “the NBA is a man’s league”.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Apr 13, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then Elie, while a great player and seemingly a good coach, may be something of a dickbag.

That’s an idiotic statement. If your shot isn’t falling, you make the extra pass. Apparently, that kind of thinking is for those fundamentals-crazy WNBA fans.

I would suggest that if Elie couldn’t reach Martin, that’s on Elie.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Agreed 100%

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta rec Andy on that

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 13, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

Kevin is an elite scorer, hard working, and a great guy. How tough would he be to coach?

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Unless

your main function is to score. Then you need to shoot the ball or be on the bench. A shooters gotta shoot. I believe Kevin was as hard on himself as Elie was at the time though.

by markdog333 on Apr 13, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

in regards to Kevin and adversity

He was noticably frustrated about not being the number one scoring option right before he got traded. I doubt anyone with the team or Kevin will talk much about that but I have a feeling Kevin’s frustrations (and leaving the locker room early) probably lead them to believe he was not fitting in and they decided (one can say in a panic) to trade him.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

correction

noticably frustrated about being one of the last scoring options on the floor

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Kevin Martin is on your team, and he's your 3rd, 4th or 5th scoring option...

Either you have an incredibly talented team, or your coach is moron. Neither is the case in Sacramento, so I’m not sure where this observation is coming from.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Martin was averaging 15.4 shots per game here, 2nd only to Tyreke (16.3). Martin is currently averaging a reduced 14.8 shot per game in Houston, and he seems to be anything but frustrated.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

to be honest, i have not really paid much attention to what Martin has been doing in Houston

All i know is that he was frustrated before he left here. I have no idea why he is okay with less shots in Houston but I guarantee you he was getting frustrated with his role in the offense here.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

You guarantee it?

Excellent!

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tommy: Let’s think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I’m listening.

Tommy: Here’s the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box ’cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: ‘Course it does. Why shouldn’t it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

Ted: What’s your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn’t a crazy glue sniffer? “Building model airplanes” says the little fairy; well, we’re not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that’s all it takes. The next thing you know, there’s money missing off the dresser, and your daughter’s knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That’s all it is, isn’t it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer’s sake, for your daughter’s sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Ted Nelson: Okay, I’ll buy from you.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let it go, man

You said:

noticably frustrated about being one of the last scoring options on the floor

Turns out that he was not one of the last scoring options.

Martin wasn’t happy and the Kings dealt him. Moving on.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

are you serious?

it’s a tommy boy quote. I get it, you don’t agree with me. I’m fine with that. I thought him calling me out on “I guarantee it” was funny and it made me think of a funny part of a movie. In fact i thought i was making fun of myself here. My mistake apparantly.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought that sounded familiar

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope, my mistake

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

not saying he was in fact the 3rd, 4th, or 5th scoring option

saying that seems to be what Kevin Martin felt

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're "saying" that's "what he felt?"

Oh, ye of entirely too much faith…

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

For me, it wasn’t trading Martin that’s so wrong, its how it was done. Why malign your own player before trading him? Why not talk to more teams and let them know you’re trading him? Why do it seemingly at the last minute?

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

This game ended up being the best result possible.

Numbers for Reke and a loss for lottery balls. Now I hope we sit Tyreke vs the LAkers.

by mayfieldcol on Apr 13, 2010 7:26 AM PDT reply actions  

this

annoys me

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on Apr 13, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

I agree with. (wally not may)

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

A losing culture leads to complacency...

From the Houston Chronicle and what many Rockets fans feel:

""Our goal, when we weren’t going to make the playoffs, was to finish with a winning record. Let’s have as many wins as we can. They worked too hard to give the season away in the last seven games of the season. I think they responded."

They did because losing should never be accepted comfortably, much less celebrated.

Evans probably would have secured the achievement whether he was permitted to chase it or not. With a player that talented and that crucial to a franchise’s future, the game should have been about winning the game and nothing else. Instead, the Kings demonstrated that individual achievement sometimes matters more than winning. Naturally then, the Kings lost the game and maybe more.

In a season going nowhere, the Rockets won a game and self-respect."

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2010/04/rockets_117_kings_107_rockets.html

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions  

That and a buck will buy you a McDonalds cup of coffee

With the players you have, you should have made it to the playoffs in my opinion—even with the injuries. So in the real world, you still lost. Personally I’ll take the playoffs over so called self respect every time.

To suggest the Kings were playing for Tyreke’s numbers over the win is complete and utter nonsense. Evans scored when you created an easy mismatch for him. When it became clear the final two points he needed were getting into his head, PW pulled him. Would he have done that if the Kings weren’t playing to win?

Gotta tell you dude, if the Rockets need a win over a team tied for the third worst record in the NBA to give them self respect, I’d much rather be a Kings fan.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry SB

I kind of agree. The chase to the magic “24” felt pretty forced, and Houston made a run during that period.

And there’s no way you can lose a guy like Yao Ming and expect to make the playoffs in the Western Conference.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Coaches on both sides disagree with your statement

Adelman:
“I didn’t even know what was going on,” Rockets coach Rick Adelman said. “Finally, they put the 20, 5, 5 up there (on the scoreboard.) I’m more than happy to let him take that. We’ll take the win and go home.”
Westphal:
“In fact, I do think that the accomplishment of Tyreke (Evans), even though it was a distraction to this individual, can’t be diminished when you look at the totality of this season. "…
“I understand the distraction of the hoopla – it looked like Tyreke forgot to make layups tonight when he was on the cusp. "

Sounds to me a lot like the Kings were really all about Tyreke in that game and not really about doing what’s best for the team.

By the way, I was just quoting the Houston Chronicle’s Sports columnist. He’s a well respected journalist and in his opinion the Kings were not really in it to win it.

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nope

Not buying it. Was it a distraction? Of course. The same way any impending record is a distraction. Look at what a big deal the home run races were sereval years back. But there is nothing you can do about that. Did you want PW to make the record go away somehow? I actually think it was incredibly smart to try and get it out of the way in th forst half to avoid that. And in case you didn’t notice, we were up at the half. We fell behined when there was only two more points to be scored—and when Adelman finally changed his defensive assignment on Evans.

Otis, the run Houston made was when Evans went cold and when Westphal took him out. Evans himself said that was the toughest two points he’d ever scored. So yes, there was a distraction. Yes, it got in Evans head. But to say the entire team cared more about getting Evans his 24 points than getting the win is complete and total bull crap. As I pointed out before, Westphal took Evans out BEFORE he got the record.

We scored 40 freaking points in one quarter when Evans was smoking everyone who got in his way and obviously taking his shot whenever he could find it. We lost when the Rockets finally discovered the D they are known for. If it hadn’t been for the record, it would have been par for the course between these two teams.

Personally you can take consolation in whatever you want, but the fact that you didn’t make the playoffs makes it a losing season.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes SB

But the Rockets had already built some serious momentum during the chase for 24. The Rockets had cut into the lead, and when Westphal took Evans out, the run continued.

Just the fact that you had to pull your best player off the court to try to stabilize the team tells you everything you need to know.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

And yes

I think it was an ultimately unsuccessful season for Houston, since they are a team that has made the playoffs pretty regularly. However, you are criticizing them for taking pride in winning rather than celebrating personal achievements. That sounds pretty bass-ackwards to me.

Sorry, it sounds a little sour-grapish to criticize a team for being happy about a win.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

SB referred to 20-5-5 as a record

comparing it to the Sosa-McGuire HR chase of a few years back.

20-5-5 is not a record, it is an achievement. If Peachtard spoke once more about the “history” being made last nite I was going to turn off my television. How many of us knew that only three players had done it before? It isn’t like this was some famous goal that many had tried and failed in, where we wonder each year of some rookie is going to accomplish it. I think all of the ridiculous hype, as it is still just a manipulation of numbers.

To me, the numbers weren’t all that different from than:

Magic averaging 18.0pts, 7.7rb, and 7.3 ast
Chris Paul’s 16.1, 5.1, 7.8, 2.2 stls
Tim Duncan’s 21,12,and 3
Stevie Francis averaging 18, 5.3, and 6.6
Elton Brand averaging 20-10
Damon Stoudamire averaging 19.0, 4.0, and 9.
Iverson averaging 23.5, 4.1, 7.5
Grant Hill 19.9, 6.4, 5.0
Larry Johnson 19.2, 11.0, 3.6
Mitch Richmond 22.0. 5.9, 4.0

and there are more excellent rookie seasons as well. While not trying to take something away from Tyreke, because he is OUR player, and a hundred times more exciting to root for, but this last month the 20-5-5 has seemed like manufactured hype, and last night especially, seemed the point of the game rather than winning. To me, the intense focus on this stat, which is not a record, has almost cheapened it a bit.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I totally agree

Evans is the same guy if he averages 20-5.1-4.9 as if he averages 20-5-5. This obsession with round numbers is pathetic; I’d certainly rather see an obsession with wins/losses over 20-5-5.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Apr 13, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta sell some tix next year guys . . .

lighten up

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 13, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I get your telling me to lighten up

but I think Tyreke, Omri, Donte, JT, Hawes, Beno, and Cisco are exciting players, five of them very young, and we dont need it to be so focused on a silly stat, to me it cheapens a bit an excellent ROY of the year campaign.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I understand selling tickets

the Maloofs are doing what they have to do. I just don’t understand why I should be excited about it. I want to watch good basketball (eventually), round numbers driven events in the meantime don’t add much enjoyment for me.

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.

by Grasul on Apr 13, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

It isn't like we had a lot left to root for this year - accomplishment-wise

Go 50%!! – Errr no
Go Playoff!! – Errrr no

GO 20-5-5 – Hell yeah!

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will agree that it is a hostorical accomplishment and not a record

But what you are missing is that unlike all the other stats you just listed, it has only been done three times in the history of the NBA. Yes, the extra attention our announcers paid it might have tarnished it a little in our eyes, but that does nothing to diminish the accomplishment. And it’s not like our players were feeding him all year to drive up his points. This was a legit stat. My personal impression was that the team (management and owners) wanted to hit this at home. Nothing wrong with that at all. Excitement is what sells tickets—especially when wins are few and far between.

PW did not do anything wrong. Going to Evans in the first half got us the lead. trying to finish it off in the first half so Evans could focus on winning in the second half was smart coaching. When he realized that last basket was getting into Evan’s head (as it would have many rooks), he sat him for awhile. As section pointed out, we were ahead when the record was set.

If you want to complain about this, you have to complain about any player or team who pushes for their guy to get a triple double, an MVP, and all star selection, or any other number of recognitions that have no direct impact on wins and loses. And that, my friend, is nearly every team in the league.

For better or worse, the NBA is a media driven entity, as are all professional sports.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

Meant to say we had a lead when Evans sat out.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

One more nugget to chew on...

Avg age of Kings players who played last night: 25.4 yrs
Avg age of Rockets players who played last night: 25.1 yrs

The Rockets are also a young team that is trying to develop players like Hill, Budinger, Brooks, and to some extent Ariza. Winning and learning how to win, I feel helps those young players develop.

As an aside I see strong similarities between Steve Francis and Evans.
Steve Francis avgd 18, 6.6, 5.3 as a Rookie for the Rockets on a TS% of 54.3 vs 52.8 for Evans.
Steve Francis was a good player and led the Rockets to quite a bit of regular season success, but not much post-season success. Francis was a fantastic finisher and a great rebounder for his position, but lacked a reliable jump shot and his passing was sub-par.
Sounds a lot like Evans…just hope Tyreke ends up expanding his game more than Francis was able to.

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

If you really think Francis and Evans are the same type of player, you lose all creability to me. And this is from a guy that didn’t want to draft him.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Derrick Rose reminds me of Francis.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did you ever see Francis play?

He was a beast. He was the best player at getting to the rim and finishing in his time. His statistics are eerily similar to Evans and his shortcomings are as well. If you would like to point out in what ways Evans is different than by all means go ahead. To say I have no credibility is to evade the point entirely.
I think Evans will turn out to be a better player, but its not guaranteed. You put a guy like Battier on Evans and turn him into a jump shooter and he becomes somewhat pedestrian. Same was said of Francis back in the day.
One difference I can see between Steve and Evans is on the defensive side of the ball. He can really guard all sorts of players and that will really help. Francis was not known for his D. But, offensively I don’t see a big difference.

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Francis relied a lot on his quickness and athleticism (why I think Derrick Rose is most comparable)

While Tyreke relies more on his strength and size. Francis deteriorated later in his career when he lost that quickness and athleticism. Reke won’t lose his size and strength.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

That was my point

Similar stats but very different players. Both good, but because of different reasons. I like Francis and I like Evans. I hate hearing that Evans is only twenty, but the truth is that we don’t know what he will develop. One of the biggest reasons I hated losing K-mart was that it forced teams to stay honest when Evans and Speed were on the floor. You couldn’t switch your point guard onto K-Mart and get away with it like you can with Beno.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

also

the attitude towards the job is different between Steve and Tyreke. As I remember, “Stevie Franchise” wasn’t the greatest teammate.

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok but why did the franchise care about 20 5 and 5

I’ll buy that Evan’s height and strength make him a different player, although if you aren’t quick you can’t get around people to use your size and strength to muscle in a layup.
But, why does your franchise care about 20 5 and 5? What’s the point of tiring Evans out in the first half so he could secure the… whatever it is.
I’m just pointing out that winning franchises don’t care about those things as much as it seems the Kings cared about this particular statistical peanut.

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings cared about it

Because its a historical accomplishment. There’s not one player in the NBA who if they had been put in that position wouldn’t have had his fanbase and teammates behind him trying to get him that thing.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was never claiming a win over the Kings amounted to anything

The original quote was from the Chronicle columnist and from his perspective it looked like the Kings were putting Evans statistical pursuits ahead of the teams goals.
What you are telling me is that Tyreke’s statistical goals are the teams goals and that is where I don’t agree. it may be great for the fans and if I was a King’s fan I would certainly be rooting for it, but it just strikes me as odd that the team and coach would even consider that pursuit with respect to the game being played.
Do you think Popovich, Sloan, Adelman, Brown, or Jackson would have done the same thing?

by PhilippeinBoston on Apr 13, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you didn't agree with the quote that you posted, you should have stated that when you posted it.

Also, Westphal wanted to win the game. The players wanted to win the game. They wanted Tyreke to get his piece of history because it’s a good thing and teams generally want good things to happen for their players, but no one likes to lose, and this year’s Kings team in particular has shown to have a lot of pride. The Kings lost by 10 points to a team that is probably about 10 points better than them on most nights. I’m not sure why we need to scrutinize the teams focus for performing pretty much as expected.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 13, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did you miss

the post where it was stated that Westphaul took out Tyreke prior to the 20-5-5? or the post where its stated the the Rocket’s run occured while Tyreke was on the bench?

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

If Popovich, Sloan, Adelman or Jackson were coming of a 17-win season, and were nowhere near a .500 record, they would have all provided Evans with the opportunity to reach this accomplishment at home.

Brown on the otherhand probably would have benched him just to make a message. Actually, who am I kidding. Brown would have never played him enough to get anywhere near that mark.

by markdog333 on Apr 13, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd SB

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

if it were

Jordan Hill with that record, it would be a big deal to the Rockets

If Curry were getting it, it would be a huge deal to the Warriors.

If it were Jennings getting it, the Bucks would make it a huge deal.

To us, seeing Reke’s name next to Jordan, LeBron, and The Big O … is a great thing. It’s exciting. Might not mean anything in the long run, or to the rest of America, but it’s just shows how great of a rookie year Reke had.

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse .... horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

by Dub_TC on Apr 13, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

when

you have 25 wins all year, and it’s the the last home game of the year, yes. Give the fans something to be happy about.

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse .... horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

by Dub_TC on Apr 13, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also if you notice, the team had no problems with him going after it

They were all encouraging him, so to say it was against the team’s will would be misleading.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is it important

for a team with 25 wins to get 1 more? I mean c’mon what the hell does 1 more win do for the team. You’re blowing this way out of proportion

by TTown Kings on Apr 13, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are you serious?
But, why does your franchise care about 20 5 and 5?

Any team in the league – ANY – would have made a big deal out of a historical accomplishment like that.

Seems to me when baseball players, football players hit milestones there’s always some hoopla.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 13, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with what Feigen said

Because I really agree. It was absurd to celebrate an achievement over trying to get a victory.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please show me where and how and who did that?

I very interested in what makes you think we did.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're kidding right?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not at all

Evans had twenty three attempts in the Houston game. In his three previous games he had 21, 19, and 24 attempts. So you can’t argue that we fed him the ball more than usual. He had four assists, which is only slightly less than his average, so you can’t say he was hogging the ball more than usual.

We scored 40 points in the first quarter, following the same game plan that we played the rest of the game.

When Evans sat, we lost the lead we’d held up to that point.

Rather than keep him on the floor until he got his 24 points, PW saw Evans was struggling and sat him before he reached 24. While it was clear that Westphal was trying to get him his last two points needed at the end of the first half and early in the second, Evans himself said that was the toughest two points he’s ever tried to score. So by getting it out of the way, it could be argued, the coach was trying to get that out of the way and back to the game.

The run that pushed Houston ahead of us was without Evans on the floor. Are you arguing that even without Evans on the floor, his two points was such a distraction that we couldn’t play our game? Are you arguing that once that was out of the way, we returned to our normal selves and made it close? Are you arguing that Westphal kept running plays to Evans once it was clear that Evans couldn’t get his two points and that’s when we fell behind?

Please clarify for me when and how the Kings went for the record instead of a win. the only valid and proveable point you can show is that the issue got in Tyreke’s head and messed with his game. But that is much different from showing that we were playing for the 20/5/5 as opposed to playing for the win.

And prowse, that was a very helpful statistic. Now would you like to back it up with proof?

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Are you arguing that even without Evans on the floor, his two points was such a distraction that we couldn’t play our game?

Duh?

Are you arguing that even without Evans on the floor, his two points was such a distraction that we couldn’t play our game?

No, the focus on the achievement was one problem, but it wasn’t the only one. I’ve said as much in my own recap that the Kings are too jump shot happy and that the Kings stopped moving the ball. (One reason I don’t think Evan Turner will be as good an addition as some.)

As far as the 23 attempts, I don’t have a problem with that. He missed repeated attempts at the rim. He could have easily had 40 points had he continued to score the way he did in the 1st half. But it wasn’t meant to be.

I was, and am, irritated by the amount of attention the team put into the record. To me that stuff is pointless without W’s. That’s my opinion. I think the celebration around an achievement, special as it may be, without winning the game is completely bush league. I just hope Tyreke ignores it and doesn’t become one of those stats all-stars who focuses more on his numbers than winning (I don’t think that’s been the case up to this point).

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was merely stating that imo they did play for the record

It doesn’t bother me as much as it does Pookey though. This late in the season it’s not too big a deal. What does bother me though is the amount of overkill and attention aimed at it. And even though they went on a run with Evans on the bench, the momentum switched well before that, and the kings stopped running any sort of play but basically let Tyreke try to go 1 on 5. If they had just kept playing to win, he would have still gotten the achievement without question.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. I'm not really that bothered by it. I don't hate Tyreke for it. I just disagree with the organization's decision to make it the center of the night's attention. It's not a big deal long term.

I just thought it was stupid to highlight a personal achievement over a team victory. No more or less.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're on an island here SB

I dunno, just the fact that PW felt he had to pull Tyreke at that juncture is pretty telling.

Subsequent to the game, Rick Adelman and Paul Westphal both implied that the quest for 24 overshadowed the quest for a victory.

You seem to be stuck on the fact that the Kings only lost a small portion of their lead prior to Tyreke hitting the bench. But the Rockets weren’t shooting well while the team was chasing those 23rd and 24th points – the opportunity was there to extend that lead back out to well into double digits.

Instead, they allowed the Rockets to stay in the game.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I heard Westphal imply

was that he wanted Tyreke to get the 24 points at home. Nowehere did I see where he implied that he was playing for that over the win. Adelman was on the other side of the floor, so regardless of what he said, I don’t know how it could have any more impact than the guy keeping score.

What I am hearing from you and Pookey is that we shouldn’t have celbrated the 24 points unless we won the game. That’s your opinion. It happens all the time when a mark is reached and a team happens to lose the game. But I can respect that opinion. (Even if it does come from a yellow, communist bear.)

I can also buy that Tyreke choked a little (or a lot) over those last two points. He said himself that it affected him.

What I don’t see anywhere is any proof or even evidence that the team placed getting Evans his points over winning the game. Nobody was complaining when we were up by 40 at the first quarter, and that was when Evans got a majority of his points. So if you liked the first quarter, you really don’t have a lot of room to complain about the game. We did the same thing we started out doing. Just not as well.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, that's not what I'm saying

I have no problem with celebrating the achievement, I think it’s the bomb-diggity. But it felt (just from my own eyes, watching the game) that the team saw that as a priority over playing smart basketball. Rick Adelman seems to agree – and Westphal said it was a distraction. You’ve even admitted that Tyreke said he got nervous.

So if you liked the first quarter, you really don’t have a lot of room to complain about the game.

I have every right to complain about anything I like. How about we turn that around and see if the shoe fits – you don’t have any right to be happy about the first quarter considering the team lost the game. :)

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously you missed the notice

I am now the complaint Czar. You can only complain about what and when I tell you. The only reason Pookey gets away with it is because he was grandfathered in, since he was born complaining.

On the day I was born,
the nurses all gathered round.
Cause they couldn’t believe
A newborn could make that kind of sound.
The head nurse spoke up,
said don’t try to restrain.
She could tell right away,
I was born to complain.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I get a grandfather clause to complain...

…Otis gets a God clause to do so.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where: Arco Arena When: 4/12/2010 7:00 - 9:30 pm Who: The Sacramento Kings

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is just Pookey being Pookey

Come on man. I agree when it comes to rookie of the year because it is a subjective award where some idiots probably have a say, but achieving a statistical mark that is rare for NBA players to get is special.

Unfortunately, it was achieved during a game that we ended up losing. That shouldn’t take away from what Tyreke did. And I know you don’t need no 20-5-5 to know how special the kid is (I don’t need it either) but it is a big milestone and should be acknowledged and celebrated.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Apr 13, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're mis understanding Eddie

And it’s not me being “me”. I really feel that the organization’s decision, right or wrong in reality, to overshadow the game with Reke’s achievement cheapens it. Read through the thread. MichaelMack said the same thing up above. Grasal said something too. Are Gras & Mike guys who are just non-conformists and have this great need to be different? I doubt it.

I just wish that a win was a first, and that achievement secondary. Last night, it was clearly the other way around.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

But there wasn't a win

Just like this season wasn’t about wins, it was about finally heading in the right direction. I think Tyreke’s accomplishments show exactly that. We already got what we wanted out of this team: being competitive night in and out, development from some of our players, and a competent coaching staff, all of this extra stuff if just icing on the cake. I just don’t see what the difference is between ending up with 25 or 26 wins, when IMO, the objective for this season was already accomplished.

You know that I think Napear is a complete douchebag too and he needs to stop sucking Tyreke’s d#ck, but last night really wsn’t about that. Maybe it’s because I was there, but it was special for those who were there. Everyone standing up when Reke had the ball, waiting for those last 2 points, just ready to explode. It felt like a celebration of the fact that we are finally heading in the right direction. I don’t want to brag just because I was there, but it was a different feeling.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Apr 13, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

No I get that Eddie. I'm not trying to take that away. And I think that's why the organization did it so loudly and proud.

Still, I’m always of the belief that W’s matter more than anything else.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd agree if the team was in a different stage

But right now… no way. We’ll agree to disagree, my friend. Now let’s kick some Redacted ass tonight

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Apr 13, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough Eddie.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 13, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

PW has been consistent in his demand for good defense.

Playing the defensive player over the scorer. And, by the way Tyreke went after Martin in the beginning of the game, it is pretty obvious that PW didn’t believe Martin could defend Tyreke.

That being said, I believe that PW didn’t want Martin because of his defense, no matter how good his offense was. I’m sure the money and injuries had a part to play, in GP making the move. But, for me, it was Martin’s biggest weakness that eventually got him moved.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 7:54 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

of course

Not many guards can guard Evans due his strength and size. Martin will never be able to morph into a different body, although his overall defense can obviously improve. Besides, who on the Kings was really able to defend Martin? In the end I don’t think the Kings had the luxury of keeping Martin when there were so many other areas where improvements are/were needed.

by newkings on Apr 13, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's well said.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

You have to consider how much money the Kings had tied up in three backcourt type players. Beno, Francisco, and Kevin all were getting paid pretty well and somebody getting paid pretty well was going to have to sit on the bench and not earn their money. Also, with the addition of Tyreke they just didn’t need to pay that much and had a huge whole in the front court.

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

How much did Tyreke's 20/5/5 impact the outcome?

Hard to say. The same emphasis that helped them build a 15 point halftime lead bit ’em a bit in the 2nd half, when the Rockets decided to put Ariza on Evans.

Note 1 on the above – This is why it would be nice to get Evans a bigger backcourt mate. It was easy for the Rockets to put Brooks on Udrih.

Note 2 on the above – It would have been nice to have seen any of the Kings small forwards take Martin to the rack once this switch was made, but it never happened.

Note 3 – The Kings still had a 7 point lead when Evans came out in the 3rd quarter, and the Rockets promptly went on an 8-0 run. Hence, Evans’ chase for 20/5/5 may have been a contributing factor, but probably not the deciding factor.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 7:54 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Good points

When Ariza was on Evans they put Martin on Noc and the Kings tried to exploit that. It didn’t work as well as it should have, but they kept trying. Evans was tired the second half and it showed.

I was concerned about the lack of rest they gave Tyreke in the first half. He played almost the whole first half and should have come out sooner. He was pretty wiped the whole rest of the game. I think this really hurt him as he still isn’t back to shape after missing 10 games and PW should have known it.

Also, we needed more from a couple of other players. Landry did well and we had decent scoring out of Noc, Beno, and Greene, but needed more from JT and Casspi. They didn’t really shoot the ball.

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

I wondered where Donte and Noc were during the second half when Ariza was on Evans. That being said Noc really hustled and played a great first half (only one bonehead shot!).

by DirtyDribblers on Apr 13, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

They are good points

Though Casspi did post up K pretty early and score on him. (never repeated)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 13, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Question about note 1.

I agree with 3, there are alot of reasons why we lost and Tyreke being under the gun to get the 24 was the least of them.

I think that Note 2 is more of a concern than Note 1. We definitely need more offense from the 3 to punish teams for putting their 3 on Tyreke. But, for the most part, I believe Evans is still going to have an advantage over most 2’s.

My question was did Cisco have any impact when he was in for Beno. I don’t remember, and already deleted the game.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

You know i was at the game and I dint see Cisco do much of anything really out there most of the night. He played decently on defense, but no Offense at all really, 1 rebound, 2 assists and 2 points in 17 minutes playing time. I just don’t see the fire in him like we used to see prior to the injury. Maybe a summer off will help him with that

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Apr 13, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cisco and Brooks did not square off much

I wasn’t paying close enough attention to notice whether Adelman elected to rest Brooks when Cisco came in, or whether Cisco came in while Brooks was resting.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hpe this brings closure

to the whole Kevin Martin thing. I think Kevin needed a game like that against the Kings. Not really to stick it to the fans, but to stick it to the Kings. As a fan of his, I’m happy he was able to come back to Arco and play great. He looked as quick as ever, and I still find it amazing he can get to the line whenever he wants. As far as the Kings go, I was hoping for the win on Tyreke’s night, but oh well. I guess that’s one more ping pong ball.

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse .... horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

by Dub_TC on Apr 13, 2010 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Before and After

One thing that really struck me from the game last night was the video tribute to Kevin. Watching his “old” hilights really illustrated the difference between his current game and what it once was.

Now admittedly, it was a bunch of hand picked clips, but many of them were super athletic finishes around the rim. Watching him play last night, sparingly this season prior to the trade, and all of last season (nursing a damaged ankle admittedly all season) really makes me question his ability to ever get completely right physically.

He’s obviously proven that he can play around an injury. Even his new pump-fake and fade-away only game is incredibly efficient; he’s deadly from everywhere still. But, he is not by any stretch what could be called a durable player.

Even after the trade he’s missed time with little nagging injuries. I’m not sure if the actual injuries he has suffered in the past were the concern, or if the probability of him continuing to be waylaid be “freak” injuries going forward weighed heavier on management’s mind. But it is clear to me that there is a net impact on Kevin as a player even when he is “healthy” from what he has suffered in he past.

If his athleticism really is dimished in the long term, I wonder how long teams will continue to fear his arsenal enough to keep him at the line all night. A player that can blow past you gets a different defensive look than a player who looks for the baseline fadeaway and pump-fake almost every posession.

by Hardly on Apr 13, 2010 8:24 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

He sure looked quick down the baseline when he flushed that one past Omri.

Looked pretty speedy making backdoor cuts off of picks, too.

Remember when we used to do that sort of thing regularly?

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Apr 13, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really miss back door cuts

that is a funny thing to not run anymore

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed, Sims

Martin had a couple of flushes off of baseline drives last night. So perhaps it was not Martin’s game that has changed, but the sets that the Kings were running.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

For most of the year

I was not aware we were running any sets

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ding Ding Ding, give that man a cigar.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Apr 13, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude

Kevin scorched people last night. He blew by defenders repeatedly. Same old Kevin in my book.

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

He

was ridiculous last night. It was nice to see him have such a good game, too bad it was against us.

by babasin on Apr 13, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess

you see what you want to see sometimes. You want to see ‘broken down Kevin’ , then you see broken down Kevin. I didn’t see a busted player zooming around and scoring 39.

by TheFifthMookie on Apr 13, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I should have been more precise I guess. I did mean to imply (and I sure didn’t say) that he is “broken down.” I can see a difference inbetween his lift and explosion from then to now, and I was suggesting that management might look at that, map it going forward and draw their conclusions from there. Kevin as he is now still has better quicks than 95% of the league. That, and we do tend to make players look a little faster than they are :)

by Hardly on Apr 13, 2010 9:00 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's not so much that he can't do those things anymore

but more like he doesn’t because they obviously are hazardous to him, he has adjusted to play a safer style while still being incredibly efficient, that’s being a good basketball player

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

The thing I liked

I listened to Kriedler on the Rise Guys this AM ….

He said that when Reke went to the free throw line to get the 20-5-5 …. he made the first. KMart went up to him right before the 2nd one, told him to calm down and relax, and he’ll get it.

Don’t know if that’s true or not, but if it is, I love it.

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse .... horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

by Dub_TC on Apr 13, 2010 9:22 AM PDT reply actions  

I didn't remember this from the game

So, I just reviewed the recording and it doesn’t show them talking, BUT it does cut to show Martin walking away from him just before his last shot. Looks like it happened to me.

The one thing that has stood out is that Kevin has class. That is something that few can argue with and if they do tends to show they don’t have much.

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone can argue Kevin doesn't have class

Anyone saying otherwise is just saying it, you have to have some basis of reality to have an argument.

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

they chatted for a bit after the game too

nice to see. Hopefully those two have some epic playoff battles in the near future.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

i dont like that move

I thought the rockets were all about winning last night? congratulate him profusely afterward, give him a big sloppy kiss if you want to – but don’t intentionally attempt to help your opponent score points during a game

and im a kevin martin fan – very bittersweet watching him light us up (and peaches barely mentioning it as he was just destroying us)

lets get one tonight for the offseason

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 9:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Evidently they were about winning

If I’m reading the scoreboard correctly.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

All he did was encourage his friend

It’s not like he dumbed down his game or anything, he still lit us up, I think you are looking too deep into it

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

i understand

he was encouraging his friend to score points that would help his own team lose – its not the same as letting him score, I know

not a cardinal sin or anything but I don’t like it

agree to disagree

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 10:01 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also, Kevin Martin said with all the support he had it felt like a home game

So was it bad on us to “intentionally” help him score 39 points and beat us?

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly how I feel

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

he was getting his 1 point anyway

what if the rockets lost by one point and you’re a rockets fan hearing about that?

I never said kevin martin was a bad guy player human or teammate

I said I disagree with that one little thing – methinks this reaction is a tad defensive

and the fact that he scored 39 and that they won has nothing to do with my point

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 10:05 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

What if the moon exploded?

It didn’t, so no worries.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

fallacies r us

I ran a red light – nothing bad happened = ok to run red lights

(and yes I know that losing an NBA game is not the same as a fiery car accident)

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 10:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hmm... fallacies... OK

He looked pretty nervous and could have missed. So, you never know.

My reaction is defensive? Hmm.. Seems like there is all kinds of crap that doesn’t represent the NBA and the players well, e.g. Arenas and his gun. I think that you want players who exemplify class more than thuggery. Maybe that is just me.

I disagree with your one little thing. Why is that hard to accept and why go ad hominid on me? I do raise a valid point and saying I am just being defensive is something of a fallacy, since you raised that up.

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

the fallacy remark was directed at otis

whose argument was a fallacy (rockets won anyway — therefore it does not matter)

I agree with all that you say regarding the nba and the types of players we want and that kevin martin is exhibit a. however I don’t think you should be encouraging your opponent to make free throws unless the game is decided. that’s all.

and I do think that your response was somewhat strong/defensive to my one minor nitpick on someone who you obviously like (who I like too). I think that is a byproduct of kevin-bashing.

its “ad hominem” btw :)
  

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 11:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yep, I spelled ad hominem and that spell checker had me doubting :)

I get what you are saying, but if one point made the difference it would be an issue. It didn’t

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fallacy or not

Your hypothetical is meaningless considering the Rockets won comfortably.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

To add

It’s about the same as Napear bitching about a first quarter technical foul call when the game is close in the 4th quarter.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

just because that one point did not wind up important does not mean it couldn’t have. my point exactly. easy to say now.

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 11:24 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

you never know which point will end up beating you

and that is why you value each one. the fact that peaches napear drones on about something ad nauseum does not mean that it isn’t a worthwhile point to make once – don’t give points away

by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2010 11:27 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's a silly microanalysis

You could say the same about an unforced turnover in the first minute of a game, or hell…losing the opening tip.

Making a big deal out of one incident in a game is silly.

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 13, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"

Sammyp831.

by SavageBeast on Apr 13, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

The next few days I am a Washington and Golden State fan!

We need these guys to win a game or two! As hard as our Kings have played against the Lakers this year I can’t rule out the fact that they could beat them…. so we need Golden State to WIN WIN WIN and Washington to WIN WIN WIN!!! Go Wizards! Go Warriors!

by Gravymonkey on Apr 13, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions  

The Golden Rule Is...

You never root for Golden State to win

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

You learn quickly

My young apprentice.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if I really despise the Warriors

Or just Don Nelson. Hmmmm….

I guess I couldn’t stand Joe Barry Carroll, Sleepy Floyd, and Purvis Short either.

by MichaelMack on Apr 13, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

They don't represent well

When you hear stories of Ellis saying he can’t play with Curry and then their team captain says he wants out…

I don’t hate them as I don’t have a reason to, but I don’t like them as I can’t find much to respect about some of their players, team and organization.

This is much different from my complete and total feelings about the [redacted].

by MustangMBS on Apr 13, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey if Ellis can't play with Curry we'll be glad to take him off Ellis' hands

Then he won’t have to explain why a rookie is outperforming him in every way anymore

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who cares about GS?

That’s like worrying about what the Clippers are doing. Sure we’re in the same boat right now, but I don’t expect that to continue. I have no problem finishing behind them this season, if that’s the way it works out.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 13, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Rockets would like to thank

Carl’s Jr. for sponsoring their uni’s last night.

by Sacto_J on Apr 13, 2010 1:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Carl's Jr.?

Are you crazy? That was the McDonald’s team unis.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yikes!


Hard to argue that one…

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 13, 2010 1:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Tyreke, quit being inappropriate with that trophy

and I thought he was classy

This is Black Dynamite for Anaconda Malt Liquor... Once you pop the top, the panties drop

by prowseinthehouse on Apr 13, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Damn Reke has filled out in a year.

Give him a couple more and we’ll have a monster.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Apr 13, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two years?

But yeah, big difference


in the arms and shoulders.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 13, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Sactown Royalty, the best community of Sacramento Kings fans in the universe. That's not my opinion; it's scientific fact.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Why #SayYes?
H0zca7s150tca95sfjscanfe1ybca7g7ohsca7s2phecadcfkcgcavang23cazdt3fpca3lwbl6ca97c92mcagt08cqca9mblmqcatpyt5lcano3ozbcapa2qy9caf2uy7ocaatxycicazwnb2scahv7ame_small
A Kings Fan's Guide To Yiddish
Demarcus-cousins-cho_small
A Micromoment in Time
Demarcus-cousins-kentucky-university-gestures-after-being-selected-the-sacramento-kings-the-fifth-overall-pick-the-2010-nba-draft-new-york_small
Just rewatched the game on TNT after being there....
Webber_in_tuxedo_small
A Story Within the Enemy Camp

Recent FanPosts

Elrontoro_small
Here is Cohn's positive response to my email
Small
Jj Hickson
Darth-vader_small
No Jimmer in the 3 point contest?!?!
Small
This Week's Asinine Trade Thread, February 12-20
Small
Here's to hoping for the best
S113399682030553_3084_small
Fan from a Far

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Editor

Loofie_small Tom Ziller

Joe_kleine_small section214

Demarcus_thornton_small Aykis16

Associate Editor

Coachie_small rbiegler

Banana2_small Exhibit G