"It didn't seem like he was alive. He had always had a zest. When I coached him in the summer league (in 2005), he was a live wire. I used to call him 'hotshot.' He would have one tip-in every game, sometimes two. He'd run the floor, and all of a sudden ... he wasn't the same guy."
Kings assistant Pete Carril on Kevin Martin, as quoted by FanHouse's Sam Amick
about 2 years ago
Tom Ziller
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Shocking.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
Finally, somebody TZ trusts with the cold, hard reality check
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Its funny how refreshing an honest opinion can be.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Huh, treat a guy like shit, and he doesn't like it. Fascinating.
4 assists in the first quarter if a game, and he’s obviously selfish. Sounds like the organization was as efficient driving Martin away as he was at scoring against us last week.
Well, almost as efficient.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
I don't know. That was Kev's side of the story and it wasn't particularly compelling.
He got chastised for breaking off a play (which happens to any player a dozen times over the course of the season) and he responds by shutting down emotionally for several games. Jesus Christ. The NBA is a stressful environment. Are the coaches supposed to walk on eggshells around him? If that was enough to drive him away, then he was a wus.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Apr 16, 2010 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
By all means, disregard the coaching merry-go-round, and playing on teams for five years which lacked any type of focus.
He’s gone, and he’s not your problem anymore. We’ll never have to suffer through another one of his 11 for 17 games where he scores 30 points.
Well, only 4 times a year.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Apr 16, 2010 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to say, he's an astonishing player.
Just since he’s come to the Rockets I’ve looked at the half-time box scores several times and said, “Holy crap, Martin has 18? When did that happen?”
Of course he might have been dispirited, this happens to human beings. Even the Great Rocket Deity Hakeem spent most of a year notably, publicly, pissed off at the team. Still effective, though, like Martin.
It seems like some people here are mad that he wasn’t LeBron, you know, able to take a team that would have just been terrible, and make it a contender. There aren’t that many late 1st rounders who you might even ask that of, though, are there? The fact that the question was considered says a lot.
The Rockets, fwiw, seem to be in the business of collecting unique players, or skill sets. Scoring a ton of points quietly and efficiently is a rare skill in the NBA.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Trust me
There’s not a single bit of new information in your post for this site.
If the purpose of your post was the last two sentences you could have saved yourself some time. Seeing as how Landry operates about as efficiently as Martin, I doubt anyone here is really all that impressed.
Teh Dego Dagger
That came off a little harsher than I'd intended
It doesn’t take much browsing of STR to see there are still many Martin fans here and a lot of contention as to whether he should have been traded or not.
Telling us what a unique talent Martin is really is like preaching to the choir.
Teh Dego Dagger
Telling us what a unique talent Martin is really is like preaching to the choir.
And red meat dangled before the Peaches Brigade, it would seem. You just can’t say anything positive about him to some people, X.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Pump the breaks there.
I’m about as anti-Peach, pro-Martin as you. If you can believe that. I knew years before Xiane posted that Martin was a special talent.
Teh Dego Dagger
by BPaoliano on Apr 16, 2010 3:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not quite sure why the hostility.
Mainly I was reporting the experience of someone outside the circle of Sacramento fans. For myself, I sometimes think certain groups of fans convince themselves of something, positive or negative, and it can be worthwhile to get an outside opinion.
I wouldn’t presume to tell most Sacramento fans something they don’t know about Martin, its only my opinion, and I’ve stated what I have seen. I’ve seen little of the negative things I read here, and elsewhere about Martin. He doesn’t seem terribly robust.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I, for one, appreciate getting an 'outsider' opinion
When we’re so invested in a situation it’s tough to see things clear, so yours is an important take, Xiane. As you’ll probably see, a lot of the negativity towards Martin comes not so much from his game but from how people feel about him. Sometimes you can;t change feelings.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Don't worry, I experienced it all with McGrady.
And I wasn’t always the most reasonable, that’s for sure.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I'll beat him up next time I see him Xiane.
Whip him into shape. LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's all good home skillet.
You know you’re always welcome. :)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Naw you'd just drink me under the table. :)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hostility unintended,
I assure you. In fact, if my attempt to reign in such harshness failed in my immediate reply, please believe this one. I merely intended to say that most of your post went without saying. Your opinion is welcomed and valued.
Teh Dego Dagger
No problem.
My therapist said it was all your fault anyway. That’s what I pay him for.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
No worries.
My delicate sensibilities will recover in time.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Your delicate sensibilities are soft. Toughen up.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Soft? No wonder Kevin Martin fits so well in Houston
/sarcasm
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Apr 16, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My sensibilities are the only soft thing on me.
Thank you, be sure to tip someone or other.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Apr 17, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
/ rimshot
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Riggghhhhttt
Funny how until this year, Kevin was a complete team guy. But we are less compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt than the coach we picked up off the scrap heap (and a coach that had issues with more than a few players this season).
Sorry, but this deification of Westphal (and Coachie for that matter) is nonsense. I like them as much as the next guy, but what have they really done in the NBA the last 10 years? I can’t really give them the benefit of the doubt over Kevin, just based on track records.
And it’s funny how that “wus” was putting up 39 to get a road win recently while our kickass coach was helping Tyreke chase his 23rd and 24th points rather than a win. That alone might tell you a bit about what’s going on in Kingsville.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
by otis29 on Apr 16, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm as big a Kevin fan as there is around here, but I'm sorry otis
I think you’re going a bit too far here, with the deification talk. I’m sure there’s plenty of blame on both sides. IMO, Kevin leaving is all on PW. But, so what? Kevin was GP’s baby. PW wanted to go in a different direction, he obviously was backed by the owners and GP was willing to go along with it. I think PW’s influence started with last seasons draft, and has been seen in every move since then. In the long run, this will benefit Kevin. I think he’ll do very well in Houston. Good for him. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad direction for the Kings to go in either.
And it’s funny how that "wus" was putting up 39 to get a road win recently while our kickass coach was helping Tyreke chase his 23rd and 24th points rather than a win. That alone might tell you a bit about what’s going on in Kingsville.
I don’t get this sentiment at all. I guess it’s safe to say you’ve exited the Tyreke bandwagon? You sported his pic as your avatar for most of the season, but now he’s teaming up with PW to destroy all that is good about basketball in Sacramento? Whatever.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not off the Tyreke "bandwagon"
I love the kid, and I’ve defended him as much as anyone on the ROY nonsense.
But I’m not such a homer that I believe the current management should be immune from criticism for their recent decisions. Especially Coach Westphal.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I don't know if PW is at fault or not. I'd be speculating either way.
But I am convinced that KMart was a bit of a wus. You’d never hear Michael Jordan complain about how his coach chastised him for breaking off a play and so he went into a funk for several games. That’s a bit embarrassing.
Yes, Kev was in a tough situation, with a coaching carousel and a very young team, and he was being treated all of a sudden like he had to prove himself all over again. That’s all tough, and I get it. But still, bit of a wus.
Hey, isn’t that part of why we loved him so much? He was this really talented NBA player who was a supernice kind of nerdy we could imagine being our buddy back in high school.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Kevin Martin isn't Michael Jordan? No kidding
I’m not convinced that Kevin Martin is a “wus”. I think that’s the spin that’s been attached to Kevin by the media, and abetted by the Kings themselves. You have anecdotal evidence, but whooptedoo, I have anecdotal evidence from the past three seasons that this franchise is clueless on how to turn around the product on the floor.
Is it a good idea to get rid of talent as soon as they become unhappy? Or would it be a better idea to thoroughly work through the issues first, confirm that there is no hope for salvaging the relationship, then dealing the player?
I've got squirrels in my pants!
if he's just unhappy, you work through it; if he's a wus, you deal him
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
It's "wuss" GOD DAMMIT.
I feel better. And Kevin Martin wasn’t one.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
It's why I kept putting it in quotes
I thought he might catch it. :)
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Urban Dictionary says it can be either way, and I've seen it
either way.
But the above few comments by you guys nailing me are very funny nonetheless.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
hilarious that
you used the “Urban Dictionary”
my main man “Webster” says its “Wuss”, because searching for “wus” gets you this
by TheFifthMookie on Apr 16, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
You win, chief, you win! I'm not advocating misspelling!
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
And apparently that clan ain't nothing to f*ck with.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
This is your main man?
Dude, you have awesome friends!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I know...
…but, I think he’s just bloated, man! He looks like a black Cartman. Lol!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus I don't think Westphal is the only one to blame here
If a co-worker was berating you in public and you boss was letting it happen, wouldn’t you feel a little dejected? I attribute any possible lack of enthusiasm on Kevin’s part to the negative tenor condoned and encouraged by King’s employees.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
By trading Kevin, we got enough salary cap relief to go after a max free agent this summer...
…Oh, and a guy named Carl Landry. Hate on the Kings management all you want, but I’d take that trade seven days a week.
The team improved their record, likely has the ROY, and another good draft pick. And “could” sign a marquee free agent. Yeah, sounds pretty clueless to me.
I like Kevin’s game. But, he’ll never be a leader on the floor and if he was constantly dropping 39 points a night (the way you make it sound), then he would still be a King.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I like the trade
IF the team uses their newfound cap space. Otherwise, you’ve just traded an efficient backcourt scorer for an efficient frontcourt scorer. And I dunno about everyone else, but Landry’s performance after the trade didn’t overwhelm me any more than Kevin’s performance prior to the trade.
And we would have had the ROY and another good draft pick regardless of the trade. And don’t forget, both of those were procured by the team being so damn awful. So IMO those points don’t really make a difference in the discussion.
PK, the only thing this team has done correctly in recent years is draft well, and work themselves into a good cap situation. They deserve credit for that – we’ll see if that is enough to overcome other bad personnel and coaching decisions.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Well I hope it bears out
Because I didn’t see Landry having a huge impact on the floor. But I will readily admit that may change when he has a full training camp with the team.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Those players really don't have equals.
They are clearly superstars. I think the point was comparing a comparably producing big to a guard.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
wow, you sound so flustered.
Thanks for reminding us that we got a guy named Carl Landry for Kevin. I think we had forgotten.
Quick Questio:, JT, Hawes, Landry, Omri, and Beno aren’t leaders and they definitely don’t drop 39 points a night, should we trade them all for cap space too?
I am not saying that I feel either way about the trade, but I am saying that putting too high of expectations on ANY one player (or even on cap space!) is dangerous grounds.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
It is a reply to phuterkings
use the [up] button to check who the reply is to.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I was truly flustered.
I have been incessantly gnawing at my fingernails because of your controversial post.
Or, maybe I was just making a few points. You don’t have to agree with my POV or be down with OPP or wait in line at the DMV or vote for the GOP. OMG.
Given the context of the thread, it had been stated that the organization is clueless, and I responded with some points. Please go back and outline for me where I stated that I wanted to trade every player that is not a “leader” or dropping 39 points every night. Many posts were lamenting the trade of K-Mart. I was simply providing reasons I like it.
Also, last time I checked, the management hadn’t applied the nickname “Face” to any of the players you listed, nor do they make as much as Martin’s salary. If your name is “Face” you better be a leader.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Kevin was awesome. Period.
Sure, there are negatives: Dude can’t play a lick of defense; has average handles; is an average passer. And he certainly came back from the injury ice cold. But his body of work speaks for itself. He’s a great scorer. And, IMO, always seemed to give his best while he was here. Honestly, though, I like the trade. I think it works well for both players and both teams.
by Kusian on Apr 16, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
With ya Kus.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 17, 2010 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions
That was an excellent post above Otis
I, too, have been surprised at how pleased everybody has been with PW. I think he has done fine, but certainly not great. I think he came in very aggressively this year, with players, rotation, attitudes, to try and prove that he should have been a head coach these last ten years. Some of it worked, some of it did not, but I never heard him defend Kevin in the media as he had his others players. If PW “liked” Kevin, he would still be on the team.
My main problem with Westphal
Is that the team lacked improvement over the second half of the season. The last two or three weeks of basketball reminded me a lot of last season.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I am in complete agreement with you about Westphal
The first half of the season was great! The team generated excitement among fans and generated a lot of media attention. The second half of the season was disappointing, especially when compared with the first. I do wonder if the team “tanked” at the end of the season. Perhaps not overtly, but still with the understanding they were generating more opportunities for next season.
As for Kevin Martin, that story is history. I am certainly not going to cast all the blame on Westphal. There is certainly a lot of finger pointing which can be made all around, including Kevin Martin himself. There were a multitude of factors, many of which we are probably still unaware, which played into the departure of Kevin Martin. We did get a solid consistent player in Landry, in return. For that, we can be thankful. We can bemoan the fact that Kevin dropped 39 big ones on us, but really, is anyone really surprised? The Kevin Martin chapter is over. There was way too much drama. Time to move on.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Apr 16, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There was no drama with Martin until it was created on the radio, and endlessly parroted online
Solid citizen, elite scorer, unassailable work ethic, the list goes on.
No drama at all, until someone had an ax to grind.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Apr 16, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 10 recs
It defies belief IMO
To think otherwise. This guy went from beloved teammate to Andrey Blatche in about two weeks. How dumb do you have to be to think this?
I've got squirrels in my pants!
by otis29 on Apr 16, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
they way the team handled this
made me doubt my fandom for a while, as all the venom sure seemed undeserved.
by TheFifthMookie on Apr 16, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Sims, I love you, but this is simply wrong
I live in LA and don’t get the local radio or TV stations, have never heard Peaches, only know what he’s said from this site. My opinion on Kev being a wusss (I’m compensating now) is based upon my own observations.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
thanks for making it easy
to ignore your opinion on this subject.
If you haven’t heard what the legend of peach has been spitting to a character guy, then you really just don’t know what you’re talking about in here. His diatribes on his afternoon radio show about Martin were morbidly offensive to me. He was harsher on Kevin than he ever was on Ron Artest, who was known to be of iffy moral fiber and known to take stretches of games off.
The inconsistency in our local media was glaring, but you’ll never know that.
by TheFifthMookie on Apr 16, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh please...
Yeah, I’m sure the team had it out for a guy who can be an efficient scorer on a reasonable contract. That’s why they kept telling every team asking about trade scenarios that he was unavailable.
C’mon. Now you guys just sound like a bunch of goddamned conspiracy theorists. It’s pretty simple. Grant saw “softness” in Martin that none of us did. Martin heard said soft comments and got butt-hurt. Said butt-hurtness affected his game and desire to play here.
If you can’t handle criticism then don’t get paid to play pro ball. And if you hate Peaches, then don’t listen to his show and write complaints to the organization until he shrivels up into a dehydrated peach and goes away.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You reflexively defend a franchise
That has just finished producing two of the worst seasons since the team moved to Sacramento a quarter of a century ago. Please forgive me if I find reason to question their judgement.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
You reflexively defend Kevin Martin and accuse the franchise of not keeping him happy.
I think I made points as to why I disagree with your premise that it’s the franchise’s fault. I didn’t necessarily defend the franchise. And even if I did, it’s probably because I’m a Kings fan first and a player fan second. So forgive me, too. We all forgive each other.
Just not Peaches, apparently.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
HUGS
All is forgiven PK. Here, have you seen my new avatar?
It’s some kind of armored guy holding a fish that looks like a weiner…cool!!!
I've got squirrels in my pants!
LOL!!!
what!?!
I’m still laughing, man. That’s great!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
The facial expression is priceless, too!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 16, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
It took me a while to capture that
I couldn’t figure out how to save images from those advertisements on the front page. Now that I know, I figure to be pretty dangerous.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
The fact that a radio personality and team employee
was allowed by management to create ANY sort of problem with a valuable player and team asset frankly astonishes me. That he was not reigned in when it came to the player who was THE most valuable on the team (pre Evans, I suppose) is almost unreal.
This is the case right? “Peaches” is employed by the Kings?
If the radio or TV crew in Houston decided to weigh in on Yao’s “softness” and it became an issue with Yao himself, there’d either be a very kissy public apology from the announcer or that employee would simply be gone, with chance of the door hitting his ass on the way out.
What the hell is going on in Sacramento that this sort of thing can happen?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Apr 16, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's the $64,000 question
Grant Napear has always found certain guys he likes to grind the axe on – normally, black quarterbacks are his purview. For some reason, he latched onto Kevin this season like Paris Hilton onto a…err…like a dog on a bone.
Being the known quantity that he is, Grant’s actions weren’t as surprising as the Kings appearing to be accomplices in the whole deal.
You make a great point about Kevin’s value as a player AND an asset to the franchise. How does allowing the meme of Kevin being “soft” and “mentally weak” do anything for you besides decrease his value on the market?
There could be a million reasons why this happened, but the simplest answer is that we might have a more inept management group than many of us in Sacramento would like to admit.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
or that Kev was a wussss
and the Mgmt was not about to kid glove him through a bit of Peaches harassment but was instead hoping he’d man up and respond with a bit of pride and anger.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Apr 16, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You don't damage your own brand.
Sure Grant could do what he did on 1140 as it was a separate gig, but as the face of the King’s announcing he had/has an obligation to not damage his own team and brand. This is basic business and he should have been reigned in and wasn’t.
Making the Kings complicit.
Yep
Let’s devalue a nice asset and devalue our brand so we can try to mentally toughen up our best player.
If that’s true, then it’s definitely a black mark on the franchise.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I can't speak to the extent of the Peaches harassment
Down here in LA, Phil Jackson often “devalues” assets in the name of motivation.
But if Peaches droned on and on endlessly, then I’d agree that enough was enough and mgmt should have intervened publicly.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Phil Jackson is never in the position of trying to build a winner
It’s to take really good basketball teams and put them over the top. Big difference.
Since I try to avoid Napear’s afternoon program as much as possible, I can only go by what has been reported over the last year on this website, and from guys like Sam Amick. It sounds like it was pretty consistent bashing.
The few times I did tune in and Grant was talking about Kevin, I was struck by the level of disdain Grant seemed to have for him. It seemed almost personal.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I used to commute for 40 minutes at 5:00 every week day
And I heard a lot of Grant over the years. It seems like he’s gotten harsher over time to me. This last year he went on about Kev so much that I just started tuning in to KNBR all the time by default. I swear for a month or so every time I hit KHTK, he was going on about “no heart” and “weakminded this or that”.
I moved a month ago, and now only catch 5-10 minutes of the Rise guys while i get ready in the morning. Less radio is awesome, not commuting is awesomer.
by TheFifthMookie on Apr 16, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm digging the Rise Guys with Kreidler
For some reason, that trio works well together, and I remember why I used to like Whitey so much.
But yeah, otherwise it’s KNBR on the commute to work, and KNBR/ESPN affiliate on the way home.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
oh man
Kreidler makes that show so much better. Just the intelligent approach to issues alone is refreshing on the radio
by TheFifthMookie on Apr 16, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I enjoy Kriedler
but let me proselytize:
Audiobooks FTW. Go to your local library. It may not make you smarter but sports radio may make you dumber.
by betweentheeyes on Apr 17, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a pretty big difference between the coach and a commentator
in terms of a critical role in player assessment.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Apr 16, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of the perception outside of Sacramento
I have to say the perception of Martin from people that I have talked to out here on the east coast is that he is soft too. It is not soft like he lacks mental toughness, or soft that we won’t play hurt. From what I gather it is partly just soft by association to a team that is perceived as soft, and soft because of his slight frame (not that i’m looking at is body in an AV way or anything!)
Also
From my time in Sacramento, my recollection of peaches’ radio show is that whenever someone calls in and makes a point that destroys his topic of the day, he calls them an idiot and hangs up. By all account, he really does sound like a true asshole.
Thanks
The thing is, an NBA franchise is a multi-million dollar company. Such entities rarely let marketing go around slagging engineering, for example.
For an NBA club its players under contract are an asset just below the worth of the franchise and media market itself, in terms of value. At least you hope your contracted players are assets.
Sometimes I guess a team might use its announcers as a way of getting a player’s attention if all else has failed, hoping that public outcry might reach him. That’s typically a very last resort, and maybe that was the case here. It still looks funny to the outsider.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Black QBs? Really?
Never noticed that. I don’t like Grant, but the dude does know football. In fact, he’s much better on that topic than any other. I know that he doesn’t think much of McNabb. Neither do I. Dude is a world class chocker, who manages to find a way to suck at the most inopportune moments. Nice stats. Never want him as my QB in the playoffs.
Oh, and he thinks Russell sucks too. But that’s a bandwagon we can all jump on ;-)
Yeah -
I don’t think that Grant sees color. Come to think of it, I don’t think that Grant can spell color.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 16, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Salty balls is a pretty distinct taste 214.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And you know this how?
;)
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 17, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Chef told me.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Started with Kordell Stewart
But he really hammered Donovan McNabb back in the day. And it’s not the quantity of black QBs he was on about, it was the disdain he had when he talked about them – kind of reminded me of his unusual bias towards Kevin.
Could be my imagination, but it’s something I noticed back when I used to listen to the drive time show a lot.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
It's all about the NYG emblem for Napes
He’d root for Kunta Kinte if he helped the Giants win a Super Bowl.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Ew - I'm almost defending the douchebag
I feel dirty. I think I’ll watch Aykis’ Grant/Tyreke video one more time and then head off to bed with the missus.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Your name is Toby
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
wow
There will never be another Kareem.
by MichaelMack on Apr 16, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
He dropped the Kunta Kinte
I was just playing along.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Peaches has two jobs
one as the Kings play-by-play guy, where he generally does a decent job (verbal ’Reke blowjobs aside) that none of us really have a problem with, and the other as a radio show host who blasted Kevin Martin ruthlessly and unleashes all sorts of other douchbaggery.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 16, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe he should just have one job?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Apr 16, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ding ding ding - give Xiane a prize
Just make sure that one job is somewhere outside of Sac
by MustangMBS on Apr 16, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually..
He is a decent play by play guy. His radio personality is this angry guy that is pretty awful and he really crosses major boundaries.
I still think he's a lousy play-by-play guy
But the common wisdom is that he’s still above average in comparison to most of the guys around the league.
That just makes me sad for the other cities around the league.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Like Portland's announcers
I remember hearing them say that Curry broke Fernandez’s rookie record for 3 because he’s allowed to shoot and Rudy wasn’t, but Rudy shot more 3s in his rookie year than Curry did in his rookie year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
That's pretty much the general sentiment here
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 16, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Well that's a far cry from deification and that quote I cited.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If you don't deify Kings management (which was actually a reply to Holmdel)
Then my statement clearly doesn’t apply to you, thus you shouldn’t get too upset about it. :)
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I wasn't and am not upset
I just thought it was a bit too far. Maybe you were just fighting hyperbole with hyperbole and I missed that.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 16, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly
I feel that what was mentioned in the article was only a small aspect of what we don’t understand. There may have been things going on behind the scenes with his teammates that we don’t know about , which, subsequently, may have made it difficult for him.
Considering his return to the team coincided with taking away shots from players and a decreased quality of play from Thompson and Casspi, I wouldn’t be surprised if they made it difficult for him to play with. Things like how players may have interacted with him to how they played with him in practice have to be kept in mind. Martin would also move around without the ball like crazy and wouldn’t get the ball in ideal situations during games. It’s never as clear cut as stories are made out to be in articles such as this one.
It was obvious they were not using him well enough
They weren’t running plays for him or setting him up in any way. Then to hear that PW called this guy, Martin, selfish. Wow, no wonder he stopped shooting and started setting up his teammates. I could not understand why he did that. He was dishing assists instead of taking wide open shots. I thought he lost confidence in his game or something… Looks like it was PW not managing this player very well.
I felt they were still running plays for him
I do remember him coming off screens a few times and he would get a shot off which , unfortunately, would not go in a lot of the time (with exception to the New York game where they went to OT and won, I remember it that way. I may be wrong). This would lead to the team or teammates going away from him during the course of the game. I don’t necessarily think it was PW as much as it was his teammates who wouldn’t really look for him when he moved without the ball, which effectively hurt an important aspect of his game.
For the sake of accuracy
the article doesn’t say Westphal actually called Martin selfish, it says that he “effectively accused him of being selfish”, so who knows what was actually said and how it was said. I generally agree with Holmdel’s sentiment above that Kevin should, as a professional at that level, be able to deal with even the harshest criticism from his coach without losing his game completely for awhile.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 16, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
You are mincing words here
If the meaning was that he is selfish then that is the message that was made. You can be subtle, but people aren’t stupid. Meanings are clear and conveyed. This really explains why he was passing so much on open looks and trying to involve his team more. He was doing what his coached asked him to do. Isn’t that his job?
If you take the comment for what it's worth
It seems to be a fairly honest description of a situation. I’m not blaming Kevin for anything or trying to be detrimental in the least. The analogy I can make is sometimes if you work for the same place for a long time you can lose the initial fire that you had and become complacent. Especially if your work environment has a boss which is constantly changing and your company is constantly losing money (translate that to the coaching carousel and the incessant losing).
However, sometimes a change in scenery can be phenomenal at reigniting the spirit that you had as things are new and you get a fresh start and have to make first impressions all over again.
I think that is fairly close to what happened with Kevin and the Kings. It is fairly obvious that this team isn’t winning anything for awhile and he has been de facto demoted to second banana on a team that was his. He had payed his dues and had earned his spot as top dog and some rookie (deservedly so but that’s another story) comes along and is all of a sudden the anointed savior for a team that he had carried for so long. It certainly didn’t help that he got hurt (and chastised for not playing by some douche). That kind of situation would affect any man in any situation and the BS argument that they get paid a shit-ton of money to deal with these things is not valid. Well, they do get a shit-ton of money but they are still human and have feelings and egos just the same. Being rich does not equate to being a robot.
by Mityt on Apr 16, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And if your new boss starts to marginalize you and doesn’t make you feel like you are a vital part of the team. Then gives you crap about the job you are doing and pushes you to do things you aren’t good at. Things that you won’t be as successful at and you see the writing on the wall…
by MustangMBS on Apr 16, 2010 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am with you here.
I get that Spencer needs to defend, but he really is not into the physicality of the Center position. Pushing him to be some big physical, “I am going to kick your ass,” dude isn’t really setting him up to succeed. He just ain’t it.
Perhaps the lesson is
That the departure of Kevin Martin tells us something about Westphal and Petrie, not just about Martin.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I have found that
Sometimes the assholes of the world help you move along in ways that end up benefiting you. You leave a job to get away from some freak-o-zoid and end up in a better situation. And the thanks go to the asshole. The Universe is an amazing place where basketball happens.
SactownRoyalty
…where “freak-o-zoid” happens!
Valid point + Hilarity. Well done sir.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Thank you! Almost everyone is trying to find a "Bad-guy" in this.
Sometimes a renter and a landlord don’t get along and the renter has to move on. Sometimes the landlord is a prick. Sometimes the renter is a slob.
But sometimes… Sometimes, the landlord has a specific requirement that isn’t necessarily unreasonable, but it doesn’t jive with the renter. Time for a move. It happens the same way in the professional environment. Sometimes you have a manager or boss that rubs you the wrong way. Does it mean you are a bad employee or that he/she is a bad manager?
Not always.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Apr 16, 2010 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes it has nothing to do with the landlord.
Sometimes it might be a bad neighbor who spreads a lot of bad things about the renter. Other neighbors believe some of the crap and the renter decides to leave.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I'm with you on this Zen.
It was time for a breakup in the Martin-Kings dynamic. Peaches just being an asshole sort of gets the Martin contingent worked up more so than less.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He is gone. No sense crying over spilt milk.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
K-Mart looked alive when he dropped 39
last week at Arco, huh? I thought Coachie was above taking verbal snipes at guys, but I guess whenever there is a break-up there is some lingering animosity and resentment.
Trading Kevin was the right thing to do, but blasting him in the press is a little petty.
I honestly didn't see the Coachie quote as "verbal snipes" or "blasting him in the press".
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 16, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree!
Coachie is just telling it how it is. If you talked to Kevin privately, off the record, I assume he would admit as much. Its hard enough to keep up your spirits on a losing team, its even harder when people are pointing the finger at you.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
I don't think it was a shot at Kevin..
… Coachie was just being honest and I think if most of us are being honest we did see a change in Kevin over the past two years.
I think the bleeding of talent and all the losing really took a toll on him. When Bibby and then Artest were traded, I think that was like a 1-2 punch in the gut to Kevin. He really liked playing with those guys and (at the time) we basically got nothing in return. He came into a competitive environment and it steadily degraded year-by-year and it did affect his morale/energy.
by Kevin Conroy on Apr 16, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Bottom line:
Kevin didn’t want to be here anymore, and he didn’t deserve to be part of a losing team any longer either.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
As Clint Eastwood would say...
“Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it”
That it worked out that way is nice for both parties.
A few thoughts
Dallas and Houston appear to be teams on the rise and they both wanted him and Houston got him. I just have a fear that in a few years that Kings fans will see Martin being a great scorer in the league and wonder what went wrong. Good teams wanting a player on our team would seem to indicate that maybe he has some talent. He also lit them up for a quiet 39 when he came back would emphasise that.
Having read the Jordan Rules a few years ago, Jordan would bust plays all the time as he was concerned that he would not get enough shots, and that why should he share shots in the Triangle when he was the best player so why should BJ Armstrong get as many shots as him
All good players have egos its up to the coach to figure out how to manage them, Mike Brown may not be the best coach but Lebron likes him, players buy into what Phil Jackson sells them. To use another Jordan Rules example Jackson used Horace Grant as a punching bag to get his point across to Pippen and Jordan, he would yell at him for not rebounding and playing D or taking bad shots, because Grant wouldn’t pout like Pippen or tune him out like Jordan would.
I would suggest that coming in as the 24th pick out of Western Carolina Martin didn’t have a real sense of entitlement coming in and that he relatively speaking has had to earn that he has got, as opposed to a lottery pick who has expectations of being a great player before they have played a game. Over the last few years could have Kevin been a bit tougher mentally with what Theus and Westphaul have told him yeh there might be some truth to that. Also is you saw the slack that Bibby whose Defense was attrocious and Artest who was/is a loon, but when he gets injured there is the insuation that he is soft and is a bad team mate
Did anyone see the 30 for 30 on Reggie Miller, Reggie to be an effective player had to have plays run for him, ie picks and screens set as he really could not create his own shot, a good coach it seems to be realises what a player can do and puts him in situations for him to succeed. This year I don’t think the Kings did that constantly with Martin, why they didn’t is puzzling to me. I’m saying Kevin was any where the player Miller was more that how he was used
Is there blame to be shared obviously but what this article says to me is what happened and how it has been spun is an indication of things that don’t add up
Miller had balls
Kevin doesn’t, big difference.
Big balls of THC in his pee, you mean?
Please keep citing Brad Miller as a tough guy to justify your irrational complaints about Kevin Martin. All of the giggling you provide is good for my health.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Might have been, I thought he was referencing the Brad Miller to Houston rumor.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Damn, missed out on the Kmart discussion.
First, why would people come on here to tell those is debate about Kmart’s departure to “move on.” Aren’t discussions like this what these sites are all about?
Second, I hate to say it, because I was/am a huge Martin fan, but it seems Kmart was told he was no longer The Man and he went into a shell. Tyreke’s talents far outshined Kevin’s, and perhaps Kev didn’t see it that way. It’s frustrating mostly because the potential of a Reke/Kmart backcourt was incredible, and the coaches/players could not make it work.
Kevin's in trouble
once players learn not to bite on his pump fake that he does every time he gets the rock. Because Kevin likes to shoot from the hip, he has to pump fake to create a shot for himself. He can’t rise up and shoot over defenders with his shooting style.
Anyway, he’s soft physically and mentally. I HATE guys that don’t give 100% every season and he definitely didn’t give us 100%. I don’t care what the situation is, be a professional and step up. I still think the majority of Houston fans miss Landry. I’m not missing Martin.
Haha, 6 years in, and the guys who he practiced and played with for years were still biting on that pump fake.
Don’t hold your breath. On, second thought…
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Apr 16, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Funny too
That this kid who went from a no-name, unheralded college player to one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA through hard work…turns out to be a big puss.
I’m surprised he can get from A to B without breaking out in tears.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Assumption
Good players like to play with other good players, I just find the logic that Kevin once Tyreke was given the keys to the team quit on the team to be a faulty assumption, and isn’t based of fact. Well it is if you believe Peaches and Lamb (weren’t there a soul group in the 70’s?).
I liked Kevin and think there is more to the story than has been mentioned thus far
That and for someone with a great post game, Landry sure seems to shoot a bunch of jumpers.
Time will tell the correct course, I just hope its not the Kings who acted like JT in Survivor last night
It's nice to see the Kevin Martin drama hasn't departed yet.
Yay!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Funny how many Kevin homers are on this forum
Kevin is soft, and has been soft, for the last 3 seasons. He was never a leader, never played defense, and never won, at any time, anywhere. He is a lethal scorer, for the first the quarters. For how much Kevin scores, he’s absolutely horrible in the last 5 minutes. In fact, he usually hurts the team, because he also gets beat consistently on defense.
Kevin blossomed and became a very efficient scorer a few seasons ago. But he NEVER developed any other part of his game. Never improved ball handling. Never improved his passing or playmaking. Never improved defensively, in fact got worse. He NEVER put in the work to become anything other than a complete and utter one dimensional player. And how many times did we have to see Kevin force up some weekass 10 ft floater, or just jump into his man looking for a foul after picking up his dribble and repeatedly pumpfaking, with the game on the line. Kevin is absolutely HORRIBLE with the game on the line.
Where's that douche button?
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 17, 2010 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He's a douche nugget.
He has complained about Kevin over at the Dream Shake. That’s all he seems to care about too. Probably a Laker fan.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not a nugget
a full blown douche boulder, imo.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 17, 2010 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Recapping -
You’ve joined two sites and spent more than half of your comments (to date) bashing Kevin Martin. I’m very sorry that he (a) stole your girlfriend or (b) broke up with you.
Good luck in the future with your endeavors, at least until it leads to a restraining order.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Noice.
BUt you forgot the possibility that he’s actually Peaches in disguise.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 17, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
And your point, Romulinn?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Too bad you Kevin apologists can't admit the truth
Kevin sucks! Sorry I hurt so many feeling with the truth. Lol.
All of you keep holding on to the glory days of the Kevin Martin era. The countless playoff wins. The intensity. The drive. The leadership. The ability to perform in the 4th quarter. The incredible offseason work ethic where he adds to his game every summer.
Wait….. I’m obviously talking about someone else, right?
No one is holding on to anything except you.
Kevin is gone and the team has moved on. Why don’t you?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
romulinn
live long and prosper. Jut not here please.
your bad Col. Nathan R. Jessup is tiresome. This site is looking for a Few Good Men (and Women). Therefore, you do not belong. Handle that truth.
Coming here and patently throwing out “Kevin Sucks” comments on a site where Kevin Martin is respected and for the most part appreciated bespeaks a level of beligerence that cries for attention, even of the negative variety. You have said your piece and we have supplied you with the distaste you crave. Now please, be gone or wear the label of troll.
by betweentheeyes on Apr 17, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
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