What the Kings Need
by Tom Ziller on Apr 30, 2010 9:28 AM PDT
in NBA Draft
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PrintFor the second straight, as soon as the D-League Finals wrapped up, Ridiculous Upside morphed itself into SB Nation's NBA draft hub. For the next two months, RU will be home to daily content on the draft, including mocks, prospect profiles, news and more.
To kick it off, RU's Scott Schroeder has asked SBN's team blogs to describe what they need. For Kings fans, this is either an easy question or a very difficult question, depending almost completely on how optimistic one is regarding the team's young players not named Tyreke Evans. If you think the kids are OK, you might be looking to fill specific holes. If you think this team currently has one quality starter, well, you might be asking for everything.
So let's hear it. What are the Kings' most glaring deficiencies, both position-wise and skill-wise? Rec answers you like, vote in the broadly-presented poll and we'll compile some results and hand it over to RU.
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I think Center is the greatest positional need
But both the frontcourt and backcourt would appear to need a rotation piece.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
by otis29 on Apr 30, 2010 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Center is the biggest need
And it appears the majority of people voting were thinking the same thing.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Positional - PF/C
For obvious reasons. I say PF/C because I think if we acquire a good PF, JT could slide to center without much of a reduction in effectiveness.
As far as skill set I’d say interior defense, and outside shooting. These can’t be had from the same player, obviously, but I hold out hope that as Omri improves his conditioning, his shooting will improve as well.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
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--Daisy Owl
Cute
But no. I believe that our biggest need is interior defense, so I would choose center. That said, I would not draft Cole Aldrich with the #1 pick to address that need. I would opt for the BPA, and look elsewhere for my center. But hey, that’s just me.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I voted for Center
It’d be great to get Demarcus Cousins, but if we got a higher pick, I wouldn’t be mad about getting a non-center like John Wall or Evan Turner. We need talent, more than a specific position.
put me in, Coach
by LaBradford on Apr 30, 2010 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I voted "Center", but honestly I don't think "positional need" really applies to us in this draft
The reality is we’re getting a top 6 pick, most likely a top 5, and a pretty good chance at top 3. We really need talent and chances are we’re going to get a shot at some real talent. I don’t think the Kings’ front office goes into this draft thinking about position at all. Hell, I’d even suggest that the Kings’ front office never really goes into a draft thinking about position (even last year, when everyone knew the Kings wanted a point guard, they ended up taking the player considered the least point-guardy of the point guards).
Also, I think both Petrie and Westphal tend to have non-traditional concepts of basketball positions anyways, with Petrie placing a high value on versatility and Westphal placing a high value on player combinations and chemistry (how a five-man unit plays as a whole, regardless of actual positions).
In a semi-related sidenote, I had a dream recently that the Kings got the top pick and drafted John Wall. It was effing awesome, and in my dream there was no issues with how he and ‘Reke meshed. Running and gunning, dominant speed and skill, a veritable orgy of athleticism. I saw alley oops galore, I saw covers of Sports Illustrated and highlight after highlight. Obviously I’m not saying that reality would be anything like my dream (my Scarlett Johannsen/Kate Beckinsale dreams have never come true. FYI, in my dreams there are no issues with how those two mesh either), but it’s sure fun to imagine the possibilities.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 23 recs
I agree with this
I voted power forward, and ultimately feel like we need a PF or C to strengthen our big man rotation. But as ASSN said, we need talent. Take the BPA, the player who GP thinks is best.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Well-expressed.
Westphal placing a high value on player combinations and chemistry (how a five-man unit plays as a whole, regardless of actual positions
This is the first time I have heard someone describe Westphal’s perpetual experiments with the starting lineups in this way. As quirky as they sometimes seemed, those experiments do make more sense when you put them into the context of his placing a high value on “player combination and chemistry.” He did eventually settle on a starting five of Tyreke, Beno, Greene/Nocioni, Landry, and Spencer/JT.
I like your dream and hope that it will prove to be a clairvoyant view into the future. (Referring to Tyreke and Wall – not Scarlett and Kate)
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Great stuff!
We need talent like crazy. Sure we need, our biggest IMO, a big monster C who can bang, but it isn’t like we don’t need way more depth all over.
Big ups for this.
I agree. But if the best player available happens to be a shot blocking phenom with great footwork and back to the basket moves in the low post, I’d be more than stoked.
Scarlett Johannsen/Kate Beckinsale? Lovely.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I hope peaches was in it
Can you beleive these kids are not even 21? Check their id’s OH Boy if you dont like these boys you dont like nba baskeball, oh boy
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
Thanks for ruining it for me.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 1, 2010 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
sorry it should have said I hope Peaches was "not" in it..I guess that makes me the douche for the day
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
Ultimately, I think we need a tandem of front court players who can carry the offensive and defensive load against very good opposing front courts. Personally, I feel like Hawes has a chance at contributing offensively against very good front courts. JT looks to me like he’d be ideally suited to an “energy off the bench” role— crucial for a contending team, but better as a reserve than as a starter. I may be absolutely wrong here, but that’s where I’m leaning for now.
Because of that, I voted PF, but what I’d really love to vote is “A big man who’s a defensive game changer”, regardless of his being PF or C.
Much like most everyone else here, though, I strongly agree that with a record like ours, you take the best player there rather than the one at our weakest position, given that our record indicates that most of our positions could use an upgrade.
The Kings need many things
The biggest thing they need is a defensive presence inside, but talent trumps all depending where we draft. Now if talent is considered equal, then I think you consider fit. My current top 6 for the Kings (in order) is Turner, Wall, Favors, Cousins, Aminu, Johnson. Now this is because I think Turner and Wall are both talented and because Turner would fit better next to Tyreke. Geoff Petrie could think differently and ultimately, its his opinion that matters. He’s shown that the draft is his strong point and other than the Spurs hive mind, I would find it hard to find a better or equal drafting GM.
Now the 2nd round pick is where I think you can start looking at need more. This is going to be a very big talent pool to select from (according to DraftExpress, 103 people have declared for the draft, most in a long time, if not ever). I think Jordan Crawford has a place in this league. Long, athletic, and can score in bunches. He also can step up in big time situations. I think he’ll actually find his way into the 1st round, but if he doesn’t snatch him up.
Another guy I really like here is Artsiom Parakhouski, big guy who can rebound, score and defend. He’s 6’11, 260 lbs, averaged 21.4 points on 58% shooting, 13.4 boards, and 2.1 blocks. Yes, he played for a small school, but so did JT and he was considered Lottery worthy by Petrie, and Parakhouski’s stats are similar if not better in a lot of areas to JT (Art plays defense without fouling too, averaging only 2.2 fouls in 35 minutes).
Gani Lawal and Quincy Pondexter might also drop to the 2nd round and Lawal was considered a lottery pick at times last year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Apr 30, 2010 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
I think I'm done with guys named Quincy.
I’ll gladly take your advice on other second round options, though.
Every time I see Turner ahead of Wall on anyone's list I want to stick a fork in my eye
No offense to you personally Aykis, but I don’t see how anyone could possibly look at Turner and see him as a player who is both more talented and a better offensive fit for the Kings. Turner’s not as talented, not as athletic, he’s a worse shooter, he turns the ball over more, and his game depends even more than Wall’s on having the ball in his hands at all times.
Maybe your (and others) decision is based on a desire to have Evans at the PG long term, but given how much better Evans played with Beno at the point I don’t see how it’s worth the dropoff in talent and athleticism. While I think we all like the matchup problems that Evans causes for opposing PGs, the fact is that he was better operating off the ball, posting up, getting the ball in different places on the floor, and letting someone else handle the playmaking. At 6’4"/6’6" Wall/Evans would still be a matchup nightmare for most backcourts, especially athletically. Teams might have a defender who can bother Evans, but they don’t have two to keep up with both Wall and Evans.
Gah, Section is right. Turner really is turning into my Rubio this year. If everyone starts making Turner avatars I may lose it.
by nbrans on Apr 30, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
I consider Turner to be more skilled than Wall
and Wall to be more gifted. And the truth is, I probably haven’t seen as much of them as you have (only about 5-6 games of each for me), but I see Turner as Brandon Roy and Wall as Derrick Rose. I’d rather have Roy.
Still, if we drafted Wall I’d be just as psyched as anyone else. As much as I like Favors, I don’t think you can pass up on either Wall or Turner to draft him. Either one of those backcourts (Reke/Wall or Reke/Turner) would be insane I think.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think Rose is a good comparison for Wall
But I don’t think Roy is a good comparison for Turner. Roy, in my opinion, is a much better athlete and is a better shooter, which makes a big difference. I know Roy wasn’t really much of a 3 point shooter until his senior year, but he had much more of a midrange game than Turner. I see Turner as more of a poor man’s Reke.
I think Turner is the best SG in the draft and he’s a good shot creator, I just see Wall as a better fit because he can slash, run the break, catch and shoot (though needs to improve). Turner’s game is all fifteen feet and in, just like Tyreke, and I don’t see how they’re going to compliment each other.
Turner shot 36.4% from 3 this year with 1.8 attempts a game
Wall shot 32.5% from 3, with 3.1 attempts a game.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I like Turner a lot more than you do, nbrans
But I would not select him over Wall.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm probably more down on him than 99% of the population
Which means there’s a really good chance I’m wrong.
Just to clarify too, I think Turner is going to be a good player. I think he’s definitely got a place in the NBA and will be a solid contributor, especially if his shooting keeps improving. I just don’t see him surpassing, say, Caron Butler, and definitely not approaching Brandon Roy. But I’m not saying he’s going to be a total bust.
I think of him a lot like James Harden last year – people were selling Harden as a future star (and also making Brandon Roy comparisons), and I thought that was off-base too. Harden is solid and probably a future starter, but not likely a star because he doesn’t have the athleticism you need to be a star guard. Reke, by comparsion, has quickness and strength that Turner and Harden lacks.
I'd have to agree everything you said
Wall is a better fit.
Turner is more of a poor man’s Reke.
Turner’s game is all fifteen feet and in, just like Tyreke
At 6’4"/6’6" Wall/Evans would still be a matchup nightmare for most backcourts
Some people are making their decision based on a desire to have Evans at the PG long term
Most telling is that Turner is a junior, and as such should be closer to his overall ceiling than a frosh. Also, putting Evans and Turner in the backcourt with such similar games just makes it easier for teams to set up a defense to stop them.
I also believe that Wall has been touted as the #1 pick since he was in high school. And, there are some supposed experts that are afraid to go against the grain, and so still have him as the #1 pick. There hasn’t been this much hype over a guy since Rubio. Wall’s not a great ball handler, weak left hand, no mid or long range shot and doesn’t shot well off the dribble. So, at least right now, I don’t see him as being any better or worst than Turner. Because of his age and athleticism, his potential is greater and for right now he’s probably a better fit for the Kings.
Having said that, Wall is the best PG, Turner the best SG, Cousins the best center, and Favor the best PF in the draft. And, if GP gets the 1st pick in the draft, I wouldn’t be surprised if he took any one of the 4. It’s all going to come down to who the Kings FO feels has the greatest potential.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Apr 30, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I honestly think that they wont work...
Dont get me wrong, i want Reke and Wall to mesh on the court but it most likely wont. Unless Wall learns to share a spotlight. I just dont see it..
by RekeHAVOC_13 on Apr 30, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
look at the way beno and reke meshed....it was just fine
and with reke working on his shooting in the off season it will make him a more versatile guard thereby making the likelihood of a new back court mate a success next to him, including but not limited to John Wall.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Apr 30, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm curious
Did Wall not share the spotlight with Cousins, Patterson and Bledsoe? I mean, where did he get this reputation? I watched a lot of Kentucky this year – sometimes Bledsoe ran the offense, sometimes with Wall on the floor.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 30, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not the spotlight
He’s a high usage guy. He’s at his best with the ball in his hands and as such sharing the ball with Tyreke Evans when his personal brand and career are at stake are not in his best interests. Sharing the ball with Eric Bledsoe is one thing; sharing the ball with the reigning ROTY (who is being touted as a franchise player) is entirely different.,
I’m not saying you don’t know this. I know you do.
The question for the Kings is adding Wall and adding a big better than adding a big through the draft and braving the wrath of a fanbase that will be frothing at the mouth if Wall is not taken?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Honest questions -
If the Kings got the first pick and drafted Wall, could you see the Kings dealing him to New Jersy for B.Lopez? Would the Nets do that? Is B.Lopez > Cousins or Favors?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I like your thinking
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 30, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmmm
I doubt it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But getting an extra pick
Dumping Noc’s salary and getting Favors (possibly Cousins) is.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah I want it just because of the power that comes with it.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Apr 30, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather have Wall than Lopez
And I’m a big Lopez fan.
Lopez has the potential to be one of the top 5 centers in the league. Wall has the potential to be one of the top five players in the league.
by nbrans on Apr 30, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So who do you plan on trading Tyreke Evans for?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You cross that bridge if you get there.
by nbrans on Apr 30, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this
Frazier/Monroe if it works, trade out of it if it doesn’t.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Let me reply with this
When’s the last time 2 young HIGH PROFILE G’s, with 1 year or less of NBA experience, worked together in the backcourt.
This isn’t Monroe/Frazier. This is 1971. A lot of shit has changed in 40 years gents.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
isn't 1871^
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also Monroe wasn't going to be traded for either.
And the Knicks had DeBusschere and Reed on the front line. Totally different circumstances. Unless you think JT/Shawes compare to Willis Reed & Dave DeBusschere.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That is true, pookey. Clearly they don't compare.
But besides just plain good old talent, (five players enshrined in Springfield, four named to the All-Time 50 greatest list ) one remarkable aspect about those amazing Knicks championship teams was their off-the-charts collective basketball IQ.
Reed, (who was of course was the team captain) and Frazier both had legendary court awareness.
Before coming to the Knicks Dave DeBusshere had been a player/coach for the Pistons… at the age of just 24! The guy was extremely smart and went on to be the Commissioner of the ABA and an NBA front office guy.
Bill Bradley of course was an All-American at Princeton, Rhodes Scholar and future US Senator.
Coming off the bench on the ’73 championship roster was future USC Coach Henry Bibby.
And on both Knicks title teams was another rather astute student of the game, a hirsute young power forward named Phil Jackson.
In short, they played extremely smart, team oriented basketball and knew the game backwards and forwards.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 1, 2010 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the valuable history lesson.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
At the helm was Red Holtzman, their coach
and the reason for their success. He was a big advocate of the Princeton Offense before it was called by this moniker. (Butch Van Breda Kloff was the coach at Princeton while Bill Bradley was there (“A sense of where you are”). The Knicks were known for hitting the open man (Dave DeBuschere’s champ season dairy/summary “The Open Man”). If you listen to Zen Phil he gives a lot of credit to the Triangle to Holtzman because as a Knick they were always moving without the ball.
Also on the intellectual front, the ‘73 Knicks had Jerry Lucas (known for his incredible memory – he memorized the New York Phone Book!). But for smarts and playing with beauty, the ’69-’70 Knicks were a site to behold. (My first pro game attendance was Game 1 of the Knicks v Bullets double OT at the Garden.
by betweentheeyes on May 1, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How old was Norm Nixon when he was teamed with rookie Magic?
Thomas/Dumars?
And really, I’m not worried about next year, so the one year or less is not relevant to me. It’s how they will play together in a couple of years.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Norm Nixon was not ROTY. He was not the same level of player as Tyreke is.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed
I’m not sure that has anything to do with this conversation, but agreed.
Understanding that Frazier/Monroe was 40 years ago, I still think that that type of combination would be successful today – perhaps even more successful, given the hand check rules that exist today.
Simply, I just don’t think that there is enough data to reasonably support that Wall/Evans will or will not work together. The only way to find for sure is if they have the opportunity to play together.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Your point about Nixon is a good one.
He is a quality player, and his play didn’t necessarily drop because of Magic’s rookie season.
But my question is this: If there isn’t enough to data to say they will or won’t work together, why not focus on need with talented players on the board?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't see what experience has to do with it
The important thing is style of play. I agree that there may be the potential that they won’t mesh well together, but I think Wall will shoot well enough that he can be kind of like a rich man’s Beno – playmaking, creating, and letting Evans play off the ball.
I’m not going to say it definitely will work, but even if it doesn’t it’s not the end of the world. Better to get the best player than obsess over fit. Lots of people didn’t think Evans/Martin would work, and hey, it didn’t work so great. I don’t think that then means that the Kings shouldn’t have drafted Evans.
by nbrans on Apr 30, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't understand (and never will) the desire to make Evans a prototypical 2 guard
He is a combo G, and always will be. Finding players that fit his game, like Beno, will be the bigger challenge.
I think John Wall and delusions of grandeur are what’s cropping up here. Nothing wrong with that.
Having said that, bigs are so hard to find in the NBA. Finding one’s that make a difference is as hard to find as a real franchise player IMO. It’s a good thing none of us are making the pick.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Right now,
I see both Evans and Udrih as 1.5’s. I see no reason why Wall could not adopt a similar role. Maybe he wouldn’t. We won’t know unless it has a chance to happen.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
nbrans, pookey, & section very nice discussion
nice point / counterpoint.
Let me add some info about this years playoff teams.
3 of the 16 playoff teams had 2 top 10 picks in their backcourt. Chicago (drafted both), Dallas (traded for both), and Atlanta (traded for both). Dallas and Atlanta have a #2 & #10, while Chicago has a #1 and #7. Also the average experience of the starting backcourts was 14 years.
11 of the 32 backcourt players in the playoffs were top 5 picks
24 of the frontcourt players in the playoffs were top 5 picks.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Thunder
Westbrook #4, Harden #3
Though Harden doesn’t start (yet).
- Augustin, #5 Felton, #8 Hughes
- Roy #8 Miller (#11 Bayless)
by betweentheeyes on May 1, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
weird
I didn’t number those and it erased #6 Roy. Oh well.
There is a lot of talent there.
by betweentheeyes on May 1, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes there are 16 top 10 picks in the playoff backcourts
although I believe we’ll pick in the top 5 so that was my primary interest. And, there are 34 top 10’s in the front court if you include Bogot, Oden, and Przybilla.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I would be very tempted...
I am not as sold on Wall being a once in a generation player as everyone else. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a great player, but I think it is very possible that he turns out to be on par with Derrick Rose (All-Star but not once in a generaltion type guy).
My ideal situation is package Spence with the #1 pick to GS for Steph Curry and the #3 or #4 pick (and then we take Favors or Cousins).
I Would think that Curry is pretty much the only untouchable piece over there at GS
He would be If they were smart anyway..
GS isn't trading Curry.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Again, let's not outsmart ourselves with this whole Wall/Tyreke thing
I’m not saying you don’t have valid points and concerns, Pookey, but I think we can all agree that none of us know for sure how that backcourt pairing will work out until it’s given a chance. The reality is, it could work out spectacularly, regardless of historical precedent or how their “styles” fit together on paper. Or, it might not work out so great, and then chances are we’ll still have some pretty great options for going in another direction. I understand that you’re concerned about missing-out on Favors. I’m concerned about missing-out on what could be a young backcourt the likes of which the league has never seen.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 1, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
On paper
Kevin and Tyreke were supposed to be perfect.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 1, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh – not really. I thought from the very beginning that two ballhogs were going to be an issue. Beno may be a point guard, but he’s perfectly capable of operating without the ball. Not once had you ever seen Martin manage the same.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I find this interesting
Over the period that in Martin’s career where he has averaged over 20 points per game (the past four years), he has averaged 14.5 shots per game, which would rank him tied for 21st amongst shots taken per game this year. Not exactly a chucker. Further, Martin and ball-dominant Aaron Brooks seem to be co-existing nicely in Houston.
I don’t deny that Martin may have ultimately needed a change in scenery. But I don’t think that him being a “ballhog” led to his exodus.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 1, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hrm.
Aaron isn’t Evans. He’s grown a bit in his last few years.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean, by that statement, that he’s become more of a PG and less of a SG at the PG position. Evans is a SG at the PG position – the reason he manages to function as a PG is because of the open looks he creates by penetrating.
Martin was exactly the same sort of player. Aaron was, but he’s adapted himself to serve as more of a passer than he was in the beginning.
That said – I am still somewhat sad that Martin and Evans never turned out. I hoped, even if I didn’t believe.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
It was never given a proper chance
The Kings moved on and that’s fine, hopefully it’s for the better. Saying it didn’t work it’s innacurate IMO.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Also, Beno and Evans work well together because Beno has floor vision, and looks to pass first. He doesn’t need the ball as Evans does. So Evans can dominate, and Beno can be subjugated, and nobody is irritable. Evans creates off of penetration and threat of penetration, and Beno creates by seeing the seam.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
The stats don't really support your statement
Brooks and Evans each took 16.2 shots per game this year. Evans had more assists (5.8 to 5.3) and a slightly better assist/turnover ratio (1.93 to 1.89).
Statistically, they were very similar this year, with the “playmaking” edge going to Evans.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And 1 -
If you watched Houston over the last couple of weeks of the season, you would have seen them running double and triple screens for Martin. much in the same way that Indy used to do for Reggie Miller. For the first time in his career, Martin’s team is running sets to get him the ball, as opposed to handing him the ball and telling him to create on his own.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I’m not sure what that’s got to do with Martin not being a hog – once he gets the ball, he’s shooting it.
Evans will probably shoot the ball, but he might pass it.
Aaron will do both things equally.
Again – that’s what it seems like to me.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
It's the difference between freeing him up (which he needs) and asking him to create on his own.
Kevin Martin is not an isolation player, and frequently he was asked to do that in recent years.
Kevin Martin is not a ballhog nor is Beno Udrih a PG for that matter.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I’m referring to mentality, honestly – having watched them both play. But shoot, I could have just caught him on a good day, it’s fair.
I admit that I didn’t reference stats (and that maybe I should before forming opinions in some cases) – I should include disclaimers by many of my comments that state that my observation of habits in games form many of my opinions.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Additional stats to support Section's idea
Their usage rates ave very similar: Evans-26.2%, Brooks- 25.7%. So they both have the ball in their hands a lot.
Assist%s are very similar as well: Evans-26.1%, Brooks-25.6%.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 1, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m willing to give up.
:)
I still think Brooks relies less on penetration than he did a couple of years ago. I still think Evans hasn’t developed the sort of vision that Brooks has, yet.
But the stats tell me that they are close to the same in playmaking ability, and I won’t argue with that.
I still like Beno and Evans as gaurds – what one lacks in playmaking ability, the other seems to be able to fill in.
by Charles L. Pierro on May 1, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually agree Brooks drives less than Evans does
That’s one reason I think it works for Kevin. He doesnt’ have another guy in the backcourt trying to get to the cup like he is.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And just for fun
Comparison of Brooks, Evans, Kevin and Beno.
Supports your position regarding Beno and Kevin. Kevin also had a high usage 25.3% and Beno’s assist% 24.1% was much more PG like.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 1, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Well Brooks is a pretty darn good 3P shooter too
Led the league in threes made this year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Better than Kevin Martin was by a significant amount as well.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah
I don’t know what was up with Kevin’s 3 point shot this year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Agreed.
I disagree that Wall is a better shooter then Turner, in many ways Wall and Tyreke are alike. Great at finishing/getting to the rim but crappy outside shooters. However I do agree that Evans and Wall being 6’4~6’6 would be a huge matchup issue for other teams. Though I have noticed towards the end of the season other teams were putting their small foward on Tyreke and putting the SG on Nocioni, which is why I think Westphal but Nocioni in the starting line up to begin with. He knew Nocioni could back down other teams SG , that or make them defend Tyreke with their PG/SG. Thats 1 reason why I think Green will be effective playing Small Foward alongside with Tyreke. At 6’10 Most SG wont be able to guard green . PS Hopefully Nocioni is traded during the off-season.
by ridingthebench on May 2, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I voted center
and by center I mean a big guy who will make opposing players think twice about entering the paint.
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
Yeah
I’m thinking Favors can play Center too. He’s about the same size as Dwight is, and when you factor in his length and athleticism as well, that might even be his best position since he can take advantage on offense. Now Favors has a lot of work to do if he wants to become as strong as Dwight has.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I like Cousins
I’m okay with taking Favors, but he needs to put on another 15-20 lbs of muscle to get to where Dwight is
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
Yeah
And it took Dwight a couple years to do that.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Joe Pesci, by definition, would fit.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
Only if he's holding a baseball bat
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
For me, This Draft is not a real mystery unless we fall to 5 or 6.
- - You take Wall
- - You take Turner
- - You take Favors or Cousins (Best “fit” after workouts)
- - You take whoever didn’t go at #3
- - ?
- - ?
More and more, the player I am coveting the most if we aren’t at 1 or 2 is DeMarcus Cousins. When I see Favors play, I see quickness and athleticism. I see fast break finishes and an occassional putback. When I see Cousins play, I see a banger. I see rebounding between three opponents and going back up strong. I see toughness. I see the player that we wish Jon Brockman was…… a complete package down low with more height. When you add in the alleged lobbying by Reke’ for Cousins, I think we should go for it. He’s like 19 or 20 years old and 6’11. Dude might not even be done growing yet.
With that being said, I agree pretty much with what everyone else is thinking about our current frontcourt. Good players but not the answers for the ideal starting lineup.
I’m officially in the “If we don’t get #1 or #2, I want DeMarcus Cousins” camp.
by Nutterball on Apr 30, 2010 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Dude might not even be done growing yet.
That’s a legitimate worry with him if you know what I mean.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Disagree
I like Cousins over Favors. Cousins was a force that nobody had an answer for.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe in college
But in the NBA, he’s going to learn that he’s not the biggest and he’ll have to develop more fundamentals. Favors = a young Duncan, Cousins = a young D-Howard. You’re not going to go wrong with either one, except if the rumors about Cousins are true (him being immature.) Still, ridiculous upside to either one….
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Whoa, don't know about young Duncan
Favors could be a young Amare Stoudemire, a young Tyrus Thomas, or a young Stromile Swift. I’m not seeing Duncan.
We need defensive rebounding too
and i’m not sure that is a strong point of Favors yet. It is more so for Counsins, no?
Favors is good at rebounding and defense
Not so good at offense yet, but he was in a crappy system.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yeah I'm not seeing Duncan at all
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
agreed
I am not seeing a whole lot of fundamentals when I watch Favors.
That being said, if it weren’t for vague “character concerns,” I would be totally in the Cousins camp. I like to see production in college and he was the most productive player last year statistically. He also was the best big man in the SEC since Shaq. He could be a beast down low (which would be such a nice change after years of Vlade and Spencer).
Agreed
I think Cousins has the bigger upside of the two, but again insert “bigger” joke. Favors is the safer pick I think.
by TheRockSays on Apr 30, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
In Geoff's Head
PG & SG-Solidified: I feel our backcourt is close to be solidified barring that Tyreke and Beno remain the same or perform better next year. The back up back court of Francisco is decent. It can be improve, but that’s not the biggest need.
SF-Questionable: Our players: Donte, Omri, or Andres are not starters yet. They are perfect back-up SF for now, until one of them proves to be a started. One of them could actually be a nice trade piece.
PF-Satisfied: Carl is a nice fit in this position, but his size raises eyebrows.
C-Need: JT and Spencer would be perfect rotation guys for the PF and the C position. We need to address the starting center position, or use JT or Specer (not both) as a trade piece top acquire a center.
Trade pieces: Andres, Omri, Green, JT or Spencer, Francisco. These pieces are perfect back-ups positions at this point in time until they prove other wise. I say use them at bait to acquire a starting center or a starting SF/back-up G.
Thought?
I would be very surprised to see the kings trade omri...
he is cheap and a publicist’s dream. He has too much marketing value.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
by SactoRyan on Apr 30, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is a very good point.
Need to fill those seats at Arco.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Thought?
I think that you have lurked long enough, and you need to post your thoughts more often.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think we will have a good shot at him.
My crystal ball tells me he is going to go 4th, because people are going to be nervous about him. Kings have a very good chance of getting fourth pick or better. I have been known to be wrong, but that is my thinking at this point.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Maybe Memphis will pick ahead of us again, so we won't have to worry about them taking our guy
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Because they're stupid, you see
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We can only hope that they will be stupid again.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
words of wisdom from former President Bush
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Apr 30, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They're working hard to put food on their family!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I never get tired of it.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The second he said it
Pete Townsend emerged in my head,,,with the circular guitar stroke power chord ringing out…thinking did he just quote the Who?
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
That thought came to mind also.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
My prediction at this juncture
If the Kings get the #1 pick Petrie will choose Wall. Anything else and it’s going to be Greg Monroe.
I agree that if the Kings get the #1 pick it will be Wall.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
So cynical already?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Depends on how you look at it
I actually think Monroe is going to be really good.
I just think he screams Petrie big to me. He does everything offensively and Petrie has never worried too much about bigs playing defense or rebounding. We shall see.
I could also see a plausible case for Cousins.
I'm still trying to figure out what's a Petrie big
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Petrie Center Questions...
Is he tall? Slow? Out of shape by NBA standards? Have a jump shot?
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Jump shot, passing, offensive-minded
Rebounding, defense an afterthought.
Every big drafted, traded for, or signed with the intention of having a major role has fit that criteria going back 10 years.
Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Sean May, Mikki Moore, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas, Darius Songaila, Divac, Webber… even Keon Clark could hit a jumper.
The only exceptions I can think of are Greg Ostertag and Scot Pollard, who was signed as a place-holder bargain pickup and ended up working out.
Brian Grant
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Best mistake Petrie ever made
I don't see what's wrong with giving Bobby a little experience before he starts to practise law.
I'd argue that some of those guys held their own in rebounds, namely Webber and K9 (when we acquired him)
but it’s probably not really a debate worth having. You’re right that Petrie likes his bigs to be offensively skilled, but don’t forget that he hasn’t had many top 5 picks to work with. How many elite defenders or rebounders did he pass on to grab Spencer or JT? Would he have taken Noah over Spencer if he was available? I think the context is important when trying to project what Petrie will do in this draft.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
In other words, I think it's obvious that Petrie values offense more than defense
but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt for now that he’ll still take who he thinks is the best available player when all strengths and weaknesses are taken into consideration.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt Petrie takes Monroe at all.
If he’s going for “Man among Boys” again, I think he’d take Cousins.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Good point
sort of how I figured last year Petrie would fall head-over-heels for Curry due to his impressive offensive skills (ditto for Rubio, actually), but after “Pointguardapalooza” Petrie (and Jerry, etc.) made it clear that they were more impressed with ’Reke’s physical dominance and defensive potential than anything else.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
As much as I want Favors, I think the only way we get him is if we land 4th again. I’m thinking Petrie takes Cousins over him.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Whats your opinion on Favors?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I'm not quite sure
On the one hand you look at him physically and he’s capable of some crazy stuff. On the other hand he doesn’t really hustle, has an extremely limited offensive game, and is not that tall. It would have been helpful to see how Blake Griffin did this year because I see Favors as kind of a not-as-hustling Griffin.
Not so fast
There are still some big question marks with Cousins. Lets see what kind of shape he shows up in and what kind of attitude he has during workouts. I think its difficult to gain a reputation as immature under Calipari, unless you really really earned it.
by TheRockSays on Apr 30, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Monroe is underrated
I bet he moves up most mock drafts in the next month. I don’t think the drop off from Favors and Cousins to Monroe is that big. He is offensively skilled, a good rebounder and a decent shot blocker. He has a bad reputation for lacking energy or taking plays off, but Cousins only played 20 mins a game and took his fair share of breaks as well.
by TheRockSays on Apr 30, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
We are in a position where anyone we draft in the top 6 should be a stud
Honestly I feel if Cousins didn’t have weight & attitude issues he would be contending for the #1 spot. I don’t really care about his temper. I do care if he is seen by the people around him to be a hard worker & have the will to win. This is more important to me. Kobe is a punk IMO but his drive & will to win makes him great.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Apr 30, 2010 10:35 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Interior Defense
I don’t know if the draft is the best place to go looking for it, since conventional wisdom says that players get better at defense as they gain experience, but we need it badly.
IMHO
The kings should be more concerned with immediate impact than positions in the draft. It doesn’t seem to me like the Kings want another project at the center or power forward position.
Part of why many of us are picking Evans and Turner as two and three is because they are set to make an impact on this team right away, while a lot of the big men in this draft are down, in part, because a project center will put this team further behind in rebuilding.
I think interrior defense is what we need, but I agree that the draft isn’t the best place for a team to get it.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Damn, Evans is re-entering the draft? Does he want ANOTHER ROY Award!?!
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
You know I meant Favors...
but you also probably know that I am a complete idiot.
Either way, Evans for ROY in 2011 sounds good to me.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Yeah...
Giving you a hard time.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted center, only because I couldn't pick Best Player Available
If you can get Wall or Turner, you do it. If you can’t, get a backstop.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Three Types Of Needs
No. 1 Player Types:
- “The Other Star” – The Kings need at least one more star to go with Tyreke Evans. His skills and game should compliment Evans’ game (& vice-versa). He could be the #2 option, or Reke could be the #2 but we need that 1-2 punch to close out games.
- A streaky scoring guard/wing off the bench (like Peja before he was a starter or Bobby Jackson between ‘01-’04)
- Physical, high-energy hustle defender/rebounder at forward.
No. 2 Need By Position:
- Center – Hawes’ inconsistency and weaknesses would be tolerable as a reserve
- Shooting Guard – Udrih had the bounce-back year but I’d like to see someone more athletic and better on defense.
- Point Guard (backup) – Someone who can take responsibility for the offense when Tyreke is on the bench.
- Forward – That hustler from #1, should be versatile on defense and not a liability on offense. Donte Greene may already be on his way to filling this role.
No. 3 Needed Skills:
- Interior Defense
- Defensive Rebounding
- 3-Point Shooting
- Perimeter Defense
- Ballhandling
by Kevin Conroy on Apr 30, 2010 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
I like the way you break it down,
but I’m not sure I see the need for your second bullet under number 1. Right now, it seems like both Donté and Omri are likely to be streaky wing scorers off the bench. We hope one or both of them end up as more than that (dependable starters who excel as defenders and present matchup problems to opponents—particularly é), but what they seem to be now is streaky wing scorers off the bench.
I’d replace that second bullet with a defensive-minded stopper on the wing, which Donté may someday become, but if he doesn’t we’ll need to find elsewhere.
Under Needed Player Types:
I wouldn’t mind adding an annoying defense-first SG/SF off the bench. An inexpensive player who can be called upon to hassle scorers and try to upset game plans. Someone who can shoot but isn’t expected to contribute much on offense. A poor man’s doug christie, if you will.
Watching the Suns play this week, I really saw this in the way Grant Hill took Andre Miller out of the blazers offense. I would actually say that Noce could fill this roll, but I don’t think he would accept the idea of not being a shoot-first offensive minded player.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Nocioni
The other difference between him and Hill is conditioning. Hill has been able to remain competitive and rejuvenate his career because he’s always kept himself in immaculate shape, regardless of the complications with his ankle. With Nocioni, he’s never looked like a guy who spends a lot of time on conditioning in the offseason and last year he really took a dive when he fell out of the rotation.
by Kevin Conroy on Apr 30, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Rejuvenate his career?
This was Hill’s second season.
And Nocioni always appears to be in good shape to me, he’s just a guy that’s been as advertised – meaning a streaky shooter who always plays hard. The fact that he’s not overly athletic doesn’t say anything about his conditioning. It just means he doesn’t have much upside.
Ultimately, Nocioni is what he is – and the team knows what they have in him. That’s why his playtime dwindled, not questions on his conditioning IMO.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I think we all can agree that GP will take the BPA.
But the question was what we as fans perceived as the team’s greatest need. That need is talent, obviously, but as far as position, it’s center.
While I personally would take Wall, Cousins, Turner, Favors (in that order), I would love to land any of the four, based on their talent and upside. If Wall is a once-every-decade PG, then you take him. The worst case scenario is he and Reke don’t mesh well together. You cross that bridge if and when it ever comes. I know Reke needs the ball in his hands quite a bit, but if those two guys could buy into a true team concept, then it would be a helluva combo. If things didn’t go so well, then maybe you gotta ship one of them out. But, you know you’re gonna get something really good in return anyhow. Sure, I’d be a little nervous of the fit drafting Wall. Like I pointed out, Reke likes the ball in his hands, there could be concerns about Wall stealing some of his thunder, etc. But, at the end of the day, you take a phenom if you have the chance.
Strictly speaking from a positional stand point, I think center is the biggest need…pun intended. If we end up getting Wall or Turner, that’s great. I think JT plays decently enough at center with Landry at PF. Center is a role JT would only get better at, and Hawes is a helluva guy to be able to bring off the bench in your big man rotation. Many of you might disagree with my assessment of JT starting over Hawes, but I think JT has been the better big man this past season and will continue to grow and develop as a player (as will Hawes, sure, but at this point I prefer JT). Thus, if we take a non-big, JT and Landry are an adequate front court to go with a ridiculous back court of Evans and (Wall/Turner).
The opposite could also be true. For instance, I think the back court combo of Evans and Beno worked rather well. I’d be happy with that backcourt going forward. In this scenario, where we draft a big man (like Cousins), then you have a really good front court with a pretty damn good back court. I think Cousins won’t have the immediate impact that Evans had as a rookie, but his size and athleticism alone will make him a force. He was a man amongst boys in college. This situation yields the potential to bring a skilled, athletic big off the bench. Of course, I’m referring to JT, and in this role, it’s not a stretch of the imagination to say that JT could very well earn a sixth-man award at some point in the future.
However, this does present the “problem” of having too many bigs and not enough playing time. How would Hawes accept a permanent bench role? Especially if he came off the bench after JT? In this scenario, I would anticipate a trade. Which, would probably work out really nicely for the Kings, considering you would have a young, skilled big man on the trading block….oh and cap space, assuming we don’t acquire a high-dollar free agent this summer.
That makes for a pretty nice situation that could immediately turn this franchise into a contender.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I’m pretty damn excited about next year already, not even knowing yet which pick we’ll have.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted "Center" and what we need is a big defensive presence down the block.
But if we go #1 or #2, I’d take Wall/Turner hands down.
What the Kings need is
The best player available. Picking for need is exactly how Memphis ends up with Hasheem Thabeet.
Shoot he wasn't even really a need with how Gasol turned out.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
But...
…You can’t teach height!
(cringing).
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Apr 30, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Over 75% currently voting center
Spencer, I don’t think this was the mandate that you were looking for.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Spencer's a center?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
If Spencer is looking for a man date, maybe Peaches would be game just to try to make 'Reke jealous.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Apr 30, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
"i’ll tell you what. you should take a class in economics. a lost is a lost. it is bad investment no matter how you turn it which ever way. pure and simple. it is call common sense and no class can teach you that." -John Q. Public
Grant looks kind of uptight...
… c’mon Grant, what’s up with the nervous smile? Spencer let you spend the night, that’s a good sign about what happened last night – right?
by Kevin Conroy on Apr 30, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yikes!
That makes a horse’s head look like child’s play.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 30, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I voted Center
We need a dominant big man like Favors or Cousins who can take over a basketball game with his rebounding, scoring and shot blocking. We need some toughness down low, mentally and physically but I don’t know that we will get that right away with any pick. However, if we get the 1st pick you gotta grab Wall, no questions about it. I really hope we get a top 4 pick because the top 4 (Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins) seem to have seperated themselves from the rest in terms of talent.
Off topic, but
Has any team ever drafted two ROY’s in a row?
by UCIrvine kings fan on Apr 30, 2010 1:56 PM PDT reply actions
Nevermind, I just googled it.
It hasn’t been done since 1977/78 for those interested.
by UCIrvine kings fan on Apr 30, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
1970 Portland took somebody by the name of Petrie at guard
and followed it up in 1971 with a PF/Center named Wicks
The following year Buffalo took a Center named McAdoo and followed up in 73 with a guard.
That’s two teams taking a guard and Center and ended up with back to back ROY’s.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sounds like a blueprint!
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 30, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
My Take
In terms of need – A big bodied defensive presence who could score the ball inside is a big part of this teams weakness right now. A goalie at the rim on defense, and a clean-up man on offense who doesn’t need the ball to be effective.
In terms of position – Center. Kinda goes hand in hand.
I think Cousins has the potential to be the best player in this draft, but would be understandably hesitant if I were Petrie due to the knock on his reported attitude problem (who argues with coach Cal!?) and occasional lackadaisical effort. Should this kid show up hungry and motivated, he’s going to “kind of a big deal.”
Wall is going to be a good pg, but he has big shoes to fill after last year’s pg extravaganza, and I just don’t see it…yet.
Favors is the other guy I think could be a long standing, quality big. Definitely not a bad pick. He plays hard and has solid fundamentals, especially defensively.
I think any of these three would be worth whatever pick we could take them at. Anything else might be worth trading down, especially with someone like the Grizzlies, Clippers or Pacers for one of their big men…
Or we could just AHHHHhHHHHhHhHhHhh……Pre-Offseason-Draft-BRAIN OVERLOAD
(cue explosion…)
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Top needs
1) Monster
We need a new monster. We let the Kraken loose and Nessie needs a new playmate. We need the biggest, baddest MoFo around. Somebody who can lurk in the paint and chomp, see #2, on any who dare enter…
2) Toughness
We are the new Kings and nothing like past whiners and sissified weaklings. We are the guys that take a concussion and come back for more. We are the bad ass dudes that will chew their opponent’s elbows off. Even if we lose teeth.
3) NBA ready
We need a man and not some boy who is not grown. Upside is all well and good, but we need somebody ready to ball now. We need somebody who can play D and shut down their guy. We need somebody who has both talent, athleticism, and a clue
by MustangMBS on Apr 30, 2010 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
So you want Cousins.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Help up front.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
^pookey's most concise post ever^
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 30, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't win if I do.....can't win if I don't....
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Poor Pookey Pooh Bear
:-(
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 30, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah poor poor me.
Shed a tear for me will ya?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
T_T
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 30, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to clarify
John Wall is a better player than Evan Turner. But, if the Kings have the opportunity, they should draft Turner over anyone else. If the Kings draft Wall, they lose Reke’s position dominance because he would have to switch to 2-guard. Also, Wall’s style of play is very similar to Reke’s, meaning they both need to have the ball and be the decision maker to be effective. Evan Turner is a pretty good shooter and has a game that would complement Reke (like Beno). Evan Turner can also play small-forward, which is great because we could start Beno and Turner while we watch Donte and Casspi develop off the bench. Reke/Beno/Turner sounds like it would work a lot better than Wall/Reke/Casspi or Donte. In terms of big men, the Kings biggest need is a defensive-minded, big bruising center who will block shots. Jason already works well as a starting center, but he is mostly an offensive player, and isn’t an effective shot blocker. But the problem with drating a big-man in this year’s draft is that the top projected picks (i.e. Cousins or Favors) are also offensive minded and, while they do rebound, they also do not block many shots. That’s why, given the circumstances and our top six pick, my top 6 picks for the Kings would be 1. Evan Turner, 2. John Wall, 3. DeMarcus Cousins, 4. Derreck Favors, 5. Cole Aldridge, 6. Wesley Johnson
by White Brocklate on Apr 30, 2010 4:04 PM PDT reply actions
you do not draft cole aldridge with a top 6 pick.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
All of our SF's are better 3pt shooters than Turner, and the pro 3pt line isn't the same as college
Turner also isn’t as good a defender at guard as Wall. So, yes Turner might be able to start at the 2 with Evans at the 1, but Evans at the 2 and Wall at the 1 is a far better combination both offensively and defensively. And I doubt that Turner can beat out Omri or Donte for the starting SF spot. He’s just not as good a deep shooter nor is he anywhere as athletic as them.
And, I’m not sure where you get the idea that Cousins and Favor can’t block shots. And, Favor’s offense is not that great.
Most importantly, Evans would be better at the 2 than Turner, and Wall would be better at PG than Evans. And, finally, there is nothing that Evans does now that he couldn’t do at the 2.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This
" there is nothing that Evans does now that he couldn’t do at the 2"
Evans was the most effective with Beno on the floor this year, he also happens to be another PG. Playing off the ball a little more will also equate to less opportunities to get hurt driving the lane. Longevity of health for the season and his career as a whole has undeniable benefits.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Apr 30, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Like last years' PGpalooza...would love to see....
Centerpalooza…..
Parakhouski, Raduljica, Cousins, Aldrich, Zoubek, Whiteside…
If Spencer showed up to this workout…man…he could end up looking good or real bad….
by getPGwithbounce on Apr 30, 2010 5:39 PM PDT reply actions
Am I forgetting anybody?
Larry Sanders….
And another thing….2011 is looking like a “small” draft so I hope Favors is available 1st round, or Petrie thinks Whiteside has what it takes to meet his potential.
by getPGwithbounce on Apr 30, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted Center
But only because play-by-play announcer wasn’t included in the poll.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 30, 2010 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 11 recs
Well well well, the million dollar question for the kings right now. The answer is any poistion besides pg and pf. If you’re talking about the draft and a top 2 pick, then Evan turner is the obvious choice. They don’t need to focus on any one position but instead look for an impact player at any position besides the 1 and 4. I’d like to see Evan turner with the kings; the ag position cannot be overlooked. If you haven’t noticed, teams are just switching their point guard over to guard Beno udrih and leaving their sg to guard evans. With a bigger sg, such as turner or Joe Johnson, that is not as easy, and in return it makes Evans more effective at the point and the whole team more effective as well. Obviosly the glaring need is for a grittier center position player. Cousins is not that guy. He looks like he is a mini Andrew bynum. The kings, for the time being would be better off leaving Thompson and landry in the frontcourt. Now, for free agency, I’ve a got a feeling that the kings are going to pursue Shannon brown during this offseason. They probably will try to pursue a frontcourt player as well depending on what they do with brockman and may. I figure they will keep brockman and let may go. As for frontcourt free agents well have to see who the kings look at, but they will probably be very active in this draft as well. Look for draft day trades and maybe the re-exploration of an emeka okafor deal (one they should have pulled the trigger on earlier in the season) involving players such as nocioni, and maybe Garcia. They will also likely draft a frontcourt player in the second round if one is nt picked ip on the first round.
Cousins is not that guy. He looks like he is a mini Andrew bynum. The kings, for the time being would be better off leaving Thompson and landry in the frontcourt. Now, for free agency …
i dunno, i would think technically a mini bynum would be better than leaving Thompson and Landry in the frontcourt
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
I've seen quite a few comments
suggesting that Omri will be no more than a streaky shooter off the bench, and a valuable trade asset.
Although I agree with the latter, i don’t agree with the former. Omri had an outstanding rookie season, taking into account the diificulities of adapting to the NBA after conming from abroad, and handling all the attention with him being the first Israeli in the NBA. Yes, he hit the rookie wall pretty hard, but conditioning is easy to fix. How about the potential he has shown, and not just flashes, but for longer periods?
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on May 1, 2010 7:55 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Omri had a good rookie season, I wouldn't call it outstanding.
He had some outstanding performances, but those only made up a portion of an entire season.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think if you look at the number he was picked at
and the fact that he was a foreign player who had to make much more adjustments than US players, it was outstanding, and it bodes very well for the future.
Look at some other foreign players, and their first seasons here:
Omri: 10.3 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 1.2 APG .446 FG%
Ginobili: 7.6 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 2..0 APG, .438 FG%
Scola: 10.3 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 1.3 APG, .515 FG%
Batum: 5.4 PPG, 2.8 RPG, .9 APG, .446 FG%
Diaw: 4.5 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 2,4 APG, .447 %
Nowitzki: 8.2 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.0 APG, .405 %
Bargnani: 11.6 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 0.8 APG, .427 %
Peja: 8.4 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 1.5 APG, .378 %
Turkoglu: 5.3 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 0.9 APG, .412 %.
I may have missed some, and excluded a guy like Yao. Still, not too shabby.
Only Scola has a clear edge on him, and he came to the NBA as a mature, seasoned player.
Many players made a big jump their second or third season, some took even a bit longer. I’m not comparing Omri to Dirk, but I think he could be a 17 PPG, 6 RPG, 3 APG player, and play some decent defense.
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on May 1, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good question, Chen
now added, the minutes:
Omri: 25.1 mpg, 10.3 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 1.2 APG .446 FG%
Ginobili: 20.7 mpg 7.6 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 2..0 APG, .438 FG%
Scola: 24.7 mpg, 10.3 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 1.3 APG, .515 FG%
Batum: 18.4 mpg, 5.4 PPG, 2.8 RPG, .9 APG, .446 FG%
Diaw: 25.2 mpg, 4.5 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 2,4 APG, .447 %
Nowitzki: 20.4 mpg, 8.2 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.0 APG, .405 %
Bargnani: 25.1 mpg, 11.6 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 0.8 APG, .427 %
Peja: 21.4 mpg, 8.4 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 1.5 APG, .378 %
Turkoglu: 16.8 mpg, 5.3 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 0.9 APG, .412 %.
So only Batum and Turkoglu played substantial less minutes in their rookie year. For a better comparison:
- this year, Batum played 24.8 mpg, with 10.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.2 apg, 519 fg%.
- in his second season, Turkoglu played 24.6 mpg, with 10.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, .422 fg% (.368 3fg%).
It was suggested somewhere that Omri should fashion his career after Hedo’s, and by the look of it, Omri’s rookie year stats for scoring, rebounding, fg% and 3fg% were equal or better than Hedo’s second year stats. Hedo only beats Omri in assist (2.0 to 1.2).
Dunking Dutchman
Hedo's a point forward, though he probably didnt become that till a bit later.
Thanks for the info, Looks like he had a pretty damn good season compared to others.
Yes, in all honesty
I do not see Omri becoming the passer that Hedo is. But he could become a decent passer, and I think he is a bit more versatile offensively.
One thing I really hope is that Omri works to improve his defense. He tries, but he still lacks some skills.
Dunking Dutchman
I am comparing him to his current rookie class.
If you are going to say he had an outstanding rookie season, you need to compare him with the other 2009-2010 rookies. When you do that, he had a good, but not outstanding year.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Reply fail - intentended for RikSmits
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Where is it written
that I “need to compare him with the other rookies”? Never heard of that rule. :-)
I get your point, but I explicitly factored in his specific adjustment problems, which most of the other rookies did not have, and also the fact that he was a late first round pick. That would already make a skewed comparison with for instance James Harden, a lottery pick.
Dunking Dutchman
Forget about that little b*tch Omri
I read an article in some European Magazine that interviewed Casspi after the season. I quote , Omri said he’s “ready for better things and a bigger team”. Basically the article was about Casspi wanting to leave Sacramento and based off his body language he’s been saying that all year. Talking back to the Coaches as a ROOKIE! Making idiotic drives to the basket, complaining every time he gets a foul or THINKS he should get a foul. HEY OMRI HERES AN IDEA.. Stop bitching and play some basketball? I say trade him or send Omri to the D-League.
Chapu4you is back!
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 2, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah you must be right
ridingthebench is a perfectly suitable alter ego for a chapuforyou.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
The D-League doesn't have better hummus
I think the Kings should keep him.
by betweentheeyes on May 2, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow -
Take out of context much?
The article was posted here in Fanshots awhile back, and is not nearly as inflammatory as you attest.
And 1 – Ship one of the top 12 rookies this year to the D-League? Moe, Larry, the cheese! Moe, Larry, the cheese!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I guess Chapu is still bitter that he is not getting PT
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
the coreect facts
Hey, im from Israel and I read that article, they ask him what his plans for the futures and he said that he would like to keep playing for the kings, but the reporter insist and asking him what if he will be transferred to some “bigger” team, and for that he answered that he think that he will be o.k with that. I remember that I read that article and I know that some one will insist to misinterpretation that. in the bottom line, its all about reporter who wants to make headline.
by chaimk on May 3, 2010 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We know that.
Nobody around here ever thought it was anything otherwise.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And I can promise that I'm A) not Israeli B) not Jewish or C) worried about what happens with Omri other than what he does on the court for the Kings
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
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