Is Jason Thompson a Good Defender?
by Tom Ziller on May 10, 2010 5:25 AM PDT
in Numbers
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PrintA few days ago, we laid out the numbers on the Kings' isolation defense, which is surprisingly good, considering the team's defense as a whole is not. Second-year big man Jason Thompson was among the three surprisingly amazing iso defenders on the team last season. J.T. ranked No. 19 among all isolation defenders last season, holding opponents to 0.66 points per possession.
What about the rest of J.T.'s defense? When Thompson came into the league, he looked like an able defender -- long, strong, high-energy, tough, fairly agile/dexterous. But the team's defense that rookie season was so abominable nothing positive could be gleaned. It improved quite a bit this season on the team level, and with two years of observation and one year of hard play-by-play data (via Synergy), I think we can start making reasonable assessment of J.T.'s defense.
So, what's the verdict? Is Jason Thompson a good defender?
On the year, Thompson had the best unadjusted defensive plus-minus of any regular Kings bigs. (That'd be Spencer Hawes, Carl Landry and Jon Brockman.) The Kings defense was 1.6 points per 100 possessions better with J.T. on the floor than when he was not. As the two highest-minute big men (Thompson and Hawes) rotated between the starting line-up and bench, unadjusted plus-minus is less problematic than it normally would be. That the team would be better defensive with Thompson on the floor isn't surprising.
But Synergy's data lets us go deeper.
So we know about J.T.'s iso defense: it was damn good this season. What about in the post, where he defended 203 plays? Opponets scored 0.9 points per possessions against J.T. there. That's about middle of the pack for the NBA. Opponents shot 47% on J.T. in the post, and he committed a shooting foul on 11% of these plays.
Defending spot-up shots: J.T. is awful, giving up 1.11 points per possession, ranked 319 in the league. Opponents shoot 55% (eFG) against J.T. on spot-ups.
There isn't enough data to draw any sort of conclusions on the other play types, though the limited data suggests he's not bad guarding the pick-and-roll. If we move back to macro, we know he has a positive effect on the team's defensive rebounding: not only is he a good rebounder, but the team rebounds better as a whole when he's on the floor. (This extends beyond his own offering.)
J.T. became a better shotblocker this season. He had 59 blocks his rookie year, and 73 this season in roughly the same number of minutes. His steals and, of course, fouls decreased. He still fouls too much (more than four per 36 minutes) and still isn't a very good shotblocker (2.3% block rate). But progress is progress.
In total, I think we can call J.T. a "not bad" defender. Maybe even "good." Although he's getting challenged in the post and killed on chase-outs, he does enough good things in isolation defense to make up for it. He could certainly stand to improve, like all the Kings. But he's not the biggest problem, that's for sure.
Later this week, for comparison's sake, we'll look at Spencer Hawes.
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That is a not-bad analysis. Maybe even good!
Interesting breakdown, TZ. I assume if we don’t have a shot at Wall or Turner, and Cousins is either gone or determined by GP to have too much “tubby head-case” potential, we’ll end up with a big, likely not a center. That would put most of the minutes at the 5 in JT’s hands, realistically.
Can JT be an above-average NBA center, given that he’d be somewhat undersized?
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
I don't know that he'd be that undersized even
For those that have seen JT in person, you’ll know why. He’s got a huge frame, long arms, and he’s just massive. Plus he’s still very quick. I think Center might be his eventual long term position.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 10, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well said. Rec'd
I have not seen JT in person, but it has been said before, perhaps by you, that he is massive. He does not come across this way on television, but I will take your word for it. He is very quick, which is one of the things that I really liked about him his rookie year on the team. It is an interesting thought to consider him as Center for his eventual position. Although, I was somewhat disappointed in his performance this season, he did show some flashes at the end of the season. Although his foul troubles initially hindered and frustrated him, in the end, learning to deal with that problem may have helped him to be more aware of his body and arms while defending. Becoming a better shot-blocker this season could be the result from changing his foul strategy to a block strategy. Whatever the reason, it was an improvement.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
This-
I have been touting this for a while. The beauty to Thompson is that he can add a whole lot of size if he directed to do so. I know, I know, people will say that he did this last off-season and it slowed him down but I will respond with this- doesn’t Jason Thompson need to slow down a little bit? Players grow into their size. Thompson needs to add bulk to hold his position better in the post and he needs to learn how to play with that bulk. I could see Thompson growing into a more versatile Brendon Haywood without the plus shot blocking. I could see Thompson becoming a Buck Williams or Brian Grant type rebounder/defender with 14-16 point offensive game predicated on grunt work and mid range jump shots.
I really hope that the Kings nurture Thompson during this off-season. I would love for him to watch hundreds of hours of Tim Duncan and Andrew Bynum to learn how to keep the ball up around his shoulders. Not only would this improve his offensive potential but it would also have a secondary effect in his shot blocking ability. Jermaine O’Neil talked a few seasons ago about how he studied footage of Hakeem Olajuwan and how he kept his arms at shoulder height on defense in order to be a more effective shot blocker. The results where amazing- O’Neil averaged around 4 blocks a game.
I know, I’m high on Jason Thompson but I see his potential as a starting quality PF/C on a good team who does the dirty work and can get his numbers without play sets being called for him. He is a perfect compliment to Evans, Beno, Omri, Landry (Turner, Cousins, Divid Lee, CChris Bosh)- all good offensive players. The Kings need more talent but one of the true plus’s to Thompson is his ability to play either the four or five much like how Evans can either be the long term answer at the one or two. Going into this draft, the Kings have so much flexibility because of these two players- Wall or Turner- Cousins or Favors, all four fit because of the ability of both Evans and Thompson to not only play but start at multiple positions long term.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on May 10, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Sorry about typo's- the little guy is driving me nuts today.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
JT is 6'11". That's not undersized. He's not hulking, but like Aykis said, he has a huge frame, and his height is already sufficient for the 5.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on May 10, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, if Aykis said it, why are YOU saying it?
I wish someone would categorize the nature of JT’s frame already.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
It's huge : )
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Well the craftsmanship is absolutely superb, its sturdy, and has good size. Avoids the faux pas of being gilded and instead opts for a more weathered, natural look.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 10, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
Perplexing
To me, it seems like our team defense is worse than our guys as individual defenders. i wouldn’t say we have any defensive studs, but I don’t think we have any huge matadors either. And then I wonder why. Is it the system? Is it guys not understanding their roles within the system? Both?
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Young players learning to play together.
It’s not like the Kings had a team of veterans who had played together for years. The best defensive teams have both great individual defenders and team defenders and that have experience. Look at the Pistons when they won the championship- Billups- arguably the best defensive point guard at that time, Rip Hamilton- serviceable at the two, good team guy, especially in the passing lanes, Prince- great on ball defender and team defender, Rasheed Wallace- considered one of the top man defenders in the game at that time and a very strong shot blocker, Ben Wallace- defensive player of the year, great shot blocker and team defender. The Pistons also brought role players off the bench that complimented the starters.
This was a team comprised mainly of veterans who understood the game. It didn’t hurt that Larry Brown was their coach or that Rick Carlyle was there the year before. Flip Saunders took that same team, pumped up the offense and couldn’t win it all so maybe coaching was a bigger part of the whole picture. Man, that’s a lot of coaches over a small window of time. A scheme can help hide deficiencies but players have to have some defensive acumen for the whole picture to come into focus.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Does team cohesion trump having veterans?
I don’t know that having veterans are as important as team cohesion. There are a lot of veterans out there that don’t defense that well, though the ones who stick around aren’t generally awful. I just think that it is likely that team cohesion trumps having veterans.
Look at OKC, a very young team that is pretty good defensively. They also started the same rotation more than any other team. I guess I am saying, yeah, veteran players help, but it is also the time that players spend working together, i.e. creating team cohesion.
Also, OKC coaching is very defensive oriented. So, it really seems, IMO, to be coaching and team cohesion though necessarily in that order. Those Detroit players were together for a long time and pretty cohesive…. They learned how to defend as a team.
Actually-
Rasheed Wallace was a mid season acquisition the year they won the championship and Tayshaun Price and Mehmet Okur were second year players.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Interesting
They seasoned to really play well together. I thought they were together for a lot longer…
They did have guys like Billups, Wallace and Hamilton who had some reasonable NBA experience in other places.
That probably helped develop the cohesion some.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And Prince was then (and now) a complimentary player.
Okur too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree-
The point was that the Pistons weren’t a cohesive unit because they had spent years together. The Kings need to get these players experience. Playing together and growing together is nice but NBA experience seems to trump all. I guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat (go ahead and post that up Section- I hate cats) so let’s hope that the Kings can keep the core (whoever that is) of this team together so they both play together and gain valuable experience at the same time. Or, let’s trade everybody for good defensive players that have never played together. Or, let’s trade some of the Kings players for other players with lots of experience and who play defense………
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Not perplexing, just the nature of the NBA game.
everyone is good, and the best against the opponents best is no advantage at all. Teams look for an advantage. The movement of the ball and the screens and picks are the misdirection. The real point of it is to get the opponent to switch defenders so that you have your best on their less than best. Everyone is looking for an edge.
Once your opponent is at a disadvantage, it forces him to decide whether to let his man defend one on one or to send help in the form of the double team leaving someone open. This is where the open spot-up shots come into play. When you best has the ball and sees the double coming he knows to feed the ball to the open man, and then the doubler has to brake back to his man. So, pick your poison, give your opponent the advantage in an iso, or double and leave someone open.
The teams with good team defense know their responsibilites and rotate toward the strong side when they double. And force the player with the ball to make the more difficult cross court pass out of the double team or take the contested shot. It’s the art of war, attack counterattack.
I think the real misdirection, is making teams feel that they have to send help. As TZ said in the original post,
About 13% of all opponent plays were isolation plays
so if you have a bad team defense or don’t have the speed to rotate quickly, maybe doubling isn’t the answer. The best option might be to let your man go one on one, and just send everyone crashing the boards in case your opponent misses. The art of war, has many ways to win the many battles.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on May 10, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice points.
I guess the one problem the Kings have is that if JT is in ISO, who is going to crash the boards? And to be fair, Jason Thompson is one of the worst isolation offensive players I have seen. It seems like every time he get’s a mouse in the house, he runs over that player and get’s called for an offensive foul.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Most of our bigs don't know how to take advantage of the mismatch, but your right.
Although, since JT wasn’t required to put the ball on the floor and create as a Center in College, I’m willing to give him a little leaway, while trying to develop his PF game. This was the area where I felt he needed the most work. He always had the form to be a good short to midrange jumpshooter. As a Center, I never thought he had the length or leaping ability to go up and take the ball away from others, so I always felt PF would be his best position.
If he can put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket and finish with either hand, he’ll be that big man we’ve been looking for since Weber left.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The left hand....
I pray he learns how to use it but let’s be honest, it’s not like he is trying to get better with it for rec league. I think one of the hardest things to do in the NBA is develop an inept hand- whether dribbling or scoring because it’s not just that you have to get better with it, you have to get NBA level good at it which just seems like such an impossible task.
I don’t see a poor mans Chris Webber but I see a very functional player. This Kings team is going to be so much different than the past ones because of Tyreke Evans’s make-up that is like starting over as a Kings fan. We are no longer looking for the next Vlade or Bibby or Peja, we need the next Charles Oakley, Horace Grant, Scottie Pippin. In a sense, the Kings should be looking for Evans’ wing man and then a bunch of defenders, rebounders and perimeter shooters. Dare I say, an Eastern Conference feel.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
No I don't see any Weber in his game,
Weber had great hands and would take it right to the backet with one hand and no one could stop him. JT almost entirely goes two handed and still gets it blocked.
Eastern conference feel is an interesting perspective. I like the image of Tyreke as Wade with a dominant defensive rebounder rather than a wing man. But a bunch of defenders, rebounders and perimeter shooters would fill out the bill very nicely.
I think you’ve come up a very good topic for the period after the lottery. “What type of team should the Kings be developing?” or “Can a Eastern Conference style team win in the West?” Sounds like there could be some very interesting discussions there.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think you are right about the topics of discussion and it's nice that we are back on speaking terms after the Beasley showdown.
I really want to focus on this type of discussion- what we have, what they will become, in depth look at basketball sabermetrics as opposed to the stuff that has come across the table lately. I kind of feel like an asshole but things have gotten a little out of control in the fanpost section and I prefer to stick with the here and now.
I really don’t feel like the Kings are that far away and I think the western powerhouses are on the decline in a big way. Amaré seems to be the lynch pin in this whole situation (Dirk could jump ship as well but Dallas has a lot of other weapons and may even be better off at this point). If Amaré goes east then I see a completely different landscape next year that is ripe for the taking. If the Kings can add two players, not just one- by any means possible, FA/pick or luck into the #1 and trade down player/pick then I think the Kings can be back in the conversation. If some how Boozer, Amaré and Gay go on the move then I like the Kings chances to improve their position even more next year.
As far as JT, there are always players that can only jump off of two feet and they suffer unless they are dominant, aggressive players. I remember when the Kings took Brian Grant and he was a two foot jumper and Michael Smith was a major one foot jumper. Smith’s ability to rebound and fly in from different angles really complemented Grant and his more controlled box out, body on a man game. As a volleyball player, I found myself getting away from the one foot jump and it really hampered my hoops game. You just can’t adjust in the air off of two feet like you can off of one- basically you become a vertical jumper and not a vertical/horizontal (Michael Jordan) jumper if that makes any sense. I think one of the reasons both Grant and JT quickly lost the Karl Malone comparison is do to this difference in their game. You knew Malone was coming off of one foot because he led with a knee to the chest where both Grant and JT are easier to block because they have to load up to get off the ground, allowing time for defenders to move in.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Some of my most heated discussions were with my dad,
you can still respect someone even when your yelling at each other because both people are passionate. I hold no ill will, and never thought you would either.
As far as the West goes, none of this years playoff teams will fall far next year. And, Houston with a returning Yao, and the Clips with a returning Griffin, a lottery pick, and hugh cap space should be on the move up. It will be very hard to make the playoffs in the West next season.
Now, who in the West will the Kings most resemble next season, Suns, Portland or Utah? That question might be determined by the Lottery.
I’ve heard JR mention JT needing to leap on one leg, and that’s fine on offense. My main concern is having a dominant defensive rebounder who battles under the rim for position. Than goes up and takes the ball out of the air. That’s the part I can’t see JT ever being competent at doing. What we see now is tip-ins off the offensive glass, but no coming down with the ball and going up strong for the dunk. Your volleyball example is great. That’s the way I see JT also. A guy who’s going to tip the ball up and try to chase it down, rather than a guy who’s going to go up and takes it away from the opponent.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
In his defense, JT has had very little help.
I think Thompson has the ability to be a top tier rebounder if he can get another competent rebounder next to him. Thompson is never going to be a guy who flies in and hammers down a put back but he is a big body who when he has position can get up off the floor quickly. As long as he has position, we have seen Thompson be very good at not only grabbing rebounds but tipping balls to teammates. The problem that I see is that his teammate in the post very rarely even make a show for a rebound so their men stack up to box Thompson out. In this scenario, Thompson’s wide upper body actually act as a slight disadvantage because he is now try to fight through to many bodies with too much mass. It’s like a guy wearing a puffy jacket trying to get to the front row of a Cyprus Hill concert.
If Thompson was already in low post position then it would be difficult to push him out and he would definitely be a more effective rebounder, The problem with this notion is that Thompson is not a great low post threat and his jumper is way ahead of his interior game. Add to this that Evans and Landry both need space in the paint to work so Thompson is setting perimeter picks and camping in the 15-18 foot range. Basically,Thompson is the lone rebounder and he is forced to stand too far from the basket to effectively rebound on the offensive end of the court.
In my opinion, Thompson is the right guy for this situation, he just needs slightly better players around him or he needs the current players to grow. I have made the assertion that Thompson is on pace to be a great #2 big because I believe that a true #1 big can score in the post, hit open jumpers, rebound and an elite big will also add some shot blocking. Landry can do some of this but his lack of size and deficiencies as a rebounder hamper more than just himself. Hawes gambles too much both as an offensive and defensive player. What Thompson needs is a player like a younger Rasheed Wallace that allowed Ben Wallace to flourish or a KG that allows Perkins to be the player he is. Does anyone believe that ANdrew Bynum would be as good as he is if Pau Gasol wasn’t playing along side him?
Hopefully the Kings can get that player this off season but who knows, they may land Evan Turner or Johnson or Aminu and not be able to address this situation. These are the reasons I tout Chris Bosh and David Lee as answers for the Kings. I can even go Cousins or Favors but they will take way longer than an Evan Turner to develop. I’ll even take Boozer, Amaré or worse case scenario Okafor because these guys at least have to be accounted for on the glass.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on May 10, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reke'd
“It’s like a guy wearing a puffy jacket trying to get to the front row of a Cyprus Hill concert.”
This quote is too hawesome!
I guess we have a different definition of dominant defensive rebounder
to me that person doesn’t need anyone to help, that’s why you call him dominant. Certainly, it’s good to have someone to seal off the other teams 2nd big, but Camby doesn’t have anyone helping him on either the Clips or the Blazers. I guess I can’t get past the image of JT driving to the rim and scoring on a dunk off of a one legged leap. He’s my starting PF once he can create off the dribble, and that’s how I see it.
I don’t think Boozer is the answer, and Amare or Bosh is probably going to Miami. If it’s Bosh, I’d guess Amare stays with the Suns, especially if they go to the Western Conference Finals or further.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
yes, Boozer to Miami has been pencilled in all season
and Miami has to , needs to, sign another star to keep Wade – it is a promise they have made to him. PHX is in a squeeze (like ATL with JoJo but different) and they must committ to Amar’e or they are agreeing to a rebuild.
by betweentheeyes on May 11, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, Boozer has been mentioned because he lives there,
But Wade is looking for more. They wouldn’t need to clear max space unless they’re going after Bosh or Amare. Both made $17M last year and max this year will be similar. Boozer made $12M and isn’t getting $17M.
Because of the tax benefits in Fla. vs, Canada, Bosh would save millions by going to Miami.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
They still have to pay Wade
they might be able to swing Wade, Boozer and Joe Johnson – both near Max players, I could also see them going after David Lee.
by betweentheeyes on May 11, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Under the current CBA, max is 30% of the salary cap
which is rumored to be $56M, so except for the current teams, no team can pay a free agent more than the max or 105% of their previous salary which ever is higher. JJ made $15M so he’ll probably get the max from someone. But, Wade is going to have to settle for somewhere near $18-20M. That’s $35-37M for the two. So, yes, they should have about $12M to sign Lee or Boozer. But, Amare and Bosh are going to cost the same a JJ, and I’d rather have one of them if it’s going to cost me the max.
Personally, I wouldn’t pay 90% of my salary cap on 3 players. Those 3 players aren’t going to make up the deficit created by the scrubs everything they go to the bench. And, throw out the entire season if one gets hurt.
Without O’Neal they have no height, so I believe Boozer isn’t an option. To me it’s Amare or Bosh. Then start to rebuild on the cheap. Bring back your best role players and get the most you can for Beasley.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
That isn't going to keep Wade in Miami most likely.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What would it take? And, where else would he go?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Chicago? New York possibly.
Depends on how much Wade wants his money.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Chicago is tailor made for D Wade
They have a decent enough front court with Noah and Gibson, Rose at the 1, Dent at the 3 and then Wade to to do everything, particularly be a leader, which has been the biggest hole in the Bulls game plan. The Bulls are out of excuses with Skiles and VDN gone. They need a splash, they have the cash.
NYK maybe – who do the S&T to get him the money? Why move to a worse team? I don’t see NYK even with another star, like Bosh and his is not very D’Antoni-esque.(so it will probablly happen)
by betweentheeyes on May 13, 2010 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
heh
I took a self-imposed timeout after the Beasley thing – I realized I was erring to the side of dickishness on about 99% of my responses. It wasn’t just the Beasley issue, I think the remnants of all the Curry-Evans stuff was there too.
So, my apologies to anyone I treated poorly in those discussions (most notably pookeyguru).
On topic, I’m not sure I agree with your take on the Western Conference – reason being, there may be some rust on the Spurs and Mavs, but you’ve still got young teams like Houston and Memphis that appear to be ready to make a move. It’s still going to take 50 wins to make the playoffs for a few seasons IMO. This Kings team needs two, maybe three more impact players to get into the conversation…
I've got squirrels in my pants!
by otis29 on May 11, 2010 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No apology needed Otis.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Spurs have very little left in the tank.
And, I’m not worried about Yao who hasn’t played in what seems like 2 years. Also, if the Grizz don’t pay Rudy Gay then they will fall by the wayside, same goes for the Suns and Amaré. Utah might be able to survive a Carlos Boozer exit but they are one of the few teams prepared for such an event with Milsap and the Knicks pick.
Wade isn’t going anywhere and the most likely destinations for most of the big FA’s are eastern conference teams like Miami, New York, Chicago and maybe even New Jersey. This is one of the reasons I want to see the Kings chase a big in FA. I just see an open door. Of the current western conference playoff teams, the Lakers and Nuggets look like they will hold up for another few years, Oklahoma and Portland are coming on, and Utah should be able to stay afloat but the rest are a crap shoot.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
If the King don't get a big in the 1st round, I won't mind Haywood.
Who knows, Cuban might not want to match any offers after paying thru the nose last season only to get knocked out in the 1st round again. So, he might be available for between 8-10 mil per.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Interesting...
So, spot up shooting is where he gets killed, defensively, and it seems like he would have to defend against that more as a PF and not as a C…
Perhaps playing him at C masks some of his weaknesses defensively and puts him in a better position for rebounding which he does well. That way Landry can defend against the spot up shooters, which he does, I think, better…
Agreed.
And then we draft Favors and play him with Spencer off the bench so that he can mask Hawes rebounding deficiency.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 10, 2010 7:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Good points Mustang
I think JT did well near the end of the season playing alongside Landry. Pitted against Centers, he was relatively quicker and more mobile, especially on offense and on the boards. And this may also help him defensively, as you pointed out.
I’m guessing some Centers will have such a height/weight advantage that they’ll simply shoot over him, or abuse their pounds to establish position against him on the low block, but I’m not sure there are many big and strong centers who could exploit JT in such a way.
Dunking Dutchman
by RikSmits on May 10, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except for the ones that exploit
everyone with their height/weight. Not much you can do against them. That’s like trying to find a PG that can keep up with a healthy Chris Paul.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on May 10, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point Tom.
You can’t expect JT to stop Gasol or Bynum for a full 48, no one can do that. JT did do a great job against Gasol in isolation but when Pau drags him out and shoots over the top, JT’s weakness is exposed.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
To finish this thought-
JT has a comfort zone which needs to be extended. I really don’t blame him for not drawing out away from the paint because lord knows, there was no one left in there to fight for a rebound in his absence.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Which raises a point I have often dwelled upon...
The are huge. We need to be big to compete with them or else it really won’t work out all that well.
I just don’t know how Phoenix is going to compete. If they can speed up the game and run them into the ground it might work… Otherwise, size is going to kill them. I don’t want to be in the same situation as them.
So, yeah we need big’uns.
Sure they are-
But basketball, like all other sports seem to follow a pattern. You are good and then your team gets old and you aren’t good anymore. If the Lakers don’t fix issues at the point and develop their younger talent then eventually, like every other dynasty, they will eventually find there way back to the bottom of the league. I will point to the extension that Kobe Bryant just signed as the beginning of the end for this team. By locking up Kobe to a ridiculous extension, the Lakers have limited their ability to improve their future through free agency. Factor in that the new CBA might force the Lakers to move one of their high priced players in order to fit under a new hard cap.
The Kings are a few years away from competing at the highest level and I don’t really fear the Lakers long term unless they find someone to give them another Pau Gasol for an over priced veteran.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
We can hope.
Kobe’s efficiency is already sliding downward. He is fighting to stay healthy and, yeah, LA made a dumb move IMO.
JT is not small...
The dude is 6’11", so almost 7’ and wide. He has a big body, broad shoulders, and deep chest.
Also, he likes the contact down low. It seems like a lot of his fouls were getting too physical and I kind of like having that problem. Just nurture it into a Truck Robinson JT and we are in a much better place as a team.
A lot of his problems were about poor arm position.
JT needs to learn how to keep his arms straight up, to not reach in and to not waste his fouls on stupid reactionary grabs. I have brought this up countless times, I know, but Thompson played at a lower level college where size trumped skill. He was able to get away with a lot because he was so much bigger and agile than his opponents. Thompson has been in the league long enough for this excuse to be invalid but he still has the bad habits, both on offense and defense that you see from players who are not used to playing against higher level talent. It’s really frustrating to see bad fundamentals hold back a player like this but you can always hope that one of these summers, someone will coach these flaws out of his game. Hands straight up and ball at chest level would fix a large percentage of JT’s flaws.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
You can coach arm positioning
You can’t dramatically alter body types. Sure, lifting helps, but bone structure and muscle types generally can’t be changed. JT can have a presence down low and be coached into being a better and more dominant players who fouls less and better.
Thompson has the frame-
He can easily bulk up 15-20 lbs. He has a huge frame and already decent muscle definition. If the Kings think that bulk will help him then he can add it. I would prefer strength training and leverage lessons but if JT played in the NFL, they would have him over 300 lbs in an off-season.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
It will be interesting to see what happens
I think they plan to move him to C. Jerry was touting his “more natural position” at C the last part of the season and that is a pretty good bellweather of where the team is going.
I agree he could easily bulk up. He needs to bulk and then tone down. Bulking and strength training aren’t mutually exclusive, but it seemed like he needs some better training. He bulked up last off-season, but lost some mobility. He can get bulk and keep mobility with the right training.
Better training and a lot of fundemental work.
I know that Thompson will be spending time with Coachie this summer at Princeton so hopefully he has a check list to go through. I remember hearing Coachie talk about how difficult it is to develop players in season. Once the season starts, there is just no time with the travel and player recovery to really spend a lot of time on fundamentals. The good news is that Thompson is a hard worker. The bad news is he has a lot of stuff to work on that should have been fixed in H.S., AAU and college ball. Maybe Coachie has some regression therapy tool- maybe Jason Thompson needs to be birthed out of a giant basketball to become new again (there’s another photoshop opportunity Section- Yoda using the force to extract JT out of the stem of a basketball).
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
It's a natural part of life...
too bad Sam Cassell got his head stuck and I don’t even want to talk about the Popeye Jones debacle…can you say “Baby Ruuuuth”.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
This is encouraging news for JT.
It is amazing to me what these stats can pull out about a player’s defensive skills.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
A lot of people, including myself, are high on JT due to his end of the year turn around
and our hope that he continues to make similar strides. The numbers justify that hope to an extent, here illustrated on defense. I expect great things from JT next year.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
I expected great things from his this year.
But, we all know how that turned out.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
We did see great things-
But we also saw major stretches of bad. If you excuse the middle of the season and focus on the beginning and end of the season then the future looks pretty bright for Thompson. Of course it doesn’t work that way but if it did then I think a lot more people would be on the JT bandwagon.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I haven't ruled JT out by any stretch.
I am waiting to see what he does next season. Unfortunately, I did witness the middle of the season and that is hard to erase from my mind.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think a consistant starting 5 would've been a big help
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on May 10, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
I have argued this point as well- I just don’t want Section to hit me with the beating a dead horse gif. : )
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
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by section214 on May 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Seconded
Since I’m the new guy, I have horse disposing duties and its not fun. Especially because section only gives us a wooden cane to do it with.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Couldn't hurt. It is always easier when you know what to expect.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I'm cautiously optimistic that JT works it out in the 10-11 season
For the first time he seemed to know what he had to work on including the mental element. He had a nice April averaging 14/10 and looked dominant against the Clips, 22/15 and in the last game of the season against Houston, 19/16. He clearly had his mojo working actually hitting a three and ending the season sounding like the confident young man who started it. I liked jj’s comment about an additional 20 lbs slowing him down a bit and while I don’t know what the recipe is, if, in his 3rd year the game starts to slow down for him he is clearly able to raise his season averages of 12.5/8.5 to maybe something like 14/10 while reducing his foul average per game by.5 down to 3.2 per game the hate he experienced this season will evaporate and the fans will love him again.
I’m really getting a lot out of TZ’s posts where he uses the Synergy stats to illuminate his point. I hope JT improving his defensive game is as simple as raising his arms and watching hours of film of a generation’s best defensive bigs with the understanding that simple doesn’t mean it’s easy.
Overall I am surprised that JT’s defense is a little better than Spence’s, overall, I would have thought that Spencer was statistically a better defender than JT.
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This is good news
I think the reason the Kings defense was so bad last year was because the team was focusing on making the individuals better at defense. I think this year Westphal is going to be a lot more focused on getting the team defense working together. Westphal did a pretty darn good job of doing what he said he would do for this season, which was to improve rebounding, three point shooting defense and individual defense.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 10, 2010 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I wonder how well Omri did
in three point shooting defense.
Apparently, he was the Kings best defender, and we know he did well in iso defense and he’s not bad at rebounding.
Dunking Dutchman
I've always seen JT's main problems on defense is not using his feet
He doesn’t use his feet very well to get him in position, and in turn ends up reaching. If that means he’s a “not bad” defender, than so be it I guess.
I just feel JT’s a bit overrated on defense at this point myself.
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No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think he's a bad defender
He’s just a “dumb” defender at this point. He has the potential to a good defender if he worked on it.
T Zilly- great build up to the draft conversation piece.
I can’t wait for the Hawes comparison. It still makes no sense why Thompson and Hawes can’t seem to fit together and maybe the defensive breakdown will shed some light on the defensive breakdown.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I’m still of the opinion that bigs take a long, long time to develop. The Kings ended up with Webber in part due too high of expectations too early. For the most part I don’t I think bigs start to turn the corner until their forth season and have been plenty that didn’t gain game consistency until their 6th season.
I think its a positive that Thompson has already shown flashes and is effective in some areas on the floor.
This is actually not a bad thing either.
If Thompson shows flashes but doesn’t quite hit his full potential this season, it will assist the Kings when they try to extend him, especially with a new CBA looming. Hawes has already F-ed himself in this regards so it will be interesting to see what the Kings do when both players are up for negotiations at the same time next summer.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
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