Trouble for Arena Land Swap?
by Tom Ziller on May 16, 2010 1:00 PM PDT
in Arena
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PrintTony Bizjak of the Sacramento Bee has a story in today's paper noting a potentially problematic finding in the preliminary review of the feasibility of moving the state fairgrounds to the ARCO Arena site. The problem: the ARCO property is a lot smaller than the current Cal Expo. Some would argue that might not matter because the new location may not have a horse racing track and because the current set-up is really, really, sprawling.
While Cal Expo officials tell Bizjak this isn't a deal-breaker, and that they are looking into potential fixes (such as condensing the blueprint and paying adjacent land), it's still worrisome. Part of that is a being a pessimistic Kings fan. Every arena proposal falls apart. Hell, almost every positive Kings experience falls apart in a particularly heart-rending way. The other part is more specific to this issue: the "moving Cal Expo to Natomas" part has always been the weakest link of the land swap deal. The Maloofs want to build a new gym downtown, and will compromise to make it happen. The developer wants to facilitate the deal, save the Sacramento Kings, and make a lot of money turning Cal Expo into houses, businesses and office buildings.
But Cal Expo just wanted funding for a new fairgrounds. It didn't want to move. The relocation is probably more a bug in this plan than a feature. It's an "if we have to move to get new fairgrounds, then we have to move." Such an attitude, understandable as it may be, is more susceptible to dampening enthusiasm. And never mind public pressure from anti-Maloof politicians, NIMBY property owners (in Natomas and the Cal Expo area) and the usual anti-growth forces of Sacramento. This will be a challenge, obviously, and this type of thing could keep popping up. Let's hope the deal survives, assuming it pencils out.
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Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 16, 2010 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Rosanna Danna - There is always something!
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Sounds like more posturing to me.
But what do I know? Just another snotty King County resident…..
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How much land do you need to deep fry Twinkies and Oreos?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 16, 2010 1:42 PM PDT reply actions 10 recs
A lot. They attract day people.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 16, 2010 3:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Day Man
Fighter of the Night Man
Champion of the Sun
You’re a master of karate and friendship…for everyone
by Citadel 29 on May 16, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 15 recs
Sweet, I had that song on loop in my head for weeks on end, and I suspect the loop is about to begin again...
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 17, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
This is the biggest obstacle in the whole deal
Its really the only one in my mind…but I thought the Bee article provided good news.There is 100 acres around the Arena that could be bought (even if overpaid for). In a previous article , the state fair dude (that’s his actual name) said one of his reservations was that the Arco sight was buried back off off main streets and not easily visible. This 100 acres would give them frontage on Del Paso Truxel and Arena, which would alleviate his concerns. The acerage would also put them only 100 acres less than the current Fair Grounds, and , like the article said this could be made up for partially by going verticle.
I now think that purchase of those 100 acres is the only major obstacle.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Nail on the head-
This is posturing but it is a semi-power play to get that extra acreage. These guys need to keep their mouths shut and hammer this thing out. Any negative vibe in this situation could cause it to fall apart like a house of cards. Cal Expo is a shit hole and these local putzes need to understand that they are about to get a whole lot of something for a whole lot of nothing. There was talk about Arnold selling off the Cal Expo property to help with the budget. I’m wondering if there can’t be some jockeying here by the Maloofs/NBA/Governor to put the fear of God in these guys. The board only has power if they have property to deal with, if that leverage is removed or at least rumored to be then this deal will go a lot smoother.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I wonder...
I wonder if the developers are able to lower their expected profits by enough to pay for the additional acreage.
Where does the money for the 100-acres come from, if not from them?
Could be a deal breaker.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Annex that shit!
I can’t imagine that the land in Natomas is worth anything at this point in time with the moratorium on building still in place. The city should be able to find another land swap if they need to bolster the fair property but I still believe that all of this noise is small town conjecture that will be swept under when the ball starts rolling forward. This all just feels a stab in the dark to try and make the Cal Expo people feel important and a leveraging point to extract every last nickel out of the sale of the fair grounds.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Take by Eminant Domain
is what you’re meaning.
Natomas is already part of the City, which is what Annex would mean.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 17, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, my bad- eminant domain.
The city has some leverage here because of the building moratorium. The surrounding land is worthless if they can’t build on it and I have a tough time believing that the property in question isn’t already bank owned with the economy/real estate market in the tank. Even if the land isn’t bank owned, it has to be so far upside down that the owners would probably love for the city to confiscate it.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
They have to pay for it
but eminant domain would prevent the owners from trying to hold them hostage. Very justifiable too with the usage being the State Fair etc..
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 17, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually part of Natomas is part of Sac City....part of it's not.
But you’re correct nonetheless.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
yep.
keep in mind the guy in charge of Cal Expo’s board right now is in real estate. so he’s going to be pushing hard to get the property because that’s what he does for a living.
/covering ears
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on May 16, 2010 1:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
besides the State Fair what else does the fairgrounds want to do?
It would make more sense to have the Auto Show, the Dog Show, the Boat Show at the new downtown facility. Will they still sell grounds to a water park?
It is a negotiating point I believe it is solvable. In other words, this is a green issue. Money.
Is anyone else wondering what's going to happen to the Kings practice facility?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I imagine
that there may ultimately be another facility at another location at some point.
The L*kers pracitce in El Segundo at the Toyota Center, about 15 miles from Staples, I believe. The Bulls practice in Deerfield, which is almost 30 miles away from the United Center.
If the swap goes through, the Kings will probably be able to utilze the practice facility until it is torn down. It was built in 2000, so they will have gotten about 15 years or so out of it, and I would imagine that the floor and much of the equiment would be transferable.
Great question. I had not even considered it.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
If Arco stays, it will probably become the fair head quarters IMO.
I assume that the practice facility will be part of the stadium plan, along with managing offices and such. There is also a ton of land hiding around the downtown/West Sac area that could be purchased and used to fit this bill. A 2 million dollar practice facility costs about 5 million less than one season of Nocioni. I think Gavin keeps that kind of money in his giant snake skin wallet, even in this economy.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
The reason I ask is because the Maloof's reportedly spent 15 million on the sucker
So, that’s more money they’ll have to spend to have a facility. And, the Warriors practice elsewhere in Oakland as well. (Not at Oracle.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if the new practice facility ends up somewhere near Raley Field.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
B.S.
Unless the entire building is made of gold and marble then they are full of it. It looks like a nice place but its not that big. If this is the case then the Palms cost like $900,000,000,000 to build.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
I've heard that figure cited in the past.
I don’t wish to argue on whatever number it was. Doesn’t matter to me. I heard 15 million and said: Really? The Maloof’s got taken…..
But I agree with you. It’s not an expensive facility, and that’s even more true when you consider they built it on land they already had.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
$9.1 million,
at least according to this. I can believe that, if that is the “furnished” price. I’ve been through there a couple of times, and the equipment and creature comforts are pretty state of the art.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I've seen the outside a few times myself. I can believe it cost around 10 million for the building and furnishing and all that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or 9.1 million.
Good find 214.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The link includes a photo tour
The best thing about the facility is that a lot of the stuff is oversized to accomodate the NBA athlete. The workout equipment is a little bit bigger. The toilets sit a little higher. You see this stuff and your feel like you’re in 4th grade again.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yeah I can believe that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wow, I read through all of this and I'm stil surprised at the pricing.
Two things- first, the Maloofs built this during the height of construction growth in Sac. A building like this would cost much less to build today then a decade ago. Secondly, the Maloofs also had “Casino Vision” when building this practice facility. It would be tough to walk away from such an investment but the Maloofs aren’t the same people they were a decade ago. Money no longer grows on trees in their back yard. This whole facility could have been done a different way with leased office furniture and exercise equipment. A more frugal group could build this same facility now, using both new, leased and existing materials for way less.
I don’t blame these guys for going all out. They built this after the Warriors constructed their facility which got rave reviews from NBA players and coaches alike. The current facility was more keeping up with the Jone’s and was also designed for both the Kings and the Monarchs which is no longer an issue.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Quite honestly
I think they got as much out of it as everyone else did.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's so stupid to be Anti-Growth...
What kind of ignorant bastards actually believe they can prevent the city from growing!?! People reproduce. Mostly people who shouldn’t, but…
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
They can't keep the city from growing...
but they can make it a crappy place for everyone. Misery loves company, these are people who gripe just to gripe.
Deeper than the stare of a man that lost it all, wider than the outstretched arms of the law, wider than the eyes of a newborn child, we're committed, to go the extra mile
by prowseinthehouse on May 16, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I read this article this morning and thought, "Here we go again."
This is a fairly complex swap, so there any number of things that can trip it up.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
The Fair was like one long corridor
Yea, I’m going to miss walking 6 miles from one end to the other and back. Having the exhibits condensed in a smaller area makes sense to me.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
If the existing Arco hosts Motorcross and Monstertrucks in the dirt...
Can they not fit a damn horse racing track in there when needed?
only if they are monsterhorses
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 16, 2010 3:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
In other articles on the deal, the Expo Board didnt' seem like they cared if they lost the racetrack
as long as they recover the lost revenue somehow (a relatively minor revenue source). In some ways the racetrack is probably more trouble than it’s worth anyways, it’s not like it’s packed on a daily basis, even when there’s thoroughbreds there for the fair. Also, the report allows for 130 acres for parking at the new fairgrounds. Really? What decade is this? Build a couple of giant parking structures and call it a day.
This report is a bit of posturing (the firm that did the study was hired by the State), and it’s a bit of the Sac Bee making a mountain out of a molehill. No sweat guys, we good.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 16, 2010 3:42 PM PDT reply actions
It's only posturing until they force another kind of deal to be made.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am willing to through in Grant Napier and Jim Grey in the deal.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
Hahahahaha
Aren’t we all.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I thought the whole racetrack at Cal Expo was on life support every other year?
It seems like every other year they talk about maybe the horses not coming back. They should decide if horse racing is viable, and if it isn’t, then forget about making a new track.
If it fits..
If it fits into the current Arco, then this makes even more sense. Put it up only when needed and when it isn’t needed, don’t have it at all.
Seriously?
Have you ever been to a track used for horse racing? Fit it inside Arco?
by cabz on May 16, 2010 11:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
i dunno if it is a good thing to admit to having a great deal of knowledge about the horse races
your bookie might find you
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 17, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
oh great, somebody gets tired of negotiating - and they play the race card
by betweentheeyes on May 17, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
LOL!
well done sir! I was actually combing over my comment thinking “what, i didn’t say he was a racist, what the heck is he talking about?”
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 17, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I said the first thing until I looked at the comment. LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I said that too^
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
classic
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 17, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
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