Mock Draft Summary: The Day After
by Tom Ziller on May 19, 2010 4:58 AM PDT
in NBA Draft
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PrintESPN's Chad Ford has Minnesota taking Wesley Johnson at No. 4, and the Kings taking DeMarcus Cousins at No. 5.
[A]t No. 5, he would be a great pick for the Kings, giving them toughness, rebounding and a legitimate, low-post scorer. Teaming him with Carl Landry, Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes would give Sacramento a very good front line.
Scott Schroeder's Ridiculous Upside mock has Cousins off the board, and the Kings taking Johnson.
Though the Kings most wanted a legitimate big man to pair with former lottery picks Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes, the best player available won't be a terrible option - especially when the small forward spot was the least productive position for Sactown last season. Johnson can shoot (42% from beyond the arc last season), rebound and get up and down the floor and seemingly play defense (he averaged just under two steals and two blocks per game).
DraftExpress has the Kings taking Al-Farouq Aminu, despite Wes being on the board. Jonathan Givony also tweeted that he'd be surprised if the Wolves took Wes over Cousins because of the progress Corey Brewer made this season, and that Omri Casspi is a "clearcut backup." For the record, Casspi outperformed Brewer in every category but steals and assists this season, and is two years younger, and is half the price. (Brewer did score a bit more than Casspi, but that was because of extra shots. Casspi shot better than Brewer.)
My mock at FanHouse has the Wolves picking up Wes, and the Kings nabbing Cousins.
UPDATE: Ian Thomsen's first mock for SI.com is live. He has the Kings taking Aminu over Wes.
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I just have a feeling
That Cousins won’t be there at 5. If Wall, Favors, Cousins and Turner are off the board by 5, then what?
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Al. Farouq. Aminu.
:)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
BPA FTW
Aminu has the look of a future beast, and the Kings can wait. Unless Cousin’s is there – and I too think he will not be there – I think Aminu is the way to go.
I'd take Aminu over Cousins.
Am i crazy? Yes.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I have no problem with either
Cousins does slot slightly better for “need”, but J-Smoove V.2.0? Yes please!
Ya think hes josh smith 2.0?
I dunno if I see that..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Just going off the DE "upside"
But I do remember how incredibly raw Smith was in his first few years, but with ridiculous athleticism, so I can see the parallels.
I went there, and saw the comparison as best case too.
I guess their the same height, ten pounds difference. I wonder if Aminu is as long as jsmoove. I guess we ll see in chicago.
Id be ok with it, But I wonder if Wes johnson can play our 2 spot. He can shoot, and could be a pretty sweet pick..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I'd ignore the best cases. I really would.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
reminds me of...
iguodala when he first came into the league.
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
That's interesting.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
LOL
Iguodala averaged 4.9 assists his sophmore year in college and was a ‘point forward’. Aminu can’t pass or handle the ball (1.4 assists)
in terms of...
athleticsm and body type. and neither could shoot nor handle (speaking of iguodala when he first came into the league).
the assists per game may have something to do with the type of offense iguodala was in. he was not a point forward in college. not even close.
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
immature...
but actually kinda funny.
online dialogue with a ten year old is clearly useless. sigh…
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Or your just wrong
comparing Aminu to Iggy makes no sense at all. Just cause they’re both athletic? Iggy was no where near as “raw”, and actually had guard skills.
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
shizzo...
iggy didn’t have much guard skills either and he was also extremely raw. i watched a ton of his uofa games and to assume that he was a point forward is clearly off base.
i may indeed be wrong and you may be as well.
the point is, if you disagree with a perspective, explain why. don’t just state useless facts (assist averages without any context—e.g., differences between uofa’s offense vs. wake’s), then generalize that someone is clearly different from another player because of those facts, and then follow up it with a useless photo that adds nothing to the dialogue.
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I surely hope you're 100% right
A 6’8" Iggy would be freeekin awesome!!
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
if aminu develops...
and becomes anything like iggy, it would most definitely be awesome. i think aminu, like iggy is closer to 6’6 (w/o shoes), however.
but since petrie is the gm, we’re probably going to draft monroe (big, skilled, not an uber athlete). then sactown royalty will probably have a cow (like we have in years past) and then a few months afterwards we will probably sing the praises of petrie when monroe becomes much better than we expected. :)
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Favorite line from the DE review of Aminu:
“It was easy to notice how well Aminu responds to coaching, with his eyes always dead set on Hopla and Leitao when they spoke, absorbing everything while giving 100% for the entire three hours.”
Yeah that's not too bad at all.
The thing is though, Aminu is doing that in a setting where he’s working on his draft stock. The fact that he’s worked well with Dino Gaudino is more encouraging to me.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We all know you are crazy, Pookey. Is that even up for debate?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
In terms of actual crazy, I don't qualify.
In terms of when I say things people don’t want to hear, yes.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Of course you're not actually crazy.
You’re are often outlandish – strikingly out of the ordinary. Perhaps that is a more descriptive term than crazy.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Yes outlandish....eccentric....that is I.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
P.S. Everybody loves you the way you are.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Well not everybody....
Myself is suing me for defamation of the soul. Voices are such primmadonna’s I swear. Don’t ever acquire them.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also, don't look in the mirror.
You’ll get sued by your eyes.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
It happened to me last year.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
You're clearly special elfboy.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's what the doctors told my mom.
and they understood that I had special needs too. I’m so lucky.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
LOL Yeah.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Por favor
May I introduce a proposal that we stop using the term “beast”? It means nothing. It’s hyperbole.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Not sure why
You have a problem with terms that are a different way of saying “very good player,” but since you said please… no.
Definitely not an attack on you
I’ve just noticed it a lot lately. I think we can do better. I know we can do better. I’ve seen the quality of discussion that this group is capable of. Saying someone is a beast doesn’t mean anything. It has implied meanings, but let’s just be more specific.
For example, when you say you think Aminu has the look of a “future beast”, what do you mean? Future All-Star? Future starter? Get specific and the quality of the debates will improve.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
no, it's not necessarily about quality
it’s about style. tenacious, tough, strong on the boards and defense. That’s why I used it about Robin Lopez not too long ago. That and the fact his teammates at Stanford called him “Beast.”
Ah, but therein lies my point
You use it to describe a person’s strength and tenacity. Citadel indicates that it’s a way he calls someone a very good player. It’s an ambiguous term.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
This argument is stupid as hell.
Who cares what descriptive is used. We all have different interpretations of different words. What makes a superstar? What makes a beast? Yadda yadda yadda. Give it a rest. We don’t need the blog police on the use of a word.
There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.
You're absolutely right
Let’s all debate players without knowing what the other person is actually describing. That’s a much better way.
I’m not the blog police, far from it. I’m asking for people to get specific as a basketball fan, nothing more. This time of year we spend a ton of time on player debates. They are very informative, and I learn a lot from the different opinions on players, even when I disagree. When someone says a player is a “beast”, that leaves me wanting to learn more. As you say, we all have different interpretations of words, that is why it is important to clarify.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Then ask for clarification.
You request the stoppage of the word “beast” not for it to be clarified.
Either way I’m done with this. I just think it’s dumb that this is a part of a thread.
edm, I never left. I just don’t feel like dealing with your BS during the offseason.
There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.
You're part of the thread
Too late for it not being dumb
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
And I am with Exhibit
The problem with this board’s usage of the word beast is that it is used so often. If everyone is a beast, it must not be to much of a compliment.
Cole Aldrich. Future All-Star Center for the Sacramento Kings. At the least, the next Joe Klein. Or maybe Bill Wennington.
SammyP is a beast!
I see what you mean.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 19, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hahahaha.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
There will be a SammyP wherever you go. But don't worry, it scared me at first too.
My 2 cents on the topic SammyP.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I have to agree with Exhibit G on this.
If you mean “tenacious, tough, strong on the boards and defense,” then say that. I can get a clear picture of what you mean. When someone says “beast,” then I have no idea what that person means when using the word. I know what I think of, but that may not be the same as what you mean. A number of different qualities cross my mind when I hear the word. It could mean an attitude of aggressiveness, a reference to one’s size, or, as you point out a style of play.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Um, no offense, but I think they meant that mockingly, because that was his favorite comic book hero action figure.
They called Robin ‘Bizzarro.’ So…
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Oh there was definitely some of that
but he also knocked out a couple of Stanford’s backup center Peter Prowitt’s teeth in practice. They meant it for real. Unless you also were good friends with some of the team and know more than I?
Exhibit G Beast Mode ON [OFF]
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 19, 2010 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aminu is a beast?
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
by chenp22 on May 19, 2010 6:44 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Needs more cow Belle.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
by elfboy_ on May 19, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Right now for me
Aminu and Johnson are right on the same level..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Don't we already have a long SF from Syracuse?
it really blows that at the 5th pick, it’s looking like the BPA is going to be a choice between two small forwards. Personally, I like our two small forwards.
Also, i don’t think you can look at Johnson’s defensive stats and think they’ll translate to the NBA due to the D they play at Syracuse.
That's why we take the upside pick (Aminu)
let him develop, and then decide our trade opportunities
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
Yea sucks we didnt get a chance to draft Favors or better.
But we gotta work with what cards we get dealt.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Well, I'm convinced.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm
Hate to disagree PG, but I would rather the Kings took Damion James or Marcus Morris over Aminu. I would even prefer Ed Davis. I think that Aminu is a very good player but I am a bit worried about his low FG% to shots taken and his low assist totals for a small forward. He is very athletic, which is a big plus, but he turns the ball over a LOT and is not a great defender since he has a slight frame to guard big forwards. With all that said though, If the Kings took him, I wouldn’t be too bummed. He should be a solid player.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
I understand.
That concerns me too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'd rather have Johnson more than Aminu
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Me too
Johnson to me is Donte Greene on fast-forward. He reminds me a lot of J. R. Smith physically, but without the attitude. Maybe Jason Richardson. He’s extremely quick off the floor, plays above the rim, and can hit the outside shot.
"You seen my cell phone?" "What’s it look like?" "Like two horses f***ing. It’s a phone, son. It looks like a phone."
by CaliforniaJag on May 21, 2010 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Good.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
here are some examples
The Nets were the worst team in the league, didn’t tank (unless you consider their entire season a tank) and they only had what, a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick? Why? And could fall all the way to 4 like us last year? No thanks.
As for the Kings, why did they have a higher chance of drafting 5th than 3rd, which is where they finished record wise? That doesn’t make sense to me. If anything, they should at least have the highest percent chance to pick where they finished record wise.
As for the league’s tanking paranoia, that’s what it mostly is- paranoia. If it truly became an issue, the league could put their foot in the offending team’s ass as they saw fit.
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Disagree regarding tanking
Tanking is a very real problem, and there have been very real examples of it. It is difficult to prove, but obvious when observed. It’s a legitimate problem.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Then the league thoroughly investigates
And if in their minds you tanked, Stern gets out his piece of garden hose and gets to work. I think a team would think long and hard about tanking if they knew ahead of time that they could lose their 1st round pick and get slapped with a heavy fine if the league decides to punish them for tanking.
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i am not the biggest fan of mind policing
personally i would just prefer a system that doesn’t always reward tanking … like a lottery.
Good luck trying to prove that a team isn’t tanking when they play all their young players extended minutes late in the season because they want “to give the young guys some playing time to see how good they really are.” Unless we have another Kevin McKale writing writing letters expliciting stating he is doing something against the rules then it would be pretty hard to prove.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
How does a lottery not reward tanking?
Unless the lottery gives every non-playoff team an even chance at the top picks, there’s going to be tanking – every team wants that extra whatever % chance to get in the top-3.
Having said that, it would be very hard to prove a team is tanking. And the penalties that would need to be levied to really hurt a team that does tank would need to be rather large. So some obvious proof would be necessary.
There was tanking before (IMO), and there is tanking now (IMO). So just go back to using the inverse record for the draft slots and get rid of the unnecessary sideshow.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
It encourages, but it does not reward
The system encourages tanking, but it has rarely actually rewarded a team for tanking.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
i think it technically rewards it with more ping pong balls
and not only that but it also rewards it with making it so you can only be slotted, at worst, 3 spots worse than your record would indicate.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought he meant
That there are very few instances where teams have tanked to improve their lottery chances. I’m not sure how anyone could really know that.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
What I was going for
Was that the team with the best chances has rarely ended up with the top pick, in recent history.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
but to be honest, i would prefer that
than have every lottery team have equal chance because it would really really scare me if teams in the 11 to 16 spot start tanking with a few months left in the season (or toward the end) because they have an injury and figure they would get bounced right away in the playoffs and they have just as good of odds as anyone else to get the 1st pick
And could you imagine if a #1 slot team somehow got knocked to somewhere like the 8th spot? Especially if it were a small market? The conspiracy nuts would kill the league
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
i said doesn't "always" reward tanking
Unless the lottery gives every non-playoff team an even chance at the top picks, there’s going to be tanking – every team wants that extra whatever % chance to get in the top-3.
yes there still would be tanking. 8th seed teams who are injured leading up to the playoffs and way outmatched would often be better off tanking into the non lottery group. After all, they have just as much chance as anybody else to get the 1st pick.
That might not happen often right at the end of the season but a month away from the playoffs and behind another team by 2 games, i think alot of teams would pull back a little just for the chance at the next Oden, Lebron, or Wall
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure
And I certainly don’t like the idea of giving every team in the lottery an equal shot. But I think it’s just as ridiculous as the current system.
So what is really the drawback to the system of just having the teams draw in inverse order of their record?
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Exactly
So what is really the drawback to the system of just having the teams draw in inverse order of their record?
And as I’ve said elsewhere, if the league suspects tanking, they do an investigation and either punish or not punish as they see fit.
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how the hell are you going to investigate and punish?
What information do you use? Do you use a grand jury? Do you have a hearing? What about appeals? How long would that process take? Who judges? What if a big market team is deemed not tanking but the team that out beat them for that 1st spot is a small market and they are deemed to have tanked? What kind of crazy conspiracy nuts would come out of the woodwork? Also what’s the punishment?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it would be difficult
But David Stern would kind of play by his own rules on this one, I think.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
well i don't want Stern to play by his own rules
this would create so many agent/client conflict issues i don’t even know where to begin. And it would slow everything down. I would think they would have to do the draft a month later in order to gather the type of evidence they need, get the lawyers rallied, get the depositions lined up, deal with appeals … this is crazy.
The only thing you can do that would be quick is have an arbitration hearing and the league owners would have to approve that type of set up. Plus it would likely have to be confidential.
I am not a huge fan of going down this road.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
and this whole process would make the draft we have now seem a heck of alot less complicated for outrider
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
heh
I don’t want to say you are naive, wallywagon. But a system like that would be pretty much business as usual in the NBA. Stern is not the President, he is “El Presidente”…if you know what I mean.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
But a system like that would be pretty much business as usual in the NBA. Stern is not the President, he is "El Presidente"…if you know what I mean.
That doesn’t mean I want him to do the same stuff with the draft that he did with the dress code and suspensions for fighing or leaving the bench. I already am not a huge fan of how Stern has gotten involved with these topics but the draft … man that is a different beast. Could you imagine the panic and crazy roomers about the league trying to engineer the draft? Heck we already have that. And the whole process would be a run around, it would be incredibly hard to prove it.
Now i know what your thinking. “Well the draft as we have it set up now creates that type of paranoia.” Well I think a behind closed door investigation would make it that much worse. I think it would fail to really solve the tanking issue and, on top of that, create a sense that the whole system is a joke only meant to help the teams the league sees fit to help.
I think what we have now will be just as effective with tanking without as much fear mongering as this idea.
I would like to point out that this idea is very different from otis’s No Lottery suggestion, which instead of dealing with the tanking issue it’s goal is to make more “rightful” spots for teams. (Sorry i might just be clarifying that for me so i don’t get mixed up because they are very different. And no I don’t think they would work well together because then we would have a situation that still has tanking AND super paranoia)
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah. And herein is the problem.
David Stern seems to do too many of the things by his own rules. If there is any investigation that should be done, it should be done on how David Stern runs things. Course, we all know that won’t happen.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
League discretion/determination
I don’t mean that as a cop out answer, but that is the answer. The league would have to iron that stuff out, which they could do if so inclined.
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And if history is any indicator
Commissioner Stern would say “F#ck you if you don’t like it”.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
yes a big one
then you would absolutely be rewarding tanking. heck that could even be considered encouraging it.
In the NFL they can do that. There are over 50 players on each team with very specialized positions and a serious attrition rate at many of those positions. In the nba you got 12 and the only difference is Guard, Wing, and Center. You can break it down to five positions but it’s just not the same.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this is where we disagree
I don’t see how there was a bigger possibility of tanking under the old system than the new system. And if two 20 win teams are tanking to get the 1st pick in a draft, you’re still going to have one of the more deserving teams get that first pick – at least, more deserving of a #1 pick than a team with the 4th through 14th worst record in the league.
Tanking would be near impossible to prove. But I think the effect of tanking games on purpose hurts your organization’s reputation, and in this business climate, your attendance.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
I think the effect of tanking games on purpose hurts your organization’s reputation, and in this business climate, your attendance.
I think it also hurts with competing for endorsements (for the league, not the players) and tv viewership.
I just think that, unless every single team was put in the lottery with even chance at the first pick, you are going to have tanking regardless because there will also be a higher value given to certain slots. So long as there is higher value, it’s going to happen.
The NFL I think technically still could have tanking issues, it’s just that alot of the top picks cost a ton (no slot $ there like the NBA), there are alot of busts, and it is such a specialized sport with so many different players doing so many different things that one pick doesn’t mean just as much as the NBA (yeah i know Payton is freaking unbelievable I just think that type of situation is less likely and if it were to happen more often there would be a tanking problem there too).
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
You are getting hung up
On the idea of every team having an even chance. I admitted that I don’t like that idea, but it makes just as much sense (in preventing tanking) as the current system…i.e., none.
The NFL is definitely a different animal. I think many NFL teams are happy to avoid the higher picks.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
i am just saying it wouldn't fix the issue of tanking
it would make team’s spots more “rightful” but it would definitely make tanking worse. If you think “tanking” matters less than the “rightful” spot issue then by all means take the no lottery approach
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
That's where we disagree
I don’t know how the tanking would be worse – in the current system, you just have better teams tanking than under the older system.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
you know tanking might not actually be worse
But i don’t think it would better either. Personally I think it would likely be the same in either situation; however, it is rewarded less with the lottery. Considering that i think the only way teams don’t tank is where every slot has the same value (all 30 teams have the same shot at the top spot) then I think it will always be there. I would just prefer it to not necessarily reward a team is all.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
might be repeating myself
but the “All 30 teams have the same shot at the top spot in a lottery” would fail to address your “reasonable” test because the worst team in the league could realistically get one of the worst picks fairly easily.
Obviously i got a theme going. The Issues are …
Tanking
Fairness
Conspiracy Nutiness
I think the current lottery does a faily good job of addressing all three.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Again
but the "All 30 teams have the same shot at the top spot in a lottery"
That’s not my position. I was referring to all non-playoff teams, and it’s not a system I would favor either.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
i know the "all 30 teams have the same shot at the top spot in the lottery" is not your position
I was really just arguing with myself on that one.
However, I was under the impression that your position was no lottery at all, just slot by record.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
You say tanking is rewarded less
I say it rewards the better teams more than the old system. So it’s really a choice between potentially rewarding the better teams or the worse teams. I think I’d prefer it rewards the worse teams.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Okay sorry for some reason I thought you wanted the NFL style
Technically there are three approaches
There is the “NFL approach” (which i see now I was completely wrong to assume you wanted). It’s just that every team is slotted by record.
There is the “Every Team in the Lottery Approach.”
There is the “Only Non Playoff Team Lottery where every team has a fair shot approach.”
And there is the “Current Approach.”
Personally I am a bigger fan of the Current Approach. I thought you said earlier you thought there should be no lottery at all (like the NFL) and I felt rewarded tanking too much. As for the lottery where everyone out of the playoffs gets a fair shake, I also worry about that resulting in some goofy tanking issues late in the season in regards to teams fighting for playoff spots (i would repeat it but gotta go, sorry)
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
er four approaches, sorry
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The fact that there are going to be some crappy teams any given season doesn't matter huh?
It’s just tanking cuz they lose?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Losing in and of itself
Wouldn’t be enough trigger an investigation.
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Yeah, this makes no sense
To sanction a team, you have to be able to prove they tanked. Easy to observe, difficult to prove. Hence Duncan in a Spurs uni.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
It sure worked for Philly this year.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I think
the lottery does it’s job. They wanted to make sure no one is guaranteed a certain pick if they tank, and it does that. I think the only people who really have issues are fans of teams who have horrible records, and get screwed over (i.e. Kings last year.) But it does it’s job.
I can’t think of another way of making sure “tanking” teams aren’t punished. This is a good way of avoiding it.
i must admit
i absolutely like it
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
You've got to be joking.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
nope i am not
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
That's cool. I was hoping you'd say that.
I, too, think the lottery does what it’s intended to do: Be a lottery. (A novel concept.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If the concept was to prevent tanking
I think it’s a proven failure. If there are other benefits to it, other than keeping the SB Nation sites busy, I’d be glad to hear it.
So consider me not a fan of the concept, although I do like the entertainment aspect of it – well, until we get dropped two to three spots below where our record should have placed us. ;)
I've got squirrels in my pants!
it absolutely has not prevented tanking
But I am fine with a system that doesn’t reward it.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind tanking at all.
Teams only decide to tank, when it becomes apparent that they are not going to make it to the playoffs. Teams and players have pride, so they don’t want to lose. At some point, a team begins to weigh the merits of losing in hopes of getting an advantage in the lottery versus winning for pride. I don’t blame the worst teams for tanking, as they probably would have ended at the bottom anyway. I think the Kings may have tanked at the end. Hey, if that saved us from being in the 6th spot, like the Warriors, then it was worth it. Course, no one is going admit that there was any tanking involved and perhaps they would be right.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Washington won their last game
And everyone around here rejoiced that the Kings got the 3rd best odds for #1. Tanking does nothing for anyone. It’s all about luck. No more or no less.
Teams either get lucky, and that’s the way it should be. There isn’t a better system out there. Do you like this outcome as a Kings fan? No. Then be a Wiz fan or whatever team you like the current result of the lottery for. Otherwise, you’ll have to simply live with it. Or, come up with an entirely new system that trumps the current one.
And, Otis, good luck with that new system. I’ll be happy to offer free input and no charge for snark.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah
So much for ‘just lose.’ At the end of the day it’s a lottery
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Don't mind people being mad that the Kings didn't get lucky.
What I didn’t get is making whole sale changes to a system that did what it’s supposed to do.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not so upset about the Kings this year
I was a bit last season, and it still may bear out that Blake Griffin is the dominant player from the draft.
But New Jersey got hosed this year (IMO) and probably Minny as well.
If the Kings ended up in the #1 slot, I would have been thrilled. Them’s the rules of the game currently.
But I can recognize that AND that it isn’t a fair system.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
What's a fair system? And how do you create one? And when doesn't luck come into play?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Personally Otis
I think you’re bitching just to bitch.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You may be right
I just don’t think you can create a truly fair system, and there will always be tanking. So just go reverse record for everyone, deal with the blatant tanking, and be done with it.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
No see that's it.
That’s why I like this system now. You can tank, or you can play to win. Whoever wins can just say it’s simple luck. That’s all there is to it. Better than teams tanking to get the next John Wall etc etc etc.
All I got on this one.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Gotcha
Ultimately, it’s not a huge deal for me, just an interesting debate.
I think the lottery itself has also become an entertainment “event” in a way, so I don’t think it will be changing. That being the case, I do like the idea (mentioned somewhere in this thread) about maybe slightly increasing the odds for the teams with the very worst records.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
The odds are already high for the top 3 teams. They make up 40% of the odds with everyone else makng up 60%.
But, like most things, it’s all about luck. There isn’t any real rhyme or reason to winning the lottery; just hope.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I actually agree
that the odds should be adjusted slightly. I feel like if one team jumps into the top three draft picks every other year, then it makes it a bit more fair. Having two and sometimes three teams jump in, what seems like every year is pretty crazy..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Emotions run this deal. Not looking at it from an objective perspective.
Sixer fans would be cursing the lottery if they weren’t in the top 3. So would Wiz fans. So, let’s keep that in perspective too.
People want a top pick every year, and it’s totally understandable. Just not likely.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree that it's all about luck
But I don’t agree that it’s the way it should be. Go back to the old system…there was just as much tanking, but the truly bad teams received their rightful spots.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
do bad teams right now not receive their rightful spots?
I dunno, i think the 4th, 5th, and 6th spots for the worst 3 teams in the league isn’t exactly un-rightful (sorry my language skills suck almost as much as my typing today)
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
well then the only thing that would be okay for you is straight up no lottery then
and that to me wouldn’t work in the nba (i actually think David Stern had a long interview about that somewhere)
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
and i would disagree with that idea because in would absolutely reward tanking
but at the same time, yes I understand where you are coming from on it.
It would at least not lend itself to the “big city” conspiracy junk.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
And this is the same system that saw Houston tank it's 2nd half of the season with Ralph Sampson on the roster....
….to get Akeem Olajuwon. That’s why the NBA put in the lottery system ultimately. But, the lottery system (usually—but on a rare exception allows playoff teams to get high picks like Utah) keeps lottery picks away from teams like the Lakers who are winning championships and then picking James Worthy in the draft of the same year. Where’s the fairness in that?
Otis, you haven’t really thought this through. And, you don’t really recognize the implications of what you suggest.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
THAT I take offense to
Well not really. But I have thought this through – I’m not sure you have.
The current system doesn’t prevent tanking. And it tacitly rewards the better teams, who benefit more from the chance of going from an 8th pick to a top 3 pick, than it hurts them from going from 8th to 11th.
The implications of what I suggest are simple. Go reverse record and be done with it. Let Stern handle the blatant tankers.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
The Wizards won 26 games
The Sixers won 27 games. They weren’t exactly awesome in their quest for suckiness.
I understand your points, but I simply don’t agree.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And New Jersey won 12
But yes, I think we will need to agree to disagree on this one.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Nobody deserves the #1 pick cuz they had a bad year.
Unlike the NFL where you have 53 players on a roster, ONE player makes all the difference in the NBA. More than any other sport in the world.
That’s why the lottery is so critical. That’s why you can’t do it from worst record to best record like the MLB/NFL does it. Having the 1st pick is good for a team, but it’s hardly the deal that having the 1st pick in the NBA is.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also Otis
The lottery provides transparency. The NBA only hides the lottery in a room to keep anyone from messing with it. It’s more about security than anything else. Especially with so many issue’s surrounding it. If the NBA did the drawing privately without any NBA teams there, I’d be a lot more worried about it. But, that’s why the lottery is held in front of a single rep from every NBA team.
Now I’m done on this.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
From every team?
Or just the reps from the lottery teams?
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Reps from the lottery teams.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Isn't that really the point though?
See, we are on completely different planes of thought – I think it’s a good thing that one player can make a huge difference for a truly bad team.
And I’m not sure I understand your argument here at all. ONE player makes all the difference in the NBA for whatever team drafts him. I don’t see how saying that makes it any better that this player may go to Washington rather than New Jersey.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
And what I don't see why New Jersey should be rewarded automatically for their bad season.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Now I'm done. Dammit Otis!!!!!
< / shakes fist >
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I smite you!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's....like....you....replaced...my...bone...marrow...you...bastard....
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
or why even have a draft
just have everybody coming out of college a free agent and caveat emptor, baby!
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or why even have a draft
just have everybody coming out of college a free agent and caveat emptor, baby!
Great idea. Can’t see any possible problems being created there.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
my post = sarcasm
or sarchasm as it seems to be around these parts….
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i know
i was joking. i just had to put up your comment in the block quote thing because the thread is so darn tiny and it’s hard to tell what i am responding to. But yeah i was joking with you. Barely made it by the sarchasm.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
If your John Wall
Do you want to go play for the Nets? or would you rather play for whatever team suits you the most. I dont see the bad teams getting any help in this scenario.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
John Wall was said to be pretty thrilled to be going to Washington.
So I think he’s quite happy with that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
John Wall was said to be pretty thrilled
he was going anywhere that wasn’t Minnesota.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yeah and that's pretty reasonable.
Why would Wall really want to go to Minnesota given their situation?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was replying to the notion of saying
Screw the draft, Lets just let em all be free agents..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I think the concept itself was flawed
The current lottery system was in response to Orlando getting Shaq and Penny (via the Webber trade) in back to back years. The goal was both to prevent tanking and to ensure that worse teams had better odds at the best picks.
Oddly enough, the current system encourages tanking compared to the old system in which the odds were more evenly distributed. And, as recent history has shown, it doesn’t help the worst teams get higher picks.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
The best tanking story ever......
…was the Rockets in 1984 who simply managed to snag the NBA’s best record. Consequences? The 1st overall pick and the right to select Hakeem Olajuwon.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Actually his name was Akeem then. For you know it all's.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For me
I wish the lottery was scrapped completely. Since it’s not going to be any time soon, I just wish the mechanics of it made more sense in logic and fairness.
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Logic & Fairness?
To whom?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And this logic & fairness applies to what exactly?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How is the lottery unfair?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Look at the Nets this year or us last year
We were both the worst teams in the league, didn’t tank and we only had a 25% chance to get the #1 and could fall to 4? Why?
or
Looking at this year, how does it make sense that we have a better chance of picking 5th than 3rd?
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We were both the worst teams in the league, didn’t tank and we only had a 25% chance to get the #1 and could fall to 4? Why?
Well it’s not developed to punish tanking just make it work less
Looking at this year, how does it make sense that we have a better chance of picking 5th than 3rd?
because there was a greater chance of 2 of the other 11 teams dropping into the top 3 than none of them
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I hear what you're saying
But in my mind, if you’re the worst team in the league, you should have better than a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick. Just like if you had the 3rd worst record you should have the highest percent chance of picking #3.
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yeah we didn't get the 1st pick last year
but that turned out to be a Godsend. Clips got the 1st pick and got a guy who didn’t even play last year. We got the Rookie of the Year.
Just because someone got the 1st pick doesn’t mean they get a guaranteed gem.
True
But if you are a GM (especially Geoff Petrie), aren’t you better off having more talent to choose from than less?
I've got squirrels in my pants!
yes
but everyone’s acting like we dropped from pick #3 to pick #23. Nets lost 2 spots. Kings lost 2 spots. I don’t think that really warrants a complete changing of the system.
It depends on the draft
If John Wall is the next megastar in the league, 2 spots becomes a big deal doesn’t it?
I've got squirrels in my pants!
it could yes
but if he’s a bust, and whoever they take at #3 is better, than it’s a blessing (like Tyreke was for us last year.) There’s no guarantee that the 1st overall pick is going to be money. It’s not like the actual lotto, where you’re guaranteed a certain amount of money. All you’re guaranteed is that you get to pick first. That’s it.
That's a completely different argument
And I think that’s where the pro-lottery contingent loses me. You can’t just say “well, you can still get a good player”. I think we all agree on that.
Isn’t that also the case if you just go by reverse-record? The Kings had the third worst record in the league, so they get the third pick in the draft. They won’t have the top choice, but they will still get a good player right?
I still haven’t heard a good argument against that system.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Didn't feel any different this morning
But we’re of one mind on this whole lottery thing. I’m definitely with you- scrap it and draft by inverse record order.
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if you're trying
to get the bad teams good players, then yes, that would be the way to go, like the NFL does.
If you’re trying to prevent tanking, then this is the way to do it, in my opinion.
you can guarantee one of three slots in the draft, all next to each other
and if you are one of the better teams you also get at least a shot at 3 of the best slots, although only slightly
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Again
I guess I just don’t understand the WHY of having a better team have a chance at a top-3 pick.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
And I think that’s where the pro-lottery contingent loses me. You can’t just say "well, you can still get a good player". I think we all agree on that.
I actually agree. Nobody is staying you still can’t get a good player.
Isn’t that also the case if you just go by reverse-record? The Kings had the third worst record in the league, so they get the third pick in the draft. They won’t have the top choice, but they will still get a good player right?I still haven’t heard a good argument against that system.
I think that would definitely increase the incentive to tank even more. That’s it.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
There should be a separate playoffs for lottery position.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
So...
You want to reward teams that were already almost in the playoffs?
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Here is a rope,
pull yourself out.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I don't know if the current system encourages tanking
Unless we put every single team (including playoff teams) in the lottery with even odds, you are not going to stop tanking. Somebody will always take the chance.
I think this system generally helps teams that stink but throws in a bit of chance. I like it.
If you were to have all the non lottery teams get even odds, then you will have teams in the 8th spot in the playoffs tanking because “hey we have just as much chance as anyone to get Wall or Oden.”
If you had the NFL draft, well then teams can purposely lose 3 straight years in a row for top picks every year guaranteed.
So yeah, I like what we got now. Just the perfect amount of chance but still giving crap teams like us top 6 picks.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
And to that end it works.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Don't pick Cousins!
Don’t like him or his attitude. He’s bad for a young team
I don’t think he’s big enough and in tight, competitive games, his lack of mental toughness shows… DON’T PICK HIM, GP!
Attitude?
Just because he is big and has a mean face, all of a sudden he is a cancer. Dude was a centerpiece for a NCAA championship contender team as a true freshman, and had one of the highest PERs in the nation. ’Nuff said.
Danny Fortson he is not, give it a rest, people.
I agree
I think there are concerns, but he’s way too talented to pass. he is BY FAR the best player available, if he is available at 5.
I say if any of the guys we all agree are the top 4 guys are not available at 5, you trade down. There is really no difference between 4-5 and 9-10 in this draft.
i am very nervous about the guy
but at number 5 … yikes i dunno.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a tough call. GP will do his homework. And he'll pick the guy he wants.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 19, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i would looooove to be in the room during that inteview
“Have you ever punched a stripper in the face?”
“On the subject of crack, do you think it’s whack?”
“How heavy do you think is too heavy?”
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 19, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
I’d love to hear Spencer’s answers to those questions truthfully.
GP: How do you feel about crackheads on Upper Queen Anne?
Spence: I feel they should be put to death.
GP: Have you ever punched a stripper in the face?
Spence: Does punching a gold digger at UW count?
GP: How heavy do you think is heavy?
Spence: Rebounding 9 times a game in Romar’s system.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 19, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tough spot
I’m not sold on Cousins right now. But I could be easily convinced if Petrie took him.
I’m not sure what Johnson would be giving us that Casspi doesn’t. With improved conditioning and an understanding of how to handle a full NBA season, I don’t think it is unrealistic to expect a full season’s production at the rate Casspi played the first half of last season. Then again, I’m the same guy who says you always take the best player available.
I’m still coming to terms with getting the 5th pick, but right now I’m just in the “screw it, let’s just see who GP picks” camp.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
You're spot on
with regard to Johnson and Casspi:
I’m not sure what Johnson would be giving us that Casspi doesn’t. With improved conditioning and an understanding of how to handle a full NBA season, I don’t think it is unrealistic to expect a full season’s production at the rate Casspi played the first half of last season.Also, Casspi will have less distractions than he had this season, with all the attention he got.
More importantly; you bring in Johnson, it will be hard for Casspi and Greene not to see it as a vote of no confidence, or at leas have them wondering how they will get decent minutes. If you draft Johnson, you are almost forced to trade Casspi, Greene, or Johnson, IMO.
I’d rather have Aminu, at this point in time.
Dunking Dutchman
Wouldnt Aminu be doing the same thing?
I feel like we already have a logjam at the SF. Are we talking Aminu as PF ?
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Donte can play the 4 too.
Donte is a combo F like Aminu and like Omri. Neither guys are 1 position players, so it’s really not all that big of a deal playing them strictly as SF/PF and such.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yea, I dont know.
I mean I get the whole Donte at the 4, But does he thrive there going up against other 4’s in the league?
I dont really feel like were addressing our problems by going with smaller PF’s..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I d rather have an oversized 2, then an undersized 4.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Like LaMarcus Aldridge? Carlos Boozer? Blake Griffin? Amare Stoudemire?
Corey Maggette? (LOL.) Al Jefferson/Kevin Love? Zach Randolph? David West? Tim Duncan (aging Timmy)? Luis Scola? Dirk Nowitzki? Serge Ibaka/Jeff Green? Kenyon Martin?
Yeah I’m good with that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Jeff Green and Corey Maggette.
Mostly Maggs is a joke because he should never played 4. The problem with the Dubs is that Maggs did play a lot of 4. Substitute Biedrins instead and it should be all good Rik.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Im confused.
Why the big list of PF’s ?
85 percent of those guys are bigger than Aminu and Donte.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I thought this was the whole reason we wouldnt want someone like
Beasley. NaPF, NaSF. Yet it seems like were trying to do the same thing with Donte or Aminu, going this route.
Otherwise we just have a whole squad of small forwards..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Aminu is a better rebounder than Beasley is for 1 thing.
For another, Aminu is a better defensive player than Beasley is. And, for the last time, IT’S NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING POSITION CHEN.
Are we clear Mushroom Mushroom? LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This idea of splitting F's into PF & SF is a dumb dichotomy.
You can play 2 F’s together even if they are perceived to be SF’s. Orlando does it just fine (for the most part) with Barnes/Lewis and Turkoglu/Lewis.
It’s more about who you defend than what you’re doing offensively IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I guess Im just thinking about matchups
how do we go against, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom defensively, or some of the other BIG frontlines in the game.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I think JT could match up with Bynum if someone could take Gasol.
And Donte could take Gasol. I’ve seen him do it on a limited basis this past season.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Aminu COULD be a better rebounder.
Beasley was actually a fantastic rebounder in college… shows how much that tells…
Aminu was a fantastic rebounder in a tougher rebounding conference.
Beasley was a fantastic rebounder in a crappy rebounding conference.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ill give you the benifit of the doubt on that one.
Since I dont really want to look into proofs for that assertion, but Im not 100% convinced there was that much of a difference. Rebounding is rebounding is rebounding is rebounding.
Big difference
The quality of rebounders around you directly impacts your ability to get a rebound.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Oh, I agree on that theorem
Im just not sure the difference between the Big 12 and the ACC is that huge.
No it was just a strong rebounding conference.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well in those years yes.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I m obviously not listening very well. LoL
So what would the depth chart look like for our F’s C’s?
JT, Spence
Carl Landry,Donte Green
Aminu Faraqwah , Faraqwahuma?, Casspi
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
JT Spence are the C's
Landry and Greene/Aminu would be the PF’s. Aminu/Greene and Casspi would be the SF’s.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
ITS NOT ABOUT THE POSITION POOKEY
Fell right in on that one..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
mUSHROOM Mushroom!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Uh no.
85% of them aren’t. That’s the image in your head. Donte is 6’11. 85% of those guys are not “bigger” than Donte Greene. Really Duncan, Martin and Nowitzki are the only players bigger & taller than Donte at this point.
Boozer & Randolph are beefier but not necessarily taller. That’s not necessarily going to mean much IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Donte is only 226
Yea he has the height and length, and I think he does a pretty good job at PF. He can stretch the defense make them come out and guard him. I guess I was saying that 85 percent of those guys weigh more. Probably averaging around 245-250. Donte will never be a “Banger” and I dont really feel like Aminu will either. If thats the direction we choose so be it..
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I understand that.
I think Donte will do fine at the 4 because he’s better suited for it weight difference or not.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Donte?
good question. Aminu is a terrific rebounder though.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You see Omri as a combo forward? I see him as more of a swingman. Off the top of my head, it seems like he played way more SG than PF.
That aside, I do like the versatility of Donte, Omri, and Aminu.
Yeah. I do.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Okely dokely.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Screw it man,
Play all 3 at once with Evans at point and Thompson at center.
Positions are overrated.
Welcome to the new apositional NBA, where there is no point guard, forwards are guards, guards are forwards, and there are no centers!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 19, 2010 9:15 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I like it. Well done Ice.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hell yeah, suckaz!
Listen, Evans is our power player. Own it.
Aminu will be best player available at the 5 spot.
Playing that crazy line up, don’t think about who they guard, but who is gonna guard them!
The only thing I ask for out of this upcoming season is that Westphal picks a starting line up to stick to that don’t include Sean May and Desmond Mason, and that he doesn’t juggle these young guys around too much.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 19, 2010 9:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Seems reasonable to me....
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I like it...
Beno / Tyreke / Cisco
Tyreke / Omri / Cisco
Aminu / Omri
Landry / Greene / Aminu
JT / Hawes
Aminu would add much needed rebounding and shotblocking to our frontcourt.
No joke!
Here is how I see it: he is a little young and raw to be a starter this year, barring some unexpected break out. But if he learns role (unlike some) he can be a high energy guy, like Brockman, but better and with a lot more upside.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
And, if he does end up starter material, well,
I am pretty sure there is a market for Landry.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Please do not attempt to justify playing time by appealing to the size of contract. It’s a horrible argument to make.
If you think thats too few minutes to go around, wait til the tired old vet Noc plays 18 per game cause his contract is too big to sit him!!!
LP, you don’t happen to be a Giants fan, do you?
Thats all fine and dandy
Until you play teams in the playoff with more traditional lineups ( like the Fakers) and get killed defensively and on the glass cause you have no one to match up againt the opposing teams bigs
by TTown Kings on May 19, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
wes
i also like johnson but his age is some what a concern for me… and despite his ball handling, can wes play the 2 guard?
aminu for me is interesting but being a hybrid 3/4 has its advantage and disadvantages as well.
right now i would like to concentrate on both of these guys pro’s and con’s. but if somehow cousins falls right on our range then i’d pick him in a second.
by pakyubai on May 19, 2010 6:44 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Dammit
I’m not sold on Cousins, don’t want any more swing guys, and can’t stand the idea of getting a 3,4, or 5 that’s 6’8" or smaller. We have too many undersized guys, and our bigs don’t like muscle work.
Drafting 5th, a guard seems like a really unlikely pick, so with Aminu only 6’8"/210, Monroe not being what anyone would call a, um, breast, Cousins having maturity issues, and Johnson essentially Kevin Martin-sized without the speed, what the hell do you do?
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Draft John Wall.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sean Mayroom Sean Mayroom!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Russel Westbrook
was projected to go around 10-12. He went 4th – and he’s shown he deserved it.
There could be another guard worthy of the 5th pick. Avery Bradley? Eric Bledsoe? A good guard or high upside guard wouldn’t be a bad pick at 5.
Hahahahahahaha
This I heavily doubt.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pookey Ideas
are the only good ideas on this site.
The thought of there POSSIBLY being another good guard, someone worthy of the 5th pick, clearly is deserving of an exaggerated ‘ha’.
My apologies for my thought Pookey.
As you should be.
Carry on.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You need a new joke
Let me help you out:
nbrans is a poopy mcpoopypants!!
nbrans made me cry ten times last night he’s so mean!!
nbrans thinks guys who are one year into their nba careers and who didn’t get much playing time are busts forever so we should make fun of him even though I’m so legendary for my bad predictions people use my quotes in their signatures on RealGM omg how funny would that be you guys???
by nbrans on May 19, 2010 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL Nbrans
Gotta say the poopy mcpoopypants is a classic. I’ll stick with that one.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
YoUr DuM cUz TeAgUe SuKs!
LoLz!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could see this happen
But with Whiteside
by BobTheAutomator on May 19, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Me too.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
by PhutureKings on May 19, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
What? Do you know something any of us don't?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Totally wouldnt surprise me..
/ducks as aykis throws something…
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
I would go ballistic
You don’t even know.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Backs away slowly......
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Things that will annoy me leading up to the draft -
1 – The notion of trading down. There is no historical data that suggests that Petrie would ever do this. There is statistical data (Peja, J-Will, JT) that once he zeroes in on a guy, he just drafts him. Petrie does not (and should not) trust his fellow GM’s enough to trade down and hope that the guy he wants is still there, or that that the team that ultimately drafts the guy that he covets would be willing to trade him. Possible? I suppose anything is possible. Probable? Not likely.
2 – Wesley Johnson is too old. He’s 23! He would bring the average age of one of the youngest teams in the NBA down! Would you have passed on Tim Duncan? Shane Battier? Grant Hill? All of these guys still found their “upside” after leaving school. Give me a break. I’m not saying that Johnson is the guy, but he certainly should not be discounted because he is 23.
3 – Aminu is too short. I have not seen a lot of this one yet, but it’s coming once the draft measurements are in. Aminu’s length and athleticism will more than make up for the inch or two that he lacks. He is not “’tweener.” He’s a versatile player that can potentially do a lot of good things.
4 – Overstatating or understating Cousins’ mental state. Some are portraying DC as Manson, while others paint him as Mr. Rogers. He’s a young man with some risk tied to him, simple as that. And if he is available at 5, the risk/reward is greatly diminished. It would have been one thing to have chosen Cousins over Turner or Favors. It will be a completely different scenario if the choice is between him and Johnson or Aminu.
5 – My daughter’s boyfriend.
6 – The Giants (in)ability to hit.
7 – Grant.
8, 9, 10 – TBD.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 19, 2010 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 9 recs
1 Agreed
2) I don’t disagree that Johnson’s age is that big of a deal, but it is a big deal in some cases. It was for me in Al Thornton’s case a few years ago, and with Hassan Whiteside this year. The only guy who was 24 and really succeeded IMO was Dikembe Mutombo. And, as we know, Jumbo Mutombo at 5787 ft was no easy load. He was rare in his own right.
3) Agreed. It’s more about length and reasonable height than being tall. Yao Ming is 7’6 and has a 7’3 wingspan. That’s not likely going to block shots. Joe Kleine also had the same problem cuz he was 7 foot but had length of a guy 6’9 plus small hands. At least Joe!!!!! banged hands with Mark Bryant once though.
4) I agree, but I’m always wary of a guy who has a tough time accepting coaching about his weight. It’s not like Cousins played 30 minutes at UK. He played just under 24 mins a game, and that’s a bit disconcerting for me.
5) Don’t care.
6) Especially don’t care. Go A’s!
7) Peaches is eternally, uh, peachy.
8, 9 & 10: T(o) B(e)D(ogged?)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
#4, Favors average 3.5 more minutes than Cousins
Now, I don’t know if conditioning was the main reason why Cousins only averaged 24mpg. But, Favor was an elite athelete and he only played 27.5mpg. So, Cousins might have to work on his conditioning, just like Casspi. But, why did Favor only play 27.5, if it wasn’t conditioning than maybe it was a performance issue?
Either way every rookie entering into the NBA has things they need to work on, and there’s no proof that Cousins won’t work on his conditioning, any more than there’s proof that Favor won’t improve his offensive game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Foul Trouble that was the usual culprit.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Guessing? cause DX has him averaging 2.6 per game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
In a college game where you foul out with 5 fouls?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yes, I'm familiar with the college game.
and I suppose if he got 2 quick fouls early in the 1st half of every game, that might explain it. But, I doubt that it happened every game, so I’m guessing that there is more to it.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Are you looking at Favors or Cousins?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Cuz Cousins averaged 3.2 fouls.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm also sure that the blowout UK had all year didn't help raise Cousins MPG either.
Lotta reasons I would think on why Cousins played less.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm talking about Favors.
In response to Sections post, you brought up #4, that Cousins only averaged 24 mpg. I pointed out that Favors only played 3.5mpg more. So, I thought you were saying that Favors only got 3.5 mpg more because of foul trouble.
My point being that I wasn’t concerned about Cousins conditioning, because the more athletic Favors didn’t get that many more minutes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Well Calipari was. So it was a concern regardless of how you see it.
24 MPG is not enough for a player like Cousins.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Mostly (but not completely) agree about Wes Johnson
Taj Gibson’s age is one reason he went lower than he probably should have – his superduper upside potential was limited. But he’s still pretty good and played very well for the Bulls.
I think the reason Johnson’s age gives some people pause is that there’s an entire aspect of the game (namely shot creation) that he still hasn’t really mastered. If you want a home run pick, I’m just not sure Johnson is your guy. Sure, guys definitely get better from 22 on, but the cement is just a bit more dry on who and what that player is going to be.
If you’re drafting Johnson to be a saner JR Smith (athletic outside shooter): great. If you’re drafting him because you’re hoping he’s going to be a star: I’d give it another think.
On Aminu, I don’t question height so much as strength. Just because a guy is 6’8" or 6’9" doesn’t mean he can guard PFs.
On Cousins, I agree. I’d note the rumors about his attitude and move on. We don’t know the guy.
The strength is an issue I think that any team would have to measure. So I agree with that wholeheartedly.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
considering petrie's history...
of preferring size and skill over athleticsm, we’re probably going to draft monroe. :)
i agree with your assessment of johnson. greene and casspi already can do what he does.
i like aminu, but since petrie’s been the gm, the only super athletic dude he’s drafted was wallace (i may be wrong, but can’t remember any other players).
cousins = dampier. move on.
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
by kingsbruins02 on May 19, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Tariq Abdul Wahad also qualifies.
Jason Williams too, but I’m not sure he’d be considered super athletic. Certainly uber quick.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Greg Monroe
yeah – i would agree with that. in viewing the various clips of all of these top 10 type guys – the one that stands out to me is monroe. the guy seems like a clone of Odom to me the length is there, he’s young. just seems like a petrie-style player. cousins definitely does not.
.
I took some liberties with the last 3:
8. Kayte Christensen got fired by the Maloofs, and she’s out on J Street with a cardboard sign asking for money! Jim Grey is the DEVIL! No she didn’t, no she’s not, and no he isn’t. It’s business.
9. LeBron’s free agency.
10. TBD.
That’s all I got.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on May 19, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know a lot about Aminu
But I’ll agree that his height should not be the concern. When you look at lists of draft day steals, they are full of power forwards who were considered undersized.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Chris Webber was 6'9 without shoes and 7 ft wingspan
Joe Kleine was 7 foot without shoes and a 6’9 wingspan. Which would you rather have?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I rather have this guy.
His only downsides are
1) he’s older than 23
2) he looks soft
3) he’s not bio-degradable.
But other than that, excellent.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
by elfboy_ on May 19, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Stacy Augman is too old to help us.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
by jjham15 on May 19, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Kleine is a proven winner.
As is Luc Longley.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
The bust list is also paved with undersized PFs though
Marcus Fizer, Shelden Williams, Ike Diogu, Sean May
The key, of course, is athleticism and skills making up the height difference (except in the case of Chuck Hayes, which is basically just superhuman strength and heart)
I still don’t think Aminu is a PF though. He’s just not built that way, and it’s not his game.
Why do you think so positionally?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Because your five guys have to guard the other five guys
And so everyone has to match up against someone else. And I don’t think Aminu can guard what the other guys who are thinking so positionally call the Power Forward.
I know the 5 guys have to guard the other 5 guys.
Let me ask this: If you had Aminu, who DO YOU think can guard the 4’s?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
On the Kings roster in terms of guarding "4's"?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
JT, Landry
In some situations Hawes, Noc and Donte can also guard PFs, but it depends on the matchup. And Aminu might be able to guard a few 4s, but not many, I think.
But even with one SF sliding over to the 4 for a few minutes a game, that still leaves Noc, Casspi, Garcia, and Aminu competing for time at the 3.
I just don’t think it makes sense to draft someone who is primarily a 3.
I kinda feel the same way
But IM THINKING TOO MUCH ABOUT POSITIONS.
LoL
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Not trusting GM's didn't stop him from gettin screwed by the Rockets
Rockets give – Landry(2nd best player in trade), Tmac($20 million 1-legged man)
Rockets get – Kmart (best player in trade), Jordan Hill (5th overall pick), Knicks 1st rd pick
Yeah…….GP really shouldn’t trust other GM’s, Or maybe he should just stay clear of the Rockets. Trading down isn’t a bad thing just don’t be dumb, or worst……..the Knicks.
KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS
Wait...what?
I thought the trade went pretty well….
Hope
by Ultrakingsfan on May 19, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
You need to add Landry's and Martin's contracts into that equation.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
If you guys will actually use Landry in the low post you'll be pretty happy.
I thought the trade was about salary relief and clearing away the works of the “old regime” in Sacramento to make room for the new Kings. The Knicks making questionable moves isn’t the same as what the Kings did.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I completely agree with your logic on this:
The notion of trading down. There is no historical data that suggests that Petrie would ever do this. There is statistical data (Peja, J-Will, JT) that once he zeroes in on a guy, he just drafts him. Petrie does not (and should not) trust his fellow GM’s enough to trade down and hope that the guy he wants is still there, or that that the team that ultimately drafts the guy that he covets would be willing to trade him. Possible? I suppose anything is possible. Probable? Not likely.
Although we may feel some disappointment that the Kings landed on 5 instead of 3 or 4, we must remember that 5 is still a highly coveted position in the scheme of things. I agree with you that he is not going to take any chances by trading down, because that would increase the number of variable out of his control. If he is looking at one of the top 4 prospects, he would risk losing the opportunity of drafting one of those guys, should he fall to the number 5 spot. If those four guys go ahead of the Kings spot, then he has the rest of the playing field to select from, without worrying that someone else will snatch him up.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
totally agree with keeping #5 pick because...
I think Cousins will fall past Minnesota at #4 to the Kings. Last thing Minnesota needs is another big body to play with Jefferson and Love.
I am more worried about Minnesota trading out of the #4 spot. I could see them packaging the #4 and their last 1st round pick to move up to #2 for Evan Turner. The question will be is Philadelphia willing to risk losing the chance to draft Favors and be happy settling with Cousins.
The other scenario is there a team willing to trade up to #4 to take Cousins/Favors and still keeps Minnesota in position to draft the SG/SF that the team desperately needs.
8. AnotherStupidSN's jokes about your Johnson
By the way, are you saying we’re not allowed to talk about how old your Johnson is?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope Petrie can trade down,
and avoid drafting that old guy,
and the short guy,
and the attitude guy.
xD
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on May 19, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
ummmm....Petrie traded down in the last draft
and that is why Mr. Blair is playing in San Antonio instead of Sacramento!
Ummmmmmmmmm...I'm talking lottery picks, not 2nd rounders.
And there is no assurance that the Kings would have taken Blair at 31 (the Blazers didn’t).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Come on guys!
We don’t need Favors or Cousins! Haven’t you heard the news!
The Brockness Monster is diversifying his game! And the rest of the league is totally unprepared! He are about to release a true beast upon the world! And Delonté West is too afraid of him to date his mom!
I love exclamation points! Don’t you!
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 19, 2010 9:37 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 5 recs
Yes! I think! Maybe!!!!!!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To bitch or not to bitch about tanking....
…that is the question!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Waht do you all think of Greg Monroe
On the one hand, I find him really intriguing, and I don’t buy the whole ‘lack of athleticism’ thing too much because there have been plenty of quality NBA players who couldn’t jump over a moving car. My impression is he’s no less athletic than Pau Gasol, Duncan, Dirk and they turned out fine. Basketball player is a basketball player
On the other, it’s hard to gauge a guy in a princeton offense and lack of athleticism should be a consideration. Also he didn’t really ‘take over’.
Great skill set though
Maybe if we were drafting 10th.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I think he's going to be really good offensively
He can’t jump, but he’s pretty quick for his size, which helps him a lot on offense. Especially going against people his own size in the NBA I think his quickness is going to be even more apparent. He can do it all offensively.
But I also don’t think it works to add yet another soft questionable rebounder/questionable defender to a frontline that already struggles mightily on the glass and defensively.
But since soft frontlines have never bothered Petrie, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he drafted Monroe.
I don' t want him
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 19, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I couldn't get on-line in Vegas last night
on my new laptop.
I’m glad I missed the hysterics as I would indeed have joined in.
We got hosed – but we’ll see how it goes.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
After sleeping on it
Cousins could be a good fit in Sacramento. Chris Webber was seen as a headcase before he was traded to the Kings and he turned out fine. Same with Artest. This city would accept him and make him comfortable.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Ah! You have finally seen the light.
Now that you’ve seen it, there is a good chance Cousins won’t even fall to us:(
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
That would be our luck
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
But, there is always the possibility that he will fall to us as predicted - light back on.
I guess it is hard to get our hopes up, since they have been dashed so often.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I fully expect Cousins to go 2nd or 3rd.
I guarantee he will NOT be available at number 5.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
by PhutureKings on May 19, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Those that say Minnie needs a shooter have a point
I think they do as well – and they do have two quality bigs already. We’ll see what happens
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 19, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Must be a bitch without thumbs...
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on May 19, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
But neither of their quality bigs is a starting Center, right?
I didn’t watch Minny at all this year, but from what I can gather they don’t like how Love and Jefferson work together (or don’t work together), so in theory they’d be looking for someone else to start in the frontcourt next to either of those guys and trade the other one. Maybe they send out feelers prior to the draft on what the market is like for Love and for Jefferson, and if they find a deal they like then they’ll pick Cousins and send off one of the other guys for more assets (or a couple more Point Guards). If they don’t like what they’re hearing, maybe they’ll seek to address their “shooter” hole in the draft (Johnson?) and deal with their frontcourt another way.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 19, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The Case for Aminu
1) He defends and rebounds above all else
2) Kings who defend the and rebound above all else are in precious short supply
3) Draftnet.com’s comparos (Marvin Williams, really? because he played in the ACC?? ) are oft wildly incongruent to the players they become.
4) Geoff Petrie will wake up tonight and envision him as a longer Doug Christie
5) You suddenly like the idea of a longer Doug Christie…especially if you are Jackie Christie, but I digress
6) Aminu is, by all accounts, a Derrick Favors type character kid
7) He is not Cole Aldrich (although, I could make a helluva case for Joel Pryzbilla Plus, given his ability to negate the pick and roll)
8) He might end up being a better version of Luol Deng, long term
THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
John Wall will go #1 to Washington
Evan Turner will go #2 to Philadelphia
or vice versa
Now here’s the tricky part…
New Jersey has an All-Star PG already with a decent SG with potential (granted their SG position is clearly a back-up). Brooke Lopez is a beast at C, so that spot is filled up. Their biggest need is their SF and PF. So I feel they will pick up Derrick Favors or Wesly Johnson.
Minnesota is also pretty tricky. Flynn and the emergence of Brewer says that they don’t need a back court. Al Jefferson is solid at the PF and Ryan Gomes was not bad (I had him in my fantasy league), but still he is a solid back-up. So their main component they need is a C. Second choice would be a SF. Depending who is avaiIable, I see them take Wesley Johnson or DeMarcus Cousins.
Here are the possible combos coming out:
Wall Wall Wall
Turner Turner Turner
Johnson Favors Favors
Cousins Johnson Cousins
Favors or Aldrich Cousins Johnson or Aldrich
So we do have a chance for Cousins, Favors, or Johnson, but it is a very slim one. Chances are that I feel Cousins will not be on the board on our pick. Plus, whose know how them will work-out. Geoff is excellent at picking up talented value at a given spot, except for Quincy. “Michael Jordan had bad days.”
When it comes to the draft,
Michael Jordan only has bad days.
Come on Washington. Kwame Brown this draft!!!
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
What is all this talk about the emergence of Brewer?
I mus have dozed off in that game.
Dunking Dutchman
For what it's worth
in his chat, David Thorpe said that if Cousins slips to #5 … Kings still won’t take him, cause of the red flags.
There’s another different opinion.
Nothing will surprise me with the 5th pick
Johnson, Cousins, Aminu, Aldrich, the unknown entity. In Petrie I Trust.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
One of the first three
Aldrich isn’t going top ten IMO, not after workouts.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 19, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Or that kid from Estonia?
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on May 19, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
He looks ready for some hacky sack and 420...
maybe play guitar around the central square for money to buy a kebab, then, poetry slam, Estonian style!
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Wow. Anderson Varejao really gets around.
Tanking? I don't know what you're talking about, tanking. I'm just losing more efficiently.
by elfboy_ on May 19, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if Wes can play shooting guard though.
He doesn’t have the handles to create his own opportunities against an NBA defense, and shooting guards must have that ability to create their own shots to really be top tier players (semi-allstars). Atleast historically that is so; the only exception I can think of is Richard Hamilton but his all-starness was more a factor the the Pistons being the best team in basketball.
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
probably has been mentioned somewhere in the draft frenzy (but too lazy to double check)
but the Kings came dangerously close to hitting the 4% chance of the 6th pick given that both the first two teams drawn were not from the top 3. That at least makes me feel a little better about now being in the 5th spot.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
Forget Chad Ford.....
Bilas has Cousins going 4 and the Kings taking Wes 5….
I’ll go with Bilas on this.
Wes knows how to create separation in the iso, can shoot, can play without the ball…in terms of “advanced/fancy” ball handling….most of that ball handling is going to be in Reke’s hands, not Wes. When Reke runs into a wall of players that collapse on him, that’s when he needs to find Wes to pass to.
by getPGwithbounce on May 19, 2010 5:07 PM PDT reply actions
Exactly
Bilas was high on the Kings taking Reke as well.
Casspi is clearly a backup 3 and Donte is still too inconsistent (but can also play some 4). Wes has the potential to be a perfect fit for us since he can shoot well, defend, and rebound. Plus, with Beno and Reke on the floor, that’s two ball handlers who can create shots for Wes. Kings will probably address a back up pg with their 2nd pick, or maybe through fa/trade this summer.
BUT, if Cousins immaturity is something that can be outgrown and he’s there at #5, it would be hard to pass on him.
I'm getting a bit annoyed
by all that “Casspi is clearly a backup”-shit.
The guy comes in after being a bench player in Europe, has to adjust to to life in the US, to playing in a different league with different rules and style of play, and to the hype of being the first Israeli to play in the NBA, while he’s still the same age as Hawes and Greene. He had an outstanding rookie season, marred only by a slump of five weeks due conditioning and fatigue, things which are relatively easy to fix.
What justifies labeling him as no more than a backup?
Dunking Dutchman
Ignore chrysty.
It’s in your best interests. I think Omri is better suited as a 6th man, but it’s hard to say what Omri’s exact future is at the moment.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
In all fairness
I think chrysty was paraphrasing Givony, who called Omri a “clearcut backup”.
I followed the development of Draftexpress from the beginning, and it’s great, but Givony is acting a bit too much like he’s The Man.
Dunking Dutchman
I didn't agree with Givony on that statement either.
But we’ll see.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
i dunno what is going to happen with Omri however ...
we should probably take note that when Omrie was playing really well he had an unrealistically high 3 point percentage. I have a feeling he was playing a little above and beyond. However, yeah i can see the arguement that he only fell as low as he did because of fatigue … basically i can see how someone would see him as a backup who got hot for a month or two
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
5 is fine
Favors and Cousins both have big ?? , so you can get the player you want/need at 5, or trade down and take Big Man project
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