In Petrie We Trust. But Why?
by Aykis16 on May 20, 2010 12:07 PM PDT
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PrintSo the Kings fell to the 5th pick. The common refrain has been "In Petrie We Trust." So I went throughout each and everyone of the drafts where Petrie has been a GM (including the Portland era) to see how he has done, and if he could have done better. I also thought to myself that in most drafts, there's a least one or sometimes two busts in the top 5, and that there's always at least a couple or sometimes more players that aren't in the top 5 that end up being one of the top 5 best players from that draft (These "Top 5s" are listed in the order in which they were drafted to avoid some of the "You think so-and-so is better than whats-his-face?!?" arguments).
So without further ado, a full Geoff Petrie draft history, as well as some analysis. (Undrafted players were not included when mentioning notable prospects missed, as every team missed out on these players. To view the full draft board, simply click the link I provide for each draft).
Petrie's Draft History:
#25: Alaa Abdelnaby PF, Duke, Sr. - Petrie really didn't miss out on much with his first ever pick in the NBA draft. It was a very weak draft (one that saw the Kings have 4 first round picks and come away with Simmons, Mays, Causewell, and Bonner). Notable players that Petrie (and pretty much everybody) missed on include Toni Kukoc (29th), Cedric Ceballos (48th), Elden Campell (27th), and Antonio Davis (45th).
Portland did not have a 2nd round pick this year.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Derrick Coleman (1st)
- Gary Payton (2nd)
- Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (3rd)
- Kendall Gill (5th)
- Toni Kukoc (29th)
- Dennis Scott (4th)
Portland owned the #27 pick (last in the first round) and traded it with Byron Irvin and a 1992 2nd round pick (Brett Roberts) to the Sacramento Kings for Danny Ainge. Pick #27 ended up being Pete Chilcutt. Ainge was on the downside of his career, but Chilcutt never amounted to much of anything.
Portland also had the last pick in the draft at 54 and took Marcus Kennedy. He never played in the NBA. But there really aren't any notable players taken in this 2nd round other than Bobby Phills at 45.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Larry Johnson (1st)
- Kenny Anderson (2nd)
- Dikembe Mutombo (4th)
- Steve Smith (5th)
- Dale Davis (13th)
- Billy Owens (3rd)
#26: Dave Johnson, SF, Syracuse, Sr. - Again, not really a big deal to miss out on the draft when you're going this late and your team is in contention. I'm guessing Petrie went with Seniors to try to have as little a learning curve as possible. He didn't really miss out on any notable players though.
Portland also took Reggie Smith at 31, with again, nobody really of note after.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Shaquille O'Neal (1st)
- Alonzo Mourning (2nd)
- Christian Laettner (3rd)
- Jim Jackson (4th)
- Latrell Sprewell (24th)
#21 James Robinson, SG, Alabama, Jr. - This time Petrie did miss out on a few guys (although Robinson was a nice role player for a couple years). Notable misses include Chris Mills (22nd), Ervin (Not Magic) Johnson (23rd), Sam Cassell (24th), Evers Burns! Evers Burns! (just for you Section), Nick Van Exel (37th), and Bryon Russell (45th).
Portland also picked Kevin Thompson at 48, with nobody notable after.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Chris Webber (1st)
- Penny Hardaway (3rd)
- Jamal Mashburn (4th)
- Allan Houston (11th)
- Sam Cassell (24th)
- Shawn Bradley (2nd)
- Isiah Rider (5th)
1994 NBA Draft (start of Kings-era)
Now we're talking. 1994 is when Petrie first becomes GM of your Sacramento Kings and given control over a team trying to make it over the hump. Portland had been in contention for much of the time Petrie was in charge. This also marks the first time Petrie drafted in the Lottery.
#8 Brian Grant, PF, Xavier, Sr. - This was a pretty damn good pick. Only real notables taken after him were Eddie Jones (11th), Jalen Rose (13th), and perhaps Wesley Person (23rd).
#35 Michael "The Animal" Smith - This was the original Mancakes and fan favorite. And there really was only one player the Kings could have picked that might have been better and that was Voshon Lenard (46th).
#51 Lawrence Funderburke - Funderburke was another great selection considering where he was picked. He played some key minutes for the glory day Kings (as well as sop up Shaq fouls).
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Glenn Robinson (1st)
- Jason Kidd (2nd)
- Grant Hill (3rd)
- Juwan Howard (5th)
- Eddie Jones (10th)
#13 Corliss Williamson, PF, Arkansas, Jr. - Another lottery pick for Petrie and another good pick. Corliss was a tenacious player, and eventually played a key role on the Detroit Championship team. Only notables picked after him were Brent Barry (15th), Theo Ratliff (18th), Michael Finley (21), Greg Ostertag (28) and Eric Snow (43). Of those players I think the only one that really ended up better than Corliss was Finley, maybe Ratliff.
#47 Tyus Edney - Petrie really hit it off well to start in the 2nd round for the Kings. Edney had a very productive couple of years with the Kings before leaving for Europe. Only notable player after Edney was Hoiberg, and he likely wasn't better at the time.
#51 Dejan Bodiroga - Petrie's first Euro pick never decided to come play in the NBA, but he has been considered the best European player to never have played in the NBA. Good pick considering absolutely nobody of note came after it. It's a shame Bodiroga never came over.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Antonio McDyess (2nd)
- Jerry Stackhouse (3rd)
- Rasheed Wallace (4th)
- Kevin Garnett (5th)
- Michael Finley (21st)
- Joe Smith (1st)
#14 Peja Stojakovic, SF, Yugoslavia - This is the year Kings fans were clamoring for John Wallace (taken 18th). Instead he opted for little known Stojakovic, who would not play in the NBA for two more years. This draft was absolutely bonkers early on, but after Peja, there's only one player who has had a better career: Steve Nash (15th). You could make a case for Jermaine O'Neal (17th), but Peja was absolutely phenomenal prior to the back injuries that plague him now. Big Z was notable at 20, but he shouldn't be in the conversation with Peja, Nash or O'Neal.
#41 - Jason Sasser - Yeah I don't know who this is either. Petrie missed out on Malik Rose (44th), and Shandon Anderson (54th), not really big losses.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Allen Iverson (1st)
- Ray Allen (5th)
- Kobe Bryant (13th)
- Peja Stojakovic (14th)
- Steve Nash (15th)
- Marcus Camby (2) - Camby is a solid player, but in a draft that was this deep, taking him with the #2 was a big mistake.
#11 - Tariq Abdul-Wahad, SF, San Jose St., Sr. - First off, what a crappy draft after Duncan, Billups and McGrady (only All-Stars to come out). Abdul-Wahad was probably Petrie's worst lottery pick, but who did he have left to choose from? Austin Croshere (12th)? Derek Anderson (13th)? These guys were better, but they're really not making me curse the Abdul-Wahad pick. Stephen Jackson was likely the 4th best player in this draft and he was taken at 43.
#40 - Anthony Johnson - A good, solid 2nd round pick. Johnson has always been a perennial backup, but its a testament to his talent that he is still in the league now (and actually in the playoffs with the Magic). Other than Jackson, there really isn't anybody else after him I would've rather had. Maybe God Shammgod (46th), because that has to be the best name ever.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Tim Duncan (1st)
- Tracy McGrady (9th)
- Chauncey Billups (3rd)
- Stephen Jackson (43rd)
- Keith Van Horn (2nd)
- Antonio Daniels (4th)
- Tony Battie (5th)
#7 - Jason Williams, PG, Florida, Jr. - My favorite Kings draft pick of all time. Yes, the Kings could have had Pierce (10th), Nowitzki (9th), or Rashard Lewis (32nd), but Williams brought excitement back to Sacramento, and eventually netted us the guy picked #2 in this draft, Mike Bibby. I'm pretty sure the Kings don't regret taking Jason Williams one bit.
#36 - Jerome James - One of the few players in this 2nd round to make an impact (mainly AGAINST the Sacramento Kings when he was with the Sonics), but there were a couple better players picked after him: Rafer Alston (39th) and Cuttino Mobley (41st). Still, not a bad draft pick.
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Antawn Jamison (4th)
- Vince Carter (5th)
- Dirk Nowitzki (9th)
- Paul Pierce (10th)
- Rashard Lewis (32nd)
- Michael LOLowokandi (1st)
- Raef Lafrentz (3rd)
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Elton Brand (1st)
- Baron Davis (3rd)
- Rip Hamilton (7th)
- Shawn Marion (9th)
- Manu Ginobili (57th)
- Jonathan Bender (5th)
Top 5 players from this draft (in order they were drafted):
- Kenyon Martin (1st)
- Mike Miller (5th)
- Jamal Crawford (8th)
- Hedo Turkoglu (16th)
- Michael Redd (43rd)
- Stromile Swift (2nd)
- Darius Miles (3rd)
- Marcus Fizer (4th)
- Pau Gasol (3rd)
- Joe Johnson (10th)
- Zach Randolph (19th)
- Tony Parker (28th)
- Gilbert Arenas (31st)
- Kwame Brown (1st)
- Tyson Chandler (2nd)
- Eddy Curry (4th)
- Yao Ming (1st)
- Nene Hilario (7th)
- Amar'e Stoudemire (9th)
- Caron Butler (10th)
- Carlos Boozer (34th)
- Jay Williams (2nd)
- Mike Dunleavy Jr. (3rd)
- Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5th)
- You can also argue Drew Gooden (4th), but I think he's had a very solid career and in comparison to the rest of this draft, can't really call him a bust.
- LeBron James (1st)
- Carmelo Anthony (3rd)
- Chris Bosh (4th)
- Dwyane Wade (5th)
- David West (18th)
- Darko Milicic (2nd)
- Dwight Howard (1st)
- Devin Harris (5th)
- Andre Iguodala (9th)
- Al Jefferson (15th)
- Josh Smith (17th)
- Shaun Livingston (4th)
- Andrew Bogut (1st)
- Deron Williams (3rd)
- Chris Paul (4th)
- Danny Granger (17th)
- David Lee (30th) or Monta Ellis (40th). I prefer Lee.
- Marvin Williams (2nd). He's a nice player, but didn't deserve to be picked 2nd in this draft.
- LaMarcus Aldridge (2nd)
- Brandon Roy (6th)
- Rudy Gay (8th)
- Rajon Rondo (21st)
- Paul Millsap (47th)
- Too early to tell for Bargnani (1st), could still turn into very dangerous scorer.
- Adam Morrison (3rd) - Just a turd of a pick.
- Tyrus Thomas (4th) - Can still have a good career, but definitely a bust for the Bulls.
- Shelden Williams (5th)
- Kevin Durant (2nd)
- Al Horford (3rd)
- Joakim Noah (9th)
- Aaron Brooks (26th)
- Carl Landry (31st) or Marc Gasol (48th)
- Greg Oden (1st) - Really too early to tell, but so far he's been a bust, but only because of injury. The times he has been able to play he's shown a lot of promise. But thats the thing, he hasn't been able to play a lot.
- Mike Conley, Jr. (4th) - Conley is inconsistent and doesn't seem to fit well in Memphis. If he does break out into a great player, I don't think its with Memphis.
- Derrick Rose (1st)
- OJ Mayo (3rd)
- Russell Westbrook (4th)
- Eric Gordon (7th)
- Brook Lopez (10th)
- Tyreke Evans (4th)
- Stephen Curry (7th)
- Brandon Jennings (10th)
- Eric Maynor (20th)
- Darren Collison (21st)
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Comments
Wow, great research, nice to have it in one place
I actually think the Garcia pick was the worst one besides Douby. Especially considering that the Kings had drafted Martin the previous year and badly needed rebounding help, and even just considering BPA I can’t believe he passed on David Lee.
I really wanted the Kings to draft Douby, and weirdly that’s who we ended up with. The thing people tend to forget about Douby was how awesome he was in college. He was a ballsy scorer who basically was going one on five at all times and still put up big numbers. Then he wilted in the NBA. Never understood what happened to him.
But still, I think this goes to show that Petrie is right more than he’s wrong, which is all that you can expect out of the draft. At the end of the day it’s still an incredibly uncertain process.
As I recall we always tried to use Douby as a point guard.
When really he was a Jason Terry type scorer off the bench. (Or should have been). I guess being a rookie and changing coaches who are universally hailed as not very good (Mussleman/Theus) and then playing with (at the time) selfish me first guys like Bibby (who I loved prior to his “I’m the leader of this team” statement) and Artest… I can see how you could wilt.
Granted EVERYONE thought Douby would come into the League and be instant offense off the bench and he didn’t live up to it… I just think his situation at the time was more poison than anything.
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on May 20, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Douby
I agree with you- I thought if Douby would have success it would be as a scorer in the Mo Williams/Jason Terry mold, not as a point guard. Seems like there’s some debate around here as to what happened with him- victim of circumstance, couldn’t cut it, etc.
Didn’t he have a great workout here- shot the lots out? I have a vague recollection of that.
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Just didn't miss - in practice
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait a minute...
We’re not sitting here talking about a game. We talking ’bout practice….I mean, how silly is that? We talking bout practice…
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
David Lee
http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2005_nba_mock_draft.html
David Lee was projected to go mid second round
Yeah, Chad Ford had him going Second Round too
I guess it just stood out for me because he was one of the top athletes at the combine and was really good at Florida. I thought for sure Petrie would draft him.
Love Petrie and his work. He is a great GM in the draft for sure.
Wonder if Omri will get the chance to really show what he can do? Seems he is set to become a real solid to great starter. And thanks for the post.
It's like the 1998 draft was a breeding ground for crappy playoff performers
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
LOL
That’s good a observation although I think Dirk is a bit under appreciated and Pierce is a bit over appreciated. Otherwise, the rest of the list is as you say, playoff crap.
Dirk choked in 2006 and 2007
Pierce is high comedy for the knee injury in the 2008 Finals
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
Great Work Aykis!
I had started on something similar… then got to busy with jobhunting and parenting.
Good Work!
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on May 20, 2010 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
Great Post
Douby was great in College, but when he started in NBA, he didn’t become the player that was expected of him.
Great post
Its not the drafting that concerns me, but the trading (and signing of extentions). Imagine Blair instead of Brock and Sergio. Or the Noci trade. Or without the Garcia/Beno extentions. Also, I might be in the minority, but I hate the Landry/Martin trade.
Also, Martin/Garcia/Douby…. Three strait scoring gaurds, and you wonder why we were weak down low for years.
People always forget that the 31 for 38 trade happened before the draft.
The Kings likely wouldn’t have done it if they thought Blair was going to be available at 31.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Also it nearly worked out for us anyways.
I would think we would’ve gone for Blair over Brockman if Blair had fallen just one more spot.
We would have
Look at the type of player Brockman is and the type of player Blair is. Blair is a more skilled version. Just our luck that San Antonio was picking before us.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
True
Though I think Blair has been a bit overrated. I’d definitely rather have him than Brockman and have been nearly 100% wrong about his effectiveness in the NBA, but he also has only been used by Popovich in situations where he would be effective and where his lack of height/defense is not going to hurt the team. He barely played in the playoffs, and when he did he mainly got killed on the pick and roll. Hmm… Then again, maybe he really would have fit in in Sacramento.
We will never know about Blair, but I think he would have been a great fit. Oh well.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I agree
Losing out on DeJuan Blair is mostly a viewpoint stemming from hindsight. I am still shocked that Blair fell out of the first round.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's the knees.
I think everybody was being cautious about a big guy with no cartilage in his knees, and rightly so. There was still talent to be had.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on May 20, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup.
I wouldn’t be so ready to criticize until you look down the road. Also, SA is the perfect situation for Blair IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
IMO
If that trade doesn’t happen, they never make the Rockets trade, because they have a capable PF in Blair. Reke/Martin/Greene/Blair or Thompson/Hawes, with a bench of Blair or JT, Beno, Casspi, off the bench. Add in a top 5 pick, and we could be looking at playoffs.
by mike murray on May 20, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Or the Martin trade is totally different
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
How?
You think if we had a very solid/ capable PF named Blair drafted in the 2nd round, we would have traded Martin for another PF? There would be no need for Landry.
So yeah, not totally unrelated.
Martin wanted out
he just wasn’t fitting with Tyreke and it was obvious he didn’t want to be here. Other teams expressed interested and were pretty surprised we traded him for Landry when better offers had supposedly been made. He would’ve been traded, but not for Landry
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
There were trade rumors before he went to Houston
I don’t remember specifics. But I remember that after the fact there were some other rumors that some teams were caught off guard by the trade because they didn’t know he was available and that they would’ve made better offers.
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
Check the draft boards from last season before spilling Blair wouda, coulda, shoulda
Most agreed Blair would be a impact player in the NBA. The problem is most think he won’t last long in the league because has the worst set of knees most have seen entering the NBA. Whatever you pencil in with Blair be prepared to pencil him out in 3 seasons.
How does that matter...
if Landry bolts after his $3 million contract expires after the upcoming season?
Maybe you can pencil Blair out in 3 years, but instead we gave up one of the most efficient scorers in the league, took Brockman, gave Sergio half a season, and are most likely getting a season and a half Landry.
Simple mathamatics:
Martin/Blair (3+years?) > Landry (year and a half)/ S-Rod (.5 season)/ Brockman/ Cap space (which most likely will not be used on a big time free agent)
All I am saying is that trade had more of an impact then people give it credit for.
and all i am saying is that there was noooooo way we should have expect the Kings to have known Blair would have dropped that far
It’s one thing to wish they wouldn’t have made that move before the draft and say we got the wrong end of that deal, it’s completely different to actually say the Kings should have known or expected Blair to have fallen that far.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Hindsight is 20/20.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I seems to remember
that Douby scored/shot the best of any pre draft player in the King’s history of working out players. I remember that was the #1 reason why they picked him, because he had done better than any other person including even Peja.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
He was also apparently a superstar in practice
For some reason the big lights of an actual NBA game just got to him and he never played like he did.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I also seem to recall that he played brilliantly in one of his first NBA games, but never matched it again.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
shoulda read further down!
thought this was the case, but couldn’t remember…
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I'll still defend the Douby pick
Douby got put into the wrong situation. His two biggest role models were Ron Artest and Mike Bibby. I remember someone asking Douby how Bibby helped him to develop and his answer was something along the lines of “he helps me by just watching him play” which translated to “he doesn’t even know my name, I just carry his bags.” Add to that the fact that Martin was emerging as a great scorer and Cisco kinda floated between the 1, 2, and 3 spots, and there was no real place for Douby
#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"
I thought this as well
I’ve always wondered if he was put in a position to succeed…
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Late round picks being steals are debatable.
A guy like Toni Kukoc was probably helped by the fact he had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippin.
Sure
But I don’t think we can judge a player’s ability other than in the realm from which they opperated.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
True
Teams draft to what they need, and the Bulls needed a guy just like Kukoc at the time so he was able to blossom like he did. I’m just saying that if I played with MJ I would probably get a few open looks too. haha.
by BucksForever on May 20, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea me too
i wish I could shoot the 3 like Kerr. I would just stand at the line like he did and receive passes from MJ and knock it down all day long.
"......but Curry had a better TS%"
i dunno bout that
Kukoc was pretty darn good
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Great work, Aykis.
Super-thorough, just really fine work.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Agree with this. great job.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Agree with both of you
well done
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 20, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
the long and the short of it
awesome research and presentation. Rec’d
by betweentheeyes on May 20, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice post
I actually remember hating the Douby pick because Marcus Williams, who was projected as a possible lottery pick, was still on the board. Guess there was a reason for that…
You really have to give Petrie credit for getting the right guy 95% of the time over the years, especially when you see so many other GMs annually and devastate the fanbase even further. The respect for him around the league is incredible and we shouldn’t take that for granted…
Writer of "When Kingdom Come" - http://blogcritics.org/sports/feature/when-kingdom-come | Twitter: @doktakra
Excellent information, thanks Aykis!
I will take issue with the “J-Will over Pierce and Nowitzki” argument. I think that’s a mistake, no matter how you couch it.
But overall, this is a great presentation on why we have such unwaivering faith in Petrie’s drafting ability. I’d imagine if we could compare it side by side with any GM of his tenure in the history of the league, he would be in the top handful.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
Best idea ever
Let’s operate Geoff Petrie in a vacuum and the Kings will absolutely never be wrong ever again!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Great post
Thoroughly enjoyed it. No GM is perfect, but Petrie is pretty darn good at drafting (trading is a slightly different discussion).
Like you said, since 2006 it becomes more difficult. For 2008, you could add Robin Lopez and Serge Ibaka as bigs who might eventually end up better picks than JT. But I think Petrie did good here.
Dunking Dutchman
2008 I could've listed almost anyone
There have been so many solid guys so far in that draft. I don’t know who will end up being best or worst. I think most teams are going to walk away happy from that draft.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
True
You also have Courtney Lee, Mbah a Moute, Batum, Ryan Anderson, George Hill, DeAndre Jordan and of course Greene. A really deep draft.
And 2009 does not seem too bad either, despite the predictions.
I wonder if this productivity of recent drafts is largely a result of better drafting process by most teams.
Dunking Dutchman
that and maybe the fact the rules changes have changed the game a bit
athletic young guards who lack in shooting skills have been doing pretty good lately driving into the lane
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 20, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Jabari Smith
I remember when Flip Saunders picked Jabari Smith to shoot free throws in the game where Peeler elbowed Garnett in the face, and he knocked them both down. Or, am I remembering it wrong?
Great post
pookey-esque in quantity, Ziller-esque in quality.
Reke’d.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
He should have added a musical interlude.
Maybe the long version of the Doors Light My Fire.
The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.
The long version is just the real version that radio stations stupidly/retardedly edit.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Plus 1 mothefucka!
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on May 20, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Post, this is what I've always wondered
And I figured Douby was the only hiccup. You could argue Jason Williams a little now, I never realized until you pointed it out that there were a few players available that I’d say was clearly better, but I agree that Williams was important for the Kings at that time.
So overall, Petrie’s record is even better than I thought. That said…I have this bad feeling that this pick will beat Abdul-Wahad for weakest pick that was outside of Petrie’s control. No one outside of the top 3 really excite me.
Yup...
… great post.
Reading all the notable busts this makes me want to have a ‘greatest bust of all time’ discussion.
Only think i really disagree with is that only Millsap or Lowry would have been an upgrade over Douby. Isn’t Douby out of the league? So all those guys you listed would be an upgrade over him.
great walk down memory lane...
its quibbling, but damn can you imagine what we would have been back in the day if GP would have taken Nash instead of Peja, then we wouldn’t have needed to draft J-Will and could have taken Dirk or Pierce in that draft? Vlade, C-Webb, Pierce/Dirk, Nash and Christie! Not only would we have a few championship banners in the rafters, three of those guys are still dominant players.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on May 20, 2010 1:52 PM PDT reply actions
Nash spent the first few years of his career playing behind Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson
learning from the best.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
understood...
that’s why I said quibbling…the fact is no one could have predicted that bibby/j.will would have “broken down” faster than Nash did… and same can be said for Peja vs. Dirk/Pierce. Its the longevity that makes me look back longingly.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on May 20, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd be interested to understand
the worst player he ever WOULD HAVE taken, if that guy was still available. Next time someone happens to be sitting next to Petrie on a flight back from Vegas should ask him that.
I'll work on that
I was looking for him on the Tuesday Vegas trip – but the maloofs were in SAC and I guess he was in Chicago.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I’m not a Kings fan, so I was only casually aware of Petrie’s record.
Let me just say as an impartial observer: that’s some great drafting. You really can’t ask for a better job than that. Coming up with Martin, Garcia, and Wallace in the 20s? Hitting on Peja and Turkoglu?
That’s impressive stuff.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 1:55 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
What I'd like to see is
to piggyback on KeonClarks comment
maybe the guys they wanted to pick, maybe in Doubys year they had another guy they liked more but he was picked by someone else. Noone it seems is ever asked that question
It may or may not get asked
but I;m pretty sure it would never be answered
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
AYKIS!
You forgot one of the biggest top 10 busts EVER, picked by my hometown Toronto Raptors with the 8th pick of the 2004 NBA Draft…
RAFAEL ARAUJO
Only did busts in top 5.
Since Kings are drafting 5th.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I'm Ron Burgandy
With an important news update: Geoff Petrie is the best GM ever! I wanted to shout it from the top of a mountain, but all I had was this blog thread, but its true. In Ron Burgandy’s world, Geoff Petrie is the top story….
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
by Sacto_J on May 20, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I've heard that Montejunas is Spanish for "whale's vagina"
I've got squirrels in my pants!
by otis29 on May 20, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
Rec'd.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Drink it in....
It always goes down smooth…?
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Ohhhhhh
thats all I can get out
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Holy CRAP!
So, Petrie passed on Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitski, and Paul Pierce!?!?!
David Lee and Rajon Rondo are also notable… CRAP!
and we missed picking
Both Ginolbli and Parker!!!
On the Peja pick.
I thought it interesting that in ’96 Peja was one of only 6 non-Americans drafted. And one of those was Nash. Compare that to last year where there were 16.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
True
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 20, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Seniors are also underrated now as well.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
yep yep
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
yep
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
In Petrie we trust.
With the fifth pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Ali Farokhmanesh from the University of Northern Iowa.
I officially floccinaucinihilipilificate Drew Gooden, Gerald Wallace, DeJuan Blair, Scott Brooks, the Los Angeles Clippers, and the internet!
by White Brocklate on May 20, 2010 4:45 PM PDT reply actions
And if he was playing today his nick name would be
Shamwow, either that or “God Sham It”!
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
Thanks for this.
The Kings already sort of won the lottery last year by drafting Reke, a franchise changing talent.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
great analysis
I loved looking over the history here. I moved to Sac in 2002 so don’t know some of the earlier stuff from the 90’s. One comment however. I am so sick of the main man kind of stuff. We need more than Tyreke! Obviously even Lebron can’t win by himself or carry a team to a championship. Just look at the Celtics – you always need more than one star.
We know - thanks
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow..
This post kicked my ass Aykis! Well done sir. I appreciate all the time you put into this because you certainly didn’t knock this out in a few minutes during lunch. I have been trolling daily but haven’t commented in months but this surely has my attention. Draft day was on par with most holidays for me and my brother growing up given how often the Kings had high picks so I still remember each of these drafts vividly. Things were much different back in the day before the internet. All we had were a few Bee articles and maybe some Chris Monter radio interviews. The only bone I have to pick with GP’s draft history is Douby. Otherwise I think he is money. Like others have mentioned Douby might not have ever been given the best foundation to succeed considering all the coaching changes that marked his tenure here but ultimately the player bears the most blame for not finding a nitch to make it. The J-Will pick I think was the right choice and ultimately he should have been better than what he turned out to be if he had been more mature and stayed away from the hippie lettuce early in his carreer. Tariq Abdul-Wahad was also a solid pick before knee problems hindered him. And Cisco, the guy has been hurt so often it makes it hard to quibble with that pick. The contract GP gave him is a different story or maybe another post? Looking for another challenge Aykis then how about looking at Geoff’s signings..
Damn you Robert Horry!!!
Haven't read any comments yet
But Aykis this is awesome info. Great job. It would be really interesting to compare GP to other GMs to see the “mistake” level.
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night, when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?"
-Omar
I was wondering the same
One of the GM’s that was good in my mind, was Buford of San Antonio. He had some great picks outside the lottery, and in the second round. So I did a quick investigation of the last 10 years.
’99 – #57 Ginobili
’01 – #28 Parker
’04 – #28 Udrih
’05 – #28 Mahinmi – intriguing upcoming FA
’07 – #28 Splitter – Crafty big man, may come over next season
’08 – #45 George Hill
’09 – # 37 Blair.
Clearly, the Spurs are good at drafting low, and at spotting international talent.
But there are also some good guys they picked, and then traded away for little at draft day:
Salmons at #26 and Scola at #55 in ’02.
Barbosa at #28 in ’03.
And Dragic at #45 in ’08.
I didn’t write down the deals, but I wasn’t really impressed by what they got back.
Still, SA is one of the most consistent and strong franchises of the last two decades, as evidenced by the amount of picks at #28.
Dunking Dutchman
George Hill was taken at 26th overall in 2008.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Argh, you're right! #26
Dragic was #45. My bad.
Still, Hill is a solid player taken near the end of the first round.
Dunking Dutchman
Not a problem. Just thought I'd point it out.
I agree with your overall statement.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I could be wrong but I seem to recall the Suns really gave up a bit to get that draft pick to select Dragic
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 21, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, I checked
This is what I found: “San Antonio acquired the draft rights to 48th pick Malik Hairston, a second-round draft pick in 2009, and cash considerations from Phoenix in exchange for the draft rights to 45th pick Goran Dragić.”
Not spectacular, but considering that 2009 pick was Blair, it is a different story. But I guess its San Antonio’s skill to parlay something so-so (pick # 37) into the steal of the draft.
Dunking Dutchman
well even forgetting it was blair
at the time they were trading and moving only 3 spots down and got cash and another 2nd round pick the next year. I dunno, moving a mid 2nd rounder and keeping one 3 spots down AND getting another unconditional 2nd rounder AND cash isn’t that bad. They would have had to REALLY liked Dragic to not say yes to that deal.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Still, Phoenix obviously really liked Dragic, and I think they aren’t dissapointed either.
Dunking Dutchman
also have to remember
that the Spurs drafted Hill in the first round and probably were not looking for another PG at that point in the draft.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 21, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Good Post.
Just watching some video, at this time with pick 5, I wouldn’t mind if we got Cousins, Aminu or W. Johnson with our first….But then again I was impressed how Petrie turned down Rubio for Reke last year, and chose the perceived best talent available, not to fill a needed spot.
As long as he continues this formula, I’m not too concerned.
I'd be less concerned if it was a top 3 he had to play with
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 21, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey, how much of a pass does GP get for hitting a home run last season with the #4 pick?
Does this just raise his batting average or does this allow him to strike out a bit? Should he swing for the fences or just try to make the solid, safe play this time out?
Okay: baseball clichés aside:
Greg Monroe and Cole Aldrich seem like safe players: probable starters for this team. What of the Cousins, Udoh, and Whitesides who are of greater potential: higher risk but higher reward?
Just like Jerry said
Petrie is going to take the player he thinks is the best at that point.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
the question is: is best player in reference to immediate, near or longer term?
Okafor was the BPA, Dwight Howard the longer term BPA in 2004
by betweentheeyes on May 22, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I would think that if one is using the term Best Player Available,
you are basing that on demonstrated talent, not future potential. Potential is just that – something that may or may not come to fruition.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on May 22, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't have said it better myself, though I've tried. Reke'd
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I disagree
It would be a large helping of demonstrated talent, adjusted for potential. The amount of weight given to potential is based on past improvements, desire and work ethic. Desire and work ethic would be based on past improvement and the interview process.
Then you weigh the risk/reward.
Example of higher risk potential based picks: Joe Alexander, Gerald Wallace
Example of lower risk demonstrated talent based picks: Emeka Okafor, Corliss Williamson
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 22, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
"Potential will get you fired." not sure who to attribute this quote to.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Drafting solely based on past perfromance will make you mediocre
attribute this quote to me.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 22, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
They are all rookies, therefore they all have potential to be better.
Those that have demonstrated their talent have proven themselves. Everybody would like to know where a certain player is going to be in two years or five years, but that gets pretty risky to try to predict future performance. You are on much firmer ground when you based decisions on what you know to be true.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Which contradicts nothing I said
Reread my first comment. Once you establish that “firm ground” you then factor in the rest of the available information(desire to be great, work ethic, room for growth, etc) and weigh that risk/reward.
Just saying BPA = “demonstrated talent, not future potential” is missing half the process.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 22, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't agree with your first comment.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I Agree with Kfan. Best player available should be just that. Not the best player now. Not the player with the most potential. The player that has the best mix of the two.
REALLY?
Like I'm gonna change my signature
C MON!
Problem with that is how do you accurately measure potential.
You don’t.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
So you're saying draft Cousins, because he's shown us what he can do.
Don’t factor in his interviews, his attitude, his work ethic etc. and how these might effect his ability to improve, because you can’t accurately measure it?
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 22, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I would factor in his interview, but I would be very cautious as to make
any future predictions of his future performance, based on that. After all, Cousins performed very well this season. The best guess of his future performance would be based on his current performance.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Yeah, you have to factor in all that stuff
Otherwise, they’d have no combine. No interviews. No workouts. GMs would just compile the stats and go draft.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 22, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
and age
aka “room for growth”. It is one of the things to consider on the two very different players: AFA and Wes Johnson. It is one of the factors that I am not all that interested in Thabeet (he is 23, same age as Wes Johnson btw).
Also having the vision to see how a college player projects to an NBA player. One of the big factors for Tyreke is that he has “an NBA body” and overrode his lessened skills to Steph Curry. The NBA is a power game as much as a skills game.
by betweentheeyes on May 22, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Figuring out the best player available is voodoo, don'tchaknow?
And thus, unavailable to mere mortals like General Managers whose careers are predicated on finding the players who will have the greatest impact in the NBA over their careers.
I mean, there’s no way it’s possible! So if you ever hear guys like Geoff Petrie and Jerry Reynolds talk about the fact that they go into the draft trying to find the “best player” (as with Tyreke Evans last season), you’ll be able to decree in a loud voice that they are lying, as that is UNPOSSIBLE!
I've got squirrels in my pants!
And don't forget, Tyreke Evans was a "need" pick!
/revisionist history
I've got squirrels in my pants!
In Petrie We Trust. But Why?
What a GREAT! post nicely done.
Without a doubt Petrie will strike gold again this draft is very deep with a lot of young talent he’ll find a starter with the 5th pick and a talented prospect to be patient with in the second round i’m interested if Xavier Henry will slip into the 2nd round?
I loved reading this
It was really fascinating to see how Petrie has done, overall, as a GM, and I’m with you when I say I trust him.
What blows my mind is the fact that we could’ve gotten Nash and Nowitzki over Peja and J-Will. Of course, Nash took a while to acclimate in the NBA, and there’s no way of knowing if we would’ve had the same number pick had we gotten Nash, etc. And I like both Peja and J-Will, but wow. It’s crazy to see some great players who, if the draft was done over, would’ve gone WAY higher than they actually did.
"That was the most offensive thing I have seen in 20 years of teaching and that includes an elementary school production of "Hair.""
Lots of drafts are like that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Peja and Nash's careers are almost like opposites of each other.
In that Nash became a star later in his career, while Peja was a star early.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
This.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Neither of them have rings,
so they must also suck just like LeBron (note sarcasm).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
True
And obviously you can never know at the time who will work out and who won’t. I just didn’t realize our pick number in those drafts and the eventual superstars who were picked later. It’s crazy.
"That was the most offensive thing I have seen in 20 years of teaching and that includes an elementary school production of "Hair.""
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